The BREXIT vote has been like the explosion of a huge bomb – we’re still scrabbling around in the debris, sometimes making happy discoveries of life where we thought there was none, sometimes finding badly- wounded and fearful people.
One of the discoveries that’s excited attention is the sight of Ian Paisley Jr urging his constituents to apply for an Irish passport. He says that he has signed off on applications for such passports, for many of his constituents. This has been viewed as an extraordinary development, but a little thought should tell you it’s not totally unexpected. Paisley like the rest of the DUP campaigned for a Leave vote. Now that the Leave camp have triumphed, and a majority of people here in the north are dismayed, it makes political sense for Paisley to do anything he can to mollify those constituents who are shocked and angry with the result. One way: tell them you’ll help them get an Irish passport. Like all politicians, Ian Paisley Jr rarely says anything in public without an eye on how it may play with his constituents and hence his future job prospects.
Interestingly, Ian Jr’s father, in his final months, claimed he had never tried to hide the fact that he saw himself as Irish.
A balancing set of enquiries has come flooding onto the Scottish website which helps English people who want to live in Scotland. Apparently since the BREXIT vote was decided, that site has experienced a surge of some 800%, as English people try to think of ways around what they see as a UK disaster. One can only assume they believe Nicola Sturgeon when she says she plans to hold another independence referendum, so that Scotland can remain in the EU.
As the implications of the UK’s coming exit sink in, people are discovering who their friends are – or at least who their economic allies are. It is in the interests of all business in Ireland north and south that BREXIT has a minimal impact on trade throughout the island. That requires Irish people and the governments north and south working together. One suggestion – by the journalist Martina Devlin – is that IDA Ireland, the south’s industrial development agency which has been so successful in attracting foreign direct investment, should be extended to include all of Ireland. That strikes me as a sensible and positive idea, and one which would make equal sense even to the most obdurate of unionists.
Of course there’s a danger in reading too much into the discoveries that people are making as they see the BREXIT dust subside. Ian Paisley considering himself Irish or his son urging constituents to acquire Irish passports doesn’t mean either was/is an Irish republican. And finding common ground economically is not the same as common ground politically. But it’s amazing the change in tone and perception that can come, when you start working alongside people to achieve shared objectives.
That would indeed make sense as Tourism Ireland currently looks after tourism for the whole of the island so there is also precedent.
It will be the needs of businesses and the people that unite this island, not the shit head politicians especially those south of the border.
“That would indeed make sense”
What would make sense?
“as Tourism Ireland currently looks after tourism for the whole of the island”
It doesn’t. It only looks after tourism marketing.
“so there is precedent”
Precedent for what?
Its amazing how things can change when it starts to hit them in the pocket Jude, great article
Thanks, PG…
Tranoma duit Jude, one small point on Ian seana Irishness, he may have been more right than you think, if my own Granda, we come come from just out the road from where Ian og (then) was born, was correct.
On the fall out from Britain, and the six Ulster counties vote to leave the EU last week, three weeks past I was in Europe, specifically, Spain and,,as usual, got up next morning to get th shappin, in a large nearby supermarket, therein I overheard a group of retired brit’s discussing the potential impact of the, then, potential ‘leave’ vote by theirs, and our referendum result. One more elderly gent expressed his concern for his ‘rights’,as a european citizen to avail of services in his country of residence/retirement, another, not significantly older than I made the point, ‘the Spanish government cannot live without our pensions and this supermarket cannot survive without them either’ I remained, it takes a long time for Spanish butchers to cut a few slices of ham, pondering what I had heard thinking it hugely correct, and not only in Spain but, France, parts of Italy, Greece and Cyprus. On the other hand, thousands of zloty go back to Poland,from UK and the six Ulster counties each week (perhaps multiplied bu some hundreds), do we really believe the German government can resist calls for a better negotiated trade deal with the brit’s by simply wheeling out their clowns, Junker and Tusk to play the ‘good cop, bad cop’ bully boy tactic?
As PF said on your blog yesterday (curiously I was in process of making the same point,again but herself called me for the trip to the best chinese south of Ballina as I’m back in Spain) it really is a matter, for us as well as our neighbours, to determine which hun subjugates us? There is no democracy in europe, either the EU nor it’s predecessor, the EC respected the democratic will of the Irish people in the other twenty six counties but, if the brit’s can hold firm against the pressure,and lisbon 2 type lies they will ne told to get them to vote the european way next time,,perhaps democracy could prevail and finally a degree of ‘subsidiarity’ if you can remember that, will be visited upon the people of europe, and Ireland.
Finally, the below is a great insight from a great Irish politician, and democrat, on the undemocratic nature of EU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psLJ0lECmSw
Hopefully Sinn Fein, Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, the Independents (of all hue) and the rump view, understand and can listen.
I read the EU security report outlining recommendations for the single army and for the reason it was to enhance trade relations with the US.
I had never heard of this TTIP but it now makes total sense.
The EU has taken a war footing in their future direction, it would not surprise me in the slightest that the US has been urging them in this direction with trade incentives to stop their 20 year decline in economic fortunes.
That explains totally why the need to occupy the bordering nations with Russia and the expansion of Europe into the middle east.
It sounds like things are much worse than any of us thought.
Frankly Jessica, the whole Ukraine debacle where, Germany, aka, the EU, overthrew the democratically elected leader of Ukraine kinda showed the game was over for democracy worldwide. I’m not too certain the yanks thought it through too well either, my great fear has been, the Germans have not forgiven Berlin yet so will seek to push our children into their army of the fourth reich to avenge that before too long.
The basis for this being the last EU treaty, one of those they made us vote on more than once,to me this smacked of ‘reich four’ democracy writ large.
I have had my suspicions on this since the pre negotiation for Maastricht in 1988, having been a frequent visitor to europe in those day’s.
On Russian expansion to the middle east, an often forgotten reason for US entry to the second world war was the reason why the Japanese imperial air force attacked Pearl Harbour, it was, US expansion in the far east, Russian expansion may just be protection of their own natural and economic borders.
I may be wrong but, then again.
“I’m not too certain the yanks thought it through too well either”
No they haven’t.
Brexit might actually encourage a rethink and provide an opportunity to correct things but I doubt it, this has been going on longer than I think we know as yet.
Angela Merkel first suggested it in 1990 so yes the single state EU will de facto be German led who have had the most input into its direction.
If anyone thinks expansion of a monstrosity of a super state planning a single super army will not trigger after shocks around the work and cause dangerous global divisions they are fools.
All I can see is ugliness. When more of the truth comes out, Ireland will leave the EU. I am certain of it.
If it is allowed progress to conflict, it will not go as planned either, Germany will divide and will be in civil war like most of the EU nations.
The EU is an extension of the US hence why Obama was keen to keep the UK in it. They can get the EU to bend to their ways with Britain inside Brussels not outside. Don’t forget it was the US(McCain and Nuland) that actively encouraged Ukrainians to get stuck into overthrowing the sovereign govt of the Ukraine once protests began.
Btw these initial protests stemmed from the fact that the said Ukraine govt decided to reject the EU insistence that if it the Ukraine wanted to open up new trade deals with the EU they would have to reject previous existing trade deals with Russia. It’s was the EU way or the highway. They weren’t allowed to have both. The Ukraine govt refused and so an ‘uprising’ occurred by elements in the Ukraine who were never fond of Russia. This uprising was openly spurred on by the US. In fact Nuland was recorded saying ‘fuck the EU’ when it was suggested to her that the EU was becoming uneasy in pushing too hard with the Ukraine crisis.
Up to the present day we make excuses for why Irishmen were sucked into the imperialist battle of ww1. The common belief was that they were lied to. We wonder how they didn’t realise they were being lied to and used. We mistakenly believe it couldn’t happen in this day, ‘never again’ etc etc. And yet the same thing is obviously happening again were people believe that their side can do no wrong and are bastions for good, and the other side are savages.
Lazily labelling other countries as opponents of freedom of speech etc is well, lazy. Especially so when you can’t even recognise the human rights abuses of some of the countries that be on the ‘good side’. For example, we had the western media and it’s useful idiots demanding a boycott of the Sochi Winter Olympics a while back. The reason being that Russia outlawed homosexuality. The truth of the lie is that they don’t. They just outlaw homosexual activity in public. Each to their own. There are by all accounts gay bars/clubs in Moscow etc but you aren’t told that. The hypocrisy is plain to see when you realise some states in the US outlaw homosexual activity completely. Alas that doesn’t fit the narrative of operation poke the Russian bear. And yet despite this hypocrisy the Russian people are not allowed to think there are double standards with them and the west? They aren’t allowed to view this hypocrisy as suspicious? They are told to ignore their suspicions and accept that the west only wants what’s best for them?
So much for the EU preventing wars then. More lies.
There are still a lot of lies and confusion about the real agenda behind the EU and its secret deals with the US and Israel.
“And yet the same thing is obviously happening again were people believe that their side can do no wrong and are bastions for good, and the other side are savages.”
Or racists.
A lot of that going on at the moment.
“They just outlaw homosexual activity in public.”
I would be very supportive of that also, I suppose I that makes me a homophobe as well as a racist.
wolfie
So it is ok to be gay in Russia as long as you aren’t gay in public?
If you want to hold hands go to a gay bar.
Seems fair.
Which states in the U.S. outlaw homosexual activity completely?
I would never have considered holding hands as homosexual activity gio?
Is that really what is outlawed or are you just making it up?
Sorry Gio but your ignorance is your fault nobody else’s fault. Anyway to address your ignorance- as far as I know Texas,Montana and Oklahoma have anti gay laws. Russia has simply banned gay acts in public. I am sure you can use your imagination as to what ‘gay acts’ are. But as usual Gio you deflect any valid points by nitpicking. Operation poke the Russian bear must continue despite the hypocrisy of the west. If they can get the Low Informed members of the public/useful idiots then it’s even better. Carry on Gio continuing the lies rather than address or hear both sides of the narrative. Who knows people like you could play a hand in sending/duping/tricking more naive working class kids into wars based on lies. ‘Never again’? Don’t make me laugh.
wolfie
I thought you said some states outlawed homosexual activity completely.
I have checked (being ignorant) but I can’t find any.
As for Russia, their anti gay propaganda law is probably just zionist mis-information.
Don’t really get this passport thing. We’re still in the EU and even when we leave we’ll still be able to travel using a UK passport.
“Don’t really get this passport thing. We’re still in the EU and even when we leave we’ll still be able to travel using a UK passport.”
It is only NI citizens living in the EU they are referring to. Apply for an Irish passport and you can remain as an EU citizen, at least until Ireland leaves also.
Anyone simply visiting, no it wont make much of a difference at all. It is all hype and media bullshit as they support the evil union.
Well an EU passport enables the holder to seek employment without immigration restriction for example.it enables you to live as a citizen live in any EU member country you want.You’ll have all all of the rights and privileges offered by the country in which you reside, no matter which member country that might be. You and your family will be able to avail of local health, education, unemployment programs, pensions and the anything else an EU citizen would get. An EU passport enables you to travel virtually unimpeded in the event of any incident that involves your country. You can simply travel as a citizen of the European Union .You’ll not be pilled aside and have to negotiate your own personal exit.The main thing is the total freedom to travel , invest work, play and live anywhere you fancy without a lot of bureaucratic hassle .That’s why I’m hanging tightly to my Irish passport.I’m a pragmatist.
Sorry about some of those “sticky” missteps !!Damned keypad!!
“Well an EU passport enables the holder to seek employment without immigration restriction for example.it enables you to live as a citizen live in any EU member country you want.You’ll have all all of the rights and privileges offered by the country in which you reside, no matter which member country that might be. You and your family will be able to avail of local health, education, unemployment programs, pensions and the anything else an EU citizen would get.”
Yes, I know all that, but somehow I doubt that anything other than a tiny proportion of those panic-applying for Southern passports have any intention of going to live and work elsewhere in the EU. Plus it remains to be seen what arrangement the UK negotiates with the EU.
“An EU passport enables you to travel virtually unimpeded in the event of any incident that involves your country. You can simply travel as a citizen of the European Union .You’ll not be pilled aside and have to negotiate your own personal exit.”
The UK is still in the EU and even after it leaves there will still be unimpeded travel throughout Europe.
Yeah , Jude …maybe even Gregory will have a punt and buy one , eh?Might even stretch to learning a bit of Irish too , eh?
“Sometimes, I have believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast,”
said Alice in Wonderland.
“In a sane world, everyone would now have a week off to come to terms with the new political landscape, and have a proper, rational think about what to do next,”
said Sarah Vine (Ms Gove) on the morning of the Brexit result. Michael Gove is a Times person, Sarah is a Mail person and Boris writes for the Telegraph.
Boris put pen to paper once and wrote that a Brexit:
“might be globally interpreted as a narrow, xenophobic, backward-looking thing to do.”
Mr Gove once stated he had no ambition to be the British Prime Minister:
“I don’t want to do it and there are people who are far better equipped than me to do it.”
He also stated:
“I’ve taken some difficult decisions, but I’ve always taken those because I’ve put my
country and my principles first…”
At least some issues have been clarified as the sales of newspapers soar in the wake of
the referendum result. Some politicians and columnists continue to say what they do not
mean and mean what they do not say and the fruit of the vine continues to leave a bitter
taste in many mouths.
ian og is only looking out for his votes,he knows the undemocratic stay camp with their petitions,sour grapes attitude,wanting reruns ect, will have pushed voter apathy way up here ive heard loads commenting on it.once its triggered ian knows the dup vote in westminster could hold sway when it comes to the new laws promised in the campaign are pushed through.maybe he sees the passport thing just as a handy document until some sort of digital thing is put in place but it probably wont be needed as ireland will see the benefits and leave europe aswell.
“One suggestion… is that IDA Ireland… should be extended to include all of Ireland.”
It will, no doubt, happen – or something like it – if not prior to, then following Cooperation Tax parity.
And it will happen with the agreement of unionists – although which union it is they are in favour of I can no longer say. Currently there are three possibilities on the table – but one of them, like Sauron’s ring will rule the others, and then render either the UK or a United Ireland meaningless.
As I’ve said before, I expect a United Ireland sometime soon – if not officially according to the affairs to state, then in every other practical way. It’s not my favoured option, of course; being a British Unionist I’d like to see Ireland united within a new UK, but if my fellow Ulster-Scots can be persuaded by anything, then they can be persuaded by a promising economic deal – I hear you can’t serve the Union and mammon, or something like that!
Personally, I’ll be holding off on Paisley’s advice until then. Somebody should write a book, and call it, ‘Never, Never, Never mind.’
And thanks for the link, Mark, very enlightening.
A Fuller Class of Colour
The passport of Seamus was famously green-o
Alas, it’s now as retro as the Dandy and Beano
When asked to choose
Paddy opted for booze
So now Mick’s p.p. ’s (hic) the colour of vino.
Another well thought out classic, go raibh maith agat.
I have nothing original to add to this but would like to say that calling people ( whether Protestants Germans or English) “Huns” is no less racist than other objectionable generic terms e.g. Polacks, Krauts, Frogs, Paddies, n****** etc and should not be tolerated oñ this site
catch yourself on, I have heard enough of people using the term racists to control peoples opinions and I am getting really, really pissed off about it
jessica
Brian makes a reasonable point. ‘Hun’ is a term of sectarian abuse and has no place in grown up debate.
On the other hand terms like ‘bigot’,’nazi”’neanderthal’,’bitch’ ‘ni**er,’yid’, ‘kosher nostra’,’dumdum’, ’emptyhead’ are all acceptable here so Brian should not get his hopes up.
And as for ‘racist’it is a term you yourself have used often enough so I don’t see why you would try to control other peoples opinions by objecting to it.
It is not the point he was making, it is how he made it that I object to – very strongly.
Brian, I agree 100% what you just typed there but out of curiosity: why did you use ** for the racist term for a black person but you didn’t use it for the racist/offensive terms for Protestants, Germans, English, etc?…..
Is one more offensive than the other? Or is some more tolerable than others? For example the word “Paddy” is often used as an offensive term for an Irish man/woman but is thrown around now days like confetti. Black people use the term “cracker” or “Pig” as a racist term for White people and I have even encountered white people on twitter who DEFENDED this racism. According to some self hating White people the only Empires that ever existed and oppressed people were run by Whites…..a great example of supreme ignorance and a lack of education. And I’m not defending what European Empires did, btw, indeed the Irish were victims of them for far longer than all Asian/African peoples were but most people forget the activities of the Ottoman Empire, the Japanese Empire, the Mongol Empire, etc which were far worse than any European Empire.
Just asking because I’m curious and I like understanding the thinking behind peoples words/actions.
Tranona duir a Bhrian, ta an la deas anseo ar Espana, ni seo go mhaoth ar Eireann.
Ta bron orm easpa na fadai, effing pc anseo.
Anyhow, was meself introduced the ‘hun’ into the brexit debate originally so, to put it to bed, no leaba, I admit, I am no real fan of unionism in occupied Ireland, next week I will, again celberate another year married to one, over a quarter century but and we laugh about it more than we argue but, I have never liked my wife’s constitutional position, nor she mine, she’s not too fond of it when I slag off na hunni but then I’m dismayed when she cheers for occupied Ireland foreign sports, hopefully in twenty four years we’ll celebrate fifty years slagging each other off.
Your point on —–s, persons of sub-saharan African heritage, except my own family of this, partial, extract, refer to themselves as such,what’s the problem?
I myself use the term ‘hun’ as a descriptive term, her royal magestie, Mrs. Battenberg, nee Sax Coberg Gotha, is quite german of just that heritage and so her followers get referred as such in our country, if they don’t like it, Scotland is quite close and boat’s leave daily but rediscovering their united Irish heritage may better suit them however, as above, I use hun to describe them who adhere to unionist rule in this part of Ireland, always hoping some latter day Wolfe Tone may emerge to persuade them they’re better off with here..
Mark – while I accept the ironic tone of your comment, and while I’ll make a stretch and accept that you’re discussing the word ‘hun’ and its appropriateness or otherwise, I can’t same the same for the other word you use. To say Africans themselves use the term isn’t a justification. We do something similar with ‘paddy’, but I certainly wouldn’t be happy to have an Englishman use the term. Sauce for the goose, etc…
I am one of those Unionists currently applying for a Irish passport.
I am upset at my country leaving the EU although I accept the democratic decision. I am applying for a Irish passport partly out of protest and partly as it is the only practical thing I can do to remain a EU citizen.
I’m also thinking about if I have children some day who may, unlike me wish to live or study in Europe. I don’t want that door closed on them.
Hi, Scott.
There are few enough Unionists on this blog, so we have something in common; but you’ll forgive me for asking a question, because I really (really) don’t get it.
You are “applying for a Irish passport partly out of protest”
So, because you are unhappy about a decision taken within your own nation, you’ll change your citizenship to that of another?
“and partly as it is the only practical thing I can do to remain a EU citizen.”
That sounds very much like – ‘As a Unionist, and citizen of the United Kingdom, I’m prepared to become an Irish citizen so I can be a European citizen’; doesn’t that make a nonsense of national citizenship?
“I’m also thinking about if I have children some day who may, unlike me wish to live or study in Europe.”
But they would have to designate as Irish for themselves, unless, of course, Unionists were prepared to vote for a United (European) Ireland.
As I said, I don’t get it.
Personally, I’m hoping for a return to the old navy passport, you know, the one which says, “British Passport” at the top. And with a bit of luck, it will say, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland”, underneath.
“Personally, I’m hoping for a return to the old navy passport, you know, the one which says, “British Passport” at the top. And with a bit of luck, it will say, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland”, underneath.”
I think there would be as much chance of it being called the Republic of Great Ireland and Britain. lol
Firstly, will the UK be around for much longer do you think?
Secondly, if a new relationship between these islands if forged, it will be based on each country being equals and those are Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales. .
“I think there would be as much chance of it being called the Republic of Great Ireland and Britain.”
I suspect you are correct, Jessica; it’s certainly possible that a British Republic is on the cards, with the Royal Family becoming something akin to the National Trust (good for tourism and the economy), but I may as well put the idea out into the ether somewhere – very odd things are happening these days.
Not least the alignment of Nationalists/Republicans/Unionists/Loyalists on either side of the European debate.
Take this passport issue, the Paisley’s have come a long way from not buying ‘Free State’ sugar! As for unionists generally, some see Brexit as a way of ensuring Northern Ireland is more British, others think it will lead to the breakup of the Union and these same people seem to think they can be more British by being more European, which, it seems, can be secured by being more Irish.
My own view is that Northern Ireland is being merged into the Republic: cross border bodies, an open border, tax parity and all Island tourism are all unifying factors, and Unionists aren’t bothered by any of this cultural assimilation. They would be bothered, however, if the Irish tricolour was flown beside the Union flag at Stormont, while at the very same time, the very same Unionists were flying an Irish passport beside the British one in their wallet – and I can’t make any sense of that.
As for the next steps, I’d be predicting Devo-max for Scotland and Northern Ireland, with strengthening links to the RoI in NI’s case.
Hi PF I’ve tried to answer you questions below
“So, because you are unhappy about a decision taken within your own nation, you’ll change your citizenship to that of another?”
I don’t see getting a Irish passport in order to get EU citizenship as changing my citizenship. I’m am keeping my UK passport as well as getting an Irish one. I’m not Changing my citizenship by abandoning my UK citizenship, I’m simply getting an Irish one and accepting dual citizenship.
“That sounds very much like – ‘As a Unionist, and citizen of the United Kingdom, I’m prepared to become an Irish citizen so I can be a European citizen’; doesn’t that make a nonsense of national citizenship?”
Well the option of dual citizenship is open to me and it’s a pragmatic move as it’s the only way I can see to retain my EU citizenship. I am pro EU and believe in Pan European integration along with Atlantism with North America.
“But they would have to designate as Irish for themselves, unless, of course, Unionists were prepared to vote for a United (European) Ireland.”
Yes but I am concerned that with the complex negotiations going on, I am concerned that there is a small chance that Irish citizenship (EU citizenship) might be withdrawn from people born in NI. If I am already a Irish citizen then I doubt any Irish government would take that away from any children I may have. I must add though that I believe the chances of this is small but why not try and keep that option open to them.
I remain a Unionist PF, however I’m far from a polarised Unionist. If I heard a convincing argument that a United Ireland would be to the obvious benefit of the people of NI I would vote for a UI. This BREXIT has certainly weakened my unionism but has not broke it yet.
I hope that all made sense. I worry that I am just rambling nonsensically sometimes when I’m writing this.lol
” One suggestion – by the journalist Martina Devlin – is that IDA Ireland, the south’s industrial development agency which has been so successful in attracting foreign direct investment, should be extended to include all of Ireland.”
But wouldn’t that be counter productive for people of the South? Where’s the sense in one state attracting investment for another state? That’s exactly like Britain drawing away investment from British people for the benefit of France, it’s French people benefitting at the expense of the British.
It was Viscount Craigavon that once said: ” It would be rather interesting for historians of the future to compare a Catholic State launched in the South with a Protestant State launched in the North and to see which gets on the better and prospers the more”
A very sectarian comment from the Viscount but I don’t think Historians will have to study long to work out which state “got on the better” and prospered more. When compared the Southern State makes the Northern State look like an even worse basket case than it actually is.
Total Exports of the Southern State is 100 Billion a year. Total Exports of the Northern State is just 6 Billion a year.
The average wage of the South is DOUBLE what it is in the North.
The Human Development Index shows for the year 2015 the South is tied 6th with Germany in the World for HD per individual. The United Kingdom as a whole ranks 14th in the World. If Northern Ireland was individually ranked I’m sure it would be in the 20’s maybe even 30’s on the list.
The South is predicted to have 7% economic growth this year. Compare this to 1% for the UK, though this will change due to Brexit, there is likely to be a recession in the UK. Northern Ireland was predicted to grow by less than 1% before Brexit, again this will change now.
The Republic ranks higher than the UK as a whole in Maths, Science and Reading according to “Business Insider”.
I could go on.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny said he wanted to make an All Ireland forum to discuss the impact of Brexit on the whole island of Ireland. SIR Jeffrey Donaldson (You can picture Jeffrey in chain mail, leading a charge in the middle ages, cant you? lol) said that “the Irish Government wont be speaking on behalf of Northern Ireland”. Again, its this arrogance of Unionism that THEY think they speak on behalf of all the people of the North. The day is long overdue when the Irish Government and Sinn Fein/SDLP makes it clear to Unionism that the Stormont of old is dead and gone.
Ryan
“Where’s the sense in one state attracting investment for another state?”
I think it’s called the EU.
The EU does not attract investment for other states, in fact they object to Irelands lower corporation tax and will do away with it at the first opportunity.
I simply meant that some states are required to support others, and that out of their own economic gains.
“But wouldn’t that be counter productive for people of the South? Where’s the sense in one state attracting investment for another state? That’s exactly like Britain drawing away investment from British people for the benefit of France, it’s French people benefitting at the expense of the British. ”
Ryan, think that through logically, do you think the north of Ireland having more money to spend would really be a bad thing for the south of Ireland?
Plus it is not like Britain helping France, Ireland is one country, divided into two jurisdictions of which much of our infrastructure is shared and inextricably linked as well as sections of our people interspersed across in articular the border counties. Ireland will never reach its potential until it is one country and that will require the north to be as prosperous as possible so no it would not be counter productive for people of the South.
Unification of our economies started a while back, businesses are unifying, it is the people who I believe are growing further apart. If the people in the south object, it will be simply a further example of how divided our people have become.
“The average wage of the South is DOUBLE what it is in the North.”
That isn’t a good thing and it was Fianna Fails doing and it has over heated their economy and needs realistic adjustment which they are struggling to do via austerity measures and pay freezes. The fact they got away with what they did to the economy so lightly was rather shameful of the electorate.
“Enda Kenny said he wanted to make an All Ireland forum to discuss the impact of Brexit on the whole island of Ireland. SIR Jeffrey Donaldson said that “the Irish Government wont be speaking on behalf of Northern Ireland”. Again, its this arrogance of Unionism that THEY think they speak on behalf of all the people of the North. The day is long overdue when the Irish Government and Sinn Fein/SDLP makes it clear to Unionism that the Stormont of old is dead and gone.”
That is actually a good idea, and a forum does not mean anyone will be speaking on behalf of someone else involved, that is just the instinctive sectarian bigotry which still exists in unionism coming out without thinking about how much has changed in recent days.
In a spirit of good neighbourliness, Esteemed Blogmeister, It is imperative (as used to be written in school essays) to draw the attention of any prospective purchaser in Norneverland of a wine-coloured Irish passport.
Specifically, to an item in tiny print which appears in the inside of the back cover.
Even though the purchaser of the passport will have handed over four score euros (no point in translating this tidy sum into untidy sterling as the latter currency will have in all probability become even more unkempt before the completion of this brief bulletin) the following term and condition ought not be overlooked.
Bilingually it goes as follows:
Is le hAire Gnothai Eachtracha na hEireann an pas seo / This passport remains the property of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ireland.
Thus, should one be unfortunate enough to mislay, lose, have filched, purloined or snatched, one’s passport, it will possibly be safe to assume – assumig it is ever retrieved much less returned, – that it will end up eventually in the in-tray of Charlie ‘Je Suis Charles’ Flanagan.
It is scarcely necessary to urge the utmost propriety , therefore, on any Irish passport holder regarding the surroundings one might find oneself while travelling abroad. And to insist at all times they are of the requisite salubriousness.
MAKING A PASS AT ONE’S PASSPORT
Whether it be in a seraglio, knocking shop or bordello
One counsels extreme discretion on any frisky fellow
For Charlie
Would hardly
Welcome the sobriquet ‘Good Time’ in the spirit mellow.
Has Ryan worked out yet how Brexit means the end of the GFA, as he previously claimed?
Jessica, telling people to ‘catch themselves on’ is not an argument. My Protestant neighbours are not Huns. Neither are th English or Germans. Nor am I a Paddy, a Mick or a Taig. As to why I put asterisks in place of the N I believe there are degrees of offensiveness. And the N word is the pits. In my humble opinion.
No one here said they were Brian, you prove my point. You are putting words in mouths that simply weren’t said to justify your branding of people racists to suit your opinion, whether they actually are not is irrelevant to you.
And I am not prepared to argue with you about it, I am telling you to catch yourself on as not everyone will simply tolerate your abuse. Do what you like with that.
1 “Not prepared to argue” says more about Jessica than me. 2 ” No one said they (Protestants English Germans)were” (Huns)- so the word just materialised, did not refer to anyone.3 what “words ….that were n’t said” did I put in anyone’s mouth?4 I made what I consider a valid point that I considered terms like “Paddy,Hun,Polak etc. racit. That may as you so elegantly put it Jessica “piss ( you) off”. But in most reasoble people’s eyes it hardly constitutes abuse.
“1 “Not prepared to argue” says more about Jessica than me. ”
Sometimes there is no point arguing Brian.
“2 ” No one said they (Protestants English Germans)were” (Huns)- so the word just materialised, did not refer to anyone.”
“3 what “words ….that were n’t said” did I put in anyone’s mouth?”
No one referred to your protestant neighbours as huns as you claimed and used to throw out the term racist which is being abused a lot at the moment.
And not everyone holds your opinion, I have no problem with the term hun used to identify Germany as its empirical state or the monarchic link with England who also ruled us in their empire. I grew up with the term hun and taig used a lot but I know very few of those who used it were racists, we grew up in a polarised society during a conflict, it was normal under those circumstances.
And even if you have a problem with it, say so, don’t make up that is was directed at your neighbours for being protestants and therefore racist.
“4 I made what I consider a valid point that I considered terms like “Paddy,Hun,Polak etc. racit. That may as you so elegantly put it Jessica “piss ( you) off”. But in most reasoble people’s eyes it hardly constitutes abuse.”
And you are entitled to your opinion and point of view, but so too are others.
It is the current abuse of the term racist to attack someone that pisses me off (to put it mildly), even if they do have a potty mouth and do use nasty names. it does not mean they are automatically racists.
As you noticed, I can be fairly colourful in my use of language, also emotive, and at times provocative, but individual to individual, person to person, no one would find me racist no matter where they are from or their religion or colour.
If conversation on an internet forum is going to become so politically correct, many people will simply not bother with it. Jude does his best to filter poor taste content, but if this abuse of racist doesn’t stop then I think I have had my fill.
If you put any value on debate and conversation, you wont get far being so intolerant towards those holding different opinions to yourself that you brand them racists without knowing them.
All you are doing is expressing bigotry towards opinions you don’t like and using obnoxious terms to control them.
Well Jessica I am glad you have decided to chang your mind and to argue with me. That is progress of a kind.n the first place I did not accuse any person of being a racist. You will no doubt be aware that certain elements have used abbreviations such as KAT and I have also seen Kill All Huns posted on a wall in Derry. I am aware that many of the people who bandy these terms about are not racist. (Some are) But they are used by racists to demean other groups.So I suggest that calling people by their proper title is good practice,as is avoiding terms which stereotype whole races or nationalities implying that they are ‘untermensch’. If that “PYO” too bad. But to suggest that is “expressing bigotry”, being “intolerant” and “obnoxious” is to present a refreshingly and unorthodox perspective on those terms. Fir which I congratulate you but suggest you are in a minority, probably of one.
“So I suggest that calling people by their proper title is good practice, as is avoiding terms which stereotype whole races or nationalities”
Would it not have been better to make that point in the first place instead of bringing the racist term, especially when you agree that the use of such derogatory terms does not necessarily mean someone is racist?
It is not the point you are making I am against but how you made it.
As for other issues such as the hate words on the walls, I can assure you will not dissuade a single one from doing this by calling them racists. If you simply want to make yourself feel better then carry on.
I repeat Jessica, I called NO-ONE a racist. I have been restrained in my language. Unlike some.
Fair enough Brian, reading through it again I agree that you did not directly call anyone racist and it was a stand alone statement.
Apologies for over reacting. The term touches a nerve with me at the moment., I will try to restrain myself more in future
A most gracious apology Jessica. Gura maith agat.
Oh I am aware I have a big trap, least I can do when I get out of line 🙂
My bark is worse than my bite though