How significant has been the surge in application, post-BREXIT, for Irish passports? It’s difficult to get exact figures but there’s general agreement that application centres have run out of application forms and that people who would never have thought of applying for an Irish passport are now doing just that. And it’s not just for themselves, but for their children as well, since it is they who will have to cope with the consequences of the Tory Party in-fighting that spilled over into life-changing prospects for Ireland, Britain and maybe Europe.
Over 16 million people in the UK voted to remain in the EU, so we may conclude that it’s from that disappointed ocean of people the applications are coming. Why do they want to have an Irish passport?
Because it gives them a toehold in the EU. I’m not clear whether it restores their full rights in terms of EU citizenship, but at an emotional level at least it lets them feel that they are still part of the wider unit we call Europe. Here in the north of Ireland we don’t give much of a damn how people feel about Europe; what we really care about is how they feel about being Irish. Will obtaining an Irish passport make people more Irish?
I don’t think so. I know of a number of unionists who, long before the BREXIT debate, carried an Irish passport because there were parts of the world where a British passport could be a risky document to carry, while an Irish passport generated none of the same hostility. As an Irish person, I felt pleased and flattered by that. Most countries, like most people, like to think they’re popular.
Did the acquisition of an Irish passport make my unionist acquaintances more Irish? Umm…It’s complicated. I think that it very likely gave them a tiny reminder that they live in Ireland and that they are part of the wider Irish family. So to that extent, having an Irish passport nudged them a couple of inches towards joining those of us who see ourselves as Irish in an unqualified way. The hope that most Irish people have, that unionists will recognize how welcome they are to become an active part of the Irish nation – that hope is given a small boost by the flood of applications for Irish passports.
But. And it’s a significant but. I don’t believe any of my pre-BREXIT unionists who acquired Irish passports stopped thinking of themselves as British or stopped voting for unionist parties. That change would be a far more profound step. Holding an Irish passport does something in terms of identifying with Ireland but it doesn’t make you see yourself as un-British.
I say that as someone with children (well, ex-children) who hold Canadian passports, since that’s where they were born. Do they think of themselves as Canadian? Nope. So let’s not get too excited. Unionists with Irish passports is pleasing, but it’s far from fatal to self-identification as British.
unionists maybe are a step ahead and have been listening to the promises made in the brexit campaign and see an irish passport as a handy document for crossing the border.they will use their british passports entering uk ports.people are only kidding themselves thinking there will be no checks between an eu and a non eu country.
My Scottish children were dismayed and more by the result of the Referendum. My son has already taken steps to acquire Irish passports for him and his children. His partner, I understand, has the same rights through her paternal grandfather. They are fervently Scottish and all played an active online role during the Scottish Referendum. My oldest daughter was born in Zambia but currently holds a British passport and I think she may have tri-national status. Scottish people, as reflected in the overwhelming Remain vote, identify with Europe and want to extend their EU citizenship. That is the prime motivation for my children in seeking Irish passports; they have never thought themselves to be British as a significant minority of Scots does – Scottish/British. They most certainly want to remain EU citizens and an Irish passport will ensure that in the short term. An independent Scotland enjoying EU membership, would be our shared aspiration.
Go dtiocfaidh an lá sin gan mhoill
Agree totally. Similarly nationalists who held a British passport did not make them feel British but in most cases was a result of British passports being cheaper and being easier to obtain in the North because there are no Irish Passport offices here.
On principle I use an Irish Passport as do my family but I remember a circumstance many years ago where I was due to accompany kids on a school trip and there was a facility where a British group passport could be obtained for the pupils but teachers also had to hold a British Passport and I had to apply for an additional British Passport in order to accompany the pupils. The Irish Passport office didn’t offer the same facility at the time. I didn’t end up going on the trip as I got injured playing rugby and the British passport remained in a drawer until it expired but it didn’t erode my Irishness.
Although to be fair I certainly would think someone was not very principled if they chose their passport purely on the basis of cost.
I find it absolutely disgusting that any Irish nationalist could apply for a British passport let alone travel with one.
They should be ashamed of themselves and I think very little of them for their poor judgement.
Unprincipled would be putting it very mildly.
“I find it absolutely disgusting that any Irish nationalist could apply for a British passport let alone travel with one.”
Why?
Jude, it reminds me of being asked to a school debs (formal), by a girl who hadn’t a bit of interest in me at all, she was stuck, she only wanted me as she didn’t want to be on her own as she would look bad to her mates. That requited love as Yates talks about !
Unionists are just using their right to get a passport under the GFA, as it suits them to have an EU passport, even though they hate the GFA, the cross border arrangements and anything that hints at nationalist equality.
So i wouldn’t get flattered at all, its sickening really.
But deep down, we all know unionist are also loyal to the Half-crown (as well as the crown).
I’m one of those Unionists Jude who now has the application form for a Irish passport sitting on my desk at home waiting to be filled out.
I’ve come up with all sorts of reasons why I should get one such as, so I can travel, live and work unhindered in the EU, Medical care and the various EU citizens rights etc.
The real reason however that I plan to get an Irish passport is for two main reasons.
Firstly as a Pan European/Atlanticist, I am unhappy due to Brexit and I see getting a Irish passport as a way of holding onto my EU citizenship. I’m getting one partly out of protest I guess.
Secondly I’m hedging my bets. Not knowing what the post Brexit world will look like getting an Irish passport is simply a way of trying to get the best of both worlds.
I was never a polarised Unionist and always said if a convincing argument could be made for a UI I would vote for it. While Brexit hasn’t broken my Unionism it certainly has weakened it.
My passport, or, Irish passports bear the legend, ‘The Minister for Foreign Affairs of Ireland requests all whom it may concern to allow the bearer, a citizen of Ireland, to pas freely……’
The key here is, obviously, the person holding such Passport is Irish, now, in our forthcoming Irish Republic, as opposed to the flawed regime we currently enjoy, we guarantee the equal rights and opportunities of all citizens and cherishing them all equally, per the Proclamation of a century ago which was for the whole of Ireland, not just bit’s divided to suit English military requirement.
In light of this, our new Irish citizens should respect their Ministers call to provide all necessary assistance and protection, in their case, to the achievement of our Republic.
I cannot see this too much, and, frankly, I don’t see the political elite getting too far with attempting to persuade those of a unionist heritage to vote to be european rather than British but, the role of Finna Fail, Fine Gael, now, Sinn Fein, is to be persuaders for reunification, what the run on post offices, even the one at the top of Donegal Pass, shows is, we might have the opportunity, although, I doubt the present generation will be easy to persuade.
Brexit like beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. Ms May’s mantra that Brexit means Brexit leaves no sight to behold. Ms May was in the remain camp prior to the referendum and she now faces a hostile array of anti-European individuals at Westminster.
To date the north of Ireland does not appear to feature on Ms May’s list of priorities given the speed with which she met the leaders of Germany, France, Scotland and Wales. Political and commercial contacts between Dublin, Berlin and Paris increase with each passing day and there is exponential growth associated with the demand for Irish passports. An Irish man, woman or child does not need a passport in order to assert his/her Irish identity.
A UK passport, representing as it does part of Ireland, is no ‘less’ an Irish document than is a 26-county passport, which also represents part of Ireland. Haviing a passport from one part of Ireland rather than another doesn’t make anyone ‘more’ Irish than somebody who has one from the other part.
“Because it gives them a toehold in the EU. I’m not clear whether it restores their full rights in terms of EU citizenship.”
Strange comment. Only citizens of an EU country can obtain an EU passport so obviously if one has an EU passport one has ‘full rights’ of EU citizenship. However, such rights cannot be ‘restored’ to UK citizens, since UK citizens are already EU citizens and thus already enjoy ‘full rights’ of EU citizenship, notwithstanding the future change to that status at some undetermined point in the future.
In the meantime a Southern Irish passport brings no advantage in terms of the EU, and is unlikely to bring significant benefit over a UK passport even in the future, except possibly for tiny numbers of people who wish to live and work in the EU (and even then we still await the outcome of negotiations and it seems highly unlikely that UK citizens would be barred from doing so).
MT, by reversing your analysis, does this mean a UK passport, representing part of the UK is, therefore, no less a UK document?
There are, five ‘parts’ of the UK, the Welsh perhaps, when holding UK passports, are less liable to protection of the UK minister for external relations than a Scot.
“MT, by reversing your analysis, does this mean a UK passport, representing part of the UK is, therefore, no less a UK document?”
That doesn’t make sense. No less a UK document than what? Of course it’s a UK document.
“There are, five ‘parts’ of the UK, the Welsh perhaps, when holding UK passports, are less liable to protection of the UK minister for external relations than a Scot.”
Eh?,I’ve genuinely no idea what you’re trying to say.
I’m truly sorry MT, it really did seem quite simple to me, what is the problem?
“I’m truly sorry MT, it really did seem quite simple to me, what is the problem?”
Pretty much all of it.
I’m unaware if there being “five ‘parts’ of the UK” and it’s simply not true that Welsh people have any less protection as UK citizens as do.Scots.
All UK citizens have the same rights and protections.
MT, a UK passport does not represent part of Ireland, rather, it represents all of the UK, constitutionally.
The ‘five parts’ of the UK, per the recent dispute within the Tory, or toraidh, party, refers to the area consulted within that dispute, otherwise known as a referendum, notably, the six Ulster counties, Scotland, England, Wales and Gibraltar, I have not heard UK media calling for independence for Gibraltar within the EU, despite an even greater majority of it’s citizens voting ‘remain’ in the referendum by some 18500.
“MT, a UK passport does not represent part of Ireland, rather, it represents all of the UK, constitutionally.”
Er, the UK includes part of Ireland.
“The ‘five parts’ of the UK, per the recent dispute within the Tory, or toraidh, party, refers to the area consulted within that dispute, otherwise known as a referendum, notably, the six Ulster counties, Scotland, England, Wales and Gibraltar”
Gibraltar isn’t part of the UK.
You haven’t explained your bizarre claim that Welsh people with UK passports are less entitled to protection than Scots.
MT, it was not a claim, rather a question.
“MT, it was not a claim, rather a question”
A bizarre question. Why would one UK citizen be afforded less protection than another just because he was from Wales?
Response to your assertion on having your passport from ‘one part of Ireland’ the only parts of Ireland, really,,are it’s four,,although I prefer five, Provinces.
“Response to your assertion on having your passport from ‘one part of Ireland’ the only parts of Ireland, really,,are it’s four,,although I prefer five, Provinces.”
Eh? There are only two parts that have passports.
“Only citizens of an EU country can obtain an EU passport so obviously if one has an EU passport one has ‘full rights’ of EU citizenship”
Think this is the first time I have ever agreed with you MT……and its frightening me.
Yes if you have an EU passport then your entitled to all the benefits of the EU. In 2 years time if you hold only a British passport then say goodbye to free movement in the EU (unless Theresa May agrees to Free Movement with EU, which is being purposed but again this was key argument of leaving EU in first place: gaining control of immigration. You cant do that with Free Movement of people). So if your a proud Brit who loves heading to Spain for a Holiday or even to do some seasonal work with ease then those days are gone unless you travel on an Irish passport.
Indeed I expect tens of thousands (maybe even more) Brits in the coming years, when the UK is literally out of the EU because remember that hasn’t actually occurred yet, rushing to look up any Irish ancestry in their families and hence applying for the right to hold an Irish passport. Its estimated that 25% of the entire British population has at least one Irish Grandparent, indeed half of the England football team could opt to play for the Republic, Wayne Rooney, Harry Kane, Joe Hart, etc are just a few……even Tony Blair and his children have Irish passports…..I wouldn’t be surprised if a quarter of the British population had one as well in the coming years…..
“In 2 years time if you hold only a British passport then say goodbye to free movement in the EU (unless Theresa May agrees to Free Movement with EU, which is being purposed but again this was key argument of leaving EU in first place: gaining control of immigration. You cant do that with Free Movement of people). So if your a proud Brit who loves heading to Spain for a Holiday or even to do some seasonal work with ease then those days are gone unless you travel on an Irish passport.”
Utter nonsense.
“Utter nonsense”
Yes, MT, I’m sure the like of Spain or Portugal will just let any Brit continue to walk in and work in their country now that the UK is out of the EU.
I don’t think you understand how the EU works MT…..even the basics……
“Yes, MT, I’m sure the like of Spain or Portugal will just let any Brit continue to walk in and work in their country now that the UK is out of the EU.”
Eh? You said people would need a Southern Irish passport to go.on holiday to Spain or Portugal. Are you now admitting that is nonsense?
As for working, it remains to be seen what is negotiated, but even without free movement UK citizens would still be able to apply for work visas.
“I don’t think you understand how the EU works MT…..even the basics……”
I do. It’s you who appears not to understand since you thought leaving the EU means not being able to go on holiday to the EU.
“Yes, MT, I’m sure the like of Spain or Portugal will just let any Brit continue to walk in and work in their country now that the UK is out of the EU. ”
Well, that is not quite what you said Ryan. You said free movement would be gone.
First of all, I expect there will be a new agreement, but assuming there isn’t.
I was recently in Europe and I can tell you, Japanese, Australians, Chinese, Americans and many other non EU nationals seemed to be travelling pretty damn freely to me. They will have had to use the non EU queue at the airport.
Working, buying a home and living there will possibly be an issue, but how many working class people have that in their sights? In defending the EU are we really defending the rights of the wealthy and ignoring the interests of the less well off?
We have lost our way here.
A British passport is just as Irish as an Irish passport.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
“Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight”
Are you racist?
As you say Jude holding an Irish passport may be just an act of convenience to many Unionists but it could also cause a few to think differently in terms of identity.
Brexit has certainly caused a lot of soul searching and that may be one positive aspect to come out of it.
The question of Irish Identity poked its head above the parapet, Esteemed Blogmeister, as recently as yesterday down here in the capital city of the Free Southern Stateen. And in the form, oddly enough, of a question.
A question stroked in the direction of the Prime Minister at a joint press conference hosted by the buoyantly boyish PM et Le President de la Belle France in Le Chateau de Dublin.
The particular question in question immediately triggered a shovel-ready snigger from the assembled hackitariat of the homeland. A snigger of embarrassment, shame and utter mortification , such as might be expected in a domestic situation.
Like as when, in the middle of a very toney dinner party, the dining room door suddenly bursts open. At that precise moment when the prohibitively expensive French wine is being used to toast the exquisite taste of the hosts with the classy clink of cut-glass.
To reveal She who was supposed to be sound asleep in the converted, snore-insulated attic behind a locked door.
She, of course, being the gummy-mouthed Granny, upon whom an extra strong sleeping draught had been thoughtfully administered, earlier in the evening, just to be sure, like.
There She stands in all her inglorious state of deshabille : scraggly bird’s nest hair awry; scrawny, liver-spotted legs akimbo; and, the godawful clincher, with a colostomy bag in one hand, and something even more unmentionable in the other.
-I. thought. I. heard. a.. bugler.
(While Granny means burglar, of course, the hosts and guests alike nod their understanding as to what she actually has in her long gone mind)
The question at the depress Conference , of course, was asked in the Lephrechaun. With Granny, sans doute, acting out the cliché role of Mother Tongue.
And while the buoyantly boyish PM fielded an cheist after a fash he managed to let slip a Freudian focal of some finesse when handing over to Monsieur Le Pesident and addressing the latter as:
-Uachtaran na Fraincise.
He meant to say ‘na Fraince’ but it was ‘na Fraincise’ he said. In the German Q’s English this is a akin to saying ‘The President of the French Language’ rather than ‘The President of France’.
Out the mouth of the buoyantly boyish cometh the truth, if he but knoweth.
Of course, the question in Leprechaun also came across as Double Dutch to M. Hollande (car c’etait lui !). But, he need not have worried, for he was not alone. The question would also have been DD for the sophisticated local trigger-happy sniggerati.
This marks out the latter card-carrying members of the Neo-Know Nothing Party who curried their yoghurt yesterday as being subversives, or more specifically, subvERSEives. Given that the Leprechaun is still the (gulp) First National Language of the FSS (see passport)
In the constitution of La Belle France there is no such pious merde to be found; there it states, in letters bold, in letters old, in letters gold, in letters cold with logic:
-La Langue Francaise.
Just like Toulouse Lautrec , there is only one Langue Nationale.
A language like, say, Breton in the Land of Liberte, Equalite et Fraternite is not recognized as a language but rather as a – patois. Meanwhile, au sud de la Levee de la Truie Noire the language of Leprechaun is treated as a – Pat Ois.
It is to be sincerely hoped that l’entourage of Monsieur Le President was detoured in such a way as to avoid le coup d’etat d’oeil embodied in the statue (dating from 1957) which stands in front of the Custom House on Liffeyside. The one which features Mathair Eireann looking eastwards with a look defiant. The model in question was a mother of Sile De Valera.
The Perkin knows this because he was told so by the sculptor in q. on a visit once to his studio in Bray. The less than apologetic monuments of Yann Goulet (mar eisean a bhi ann !) are to viewed in such notable Centres of Submission / Milieux de Soumis as Baile an tSioda/ Ballyseedy and Crois Mhic Lionnain / Crossmaglen.
Yann Goulet had been sentenced to Cinq Salues Maries et Un Mort/ Five Hail Marys and One Death in his absence by a French Court in 1945 but when one found oneself in his presence in 1979 or so he was fos chomh slaintiuil le Strad /still as fit as a fiddle.
Sile de De Valera, curiously enough, was another stalwart of the Neo-Know Nothing Party. During her stellar spell as Aire na Gaeltachta/ Minister for the Gaeltacht sise Sile hadn’t two focals to rub together. Or if she had, did not opt to rub them.
Speaking of Fianna Failures, Yann Goulet was honoured with a posthumous Prix d’Honneur by none other than Eoghan ‘Sommer’ Harris, who is in the business of dispensing Prix and Kicks, big time.
In 2007, simmering, as ever, to the gills, he quilled: ‘ You do not need a degree in history to figure out that we are experts in denial. Anglophobia and Anti-Semiitism allowed us to shut the national door on Jewish children. At the same time it allowed us to put out the welcome mat for a nasty piece of goods like Goulet, friend of Fascism and traitor of Brittany’.
You have to hand it to the Unasommer all the same; he never fails to reduce one to a thigh-slapping heap of sniggers, not least when he is at his most solemn.
Tears on my pillow, Spears on my Brtiney.
I came across this today,
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/30000-take-part-in-our-united-ireland-border-poll-heres-how-they-voted-34900542.html
now, it is not often I read anything in this particular rag but, here, the results of a poll, of some thirty thousand persons, not the usual couple of thousand, polled in Groomsport or Lisburn, strikes me as interesting, time for the poll perhaps, albeit, I still can’t see it going how I, and many others, would wish.
“I still can’t see it going how I, and many others, would wish.”
Why not Mark? Why shouldn’t it go how we wish? The social and economic argument is on our side. If you ever hope to achieve anything, including winning a border poll, you must be confident.
If a border poll was held tomorrow morning I think it would be 40% for a United Ireland and 60% stay in UK. But if it was held in a few more years, especially when we see how damaged and wrecked our economy is due to Brexit (even though its already a basket case) I think it would be 55% for Irish Unity and 45% for stay in UK.
I’m not sure if this is true but I was told by Unionists that if there was a border poll then one must be held every 7 years. But even if just 40% of people in the North did vote for Irish Unity (I obviously believe we will win a border poll if its held at the right time) that would send shocks waves, especially against political Unionism. That would be far too close for comfort for them and a 2nd border poll would certainly be justified.
Its important not to compare a referendum here to the one held in Scotland. Scotland’s society is far different to ours and how its Government functions is very different to Stormont.
The reason ‘why not’ I feel is for the reason you have yourself put forward Ryan, the timing, presently.
In the longer term, yes, and probably not for reasons connected to the decisions of two of the nations comprising the UK to leave the EU, rather,here, because of demographics.
The other side of that is, how well off will our children, and ourselves, feel in a united state of europe, with higher taxes, including corporation tax since that’s what the clowns want, to what is available in the sovereign state of UK?
It is a big, or potentially big question and, as I have said before, I’d prefer the devil I know to the warmongering devil I don’t, Britain never imposed conscription on the Irish, even during WW1, the German’s probably will.
“It is a big, or potentially big question and, as I have said before, I’d prefer the devil I know to the warmongering devil I don’t, Britain never imposed conscription on the Irish, even during WW1, the German’s probably will.”
Are you saying you support the Union Mark? That means your not a Republican but a Unionist.
The EU isn’t going to survive long term. Do you seriously think all the countries in the EU will meekly join into a single state under the rule from Brussels or Berlin?
Austria is having a rerun of their Presidential Election where the Far Right Party came within 1% of winning. They took the result to the High Court of Austria and won, the court acknowledging there may have been electoral fraud or at least mistakes in the counting. So the Austrian election is being held again where the Far Right are expected to win.
Geert Wilders and his Freedom Party are gaining in the polls and are already the 3rd largest party in the Netherlands. Geert Wilders has to have 24/7 protection due to threats against his life from Dutch Muslim extremists. He backs deporting any foreigner who commits a crime, leaving the EU and outlawing Islam.
In France most commentators agree its just a matter of time before the French National Front attain the French Presidency. They back an EU exit, stopping all immigration, etc
In countries like Finland, Hungary, Italy, Greece, etc there are already big Anti-EU blocks.
The EU wont survive Mark but while it does exist it can be used as a vehicle by Irish and Scottish Nationalists to achieve our ultimate aims. If any Republican turns their back on this opportunity then your not a Republican. I’m not saying that as an insult, its just a fact: your simply not an Irish Republican.
“Are you saying you support the Union Mark? That means your not a Republican but a Unionist.”
No it doesn’t. There are some republican unionists.
“The EU wont survive Mark but while it does exist it can be used as a vehicle by Irish and Scottish Nationalists to achieve our ultimate aims. If any Republican turns their back on this opportunity then your not a Republican. I’m not saying that as an insult, its just a fact: your simply not an Irish Republican”
You have just proven my point that we are more divided than ever Ryan.
I am an Irish republican. I want what is best for Ireland and that I believe that is to reclaim our sovereignty and rebuild our relationship with Britain as one of equals for the first time in our history.
I don’t agree with the pathetic strategy you just outlined or the foolish games being played out by some sections of the republican leadership.
Sinn Fein backed Jeremy Corbyn and other like minded Labour people, who were supportive of Irish unification.
Now, that looks unlikely to work out, and now they have jumped on an opportunistic bandwagon to gain independence through relationship with the EU without any consideration of the economic or political consequences.
In a time when the whole world is moving towards federal unions and economic arrangements, please outline what economic relationship Ireland will have with the economic unions Britain is forming now or whatever remains of the EU in the minds or you REAL Republicans?
Unionism in Ireland was never simply about being part of the UK. It was about supremacy and control.
There is an attempt to portray unionism as being a simple preference to be British which you REAL Republicans are being sucked into.
But let me spell it out for you.
If you are saying wanting a total 32 county sovereign Irish nation, maintaining the common travel area and closer links with the future Britain evolving out of Brexit makes me no longer an Irish Republican but a Unionist, then I am indeed a unionist. But you are letting them off the hook from taking responsibility for their past actions.
The road you going down will fail, and ironically, it will be parties such as Fine Gael and the UUP who will unite Ireland, possibly by the two parties merging into one and becoming the largest party on this island.
Interesting times indeed.
Out of curiosity, who has the monopoly on who is or is not a Republican these days Ryan?
I agree with this Mark.
Unification for the reason of staying in the EU, first of all I believe is opportunistic and ignores the percentage who voted more on the border issue than in support of the EU.
Second, it ignores a significant vote against the EU, the majority of which are unionist.
How would they feel if there was a vote to not only leave the UK but join Europe?
Interpol are talking out their arses if they think there would be no threat to peace by unification to remain in Europe. They are only interested in limiting the number of countries leaving the EU for fear of a domino effect.
Britain is our biggest trading partner, there is a significant Irish population in Britain and there is significant affinity with Britain throughout all of Ireland.
Yes, I want a united and sovereign Ireland, but I don’t see that coming through dropping London and handing over the reigns to the Brussels. Proxy to Berlin.
There must be a new relationship with Britain which is being negotiated, it must include a full sovereignty option, full continuance of the common travel area, I would like to see us leave the Eurozone and have our currency once again pegged with Sterling and to participate in the development of a new free trade area with other nations around the globe.
Scotland will end up keeping its financial sector with the Bank of England losing autonomy over sterling and it being shared with Scotland.
Whether we like it or not, our best future as a nation lies with closer ties to Britain and not the EU.
‘I say that as someone with children (well, ex-children) who hold Canadian passports, since that’s where they were born. Do they think of themselves as Canadian? Nope’
Ahh but does your children live in Canada Jude? I’m assuming they live in Ireland, so of course they don’t feel Canadian. But that’s not exactly the same situation Unionists find themselves in. They live in Ireland. Yes it may be a part of Ireland that is part of the UK but its still Irish. Indeed many Unionists call themselves Irish AND British. I believe Ian Paisley Snr always seen himself as Irish. Lord Carson described himself as Irish, not Northern Irish. It was Loyalist Leader David Ervine (Boy, does Loyalism need his leadership today!….) who is recorded telling Loyalists to “Wise up, of course your Irish but you can be British and a Loyalist too. I’ve always seen myself as Irish”. So there definitely is a large group of Unionists who do see themselves as Irish, they maybe don’t shout about it but still they regard themselves as Irish.
Will Unionists having Irish passports due to Brexit change much? Will they see themselves as Irish instead of British? In the short term: No. But I think the topic we’re dealing with here is Psychology. There’s a reason why some Unionist areas are absolutely decked out in Unionist flags for most of the year, its because those Unionists are very insecure about their identity, hence the need to see a British flag every two minutes. But there’s also a fear as well that other Unionists, especially the young, may not think of themselves as British or might be confused about their identity. So they put up flags, bunting, etc to reinforce the message “We’re British and don’t you forget it!”. Loyalist paramilitaries have this sort of mentality. Hence why they were behind the flag protests in 2012. Again those protests was more about a crisis of identity (and a loss of Unionist dominance in Belfast) than anything else.
A Unionist having an Irish passport can only weaken the impression in their mind that they are British. This occurs at a subconscious level, in my opinion. The mind is very easily influenced, it takes time but it can be influenced without a person even realizing. I think political Unionism in the past knew this, hence the drive to have British symbols everywhere. If anyone has been in Stormont or Belfast City Hall (I have, both on school trips) they will know what I mean. British symbolism is everywhere. That is why SF always call the Northern state (see what I did there? I refused to even name Northern Ireland to influence other’s not to as well) “The North” in order influence the minds of their listeners. There’s always been a battle to influence the minds of people here. Hence why the DUP, particularly Gregory Campbell, want to force Catholics to play for the NI football team because anyone from the North having the option to play for the Republic can only reinforce the impression they are Irish, not British.
But when it comes to the battle between Unionism and Nationalism to influence people here in the 6 counties, its Nationalism that has the advantage. We live in Ireland. We all speak with Irish accents. We’re all classed as Irish by the World, even many an English Minister (with a slip of the tongue) has called us Irish. Indeed every new Secretary of State gets briefed on what terms to use or not to use when taking on the Job.
I believe many Unionists will class themselves as Irish first and British second in time. Unionists getting Irish passports can only bring that day along a tiny bit quicker. Indeed one Unionist wrote a letter to the Newsletter the day after Brexit saying he now supported a United Ireland……
PS: Has anyone seen the Belfast Telegraph poll online? Over 35,000 people have voted so far and 73% have backed a United Ireland…..
“But that’s not exactly the same situation Unionists find themselves in. They live in Ireland. Yes it may be a part of Ireland that is part of the UK but its still Irish. Indeed many Unionists call themselves Irish AND British. I believe Ian Paisley Snr always seen himself as Irish. Lord Carson described himself as Irish, not Northern Irish. It was Loyalist Leader David Ervine (Boy, does Loyalism need his leadership today!….) who is recorded telling Loyalists to “Wise up, of course your Irish but you can be British and a Loyalist too. I’ve always seen myself as Irish”. So there definitely is a large group of Unionists who do see themselves as Irish, they maybe don’t shout about it but still they regard themselves as Irish.”
You seem to be confusing being Irish with being a citizen of the 26 counties. We’re Irish in NI too.
“You seem to be confusing being Irish with being a citizen of the 26 counties. We’re Irish in NI too.”
Then is it not time MT, that we united all of the Irish people and form one sovereign Irish nation including a new union with Britain that all of us can be happy with?
“Then is it not time MT, that we united all of the Irish people and form one sovereign Irish nation including a new union with Britain that all of us can be happy with?”
Is it not time that we united all of the people of the British Isles and form one sovereign nation that all of us can be happy with?
I think MT might have a parrot whispering in his ear….