Anne Doyle and the Wexford Rising

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Why did successive governments and the Irish people of the south so desperately want the Troubles to end? Not too hard to answer that one, you say – because they didn’t want the violence spilling over into the twenty-six counties and besides, they abhorred the idea of lives on both sides being taken in the north.

The first reason – keep the violence in the north – isn’t particularly noble  but it’s understandable. Few want a conflict, in which they’re not involved, to escalate and suck them in. The second reason – a recoiling from the taking of human life – is noble. Violence or war, as Jeremy Corbyn said yesterday, should be the very last resort to solve a problem, not the first.

I found myself thinking about these things as I watched RTÉ’s former newsreader, Anne Doyle, feature last night in the first of an RTÉ series, Ireland’s Rising. In the course of the programme she went back to her home county of Wexford, where she talked to people and thought about the Easter Rising as it affected Enniscorthy and Ferns. For the most part the Rising was confined to Dublin. Enniscorthy was different – 300 Volunteers took over the town. They cut down trees and dug trenches to stop British military reinforcements reaching Dublin via Rosslare. The sons and grandchildren of those who had fought and some who had died fighting were interviewed. Anne sat in a wood where the Volunteers had sat, “steeled for the fight, ready to rise for Ireland”. A final sequence showed a series of Wexford children holding big photographs of their grandfathers or great-grandfathers who had fought and in some cases died, telling the camera how proud they felt to be related to them. “For five days, the people of Ferns had lived in an Irish republic” the voice-over told us.

Which raises three questions. One, wasn’t this almost exactly the kind of violence the people of the south spent thirty years disowning during our recent Troubles? Two, were the men and women of Wexford who participated in the Rising aiming to achieve a 26-county republic? And finally, is it not odd for people who detest violence in the north to then have their children hold images of family members who fought and/or died violently, and express their admiration for their courage?  Some people would and have described that kind of thing as child abuse.

 

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78 Responses to Anne Doyle and the Wexford Rising

  1. Emmet November 30, 2015 at 10:00 am #

    Good point. I see two possibilities. 1. They don’t really detest violence. 2 They don’t really support the actions of their relatives. Personally I think 1 is the most likely. You could also ask the same questions of people who wear Poppies: Do they support the use of violence?

    • jessica November 30, 2015 at 11:38 am #

      “You could also ask the same questions of people who wear Poppies: Do they support the use of violence?”

      To me it is becoming a symbol of british imperialism and more akin to the swastika where people in britain are becoming more terrified of not wearing it than wearing or for a specific reason. It is certainly becoming more militaristic as is the opinion in england in general.

      Corbyn is either going to fail miserably or make england a country worthy of respect for the first time in its bloody history.

      As we seen with the rise of Nazism, these movements are hard to stop so the odds are not in his favour but I wish him well.

  2. jessica November 30, 2015 at 10:18 am #

    Time changes everything.

    It is a lot easier to appreciate those who killed for independence long after the event than it is in real time when the reality and its consequences are more plainly visible. Out of sight out of mind as they say.

    The sacrifices of the PIRA should be recognised now by all on this island, but they wont be until enough time has passed and a new more confident society emerges.

    Oh yes, they will be in the future for certain and Gerry Adams will not be fully appreciated as a peacemaker until long after we are all gone.

    I am sure Michael Collins had his detractors also.

    Such is the world we live in.

    • neill November 30, 2015 at 12:01 pm #

      The sacrifices of the PIRA should be recognised now by all on this island, but they wont be until enough time has passed and a new more confident society emerges.

      You really do have a sick humour Jessica killing maiming and disappearing people is not a noble sacrifice whatsoever

      Oh yes, they will be in the future for certain and Gerry Adams will not be fully appreciated as a peacemaker until long after we are all gone

      Peacemaker good grief what next?

      • jessica November 30, 2015 at 12:56 pm #

        “You really do have a sick humour Jessica ”

        Oh, I am very serious neill.

        I am sure when they are laying poppies, at least I hope they aren’t thinking about the british forces planting bombs in dublin and monaghan, their shooting dead innocent women and children in ireland, or even the innocent women and children killed in their bombs in the middle east, but the same emotions could be quite rightly applied?

        But the reality is, it is human nature im afraid.

        • neill December 1, 2015 at 10:31 am #

          If you believe the IRA should be recognised for their “sacrifices” do you believe the Loyalist terrorists should be honoured for their “sacrifices”?

          • jessica December 1, 2015 at 12:01 pm #

            “If you believe the IRA should be recognised for their “sacrifices” do you believe the Loyalist terrorists should be honoured for their “sacrifices”?”

            They already are neill. Was there not a UDR statue erected in Lisburn?

            How working class loyalists whose leaders met with british state forces, took direction from them, did time on their behalf, feel about being called terrorists by their own community I could not comment on. But I have spoken to enough of them to know there is resentment and a feeling of betrayal or that they have been used and forgotten about which is festering at the moment and I do feel some empathy with them so yes. A peace process must be fully inclusive and be based on the whole truth.

            I don’t think britain has anything to lose from admitting that loyalists including the UVF were an integral part of the united kingdoms military offensive against the IRA for at least the earlier period of the troubles before things got out of hand and they were dropped and a policy of criminalisation was adopted instead.

            I also believe the british are cowards for hiding behind national security and refusing to allow a truth and reconciliation process for all victims here and as a result have no right to interfere in conflict anywhere. I don’t think we should not be honouring them, we should be distancing ourselves from them.

            Any bombs they drop in syria will not be in my name.

      • Wolfe tone November 30, 2015 at 2:39 pm #

        ‘Killing maiming and disappearing people’…….The people of Syria are shortly going to enjoy the treatment the British establishment is chomping at the bit to give them arnt they Neill? There’ll be lots of people killed,maimed and disappeared by those forces you salute every year with your poppy so much so they will make the IRA look like pussy cats. NATO will kill as many people as the IRA killed in 30yrs but they’ll do it in one day. Now that’s terrorism. Alas it doesn’t matter to racist supremacist who dies as long as it’s them doing the killing.

      • Jim.hunter November 30, 2015 at 2:51 pm #

        He.is.a.peacemaker.along.with.Martin.broth.great.men.

      • Ryan November 30, 2015 at 4:38 pm #

        “You really do have a sick humour Jessica killing maiming and disappearing people is not a noble sacrifice whatsoever ”

        Then you should ditch that poppy you wear Neill because the army your honouring did just that on a far, FAR larger scale throughout history than the IRA did. And what was their motives? Colonization? benefitting from the Atlantic Slave Trade? Stealing the natural resources belonging to other peoples? The very diamonds in the Crown many Unionists swear devotion and “loyalty” to were stolen from the likes of India and Africa.

        Wear that Poppy with pride Neill, wear it with pride….

  3. Iolar November 30, 2015 at 10:59 am #

    The concept of Ireland, an island with the potential for violence to spill from north to south was one that was and remains easy to foster in the popular imagination. We tend to hear less about organised violence that spilled over from one of our neighbouring islands. TG4 featured a documentary about land evictions in County Clare last evening, complete with battering ram to destroy houses with the able assistance of the police and military. Cattle and sheep were more profitable than human beings. It remains a fact that people were and are being systematically forced out of their homes and out of the country.

    The Civil Rights demands in 1967 posed difficult questions for the establishment north and south of the border. It was not just about votes, houses and jobs. It was about partition and equality issues in an unequal society.

    It was revealing that Ms Doyle stated she knew little about the events in 1916 during the programme. That in itself is a compliment to the intellectual ability of the leaders in 1916. Their analysis of the political, social and economic circumstances prevailing in Ireland was accurate. Executions and artillery were and remain impotent when it comes to attempting to destroy ideals about freedom and equality. One does not need to speculate what Connolly or Pearse would make of Ireland 2015, a country in which water protesters are criminalised, bankers are permitted to negotiate and the Gnomes of Zürich dictate policy.

  4. Jim.hunter November 30, 2015 at 11:51 am #

    Great story.jude.

  5. Bridget Cairns November 30, 2015 at 12:01 pm #

    I remember when members of the SDLP stated that they “were against all violence”. A very noble thought on the surface, however, we all know violence is only a symptom of injustice. I imagine that there are many in the South who would have had no problem with Hitler parading in O’Connell St. since their pacifist beliefs would not have permitted “violence” to stop his march. The question is “Is it morally right to use violence to right the wrongs, the injustices faced daily by millions or is the right thing to do, lie down & let the “fist” people carry on. Of course the hypocrisy of the Southern people is manifested in numerous ways, think refugees, emigration, abortion et al. Their violence was clearly “the right kind of violence” without victims. The government square that circle every day.

    • jessica November 30, 2015 at 1:27 pm #

      Only so much physical pressure can be applied before there is a physical response.
      Coupled with emotional responses these pressures are enhanced.
      Ghandi himself understood this.
      There can be a fine line between cowardice and violence and the Irish people have never been considered cowardly.

      The problem with conflict is once the cycle of violence starts, it takes even more courage to stop and more again to ensure it doesn’t recur. It will not be the Irish citizens in the north who will be lacking on this regard but it is time the south stepped up to the mark and show the same courage to ensure history does not repeat itself again on this island.

    • Sherdy November 30, 2015 at 5:16 pm #

      If the SDLP are against all violence, how could they support it by standing with the British warmongers each Poppy Day?

  6. billy November 30, 2015 at 12:51 pm #

    sectarian warfare wasnt happening in wexford it cant be compared.

    • jessica November 30, 2015 at 3:51 pm #

      “sectarian warfare wasnt happening in wexford it cant be compared.”

      Really, the wexford rising wasnt a result of sectarianism billy?
      What was it about then?
      Did they have a few too many drinks?

      There are a lot of similarities between the causes of the rising in 1798 and the late 1960s.

      The actions of the south in celebrating the 1916 rising could be said to have raised unionist tensions in the north resulting in the pogroms of the 1960s and the birth of the PIRA who were entitled to fight back.

      • Ryan November 30, 2015 at 7:12 pm #

        Its important to point out Jessica there were anti-Catholic pogroms in the 1920’s too, lead by firebrand, fundamentalist protestant preachers, the likes of whom Paisley would’ve grown up admiring. Indeed, there were instances where RIC officers were even shooting Catholic children dead in their beds.

        • jessica November 30, 2015 at 7:44 pm #

          “Its important to point out Jessica there were anti-Catholic pogroms in the 1920’s too, lead by firebrand, fundamentalist protestant preachers, the likes of whom Paisley would’ve grown up admiring. Indeed, there were instances where RIC officers were even shooting Catholic children dead in their beds.”

          Indeed Ryan.

          But what I will say, is thanks to the brave PIRA, there will be no more in the future here.

          They wouldn’t dare try it again.

          • neill December 1, 2015 at 4:35 pm #

            They wouldn’t dare try it again.

            Is that why at the end of the trouble Loyalists were killing more Catholic’s and the IRA were powerless to do anything about it?

          • jessica December 1, 2015 at 5:19 pm #

            “Is that why at the end of the trouble Loyalists were killing more Catholic’s and the IRA were powerless to do anything about it?”

            When loyalists were working with state forces, they were initially instructed to kill innocent Catholics to starve the IRA of support. It had the opposite effect but it was a strategy they continued long after the crown forces dropped them and were doing so right to the very end as you say.

            The IRA were not powerless to do likewise, they chose not to as that would have starved them of support in their own communities.

            Interesting that you seem impressed by them killing more Catholics. You truly are a brit neill

          • Wolfe tone December 1, 2015 at 7:56 pm #

            Jessica now and again ‘Neil’s ‘ mask slips on this blog. He often endeavours to appear moderate by condemning all ‘terrorism whether loyalist or republican’. But people with their eyes wide open can see those moderates within the unionist community do not view the UVF etc as terrorists(behind the scenes away from the cameras and all that of course). I have yet to recall the unionist community rallying to condemn the deliberate shooting of schoolboys,pregnant women or indeed pensioners. I have yet to witness banners such as ‘not in my name’ etc. Yes indeed they will gather for a peace rally whenever it involved an IRA action as that’s par for the course I.e they know who the enemy is.
            The whiff of arrogance in suggesting the IRA were powerless to counter unionists murdering Catholics is sad really. The IRA may have been powerless to halt all British agents killing Catholics but it is to be commended that they didn’t fall into the trap the British/unionists strived continuously to create, that is to match unionists random violence.

          • jessica December 2, 2015 at 9:27 am #

            “Jessica now and again ‘Neil’s ‘ mask slips on this blog.”

            I agree, but we need to understand why.

            Young protestants were brought up to believe catholics had two heads and were to be avoided as all are gun toting terrorists, even young gio would have come under that category.

            Many are actually anti violence, but nationalists/republicans/catholics have been dehumanised and they struggle to see their removal as more than chasing away hoods on a street corner.

            It will take generations to undo this so we need to be tolerant with opinions such as neills and sinn fein are acting admirably though I can see how it can be confused with weakness but that is the risk the IRA and Sinn Fein have taken to promote peace.

            There is also the constant promotion of british military as a positive force in the world which they have succumbed to.

            This could break up the UK as much as the EU question. The word would be a slightly better place if it did.

  7. michael c November 30, 2015 at 1:44 pm #

    Irish people north and south prefer battles when they are long over.I once asked a veteran Republican who was in charge in my area in the forties about one of his neighbours.My exact words were “they say X was a good rebel” ,to which the veteran replied “aye, he would have sung about it anyway”!. I am amazed by the number of people who claim to have saved Francis Hughes from the clutches of the crown forces for example but who would have been less than forthright in their support for Republicanism when things were at their hottest.It’s a long running joke that hundreds of thousands were in the GPO in 1916.

    • billy November 30, 2015 at 4:42 pm #

      sounds a bit like now..

  8. giordanobruno November 30, 2015 at 5:32 pm #

    As michael c says people prefer battles that are long over. Our own ‘troubles’ are still in living memory for too many of us.
    But maybe one reason for the difference in attitude Jude mentions is that the rising in Enniscorthy was, I believe,virtually bloodless, and so much easier to celebrate.
    Would that the PIRA had followed that example.
    Or even if they had restricted themselves to direct action against the British Army, (they were the ones in uniform lads) rather than shopkeepers and census takers, they might have come closer to claiming a just war.
    Their ‘sacrifice’ should never be talked about without also talking about the lives they took, their victims who had no choice in their own sacrifice.

    • jessica November 30, 2015 at 7:37 pm #

      “As michael c says people prefer battles that are long over. ”
      I wouldn’t disagree gio, there are how many thousand marches each year over a battle in 1690.

      “But maybe one reason for the difference in attitude Jude mentions is that the rising in Enniscorthy was, I believe,virtually bloodless, and so much easier to celebrate.”

      You are either very innocent gio or very naïve. Risings are born out of desparation, and Wexford was no different. It was against sectarian oppression and was far from bloodless im afraid.

      I also don’t agree with the term “celebration”, that sounds like triumphalism and is more what we are used to from unionists around the 12th.

      There is only so much human beings can take before they have to fight or give up. The actions of the brave Wexford rebels should be remembered and commemorated, but not celebrated. The actions coming out of generations of bloody oppression resulting in good people driving pikes through human beings and leaving their bodies on display is not something I want to rejoice over. Each small victory such as the temporary freeing of Wexford town was a step towards eventual freedom that this nation deserves and has yet to fully achieve.

      “Their ‘sacrifice’ should never be talked about without also talking about the lives they took, their victims who had no choice in their own sacrifice.”

      We should consider every life lost equally, every life experience wasted, every hurt caused, over oppression inflicted by english rule in ireland, and that very much includes republicans. Lest we have learned nothing.

      “Or even if they had restricted themselves to direct action against the British Army, (they were the ones in uniform lads) rather than shopkeepers and census takers, they might have come closer to claiming a just war.”

      Easy to mock gio, but your words have no substance. It is easy to write the word oppression, but you have no idea what it means. You don’t understand what a cycle of violence is until you have been right in the middle of the mayhem. Victims making more victims.

      The only victims I choose to respect are the ones who are prepared to make sure there will be no more victims in their name. Fail that, and you are not worth talking about.

      • giordanobruno December 1, 2015 at 4:39 pm #

        jessica
        I was referring specifically to the rising in Enniscorthy as mentioned by Jude.
        It was my understanding that there were only minor casualties, but maybe I have it wrong.
        If many had been killed including locals then it might not be remembered with pride as Jude says.
        Also, I think it reasonable to argue that many nationalists would have felt more sympathy toward the PIRA campaign had they targeted British forces only, instead of choosing soft targets such as local businesses or off duty part time RUC men, in their homes with their families watching.
        If you consider that mockery well maybe so, but they deserve to be mocked, if for nothing else, for thinking they could somehow bomb us all into a United Ireland.

        • jessica December 1, 2015 at 5:37 pm #

          “Also, I think it reasonable to argue that many nationalists would have felt more sympathy toward the PIRA campaign had they targeted British forces only, instead of choosing soft targets such as local businesses or off duty part time RUC men, in their homes with their families watching.”

          The conflict wasn’t a popularity contest gio but once again I note you don’t seem to mind the innocent people killed by the british forces you so favourably mention.
          The RUC reserves were used for arms training as a precursor for joining loyalist paramilitary groups. Recruits were told to sign up.
          It doesn’t really matter what you or I think about it though, we are not speaking from the same experiences and therefore have differing views that are unlikely to reconcile.
          But if the british forces are good enough to be officially commemorated here, then so are PIRA. Or would you disagree with that also gio?

          • giordanobruno December 1, 2015 at 11:05 pm #

            jessica
            I’m not commemorating anyone,I have made no reference to commemorating them
            To point out that part time RUC men were attacked in their family homes is no more than the truth and it does not mean I view them favourably as you imply, though I do certainly view their families as entirely innocent.
            I am pointing out reasons in my view why the PIRA campaign might be viewed differently from the action specifically mentioned in Jude’s piece,namely in Enniscorthy.
            It is a fairly narrow point and I was hoping you might address it without whataboutery.
            Would the PIRA campaign have been more acceptable within the nationalist community had they restricted themselves to military targets?

          • jessica December 2, 2015 at 9:15 am #

            “It is a fairly narrow point and I was hoping you might address it without whataboutery.”

            It was yourself that introduced the whataboutery when you brought up selective incidents of the conflict which was not one sided, though that is not the impression you portray.

            You are, like a true brit, attempting to excuse or turn a blind eye to killing in this case in the wexford rebellions, ignoring the actual atrocity of that conflict and even selecting which incident best suits your point of view rather than look at the actual causes which led to it and accepting that bad things happened and them deciding whether you think they should be remembered as brave men or nasty killers.

            The point I believe Jude was making was there is similarity with more recent troubles which some as yourself find less acceptable and are going all out to sweeten up one conflict and demonising one side in another, both of which are wrong.

            Is the real crime the atrocity that takes place during conflict or the sectarianism and abuse of power that enforces desperation to the point conflict is unavoidable?

            The PIRA campaign was and is not acceptable to me, but I do accept it was unavoidable and therefore refuse to turn my back on those who participated no matter what terrible actions occurred as a consequence and no one will convince me otherwise.

            I see every victim of the conflicts in ireland as innocent including loyalist gunmen who pulled the triggers killing innocent catholics as neill pointed out. I accept that will not be everyone’s opinion but it is mine.

            Who will be responsible for the innocent casualties in syria, the RAF pilots who pull the trigger or the despots who send him there brainwashed through military academia?

            We are not in disagreement over the wrongness of killing, though I don’t agree with you that violence is ever acceptable and you should not sugar-coat any conflict to make a point, but i can understand how conflict becomes unavoidable which is a concept you struggle with but which is also understandable without first hand experience.

          • giordanobruno December 2, 2015 at 10:39 am #

            jessica
            It was actually Jude who introduced the whataboutery in comparing the events of the rising in Enniscorthy to the deeds of the PIRA. I was responding to his question.
            What were the casualties in Enniscorthy? That is my point,if you want to address it.
            You are attributing a lot of opinions to me which I do not have, so I will leave this one here.

    • Argenta November 30, 2015 at 9:07 pm #

      Well said, Gio as always.As per usual ,many on this blog are attempting to retrospectively justify some of the worst excesses of the I R A campaign.Two particular examples come to mind namely the lady census taker(which you mention) and the human car bomb killing Paddy Gillespie in Derry.

      • Jude Collins December 1, 2015 at 9:25 am #

        Can you point out a couple of examples of the ‘many on this blog’ who are trying to justify the killing of the census-taking woman or the death of Paddy Gillespie, Argenta?

      • jessica December 1, 2015 at 10:29 am #

        “Well said, Gio as always.As per usual ,many on this blog are attempting to retrospectively justify some of the worst excesses of the I R A campaign.Two particular examples come to mind namely the lady census taker(which you mention) and the human car bomb killing Paddy Gillespie in Derry”

        No, I am pointing out a glaring imbalance in equality.

        There is an orchestrated campaign to vilify the PIRA struggle which they never asked for, and at the same time not only promote the british forces but to brow beat everyone into supporting their killing sprees through poppy harassment and media vilification of anyone opposing their militaristic views such as Corbyn is currently experiencing.

        I say you cannot support british state killings here or overseas without talking about the innocent victims, past present and future don’t forget.

        The british are selective in who they see as victims and gio may well have bought into it.

        But we don’t have to buy into it. If commemorations and poppy funds in support of british state terror are acceptable and indeed imposed, then we need to likewise support those from our own communities who gave just as much otherwise we are allowing ourselves be subject to state bullying and are acting out of cowardice ignoring one injustice but tolerating another.

        As for retrospectively. I supported the IRA before the GFA, why would I not support them now? I don’t want to see any victims and fully support peace. I accept there were many terrible acts carried out on both sides and would like to see the british have the courage to own up to the true extent of the actions both in uniform and out of it as well as the true extent they used working class loyalists as tools in a very dirty conflict.

        The more truth comes out the better I say.

    • Virginia December 1, 2015 at 4:45 am #

      Well written.

  9. michael c November 30, 2015 at 5:41 pm #

    Aye Billy,only now there are a handful of loons and their supporters still making a laughing stock of themselves pretending to be conducting a “war”!

    • jessica November 30, 2015 at 7:58 pm #

      “Aye Billy,only now there are a handful of loons and their supporters still making a laughing stock of themselves pretending to be conducting a “war”!”

      Well, with you and billy around, we can hardly deny there are loons about.

    • billy November 30, 2015 at 8:36 pm #

      no not themunns,ones like you described about letting on they were in the gpo only now its still in living memory.

  10. Perkin Warbeck November 30, 2015 at 9:29 pm #

    Funny old place Wexico,all the same, Esteemed Blogmeister.

    It’s the county where the last Irish wolf was reported shot and left safely dead on the slopes of Mount Leinster in 1786. Or maybe it was even at the foot of Mount Leinster or some silent place by the streams of Bunclody where all pleasures do meet.

    Then a number of years ago one found oneself being chauffered in the general hinterland of Mount L when out of the corner of one’s little eye one spied a sign on a farm gate with a message beginning with W- Wolf Cubs for Sale !

    -Rochester !

    -Yeah, boss, what wrong wid you now?

    -Oh, were I at the moss house,where the birds do increase.

    -To be a-drinking strong liquor in the height of thy cheer, boss?

    -You got it, bro.

    Funny old station all the same, RTE. During the height of the Dirty Thirty Year War the station enthusiastically applied the muzzle of Section 31 to the dogs of war. Or at least the dogs deemed rabid by the Veterinary Surgeon General, Dr. Conor Thumbsrews O’BrIen.

    Now, we seem to have them doing a rerun of the Twilight Zone.Bearing in mind that the French for twilight is: ‘entre le loup et le chien’ / ‘between the wolf and the dog’. They are doing this by giving former news anchor Ann Doyle a free leash to return to her native Ferns to see what the Easter Beasties were up to down there back in 1916,

    As a news anchor she always gave the impression that she was weary of dealing with the bankers and the canker of corruption which brought the first and last Celtic tiger to an untimely end. And that she had a hankering to get out of the Donnybrook studio and deal with the rancour mongers now that the liberating Vivisection 31 is at last in effect.

    Of course, RTE has always shown a particular interest in The Boys of Wexford. Not least those who fight with heart and hand to break in twain the galling chain. The name of Billy Walsh was on everyone’s lips as recently as a mere month ago, mainly as a result of RTE soapboxing about the lack of respect the I.A,B.A.had shown to their head coach.

    Now that Billy has departed the scene, things have settled down to normality once again. And RTE continue to show ‘respect’ to the boxers of Ireland by totally ignoring their national championships.

    No doubt they have the card of balance up their sleeveens, oops, sleeve., as a counter weight to the Ann Doyle carte-blanche. And have already in mind the A-list actor to play the part of ‘The Man who shot Liberty Balance on location’.

    That would be none other than the man who is quoted in a recent biography of stating some years ago ‘ of his craving for some sort of sabbatical in which I would like to write a biography of (gasp) someone like John Redmond’.

    And who better than the former head honcho of Heinz, Sir A.J.F. O’Reilly (for it is he!) to comment knowledgeably on Mustard Gas Redmond than the one-time dreamer up of the following telly commercial in the US of A:

    – ‘Heinz Mustard has brought his new girlfriend Heinz Yellow Mustard to the BBQ. Just as he’s reassuring her that everyone loves her his ex-mustard shows up and has a few nasty words to say. She’s just jealous that she doesn’t taste as good as Heinz Yellow Mustard’.

    And as Mustard Gas Redmond was of course a Yellowbelly himself the programme will be shot (in the pacific Ireland Fund meaning of that phrase), in the interest of both liberty and balance down in Wexford. With Tones decked out in a sombrero for laughs, on account of his global reputation of a being a hilariously funny after dinner speaker sort of thingy.

    Besides senor, from what one hears, he (sadly) could do with a little after dinner dinero these days.

  11. neill December 1, 2015 at 6:53 pm #

    “Is that why at the end of the trouble Loyalists were killing more Catholic’s and the IRA were powerless to do anything about it?”

    When loyalists were working with state forces, they were initially instructed to kill innocent Catholics to starve the IRA of support. It had the opposite effect but it was a strategy they continued long after the crown forces dropped them and were doing so right to the very end as you say.

    The IRA were not powerless to do likewise, they chose not to as that would have starved them of support in their own communities.

    Interesting that you seem impressed by them killing more Catholics. You truly are a brit neill
    And you my dear support terrorism!

    • Jude Collins December 1, 2015 at 7:03 pm #

      Terrorism, my dear neill, is a methodology, not a philosophy…

    • jessica December 1, 2015 at 7:30 pm #

      “And you my dear support terrorism!”

      No I don’t neill.

      You on the other hand would use loyalist murders to make a point when it suits you, then i the next breath condemn them as terrorists to be locked away.
      As I said, typical brit.

      • neill December 2, 2015 at 10:09 am #

        No I was using it to discredit your usually feeble arguments.

    • Ryan December 1, 2015 at 11:15 pm #

      Remind us who you are honouring by wearing the Poppy Neill?….

    • jessica December 2, 2015 at 8:36 am #

      “And you my dear support terrorism!”

      Similar insults being levied today I see against anyone considering voicing opposition to the proposed bombing campaign in syria.

      Still, the UK have a lot to lose financially if the russians keep assad in power which will grow their customer base for weapons of mass destruction in the middle east. The innocent victims in waiting can rest assured that their deaths will help boost UK sales and if assad can be removed there is potential for billions in sales of their brimstone missiles.

      Yes, it is much more honourable to support british military campaigns than the PIRA who were defending their own communities.

      We should be ashamed to be still under english occupation.
      PIRA have played their part, it is up to the southern state to get off the fence and join with scotland and wales and put an end to the english right wing dictatorship that is modern day UK.

  12. Dickens December 1, 2015 at 8:20 pm #

    Thought this article may be of interest to the usual suspects who bleat on about every kind of Terrorism except that which is carried out by the most powerful of all Terrorists.
    States are what I refer to-TERRORIST STATES.

    Not for the squeamish. Two pictures within the article say it all about how ISIS came about.

    http://bsnews.info/how-to-make-a-monster-imperialism-and-the-islamic-state/

    Great quote at the very end.

    This article can also shed light into the darkest of brain cells (THOSE WHO REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WHICH IS STARING THEM IN THE FACE) as to how the world really works-as opposed to reading about it in the “news”paper or in other parts of the mainstream media-

    https://truthaholics.wordpress.com/2015/11/04/warcrimes-study-us-regime-has-killed-20-30-million-since-wwii/

    D

  13. neill December 2, 2015 at 10:08 am #

    Jessica now and again ‘Neil’s ‘ mask slips on this blog. He often endeavours to appear moderate by condemning all ‘terrorism whether loyalist or republican’. But people with their eyes wide open can see those moderates within the unionist community do not view the UVF etc as terrorists(behind the scenes away from the cameras and all that of course). I have yet to recall the unionist community rallying to condemn the deliberate shooting of schoolboys,pregnant women or indeed pensioners. I have yet to witness banners such as ‘not in my name’ etc. Yes indeed they will gather for a peace rally whenever it involved an IRA action as that’s par for the course I.e they know who the enemy is.
    The whiff of arrogance in suggesting the IRA were powerless to counter unionists murdering Catholics is sad really. The IRA may have been powerless to halt all British agents killing Catholics but it is to be commended that they didn’t fall into the trap the British/unionists strived continuously to create, that is to match unionists random violence.

    Unlike Jessica I have never supported violence or wished any harm on the Catholic community. The problem you have is that you wish to portray the IRA as a benevolent organisation that was fighting a just campaign they did neither. So do get annoyed when people point this out to you.

    • jessica December 2, 2015 at 11:54 am #

      “Unlike Jessica I have never supported violence or wished any harm on the Catholic community. The problem you have is that you wish to portray the IRA as a organisation that was fighting a just campaign they did neither. So do get annoyed when people point this out to you.”

      IRA members can be as benevolent as any other. I know many who wouldn’t pass you in the street and are a joy to be around.
      I am sure there are benevolent people within the british army just as there are those who join to conflict harm.

      And the IRA did not fight a just campaign, they were born out of necessity, misrule, sectarianism, desperation and grew out of militant british aggression and miscalculation for which many lives were ruined. Simple people who when forced upon them had the tenacity to take on the british army and proved yet again the determination that ireland will not stand by and allow english misrule in ireland to go unpunished.

      • neill December 2, 2015 at 3:00 pm #

        Well if you lie down with dogs there is a high likelihood that you will pick up fleas eh Jessica?

        And the IRA did not fight a just campaign, they were born out of necessity, misrule, sectarianism, desperation and grew out of militant british aggression and miscalculation for which many lives were ruined. Simple people who when forced upon them had the tenacity to take on the british army and proved yet again the determination that ireland will not stand by and allow english misrule in ireland to go unpunished.

        Ah the Irish Americans must love you Jessica. So lets get this straight once and for all Jessica do you believe the IRA were the good guys a simple yes or no would suffice.

        • jessica December 2, 2015 at 6:49 pm #

          “So lets get this straight once and for all Jessica do you believe the IRA were the good guys a simple yes or no would suffice.”

          There are no good guys and bad guys in conflict situations neill. Conflict is murder and mayhem, and brings out the very worst there is in humanity.

          It ruins lives, there is nothing good about it whatsoever.

    • Wolfe tone December 2, 2015 at 1:17 pm #

      Neill, I ain’t annoyed at all. But by your utterings it seems you are more concerned on how the army is viewed than I am. In fact the amount of times you give off about the IRA implies ‘one doth protest too much’. They sure do take up a lot of your thoughts for one who regularly dismisses them and their ideology.

      • neill December 2, 2015 at 3:02 pm #

        Did the army make mistakes they sure did nobody argues about that anymore the question is if the IRA were proper republicans and democrats as we often here why didn’t they convince their unionist neighbours or was killing unionists far too much fun?

        • Wolfe tone December 2, 2015 at 3:42 pm #

          ‘why didn’t they convince their unionist neighbours……’ Me thinks you will find the introduction of the British army and their dirty tricks muddied the waters somewhat on that one. Check out KItsons manual on how the Brit army operates and then get back to me. I have a feeling you have read it anyway.

          • neill December 2, 2015 at 4:45 pm #

            So if my dad was a member of the Police Force or a builder who built police stations or who did work for the state would he have been a legitimate target in your eyes Wolfie?

          • jessica December 2, 2015 at 8:16 pm #

            “legitimate target ”

            In conflict situations, targets are the decision of commanding officers.

            The opinions of the soldier given the unfortunate order is irrelevant. That does not make it right or offer any justification. It is an unfortunate reality and the same code the british army which you support operate under.

            Brits criticising the actions of the IRA are hypocritical. The IRA operated purely to British military tactics and were initially trained by ex SBS personnel.

          • Wolfe tone December 2, 2015 at 7:52 pm #

            Come on Neill that’s entrapment lol. If my dad was building torture centres for ISIS or policing for ISIS you would be demanding a drone strike at least on him. After all he’s contributing to the ISIS war machine isn’t he? He may only have just been trying to feed his family and all that but……..

        • jessica December 2, 2015 at 6:26 pm #

          “Did the army make mistakes they sure did nobody argues about that anymore the question is if the IRA were proper republicans and democrats as we often here why didn’t they convince their unionist neighbours or was killing unionists far too much fun?”

          The British state forces decided to carry out the Dublin Monaghan bombings to send a message to the southern state. It was not a mistake.

          They decided to kill civilians and attempt to blame it on the IRA, even using bombs and thompson rifles in place of their standard issue weapons. These weren’t mistakes neill, they were conscious decisions.

          The british army instructed loyalists to kill innocent Catholics to turn the population against them. This was not a mistake.

          The IRA is civilian revolutionary movement born out of political oppression and will rise when it needs to, to defend the irish people from the english forces of occupation for as long as they remain in Ireland. There is nothing fun about it.

  14. neill December 2, 2015 at 10:14 am #

    “Jessica now and again ‘Neil’s ‘ mask slips on this blog.”

    I agree, but we need to understand why.

    Young protestants were brought up to believe catholics had two heads and were to be avoided as all are gun toting terrorists, even young gio would have come under that category.

    Many are actually anti violence, but nationalists/republicans/catholics have been dehumanised and they struggle to see their removal as more than chasing away hoods on a street corner.

    It will take generations to undo this so we need to be tolerant with opinions such as neills and sinn fein are acting admirably though I can see how it can be confused with weakness but that is the risk the IRA and Sinn Fein have taken to promote peace.

    There is also the constant promotion of british military as a positive force in the world which they have succumbed to.

    This could break up the UK as much as the EU question. The word would be a slightly better place if it did.

    You supported the IRA through most of the campaign and then you have you are surprised when many unionists treat you with less than the respect that you think you deserve.

    • jessica December 2, 2015 at 11:39 am #

      “You supported the IRA through most of the campaign and then you have you are surprised when many unionists treat you with less than the respect that you think you deserve.”

      I expect nothing from unionists and have never made this about myself.

      Unionism is another word for supporting the continued english occupation in Ireland and that leads to division and the supremacist attitude which has for centuries led to abuse of power repeatedly resulting in conflict.

      I support all of the irish movements who took up arms against english occupation of my country prior to the GFA. Now there is a mechanism for removing english rule in Ireland peacefully, there is no justification for armed actions but the struggle will continue.

      The onus will now fall on the southern state to live up to its obligations towards its irish citizens living in the north. There is no longer any IRA to hide behind their failures in this regard.

      We are no longer nationalist / republicans in another Ireland, but irish citizens living in ireland

  15. neill December 3, 2015 at 9:10 am #

    “legitimate target ”

    In conflict situations, targets are the decision of commanding officers.

    The opinions of the soldier given the unfortunate order is irrelevant. That does not make it right or offer any justification. It is an unfortunate reality and the same code the british army which you support operate under.

    Brits criticising the actions of the IRA are hypocritical. The IRA operated purely to British military tactics and were initially trained by ex SBS personnel.

    Come on Neill that’s entrapment lol. If my dad was building torture centres for ISIS or policing for ISIS you would be demanding a drone strike at least on him. After all he’s contributing to the ISIS war machine isn’t he? He may only have just been trying to feed his family and all that but……..

    Amusing and telling you couldn’t say yes or no

    • jessica December 3, 2015 at 9:34 am #

      “Amusing and telling you couldn’t say yes or no”

      Not nearly as telling as you finding it amusing, but it is what we have come to expect from unionists. They did initiate the conflict after all

      • Jude Collins December 3, 2015 at 9:38 am #

        Jessica – please do watch tendency to abuse, particularly whole groups of people…Stick to the argument.

      • neill December 3, 2015 at 1:38 pm #

        Amusing in the sense you didn’t answer the question.

        They did initiate the conflict after all

        Using your logic if we started it the unionist community then deserved what it got?

        Which would make sense if you forget about the fact that the IRA was every bit as lethal at killing Catholics as Loyalists were. Which begs the question why did innocent Catholics have to die at the hands of the IRA when as you said the conflict was started by Unionists?

        • Wolfe tone December 3, 2015 at 3:17 pm #

          ‘the fact that the IRA was every bit as lethal at killing Catholics as loyalists were.’ Which begs another obvious question……why is the narrative being spun that the IRA was sectarian? The KItsons handbook has the answer to that one too.

        • jessica December 3, 2015 at 3:31 pm #

          “Amusing in the sense you didn’t answer the question.”
          You mean I didn’t give the answer you wanted to hear, I did answer it as best I could.

          “Using your logic if we started it the unionist community then deserved what it got?”

          No, I don’t hold the unionist community responsible at all.
          I hold the british state and england in particular responsible for the conflicts in Ireland. They have no justification to occupy this island, certainly not in the 21st Century.

          “Which would make sense if you forget about the fact that the IRA was every bit as lethal at killing Catholics as Loyalists were. Which begs the question why did innocent Catholics have to die at the hands of the IRA when as you said the conflict was started by Unionists?”

          People die in conflict. That is why it should be avoided at all costs.

          When conflict breaks out, often the causes are forgotten and overtaken by the atrocities that come with it, which starts a spiral of violence which can be difficult to break as the combatants retaliate against one another and as more and more dead comrades are buried, it becomes harder and harder to accept they might have died in vain.

          The questions you ask neill, do not deserve a flippant or undignified response and I hope you do not truly believe that anyone in any community here who died deserved what they got?

    • Wolfe tone December 3, 2015 at 11:47 am #

      I think I have answered you Neill but if you are striving for more detailed answers perhaps you should read me a caution beforehand lol.

      • neill December 3, 2015 at 1:39 pm #

        LOL Wolfe!

  16. jessica December 3, 2015 at 9:44 am #

    “Jessica – please do watch tendency to abuse, particularly whole groups of people…Stick to the argument.”

    I do try Jude, but if you could help me by pointing out where I abused a whole group of people so I am clear where I went wrong I will try harder

    • Jude Collins December 3, 2015 at 11:19 am #

      Sorry, Jessica – I know I sound like a tight-arsed schoolmaster. You made some dismissive remark about unionists – it’s a bit gratuitous to brand a major grouping in society. I’m trying to get people to focus on the argument, rather than simply critical comment. I don’t mean to single you out or anything of that nature – your contribution to the blog is enormous – grma…

      • jessica December 3, 2015 at 12:09 pm #

        No, in hindsight you are quite correct.
        While ignoramus mockery is what I have come to expect from unionist leaders such as gregory campbell etc…
        It is indeed wrong to suggest all unionists are on the same level.

        You would make a great schoolmaster Jude. 🙂

        • Jude Collins December 3, 2015 at 12:28 pm #

          Thank you, Jessica. I like to think I was…once…

        • giordanobruno December 3, 2015 at 5:40 pm #

          jessica

          “In arguing too, the parson own’d his skill,
          For e’en though vanquish’d he could argue still;
          While words of learned length and thund’ring sound
          Amazed the gazing rustics rang’d around
          And still they gaz’d and still the wonder grew,
          That one small head could carry all he knew.
          Us gazing rustics are constantly amazed by the contents of Jude’s head!

          • Jude Collins December 3, 2015 at 7:07 pm #

            I thought you were well-used to it by now, gio…

          • jessica December 3, 2015 at 7:46 pm #

            “Us gazing rustics are constantly amazed by the contents of Jude’s head!”

            I can just imagine what it was like getting work past him.
            I bet he was a stickler for grammar.
            I know a few ex teachers who are also excellent wordsmiths

            I used to write poetry myself many decades ago. I will have to give it another shot one day 🙂

      • neill December 3, 2015 at 1:46 pm #

        Has somebody taken over Jude?

        • Jude Collins December 3, 2015 at 2:50 pm #

          Puzzled, neill: are you asking if someone has taken me over, or if someone has taken over from me? The answer in both cases is no.

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