No one has really teased out how an entire party…the DUP, for example, including those members in the farming community , decided as one bloc on a “Leave” strategy in the recent Brexit referendum. Did every DUP voter simply vote on the “leave” ticket simply because Arlene the nominal First Minister and some of her more vocal , “expert” Democratic Unionist Party ministers said so? Did these voters actually give it any real deep thought to come up with such a studied ,universal group opinion and vote as one mind or did they just follow the party leader and give it no thought at all? How well have they done in the past forty years by being part of the EU? Many feel that being in the EU was the making of the farming community and agriculture in Ireland as a whole island, for example . It’s not as if the fishermen’s fishing quotas are ever going to change either, so why might they have voted for leaving? The ideas of The Common Fisheries Policy will remain much the same if fish stocks are to remain sustainable, so fishermen will hardly see much benefit from leaving . Many things will very obviously stay the same. I can just about remember a time before those EU grants that the then SDLP and Ulster Unionist Party members hustled for the region , away back in the 1970’s.Ireland was generally a much grubbier , rat-arsed and shabbier place back then . Never mind the ongoing “Troubles” and the casual economic destruction of the bombed buildings in the cause of the” revolution”; the road-system was abysmal and the farming community certainly did not sport all the wondrous agricultural paraphenalia and multi -thousand £ mechanical tools that they do now.I dare say they couldn’t afford any of that before the 1970’s and the then era of the wee grey Massey-Ferguson tractors. What now for another generation without those gratifying grants? Then again memories in Norneverland are very selective to the point of barely remembering historical fact, in any case.The very origin story of the causes of the Troubles has been disputed by some with memories sieved full of holes.
Of course the instability that would follow a “leave EU” vote was never talked about at all. All you saw was “vote Leave” stickers, as if that would suddenly solve all and every ills.
It took such a lot of effort, from well-wishers across Europe and the world , to achieve a loose form of stability here after years of mayhem. It had barely bedded-down and they seem prepared to toss it all away to a completely uncertain future which has the potential to revive dissent not only here but across their beloved “Britain”.
It’s not 1968 here now and it will never be like that again. There will never again be an armed- wing of unionism patrolling the porous and percolating border.There will be no revival of the B-Men ; there will be no wall and watchtowers built along the length of the division between the fractious six counties and the twenty six below.If there ever was the case ,it would only be an excuse to start blowing things up again….the start of another Troubles. What better way for another generation with no memory of the horror and a bloodymindedness and desire to free a mythical Old Ireland ,than to blow up a lovely big watchtower or border -post?That’s not something that will happen anytime soon, if anything has been learned from past mistakes, so there’ll be no new jobs for the boys at border posts or late- night armed patrols to supplement that day-job…if such a day-job is even available in future times.
If sense prevails , the border will remain “soft” ,for the present, a blurred tarmacadum vague non- entity known only to locals and the “real “border between the EU and the England will be established at the docks and the airports as people queue to get on boats and planes, flashing either their Irish EU passports or their new British(Little Englander) ones issued from London. As has always been the case in the past , the Irish travelling abroad in Europe will be treated a little differently from the English anyway .They always have been . They are simply viewed differently as can be seen by the fact that the Irish were recently given the freedom of Paris for their perceived good-manners and bonhomie ,whilst abroad.That kind of thing hasn’t happened to English football supporters that I can ever remember.It’s just the way peoples are viewed abroad. The English think they own the place and the Germans think they own the deckchairs.It was ever thus.
Britain is in a social shambles now, overseen by what is being called a “Zombie Government”, like the title of some new HBO or Netflix box-set, nominally ruled , but actually in suspension ,by a party much -divided ,and an Opposition similarly divided in political ethos; and people across the land are still very much in shock, whether they voted “leave” or “stay”. The only ones who have no apprehension are those who literally had nothing to gain or lose in the first place . As Bob Dylan said..”When you ain’t got nothing , you’ve got nothing to lose”. Some simply don’t give a fuck…..not to put a fine gloss on it.
Many living in England and Wales , believe anecdotally ,that there is now a complete demarcation line between the hard -right and anyone on the left ….literally a line between those of a liberal open-minded bent and the fascist/racist/bigoted ones who might shoot first and ask questions afterwards .That’s the awful truth, based in part on the murder of the “pro-stay” Labour MP before the referendum. That is how it seems to many. It might not be true or very accurate but it is the very thing that has irreparably damaged and divided families and neighbours , like some throwback episode of the 1960’s TV series “Till Death Us Do Part”, where the racist, misogynist,homophobe character “Alf Garnett”, as acted by Warren Mitchell, spews his Little Englander venom, echoing the pages of the “Daily Mail” with his Enoch Powell inspired rants at “those foreigners”,while his more open-minded, younger family members stand aghast and poke fun at him and his idiocy. Now the clock has been turned back fifty years for a generation who never experienced this easy racism and political uncorrectness before and they are in a state of shock to realise that such horrors actually exist in their midst and might very well be living under their very noses or the roof of their homes, or down the street in the local shop.Another distraction and split is that the hard-left also think it is a good thing to have voted to leave the EU. There is an oddness there that the DUP and UKIP who are at the extreme end of right -wing should share such left-wing bed-fellows with such ease .Who could have predicted that one? It has left many scratching their heads in bewilderment; but then many had no idea why or what they voted for in the first place .You might call that a patronising attitude but it is true nontheless.
The sense of a united country does not exist any more and on top of that many are fearful for their jobs and their children’s future and sense of identity.Many firms are openly talking about re-locating away from Britain and are already discussing the possibility of workers moving away to Dublin or somewhere else in Europe.The main thing that is being felt in places like Liverpool and London where they voted in huge numbers to stay , is the thought that they have been gaoled into a smaller world by the Little Englander mentality and that their sense of their own social freedoms of thought and mores has been stolen from them . It’s the kind of thing we have experienced here in Norneverland for such a long time that we almost take it for granted .It is a very new feeling for many young people in England and it frightens them .
There has always been a line in the sand here too. It’s not necessarily about Catholics and Protestants or even Nationalists and Unionists. it has always been about a conservatism of the mind ,primarily. We have seen it with the locking down of swings in children’s playgrounds on Sundays…We’ve seen it with the po-faced gay-cake debacle and the anti -gay rights agenda . We’ve seen it in so many closed-mind ways in the puerile censorship of plays and in the racist remarks about the Irish language , about immigrants and especially lately, about Muslims.There has never been a sense of “live and let live” in Norneverland. We’ve lived with the Flat-Earthers and anti-intellectualism of the mad Creationists in government ,who believe that the earth is 6000 years old ,no matter the evidence to the contrary in front of their eyes and ears. The fact that the sciences will be the first to suffer from lack of EU input and funding, will be seen as a joy to those who, medievally, think that science is the work of the Devil anyway and that the Age of Enlightenment was a licence to destroy belief in god.We’ve lived with that awful stench of foolishness and arrant bigotry for so long that surely some of us can identify with that same sense of lock-down and loss that the more open-minded are experiencing in the more liberal cities of Scotland and England.Those people should be our natural friends.
The economy might be the important thing for everyone’s well-being but there are also other factors of life and death to consider too.This dumbing- down of knowledge and the rise of small-mindedness as opposed to openness to new cultures and new ideas, is the real fear facing us.
sad to see the dissidents(stay brigade) look through their rose tinted glasses and yearn for the past.there will never be an armed wing of unionism patrolling the porous and percolating border.who are you trying to kid yourself,they are making plans as we speak to hem people in their homes while they push an orange parade through catholic areas in a coat trailing exercise.what now for another generation without those gratifying grants..you would be better putting that question to the mps and quangos who dealt the money out nobody in areas worst effected got a washer out of it.as for your real fear of openness to new cultures you have no need to worry as long as they arrive on a points system it will all be grand.
“for your real fear of openness to new cultures you have no need to worry as long as they arrive on a points system it will all be grand.”
Not sure what you mean billy.
A points system will be better for everyone and less discriminative than the current EU policy I believe.
It wont stop immigration but it will transform it which will bring new challenges. For example, there may be less unskilled people from within the EU coming in, but there will be an increase in skilled people from outside the EU the majority of which will be Muslims. This means there will be more mosques in Ireland and throughout Britain as well as even more diversity in culture not less
For those that think brexit was racist, they may get their eyes opened.
And for those who are racists, they may find things are worse not better from their point of view.
But it will be a fairer less discriminative system and will not dilute national sovereignty.
not sure what you mean ……point system rules will still give us openness to new cultures nobody should have anything to fear from that.as you say it will transform things instead of an open door policy being pursued by some..for those that think brexit was racist they may get their eyes opened..with the points system racism goes out the window they will be accepting to abide by the laws of the land before signing up.
Harry, England is leaving the EU and when new economic arrangements are in place which will dwarf the EU, Ireland will also leave the EU as it will be in Irelands best interests to do so.
The NHS is being privatised in England and will be made accountable for its service delivery for the first time in its history, and a new relationship will be forged between these islands first, and then with whatever remains of the EU project.
We will still be in Europe, we will still sell to the single market, we will still be able to travel and work throughout Europe and also with the rest of the world.
In the mean time, there will be at least a 6 month period of uncertainty which is why article 50 will be activated at the earliest possible moment, which will have nothing to do with negotiations with the EU but with other nations in the commonwealth and the rest of the world. These negotiations will not be hindered in the slightest by the antics of the Westminster parties or what the media has to say about them, or us for that matter.
The Trident program will go ahead, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it was with Corbyns acceptance as it is more than simply a nuclear defence program but a membership card of the global elite which will keep a seat at the top tables and therefore has great economic relevance which he will understand.
Corbyns biggest problem is his honesty and fairness is an unusual presence in Westminster, it doesn’t fit in, one look at his expense claims of £8 for the year compared to the others will prove he is a world apart and show you why his own party really don’t want him.
Scotland will have an opportunity at independence as will Northern Ireland – or an opportunity to renew the union as it is.
If either choose independence, we wont get a penny more from England and they will be rather displeased with us to say the least. It will take courage for Scotland to leave, I fear they will bottle it again by focussing too much on the need to be in EU if that makes sense.
Northern Ireland will not leave either, unless we wise up and start behaving as one nation and looking at what is on all of our peoples best interests as a single entity in which case we may get a majority in favour of unification under new circumstances i.e. not simply integrating into the ROI which will simply not happen.
For a start, if we want a totally free health service when a much wealthier England is moving way from one, we need to bloody well come up with a better strategy of paying for it than make businesses pay for it because I am telling you now, we wont. I would close the lot and let everyone go unemployed before I would accept it.
So we can either accept that NI simply cannot afford independence or a free health service on its own and will remain reliant and economically dependant on England for the foreseeable future, or we look at what we can achieve as an all Ireland entity and explore all options that will enable this to happen within the new circumstances that brexit has presented which are all totally positive in my eyes.
I simply cannot see the negatives that you do Harry, there is enough of the popular media presenting uninformed pessimistic and demoralising bias for its own ends. Positive news doesn’t sell, negativity is their business, this site should not succumb to their methods and I hope that sooner or later you will be able to see the opportunity that exists. The world is a much bigger place than the EU and rather than doors closing, can you not see it is an option for more doors opening?
All proud nations have the potential for racism when their identity is threatened. The EU has made drastic err in judgement in extending its borders ever eastwards and enforcing free movement to simply grow the numbers for economic global bargaining strength by dispersing them without the consent and approval of its member nations – of which many are proud nations who will not give up their identity easily.
It has gambled with peoples lives for profit, it has taken people for granted and risked the peace that was originally at its core in pursuit of a financial rescue deal with the US to end its 20 years of receding economy.
The EU reeks of desperation and I cannot support it, yet for doing so, I do not consider myself to be fascist, racist or bigoted yet you have happily pigeon holed me into those groups for having the vision to see the current direction of the EU will lead to war,
Ireland like England is not a left wing nation, if we too choose to leave the EU, will you brand us also to be a nation of fascists, racists or bigots?
Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, Norneverland. Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, Norneverland, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan.
Another moanumental article by Harry ‘glass half empty’ McAvinchey
Optimism is usually the prerogative of youth, but even so ,I am usually a “glass half-full “kind of person …even as I sail into the blustery seas of my impending dotage, possible infirmity and maybe dementia. That said , I’m not really talking about Me The Ego, who staggers to the top of the dungheap to crow aloud and make a bit of noise, or even Me the Alter -Ego “paddykool” who attempts to answer my own daft questions ,rationally. What you have read above is based on actual dispatches from the frontline.
As John Donne was wont to say…”No man is an island”….so……..
Given that two of my daughters live in Liverpool and London respectively ; one working for a formidable city law- firm and one in a company connected to the fashion industry, they have their own views , filtered through their friends and co-workers of many nationalities and cultures. You might say they don’t represent the general views of the entire country,because how could they, being as they are ,the spawn of the devil that is my own good self, born and bred in the twisted social coil that is Norneverland, but they at least , are swimming in the waters of current Britain as it now is….. in the workplace, on the streets ,in the pubs and restaurants, in the tubes and on the trains. In that respect they might be better placed than me to gauge the lay of the land and they and their associates do not feel any of this optimism .From their and their colleagues’ and employers ‘ perspectives the vote went the wrong way and will mean much hurt.They feel what even the paper of the establishment “the Times” ,stated in its editorial yesterday, that “Britain is floundering in plain view”.
Now they might be right or wrong and we may all enter a brand new era of happiness and success , which would be a fine and lovely thing but I’ll reserve judgement for another while.
After all , I’m retired …”Old” now, …if you want to put a handy label on it, but an oddity , given that I am not one of those oldsters who voted like my children and I’ve no doubt that really nothing in the country …neither Norneverland nor the span of the populace in England , Scotland and Wales has actually changed in any way at all. The same people are there.That much has not changed. Bigotry , misogny and racism was always there before last month and it’s still there now. it’s just that a sharp stick has been poked at it.
As has been implied , the sink -estates and ghettoes across the land will always be there in some form, always avoiding the wash of any spare cash swilling about. They are places for the poor and disenfranchised to hide …just one step away from homelessness by dint of friends and family.Some will feel safe living like that and will remain, living and dying a few small steps away from near-destitution and poverty , eating whatever processed crap they can afford from a benefits cheque… and a small few might struggle and escape to a “better life” that might just appear apres Brexit.
Well if we are sticking with facts, the EU is hurting more than the UK
Italy may have no choice but to recapitalise its currency, which will have a knock on effect of hurting Germanys financial sector and lower the value of the euro against the dollar.
It will put extra pressures on the EU and in particular Spain and Greece.
Greece could decide to hell with it and default on its debt which would again, now that England has left, put the pressure on France and Germany who both already have far right wing parties growing in the return of the Nazi party and national front.
Alternatively, everyone could keep cool heads and help one another out. England would setup new trade deals with the world very quickly by just keeping the existing deals they had with the EU which would help both parties out. Germany may be sic that it could not do more to hurt England and make an example of brexit but they cant have to all their own way.
The UK is not floundering, industry outputs have not changed, markets have bounced back to higher levels than the month before brexit, the EU on the other hand has declined further,
The truth is, we wont know what will happen. The potential for England is much better now out of Europe. But that would depend on proper leadership
Jeremy Corbyn knew England would be better off out of the EU, but refused to campaign for brexit, and having chosen to support in, did bigger all causing his party to split.
That s bad leadership and not someone you would want as PM.
No one has been honest enough to say that brexit was a good thing and do you know why?
Because immigration was a major factor in getting them out and no one wanted to be called a facist/racist/bigot for doing the right thing
Another issue was the current rules, they don’t allow members to discuss other trade agreements until after the leave, so during the campaign, leave was unable to tell anyone about the free trade deals they have been discussing with India, Canada, the US, New Zealand, Australia, the Trans Pacific Group, China, Asia and African groups. They stil aren’t until article 50 is activated.
It was an amazing achievement they managed to break free of the EUs clutches as the rules are designed to make it very difficult to leave.
Not so much ‘difficult to leave’, Jessica, as live with the consequences of leaving…
“Not so much ‘difficult to leave’, Jessica, as live with the consequences of leaving…”
And what do you think the consequences will be Jude?
Economic slump, political uncertainty, rising of right-wing activists…And that’s for starters
“Economic slump, political uncertainty, rising of right-wing activists…And that’s for starters”
If there is an economic slump Jude, it will be short term though I am not aware there actually is one. Where are you seeing evidence of an economic slump?
The drop in the value of Sterling has actually boosted sales. Had the UK been in the Euro zone then it would have been in serious trouble. The fact England has its own currency will protect it. One reason I believe Ireland must get out of the Eurozone and back to our own currency.
Brussels created the political uncertainty and has permanently destroyed the economic union within Europe in pursuit of a political union and centralised control. Such arrangements are far too dangerous as they are open to abuse.
This is what has led to a rise in “right-wing activists” has been on-going for many years and nothing to do with leaving. That is undeniable fact Jude.
The national front in France, the Nazi party is even remerged in Germany. How many would have dreamt that was even possible, but thanks to the EU project it has actually happened?
Leaving has been a lucky escape and I believe you will realise this in the not too distant future. I am in no doubt whatsoever about it Jude.
In the mean time try not to believe all you read in the media and ignore corporates moaning about short term losses, small businesses are the backbone of the economy and they will be better off.
Think of the currency in terms of SPICED
Strong Pound Imports Cheap Exports Dear. The opposite is true now of course
I am aware of the concept Eamon.
Not sure what point you wanted to make in relation to consequences but Sterling strong would be a bad thing at this time.
Cheap exports is exactly what they will need at the moment as they establish trade deals with the rest of the planet.
Dear imports which are mostly from EU nations will hurt the EU nations they trade with though as I imagine it will reduce and even encourage more internal sales.
Financial services will be less comfortable so the corporate sectors will suffer losses and bond values will be reduced which is a profitable sector but will also reduce the cost of borrowing.
I don’t know, some people it seems can fall in shite and come up smelling of roses.
You would nearly think they had been planning it for 5 years.
An Economic slump/collapse will happen with or without the brexit. After all didn’t Gideon Osbourne slow down the austerity measures he had promised due to the brexit referendum campaign? The trap to avoid is blaming it on a brexit and not those who really cause it…..and know it’s coming. Btw, some on here praising the EU sound like others who make excuses for British imperialism in Ireland- eg ‘the EU isn’t perfect but it’s brought us new motorways etc’………..’British imperialism wasn’t perfect but it brought us railways’. Strange times indeed.
Couldn’t agree more WT.
It is like the Monty Python sketch, what did the romans ever do for us?
At least England are in control of their own destiny and have not allowed themselves to be institutionalised like the rest of us.
Then again, we are talking about a state that invented economic hegemony.
Top of the ‘I’ve done my research’ class, again on most Jessica, on Corbyn though, he is about to join his Labour leader predecessor John Smith as, what one british newspaper once as, following Smith’s untimely passing referenced ‘the best Prime Minister we never had’.
Well why don’t the British actually hurry up and leave then?
“Well why don’t the British actually hurry up and leave then?”
I think they should.
I believe as soon as their is a PM, they should trigger article 50 right immediately.
Ha ha …it just goes to show …that should read ..”given that I am one of those oldsters….”, and not …”given that I am not one of those oldsters”….It just goes to show the power of one little word and where we might put our X at whatever whim occurs at a given time…
Afraid Harry I must, as usual, agree with Jessica, and Billy too.
Europe did make rich farmers richer, my own Daddi got feck all but, those with a dozen charolis, moved back and forth between Markethill, Carrickmacross, Clougher and Blaney got huge sums from the EEC, and continue to for set aside etc. Now, many of them big farmers are of the unionist hue, many of the wee farmers in Sluggan or Coalisland are not, why should any of these folk vote for something which takes much but delivers naught?
On the fisher folk, it was pointed out yesterday how, for every quid the EU, EC, ERC gave, they took back two in fish, why should hardpressed fishing folk suppprt something which takes much, including boats but revitalises nothing in those communities, the Spaniards make a lot from fishing Irish and brit watets but, their one time fishing villages now have mass housing developments, I’m in one now, Kilkeel, Letterkenny, Hull etc. don’t really have the weather so genetatilns are set to life on the bru or emigration.
One thing I thought of last week, and I’ve nothing but admiration for the Poles, when they’re shopping, they shop in east european shops, meaning, all profit goes back baltic, when Irish, or English folk shop in Spain, Italy, Netherlands or France, they shop in the shops of those coyntries, none of which have dedicated aisles of Irish stew and tatie bread nor tetley tea nor robinsons jam, sorry, there is something to be said for looking after your own first Harry.
I do hope, and had discusson with Jessica re: this last week, the brits hold off on re running the exit vote, respecting democracy albeit I doubt that but, if they can, we shall see the emergence of a new, democratic european government, withdrawals of their military ambitions and more money being spent on taxpayers rather than acting like Irish travelers and moving about to do your job.
So you are saying, Mark , that many unionists did very well out of the EU and your dad didn’t? I have no idea from this how your dad might align himself or which political party he might follow.You say the EU made rich farmers even richer. I thought that was exactly what i actually said originally …which is why I was asking why they would want to vote to leave it.I said the evidence was there during my own lifetime that money poured into the farmers from the EU, making raggle -taggle fields tidier and filling the countryside with all sorts of huge farm machines. I watched it happening while grants poured in to build huge luxury homes from the crumbling remaining walls of ramshackle cottages and I watched while little cars held together with baling wire and string were gradually replaced by huge 4×4 jeeps. Before this , anyone living in the countryside scraped by in more humble abodes. That’s why I’m saying why would they want to vote “leave”. Many obviously didn’t .
Now as a person who keeps a few beehives and has some idea that the monoculture and the clearing of small fields has probably done more harm to the local eco-system and the wild-life that sustains our planet than anything else, I can see the reason to close these farmers down and give the bees which are ultimately more important than any of us, another chance. There is the possibility that gradually the countryside will gradually return to what it once was . I can’t see why the farmers would want to hand that away and return to something a little more humble, but it appears that ‘s what the DUP wants them to do , for their own sketchy reasons….so did these farmers vote “in” or “out” in line with the DUP’s edict or did they vote with the majority in this place who wanted, for various reasons ,to remain? That’s a question worth asking now that they are all due a sea-change soon .Speaking of sea-changes , in relation to fishermen , this is what I’ve read :
“British fishermmen have been warned that, despite the promises made by the leave campaign, they cannot expect to be granted greater catches after the UK leaves the European Union, and they may face increased economic turmoil.
Fishermen will have to remain within their current catch quotas while the UK is still a member, and even if new arrangements are negotiated after a Brexit, they will not necessarily be more generous, fisheries chiefs and campaigners have warned.
British fishing fleets will still be bound by international agreements on fish stocks that must now be worked out, and which may not be to their benefit.
“Promises have been made and expectations raised during the referendum campaign and it is now time to examine if and how they can be delivered,” said the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations.
“Unfortunately, perhaps, the UK’s geopolitical position means that it is not politically or legally possible just to ringfence most of our fish resources, in the way that, for example, Iceland can. The reality is that most of our stocks are shared with other countries to some degree or other.
“We can certainly seek to renegotiate quota shares, as well as access arrangements, but it is realistic to expect that there will be a price. Who will pay that price is a critical question.”
The cost could, in theory, be subsidised by the government, or it could be borne by consumers, though this would depend on the price of fish to be imported, if UK fisheries are to remain competitive. The effects on fishing fleets are likely to vary across the UK. Many fishermen currently benefit from EU subsidies to help them buy better boats with new nets that help to preserve fish stocks, for instance by allowing juvenile fish to swim clear.”
These are not my words but they certainly contain no real salve for fishermen .If they have voted to leave , maybe they know something the rest of us don’t ….or maybe not?
Have I got this right Harry, you think Ireland should sign away the rest of our sovereignty to the EU because they fixed the potholes and gave money to farmers to keep the place tidy. But London, who has pumped in hundreds of billions of pounds over the same period should be dropped?
Now, I want only Irelands independence from both, but if you are going to sell your soul for money Harry, at least go with the highest bidder.
I don’t believe I ever said any of those things Jessica.My own personal considerations were not concerning Ireland’s independence or otherwise . I personally don’t believe that Ireland’s indepenence(that is the entire island as one sole unit) is anywhere close. Neither our bit of it in the north and the southern bit are even on the same page yet, so I can’t see it happening just yet. No… I am simply writing about what people across these lands are talking and thinking about …my daughters and their extended friends and nearly half the population of both the UK and here. I’m also musing over the reasons some made their choices….no matter the vitriol that might be heaped on anyone for making either choice….or even speaking about it .Are we not even allowed to discuss these reasons and fears? The Brexit crew think it’s just a great deal but there is as yet no hard evidence to prove that claim and it’s the “stay” voters who have to be convinced by results now. It’s abig ask …and how much time are we supposed to allow the government now before we are all convinced that this has been a wise move?
Just because the “leave” camp won by a few percent hasn’t stopped the other half of the population from worrying whether or not this was a good move or not .That’s not to say that Brexit won’t be the next step and that it will not be followed through.It will even though majorities here and in Scotland didn’t agree… No one knows how it will pan out , though, but many have their doubts that it was the best thing to do. I think that’s fair to say because no-one seems to have a clue.but they have plenty of theories. Now we are to have a “stay” Prime Minister who will have to carry through a “leave” agenda which she doesn’t really think was a great idea in the first place . That’s like having to eat your least favourite meal every day whether you like it or not.
You might want Ireland’s independence from both the EU and the UK , Jessica …and I think it is personally a righteous thing for any individual such as yourself to aspire to but I don’t think it’s on the cards just yet and if there is an economic argument for it that is convincing , i think it should be dispassionately put on the table.
That doesn’t mean that I think the south wants independence from the EU or that a lot of people in the north want indepenence from the UK either. That might depend on how well the UK gets on in the coming years as well as how our own tetchy form of management get on too.We too have a top -team of Joint Ministry who are not on the same page as far as leave/stay is concerned. I think that ouside of the economics that the EU offered a sense of brotherhood of nations . It surely needed some tweaking and fixing but that doesn’t mean I thought it should be dumped entirely …and that’s what i believe a lot of people thought too ..I think many are still in some shock at this development for that reason..They obviously imagined that we all had a greater sense of imagination and might have made this thing run a little more smoothly instead of crashing it into a wall..
Harry, there will always be a majority of people who will choose the safer option.
There are very few guarantees in life, most people will avoid risk, stick to the slow and steady pace and finish the race content with their performance.
England staying within the EU has less risk in the short term, but potential risks in the longer term.
Leaving has greater risk in the short term, but greater economic growth potential in the longer term.
They have made a choice and the consequence is that Ireland has been left in a position where the safe option is no longer so obvious any more.
Now more than ever we need leaders on this island. There are no longer any safe options from Irelands point of view. Sticking with the EU could backfire if England is successful in building a new global federal union which they will do and have already scheduled meetings to discuss, especially if trade is lost to other nations from our biggest trading partner.
If Ireland side with England and they fail, we will maintain the majority of trade with our biggest trading partner but lose out in EU funding and have to build our economy the hard way.
If Ireland sit on the fence too long, they could piss off both sides and be outcasts.
You are right though, a risk has been taken and I suppose if a majority are risk averse, then I can see how that can make people nervous.
I believe it was the right thing to do and I would base this on the reports and ground work which has already gone into it over the past 5 years.
This was not a shot in the dark.
As for the EU offering a sense of brotherhood of nations. Many do feel this way in Europe, but a lot don’t and they are the fastest growing group so it is not the elderly increasing this figure.
The problem is not the ideology, but the scale which is motivated not by humanity, but corporate greed.
And it has not yet run into a wall, the EU train has lost a carriage but it is continuing on the same track and still on a collision course with Asia.
Paddy, my point was not on unionism v nationalism farming oractice, it was simply looking at the ‘why’ of how some, who gained little from the EU, nor it’s predecessors, would wish to vote to remain?
Small farmers fourty years later still have the old Major or TVO ferguson to gather in the few bob while, as you say, certain others went from an old zephyr held together with baler twine to izuzu or discovery but, did our former health minister, a large farmer working at Hillsborough, vote for Christmas?
To quote the one time Clinton aide, ‘it’s the economy stupid’ and, if you’re a wee farmer in Ballybogey or Ballytrodden watching your large farmer neighbour go up to Mill’s or Burkes to get his new John Deere, with go faster stripes while you long for a thirty year old international, religion, nor what wee Arelene Kelly says makes much difference, the old saying us, you get out what you put in, the EU, and previous renditions problem was, this did not apply to SFP .
I certainly agree on the bee’s, have some, though now fewer, myself but, despite fourty plus years pressing to not cut back, or out, hedges, we small farmers make naff all difference to our eco climate, and Brussels just keeps pushing for more food to sit idle in warehouses, while Irish people starve on our Capitals main street, I can only state that things are better, economically here in Spain, and in the other european places I’ve been this last few months, than they are in Ireland, as above, once small fishing villages are now major tourisr hubs, we shall never do that with Letterkenny nor Carlingford, and all this, in Spain, Italy, France, done with EU grants, paid for by VAT.
Wee people shall always be servants of the wealthy, and the wealthy run the EU.
The DUP is an organism and like our brain it feeds and receives signals from all it’s parts. There actually a signal sent from the central nervous system to vote against the EU and all complied. What was being sold was a nostalgic return to the mid sixties when there was letsgetalongerism edging in everywhere. The uppity taigs had failed to remove the border, the place was starting to prosper and everybody seemed content with their lot. There were no gays and no foreigners and lawful parades were allowed to process down main arterial routes. The liberals living here were mostly able to go about their business unhindered. This is the picture of what was up for grabs if only we could shake off the shackles of the foreigners. The Caleb Foundation would be in control and money would pour in from our fellow Britons. It would be like a picture on a tin of shortbread. Maybe it’s coming, Harry. You and the withered flowers in your hair should be afraid – very afraid.
No..I’m not that bothered really, fiosrach. I’ve seen it all and lived to tell the tale…. “before the EU” ,… “during the EU”…. and here comes…. “after the EU “!! Like I said above , much can be misconstrued and many nuances can be misinterpreted when reading cold print. I am still a cynical optimist whose flowers have withered in my grey hair many years ago. The quality of my life does not hang entirely on what an assortment of idiots might want to waste their precious time on during the summertime .If it makes their wee heads happy to march up and down ,our laughter might be the best response . If they get out of hand , maybe a good hosing down with chilled, indelible dye might do the trick. What I can see is that we live in a crazy society , whether inside the EU or not and all known laws are suspended annually to allow law-breaking on a massive scale. The authorities and the police are incapable of dealing with any of it .That’s not about to change .
One thing I thought of last week, and I’ve nothing but admiration for the Poles, when they’re shopping, they shop in east european shops, meaning, all profit goes back baltic, when Irish, or English folk shop in Spain, Italy, Netherlands or France, they shop in the shops of those coyntries, none of which have dedicated aisles of Irish stew and tatie bread nor tetley tea nor robinsons jam, sorry, there is something to be said for looking after your own first Harry.
Maybe we will go back to the days of the V form ..that will stop those pesky brits spending their own money abroad..or perhaps we could copy Cuba and stop them leaving at all. !!!
sorry I forget to put first paragraph in inverted commas and attribute Mark
Na habair e Angela, the point I made a few weeks past was the conversation I heard in the shopping centre about half a mile away where brit pensioners spoke, pre referendum of how Spanish supermarkets, even restaurants cannot do without their pensions, same in the other places I mentioned, because of this, a free trade deal, minus Art. 48 will be negotiated, hopefully everyone’s happy.
I’m not too sure about Mark’s statement at all. Is he saying that the money spent in local shops run by Poles is all being sent back to Poland and doesn’t filter into the local economy? Does he imagine that they don’t shop in Sainsburys and Tesco too? Or is it that they are shopping for a wee taste of the old homeland that they left? We’d do the same if we could find the stuff abroad , just as my sister in California loves a bit of wheaten bread from home . There’s always a gap in the market for someone setting up a shop in Spain for the ex-pats .
It is my assumption that many people living here from across Europe have decided to make their permanent homes here, put their children in the local schools and live and work in the community here, thus becoming a vital part of it ….and in doing so, becoming “one of our own”, in Mark’s curious phrase.After all there are many generations of Italians, Chinese and Indians and so on successfully assimillated after several generations to become also “one of our own”.The fact is these people are part and parcel of our society and work hard within it .They have enriched us with their cuisine and cultures too .You couldn’t get anything more Italian than fish and chips or ice-cream and we have our own take on food from India and spag bolog from somewhere that isn’t Bologna(!).Many are not adverse to Indian, Greek and Chinese food, come to that, or a bit of North African cous cous or Spanish tapas or whatever . If our Polish friends take to our local dishes and pig- out on tatie bread , wheaten fadge , stew or champ as well as these other delights, it is surely their own personal choices ?
Like I said earlier, but with knew incidences,
Yet more, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, Norneverland. Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, Norneverland, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan. Norneverland, moan, moan. Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, Norneverland. Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, Norneverland, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan.
Another moanumental article by Harry ‘glass half empty’ McAvinchey and the Moanumental disciples of a religion they care not a jot for, but do so anyway because lazy tradition requires less psynapse activity than pugnacious brain waves questioning it in the first place.
Maybe next time ,KC and the Sunshine Band you could at least offer the readers just a little whiff of the undoubted wit and wisdom you are currently hiding under that rather large rock.I’m afraid your puerile attempt at satire or possibly critique is as yet displaying nothing of substance.But please do keep trying.Maybe you could rise to a contribution yourself KC .We await with bated breath to see the unveiling of your true nature and identity.
Post Scriptum … KC . You’re not getting away so lightly with your dubious contribution without explaining to the readers, what exactly …”but with knew incidences” …actually means and is this some obscure form of the English language , possibly dating back several centuries?
Also it might be a novel idea to explain to the avid readers the relevance… and if you would be so kind and thoughtful,possibly an explanation of this little piece of obscurantist twaddle you’ve also penned….”disciples of a religion they care not a jot for, but do so anyway because lazy tradition “…
….now what the fuck could that be all about and what dark little corner of your cellar did you find it in?This religious reference is aimed at who or what exactly and in what context could it possibly have any place here? Any answer at all would do!
Is it possible that your brain just churned this imbecility unbeknownst to yourself? In any case , myself and possibly Jude too,would surely all dearly love to know what it is you are attempting to convey in your delightful , if odd turn of phrase.I await in expectation.
enriching us with their culture,that old cheeser again being played out.thats what started the ball rolling in the first place vindaloos and chow miens are a different story some of their cultures are unacceptable and they have to recognise that before arriving.the points system will sort this out saving millions of pounds to the tax payers
Well billy , we already have a fairly robust set of laws and punishments which should sort out any of those things you might find unacceptable . You don’t actually say what these might be , mind. No matter ,we have plenty of lawbreakers here already who have no problem flouting sensible laws and they should know better, having lived here and should know the difference between right and wrong.So let’s not talk in vague terms .How do these “points systems” sort out those who are going to break laws sometime in the future ? Which cultures would you personally find unacceptable for example, just to give us a flavour of what you might want to sort out.?
well,wee sammy from the shankill rocks up in brussels say,orders 500 tyres and tips them outside a hospital catering for cancer patients and sets fire to them.hes lifted so needs an interpreter,legal aid,costing thousands he gets 5yrsjail another 200k to keep him there all because its his kulture and the people fit the bill.go on utube and check the dog eating festival,the rotherham peado gangs,ect,ect,ect.theres near 10,000 of them in uk jails costing 40k a piece to keep a yr how much is that.ordinary punters arriving being able to speak english,have a job to go to,housing sorted,would have nothing to fear from a points system.
Well billy …that’s more like it. It makes a little more sense to my understanding.You mean , basically that a “criminal is a criminal “no matter which part of the world you might come from . To my way of thinking ,we’re on the same page on this one .Background checks should be made and criminals should not be allowed such free and easy travel.That makes perfect sense.We have enough criminals of our own here already, as you say…building bonfires illegally as part of a mad “culture”, burning down the environment (I saw a tree burning last night while a small group of the musically-inclined made a bit of a noisy racket with party-tunes on lambeg drums and flutes … in a mixed area..and palls of black, black tyre- smoke polluted the area,….. for one example. The wife who suffers from asthma wasn’t best pleased and noisely closed all the windows and complained about the dirt that these heathens were producing )….and apparently a couple of homes have been burned down in Belfast because the idiots were relying on wind -direction as a safety- measure when they lit their huge ,mad fire. That’s simply insane behaviour masquerading under so-called “culture” and everyone with a functioning brain knows it ,but the authorities are afraid to do much about it .They obviously do a risk -assessment and decide it would cause as much , if not more grief to let them all break the law and wreck the environment for a night ,than to start arresting them before or after the event.Now that’s what I call criminality let loose.
We find many local “cultural” pursuits distasteful already such as the ones listed above ,but we also abhor things like dog-fighting and animal cruelties such as cock-fighting and fox-hunting, bear-baiting , cat-skinning or whatever.Whether or not you’d need an interpreter to explain to these already born -and -bred local criminals the morality of their actions is debatable…and explain just why they shouldn’t know already that they are engaging in anti-social behaviour .Have they never been to school? Are their parents idiots?
A solution to the cost of hiring interpreters for new-incomers to this particular madhouse , from other countries ,might be to ensure that anyone wishing to live and work in your country should have a handle on several of the languages spoken there ….but then again many of the people coming from abroad can speak several languages already ,including possibly a version of English which is more accurate than the locals’ version.In the past I’ve worked with well-educated fellows who could speak at least three languages fluently and my local barber employs several cutters of various nationalities who can converse easily with the customers .There are also several Turkish barbers in town and i’m sure they all speak fluent English. Checks on past criminality might be a start ,if you are considering that we are simply importing too many villains alongside the genuine decent people. That would make a bit of sense anywhere, wouldn’t it?.
As for dog-eating and the English Rotherham paedo gangs who abused young girls and women …well all people of good-will of any nationality will and did find this kind of thing disgusting .In England this kind of thing has had greater impact on good people of the same race as the criminals. Those who are simply trying to make a living and raise their families right are being tarred with the same brush as these brutish fiends .It has caused the racists to openly attack innocent people by an association that doesn’t exist as if they were responsible for their neighbours’ actions. It has brought the headcases out on public transport, in the workplace and in the streets to rave and lambast ordinary people that they should go back to wherever they came from ….even when they were born in the place .That’s just dumb.So yes …a points system of some sort might be a good idea. It will simply mean that only educated people and people with no criminal backstory are held back.
That should be …. “It will simply mean that only educated people get in and that people with a criminal backstory are held back”.
Not quite accurate Harry
Doctors and Nurses who are much needed could be given priority 1.
Unskilled labour can be given priority levels based on need.
Criminal background checks is an imperative and all child abusers, rapists and sex offenders should be given an automatic permanent exclusion and not given free roaming to replenish the bloodstock as they are with EU rules.
yes and the ones getting in must adapt to the locals feelings not the other way about after all their guests in another country now.for example do you think a local should have to remove his motor bike helmet going into a bank,post office,garage,ect and somebody can walk in wearing a burka because they claim its their culture.its things like this people pick up on and sways their votes on the likes of brexit.
A points based system has nothing to do with Burkas billy.
If that is an issue it should most certainly be separate to immigration
Be careful not to draw too much attention though, what would you do with all those Spiderman costumes 🙂
no nothing to do with a points system.but if will become one if the new law is passed that people are asking for in a petition after all you can be interned here for wearing a beret n a scarf over your face.burkas gimp costumes and the like are fine in the wearers home not in public places.
That’s where we get into some odd states of mind, billy…. and Jessica had pointed out the comic potential .
You certainly have a point that the burka could easily pass for a disguise and I suppose it has been used that way for criminal purposes in the past…and not necessarily by the people you’d expect to be wearing them. They can and could be used to even disguise the sex of the wearer, who might want to get up to some nefarious act , for example . I can remember some problems with turban-wearing motorcyclists and the law ,in the past, too, but unfortunately can’t remember how that one panned out.
We need to be sensitive to peoples’ customs and religions although we might not even have a belief ourselves. In the first instance. If you were talking about the potential for a disguised person to easily rob a bank….well anyone can don a disguise and do that even with a hoodie , a hat or make-up and wigs .
For example, have you ever seen a gaggle of ladies going out on the town of an evening ? or a hen-party on the roam….dressed to kill , in full make-up, fake-tan, false eyelashes , hair- styled exotically , eyebrows painted in and shadowed, nails laquered , lips artfully tinted and fitted out in body-con clothes like some exotic species of gazelles , clattering on teetering heeled mini- hooves? . The “before and after” photos could be quite transformative, you might agree. So you could argue that a disguise can be worn in plain sight by just about anyone , if they cared to rob some place or shop-lift.
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves though if we are going to start asking people how they should look or even dress. Where might that lead?
Then you’ll have to ask yourself what “local feelings ” might actually mean and if those feelings are shared universally by everyone in just that same way. The chances are that opinions will differ and be very diverse ,so how would that work?After all ,most people obey the laws of the land anyway but they are usually allowed to maintain a bit of individuality in their thinking and surely criminals are a minority in any society anyway?.What i’m really saying is that we are not all the same and we don’t all think the same …as we can see from the many opinions and ideas we kick about here every day on this site ….even “opinions” that are barely decipherable from the odd person who really haven’t the ability or skill to articulate what they might be struggling to say.
local feelings……..exactly you might not have been paying attention to the brexiteers promises in the runup to the vote you being in the dissident stay camp.you have to accept now its over for the stay camp and its time to move on.thresa may now has to follow all these promises up by 2020 she knows ukip will be waiting in the wings.excuses of disguises,hen parties,and sure its their culture wont come into it.
You sound very keen on being ruled by Thresa May billy.
Her priority will be England, she will use NI and the border as leverage for concessions form Germany. The republic will also be used as they will be in a position to hurt the southern economy which has had the strongest growth in all of the EU thanks to trade with England.
Without England’s support, they will lose another net contributor which will help them get a better deal with the EU.
Ireland needs to be free of both England and Germany and to determine the relationship we want with both on our own terms. We need to be calling the shots for both and not reduced to a bargaining chip.
You sound as though you feel it’ll be cultural war on the streets then, billy, because that’s what would happen if any government attempted to impose the things you propose on decent law-abiding citizens, who simply happen to have different religions or cultural tics , but otherwise uphold the laws of the land…. possibly better than some of our own citizens might do..As far as you appear to read it , it’s not really about economics for many at all. It’s more like racism . Brexiteers such as the UKIP mob ,ploughing more £billions into the “leave” campaign than any other party have forced the issue and sold fear to the people who voted nort because of the economics but simply because of the differing cultures that a certain kind of person can’t abide?That simple?
Well that notion as to why people voted in the way that they did is still being discussed ,but there is usually an economic slant put on it as if the real truth was too hard a story to tell in public .This kind of behaviour sounds like a recipe for disaster.It sounds suspiciously like the kinds of noises Hitler made about Jews in 1930’s Germany and that led to a horror story too.UKiP has very surely exposed the racist element to the light of day and seems to have given them the courage to behave like the KKK but that’s simply criminal behaviour.
I’m a bit more hopeful that some good intelligent sense will bed in and Brexit will simply mean leaving the EU and not some Night of The Longknives with riots in Manchester and Wolverhampton leading to appalling social chaos and the streets in flames . Of course i might be wrong .Look what happened here! .
jasus,wars,hitler and the jews,the kkk,nights of the long knives,riots,appalling social chaos,streets in flames,i know the stay camp played the fear factor in their campaign but do you not think your laying it on a bit thick…..jessica i couldnt give two fiddlers who rules in england or ireland for that matter it makes little odds to me i just get on with it.
“jessica i couldnt give two fiddlers who rules in england or ireland for that matter it makes little odds to me i just get on with it.”
But burkas annoy you? That is logic for you
I’m not sure what age you might be billy ,but I still remember the Brixton and Toxteth riots of 1981 in Liverpool and London ,even when this place we are living in was in the thick of its own mad conflagration. In England they weren’t much worried about our “Troubles” other than worrying about their sons being used as cannon-fodder, but there was such tension in the black communities with the police of those cities and with with their racist – treatment, that violent rioting erupted, leading to buildings being burnt to the ground and a full-force onslaught on the police force. It was just like home!Police had to be drafted in from all over the country.That’s how close to the surface these things are .For anyone to needlessly stir up that kind of emotion and potential aggression is plainly mad . It would be even worse some thirty five years later if racists are given any kind of slight encouragement by trying to enforce another set of daft unenforceable laws .It’s really as plain as that.
At the moment the far right is growing across Europe. Take a closer look to what is going on and you’ll see that the parties like Frauke Petry’s , Germany’s “Alternative for Deutschland” (AFD) or Marine Le Pen of France’s “National Front “or Norbert Hofer of Austria’s “Freedom Party” . Each one of these parties is growing but their ideology is xenophobia, racism and nationalism . They are the natural bedfellows of UKIP in England which is financed mostly by extremely rich right -wing elements and could afford the most expensive campaign to win voters . They could afford the most expensive campaign and it worked for them.It’s the same reason why Trump made such inroads in America .Money talks.These people basically hate immigrants. it’s as simple as that. They need a scapegoat to gain power.
Hofer actually brandished a gun while campaigning and won 35% of the first vote. His message is plain to see.These far- right parties are forcing more centrist parties to force a harder line to remain relevant . That’s what is happening in England at the moment. Cameron attempted to pull the Tories into a more central position and mop up liberal votes but he’s been forced out by an ultra- nationalistic agenda. Of course , I know that many Irish republicans see the breaking down of british society as only a good thing in the same way that they loved the nazis during World War 2… because they saw it as a blow against the empire . That’s fair enough to strike when your enemy ‘s back is against the wall….. but let’s face it the nazis in Germany weren’t exactly any kind of teddy-bears and there’s that little detail of the Holocaust to consider..People are very easily convinced when emotions are high and sense goes out the window. That’s where we are at the moment .
“At the moment the far right is growing across Europe. Take a closer look to what is going on and you’ll see that the parties like Frauke Petry’s , Germany’s “Alternative for Deutschland” (AFD) or Marine Le Pen of France’s “National Front “or Norbert Hofer of Austria’s “Freedom Party” . Each one of these parties is growing but their ideology is xenophobia, racism and nationalism.”
It is common knowledge that they have been the fastest growing parties for the last 10 years Harry, it is good that you have noticed.
The reason they are growing is poor EU policy which is using population numbers to enhance its bargaining position in trade negotiations, encouraging globalisation and prioritising wider corporate interests over national interests.
Not a million miles away from the same causes of WW1 while its discriminative and uncontrolled immigration policy is also resulting in similar feelings that resulted in Hitler coming to power then, playing out not only in Germany, France and Austria as you say, but in most EU nations.
It seems to me, that the EU is not avoiding past mistakes, but ensuring all of the mistakes that led to both world wars are not only repeated but magnified and spread over a wider area.
Like it or not, the road the EU is following is not a brotherhood of nations, it is empire, it is colonisation, it is leading to political and economic hegemony and if that is not enough, plans are in place for a single army pressed for by the biggest war monger nation on this planet, the USA.
Unfortunately these are not scare monging words, these are verifiable facts. It is time people took more interest in what is actually going on and made their own minds up, not simply listen to popular media bias.
so in your view immigrants can come to a country and threaten riots because they dont like the laws of the host country.theres a few european countries were the burka is banned i think they just deal an on the spot fine out of 500quid or something and no riots.they also fine the men who are forcing some of these women to wear this outfit.theres nothing racist about it thats just an oul ploy locals cant wear motorbike helmets in banks,can kids disturb the classroom wearing a balaclava in school no because they are following the law of the land.whoevers in government just needs to make it plain if you dont like the laws dont apply to come.
France banned the burka in schools only as far as I am aware, and there is probably a significantly larger population wearing them than we have. I don’t even remember the last time I saw someone wearing one here. I really don’t think this is an issue we should be concerned about billy.
yes, only a minor mater but one of many minor maters that people want addressed.with brexit now is the time to lay the new ground rules on all the issues affecting many towns and cities throughout britian caused by labours open door policy.
I didn’t say they could come to the country and simply cause riots because they didn’t like the laws . Most of those i referred to are mostly second -generation britons , albeit with darker skin ,who were born and raised here by either Jamaican , Indian or Pakistani parents but were treated in a racist way by corrupt police officers. They were constantly hassled because of their colour and racism was a fact of life…We all know what happened in Hillsborough in Liverpool at a football match in 1989 and how the police tried to cover their incompetence up .Well ..that same kind of incompetence was at the core of those earlier riots . heavy-handed policing .Since that time precious few in Liverpool have any time for “the Sun” newspaper , for example who told blatant lies about them and right-wing politicians which that newspaper gives much support to .
First things ,first, billy.I’m not a great fan of the burka personally and I believe it should be a pesonal choice in the same way a man or woman should choose to wear a hat , a beard or a particular hair-cut. There are plenty of punks about with mohican haircuts and plenty of rastas with braided locks.The way you’re talking billy , we’ll all have to walk about clean -shaven and without any make-up on. No beards, no hats or whatever….all dressed in neat little boiler-suits. Why would anybody want to fear how someone dresses.Now …if a woman was “forced” to wear a burka by her husband , I’d feel differently , but that’s not always the case. I’d want that woman to have a choice. Many women do choose to wear it on their own accord.Many of these men and women you are talking about are born and raised in the UK and Ireland. There are plenty of different religions about too.I know a few buddhists , for example. They do what they want to do and they cause no-one any hassle either.Some might roll out a little mat first thing in the morning and do a bit of yoga facing the sun. …so what? What is the big deal .More power to them, I say. I don’t believe in anything, so who am I to talk? What i would have no tome for is this idea of sharia law. I think the laws are generally adequate already without having another tier for special case. I feel the same way about the House of Lords.As i said to the Mighty Perk …it’s only a heaven for politicians who don’t know they’ve died already.
We’re talking about law and order here and Jessica is right that people are generally not paying attention to what’s really happening in the bigger world .I mentioned Marine Le Pen and France’s National Front of neo-fascists .Her daddy, Jean -Marie Le Pen started that particular ball rolling back in 1972 when we here at home already had plenty on our plates to deal with . He only changed hands in 2011 but we’ve been watching this growth for forty odd years and now it has become critical.
He advocates the death penalty and attempted to become president five times. His daughter actually expelled him from the party because , I imagine, he was giving it a bad name by telling the truth about his awful agenda , whereas she , as a beautiful woman, will be better able to sugar -coat it by selling this shit by putting a a better face on it.
.The question I am asking myself is what two little pissant places like the UK and Ireland are going to be able to do in future if a European fascist state rises in Europe as Hitler managed to do in the 1930’s …and what of Putin’s Russia?. Like I said somewhere else , this is the longest period of peacetime we’ve experienced since 1945. The Russians and the Americans won the war for Britain before Russia and America drew a line in the sand through Germany and,built a wall through it and started off on an arms race and a Cold War.. It’ll be interesting to watch how things develop all right..