Non-surprise of the day: the entire unionist contingent at Westminster will tonight vote in favour of British war planes bombing Syria (forget ‘air-strikes’, it’s bombing). This will inevitably result in the killing of not just members of IS or other armed groups but innocent Syrian civilians. Both the UUP and the DUP will lend their support to this action.
When the Omagh bomb exploded, killing twenty-nine people, Ken Magennis of the UUP declared “This is a dreadful crime against humanity”. The leader of the UUP, David Trimble, said: “Make no mistake about it, this bomb would not have been made or been detonated if Sinn Féin-IRA had handed over its explosives and weapons”. David Trimble is no longer leader of the UUP but maybe a word to Mike Nesbitt and present UUP politicians: Make no mistake about it, the bombs that will fall on Syria killing unknown numbers of Syrian civilians would not have fallen if parties like the UUP had not given the slaughter their backing.
Peter Robinson, present leader of the DUP, responded to the Omagh bomb by accusing the NIO who, he said, “spawned the process of buying off the terrorists and encouraging the gun”. Well, Peter, when your party’s MPs , led by Nigel Dodds, shore up David Cameron’s insistence on bombing Syria, your party will have spawned the process of encouraging further barbarism in the Middle East.
Omagh is my home town. A distant cousin of mine died in the blast. Part of the horror and disgust expressed by politicians at the time came from the numbers involved – twenty-nine innocent people, including a woman pregnant with twins. Does anyone in the DUP or the UUP doubt that more than twenty-nine innocent Syrians will die from bombs which their party members will tonight help prime?
There are none so blind as those who will not see
Bombing people from the safety of the Commons bar seems very cowardly and immoral.
I would change the word seems, to is.I really despair,to think that these people can make such massive decisions,and they usually vote FOR the bomb,muppets.
Nail on the head Jude. I expect nothing else from double standard puppy dog unionists who live in thrall of everything they think is British. Right wing to the very end and can no longer hold any moral standing they think they have when it comes to violence. (As if there was never any unionist violence eh).
Of course you could take the counter view that isnt it strange that so many people on here are against bombing but just a little while ago had no problems with bombs going off and killing people….when it suited them.
No,you could.
“when it suited them”
Unionism could write the textbook on that one Neill.
That’s very rich coming from a Republican.
When the fall out from the bombings visits britain – as it most definitely will – the people who voted the bombings ie Cameron and his merry men will be protected by special services and it will be the general public (of whom almost 60% are against) that will be in the most danger – the DUP AND THE UUP have now brought the streets of the North of Ireland to the attention of Issis
If only the IRA had the backing of the US. Then they could’ve called on their military to use drone strikes and hellfire missiles. That’s the proper way to fight a war isn’t it? The stupid IRA would’ve been the good guys if they had just obtained the use of ‘smart bombs’. Unionists would’ve applauded their efforts to avoid collateral damage and all that don’t ya think?
I wonder what Dr Haass would make of the current embroglio? Political unionism bereft of diplomatic skills walks in and out of Stormont leaving the Tories to implement welfare cuts while flags and parades now fall within the context of being bound over to keep the peace. Unionist representatives now want a walk on part on the international stage in order to bring peace to Syria.
Mr Cameron has been found wanting in matters diplomatic, given his reference to “terrorist sympathisers.” Would he apply the same label to members of the Military Reaction Force? A BBC Panorama programme provided evidence of a member of the force boasting about murder. How would the British Prime Minister label those who were “cheese processors” and “butchers” yet still had time to engage in extra curricular activities as members or associates of the UDR? I trust that Mr Cameron will act on the De Silva Report and ensure that appropriate vetting procedures are in place for potential submariners in the anticipated base for Lisburn.
I guess it is not cricket to ask about the delay associated with the Chilcot Report into the war in Iraq. Work on the report commenced in 2007 and has cost in the region of £10 million to date. Perhaps some of the Labour MP’s who are keen to be associated with the ongoing bombing in the Middle East will get around to addressing questions about weapons of mass destruction at a convenient time in the future. The current blood lust will deprive many of a future. It is now evident however, who actually controls weapons of mass destruction, a sobering thought during the ‘festive season’.
Hi Jude .It’s like I said in passing yesterday on the great abortion debate….. There is much talk about the sanctity of life …of the human being and then with the blink of an eye they want to bomb the blazes out of Syria and kill babies and people hand- over -fist. So where does all that morality go ? Surely if it’s wrong to abort unborn babies , it is also wrong to shoot and bomb the hell out of Syrians? It’s obvious that if the killing suits an agenda the rules can easily be re-written. I personally cannot see much difference between this proposed action by Cameron and the same old pantomime that Blair went through before he blagged his way into war with Iraq, only a handful of years ago.We all know how that ended, don’t we?
Remember all that claptrap about Weapons Of Mass Destruction [WMD]?..Remember how imaginary they turned out to be ? I can’t see how bombing will somehow kill off something as nebulous as ISIS anyway.It seems the kind of mad grouping that could survive throughout the world without any bricks and mortar base.A sort of Amazon shop of terror with no high street presence, linked only by the web. Bombing might make a lot of politicians feel very good and they might think they are proving to the world that they are not the impotent imbeciles we think most of them are, but I’d say we’ll be looking back on this “super-stunt” much as we’ll look back on our own Hokey -Cokey mob here …in wonderment that they thought their actions would actually prove effective or will ever stop individuals or small groups of delusional killers from committing suiicide in western cities. They are not much different than the school-killers that pop up in American cities on a regular basis.
It is typical of unionist politicians to try to solve a problem with a large club.Some of these would have bombed the Republic of Ireland or have built watchtowers and walls along our own borders instead of trying to address the problems .
Jude, sometimes your innocence amazes me!
How many loyalists have been or will be killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia, Syria, or possibly next target Iran?
Answer – none. So no problem for unionists.
And if a few hundred thousand innocents are ‘collateral damage’, well, they’re not Prods, so what of it!
Neill don’t assume that all nationalists support the use of bombs and bullets. That’s the archetypal unionist view right there, lump them all together for they’re all rogues and renegades anyway, aren’t they?
Completely correct Jude.Dodds and Co. have to show their Loyalist supporters that killing Muslims is good and they (the Loyalists)can burn cars, intimidate anybody even slightly coloured as they are all muslims anyway!!
I think we have to get this ubiquitous charade into perspective…..12 other countries are already bombing Syria into the stone age…Does anyone believe that the actions of the ” Geriatric Bulldog ” , insignificant now in it’s post imperialist age,will make one iota of difference…..except to help propel us irreversibly towards WW111 ? …..ISIS was created by America and Israel with the connivance of Britain ,France etc in their quest to destabilize and plunder every oil-rich Arab country ( except those bastions of democracy and human rights…Saudi,Qatar,Kuwait etc ) ! Unquestionably ,Turkey and Israel are buying the oil from ISIS ,with the son of Turkish President Erdogan being implicated in this murky trade and this even being cited as a reason for the downing of the Russian Su-24 jet. Russia is making substantive inroads towards the destruction of ISIS much to the alarm and dismay of the West and If anyone is naive enough to believe America and Britian’s bullshit and propaganda ,take a look at the other countries they recently brought their benevolence to…Afghanistan Libya , Iraq ….now with compliant puppet governments overseeing marauding warring tribes reminiscent of the Middle-Ages …..but with the resources secure for the West…..FOR NOW !!
you would think they would address the internal threat before or alongside air strikes.
they.are.****s.jude.***en.up.by.****.unionist.are.
Jim. No.abuse. please. I’m going to edit your comments.Sorry.
Sorry.jude.
Fadhb. ar. bith – no.problem.Jim.
I was watching Nigel Dodd’s on TV last night trying to make a point about “not giving in to terrorism like in Northern Ireland”. He was obviously referring to Sinn Fein, the same Sinn Fein he is in Government with. No mention, of course, about Unionist terrorists of which great numbers were in the RUC, UDR and British Army and were also members of the Orange Order, which Dodd’s himself is a member of.
I don’t believe this bombing of Syria is about tackling IS at all but it is inevitable many, many innocent civilians will be killed. Isn’t that what Neill and other Unionists would call “Terrorism”? or is terrorism only when others do it?
Big games weekend in Omaha. Guaranteed no messy blood and guts. Almost as good as shooting children from a clock tower. If Cameron and the rest of cowards don’t row in behind the US then all the investment and arms markets will disappear overnight. Bread and butter issues, you know.
“I don’t believe this bombing of Syria is about tackling IS at all”
It is at the bequest of the USA and we will soon see it turn out to be more about their aim of removing assad and grabbing a bigger % of the arms sales off russia.
They wont like that russia and france are working together and lifting the trade restrictions.
So who is buying the oil and which banks are money laundering for Isis ? Going after the money trail seems a much more sensible approach than bombing with no end in sight.
Then again, when it comes to British foreign intervention, sensible isn’t a word that springs to mind.
Saudi Arabia is funding isis and turkey supplying the weapons bought from the west who are making a fortune from arms deals
The UK involvement in Syria will boost missile sales
The middle east is the perfect arena for showcasing weapons
It takes but a few hours flying time for the RAF’s bomber du jour, the Tornado GR 4, Esteemed Blogmeister, to ply the cloudy, crowded aerial route from the playing fields of Eton to the killing fields of Syria.
And the bomb of choice is the 505 kg which forms the basic warhead used in the RAF’s existing Paveway laser-guided bomb system. It has three modes of detonation.
1. It can be preset to detonate above a target in airburst mode to provide the maximum fragmentation effect for attack of unprotected targets.
2. Another mode is impact detonation, for achievement of maximum blast damage to unprotected targets.
3. The third mode is post-impact delay, in which the bomb will detonate after a pre-set delay allowing it to penetrate target structures. The length of the delay can be varied to achieve the best effect against individual targets.
Now the motto in compulsory Latin of the RAF is ‘per ardua ad astra’ /’through adversity to the stars’. It might be actually ‘per laurel and ardy’ as this is the but a branch of the Queen’s armed forces, the apologists for which in Norneverland were on active duty on the mouth-foaming, finger-wagging, pulpit-pounding front on the occasion of the Omagh bombing, as you tellingly point out, EB.
Not to be outdone, the tut-tutting in the Free Southern Stateen was as always led by the morally superior Mothers Superior (of both genders) in the not unaptly named TUT (The Unionist Times) during the course of the DTYW, which is text for the Dirty Thirty Year War.
Many of whose staff and the staff of other opinion outlets are drawn from the Tiffany necklace of Ersatz Etons of Eireland for Toffs. The same necklace which has the media in the Free Southern Stateen by the throat.
These are the nurseries of knobdom upon whose playing fields both egg-chasing and ego-racing are de rigeur. They shape the accent known as the Dort, which is a sort of gelded patois of the gilded youth and was first made globally familiar by the Geldof creature.
It is not an accent for the riff raff and the annual fees see firmly to that end of things: fees such as those of Blackrock College boarders (17,250 squids) in Dublin to Newtown School (10,000 squids) in County Waterford as well as a select few others at points west (five points for a try)– all Church of Ireland institutions (including the wannabe Roman wing).
These high altitude fees ensure the Paddy Stinks and the Mickey Mudds remain on the outside looking in. Unless, of course, they are of the Delivery class and thus, have access via the Tradesman’s entrance. (And above all, the Tradesman’s exit).
Among the sports unique to Eton and possibly its derivatives in the FSS is a form of handball called the Eton Fives. It just so happens that one of the words to be found in the terminology of this game is (gulp) Black Guard. (don’t ask).
Or, perhaps, if one is in lucky enough to reside in the constituency loop of a Stoop MP, might request him or her to enquire of old Etonian D’Cameron for its derivation, during Trath na gCeist / Question Time at Westminster.
A surname associated with County Waterford (which, curiously, has already got namechecked) is that of: Fives. A number of that surname have turned out with distinction on its county hurling team, and so would not be relevant to the current narrative. One says, curiously, because of course the same county is usually referred to today as the ‘Deise’ from the original leprechaun.
Even more curiously, this sounds remarkably like the latest fad among the Yakketariat in the media (on both sides of the Irish channel): to dispense with both ISIS and ISIL in favour of the Arabic version: ‘Da’ish’.
Going all native then, are we? The better to butter up the towel-heads in Sandyland before gong the heavy? Could this fad have found a sculpted echo recently on (gulp) the streets of Waterford City, located in Na Deise, when a bust of the thoughtful ethnic cleanser, Earl Frederick Roberts, was unveiled?
To conclude with a mention of a comment made by Sir Bob Geldof (see above) who was in airbust mode on the Lady Miriam O’Callaghan show last Sunday. During the course of this most touching yet simultaneously hard-edged interrogation,
Sir Bob veered from the teary (where his own Homeric overcoming of porsonal trogedy was concerned) to the sneery and jeery when it came to mentioning a prize he was once awarded for topping his closs in Orish, for God’s sakes:
-They gove me a copy of ‘The Mon in the Oiron Mosk’ – in Orish, for God’s sakes ! Still, I’m cortain it must be useful for something.
He opined in his ripest Dortese.
One wondered if he adopted the same tone of fockin Blackrockin condescension when saving the Oromo and Amharic speakers of nothing-to-eat Ethiopia when he was saving both his career and them from extinction (necessarily in that order).
Sadly, but understandably, Lady Moriam did not get to winkle that information out of him; understandably, for Running for the Presidency is not the time for either upsetting the opple-cort or rolling out the borrell bomb either. Even Presidents to be must be above politics, loike.
Perhaps, a predecessor-to-be of Lady Moriam, the one who was Wowed by the Tapper on the Shoulder blade of Sir Bob, might get to put a word, or ever a couple of wowrds in the ear of her BFF, Her Madge, on this topic, the next time they meet and greet. That is, after they have gotten the globally significant stuff, such as the cut of Pope Mary’s (for it is she !) butchy hairstyle, out of the way.
PS Actually, there is a use, albeit limited enough, of the Oirish translation of ‘The Mon in the Oiron Mosk’, Sir Bob. Specially, if you hoppen to be a towel-head on the sondy ground. Might even momentarily stop a shard or two of shrapnel, don’t you know.
Times like this remind me of Dean Acheson’s statement, Britain has lost an empire and is looking for a role.
In the real world they are nothing more than a large(ish) island, and failing state off the Norwegian west and lowland’s north coasts.
They do however have a large responsibility for fixing the mess they created when, with the French, they created, out of one terrority, several states to serve their purposes, Robert Fisk’s recent indo column shows at least some brit’s recognise this.
Britain, time for peace, time to go.
Jude
It is very depressing to see the UK government jumping into another bombing campaign.
No doubt it is a very complex situation but this seems hasty and ill thought out.
I am not surprised Unionists have supported it given their past record.
Now what was Sinn Fein’s contribution to the debate? Hmmm!
Well I don’t remember them speaking in favour of bombing Syria, let alone voting for it…
Jude
Yes I don’t remember them doing anything at all!
As you have often pointed out yourself,people who choose not to vote have the luxury of saying
“well I didn’t vote for that”.
Maybe it is time they got in there and got their hands dirty.
Well, you might be right, gio. I suppose the impact of the SDLP is certainly food for thought…
“Maybe it is time they got in there and got their hands dirty.”
gio, if irish votes had any significance in Westminster, they would not be tolerated.
“Now what was Sinn Fein’s contribution to the debate? Hmmm!”
As it should be, nothing to do with Ireland and none of our business
jessica
It is our business whether we like it or not. Our elected representatives ought to be standing up and making their voices heard and their votes count
If you don’t vote you can hardly complain about the result.
You figure the SDLP made a big difference last night, gio? Or the UUP/DUP?
Jude
I would say if a couple of Shinners had made speeches in favour of bombing that would have swung it round to a no vote!
Not all votes will have such clear majorities so the @it wouldn’t have made any difference’ argument’ is a poor one, especially from you. I quote:
“Why does voting matter? The most obvious answer is because it leaves the field free for others to make decisions about how your life is governed. That’s infantile behaviour.”
Ha haaa – touché, gio – a hit,a palpable hit! Take your point indeed…Mind you, that’s theory. Last night was practice. I got a bit of M Durkan’s speech tonight – I think he’d have had me voting Yes…
“I would say if a couple of Shinners had made speeches in favour of bombing that would have swung it round to a no vote!”
You mean like reverse psychology?
It is truly fascinating how your mind works gio.
Jessica
That bit was a joke. So crazy it might have worked though!
“jessica
It is our business whether we like it or not. Our elected representatives ought to be standing up and making their voices heard and their votes count
If you don’t vote you can hardly complain about the result.”
That is your opinion gio, I disagree.
I agree it is important elections have sufficient turn out otherwise it suggests democracy is not what it should be and suggests that the people have been disenfranchised.
I do vote but will not vote for anyone who takes a seat in westminster and never will.
I have never complained about any election result, I respect the outcome like it or not.
I would like to be able to vote for the irish presidency and hope we will be able to next time out. Americans can vote for american affairs from other jurisdictions I believe, i don’t see why the irish citizens in the occupied part of ireland cannot do likewise.
I am more concerned about irish affairs and in making sure the southern state do more for its irish citizens in the north.
Politicians from the north go to london to kiss the arses of their english paymasters and occasionally beg for more ever dwindling scraps.
I understand why england does what it does. It is looking after its own interests internationally and cannot afford the luxury of morality that smaller nations such as Ireland can. I am quite content to take my place among the smaller nations of the world, and will vote for like minded parties who do not wish to partake in global power struggles that are simply beyond our station to interfere in.
what is it you hope the sdlp (I assume whom you support) can possibly achieve from Westminster?
jessica
Yet commenters here are complaining about this vote, including SF supporters.
And rightly so as it concerns us all.
So I think it relevant to point out that SF representatives could have been there to stand up and be counted literally.
They are part of the system now. They stand for election, they administer British rule, including now implementing welfare cuts and they have shaken hands with the Queen, so not going to Westminster is now an irrelevance, a fig leaf really.
I am not blaming them for how this vote went but I think they should be there to be counted. And perhaps the next vote will be a lot closer, who knows.
It is important to make your statement that something is wrong even if the weight of opinion is against you.
So yes fair play to the SDLP for being there, while SF were invisible.
“Yet commenters here are complaining about this vote, including SF supporters.
And rightly so as it concerns us all.”
In what way do you feel it concerns you gio?
“So yes fair play to the SDLP for being there, while SF were invisible.”
The SDLP have made their bed in terms of supporting british rule and Westminster.
I can see how sinn fein either not standing at all or taking seats in Westminster would throw a lifeline to the SDLP which they so desperately need.
The SDLP are a unionist party. The declare as nationalist only because the majority of their dwindling vote is from that community.
“So I think it relevant to point out that SF representatives could have been there to stand up and be counted literally.
They are part of the system now. They stand for election, they administer British rule, including now implementing welfare cuts and they have shaken hands with the Queen, so not going to Westminster is now an irrelevance, a fig leaf really.”
Tell me how again gio, just how exactly you are not a unionist?
Have you any interest in what goes on in your own country at all?
There is nothing wrong with being pro british, but if only you like the SDLP could just be honest about it.
On the other hand, you do have a point about comments on this blog focussing a lot more on current british politics than current irish politics.
We are hearing that corporation tax dodges in the south have cost billions in unpaid revenue, gerry adams is not ruling out coalition with fianna fail yet comments on this blog are as you say more concerned about the british labour party and how they are doing in another country, of which I couldn’t care less about.
I think you may have hit on something, and it could that there is an element of institutionalisation in the north. We have been under british rule for so long, there is perhaps a fear of stepping out from under their wing so to speak.
Interested to hear more thoughts on this.
A nationalist majority is approaching, and it is perhaps time we started thinking about whether we want greater say in London or will use it for greater say in Dublin. Half a million Irish citizens 100 miles from Dublin and we don’t get a say in who runs our own country. That is not on.