I was surprised to see tens of thousands of people out demonstrating in London last Saturday against Britain’s decision to leave the EU. Not because I don’t think there are tens of thousands of British people who are appalled to the point of tears by what their fellow-countrymen and women have done. No, the surprising thing was that it was all arranged and carried out with scarcely any pre-publicity. The organisers say they ‘ll be back with even more if the government doesn’t listen to them.
Brendan Behan figured that when a group of republicans came together, the first item on the agenda was The Split. The same could be said of the UK today. It’s split not just in two. Over the core question of leaving Europe 52% want to leave, 48% want to stay. The UK is also split by ‘region’.Wales has obediently sided with England in the debate, Scotland has firmly indicated it wants to stay in Europe, as has the north of Ireland.
When faced with these uncomfortable facts, Leavers like Arlene Foster say that it was a UK-wide vote, not a vote by regions. This is how democracy works. Just because you didn’t get the answer you would have liked doesn’t mean there’s something invalid about it. The people have spoken, so suck it up, Scotland and NI.
So is that it? Scotland may feel it’s been electorally mugged, we may feel the same, but we are tied to the tails of England and Wales?
Maybe. But this UK-wide division of opinion -52% to 48% – has a local echo. Just as there are two near-equal sides in the BREXIT debate holding passionately contrary views, so in the north of Ireland there has been a majority in favour of union with Britain and a sizeable minority wanting to end that union. How did we handle it? Well, for fifty years the majority did things their way – after all they were the majority, that’s how democracy works. And so for fifty years we got gerrymander and discrimination and other unpleasant things. “Accept democracy!” nationalists and republicans were told, as the bands thundered through their streets.
Alas, the fifty years of undiluted ‘democracy’ was followed by thirty years of armed conflict. Why? Because the majority dismissed the discontent of the minority. Things are far from perfect now, but at least unionism has been taught the hard way that you cannot hobnail-boot your way over others, simply because you’re bigger than them.
So back to the present day. What can be done to accommodate the masses of people throughout Britain, but particularly in Scotland and the north of Ireland, who want no hand, act or part of this decision to leave the EU?
Well, in Scotland Nicola Sturgeon has made clear what she wants: a second independence referendum. The fact that she got the cold shoulder in Brussels from such leaders as the acting Spanish prime minister, Mariano Rajoy Brey, hasn’t discouraged her . If anything it has stiffened Scottish resolve. Should remaining part of the EU means leaving the UK, then so be it.
Here, we have a gap of twelve percentage points between those who wish to remain in Europe (56%) and those who are glad to see the back of Europe (44%). It’s no good telling the Remainers that they’re a UK minority. The north always has been a place apart. If we’re yanked out of Europe, we’ll suffer the problems that Scotland – and London – would face; but in addition we’ll have a land-border with the EU.
No, don’t sigh or roll your eyes, Virginia – that border is set to become a bigger problem than ever. It’ll stifle trade between the north and the south. It’ll be an unguardable entry-point for immigrants seeking to get into Britain. And if, as some have suggested, Britain deals with that problem by reinforcing security at her ports and airports, and giving only lip-service to enforcing the border here, there are going to be some very unhappy DUPers gritting their teeth as they’re asked for their passport when they try to enter what they consider their own country.
If Boris and Nigel and Michael had wanted to destabilize all aspects of the UK, they couldn’t have done a better job. Of course, having done the damage, Boris and Nigel have hurried off-stage, while Michael has been given the boot by his own party. God help us all.
Hypothetical question for you Jude.
If a border poll resulted in a 52% for a united Ireland and 48% against in NI, what would you say if unionism refused to accept it and demanded a revote with 10000 people gathering to protest in Belfast with the organisers saying they ‘ll be back with even more if the government doesn’t listen to them?
funny ole world innit.not long ago the democracy deniers were wanting voting made compulsory and now when 17million people come out and vote they want to move the goal posts.i saw one of their protests on tv full of the usual suspects eco warriors,bunny huggers,veggies ect you know the type.same crowd were at the labour protest getting their 3quid membership paid for them so they can vote for corbyn.
billy
Lay off us veggies if you don’t mind.
Your attitude is typical of the do-no-gooders brigade!
why,are veggies of the menu when it comes to criticism.as for attitudes being typical of the do no gooders brigade its the opposite really you just cant see it.and me thinking carrots were good for your eyesight..well in saying that ive never seen a rabbit running about wearing glasses.
billy
I’m just making generalisations as you like to do.
How do you know there were a significant number of veggies marching and why would you think it worth mentioning?
Interesting, question, Jessica, thanks for asking it.
I will be very annoyed PF, if this opportunity to unite a vast majority of the people on this island from a broad range of opinions including unionists such as yourself is squandered seeking polarised solutions or easy options.
I used to see Fine Gael as an obstacle to unification, strange that I now have a feeling that the conservatives in England might throw into their lap an opportunity to unite this island and at the same time curb the growth of Sinn Fein. I don’t think they (SF) have spotted it yet though.
Jessica
I entered a comment earlier this evening which may appear below. I wouldn’t want you to overestimate my interest a more united island – I suspect that I can much more easily live with the current arrangements than you can – but I do think that a better solution than the one we have at the moment is possible, and it is one which stands the chance of more equally representing all of our traditions, both on this island and beyond it. Polarisation does not help that one jot, and sometimes I wonder why some nationalists fail to see this – don’t they realise that there is no better way of galvanising Unionists than telling they can’t do something?
I have also long wondered why Unionists don’t live up their name and seek to convince parties like Fine Gael of the benefits of stronger links with Britain.
If Unionists were too anti the Republic to allow them to build a different but better UK, and Sinn Fein were too anti the UK to allow them build a different but better Ireland, it would be irony indeed.
So after all your talk you would be happy to live in a divided Ireland?
Any wonder I don’t trust unionists.
Anyway, it is out of our hands now PF.
London and Dublin will decide the future relationship between these islands.
A declining unionist population is not going to prevent the improving relationship between the two capitals cities on these islands any more than pessimistic nationalism will.
“So after all your talk you would be happy to live in a divided Ireland?”
First of all I have never identified as anything other than unionist. Secondly, conversation (everything should be on the table, as you said) means exploring possibilities and I have also clearly said that I could envision a United Ireland within a new kind of UK/Union of the Isles etc. That is something no other Unionist I know of is talking about.
But of course, being a Unionist, even one who tires of ‘Little-Northern-Irelandism’, means that (and these are the words I actually wrote), means that “I suspect that I can much more easily live with the current arrangements than you can…” Surely this would be obvious?
“Any wonder I don’t trust unionists.”
It would be a pity if a single turn of phrase in an otherwise open and reasonable conversation would lead to a lack of trust.
The rest I agree with.
PF, Unionism has no right to keep this country divided. If you believe we are better off in a union with Britain that is fine, but if it is at the expense of crippling our economy, denying our national sovereignty, gerrymandering a sectarian state and harbouring division of our people then that is nothing to be proud off.
If you can live with such division then we have very little in common at all.
Unionism has not helped at all to foster anywhere near as positive a relationship with England as Dublin has. You are not the only protestant from a unionist background who is prepared to embrace their Irishness, who understands our history is more complex than most and that republicanism has changed sides between catholic and protestant depending on the religion of the monarchy of England.
What is important is equality for all of our people and if you are declaring yourself a unionist, then you need to accept that what Ryan has said is right, Unionism through its political leaders must acknowledge these things just as republican leaders have done already, individuals with good intentions such as you or I cannot do it for them.
The British state must likewise satisfactorily resolve outstanding legacy issues. It will soon be more in their interest to do so than ever before. Yet another positive change post brexit. Why any republican should be pro EU I do not know.
I do want Ireland to have a better relationship with England, but it has nothing to do with Unionism. It is genuine and what I honestly believe will be best for our economies and will help resolve our outstanding legacy issues. I have no interest whatsoever in convincing unionism to do anything, nor have I any interest in unionism really at all. It is irrelevant to me.
Now Jessica you should know that Jude has cut down on ‘commenting on comments’.
So please stop asking excellent questions which demolish his contorted ‘reasoning’.
This blog is a democracy after all.
Actually Jessica.
No need to be hypothetical.
The 1918 election was very much viewed as an independence vote – but although the Nationalist vote was massive, the performance of some Northern counties as exceptions sowed the seeds of partition down the line – and we all know how that worked out.
The UK has voted to leave the EU.
Much though I am against NI being part of the UK, it most certainly is right now.
NI will leave the EU with the UK – as has been democratically established.
Rather than decrying the results of the referendum our energies should be focused on reminding folks that partition is not in our best interests as we will follow the UK’s bidding while it remains in place. NI has no say or self determination while part of the UK. End of.
“NI has no say or self determination while part of the UK.”
Well, we can spin this any which way we choose.
As a Unionist I might say:
That I seek no self-determination as part of the UK – to be united in that direction is already the self-determination I have chosen, and is kind of the point of that kind of unionism – its certainly in my economic interests.
That NI will have no say or self determination while part of a United Ireland – which would be kind of the point if a person were that way inclined, being, as it would be, the end of Northern Ireland.
That the Republic of Ireland no longer has the kind of say or self determination envisioned by the Leaders of the Rising while part of the EU. “End of.”
And I might also say that the question of Partition is not necessarily connected to the issue of Brexit – a United Ireland, surely, must stand on its own merits, Brexit or no Brexit, EU or no EU – it is *Ireland* you guys wish to unite, isn’t it?? I mean, what Union are we talking about here?
One thing is clear to me in my short time on this blog, only Jessica appears to have grasped how Ireland might one day be united. Can’t anyone else see that for all their cries that the (UK) Union is safe, that Northern Ireland’s Unionists, including the DUP, and having (foolishly) never signed up to full integration in the first place (1920 and all that), have already agreed in practice to all kinds of practical unification, and that that, if nationalists truly want a United Ireland, is the line to pursue, rather than the endless demonising of the ‘northern State’?
Not to mention a certain majority that carried a certain treaty.
There are many ways Ireland could be united PF, the only differences would be timelines.
In fact Ireland is already on the path to unification, but it is a slow and steady path, like death by a thousand cuts.
Our infrastructure is all island, our banks are all island, energy is delivered through an all island network, more health services are being handed over to Dublin, tourism and promotion is all island, etc….
Ireland will always be one country, NI will only exist while there is a UK.
England is much closer and has a far better relationship today with the south of Ireland than the north and that is unlikely to change into the future.
I want to be part of that better relationship with England, but it will only happen via Dublin.
At the moment Sinn Fein are extending the hand of friendship and Dublin is bending over backwards while dressed like a tart, crossing its legs and flashing her knickers.
Unionism is in decline, it will be gradual but you are over the peak and the decline will get steeper with each election.
I would prefer to make peace while unionism is at its strongest but we are already past that point and it wont be going back.
With a pact with Fine Gael, northern unionism would together easily have a majority in a Dublin parliament which could be devolved to Stormont.
Unification will be the only way to prevent Sinn Fein coming to power north and south at the same time.
We have no idea at this time, how that will play out.
To me, we are all Irish anyway. I could never be proud of my country if relying on hand outs. I believe in working hard and earning my way and NI has never done that. It is time we matured and took our place in the world on our own merits. It is time our whole country was united and treated as equals by our neighbours across the water with whom we have so much in common.
“In fact Ireland is already on the path to unification, but it is a slow and steady path, like death by a thousand cuts.
Our infrastructure is all island, our banks are all island, energy is delivered through an all island network, more health services are being handed over to Dublin, tourism and promotion is all island, etc….”
And all, as I have said before, with the agreement of both Unionist parties in Northern Ireland.
I simply wish they were more honest about this: their inevitable direct of travel, and could also see that their insistence that ‘the Union is safe’ is simply not true.
To paraphrase another Collins, Ireland is now free to be free, everybody else missed that at the time, and it seems lots of people are missing it again.
“With a pact with Fine Gael, northern unionism would together easily have a majority in a Dublin parliament which could be devolved to Stormont.”
Do I hear you arguing for devolution from Dublin rather than devolution from London?
“And all, as I have said before, with the agreement of both Unionist parties in Northern Ireland.”
I have no idea what agreement they would have been in a position to give PF. These things are not really up to politicians, business and general necessity will over rule their wishes. Don’t forget, it is not the politicians who run countries but the civil servants employed to do these jobs. Politicians will have a degree of influence to a point but will do more than nudge in general directions.
“I simply wish they were more honest about this: their inevitable direct of travel, and could also see that their insistence that ‘the Union is safe’ is simply not true.”
Perhaps they mean it is no longer under any threat from Sinn Fein which would be true. I would say it is on its last legs but that is more to do with peoples choice mainly in Scotland deciding they want more control of their own direction.
“To paraphrase another Collins, Ireland is now free to be free, everybody else missed that at the time, and it seems lots of people are missing it again.”
I don’t think that’s what he had in mind PF, but in todays context, Ireland is currently not free at all. The south are under the cosh of Germany and the north from London.
“Do I hear you arguing for devolution from Dublin rather than devolution from London?”
Many people on this site have suggested this for some time now PF.
In the very near future, it will be the only way a unionist party could maintain a majority in Stormont. Think about it.
If there is a united Ireland, an agreed relationship with Britain such as a more federal union for example, we would all be Irish and the national issues would be null and void so in those circumstances, there would no longer even be a need to have union in the name of a political party as it would be sorted and our votes would be on economic and social policies only. Bear in mind, I may have a lot of respect for James Connolly as a revolutionary who gave his life for Ireland, but I consider his economic policies and anything like communism abhorrent.
The 1918 election sowed no seeds, it was denial of democracy plain and simple.
Scotland is not being partitioned as a result of the referendum and it will require an independence referendum before the region can be separated, the 6 counties in Ireland were not a region and were not given a democratic election. 30% of the people remaining in the new gerrymandered state had voted for independence, and since Catholics were discriminated against electorally and women had no vote and were a majority of the population, makes it all the more wrong.
What we are witnessing today should prove to any reasonable minded unionist that partition then was wrong.
There has to date never been a vote for a separate Northern Ireland state and it has weakened the economy of those living here, divided not only our people nationally, but also divided unionists who remain in the other counties outside northern Ireland such as those who attended the orange parades yesterday in Donegal who were from counties in Ulster and Connacht.
Partition will prevent both economies on this island from reaching our potential, it reduces Irelands bargaining in trade negotiations, reduces our internal market, creates additional wastage in administration which hurts public services which would collapse in the north altogether if it weren’t for England funding them at considerable expense which is unlikely to continue in the new dispensation. It has created unhealthy polarisation of society and has already led to conflict and will maintain a strong ethos of sectarian culture while it remains.
The UK will not survive in its current arrangements, it will need a new more federal agreement between the nations or independence with agreed relations at least.
All of Ireland should be negotiating along with Scotland as to how that relationship should be. Ireland and Scotland have more in common with each other than we do with England.
Well we know the EU referendum wont be rerun Jessica because the British Government has already rejected a petition signed by millions to have it rerun. The majority in Britain want Brexit but that doesn’t mean Scotland or the North have to put up with their lot.
Scotland will have to choose between either the EU or the UK, it can only be one, not both. A second Independence referendum is pretty much inevitable and I think it will be a clear Yes to Independence this time round, most newspapers/polls clearly show that now. Whereas most polls in 2014 were very close but mostly a No vote to Independence, today the polls are the exact opposite, very close but mostly a Yes to Independence. One poll even had Pro-Independence at over 60%.
Rory Mcllroy came out this week in the Belfast Telegraph and suggested that the people of the North consider the benefits of Irish Unity now that NI is out of the EU. Brexit really will cause massive problems here in the North, both socially and economically. I cant see border controls returning, so people coming from NI will have to show their passports when going into Britain. We will lose EU funding/investment and if Unionists are hoping for Westminster to replace that funding then their hope was vain before Brexit even happened because Villiers made it clear they wont be replacing it. Indeed Westminster has even torpedoed the 50,000 new jobs a low Corporation Tax rate would’ve brought to the North by lowering the UK’s as a whole. I already thought they would do something like that, I just couldn’t see them allowing us to gain so many jobs mostly at the expense of hitting investment going to England. It shows, as usual, they don’t give a fiddlers fart about people here, Protestant or Catholic. But Unionists refuse to acknowledge this.
It will be interesting to see how wealthy Unionists will react to the DUP over Brexit because they depend on trade cross border and unrestricted access to the EU. Many of them have always been small u unionists anyway, so we could be seeing a major shift in opinion amongst the likes of the people from North Down or Bangor. I don’t see any change happening when it comes to working class Unionists, many voted Brexit solely because they thought it would make Irish Unity less likely lol
“Scotland will have to choose between either the EU or the UK, it can only be one, not both.”
It could have neither.
England can be vindictive and the EU might struggle to get all members agreeing to allow Scotland in at all.
The EU has overstretched itself and is becoming not only economically unstable but politically.
“Rory Mcllroy came out this week in the Belfast Telegraph and suggested that the people of the North consider the benefits of Irish Unity now that NI is out of the EU.”
I never knew that, now that is a surprise.
“Brexit really will cause massive problems here in the North, both socially and economically. I cant see border controls returning, so people coming from NI will have to show their passports when going into Britain. ”
That depends on the next PM and their attitude to NI.
Michael Gove would have started the conflict again, if whoever gets in has him in their ear it could be bad for peace here.
“Indeed Westminster has even torpedoed the 50,000 new jobs a low Corporation Tax rate would’ve brought to the North by lowering the UK’s as a whole. I already thought they would do something like that, I just couldn’t see them allowing us to gain so many jobs mostly at the expense of hitting investment going to England. It shows, as usual, they don’t give a fiddlers fart about people here, Protestant or Catholic. But Unionists refuse to acknowledge this. ”
If they didn’t protect their economy, how could they afford to pay the subvention
Don’t forget, until we mature politically and unite this island into one country again, NI will remain a charity case and beggars cant be choosers.
“It will be interesting to see how wealthy Unionists will react to the DUP over Brexit because they depend on trade cross border and unrestricted access to the EU.”
It is unlikely to be effected, by the EU anyway but if they want guaranteed no risk access to the whole islands markets then that can only happen with unity.
The bigger market is east west though so it is in the interests of both parts of the island maintaining good trade relations with England.
Another hypothetical question for you Jude.
If a majority or people voted for the removal of water charges in Ireland and the EU said no, a majority in the EU say there must be water charges, Ireland should just suck it up. Should the Irish people simply accept that?
Perhaps Michael Gove could write columns for the SINDO and THE TARA STREET-WALKER?
He described the 1916 Insurgents as “squalid gangs who betrayed Ireland” when he had a
column in “THE THUNDERER ”
His spouse, writing in the “HURRAH FOR THE BLACKSHIRTS” DAILY MAIL, enthused like
a groupie of the dash he cut in his TURNASS & BULL’ER dressing gown.
52% to 48% is a majority,if a vote in favour for a united ireland went this way would you want a rerun should they have rerun fermanagh tyrone won on a vote.the quicker they trigger article 50 and get a few new laws in place the border thing will hardly matter it will be irelands entry points that will be under pressure as that is were migrants will head.why would they want in to the uk when there would be nothing for them.
COMMONWEALTH AGAIN
Messers Farage, Johnson and Gove
Such a triumvirate of coves, by Jove
Cobh, as is well known
Used be Queenstown
If John A ‘ad his way we’d rejoin the t. trove.
(John A. is short, btw, for John A. Murphy (90), Professor Emeritus of Detritus Studies, Queen’s College, Cork / aka De Re-bel County, boy).
‘Fresh start’ and ‘new politics’ appear to be past their sell by dates in the wake of the proposed Brexit with the political casualty toll rising by the day. Given the ongoing political instability it should come as no surprise that some are voting with their feet as tax free incentives for teachers in the United Arab Emirates are proving to be attractive options at the present time.
In the past week, evidence has emerged yet again of financial mismanagement, with the costs associated with a biomass fuel scheme calculated in millions of pounds now being borne by the tax payer. In the wake of such revelations, the standard response from politicians tends to be, “lessons will be learned.” It would appear that it is the wrong people who are leaving the country at present.
Probably because it was the current first minister that was responsible for the millions of pounds lost. I wonder had it been the deputy minister would things be so calm over it?
“Now laughing friends deride/Tears I cannot hide/When a lovely flame dies/Smoke
gets in your eyes.”
Slaves sometimes love their servitude
A kind of ‘Stockholm syndrome’.
The bondage becomes a ‘political fetish’.
They ‘self flagellate’ because their ‘masters’ tell them they will have a better life next time….
As they fill their pockets.
Is this EU?
If would be unreasonable for Unionists, such as I, to try to absolve their community of guilt with regard to Ireland, or to pretend that they have no share in the blame for all our troubles; but I fail to see how the constant rehearsal of the narrative in paragraphs such as this:
“Alas, the fifty years of undiluted ‘democracy’ was followed by thirty years of armed conflict. Why? Because the majority dismissed the discontent of the minority. Things are far from perfect now, but at least unionism has been taught the hard way that you cannot hobnail-boot your way over others, simply because you’re bigger than them.”
helps the cause of peace, or of uniting this island – not to mention the obvious irony contained within.
“helps the cause of peace, or of uniting this island – not to mention the obvious irony contained within.”
PF, in order to have peace and reconciliation people must be open about their wrongs. Unionists, by far, are the people who still pretend the most that they did nothing wrong. I’ll give you a few examples:
Stephen Nolan once asked Gregory Campbell did he want to apologize to Catholics due to all the Discrimination, Sectarianism, etc from Unionism towards the Catholic community over the years, his reply? “Apologize for what??”.
Nelson McCausland was on the Nolan TV show debating with Danny Morrison earlier this year. When Danny was talking about the treatment of Catholics by the RUC, B Specials, etc Nelson sat with a strange smile on his face, as if he was holding back a laugh. Even Stephen Nolan was frowning at him. Then Nelson even started giggling. It wasn’t until an audience member put him in his place did he suddenly straighten up because he could see he was losing the argument.
Unionists today still turn a blind eye to all the Collusion revelations, they still come off with the old, long defeated argument of ” a few bad apples” but yet in the Collusion report into Loughisland, one RUC officer was described as a “Good apple in a bad Orchard” because so many RUC were corrupt, were involved with Loyalist paramilitaries or were taking orders from Special Branch.
I could go on.
So no PF, Unionists do need to be reminded of their past because they played a very VERY big part in starting the troubles in the first place and they still haven’t even acknowledged never mind apologized for it. It was Gusty Spence who said he was paid to start a sectarian war by the Unionist Government. First RUC man killed? By UVF. First sectarian murder committed? By UVF. First bombings? By the UVF. And the UVF/UDA were always very cosy with Unionist political parties, even today! Just last month an active UDA commander was pictured with Theresa Villiers! the DUP were even trying to get a group connected to the UDA a grant!
The IRA has apologized for any innocent people killed, Sinn Fein has acknowledged the hurt caused by the IRA, they have sat down and had very difficult conversations in public, they have repeatedly reached out to Unionism. Political Unionism has done none of this. Even Queen Elizabeth has done more for reconciliation here in the past 4 years than Unionism has in 40!
You cant have reconciliation, peace and unity unless everyone opens up about the past, accepts it, acknowledges it and apologizes. Turning the blind eye wont work or bring peace.
Ryan, please do try to understand this, if nothing else; when you write as you do, lumping everyone together, even people like me, having written what I have written, recoil.
There were many, many people, on both side of our ‘Troubles’ who were involved in nothing. They went about there business, raised their children, worked in their communities and kept their heads down.
Many people, including myself, knew and had friends from ‘both sides of the divide’; and that is still the case.
Stereotyping communities helps no one.
We are only individuals PF.
It takes political leadership to effect positive change.
I think Mike Nesbitt will be the first to apologise on behalf of unionism for those actions of unionism which started the conflict, before stepping aside as UUP leader.
Don’t underestimate how much that would mean.
“Stereotyping communities helps no one”
PF, no offence but that’s just a cop out. It sounds like someone who doesn’t want to take responsibility for what their community got up to. Let me explain.
The UUP or the DUP would NEVER have been able to do all the things they did without the support of the Unionist community. Election after election hundreds of thousands of Unionists came out and voted for them knowing their policies, knowing their hostility towards the Catholic community and knowing all about the discrimination, the sectarianism, etc. Indeed its been proven time after time that the more hardcore a Unionist party gets, the more votes they tend to get. Hence why the DUP/UUP get very intolerant and hostile towards Republicans/Catholics on the Eve of Elections.
Now Sinn Fein didn’t get anywhere near to eclipsing the SDLP electorally when the troubles were going on. It wasn’t until SF signed up to the peace process that they finally gained large electoral breakthrough’s because of their support for peace. That shows that the Nationalist community were pretty much the opposite of the general Unionist community. Indeed when the UUP supported the GFA it was after that when the DUP (who rejected it) eclipsed the UUP electorally.
I’m not saying all Unionists are guilty of the evils/wrongs of the UUP/DUP but many of them do hold a level of blame for which they need to acknowledge and accept. If I were to say that all the Whites in South Africa hold no responsibility whatsoever for Apartheid, any reasonable person would rightly say that was a ridiculous assertion. The same goes for Unionists. They hold a certain amount of blame for the Old Unionist Stormont and the violent reaction to the peaceful civil rights movement which sparked off the Troubles.
“You cant have reconciliation, peace and unity unless everyone opens up about the past, accepts it, acknowledges it and apologizes. Turning the blind eye wont work or bring peace.”
I agree 100% Ryan
Unionism will not be allowed to get away with not acknowledging its role in staring and enflaming the conflict and its behaviour
I still wont trust any unionist but PF has been the closest to changing my mind on this
“Unionism will not be allowed to get away with not acknowledging its role in staring and enflaming the conflict and its behaviour
I still wont trust any unionist but PF has been the closest to changing my mind on this”
I think PF is unwilling to accept that Unionists were to blame for much of the Troubles Jessica. Its not easy accepting when your wrong but its essential for peace.
Take Ian Paisley for example. In Westminster he accused one of the Reavey brothers of committing the Kingsmills Massacre. Mr Reavey lost 2 of his brothers the night before Kingsmills to a UVF murder squad who was protected by the RUC. Not only that, his mother and his family were mocked for many years afterwards by RUC officers. Even when the RUC came to the family home immediately after the murders, their attitude was described as “They (Reavey Brothers) didn’t get it for nothing”.
Despite Mr Reavey being cleared of any wrong doing just a few years ago and there being absolutely no evidence against him, Ian Paisley STILL refused to apologize for accusing him of committing Kingsmills. Its important to remember too that Paisley’s accusations put Mr Reavey’s life in danger too. The Kingsmills families didn’t believe Mr Reavey was involved in Kingsmills and always believed his innocence.
My point is that there’s many Unionists like Paisley. Most simply don’t want to admit when they are wrong. Most simply delude themselves that they are innocent and they have done nothing wrong and if they did do anything wrong (like the UVF murdering innocent Catholics, which was a key policy) then it was justified, in other words: it wasn’t wrong at all or the end justified the means.
I believe PF is a similar type of Unionist. He was clearly rattled by Jude bringing up Unionist past wrongs and he clearly urged Jude to stop bringing it up, why? because he didn’t want to be reminded of those wrongs and he didn’t want to accept responsibility for those wrongs or see his community being urged to accept and acknowledge their wrongs. That attitude doesn’t help foster peace, it hinders it.
Ian Paisley said he would use the DUP as a cover for loyalist gun attacks.
That means providing cover for murders committed by people such as Robin Jackson and Billy Wright and their accomplices who killed the Reavey family members.
The DUP are certainly good at dishing out the sackcloth and ashes
Unionism has yet to acknowledge any responsibility whatsoever PF. They have been pursuing a blame republicans policy to rewrite the conflict as nothing more than a PIRA terror campaign and you are the only unionist I am aware of to ever have the courage to move outside of that context.
There are MPs such as Michael Gove who along with many unionists here would be more than happy for the British army to come back over enforce to man the border, initiate an armed response from republicans to reignite the conflict so they can win the war outright.
There is a declining unionist population PF and it is understandable that you see Britain as your security blanket, well many nationalists for some reason see the EU as a similar safety net.
The republic of Ireland was never there for nationalists, and they never will be, it was the PIRA who protected us then and they no longer exist, there is no army now. If the British army come back to line the border, they will not be here to fight dissidents as they might think, there will be no repeat of the conflict, no return to a long war, no more dirty conflicts, no more convert operations. They are finished forever.
What there will be is a very short and very bloody civil war which will be fought in our streets, that will sicken the English people and the world so much that a permanent solution will be decided for us.
It is up to all of us to ensure this doesn’t happen and living in the past will not help. Brexit has offered a catalyst for change, but it is up to us to choose what change we want to see and how soon we want it.
Many will be uncomfortable with the change, they will want to go back to their comfort zones of the old orange green arguments that they are familiar with, they would happier to be criticising intolerance from our polarised communities and pointing out how racist everyone is but ignoring tough choices.
Well sooner or later tough choices are going to have to be made and it is my opinion that Brexit has potentially brought them forward to have to be made sooner than was expected.
It is no accident that Donegal has just hosted over 50 orange lodges from counties Donegal, Cavan, Leitrim and Monaghan as well as Northern Ireland all taking place peacefully as a traditional family day out with good cross community relations.
These are the steps towards unification and this is how a future united Ireland will be.
If unionism doesn’t want that, then it can choose another option. We will all have to make our own choices and live with them.
“at least unionism has been taught the hard way that you cannot hobnail-boot your way over others”
I don’t think they have learnt that lesson Jude. Even whilst they see themselves being an inevitable minority in as little as 2 years (Catholics are already the slight majority in the workforce) the Unionist ideology of “Not an Inch” is still rampant, especially in the likes of the DUP but also the UUP too, lets not forget Mike Nesbitt’s and the UUP’s behaviour around the time of the 1916 commemorations. Tom Elliot for example has made it clear that he’s the MP only for the British identifying population of Fermanagh/ST (the minority) but its only thanks to the SDLP that he got that job in the first place, not to mention a Nationalist population who wont come out to vote due to the carry on of both SF and the SDLP.
If the DUP/UUP ever controlled this state by themselves again then I’m in no doubt they would continue from where the Old Unionist Stormont left of, DUP/UUP controlled councils is clear proof of that.
” The fact that she got the cold shoulder in Brussels from such leaders as the acting Spanish prime minister, Mariano Rajoy Brey, hasn’t discouraged her ”
Rajoy doesn’t like the thought of Scotland joining the EU because parts of his own country want to do exactly the same if/when they gain Independence. He wont be able to keep Scotland out of the EU if it were to become Independent. Not to mention EU bosses would like to see more members joining the EU in order to stop what looks like the EU crumbling. Of course I want to see the EU fall but be replaced by an economic (but not political) trading block but I’d rather Scotland got Independence before that were to happen.
I was reading this week in the New York Times that London is very likely to lose its status as the World Financial Centre. Dublin is amongst the favourites to succeed London as the World’s top destination for Banks/Financial Corporations. The Journalist who wrote the article ranked cities on a scale from 1 (Extremely unlikely to succeed London) to 60 (Will definitely succeed London as Top Banking City). Dublin ranked a very respectable 50 points, behind Vienna (51) and Amsterdam (55) but ahead of cities such as Paris (43), Milan (24), Warsaw (24) and even Luxembourg (40). One of the main reasons banks are reluctant to go to Amsterdam is due to a very “harsh” cap on Bankers bonuses in Holland, so Amsterdam is still a turn off for many Banks.
The bad points listed by the Journalist about Dublin was its small population size (Just over a million people) and its infrastructure isn’t as good as other major cities in Europe.
As I said before on this blog, this Irish culture of emigration is the life blood of Ireland draining away, the Irish Government needs to stop pussy footing around and keep our youngest and brightest in the country. We also have to keep abortion out of Ireland, we often talk of the immorality of abortion but there’s social and economic effects too. All economy’s depend on a native born influx of young people to keep it going. That’s why the Irish Government should keep abortion out and start promoting the Family and Family values such as Marriage.
Ireland does need a major demographic boost. Its important to remember we had a bigger population in the 1840’s than we do today. If Irish men & women have larger families (like we use to) and this culture of emigration is destroyed, then our population will increase greatly, therefore making our society and economy much, much stronger so that we can compete even better against countries like the UK, Germany or France and make Ireland an even better place for everyone.
The EU may have no choice but to reform. Breaking up the Euro and reverting to individual currencies would be one way Germany could protect itself from countries with debt problems like Italy and Spain.
A growing financial sector in Ireland would be a fantastic development, especially if we could one day return to having once again our own currency which is what I would love to see. I am full of confidence that Ireland could grow a strong economy with unification, massively boosting tourism revenue and there is decades of construction work in growing as you say our under populated country.
If England can pull off a federal union with many commonwealth nations which I am confident that they will, then I believe Ireland should be part of that which would keep the common travel area and also accommodate Scottish independence. We would also trade with the EU on the same terms as England.
There is no abortion in Ireland and we will be allowing dead children in the womb to be removed. It is sick to force a woman to carry full term a dead child and it is out of the question this will be illegal. If the catholic church opposes it strongly enough it will lose major support in Ireland.
I am all for promoting the Family and Family values such as Marriage. A multi tier health service I suggested would help with this as an unworking mother would qualify only for tier1 basic health cover and only by having a spouse working could she remain a full time mother with full cover.
Well, I suppose I’ve learned one thing here if nothing else: it really doesn’t matter what one writes (and I’ll not bother quoting myself back) I’m going to be told what I think anyway,