Gerry Adams, claims, fact and the Irish Times


It didn’t take long. Yesterday in the Letters column of the Irish Times, Gerry Adams noted that said newspaper had clearly set out its stall as firmly in opposition to Sinn Féin being worthy to be in government in the south, or to have any hand, act or part in government. Swift as a thunderbolt, today’s Irish Times editorial crashes to earth, vindicating Adams’s claim – and a claim I made on RTÉ’s  Prime Time on Thursday night.

In its lead editorial, the paper of record talks – quite rightly – of the “despicable crime” that is child abuse. Three paragraphs in (it’s quite a lengthy editorial), it says “Paudie McGahon, who, along with another young man  in the Louth areas was raped by an IRA member in 1992, has accused Sinn Féin of trying to avoid any responsibility in the matter”. Now. Consider that subordinate clause above. It isn’t “alleges he was raped by an IRA member” or “claims that he was raped” – it’s “was raped”.  This is exactly the thinking and articulation that I spoke of on Prime Time. What was in fact a claim has, without any supporting evidence, become a fact: McGahon was raped.  It may in the end turn out that he was, in which case I sincerely hope  his attacker is located and that he is punished as he deserves to be. But we’re not there yet. In fact, we’re some way from it. For the Irish Times to move so seamlessly from claim to verified fact, in the absence of evidence, is frankly astonishing. Is the credibility of the claim – how we feel about the allegation – to decide whether or not it’s true? Was there ever such obvious and arrant nonsense? And very dangerous nonsense at that. When claims receive immediate acceptance as fact, witch-hunt rules. Which is very much not-OK.

As for the leader of Sinn Féin’s comment that the Irish Times had declared itself as opposed  to Sinn Féin politically,  there couldn’t be better corroborating evidence than today’s lead editorial.

So now we have the Sindo and the Irish Times lined up against the Shinners. And did I mention the News Letter and the Belfast Telegraph? And then people declare that Sinn Féin claims of media bias against them is a figment of their imaginations. It’s a mad world, my masters.

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63 Responses to Gerry Adams, claims, fact and the Irish Times

  1. Pj Dorrian March 14, 2015 at 10:28 am #

    One wonders if the print media really want a trial, no trial then the matter can bedraggled up forever, trial and outcome really puts it to bed.

    • Antonio March 15, 2015 at 2:02 pm #

      You have a point and with the sheer scale of the news stories on these matters a defence barrister could (and most likely will if/when there are trials) argue that the trial a fair trial is not possible due to the jury being susceptible to media information changing their minds etc

  2. Brian Patterson March 14, 2015 at 10:55 am #

    If the Shinners did not exist it would surely be necessary to invent them to fill up space left over from vacuous triviality (Indo) Likewise Stephen Collins (IT) would have to find another bête noire. Nevertheless 38 years is too long for any leader and Adams should step aside hence depriving the Free Staters of their anti SF oxygen. Hey, hey hello Mary Lou..

  3. Sherdy March 14, 2015 at 11:38 am #

    Truth is the first casualty of war.
    And the media in general, supported by the present Irish government, are promoting that war.
    But as Sinn Fein progress politically north and south, to possibly the biggest party in both jurisdictions, watch how quickly attitudes will change – principles be damned!

  4. neill March 14, 2015 at 11:55 am #

    You are completely right I think it’s an absolute disgrace that any paper should ask Sf any difficult questions whatsoever afterall who really cares about their economic policies their views on child abuse rapists fuel smuggling and their recent conversion to solely democratic beliefs sure let them in government without any questions whatsoever because that is obviously how many people on this blog want it

    BTW as long as they have you jude who needs the rest of the Irish media on their side?

    • Jude Collins March 14, 2015 at 3:52 pm #

      Oh Neill you silver-tongued devil. How well you know (and judge) me…

    • ASR March 14, 2015 at 4:43 pm #

      Do you intend Neil to comment on the issue raised in the blog? Sinn Fein being asked questions about economics or their views about child rapists is that not the issue being discussed and you know that. Now what do you think about newspapers stating things as fact without evidence?

  5. Gerry McDermott March 14, 2015 at 12:27 pm #

    The Irish Times etc,might point to Gerry Adams acceptance of this Rape,but then they always believe Gerry on these things.

  6. Larry Murphy March 14, 2015 at 12:30 pm #

    In 2009 McGahon was advised to go to An Garda Síochána and offered support by A Sinn Fein TD? If that remains true then it is end od story as far as I would be concerned. All the rest of this shit is political opportunism and the worst type of devious and cynical manipulation of a vulnerable individual.

    • Jude Collins March 14, 2015 at 3:51 pm #

      I think you’ve sewn it up nicely, Larry. But don’t forget this is an election campaign we’re in – bitter, divisive and very, very long.

      • giordanobruno March 14, 2015 at 6:07 pm #

        The media do what the media always do. If there was a story connecting Enda Kenny to child abuse do you not think they would be all over it?
        At the end of the day if these people had not allegedly been so poorly treated by the republican movement there would be no story,so who is to blame?
        When stories of clerical abuse come out,is it the fault of the media for reporting it,or the fault of the abusers and those covering it up?
        When will those involved in these kangaroo courts (they did happen we know) come forward and clarify what happened,or will it just be more statements from solicitors denying everything.?
        Is it faulty memory or fear that prevents them coming forward? Or just blind loyalty?

        • Larry Murphy March 15, 2015 at 5:27 pm #

          Let us try a fairer comparison. Suppose the incident had taken place in West Cork and the accused a Fine Gael election worker. On the matter being brought to his attention 17 years later the local Fine Gael TD properly advises the complainant to go to An Garda Síochána and offers to go with him as support. Do you imagine that Enda Kenny would be suffering the same harassment as is Gerry Adams at this moment in time 23 years after the still alleged incident. Media doing their job my arse ..!! Agenda agenda agenda.

          • giordanobruno March 15, 2015 at 6:17 pm #

            A fairly selective presentation there.
            If the allegation included a nutting squad closely connected to Fine Gael and if Enda had previously faced accusations of attempting to cover up 2 other abuse cases,including one involving his own family,then yes I think the media would be very interested in that.
            How many cases would have to come to light before a SF supporter would reconsider their support? Or does party loyalty trump all other considerations?

          • Jude Collins March 15, 2015 at 6:19 pm #

            How do you know so much about the IRA, gio?

          • Larry Murphy March 15, 2015 at 9:29 pm #

            No Gio
            I am far to fond of my own opinion ever to be considered a supporter of any organisation, but I do like fair play. And I think it would be fair to to say that most of the dirt that is being conveniently dished up about Sinn Fein at the moment is based on unproven allegations, mostly by people with an agenda to damage the party’s electoral prospects.

            When you say ‘how many cases would have to come to light’ do you mean how many more unproven allegations? Because that is all you have been producing so far.
            As Jude has often remarked, a different type of rules of evidence seems to apply with regard to Sinn Fein. In that unsupported allegations are regarded as proof.

          • giordanobruno March 15, 2015 at 9:40 pm #

            Despite how little I know, I wish I knew less.
            I wish I had never heard of them. I wish they had disappeared completely after their previous incarnation and the fruitless border campaign.

          • giordanobruno March 16, 2015 at 12:23 pm #

            I think the cases of Gerry Adams niece, Aine and the case of Mairia Cahill are accepted as having taken place.
            The questions are relating to how Adams and the republican movement dealt with them.
            The latest case may turn out to be unfounded, but so far it fits the pattern.
            Failing to explain in one case may be, as Wilde would put it a misfortune, but failing to explain 3 separate cases looks like carelessness.
            Except carelessness isn’t the right word is it? Cover-up might be more appropriate.
            It of course lies in the power of Sinn Fein and all good republicans to give clear statements on what their involvement was.
            Who was present at these so-called kangaroo courts?
            What was said to the alleged victims?
            Where are those who were exiled?
            Were Social Services informed of the location of these people?
            I’m sure the answers will be coming any day now!

          • Jude Collins March 16, 2015 at 12:43 pm #

            Pardon me butting in on your dialogue with Larry, gio – but “I think the cases of Gerry Adams niece, Aine and the case of Mairia Cahill are accepted as having taken place”?? What does “accepted” mean? Is that the same as having no evidence but agreeing that ach sure we all know it took place?

          • giordanobruno March 16, 2015 at 2:22 pm #

            I pardon you.
            What I mean is the abuse is accepted as having taken place. Liam Adams was convicted. In Mairia Cahill’s case many prominent SF persons including Gerry Adams accept that the abuse happened.
            The questions being asked are exactly what did the republican movement do in these cases during meetings with the victims and subsequently with the alleged abusers?
            Are you perfectly content with the explanations you have heard?
            No curiosity about where the alleged offenders were exiled to?

          • Jude Collins March 16, 2015 at 2:35 pm #

            Gio – thank you for your gracious pardon…
            Liam Adams – he was tried in the court and convicted. That seems to me due process, even if he was eternally introduces as ‘Gerry Adams’s brother”. As to the Mairia Cahill case – I don’t care who or how many people accepted that abuse happened: I would still ask – where’s the evidence. We don’t find people in court guilty or innocent on the basis of what people outside the court think. So when we move from ‘accepted’ to ‘evidence’, then I’ll be happy to respond to the other questions. I think that it’s interesting that nobody has been charged with the various iniquities you list. Why is that, do you think?

          • Wolfe tone March 16, 2015 at 2:23 pm #

            You of all people should adhere to your own guidelines concerning abuse allegations. After all you are quick to urge people to supply the evidence when one makes allegations against say, Lord mountbatten,prince Charles,Edward and Phillip. Or against Leon brittan,ted Heath or a deputy head of mi5.
            In my opinion if anybody used the cover of irish republicanism to abuse kids then they should be given a kind of justice that isn’t available in the British or irish judicial system. The same goes for those who use the cover of royalty,religion,law enforcement etc to carry out the same abuses.
            If the IRA had used the people with in the established law enforcement,judiciary and/or political establishment to cover up sexual abuse then that indeed is an even bigger shameful and serious matter.

          • giordanobruno March 17, 2015 at 4:53 pm #

            That you are avoiding the questions is no surprise I’m afraid.
            That is consistent with all the good republicans who have failed to come forward to help clarify the matter of kangaroo courts and the whereabouts of possible offenders.
            Except of course a few who helped show their concern for victims by issuing a statement through solicitors.

          • Jude Collins March 17, 2015 at 5:47 pm #

            Any questions I avoided, gio, were questions to which I had no answer. Maybe because they were based on very shaky premises, of course…

  7. Argenta March 14, 2015 at 12:37 pm #

    How come that when Sinn Fein were asked to provide a representative for Prime Time the other night,the only person available was you good self?If there is an apparent bias by the print media and T V,surely every opportunity to get your message across should be taken.Sinn Fein is hardly a party that is lacking in media skills!

    • Jude Collins March 14, 2015 at 3:49 pm #

      Why don’t you ask them if you’re interested in an answer, Argie? M McG is on Twitter, y’know. And GA.

      • Argenta March 14, 2015 at 5:39 pm #

        I should have known that I’d get the usual glib response.It does seem though that you’re the go to man when Sinn Fein (for whatever reasons) don’t want to appear on radio or T V.Why this paranoia about the Southern media when your party is doing so well in the opinion polls?Do you expect an uncritical press who believe everything that S F say?It’s not as if Fine Gael/Fianna Fáil and Labour are immune from criticism in the press down south!

        • Jude Collins March 15, 2015 at 12:32 pm #

          You’re a laff, Argie, I’ll grant you that. I’d agree that SF should expect no more and no less criticism/commentary than any other political party in the south. Yet despite both FF and FG having screwed the people there, and Labour having made promises they didn’t keep, every week and sometimes several times a week I’ll see articles (online, natch) pounding the Shinners like there was no tomorrow. A Martian would assume that SF was the repository of all things politically evil. I don’t think that’s responsible levels of criticism. Why not count the commentaries on different political parties for a week and see?

  8. Joe McVeigh March 14, 2015 at 12:56 pm #

    The Irish Times has never hidden its pro-British, pro-unionist stance.

  9. Perkin Warbeck March 14, 2015 at 12:58 pm #

    Peculiar all the same how the Free Southern State media, having turned its back so emphatically on the Catholic Church or to translate that into the current Paisleyite patois which is all the fash on Liffyeyside, the Roman Catholic Church, yet has still managed to cling on to some old treasured artifacts of the old order.

    Not all the baby has been thrown out of the baptisimal font: some bits and bobs are allowed to remain. As a reminder,like.

    One refers to the red-hot pincers which were once a favourite form of torture of red-socked Popes in medieval times. Leo X, being a Prime example of his Time. He suffered from a stupendously hideous anal fistula which had to be treated every few days. Some discontented cardinals spotted an opening there and so conspired to poison the papal bandages, thus getting at him from the bottom up, as it were.

    Alas, their conspiracy was exposed when someone twigged their secret codeword:

    -Igggy ! Iggy ! Iggy ! Auggie ! Auggie ! Auggie !

    Which led to the rumbled cardinal sinners being tumbriilled through the eternal streets of Rome by a team of stomping stallions even as the enthusiastic citizens gleefully pinched their flesh with red-hot pincers.

    Curious, is it not, that this erm, connectivity of Leos and horses in the street has endured in the secular and secateured Dublin of this day. A day in which the toga of Roman Centurion is donned by a rude Limerick mechanical, Paulie and, yes, the red-hot pincers are being brandished in a splendid display of timing and teamwork by those two, erm diametrically opposed rivals, The Unionist Times and The Irish Dependent.

    Not for nothing are TUT and TID compared to two Cathedrals, in the manner in which they dominate the shoneen sklyine just like Christchurch and St. Patrick’s, one highbrow the other lowbrow.

    Now while you were monitoring the former, Esteemed Blogmeister, the gimlet eye of Perkie’s inner spy was gawking over the latter. And to his astonishment discovered that although they came dressed in contrasting vestments it transpired they were actually singing from the same hymn and her sheet.

    A text-book example of the nigh-perfect red-hot pincer movement/ rd ht pnchr mvmnt.

    In the latter case it was in the fragrant form of the luscious Liz O’Donnell. Now, one imagines the editorial writer of TUT (whoever wields that medieval O’Toole of torture, the red-hot pincer) togged out in a pompous dickey bow and tails in the privacy of his own cubby hole ,much in the manner of BBC radio news readers back in the 1920 when 2RN was its Irish equivalent,

    Not so, with the luscious Liz. In a previous manifestation (presonifestation?) was a high flying politician in charge of, erm, Overseas Development. LOD and OD went hand in glove, not unlike TUT and TID, come to think of it.

    And on one famous occasion after leaving politics the luscious Liz sensationally revealed that (gulp) she regularly conducted radio interviews in her underwear while in office,if not exactly in her office. Hence, the (gasp) prurient Perkie’s preference for the TID today.

    Hence, also while LOD’s then GOD and PD party leader, D. O Malley stood, splay- footed ‘for the Republic’ she was behind him that day murmuring her support which never sagged for the flag::

    -Eire go Bra.

    Consider some bullet points from the sermon on her mounted high horse today and see if it chimes with that of The Unionist Times:

    -there are just too many unanswered questions, unsolved murders, missing bodies, unsavoury associations and activities which can be linked to the party for a line to be drawn to the point of fitness to govern in the Republic rhubab rhubarb rhubard..

    And other choice phrases in that particular rhubarb patch of purple prose.

    Though no relation of the Gorse Hill O’Donnells who dwell in such abjest squalor on the windblown side of Killiney Hill, Liz was nonetheless drawn to the matter of moola much as a flap-footed lizard is drawn to the grasshopper, ant and cricket:

    -Sinn Fein is by far the wealthiest party in the Dail thanks to their American donors.

    And of course G-strings, oops, heart strings were plucked by the de riguer references to The Sleepless Beauty and her protoge called Paudie , whose courageously chilling dissing of the Shinners as ‘being between a cult and a mafia’ was disinterestedly recycled by Lodie.


    Perkie’s inner trend spotter wondered was it coinicidence that yesterday, Friday 13, blonde LOD’s successor as the Doris Day of the Free Southern Stateen political cowboy movie , Lucinda, appeared on the stage as the leader of the RN2 (see above).

    -Come back 2RN.

    That Groucho Marx famously knew the original Doris Day ‘before she was a virgin’ and used to conduct her biziness in her underwear is neither h. or there.Nor is the fact that the original Doris Day had an unexpected connection with a cult by the fact of her son, Terry Melcher being the actual owner of the Belverly Hills house in which Sharon Tate was resident,

    What is apropos, perhaps, is that while one may well have left the Stage is no guarantee that one has shed one’s Deadwood.

    Now, where in tarnation did one leave one’s cowhide whip?

    -Whipcrackaway !

    • Jude Collins March 14, 2015 at 3:48 pm #

      You mean “-Whipcrackaway, -Whipcrackaway.-Whipcrackawaaaaaaaaaay!”, Perkie…I’d forgotten about that one Groucho knowing Doris before she was a virgin. But then, doing all those pic-a-boo movies with Rock Hudson would have ensured her. um, intactness for longer than the average blonde…

      • paddykool March 14, 2015 at 5:35 pm #

        “-Igggy ! Iggy ! Iggy ! Auggie ! Auggie ! Auggie !”…indeed Mighty Perk . I’m afraid I’ll have to step in and whisk away the animal-loving Doris from both your grasping clutches . Both yourself and Blogmeister supremo Jude, surely must know that it was not the Marxman Groucho who uttered that unholy phrase referring to the stainfree past of our whipcrackaway gal ,but rather, same quote has been ascribed to one Oscar Levant .Before he laid into the blonde Miss Von Kappelhoff { a world-straddling singing star, i’ll have you know!!}…. he also variously let rip with such gems as ..”Schizophrenia sure beats eating alone”….and “Underneath this flabby exterior there is an enormous lack of character”. My personal favourite has to be …”Now that Marilyn Monroe is kosher, Arthur Miller can eat her.” { on her momentary conversion to Judaism]….you gotta laugh…Que sera sera….

        • Perkin Warbeck March 15, 2015 at 1:44 pm #

          Paddycool, a chara,

          I’m afraid this will have to go to a court of law: evidence ! evidence ! evidence !

          You may well be found insane but innocent.

          As ye olde Englishe teacher of moi was found of saying, re the cloud of doubt hovering over the authorship of Shakespeare: ‘It way well have been written by another man entirely – of the same name’.

          Anam an diabhail ! Could that English teach of moi have been….?

          Ta se ina la – am le himeacht.

          Beir gach bua,


          Ides of March.

      • Perkin Warbeck March 14, 2015 at 6:39 pm #

        Zounds ! Surely you’re not suggesting, ar feadh oiread is bomaite amhain, that Rock H. was born under the sign of Leo?

        One look at the dude will tell you he was a Zodiac.

        That class of Rock is as different as a Dickie from a Barney.

        Bone up, Esteemed Blogmeister, on the old Ass-trology.

  10. Mick Early March 14, 2015 at 1:31 pm #

    I think the really obvious bias against all things Republican in the establishment media is actually starting to backfire. More and more people are calling them out on it. It could actually see SF in power soon. Always be careful of blowback! Look what happened to the Yank in Afganistan and Itaq!

  11. IrelandSaoirse March 14, 2015 at 1:34 pm #

    Well that is just gutter journalism,the type of stuff you’d expect to see in the Sun or some other british tabloid, I think people can see through the media witch hunt though,in fact I think it will have the opposite effect and will increase support for SF, people are well an truly sick of the ‘establishment’ parties and the media friends in west brit D4,
    roll on the election,there will be a massive boycott of Irish water bills now when they start arriving,the day of reckoning is coming for Edna and Joan.

  12. Me March 14, 2015 at 1:36 pm #

    True or not with the writer’s attitude no wonder paedophile rings get away with MURDER for decades. Who would be bothered telling people like about their abuse if this is the response knowing it will take forever to get justice anyway. No wonder victims suffer on and abuse thrives. Child abuse is not one of the worst things this party is guilty of in fact I thought it was a story about SF and Gerry’s past. Very disappointed!

  13. paddykool March 14, 2015 at 1:39 pm #

    Mind you Jude…I don’t think it’ll matter one whit what the Bel Tel, the Newsletter, the Independant or the Irish Times believe or say anyway. These are hardly the newssheets from which republicans or future republicans will ever take their cue .It is easy to see the mad panic in all the articles and on television when they are prepared to throw out the laws of evidence and proof and print the legend. I’m not sure anyone potentially voting republican is as daft as to believe this kind of manipulation.We’re almost getting back to banning people from the airwaves…voicing them with actors’ voices…any damn thing to get them off our backs, really!!
    If a crime has been committed …get into court with it and sort it out.Like i said elsewhere , if a man rapes a man in a household ..that’s a crime .That’s all it is …a crime to be tried …not some political football to b ekicked about.

  14. Francis March 14, 2015 at 1:56 pm #

    A withering, relentless anti SF bias I think, far from curtailing the rising political arc of the party in the south of the country, seems to be having the completely opposite effect. SF supporters like others who may not have committed to who they are going to vote for, are both savvy and becoming more savvy at assessing the media’s role in mischief. Timing is everything in Drama, and the printed media and their pundits in the establishment are vying for the Beckett award.

  15. Am Ghobsmacht March 14, 2015 at 2:04 pm #

    Dr C

    I have to ask, do you understand why people may have a problem with SF?
    They are not a ‘normal party’ given their recent history and Irish people in particular have very long memories.

    e.g. You’ll seldom hear an English person complain about being the international-supermarket of choice for slaves hundreds of years ago but you’ll constantly hear Irish people harping on about the Boyne (as if it mattered) or Cromwell (as if other countries didn’t suffer genocidal generals) .

    I have a theory that Irish people, in particular the Ulster variant, are very reactive.

    There’s all too often a circling of the wagons:
    unionists do it when criticised (even when the criticism is sound) and Shinners, would-be Shinners and usually-not-Shinners-at-all do the same (even when the criticism is sound).

    LAD get criticised for lampooning planet Loyalism when the opportunity presents itself.
    The thing is, loyalism presents itself on a platter on a weekly basis, hence LAD feast (rightly so)accordingly.

    SF are lampooned or criticised when the political circumstances present themselves which is regularly, even more so approaching an election.

    Don’t expect disgruntled small ‘u’ unionists who have no time for the Frazers, McCauslands, Robinsons, Allisters or Brysons of this world to show restraint.

    Likewise, don’t expect journalists and ordinary citizens to make life easy for SF.
    When people speak of ‘skeletons in the closet’ it is normally an analogy, with SF it is an almost literal reference.

    Sometimes newspapers pour scorn on political parties because of ‘alleged’ agendas on behalf of the paper’s owner (see what I did there to avoid you getting sued?) which is depressing, reprehensible but alas reality.

    Surely it’s better that a paper takes a dislike to a certain party because they actually find something to dislike about said party? (assuming that is the case, I don’t know who owns said papers….)

    Disliking the DUP is not a crime, nor should it be.
    Disliking SF is not a crime nor should it be.
    Nor should either party complain about it, they’ve both made their own beds, they are the biggest parties in NI and the numerous oysters that they’ve had to crack to get there has blackened their names in many quarters.

    Reap what you sow.

    • ASR March 14, 2015 at 4:57 pm #

      Is there a cut-off date about ‘harping on’ about things? Would be handy to know.

      • Am Ghobsmacht March 16, 2015 at 12:00 pm #

        Not sure, but I hope that we could phase out the ‘harping’ about the ‘Glorious 12th’ or the Siege of Derry or Cromwell.

        ‘Remember 1690’? I’d rather not…

    • Antonio March 14, 2015 at 5:41 pm #

      ”You’ll seldom hear an English person complain about being the international-supermarket of choice for slaves hundreds of years ago but you’ll constantly hear Irish people harping on about the Boyne (as if it mattered) or Cromwell (as if other countries didn’t suffer genocidal generals) .”

      Do you mean 1000s of years ago in regards England being a supermarket for slave traders??

      it’s true the English generally do not complain about perceived persecutions as much as the Irish (or Poles, Jews, Africans, black americans, south americans, East Germans etc etc)
      They are more prone to something worse. Glorifying in imperialism. Rewriting history to edit out all the nasty stuff done by their British State and harping on about world war 2 ad naseum as if they single-handedly won the war without any help from the U.S.S.R (who actually won the war). even the fact of the Americans saving Britain is down-played too much.

      Give me the Irish ‘persecution complex’ (as you seem to see it) before that English ‘arrogant delusion of national self importance’ (as I see them) any day of the week .

      As regard Paudie McGahon, I am inclined to believe most if not all of what he said on the Spotlight program. However, the allegations have not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. Until that happens they are allegations. And only allegations. Just like it would be written by the Irish Times’ editor if he was writing on MI5 involvement with the Kincora scandal. The editor would not state as fact that MI5 were involved in covering up rape. Therefore he should not be stating as fact (or giving the impression of no reasonable doubt) on rape cover-up allegations regarding republicans.

      • Am Ghobsmacht March 16, 2015 at 11:57 am #

        “Do you mean 1000s of years ago in regards England being a supermarket for slave traders?? ”


        There were more white people in North Africa in the early-mid 1600’s than in north America c/o the white slave trade, a great umber of them were English.

        Barbary pirates, corsairs and the Ottomans used the English coast like a pick n’ mix shop up until the late 1600’s

        • Antonio March 19, 2015 at 11:23 am #

          I must say I thought the English navy would have been sufficiently strong up to the 1600s to repel slave traders from far off lands but alas I assume you’ve read about it.

          And what a fine people these English are too not dwell on these miserable sufferings in their past. How stoic they are in comparison to those whinging Irish constantly harping on about misdeeds carried out against their ancestors.

          Of course it would likely be a different story if the English’ closest neighbours built a giant fuck off statue celebrating some king dick of the Barbary pirates outside their Parliament. The English do not have to contend with some of their fellow countrymen and their nearest neighbour constantly revisiting the actions of the Barbary pirates and corsair slave traders and telling them that a lot of good came out of it. All in the name of balance of course.
          The English don’t have to put up with their fellow countrymen naming streets and community hubs after Ottoman slave traders. They don’t pay a license fee to a state broadcaster based across the water which gives airtime to politicians to make documentaries extolling the virtues of Barbary pirates and how they were amongst the greatest living beings of all time.

          If people are keen for Irish nationalists to shut up about matters from 100s of years ago then would be a good effort on the part of our neighbours on both islands to be more sensitive when writing, talking, broadcasting about events 100s of years ago. Because in many cases the Irish nationalist talking about far gone history is often a response to British people harping on about how we exaggerate our ancestors experiences.

          • Am Ghobsmacht March 19, 2015 at 11:37 pm #


            “Of course it would likely be a different story if the English’ closest neighbours built a giant fuck off statue celebrating some king dick of the Barbary pirates outside their Parliament”

            Right, not exactly the same ball park, but here is an example of the French keeping alive the memory of a man who conquered England inch by inch, decapitated her upper class and suppressed the language.


            “The English don’t have to put up with their fellow countrymen naming streets and community hubs after Ottoman slave traders”


            But in fairness aside from Cromwell, Londonderry and Craigavon how many street names were deliberately named to provoke ‘the locals’?

            I see a lot of nationalist posters comment on ‘royal’ names but in fairness these names became retrospectively offensive before the concept of nationalism was either popular or in some cases before it was even invented as an idea, how can you choose names that won’t offend ideologies that either don’t yet exist or are not yet popular?

            21st century Irish nationalism seems to me to be far removed from 19th century Irish nationalism/pro-Home Rule, to assume that all nationalists felt equally as non-plussed back then as they do now is quite a stretch.

            There has been a rebellion, a war, a civil war (or two) and a polarisation since the 19th century (when most of these places were named),how is it likely that nationalists back then would be as injured by these names as their modern day descendants?

            “If people are keen for Irish nationalists to shut up about matters from 100s of years ago then would be a good effort on the part of our neighbours on both islands to be more sensitive when writing, talking, broadcasting about events 100s of years ago”


            “Because in many cases the Irish nationalist talking about far gone history is often a response to British people harping on about how we exaggerate our ancestors experiences”

            Chicken-egg scenario there, I’ve lost count of how many English backpackers I’ve met who have been outright abused by Irish people on account of some bloke called Cromwell whom they’ve never heard of.

            Many many English people are utterly clueless and indifferent about Irish history preferring just to come over to Dublin for banter.

            I can’t see them provoking Irish people into reading volumes of Tim Pat Coogan to galvanise their outrage at British rule.

  16. James March 14, 2015 at 2:31 pm #

    In fairness to the southern media, just when you think they cannot sink any lower, they go the extra mile in their race to the bottom. Their efforts at journalism are laughable.

  17. Pointis March 14, 2015 at 2:44 pm #

    I am afraid Jude that some of these people are so blinded by the hatred that they hold for their sworn enemies that have purged themselves of the need to address stories with fair mindedness and the veil of impartiality!

  18. Antonio March 14, 2015 at 5:23 pm #

    One aspect of the hostility directed toward Sinn Fein south of the border by the media and the other political parties that Sinn Fein need to high light as much as possible is the fundamental hypocrisy of supporting Sinn Fein’s entry into Government north of the border but decrying that they are unfit for government south of the border.

    The establishment in the semi-republic are morally outraged that Sinn Fein have the audacity to try to get into government in their jurisdiction but lobbied for years to get Unionists into a power-sharing government with Sinn Fein in the Northern jurisdiction.

    Unionists actually suffered at the hands of republicans but they must be in coalition with republicans. Republicans inflicted exactly zero hardship on the people south of the border but they can not be in government south of the border.

    Double Standards me thinks

  19. Patrick Fahy March 14, 2015 at 5:55 pm #

    For a state that has suffered so much at the hands of immoral politicians bankers and chancers if every kind, Stephen Collins’ description of Sinn Fein in today’s Irish Times as ‘ a stain on Irish democracy’ lowers the Irish media to a new level. I’m finished with the Irish Times!

  20. Ryan March 14, 2015 at 5:57 pm #

    It is incredible how the media all over Ireland, including the 6 counties, are handling Mairia Cahill’s and Paudie McGahon allegations, they are handled as if they have been tried in a court of law and have been proven beyond all reasonable doubt, which is of course very far from the truth.

    The media campaign is getting so crude and obvious against Sinn Fein now that I think we can expect it to intensify as we come into 2016 and the Irish General Election comes along. No matter what happens to Sinn Fein, in Government or not (I think they will be, such is the discontent in the 26 counties with the Dream Team consisting of Enda and Joan) its goodbye to poor Enda, one way or another the current coalition will be booted out and a new coalition will replace it.

    Back to Mairia Cahill’s/Paudie McGahon’s allegations. The first spotlight show was broadcast around 6 months ago, has the alleged rapist been arrested yet? Has he even been located and questioned? And when will this happen? I haven’t even heard these questions being asked, never mind getting answers to them. The way the media is portraying Sinn Fein you’d think it was Gerry Adams that actually committed the alleged rapes or some other high ranking member of Sinn Fein. Mairia Cahill herself (who has me blocked on twitter, reason why I have no idea) rarely mentions the man who she alleges raped her in the first place, its all centred on Sinn Fein. Surely getting justice in a court of law and not engaging in a media witch hunt is more important?

    The IRA, whether their terrorists to you or heroes, are no different than any other militaristic organisation. There is cases every year of British Soldiers raping and assaulting women and men, does that mean the British Army are full of rapists? Well, there is currently 10 soldiers serving in the British Army on the sex offenders register. A British soldier pleaded guilty recently to raping a woman in Belfast city centre. So, is the British Army full of rapists? In my opinion, no. But if I applied Unionisms logic (of course, Unionism, that bastion of fairness and morality….) then the answer would be yes. Every organisation has its bad apples, rapists and paedophiles come from every race, occupation, nationality, age group, etc.

    I’m not use to writing long statements on this blog so I will end it off here with this! When is the spotlight team going to be doing an investigative show on Kincorra? You know that East Belfast Protestant orphanage that was used as a paedophile brothel for years by high ranking individuals, from westminister politicians to Leaders of Loyalist paramilitaries? That same Kincorra that was just recently denied being included in the Westminister paedophile investigation? I wonder how far up the political letter the cover up of Kincorra has gone over the past few decades! And yet Spotlight, Unionism and media all over the UK and Ireland are very silent on this…….How strange….

    • patrick fitzsimmons March 17, 2015 at 6:09 pm #

      Innocent until proven gulity comes to mind but i rather suspect that with Gerry Adams and his knack for self preservation stating he believes Paudie Mcgahon only means that the whole truth will come out.
      A British soldier charged with rape in Belfast only highlights the injustice done to the IRA sex abuse victims
      .The soldier was arrested, charged in a court of law and sent to prison.Not taken into custody by the army and exiled to another country eg the carry on raping.What is more in question here is in the way these cases have been handled by the IRA,what was the slogan, freedom,justice and peace.This week sees the search continue for those of the dissapeared that have still to be found.
      On Kinkora,i think its an absolute disgrace that it was not included in the historical child abuse investigations.Again the victims as always remain the victims and the perpetrators remain free.

  21. Iolar March 14, 2015 at 6:12 pm #

    Have they not got really bad news for you?

    Give RTÉ a break. Priorities must be established. It is clear there was no time to investigate the statement from the Secretary of State that a new inquest into the Loughall ambush may be “against the interests of national security,” or the fact that the Republic’s Justice Minister has ruled out a Commission of Investigation about the murder of Seamus Ludlow, on the grounds that there is nothing new or substantial which would warrant an inquiry in the public interest. It is clearly not in the public interest to examine the role of the security forces and politicians in the context of ongoing allegations about Kincora.

  22. Theresa Watson March 14, 2015 at 7:03 pm #


    Reading newspapers surely not!! ESP not working today?

  23. Endgame March 14, 2015 at 7:53 pm #

    Why is there no independent media standards watch dog like there is for advertising standards?

  24. geri meath March 14, 2015 at 10:21 pm #

    I am middle aged and resident in the 26 counties all my life.Since the hunger strikes of the 80’s I have taken a keen interest in what goes on up the road in the 6 counties.
    I would be regarded as middle class where I live.
    Nothing about the hysterical coverage directed towards Sinn Fein suprises me.
    Vested wealthy interests in the ‘Republic’ are terrified that the cosy set up which exists in this state might ,just might be threatened if a radical party which actually gets support from all those left behind by the top 30% of well heeled people living in the Killineys,Foxrocks,Montenottes etc, gains access to the levers of power .
    Gay Byrne actally stated he would emigrate!!!One reason to vote for Sinn Fein.
    Austerity has really hit the less well off and unfortunately for the Stephen Collins of this world they can vote too.They actually outnumber the people who lap up the Irish Times line .
    Whereas before emigration was a great ‘safety valve ‘for the establishment the young people who have left recently are better educated ,and Britain is no longer taking in large numbers of the less qualified and this group of people are quite substanial and likely to vote for Sinn Fein or the other left wing parties.
    On one occasion shortly after the 11 election Stephen Collins was disconcerted to see growing turn outs in working class urban areas.
    Forget Paudie McGahon(Regina DochertyT.D meath east wouldn’t cross the road to speak to him if he had made allegations aginst anyone but an IRA man),our tax rates might go up and our two tier health might be addressed so Stephen C might have to sit waiting for a consultant appointment beside somebody from Coolock!!!
    Denis O’Brien might have to pay more tax from his Maltese base.
    What would Paul Williams do if Sinn Fein had ministers in government,go to work with the British Sun.That’s about his level.
    The level of vitriol directed at Sinn Fein rises in direct correlation to their increased sucesses at the polls.
    Every effort is going to be made to block them coming into the election including drawing up ridiculous scenarios ie suggesting Lucinda will coalesce with what remains of the Labour party ,Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.If Michael Martin wants to finish off his party let him go ahead.
    For the downtrodden population roll on the next election !!!
    Most people are not fooled by crocodile political tears over sexual abuse victims, from the political establishment who forced Louise O’Keefe to go to the European Court to vindicate her rights following her abuse at the hands of a teacher in the Irish primary school system

    • Ryan March 15, 2015 at 5:04 pm #

      Gay Byrne said he’d emigrate if Sinn Fein got into Government in the south? If that’s true, then Sinn Fein will definitely be in the next Government, maybe even with a majority.

  25. Fe mhoid le saor March 15, 2015 at 11:55 am #

    In all capitalist societies commercial newspapers have political and economic agendas. That is a fact and it is naive not to recognize that.
    The commercial mass media are attacking Merry Adams because they want to replace him with Mary Lou Mac Donald because he has too much political baggage from the past and he is an obstacle to bringing Provisional Sinn Fein in ‘out of the cold’, PSF is becoming the new Fianna Fail. Fianna Fail came into office in 1932 on Left electoral platform, over the decades they moved incrementally to the Right. P SF are moving in that direction.

  26. michael c March 15, 2015 at 5:16 pm #

    The Sunday World reports today that the cops are to investigate Maria Cahill for harassment of Catherine McCartney.I see elsewhere that a very agressive poster on Slugger OTool may have gotten himself in trouble too last week.

    • sherdy March 15, 2015 at 7:18 pm #

      Couldn’t happen to a nicer chap!

  27. michael c March 16, 2015 at 3:40 pm #

    Sherdy, I always knew a lot of those anti SF trolls on Slugger O’Tool were “piss artists” but not even I thought they would live up to the name so literally!

  28. yobosayo March 17, 2015 at 8:10 am #

    Hey Jude, not the song, but you, dear sir. The media usually uses “alleged” so they won’t be sued for defamation. Don’t otherwise fathom your concern, since even Jarry says he believes Mr. McGahon. But if you must be concerned see ole Francie’s tweet here:

    Stay classy, Sinn Fein….

    By the way, re the retraction and deletion of his statement and tweet, you’ll understand Sinn Fein perfectly when you grasp the notion of preference constraint. Kindly like how La Mon and Enniskillen weren’t bad until some others were outraged, then comes the apology. With the apology directed not towards those killed and maimed and their family and friends, but instead their own support base. A lot like the Roman Catholic Church in this respect, meaning, no priest abused in the name of Catholicism just as no PIRA volunteer abused in the name of Irish republicanism. However, the coverup by both was done in the name of the cause.

    Now well and truly lastly, note the one Jarry comment in the box with his picture. Rich that, considering that a rather prime PIRA target were those very same police. Doesn’t get anymore Orwellian than that. Here, little Paddy, you go know and make your complaint to Constable Smith, but hope we don’t kill him first… In any sane country, the man would be aughed into a hiding under the rock, name change, plastic surgery, disgrace.

  29. Billy Pilgrim March 19, 2015 at 10:56 pm #


    ‘I have to ask, do you understand why people may have a problem with SF?’

    I think the point here is that the reason The Irish Times – not ‘people’ but The Irish Times specifically, and the major Dublin media generally, have a problem with SF, is that the major Dublin media are wholly-owned subsidiaries of the same deeply corrupt establishment SF’s rise threatens.

    When The Irish Times or any of the Indo stable attacks SF, we’re not seeing the courageous fourth estate keeping the public informed about the goings-on within a major centre of power (i.e. a large political party with aspirations to government).

    We’re seeing the ideological enforcement wing of Ireland’s vampiric elites making sure the public remains as disinformed as possible, and totally, irrationally terrified of change, no matter how dissatisfied they might be with the status quo.

    (But it could be worse. The UK is worse.)

    • Am Ghobsmacht March 19, 2015 at 11:14 pm #

      Not a bad point Billy, it’s wrong for me to assume that all the critics are singing from the same hymn sheet.