GAZA: AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW by Laura Corridan

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All the below cites from the Hamas Charter as translated by Muhammad Maqdsi for the Islamic Assoc for Palestine, Dallas Texas 1990 so I didn’t get any of it from some pro-Israel site. I do fear that many of the Irish are getting their info from pro-Palestinian sites and not even making the least attempt to look at both sides. And there are always 2 sides to any conflict or else there would be no conflicts (s).

In the preamble of the Hamas Charter:  ‘Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.’

Here from article 7: ‘The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: ‘O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.’

Article 13 of the charter states: [Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. I take this to mean there is no point in trying to establish peace between the warring factions. How do you see it?

Article 32 particularly condemns Egypt and places it outside the ‘circle of the struggle’.  Leaving this circle is considered high treason and death to all that are placed outside the ‘struggle’.

More psychotic ramblings from the charter’s article 22:

They (Jews) stood behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions we hear about… With their money they formed secret organizations such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions  – which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies and carry out Zionist interests… They stood behind World War I, and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains… There is no war going on anywhere without them having their finger in it.’

And this is from the folks that the Palestinians elected!

Twice Hamas has violated cease-fire agreements and launched rockets over 80 percent of the Israeli population. Lets say that 220 mill is 80% of US pop how do you think Americans would feel if 1000s of bombs were raining down on 220 million US citizens from, say, Mexico or Canada? My guess? We would be pretty damned pissed off and seek revenge! I believe Ireland would feel and do the same where this happening to 80% of its citizens. Might even resent those who tell them to try a more peaceful route. No?

I agree that this is a horrible tragedy that so many residents of Gaza have been killed, I truly do, but the savages that operate Hamas are using innocent people as human shields to protect their weapons while Israel uses its iron dome system to keep its people safe. Hamas uses its population to protect its rockets by hiding them among the population of Gaza. I mean, for crying out loud, they just found 20 – 30 rockets in a freaking school bus last week!

1/6 of 1% of land in the Middle East makes up the country of Israel. It is surrounded by approximately 300 million Muslims & Arabs in the surrounding countries of the Middle East & 5 ½ mill Jews in Israel (less than the number murdered by Germany during the Holocaust of which Hamas denies happened).

Sounds more like Short Strand to me and it is. I believe Israel is the only ME country with no oil (to speak of), what a pity for them.

Israel is the only Middle Eastern country that gives women full rights to dress, drive and walk out without a male relative. As a woman, I appreciate that right and wish it for all women on the planet. Alas fundamentalist Muslims will never have that so because to them women are property. STILL to this day!!! You really need to read Muslim thoughts on female circumcision which while predominantly in Africa, is on the rise around the world, even in the US!! Frightening!

Israel has built 166 clinics it has also built 6 universities & 20 community colleges between 1979 and 2006 just for Palestinians! Any chance Hamas has done anything similar? I’m thinking no.

Israel outlaws honour killing which Hamas supports along with almost every other ME country at some level or another, so some more than others.

Israel supports 15 different religions and gives those people the right to worship within the state of Israel. Most of the other Muslim countries throw non-Muslims in prison, some for life. Many are tortured. Have you not signed petitions for the release of these women and men that are not Muslims? I know I have. Do you recall bring our girls home? I do. All these girls wanted was a decent education and for that desire they were kidnapped and we still don’t know where they are, probably dead by this point, I would guess. Of course, that is just a guess.

Gotta wonder how many Christians, Hindus & Buddhists are free to worship in Iran, Palestine and other ME countries or Gaza, for that matter? I am personally not a religious person, but this is a question which must be addressed, wouldn’t you agree?

Hamas is a puppet of Iran and that is the real war here..between Iran and the US. If you don’t see that, I worry that you are being blinded by the excellent PR campaign being waged by Hamas and Iran.

Iran knows they cannot win in an all-out war against the US so, instead, they fight using a PR battle behind Hamas, by hiding their weapons in schools, on school buses, in and near homes, etc. so that when a bomb falls on say, a rocket launcher, they can drag out the bodies of the children and others and say how horrible Israel is for murdering these innocents when, in fact, if they didn’t put bombs, launchers, etc., in and near their population, using them to shield their weapons, this wouldn’t happen. But, alas, they do and sadly, the deaths will continue until they stop. But hey, why stop? It’s working for them.

Israel notifies an area when it is going to bomb it. I have seen the flyers and know they have auto call to notify when they are going to bomb an area. Hamas does not. The reason for this recent incursion into Palestinian territory in Gaza is to bomb the tunnels that Hamas is using to get into Israel and kill Israelis. They have found and bombed 12 as of this writing. They caught Hamas members, in Israel military uniforms with handcuffs and knockout drugs in 2 of the tunnels. Whatever can they have been planning? You are a very intelligent man so I leave that to your imagination but as for me, I have a pretty good idea.

I gotta say, Jude, I am of the opinion that the anti-Jewish sentiment in Ireland, both north and south, is as appalling as it is anywhere and should be addressed. I support fully Irish republicans, always have, always will, but I simply cannot and will never agree with their stance in this situation. I have lived in Muslim countries and can speak from experience on their feelings for Israel. I fear that many people in Ireland listen only to a few sound-bites and have not been around to Muslim countries or lived outside Ireland. Has Nuala Stroud, one of the people who posted to this thread actually experienced the fundamentalist Muslim experience? I have.

We know for a fact that Gaza residents received automated phone calls late last Sunday, 7.20.14, warning them to evacuate refugee camps in the centre of the Gaza Strip. Hamas would not let them do this and forces the Palestinian population to ignore all such warnings from Israel.

The above is what Hamas is all about, though I am sure there is much more, this is just a taste. But just this taste was too long to put in FB so that’s why I am sending it to you directly.

Perhaps someday I will share with you a meeting/discussion I had with a former East German family in Turkey in 1992 while I was stationed there and tell you what the father said to me about Israel and the Jews. I was stunned that people still believed as he did in this day and age, absolutely stunned.

90 Responses to GAZA: AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW by Laura Corridan

  1. Barry Fennell July 22, 2014 at 8:12 am #

    An important contribution from Laura obviously based on experience. The difficulty in all that is going on is trying to sift through the competing narratives. My reaction is based on the shocking loss of life within Gaza and that it shouldn’t be happening. I listened to Mark Regev yesterday and can honestly say he’s a warmonger, apologist, and delusional man who has no interest in Palestinian welfare or life. There’s no doubt it’s a multilayered and difficult situation but the actions of the Israeli state in all of their offensives is inhuman and should stop – 80% of deaths are civilian.

    • Norma wilson July 23, 2014 at 1:59 pm #

      Israel in Ireland

      An open letter to the Irish Ambassador to Israel:
      Your Excellency
      As an expat Irishman I am sad I have to write this letter to you. When I left Ireland to come to Israel many years ago there was not the hatred for this country nor Jews in general that is being expressed now. The attitude of some members of the Dàil who have never visited the country and yet are willing to accept the one sided view expressed by the Palestinian supporters should be of concern to all in Ireland.
      It has been publically stated by Hamas & many other Muslim groups that what they want is a world wide caliphate devoid of Christian “Crusaders” ,Jewish “dogs” and any other religion that does not conform to their way of thinking.
      These are facts that you no doubt have heard before. In case you sir, do not fully comprehend what this means, – they want Ireland to lose its thousand year history, to lose the Christian religion of the majority of it’s habitants, both Catholic & Protestant and simply become another “Stan” ruled by Sharia law and all that it entails. There is now a current call to remove the Israeli Ambassador to Ireland with absolutely no sound of condemnation coming from the Dept. of Foreign Affairs. The sight of the Palestinian flag inside the Oireachtas even momentarily should be considered an insult to the state and the Sinn Fein member who perpetrated this act should be heavily castigated, if not expelled.There are many more examples of the rising tide of anti Israel & anti Semitism spurred on by the Moslems in Ireland with the help of their paid henchmen.
      The Jews of Ireland have always been extremely loyal to Ireland as you are no doubt well aware and have served the country with distinction.Those of us who are expats still retain our connection & affection for the”oul sod”.
      Perhaps in your capacity as Ambassador, you may lend your voice in correcting the current misconception prevailing in Ireland and I personally would happy to have your reaction.
      With respect
      I remain yours faithfully
      Simon
      Ashkelon

  2. Norma Wilson July 22, 2014 at 8:14 am #

    What a wonderful informative piece.
    This could tip the scales here in Northern Ireland. I am utterly shocked with the Irish people. They think they are gathering momentum, but as I said before, this stone is still turning????
    So I truly hope there will be a rising like no other to nip this, not in the bud. To grab it by the throat and kill it.
    Norma

  3. Gerard July 22, 2014 at 8:46 am #

    Think your argument does not stand up as you attempt to justify the slaughter of many civilians, a lot of them children.
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/the-world-cannot-stand-idly-by-as-this-slow-terrible-death-in-gaza-continues-30448624.html

    • Laura July 22, 2014 at 11:29 am #

      Gerard, I ‘justify’ nothing. I am horrified and saddened by all the deaths. It breaks my heart just as it breaks my heart to see Palestinian women fighting for fresh drinking water. Did you see that news clip? Did you see the guy (only guessing he was Hamas) emptying fresh water from a bucket on the women? Emptying it instead of giving it to these desperate women. I watched the clip.

      I just know that many, if not most, of these deaths could be halted with the ending of the 1000s of bombs being launched into Israel by Hamas, 100s on a daily basis. With the ending of all the tunnel building that allows members of Hamas to sneak into Israel and capture and/or kill Israelis. And more than that, with the ending of Hamas using the Palestinians as human shields for their launchers by hiding them amongst the population of Gaza.

      Israel has a right to exist too. And I think we can all agree they won’t be going anywhere anytime soon. You really shouldn’t blame only Israel. There is enough blame to go around to all, including the Palestinians.

      • Ruaidri Ua Conchobai July 26, 2014 at 6:26 pm #

        Laura,
        Pro-Israeli folk must cease mis-describing this Zionist land-grab programme as a religious conflict as it confuses and provokes the ignorant morons who attack ordinary Jewish people in other countries.

        Israel stokes this conflict by its illegal occupation and endless illegal building of what it likes to describe as “Jewish settlements” – do you really expect the Palestinians to just sit-back and allow Israel to complete its programme of stealing the whole of Palestine?

        It’s offensive to Judaism to conflate it with the Zionism of the Israeli state. A great many Jewish people of differing nationalities oppose Israel’s illegal occupation and blockade of Palestinian land.

        Norma,
        I’m still waiting on you surprising me with something unpredictable… do please try 🙂

        • Laura July 27, 2014 at 12:46 am #

          Really? I would personally think the Palestinians should be far more upset with the Muslim countries that have incorporated far, far more of the original Palestine than Israel ever did or has. As I have said in numerous posts, Israel makes of 1/6 of 1 pct in the ME and that is not even close to a program of stealing the whole of Palestine. How about getting some land back from say, Jordan or Syria or any number of other countries for the creation of a Palestinian state? But noooooooooooooo…its gotta be the small part that makes up the country of Israel.

  4. Cal July 22, 2014 at 9:06 am #

    The Hamas charter often gets airtime when Israel feels the need to defend bombing hospitals.

    The Charter is an historic relic, akin in some respects to the language of the Torah/Old Testament. A relic that has allowed Israel to point blank refuse to talk to the elected representatives of Gaza. If there’s one or two things I’ve learnt from Ireland’s peace process it is to respect all electoral mandates and not to place preconditions on talks.

    At moment Israel is establishing what they call ‘facts on the ground’ prior to entering peace talks. The facts on the ground are settlements build on Palestinian soil and are illegal. Stop the settlements, stop the preconditions and talk now, Israel.

    • Laura July 22, 2014 at 11:13 am #

      The Hamas charter is an historic relic? Perhaps, although not nearly as ‘ancient’ as the Torah and the Bible, as you say, yet they are still being used, so it matters not how ancient the charter is. Israel has not refused to talk to the Palestinians and it is Hamas who has failed to keep up their end of two (count them two) ceasefires in which Israel was part of the talks, along with, I believe Egypt. I would need to confirm the bit about Egypt but I do know Egypt also blockades supplies getting into Gaza.

      Lets get one thing completely straight here. Israel is bombing the sites of launch pads for rockets shot into Israel by the hundreds if not thousands daily.

      It is Hamas, backed by Iran that places them in hospitals, schools, etc. Its all about winning the PR campaign. Iran, using Hamas knows it cannot win an all out war with the US but it sure as hell can win the PR one and they appear to be doing so with responses such as yours.

      • Cal July 22, 2014 at 12:53 pm #

        It matters not which is the older, Laura. You’ve quoted the Hamas Charter which indeed contains very distasteful rhetoric. My point is that so does the Torah – it calls for the extermination or expulsion of all non Jews from Israel/Palestine. Will Israel renounce these teachings, as they demand Hamas renounce their Charter ?

        • Laura July 22, 2014 at 4:35 pm #

          Perhaps they will, perhaps they won’t. I know the bible is the same with some pretty awful things in it about selling daughters, etc. because that was the norm back in the day when the books in the bible were written and Hamas has not been around that long.

          The main thing is the charter is what Iran through its puppet Hamas is using to keep the Palestinians in line and that is simply a fact, as I see it, of course..(s) All I wish is that those who support the Palestinians, such as many of the Irish Republicans, would at least consider both sides of the coin. I have said many times how horrific I find the deaths of all the Palestinians just as I do the deaths of the Israelis, but where you and I differ is that I don’t think those deaths can be laid ONLY at the feet of Israel and from your posts, you seem to believe that.

          Lets face it…it takes two to tango!!

          • Cal July 22, 2014 at 8:40 pm #

            It does take two to tango. It takes one military power to carryout a massacre, however.

            You’ve spoken at length now about the violence being a larger part of the Iran and US struggle for power. That may be true, it still doesn’t justify mass murder.

            Israel is deliberately targeting civilians to quash Palestine. I say deliberately because the instances, the many instances I’ve seen documented can’t be explained away by the fog of war. Only cold, calculated and deliberate murder of civilians.

            I think that is wrong and I believe the people responsible should be before an international court.

  5. neill July 22, 2014 at 9:13 am #

    Good contribution Laura

  6. Breandan July 22, 2014 at 9:21 am #

    “Anti-Jewish sentiment” ? Yet agiain, that old red herring aimed at intimidating people from stating their viewpoint. Being anti-state of Israel is neither anti-Israeli nor anti-Jewish. There is massive crticism among the Jews of the world and Israel in relation to Israeli state policies. Otherwise I have to agree with Cal on the Charter you quote from. There is NO EXCUSE for the slaughter of civilians. The Israelis are now bombing hospitals. That is a war crime. They are deliberately targetting civilians. That is a war crime. How can anyone justify that?

    • Norma Wilson July 22, 2014 at 10:38 am #

      Hi Brendan,

      Let’s hear it from you, what should Israel do?

      Come on get real, if your family was being bombed everyday, by Hamas, what would you do.
      If I was a Palestinian mother over there receiving phone calls, leaflets, and warnings. I would heed them, the Israelis are decent people who just want left in peace.
      Those terrorists are going to be coming after your children, or grandchildren, in the not to distant future.
      Waken up these fother muckers are radical Islamists, who are fanatics.
      If I was Israel, and the end was nigh, I would hit the button, if you want to wipe me out, you can all come along for the ride.
      Seriously, it is written in the scriptures, God will come back for his chosen people.
      Moses, Abraham, Isaiah, David, it has been spoken by the The Lord our God.
      Norma

      • Caroline July 22, 2014 at 12:25 pm #

        Let’s hear it from you, what should Israel do?

        Well they shouldn’t be murdering innocent men, women and children for a start.

      • RJC July 22, 2014 at 2:07 pm #

        “Seriously, it is written in the scriptures, God will come back for his chosen people.
        Moses, Abraham, Isaiah, David, it has been spoken by the The Lord our God.”

        Words fail me Norma.

  7. Dickens July 22, 2014 at 10:00 am #

    Jude,
    Its vital to always look at the main stances in any conflict in order to come to a reasoned position but this is pure Israeli propaganda. Some of this is cut & paste from official Israeli press releases. Corridan on Israeli payroll? Her “fear” that Irish people are getting their info from pro-Palestinian websites is typical Israeli patronising bullshit.

    There will never be peace in the Middle East as long as Israel is backed by the U.S which gives Israel massive financial & military support, & Europe Union which for some reason (guilt/fear or under control of zionist infiltrators where it matters or obeying US instruction?) gives Israel favourable trading terms.

    One wonders what Jewish adults in Nazi occupied ghettoes would think of todays Israel, the most heavily armed & only Nuclear power in the region with Iron Dome defences etc.etc., fearing (propaganda again) what amounts in reality to hi-tech stone throwing. The “kill rate ” differential between Israel & Palestinians on every occasion going back decades speaks volumes.

    Israel is the US aircraft carrier in the region & has been allowed by US to land grab, assasinate at will etc, etc,.etc. (for those seeking rock solid info check out intellectuals like Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein (incidentally both are jewish) &/or go to web sites like Information Clearing House, Media Lens, Znet (great writers like Ed Herman) which then lead us down the rabbit hole. The rights or wrongs of Hamas are a side issue in this instance as the Jewish adults in the ghettoes mentioned above would have presumably felt about Nazism as many Palestinians feel about Zionism.

    I would suggest that Corridan with her anecdotes (ah, now I know whats happening, Corridan has enlighented me with her “research”) check out the above for starters & give us her view. Perhaps she could sit in her abode & think of receiving a helpful telephone call advising her she has five minutes to get herself & anything she holds dear (old people, sick peope, people with disabilities, treasured possessions etc.etc. as far away as possible (there is of course no safe areas in an open prison). Stopwatch on Corridan-as long as you are no longer stunned after listening to that terrible former East German individual. Accordiing to a geezer I was chatting to in the pub they are the worst of all-thankfully they are no longer allowed.

    Back to Earth after digesting the mind of Corridan.

    Keep up the great work Jude. Great stuff also from Perkin Warbeck & PaddyKool.

    May the streams of consciousness, truth & experienced wisdom long continue to flow.

    GRMA

    D

    • Laura July 22, 2014 at 11:47 am #

      Not a single drop of what I posted was cut and pasted from a single ‘official Israeli press release’. I don’t visit websites where those can be found. Never have and most likely never wilI, but I did visit the ninapaley website briefly to get the attached video just did not read anything else on her site so couldn’t say whether or not her site was completely pro-Israel or something else.

      As for your comments about ‘land grabbing by Israel’, 1/6 of 1pct of the land in the ME makes up Israel. I’ve said a lot of this previously but apparently I have to continue making that point to the tone deaf. 1/6 of 1 PCT!

      We know there are countries in the ME that have come into being since England was in charge there creating those statelets which was in the 20th century. If the peoples of the ME wanted real peace, why wouldn’t they consider giving some of their stolen lands to the Palestinians? Gotta wonder. So please, talk about being back on earth after digesting the thoughts of anyone.

      In any case, I recommend you watch the following about land grabs. Its an easy watch which is something it appears you might need. If I didn’t get all the address you can see it at her site.

      http://blog.ninapaley.com/2012/10/01/this-land-is-mine/

      • Dickens July 22, 2014 at 5:16 pm #

        Watched the cartoon & read the accompanying explanation which is full of “I think”, “apparently”, “I’m guessing etc.etc. Why do you think I need to watch propaganda with the underlying theme of every ones as bad as each other? The non Israeli side is depicted with modern missiles (nuclear?). No facts.

        RE my suggsted reading for you; might I further suggest you go to

        https://secure.avaaz.org/en/israel_palestine_this_is_how_it_ends_rb/?bMzMyfb&v=42735

        I’m sure you are still putting together your musings on the websites etc. i mentioned above.

        For the already enlightened please sign the petition at the avaaz website which has been signed by over a milllion people world wide & increasing by the minute. it’ll only take a few minutes of your time.

        GRMA

        D

    • Norma Wilson July 22, 2014 at 11:51 am #

      Dickens

      Just two points, just stone throwing, I think you should have went to Spec Savers!
      Second point, yes America should keep her nose out, the dirty tricks that went on here, because of her.
      I suppose you will be telling me next that three quarters of the wars at present, are Israel’s fault. Wise up, waken up to this evil Islamist force.
      Norma

      • Dickens July 22, 2014 at 5:26 pm #

        Just keep supposing. I have no interest in your “comments”.

    • William Fay July 22, 2014 at 7:56 pm #

      Dickens, valid points well made, but the reality is there will never be peace in the Middle East as long as Israel exists, and that is exactly the problem. The fragility of the states in the area and their inability to govern themselves as modern societies will forever produce violence directed at Israel who understandably will not accept it.

      • Dickens July 23, 2014 at 11:23 pm #

        William,

        Your response reeks of old colonialism/zionism//imperialism/orientialism/Hegemony-“Israel are the victims surrounded by aggressive neighbours”.

        Demonization of the “other”?

        Might I humbly suggest you check out Edward Said’s books- 1. The End of the Peace Process (Oslo) 2000, & 2. Covering Islam; How the media & The Experts determnine how we see the rest of the World 1997.

        You will find compelling evidence that Palestinan were accepting peace proposals well short of their aspirations but were shafted by the West (U.S etc.).

        Human rights shoold be for all. As per Avaaz website short term ceasefires will not bring a long term solution to the Palestinians/Israelis. A two state solution is widely accepted as the only show in town but is blocked by the military powers of US/Israel. Imprisoning the Palestinian people in the Gaza strip & psychologically demeaning them on a daily basis belongs to the nineteenth century.

        Regards

        D

        • William Fay July 24, 2014 at 9:04 pm #

          Sorry Dickens old boy, but you really have lost me here. Are you suggesting that Israel is in happy, happy land and can live peacefully for evermore with their nice neighbours.

          • Dickens July 25, 2014 at 3:23 pm #

            Mr Fay,

            You trying to patronise me? Or perhaps you are a English character actor stuck in character? Or perhaps you stayed too long in the sun in Tel Aviv?

            Heres some happy happy Israeli’s (scroll down to second clip)-

            http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

            Whats your thoughts on that?

            Anyways your narrative ( if only Israel had peace partners) has passed its sell by date & the evidence is all around the Internet. Check out Noam Chomsky, Illan Pappe, Norman Finkelstein (all Jewish & all under constant abusive attack from Israel & its supporters) on Znet for examples. I could name many more who openly criticize the behaviour of Israeli Govts going back decades.

            Check here for Norman Finkelstein on the current situation in Gaza & how it started-

            http://zcomm.org/zvideo/did-israel-spark-violence-to-prevent-a-new-peace-offensive/

            Norman Finkelstein has suffered for his honesty but is clearly more than a match for the thuggery of the Israeli state. As can be seen this week the world is disgusted by the war crimes of Israel & won’t tolerate it any more. Even the British Bullshit Corporation is subtly changing its biased postiion.

            Check here on BSNews for the 1300 plus academics from around the world including 66 from Israel who have signed a statement utterly deploring the aggressive military strategy being deployed by Israleli Govt-

            http://haimbresheeth.com/gaza/an-open-letter-to-israel-academics-july-13th-2014/statement-by-israeli-academics-july-2014/

            Check here for The Zionist Story from a former Israeli Reservist amongst others-

            http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33128.htm

            Here is the first three paragraphs in an article on Information Clearing House website re Israeli thinking re land-

            “If I was an Arab leader I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal, we took their land. It is true that God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we come and we have stolen their country. Why should they accept that?”

            That statement—which would certainly outrage the current government of Israel and most of its supporters–was made by David Ben Gurion (1886-1973), revered as the father of the State of Israel.

            From the very beginning that issue has been at the heart of hostilities between Israel and the Arabs, particularly, of course, the Palestinians—including the tragedy being played out in Gaza today.

            Info Clearing House website here-

            http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

            Your narrative of Israel having no peace partners is straight from the mouth of Netanyahu et al & may have worked years ago but Israel for a Hi-tech country seems to think the rest of the world is not watching & seeing.

            I’m doing my best for you as you are clearly out of touch Or perhaps having a few too many Sauvignon Blancs or whatever. I can continue to help you but you must agree to check out the above along with (the now departed) Edward Saids’ books mentioned above.

            Regards/Grma

            D

          • William Fay July 25, 2014 at 8:25 pm #

            Quite frankly Dickens I do not require a lecture and scolding from you, I certainly don’t need prompts on what to read. One small point, why do you think no other neighbouring country cares what happens to the Palestinians, especially the Egyptians?

          • Dickens July 25, 2014 at 4:15 pm #

            Apologies to all re the first link re Happy Happy Israelis in response to Mr Fay’s comments on 24/07/14 at 21.04.

            I inserted the link for the Information Clearing House web site rather then for the actual clip which is titled “Lie Down & Die Quietly”.

            Check here hopefully & scroll to second clip & after watching please read the first few comments-

            http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39220.htm

            For reference purposes The Ben Gurion quote is lifted from an article titled “Ok, So what would you do about Hamas”? on Info Clearing House site by Barry Lando-

            http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39212.htm

            Grma/Regards

            D

    • John July 24, 2014 at 4:01 am #

      @ Dickens – re: your post 22nd July @ 10:00am

      An excellent response, and the information, comments etc contained therein put forward my thoughts on the hell that is happening in Gaza perfectly. It is also high time Israel lost its ‘victim mentality’ – which it has played upon for decades.
      Ms.Corridan may have her own (somewhat skewed in my opinion) views – but the facts speak for themselves – 700 Palestinian civilians – children, disabled, entire families dead. 2,500 injured – many of which face possible death because (as a Norwegian Doctor pointed out on Channel 4 News last night) – the hospitals (those unbombed) are DESPERATE for life-saving medical supplies etc – which the Israeli Government – specifically Netanyahu will not allow through its blockades.
      For Ms.Corridan to point the finger of blame squarely and fully at Hamas for this ongoing Israeli War Crime does her no justice whatsoever – and also makes her complicit in it.
      A last point – 700 Palestinian civilian deaths. – 2 Israeli. – Gaza (what is left of it) doesn’t have a multi-billion dollar ‘Dome’ to protect its citizens. The fear on one side far outweighs the fear on the other.

      (By the way, i signed the Avaas Petition a few days ago)

      • Dickens July 24, 2014 at 11:38 am #

        John,

        Thanks for your comments.

        The Irish Government & the other cowardly European powers who abstained on the resolution of investigating human rights violations (although thankfully progressive governments across the world ensured it got through) will be judged harshly by history.

        The excuse put out was that it didn’t cover Hamas’s violations; thats like refusing to investigate Nazi violations because the investigation didn’t cover the Polish who were invaded, & no, I’m not making a direct comparison between Nazi Germany & Israel- there are just certain similarities in how they treat the “other”, i.e land grabbing, ghettoization, militarisation of their society, propaganda that blames “the other” etc. etc.

        As for Ms Corridan, her silence is deafening re my request for her views on the rock solid websites I mentioned.

        But its very easy to take a view if one is indoctrinated from an early age by mainstream media (MSM) outlets such as the British Bullshit Corporation &/or ones family, friends, churches (Pastors?) etc. Its extremely difficult to alter “facts” in ones mind. Ms Corridan deserves our support in as much as I don’t expect anyone to take my word for anything-I just suggest she checks out a alternative narrative (has to be from rock solid sources) & find whats down the rabbit hole-The World Turned Upside Down or the shock of finding that ones core beliefs aren’t solid can be traumatc.

        Perhaps she is blogging elsewhere that she was stunned by responses on Judes Blog?

        The trick is to unlearn most of what we learn at school (think Jude had a blog earlier which was on the theme of un-learning) & begin the journey of independent thinking based on rock solid sources (Noam Chomsky for example is able to swat off his many critics/aggressive interviewers such as BBC’s Andrew Marr-check out the 1996 debate ( between Chomsky & Marr on You Tube-if link doesn’t work go to You Tube & type Chomsky Debate-

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-34w0OUIOyw

        Signing the petition bypasses morally corrupt governments, the MSM & transnational Corporations who profit from illegal Israeli actions, & also creates solidarity amongst peoples of the world who want fairness, equality & honesty across borders/frontiers both mental & physical.

        Listened to Israeli ambassador to Ireland being asked by Ivan Yates on Newstalk this morning about Israeli war crimes-total denial. Fair play Mr Yates. Mr Yates could also have asked him has Israel broken international law sine its “formation” but again fair play Mr Yates (told the ambassador that he says it as he sees it; priceless)-doubt if Royal Television Eireann (sic) would have asked anything similar.

        Sorry for long response but one has to anticipate rebuttals from the Israeli throll brigade.

        GRMA/Regards

        D

        • Laura July 27, 2014 at 12:50 pm #

          A quick heads up to Dickens: I have never, ever even visited another blog nor have I ever blogged anywhere although I was, for many years, a contributor to the Delphi Forums.

          Judes was the first and only and it was at his suggestion that I provide my thoughts on why I disagree with the Irish Republicans stance on Palestine. Always two sides to any conflict, eh and what Jude posted for me was mine.

          I have found in reading the many replies, albeit not all, that a lot of the websites posted by those who support the Palestinian position are seemingly from very pro- Palestine sites which post the standard ‘talking points’. I have tried to avoid using pro-Israeli sites as best as I could and have chosen mainly to use my personal experiences and that one site for the video (NinaPaley.com) which I found cleverly done.

          Did you notice that Hamas has broken, yet again today, another cease-fire? Although there seems to be some movement to re-establish said ceasefire which is a good thing and I hope it stands to give the Palestinians a chance to get in some supplies, water, etc., that is, if Hamas will allow it.

          • Dickens July 28, 2014 at 8:08 pm #

            Laura,

            Thanks for your response.

            What would you regard as Pro-Israeli web sites? I would call the Mainstream Media Pro-Israel.

            Would you care to watch “The Zionist Story” film & give us your thoughts? Link is in my posting of 25/07/14 at 15:23.

            Try checking out Coldtype website & read the articles by David’s Cromwell & Edwards & the two article immmediately after theirs by Susan Abulhawa & Jason Farbman-http://issuu.com/coldtype/docs/0714.coldtype.

            Blockade for several years with continuing illegal behaviour from Israel throughout that time-Ilegal seperation wall, illegal blockade, iIllegal “settlements”, constant destruction of Palestinian infrastructure, ninety per cent of water in Gaza undrinkable etc. etc. No country on earth would put up with such behaviour. Hamas whether anyone likes it or not are democratically elected by the people of Gaza & when a Unity Govt (Hamsa/Fatah) is proposed Israeli goes into attack mode.

            Haven’t seen any evidence that Hamas were responsible for the terrible murders of the three Israeli students but I will continue to check. There is talk of Israeli Police stating that Hamas were not responsible; but only talk so far.

            You have mentioned Israel as being only 1/6 of 1% of ME (The poor little Nuclear power with only 200+ Nukes) but watching The Zionist Story puts this propaganda in its place.

            Slightly off topic but there are striking similarities with this map & the maps shown in “The Zionist Story”.- http://www.alternet.org/immigration/map-destruction-how-europeans-stole-native-land?akid=9709.293530.DieBL2&rd=1&src=newsletter748607&t=18

            Grma/Regards

            D

  8. Micheal July 22, 2014 at 10:42 am #

    Personally Laura, your comments still don’t deter me from support the Palestinian side due to the fact the Hamas rockets do-not carry warheads and do not explode and so are ‘dummy’ bombs where as the shell which was fired at four CHILDREN playing an innocent game of football on the beach exploded killing all four of them. Israeli snipers using the old ‘lure’ tactic shooting some Palestinian guy and letting him lie there trying to lure more Palestinians and aid workers to rescue him only to find these people weren’t stupid was again a waiting slaughter, the aid workers didn’t fall for it and so the snipers finished the poor man off. The air raids now are targeting hospitals and attacking ambulances carrying casualties to hospitals. Under law anything like an ambulance is not a legitimate target, maybe you didn’t catch that piece in law.

    Kids are being killed everyday by Israel in their hundreds and you have the audacity to take Israels side who have had, wait for it, five soldiers killed. Soldiers by definition take it upon themselves that they may die in a war zone even if it is an unlawful one.

    If I were British, American, Chinese, Hindu, Protestant, Jewish or any other colour or creed I would still stand by Palestine and the Palestinians due to the massive force brought upon them and the utter ignorance of the so called one and only ‘land of the free’ the ‘land of hope and glory’ America. They’ll go in and wipe out Afghans and Iraqis but God forbid anyone should go against its good ol friend Israel.

    I make no apologies for standing by Palestine in this matter and I never will. After seeing the utter disregard for innocent life and the massive bombardment of civilian areas, the so called precision weapons decimating entire neighbourhoods and the use of, banned by international law, white phosphorous bombs. I can only see you are with Israel on this because they are wiping out an entire race based on an ancient manuscript while everyone but the little people stand by and let it happen.

    There is no excuse for targeting children, there is no excuse for targeting civilians and there is certainly no excuse for targeting the press. Numerous attempts have been made to silence those journalists who have sought to bring to light the Palestinian point of view and thanks to social media the Palestinian side is being brought to the world. I’m almost certain if social media was as primitive and useless as it was 20 years ago the Palestinian view point would still be kept out of the way and in the dark due to journalists and reporters being physically removed for showing the truth and CNN and the BBC should be ashamed for headlines such as “13 Israeli soldier killed in fighting” when the same night 12 children and hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilians were killed in the same fighting. But that’s alright isn’t it because an ancient manuscript paints Hamas as ‘bad’.

    Israel has a lot to answer for. Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu should be taken to the Hague along with his generals and imprisoned for evermore because after all the innocent civilians and innocent young lives these people have sanctioned killing on, they deserve nothing better.

    • Micheal July 22, 2014 at 10:54 am #

      Norma, no offence, but you sicken me, you are openly supporting the killing of children and innocent Palestinians….shame of you, it seems you and Laura and shifting with the big power bases like America. It seems you are in cahoots with those in the Twaddell camp who like to stand with their Israeli flag in hand talking about “civil rights”. I see now you and they are no more interested in civil right more so seeking the demise of every other race in the world who refuses to lie down and die. Shame on you!

      • Norma Wilson July 22, 2014 at 11:54 am #

        Dickens

        Just two points, just stone throwing, I think you should have went to Spec Savers!
        Second point, yes America should keep her nose out, the dirty tricks that went on here, because of her.
        I suppose you will be telling me next that three quarters of the wars at present, are Israel’s fault. Wise up, waken up to this evil Islamist force.
        Norma

      • Norma Wilson July 22, 2014 at 12:09 pm #

        Michael Darlin, that is in oirish

        Ah yes, you know me so well, if you did you would know I am as anti American as you are Israel?????
        You know the old saying you cannot educate pork.
        You Michael Darlin, it’s all down to VOTE in AMERICA, just like the Oirish Sinn Fein vote, remember back in the day. When the good old Yankees brought GA IN FROM THE COLD.
        Well the same thing applies here, you will be telling me next its squibs there using, and my eyes need testing.
        Just for the record, I am not lead by the nose, I have my own opinion on this war.
        I find all Catholics easy to round up, pretty much like sheep, tell them to ignore the Judge or law courts, or go on the street, ( pretty much like Palestinians) and they will do it.
        I wonder how many Alliance offices is in Catholic areas. o zero nil none????
        Ah well, now we have the Oirish Arabs to be watching out for.????
        Happy Ramadan!

        • RJC July 22, 2014 at 3:53 pm #

          ‘I find all Catholics easy to round up, pretty much like sheep, tell them to ignore the Judge or law courts, or go on the street (pretty much like Palestinians) and they will do it.’

          er, I think this might be enormously offensive? Racist too. Hugely disappointing commentary from you here, Norma. ‘Wise the bap’ as they say.

      • Norma Wilson July 22, 2014 at 12:13 pm #

        I don’t know where Twaddell camp is.
        I do not wish to see any one getting hurt.
        But if I had you in front of me this minute, I would grab your two dingle berries, and make you scream like a little pig, until you said you were sorry!
        Norma

        • Jude Collins July 22, 2014 at 3:45 pm #

          Norma – I think we need to draw the line somewhere, and I think you just crossed it with ‘dingle-barries’ remark. No more of that, please. Stay civil. If you think others are excessively abusive, let me know.

        • Point is July 22, 2014 at 5:14 pm #

          Norma,

          My knees are weak at the thought!

          Have you tried this tactic before on some male with whom you have had a disagreement?

          Everyone can appreciate when someone else is angry but there is a tactic which you may find useful.

          KWrite out or type what you intend to say without sending it. Go have a cup of tea (not alcohol)!

          Come back after 10 or 15 minutes and read your draft. I can guarantee you will amend it in some way. If at that point you are happy that it makes sense and isn’t personally abusive then go ahead and send it off.

          Things said in the heat of the moment are often to be regretted!

    • William Fay July 22, 2014 at 12:05 pm #

      Hi Michael, usual fare from yourself, riddled with inaccuracies in order to invoke sympathy. Hamas, like their allies the IRA, are out, and out terrorists who will use any tactics to achieve their aims.
      You obviously have very little knowledge of the Qassam rockets used by Hamas, they have other commercially supplied weapons but these home made rockets are the worst. Just because a rocket hasn’t a warhead fitted does not necessarily mean that they will not cause damage. These rockets are packed with TNT and can land anywhere, but it’s not poor little Hamas’ fault is it, it’s everyone else..
      Are you aware that Hamas have regularly executed their own civilians who have objected to the use of their property for the firing of rockets. You cannot continue to peddle the theory that because Israel has superior firepower it should do nothing. It has a duty of care to its population and has every right to respond. The reality is, as long as Hamas exist, there will be problems, so the sooner Israel wipe them out, we can go back to peace.

      As a foot note, the holocaust did happen, even though you may be one of those who deny it, but I can assure you it won’t happen again.

      • RJC July 22, 2014 at 4:25 pm #

        “As a foot note, the holocaust did happen, even though you may be one of those who deny it, but I can assure you it won’t happen again.”

        An unbelievable and grossly offensive comment. Shame on you.

        • William Fay July 22, 2014 at 7:47 pm #

          Not sure what you mean, the Jews have been slaughtered for centuries, and they will not let it happen again, your point is exactly what RJC?

          • RJC July 23, 2014 at 11:20 am #

            My point was that you insinuated Micheal may be guilty of Holocaust denial. The insinuation lay in the words “even though you may be one of those who deny it”.

            To accuse someone of Holocaust denial because they disagree with Israeli foreign policy is absolutely vile.

      • Wolfe tone July 22, 2014 at 7:03 pm #

        Wow William, for a so called researcher you seem to have an authority on everything. You even know about rockets and all….be careful now or mi5 could be arresting ye.
        Perhaps if Iran or some other non Christian country had armed Hamas with the weaponry that the Israelis have at their disposal, then the fireworks they are keeping Israelis awake with, would be irrelevant?

        Norma,
        Your mask slips now and again but it would be quicker for everybody if you just said, I like all Catholics,I even married one. He isn’t political and you just wished all Catholics were not political. Then everyone would be happy.
        You could even tell those pesky Palestinians to lie down too while you are at it.
        They say you find your own level in life and I suppose spending time in South Africa and the north and championing the cause of zionists, it seems Norma you have found your level. Wake up, you are a bigot. Pastor would be proud.

        • William Fay July 22, 2014 at 7:49 pm #

          Yes Wolfe spent a little time lecturing in Tel Aviv and have a very good understanding of the issues there, thankyou.

        • Norma Wilson July 22, 2014 at 10:23 pm #

          Then Wolfe Tone

          Some times, people cannot handle frankness, honesty, and most of all the truth. I shall wear my bigotry as you put it with pride.

          Today in this world I find honesty and truthfulness dirty words.

          Norma

  9. neill July 22, 2014 at 10:57 am #

    Israel has a lot to answer for. Benjamin “Bibi” Netanyahu should be taken to the Hague along with his generals and imprisoned for evermore because after all the innocent civilians and innocent young lives these people have sanctioned killing on, they deserve nothing better

    That’s rank hypocrisy coming from an Irish Republican….

    • Micheal July 22, 2014 at 1:49 pm #

      Hmmmmm bloody Sunday

      • Norma Wilson July 22, 2014 at 4:05 pm #

        Hmmm……….Michael

        PORTADOWN MASSACRE !!!!

        we could keep this up for another millennium, where will it get us.

        You are quite opinionated regarding me, my auld fella, laughed at your comments, he has had an enlightenment, regarding Jewish people.
        His indoctrination, by my in-laws was utterly unbelievable.
        Ignorance, breeds pure evil, please do read up on the above, maybe you did not know about it.
        Here we are four centuries later, and now we are attacking Synagogue, in stark contrast to the welcoming brigade for the Muslims, who really have no time for either you or me.
        If you cannot agree with me, at least try and understand where I am coming from.
        I pray every night for this to come to an end. I am of the fairer sex, believe me, my heart breaks for the little children.
        As Jesus said ” suffer little children to come unto me”.
        But I pray for the Israelis, they have been persecuted enough.
        Norma

    • Laura July 22, 2014 at 2:00 pm #

      Neill: The Hague would have a plethora of war criminals were Iran and Hamas added to your list of attendees to any war crimes tribunal. If you think for one moment that Hamas is not sanctioning the killings of their own people for PR purposes, you are being intentionally blind.

      The main reason for so many deaths in the Gaza Strip is that Hamas wants and needs to win the PR war as it is the only one they have the slightest chance of winning and also because they don’t have and don’t want to have any protection from Israeli rockets which would be counterproductive to their goals. It simply does not meet their criteria for winning the PR war. Israel has the Iron Dome defensive system and uses it with great effect!

      Over the years, Palestine and the PLO have been given much in the way of money, supplies, even green houses as well as much else, all of which they chose to weaponize rather than use to build an infrastructure which would have helped them to create a valid state from which they could have established trade and other agreements throughout Europe and the ME. The blockade by Israel and Egypt was not done immediately, it only happened when Israel was subjected to the rockets launched from the strip and were unable to get compliance for ceasefires from Hamas/Iran. These are other ‘facts’ you really need to consider. Just my thoughts.

      • Wolfe tone July 22, 2014 at 8:07 pm #

        Laura
        If Hamas are aiming to win the propaganda war then why does Israel walk into their trap? Why doesn’t Israel just let the iron dome defensive system continue to do its job ‘with great effect’ as you put it?
        By your reckoning its Israel that will help Hamas win the PR war by killing the Palestinians that Hamas put In front of Israelis missiles???? The Iron dome is swatting the bangers that are being fired at Israel so why bother reacting????
        Laura, do you know William fay by any chance?

        • William Fay July 23, 2014 at 7:56 pm #

          Wolfe, get your head round it, the missile defence system cannot stop a multi missile attack, an

        • William Fay July 23, 2014 at 8:00 pm #

          Sorry Wolfe, glitches in the system, that last message went too early, Hamas are aware that Israel cannot block multiple attacks from various sites. They attack from a number of pop up sites first of all, allow the Israeli air defence to kick in, and then attack again from other sites.

  10. Cal July 22, 2014 at 11:34 am #

    Just on the Israeli ‘warnings’. Last week a Ch.4 news team in Gaza managed to film one of these so called warnings. A non explosive projectile hit a roof of a flat/house, this was the Israeli warning shot. 53 seconds later the house and presumably all those in it were blown to bits by the real deal missile.
    Some warning.

    It is no surprise with such ludicrous warnings that so many entire families spanning generations are being murdered in their homes.

  11. Iolar July 22, 2014 at 1:24 pm #

    John Kerry has come up with a solution. He has $47 million to sort this conflict. How this figure was arrived at, remains a mystery. It is way past time to open up the prison called Gaza. Let the farmers farm, the fishermen fish, the traders trade and allow children to thrive and grow. The slaughter of innocent civilians of whatever nationality, bombing hospitals,
    the miles of insecurity walls and the restrictions imposed by Israeli’s on freedom of movement tell the world all that needs to be told about the regime. The reality is that the Israeli’s are determined to steal more land and to make it look legitimate. There are many Israeli’s who abhor what is happening in Gaza. The way forward is for an immediate end to all hostilities. and an International Peace Keeping initiative to broker and establish a long term peaceful future for all the inhabitants of the region.

    • Norma Wilson July 22, 2014 at 9:43 pm #

      And what about the suicide bombers, did you have a lapse of memory.

  12. Perkin Warbeck July 22, 2014 at 1:42 pm #

    Cometh the hour.

    With the body-count having now reached a ratio of 21-1 (and rising) in favour of the Israelis in their latest bout of defensive pomelling of the Palestinians the new Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Free Southern State, has dramatically made his debut on the Global Stage.

    Cometh the man.

    Doorstepped as he was just about to take the European Summit in Brussels by storm. he was asked to comment on the body count. Such was the quality of statesmanship in his reply that it can only give succour to those, whom it has been calculated were being born every minute,and who had begun to lose hope and despair.,.

    -Where there has been a loss of life on both sides, the timeline is crucial.

    Yes, the very words of none other than he whom Solemnity has marked down for its very own, the grave one who has been summariliy plucked from the obscurity (relative) of Mountmellick in the Midlands of the Queen’s County and thrust into the maelstrom of the Middle East..

    It is as if there truly is a Divinity who has finally lost His patience and, weary of our posturing chosen to end our shapes. And thus chosen to plonk down in the centre of the dithering, a decisive man of action and few words.

    Ladies and gentlemen, please be upstanding for ……Charles Flanagan, Fine Gael TD, and Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Free Southern State.

    Not for him the old policy of the Dublin Government when it came to the Holy Land and its unholy neighbours, the one pilfered from the lexicon of the brazen and abrasavie biddies of backstreet Dublin: ‘Go on ! Hit me with the Holocaust in me arms, would yiz?’

    To get an inkling of his new departure, there is a clue in the two key words in the above paragraphs: ‘timeline’ and yes, (relative). The reason for those brackets will shortly reveal themselves..

    For if there is anybody on this earth who has a better appreciation of the profound importance of the neologism ‘timeline’ than the same Charles Flanagan. (neologism, incidentally, is academic for ‘a darling word’).he has yet to announce him or herself.

    Discerning readers will recall that attention was drawn here recenlty to the most famous quote of the new Foreign Minister’s (relative) in fact, his (father), and TD before him, the legendary sophisticate Oliver J. Flanagan which he uttered back in the middle Sixties (the word ‘middle’ is beginning to emerge as a recurring theme here):

    ‘There was no sex in Ireland before the Late Late Show hit the airwaves in the early Sixties’.

    Note the dates alluded to, for they are not unimportant in the context of what is to follow.

    On the first day of November 1956 one, Charles Flanagan, first made his appearance on Planet Earth, ie, he was born.

    Eh?

    Ladies and Gentlemen, we are talking Timelines here.

    Serious timelines.

    (One is thankful for ferreting out this historical fact to one’s new researcher, Eunan the Trade Unionist who has kindly agreed to lend one, an O’Halpin hand, as it were. His trade is the ferreting out of otherwise unconsidered trifles in the dark soil of d’Archives. And one of his specialities is the new Foreign Minister not least arising out of the fact that the full title is Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade).

    Eunan the Trade Unionist, btw, possesses a peculiar offbeat line in quirky humour. It was he after all who informed an astonished nation that the tune of the ballad of ‘Kevin Barry’ was actually pilfered from an old English countryside ballad called ‘Rolling Home to Rosy-cheeked Rosie’. How gas is that !

    Then, when asked for his take on the new Foreign Minister’s take on the 21-1 scoreline, he paused for a moment, before responding ‘It is as if a soccer pundit had commented in the immediate aftermath of the 7-1 drubbing meted out to the Brazilians by the Germans: ‘Goals have been conceded by both sides’.

    Shalom.

    • Jude Collins July 22, 2014 at 3:23 pm #

      Perkin – If I had the energy to stop laffing, I’d tell you how wonderful that all was…

    • Point is July 22, 2014 at 5:20 pm #

      Perkin, you truly are a star!

  13. Laura July 22, 2014 at 1:43 pm #

    An interesting view much like mine. Recommend all here give it a read and at least consider what it has to say. The Atlantic is not particularly pro- Israel.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/what-exactly-is-hamas-trying-to-prove/374342/

    • Dickens July 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm #

      The author of the article is a former Israeli soldier with continuing strong links to Israel. So cartoons & The Atlantic are supposed to enlighten Jude’s readers/followers & teach us Irish the facts?

      Another website to peruse at your leisure is BS News-no need for thanks, just soak it up-innocent people are being murdered in full view.

      • Pointis July 22, 2014 at 8:57 pm #

        I am not surprised because the views are extremely right wing and the continuing murders of innocent Palestinians in Gaza is dismissed as being basically the fault of Hamas (the old argument used by the Nazis when exterminating residents of French villages during the 2nd World War because of local resistance activity).

        I am afraid what the author fails to understand is that the Irish have a proud tradition of resisting the overwhelming forces of larger oppressive states which is why we are able to empathise with the Palestian people.

        Fingers crossed she doesn’t blog on behalf of Irish Republicans!

    • Wolfe tone July 22, 2014 at 7:53 pm #

      I see alexis sayle has remarked that Israel is the jimmy savile of nations ie it cares not for the well being of kids.
      Mr sayle can say goodbye to any more appearances at the Apollo he might
      have been wishing for because unbeknownst to him jimmy savile was not only lauded by bedfellowes such as the queen and the pope but also senior politicians in Israel. Yes indeed jimmy truly had friends in high places…..lest we forget.
      Don’t you just wonder what the powerful people get up to in their spare time once they are done with telling us what to do in our own time?

  14. Pointis July 22, 2014 at 2:00 pm #

    Can’t wait for Laura’s next exciting contribution “How those Savage Native American Indians got all they deserved”!

    • Laura July 22, 2014 at 4:42 pm #

      I have never, in my entire life called or considered Native Americans savages. Those are your thoughts and words? I consider that truly sad.

  15. RJC July 22, 2014 at 2:05 pm #

    An interesting read. There are of course two sides to every conflict, but much of this reads like propaganda for one of those sides. Yet again, critics of Israeli foreign policy are accused of being ‘anti-Jewish’ – “I gotta say, Jude, I am of the opinion that the anti-Jewish sentiment in Ireland, both north and south, is as appalling as it is anywhere and should be addressed.”

    This is not only hugely offensive to those who criticise Israeli foreign policy, it also demeans the seriousness of what anti-Semitism is. This article then ends with a somewhat offhand allusion to the Holocaust. Criticise Hamas and the worst excesses of Islam all you like, but using the anti-Semetic argument against those who would disagree with you is deeply unpleasant.

    • Norma Wilson July 22, 2014 at 9:45 pm #

      Hear hear RJC

  16. Ceannaire July 22, 2014 at 4:35 pm #

    Norma, Norma, Norma. What’s up with you today? You need to do something about that anger (you do get angry very easily). I also found your general comment about Catholics deeply offensive but let’s not fall out over that. We have all said things we don’t really mean, just to be mean.

    Just one point, if I may.

    “Waken up these fother muckers are radical Islamists, who are fanatics. If I was Israel, and the end was nigh, I would hit the button…”

    Fanatics, you say. You may very well be correct. Just like those who “would hit the button”.

    • Norma Wilson July 22, 2014 at 9:51 pm #

      Yes Ceannaire,

      I am afraid you only need to say one word against the Jews and I go @@££&!(:;())mad!
      Jude can say what he like about the OO and marching and flags, but the Israel is a blue touch paper for me.
      I sure am glad I was not in Belfast last week. I do not know where I would be, probably arrested for GBH

  17. paddykool July 22, 2014 at 5:10 pm #

    Jude : You’ll all be pleased to hear that I had just finished a very eloquent well-thought out critique on all of this …a mighty tome if you like…only for my computer to crash in the heat of the moment .I haven’t the heart to try and re-create it in this damned heat so I’ll leave you for now with baited breath while the machine cools its jets!!!!

  18. Tom July 22, 2014 at 5:11 pm #

    Laura once you begin to justify the slaughter of innocent human beings and bombing the very hospital where the good doctors bereft of proper equipment because of an illegal blockade try to treat them you have lost the war!

    No amount of propaganda will ever convince the Irish people might is right!

    • paddykool July 23, 2014 at 9:07 am #

      Sorry Jude …that should have been “bated ” breath…..like I say , my computer overheated and crashed before i had a chance to edit or save anything.
      This subject appears to have exercised everyone greatly. It’s even made Norma lose her temper a few times.Norma seems to be going through a very angry phase at the moment .I hope it is only temporary. I’d hate to think that the dreaded “dingleberries” will make a re-appearance . I had assumed that daily showering and bathing ablutions had rendered said berries a thing of the very ancient past….but no matter.
      At bottom , this is strictly a humanitarian cry .to stop the killing. Nothing will be gained from any of it .Muslims and the muslim community are not demons.The Israelis are not demons either .They are easily manipulated and frightened human beings living in an invidious situation. We’ve been through a terror of our own, so we know how it works .
      Sure there are some very strange social practices in the Muslim world, to our western eyes and things like honour killings, treating women as somehow inferior or chattels , stoning women to death , and other barbarities will never gain any traction in the western world .
      For Gawdzake we live in a world where smoking was banned in the pub! We’re hardly going to sit up and sanction some new form of slavery or the cutting off of hands … .On purely social terms , in a modern secular world , all religions and customs will be asked to conform to a comfortable norm.The majority of people will not allow otherwise.
      The Jews are not demons either. They are not responsible for all the woes of the world as the tin hat brigade would have us believe, They have a great influence in the arts and in Hollywood and probably in finance because they are very good at some of those things and seem to be a hard working people .They produced Einstein for example, even though he lost all interest in any God.I think Shakespeare nailed it all with the Merchant of Venice, which my father would quote constantly.
      “I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian is? If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge? “…..
      …Just like everyone else , in other words..

      There is no prophesy in the Bible or any other book either. It’s just Stone Age d poems written by men with whatever available knowledge they had… transcribed and re-translated down through the ages by many diverse , fallible hands .It is not the word of some great cosmic deity …just the musings of a bunch of poor muddled men.
      Everything else we see before us is a result of that muddle.

      • Laura July 23, 2014 at 10:59 am #

        Paddykool, I couldn’t agree more. You got it spot on. But I do retain a good few issues with a group like Hamas which would hide their rockets in school busses and launchers in homes, hospitals and schools.

        I will be interested to see what Hamas does with the 47 million dollars (I believe that was the amount) just sent to them by the US. Will they use it to purchase more weapons or will they use it to help the Palestinians with infrastructure, fresh water, food, etc. It will be telling, no?

        • Jude Collins July 23, 2014 at 11:46 am #

          Laura, do you remember where the British army/RUC/UDR used to locate themselves? Beside schools, churches, etc. An old ruse. If the Israelis knew they were homes,hospitals and schools but went ahead just the same, that is monstrous.

          • Laura July 23, 2014 at 1:14 pm #

            I do indeed recall the many dirty tricks used by the RUC, et al in the North of Ireland. It was wrong then and there and it is wrong now.

          • William Fay July 23, 2014 at 8:24 pm #

            Sorry Brian, but you stated Hamas were set up by Israel, they simply were not. I agree they were allowed to function by Israel to suit their needs, and in the environment at the time, that is perfectly understandable.

          • William Fay July 23, 2014 at 8:33 pm #

            Ok Jude, explain the bases set up by the RUC beside schools and churches, I think most of the police barracks in NI were built prior to partition, and therefore older than most schools.

            Laura, please explain “the dirty tricks used in the North of Ireland”, throwaway comments don’t really add much to the debate

          • Cal July 23, 2014 at 10:20 pm #

            Squaddies on patrol also loved to give sweets to local kids. Patrolling flanked by children, callous but effective.

      • Norma wilson July 23, 2014 at 11:22 am #

        PK
        I BELIEVE YOU ARE A GREAT AND GOOD MAN.
        YOU SPEAK BEAUTIFULLY, YOU HAVE A VERY CALMING EFFECT ON ME.
        I thought you were with your bees yesterday.
        Norma

        AS FOR THE DB IF I WAS CORNERED I WOULD BIT THEM OFF, I STILL HAVE MY OWN NASHERS

  19. Brian Patterson July 22, 2014 at 5:47 pm #

    Laura omits to point out that the Hamas she so detests was set up by Israel to undermine the secular All Fatah. To blame as she had the Palestinians for all the sins of extreme variants of Islam is akin to blaming Newry Catholics for the Inquisition. Come to think of it I knew a guy from Derrybeg (Newry) who did n’t like Protestants….

    • William Fay July 22, 2014 at 8:06 pm #

      Brian, I’m unsure where you get your facts from but Hamas was not formed by Israel. It actually was formed by extremists from the Egyptian Brotherhood during the so called Ist Intifada, please deal in facts not semantics.

  20. neill July 22, 2014 at 7:49 pm #

    How many of the people who have contributed to this discussion have spent time in the Middle East?

    • Laura July 23, 2014 at 11:06 am #

      I have lived in both Turkey (3 years) and Algeria (10 months) and traveled to a number of other ME countries. All were Muslim countries although I’m not sure these 2 are strictly considered the ME.

      • William Fay July 26, 2014 at 10:42 pm #

        Hi Laura, still waiting on your explanation on your throwaway comment on “the RUC dirty tricks in the North of Ireland”. You need to validate your own position rather than thinking if you make a comment that might endear the republicans, then they might might give you an easy ride.

        • wolfe tone July 27, 2014 at 11:51 am #

          william fay

          if you seriously need an explanation on ruc dirty tricks then i suggest you re- evaluate the ‘research’ you are interested in at present.

  21. Brian Patterson July 23, 2014 at 3:44 pm #

    William you are correct that Hamss derived immediate from the Muslim Brotherhood. Its predecessor in Israel/ Palestine was a group nsmed the Mujama.The West and Israel had always feared secular leftist Arab Nationalism and Menachim Begin on the advice of Shin Bet and Mossad approved its foundation and created the Village Leagues which were packed with collaborationist Palestinians. Among these was Sheikh Ahmad Yasdin. The perceived colloborationists were heavily funded by the Israeli government who were ruthlessly suppressing Al Fatah and also by anti-Arafat Gulf states.They allowed Yassin to set up his iwn newspaper and to turn the University of Gaza into his own fundamentalist fiefdom. Mujama was tacitly permitted to arm against the secularist PLO. Israeli troops stood by grinning when Mujamah started riots and stormed the Palestinian Red Crescent headquarters.The love affair was inevitably to fizzle out. Yassin was caught in possession of weapons and sentenced to 12 years. However he claimed they were for use against All Fatah and was quietly released after a year. Hamas was set up in 1987 as an offshoot of the Mujamah and the Muslim Brotherhood. Contact beween Hamas and Israel was maintained up to 1987 when Hanas murdered two Israeli soldiers. In 1994 it adopted the tactic of suicide bombing.Israel’s role in the promotion of fundamentalist Islam and the subsequent foundation of Hamas has been attested to by many politicians, military spokesmen and commentators from Israel, the Arab world the USA and elsewhere.

  22. neill July 25, 2014 at 10:15 am #

    Response to a letter from a SF councillor from the Israel Ambassador

    July 18th 2014
    Dear Councillor,
    I wish to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated July 16th.
    I reject out of hand your expression of ‘disgust’. Please excuse me if I missed a similar expression of ‘disgust’ from Sinn Fein representatives at the incessant and indiscriminate rocket and mortar attacks on Israeli civilians by Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups. These attacks, which began in 2001 and escalated dramatically after Israel withdrew its army totally and evacuated all settlers from Gaza in 2005, have now reached the number of almost 15,000. Since the 12th of June, around 1,500 rockets, including Iranian Fajr-5 and long-range Syrian-made M302 missiles, have been launched at Israeli men, women and children. At this moment, 5 million people, a number greater than the population of Ireland, are exposed to rocket fire every day and night.

    I may also have missed your expressions of disgust at the ever-mounting death toll of 170,000 Arab people, including 10,000 Palestinian Arabs, in the Syrian civil war, or the daily and weekly mass murder of innocent people in Nigeria, Kenya, Somalia, Iraq and Pakistan by Islamist jihadists similar to those of Hamas. Just now, over 200 Nigerian Christian teenage schoolgirls remain in captivity three months after being abducted and enslaved by the jihadists of Boko Haram. I do not recall an expression of disgust at this horror, but forgive me if I missed it.

    I will not accept a lecture about international law from Sinn Fein, an organisation with a long record of supporting Palestinian terrorism. In my letter to The Irish Times this week, which I would strongly recommend you read, I set out the legal position regarding, on the one hand, Hamas indiscriminate attacks on Israeli civilians (in violation of Articles 48 and 51 of the Geneva Convention Additional Protocol) and, on the other, Hamas’ use of Gazan civilians as human shields in order to maximize casualties to score PR victories against Israel (in violation of Articles 51(7) and 58 of the Protocol).At the same time, the cowardly leaders and commanders of Hamas hide in underground bunkers and tunnels.

    It is no thanks to Hamas and the other terrorists that Israeli casualties are not greater. We in Israel invest a lot of money and effort in building the Iron Dome system, the bomb shelters and the safe rooms that protect our civilians from attack. The terrorists, by contrast, invest their funds in building a sophisticated infrastructure of tunnels and rocket launch facilities, but build nothing to protect the ordinary people under their rule or to improve the life conditions of the Palestinian civilians in Gaza.

    The democratic (it is not a ‘claim’ but a reality) state of Israel has as its first duty to protect its citizens, Jewish, Arab and others from terrorist attack. The military operation launched by Israel, far from being ‘collective punishment’ of the Gazan population, is the very opposite of ‘indiscriminate’ – it is precisely targeted at Hamas command and control centres, rocket launch sites and terrorist operatives. Israel’s armed forces do all in their power, helped by the latest technology, to limit their attacks to legitimate military targets and to avoid harming the innocent civilians of Gaza. That cannot guarantee that mistakes will not happen. Even the best technology is subject to human error. Every innocent life lost on either side is a tragedy for us. But the sad reality is that, for Hamas, every Israeli death and injury is a cause for celebration and each Palestinian who loses his life is seen by them as a PR victory.

    The Palestinian people are not our enemies. If Israel really wished to ‘slaughter’ them, as you allege, it has the firepower to do so many times over. Instead, it takes all possible steps to prevent harm to the people of Gaza, sending advance warnings of attacks by telephone calls, text messages and leaflets. The chief blame for the Palestinian death toll lies with the terrorists who rule their people with an iron hand and deliberately and cynically put them in harm’s way. Hamas is collectively punishing the citizens of Gaza and creating a genocide of its own people.

    As is stated clearly in the Charter of Hamas (available on the internet for anyone to read) the goal of Hamas is the elimination of the state of Israel and the murder of every Jew. The prevention of this goal being realized is the chief reason why Israel must maintain its military strength. The people of Israel will keep up their resistance to Hamas aggression. As for your call to ‘lift the blockade of Gaza’, I can tell you that Israel will continue to do its utmost to cut off the smuggling of weaponry and the supply of materials used to build the terrorist infrastructure in Gaza. That will not lessen the inflow of food, energy and other necessary humanitarian supplies which Israel has maintained through every day of this conflict. In the last ten days, almost 700 trucks filled with humanitarian goods, food, medicine and other supplies have entered Gaza from Israel via the Kerem Shalom Crossing and almost 2000 people have crossed in and out of Gaza via the Erez Crossing.

    No democratic country in the world would fail to take the actions undertaken by Israel if its civilians were under attack. True proportionality is not a matter of the relative tally of casualties on each side, but of doing what is necessary to eliminate the threat to civilians, and that is what Israel has been doing since 8 July. As public representatives, elected by the people of Dublin, I would like to respectfully suggest that you try to adopt a more balanced, rational and fair approach to what is a most complex conflict.

    Yours sincerely
    Boaz Modai
    Ambassador of Israel,”

  23. Wolfe tone July 25, 2014 at 6:24 pm #

    I guess the IDF bombing of the UN run school in Gaza yesterday was perhaps a two fingered gesture to the UN for condemning the carnage brought upon the Palestinians by Israel? Blatant and arrogant. Shamefully the gombeens in the Dail refused to back the UN resolution….no wonder the establishment in the south don’t want republicans about the place……they wouldn’t want them to gatecrash the cosy set up the puppets in the south have with the US and therefore the UK. The arrogantly named ‘Irish republic’ has been well and truly tamed; well and truly dumbed down.