At last – a victory for common-sense. And, of course, a victory for the Orange brethren who haven’t been able to find their way home for over two years and whose homelessness has cost the public purse over £20 million. The Ardoyne residents may have thought they could tell the Orangeman where they’re entitled to walk, but today they’ve been proved wrong. Chalk one up for the Orange Order.
Or should we? The quid pro quo of this deal with the residents is that the Orange Order will not march along this route in future years without the agreement of the residents. So just one short march this morning and it’s over. Never again. Chalk one up for the residents.
So has everybody won? Take the perspective of Paragraph One and the Orange Order has won , take that of the second paragraph and it’s the residents who have got the better deal; and of course then there’s the we’re-all-winners perspective.
It’s an interesting as well as very expensive case, this. The march is considered offensive and there’s lots of background to support that belief. The Orange Order is an anti-Catholic organization- always has been, always will be. For them to march in a ‘Catholic area’ is found offensive by most if not all Ardoyne residents. And while it’s good to focus on the future which, presumably, will be march-free (or not – time, as they say, will tell), it is a fact that the offensive act the residents have always opposed they are now accepting. Won’t the Orange Order have a case when they say that if you were able to thole us in 2016, why can’t you thole us in 2017?
Interesting conundrum. Nobody has told us if, next year, the Orange Order will apply to walk the same route as today. Likewise, nobody has told us if, next year, the residents will reject any such application to march as may be made. Maybe the residents will say to themselves “Sure we agreed to it last year and it was no big deal, so we’ll do the same this year”.
I applaud the residents and the Orange Order for coming to an agreement this year that will remove the possibility of conflict for all the coming years; but I’m not sure this isn’t a case of the end justifying the means. Should we agree to a triumphalist act now in order to prevent future triumphalist acts? Or is allowing even one triumphalist act deplorable?
Personally, I don’t think this morning’s march should have taken place. But then I don’t think any of the thousands of parades that infect our city and town streets should be allowed. The notion that an organization opposed to the religious beliefs of a faith held by many people here should be acceptable, should receive public funding, should be allowed to parade again and again and again every summer, or march in circles or urinate against Catholic churches (no, Virginia, to attempt marching and urinating at the same time would be silly) – such a notion is absurd.
Do the thousands of Orange Order marches each year enhance reconciliation? No. Does the Orange Order as an institution encourage respect for those who differ from it? If so, it’s been meeting with little success this past 200 + years. Should those who cannot see the inherent sectarianism in the Orange Order head for Specsavers? As quickly as possible.
There is a lane way between the upper Crumlin Road and Glen Cairn. A small portion of that £20mil could have converted the lane into a road which would have allowed the triumphant March to continue from Ballysillan into GlenCairn estate. Both being PULC there should have been no animus and the jollifications could have continued without let. Indeed on the way back, the plentiful hedging would have provided plenty of opportunities for the brethren and camp followers to relieve themselves of the extra fluid they were carrying. Pees would have rained and the festival would have passed unremarked.
So one has to ask the question, does their festival only work if offence can be given to their neighbours?
Both sides deserve great credit in finding a solution in their hearts.
Such a pity that a group of Dissidents still can’t see the wood from the trees ?
I watched some video last evening from a group representing themselves as a representative community Association.
The hatefulness spewing from them was palpable – but not just against The Orangemen involved , but their hatred remarks towards SF were horrific.
It appears that this Grouping now led by some Dissidents, want to wage war against Republicans, as well as Unionists too.
It was so sad to listen to this rabble spewing negativity.
There are some in the Community unfortunately, who cannot recognise that the Nationalist people of Ardoyne had scored a huge victory through exercising control of the situation going forward – through making a very small gesture ?
I tink that if the Orange Order project this as a victory they will be ridiculed. The solution reminds me of a recalcitant people who keeps asking me to go to the toilet when I know he only wants out for a smoke > I eventually let him out two minutes before the bell when i know it’s of no real advantage to him. The big winner is the taxpayer. The old OO were clearly relieved to be offered a way out of the corner into which they had painted themselves. I personally think that SF overplayed the OO/Residents confrontatioal thing. The result is the Brits can play the role of honest broker and say “What can you do with these people?”. Of course the Order must engage with residents but there is an element of truth about certain non-residents getting up early specifically to be offended. While the OO is a supremacist organisation, yhis is far from say ing that every Orangeman is a supremacist bigot or that is a monolith, unilaterally incapable of change however slowly . The OO performs a social function in some rural areas particularly. Here in Newry Altnaveigh House set up by the Ulster Scots Agency is open to the whole community off ering a wide choice of lessons, corses and activities. The management have been most generous in facilitating th Young Ireland ers group here, set up to honour the memory of Martin and Mitchel. A local Orange band Crimson Arrows and members od the Hunter Moore memorial band participated in events commemorating the Great Hunger including the first National Commemoration which was held in Newry.
PS I loved the aside about marching round in circles and urinating at the same time. Reminds me of a remark I heard in England about the denizens of a certain Ulster county. The raconteur, himself a native of the same county, said that his fellow countymen were unique insofar as “they eat (pronunced ‘ate’) standin’ and piss walkin’.”
Apologies for typos “I think” ,
“a recalcitant pupil”
As they say it takes a bigot to see a bigot.
“As they say it takes a ***** to see a *****.”
Speaking from experience Robert?….
Please don’t engage in abuse, Ryan…
When the civil people, no matter where they belong, come into their own everyone’s rights will be upheld.
How are Irish people regarded in the rest of the world? Some indicators may be
found in Fergal Lenehan’s book, ‘Stereotypes, Ideology and Foreign Correspondents.’
It would appear for some we are, “a country beyond the European pale” while others
point out Ireland has produced Nobel laureates for literature. According to artist,
Brian McCarty, “Optimism, like creativity, is part of the Irish cultural DNA.”
The issue of Brexit will dominate the Conservative Party conference this weekend.
It is evident from her statements that the British Prime Minister is adept at saying one
thing while she means something else in relation to Brexit and the partition of
Ireland. 56% of the population in the north of Ireland voted to remain in the European
Union. Many MLA’ s here have stated publicly their preference to remain part of the
European Union while some remain coy on the issue.
The evidence is that the majority of people in Ireland wish to remain part of the
European Union. The need to spend millions of pounds in order to police marches
suggests there is an inherent problem with the marches and that some in this part of
the world have a misguided sense of financial priorities, perhaps one reason we have
not got a Nobel laureate for economics.
There is another side to present agreement, which in Ulster, historically is, future disagreements, as the boul red injuns would say, or, if you prefer, indigenous Americans, ‘white man speak with forked tongue’, obviously, here, for white man read orange man.
They will march triumphantly in a part of Ireland they’re not wanted, as I used to say to my Mrs about the Ormeau Rd. parade, her Daddi was a member in Ballynafeigh, she would state, ‘it’s a protestant road’ (I thought it was asphalt) but would, rightly, retort, ‘ before it was a protestant road it was a catholic field’, she’s yet to concede on that, the orangies in north Belfast, not far from her area at the foot of bothar na Sean Cill, shall, no doubt, feel they are still in control, the ‘agreement’ brokered by CARA, or, elements of the Sinn Fein peaceniks, soon to become new SDLP/Fianna Fail, are forcing a march through, what lesson is this teaching the orangies? Threaten and you’ll get away with it, your police force will continue to beat the fenians off their area for you and never mind about the millions soent looking after your trespassed halting site.
In the alternative, CARA and the Church, who always caved into the brits for money, could have said ‘crabh as’.
Laganside is not the only location on the Me Eyeland of Ireland, Esteemed Blogmeister, where the Trumpet Voluntary of Triumphalism is to be heard this morning, going forward.
For it is also to be heard on Liffeyside, courtesy of (gulp) The Unionist Times.
In the form of a baroque and rolling interview with one of TUT’s favourite foster sons of all time to mark his retirement from the sponsored (!) chair of the Professorship of Irish History in Oxford University.
During the course of this vigorously rigorous interview, an impressively self-satisfied and auto-congratulatory Roy Foster (for it is he !) rolled with the pin-point punches of his interrogator even as he dealt with many of the same Twaddell-type themes from his chair beneath the dreamy spires of Oxford.
-Partition was a tragedy for Southern Protestants and that is not often realized enough.
So, if the beleaguered pedlars of t. in Camp Twaddel thought they had it tough, let them hop on their Mopeds and vroom down south of the Black Sow’s Dyke to the banks of the eminently sniffy Liffey where their fellow Prods have lived an extremely iffy existence since Partition.
There, once they have dismounted from their Mopeds they will discover who the real M.O.P.E.s are.
For the first shocking sight to greet them will be the Twin Towers of TUFness which illustrate with a certain gothic angularity the sheer Trodden Under Footedness (TUF) of their co-religionists in the Free Southern Stateen:
-Christchurch and St. Patrick’s Cathedral.
Exhibit A and Exhibit B, m’lud, of the grim existence of the Most Oppressed Prods Ever. It is then, and only then, that the Moped M.O.P.E. s will realized how much of a doddle their Camp Twaddel existence has been.
-This stupid assumption is made often by people that Irish Protestants are unionists.
Now, Roy the Retiring Prof does not specify who these ‘people’ might be; but it is a fair to middling guess it is probably ,yes, those ‘emotional’ Irish Papes who never stopped to gape inside either of the Twin Towers. Being inhibited, of course, by the red tape of Romanism, going backward.
For it they had gaped inside, the Papes would have the scotch tape removed from their unseeing eyes and spotted that smattering of tattered Union Jacks, that chiseled litany of imperial persuasion from Pondicherry to Khartoum to Lucknow and Cawnpore. Not to mention, the eye-watering odour of superior sanctimoniousness.
How, for effin Heaven’s sake, could they then come to the conclusion that the Prods were godless Yunes ?
(The effin refers to the cool dude use of the word ‘fecking’ by the eminent Prof in his ivory t. Who is also fluent in such ebony neologisms as ‘yeah, right’. Re-spect).
And how, then, might the Mope Opera of Mopeds react to the Twin Towers still standing, despite dungeon, mire and sword?No problem. There is always a rationale to hand: if the Papes cannot trust each other how can the Prods be expected to trust them?
Meaning?
Meaning, one glance inside a Papish church will tell you all you need to know: no prayer books, missals or bibles to be seen. They just don’t trust EACH OTHER.
Come the night, come the arsonists. One morning –mark ye well the forebodings of the Moped Mopes, the tragic Southern Prods will wake to the smouldering embers of their, erm, ‘borrowed’ buildings. With M and P the first suspects to be mapped:
Maguire and Patterson.
-But then, I suppose I’d always come back to something I’ve said often, which is that the border has been reinforced and re-entrenched by the Provisional IRA.
So, spoke the United Irelander, Roy F.
Could Roy F. be short even for (gasp) Rifle ? For one awesome moment The Perkin’s inner TV Announcer called Julian had begun to mouth-sculpt the C-word, C for Con-tin-u-it-y.
Happily, that unworthy low-watt light bulb moment was quenched as quickly as it had appeared.
In the course of this, albeit harrowing betimes, interview, Roy Foster ticks all the boxes, squares all the circles, presses all the buttons, except, alas, one.
-The name of the mysterious anonymous donor who sponsored the Chair of Irish History at Oxford University upon which the rear end of the man with the rear-view mirror of Revisionism was first ensconsed.
But, fear not: the clue lies in the a-word there: a for alas.
With his irresistible Toy Boy- looks the retiring Roy is a sure-fire bet to feature high on the A- list of Desirable Interviewees for High-end Hostesses who have yet to vacate their studio chairs.
Perhaps, even, he will be queried, quizzed and quartered by the Dame Dosh Finucanes or the Yawnya Lawlors of the Airways. Paddy Power is already saying it’s 6 to 5 he will (willingly) undergo The Girly Grilling for which RTE has become a, erm, byeword.
And so reveal the name of the Mysterious Anonymous Donor . (MAD).
-Call him Mr. K. That would be, K for Kebab.
here’s the mirror’s view
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2016/09/30/garc-and-the-orange-order-in-ardoyne-belfast/
It is not really practical to ban all parades as Jude seems to be suggesting.
The boring solution is to enforce existing rules,,ban groups that fail to behave properly, and allow the peaceful and respectful to continue.
” it is a fact that the offensive act the residents have always opposed they are now accepting”
In my own opinion I think a small minority of the residents supported this deal. I thought the deal was a winner for the residents but only as long as there’s no return parades in the future. That part is getting more and more blurred, I have tried researching the exact details of the deal and all it says is next years return parade will be called off but 2018 is open for “discussion”. Thats not what was originally told to residents and I know the Orange Order/Unionism can be trusted just as much as a drug addict in a chemist could.
I have watched videos and seen photos of Father Gary Donegan being confronted by a mob of protestors and getting “Shame! Shame!” screamed in his face. I have not seen any photos/videos but apparently Gerry Kelly was “chased out” of Ardoyne and had to have PSNI protection. This and the tons of comments online from Ardoyne residents clearly shows a very large amount oppose this deal. The general impression seems to be that money has been given to CARA to cave in and I think they did. Be in no doubt, this isn’t over and I’m starting to think this is going to backfire on Sinn Fein. Its just the tip of the iceberg, the reality is Sinn Fein is failing to deliver most of what they promised and they are pandering to political Unionism. I couldn’t bring myself to vote for them in May’s election. I always encourage republicans to vote and I still do but they should do so wisely.
Also, numerous residents have said that the Loyalist bands played the Famine song when they passed a certain point. I don’t find that hard to believe given Loyalist bands do this all the time at St Patricks Chapel.
“I applaud the residents and the Orange Order for coming to an agreement this year”
I don’t. Indeed I find such an attitude very strange. Are residents meant to be “grateful” that an illegal sectarian camp that the PSNI refused to remove for 3 years is now gone? Are Catholics suppose to be “grateful” that a sectarian, bigoted parade marching through/near their area is over? For this year anyway. This is the problem with Nationalism. No wonder the term “croppies lie down” exists because that’s what most Nationalists do, lay down and accept their lot. The KKK would NEVER be tolerated marching at all, never mind near a Black community, so why is the Orange Order being tolerated? I’m honestly embarrassed by this mind set by many Nationalists, its pathetic. I clearly disassociate myself from it, it doesn’t represent me and never will. If any Orange band ever wanted to parade by my house I assure you it would never happen.
This current “peace and reconciliation” agenda isn’t going to work because its rejected by Unionism because they want to maintain a sectarian society. Tolerating sectarianism in any way is not going to bring peace. Sinn Fein’s vote already went down at the last election and if they continue down this path of not delivering and making empty promises then they will head down the same route as the SDLP. They and the DUP are involved in a shady deal business. Its obvious dissidents will take their place in the long run if this continues and that’s not surprising. Indeed one republican made a picture on twitter showing SDLP/SF members standing together with the banner: “The Stoop Down Low Party”. I couldn’t help but agree….