Rev Jesse Jackson meets the BBC

The Reverend Jesse Jackson, former associate of the Rev Martin Luther King, was in town yesterday.  He did a phoned interview with Seamus McKee on BBC Radio Ulster on Evening Extra. I may be wrong, but I suspect Seamus may not have got the answers he expected. I’ll give the transcript and then the link:

 

Seamus McKee : You will know very well the association between the civil rights movement and the SDLP, of which party John Hume was a founder. In the recent election to Westminster, the SDLP lost their three seats in the Commons. Now how do you see the future for that wing of politics at the moment?

Rev Jesse Jackson: In a democracy you win some, you lose some, but you have the right of self-determination. There’s no guarantee you’ll have all victories. The ANC faces challenges now, the Democratic Party in America faces challenges now, and yet if you have the freedom to participate, that’s the ultimate goal – you win some and you lose some. The ultimate victory is the right to participate.

Seamus McKee: And that you believe is now something that Sinn Féin has embarked upon- and how do you see the future for that party? Because it doesn’t take its seats at Westminster. They had a very successful Westminster election

Rev Jesse Jackson: Well, that’s a protest that is ongoing. They’re going through – they’re going forward – forward ever by hope, backwards never by fear. And that’s the good news. They couldn’t bargain on occupation, they couldn’t bargain on the gun. Now they can bargain. That’s what democracy gives you – the right to fight for the right.

Seamus McKee: You have spoken of Martin McGuinness as a transformative figure. There will be those who, while they recognize the change in him and the change he brought about, will still remember his past, a past which was one in which he not only supported but also participated in it as an IRA commander. Was that a problem for you, as someone who opposed violence all your life?

Rev Jesse Jackson: Well I opposed the violent predicament he was in, living under occupation. If Britain had given the freedom deserved, there wouldn’t have been violence at all.

Seamus McKee: What others – and obviously you – see as occupation, the unionists for example see as being part of their right. To be members of the United Kingdom, that’s the Britishness which they identify so closely with.

Rev Jesse Jackson: Well, Britain has a right to occupy Britain, not in a place elsewhere in the world. Ireland is Ireland, Britain is Britain. Ireland is a free, sovereign country. And so is Britain – a free sovereign country. No one has the right to occupy anyone else.

Seamus McKee: And the rights of the people here who want to be British and who want that link with Britain to continue?

Rev Jesse Jackson: They have the right to move to Britain. But they don’t have the right to surrender to the limits imposed by occupation.

Seamus McKee: They’ve come a long way too now, haven’t they? They’re now sharing power – or were – with Sinn Féin in government here.

Rev Jesse Jackson: And that’s the good news about Martin McGuinness’s leadership. He led them from the point of moving from resistance to reconciliation.

The interview with Rev Jessie Jackson begins at about 1 hour 25 mins into the programme. I’ve left off the first minute or so in the transcript.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08tfm5f

,

61 Responses to Rev Jesse Jackson meets the BBC

  1. moser June 16, 2017 at 9:42 am #

    Thanks for that Jude. I would have completely missed that.

  2. Ciarán June 16, 2017 at 9:43 am #

    Now that’s just brilliant stuff from a world renowned voice. The truth will out!

  3. Billy Gray. June 16, 2017 at 10:04 am #

    { Sorry to come across as BLUNT and in a Lay Mans Term} BUT, Take Outta that Seamus…..

  4. giordanobruno June 16, 2017 at 10:16 am #

    Fairly bland stuff if this transcript is anything to go by.
    It does illustrate the perils of commenting on complex situations in faraway places.
    Suggesting those who want to be British have the right to ‘move to Britain’ is is a clear indication that the Rev is at best a bit naive when it comes to our corner of the world.

  5. fiosrach June 16, 2017 at 10:30 am #

    Just because the wrong has been done in a country far away doesn’t make it any less wrong. Americans are not all as naive as some people like to paint them. If I buy a house in Spain for the climate and the way of life, how many generations will it take before I stop being British. And for Radio two thirds this is not bland stuff. And there is nothing complex about colonialism, imperialism and land theft. Maybe you find it complex,gio?

  6. Ann Fitzpatrick June 16, 2017 at 10:33 am #

    Thanks for the transcript – gives an interesting perspective. Those who consider themselves British and living in Ireland are considered Irish when outside Ireland and that is their dilemma

    The forward struggle is moving to an Ireland that accommodates that and within EU this was more and si more possible.

  7. moser June 16, 2017 at 10:33 am #

    Gio, I think your statement is stretching your credibility. Come off it! I think I’m starting to understand you: your taking the piss.

    • giordanobruno June 16, 2017 at 11:55 am #

      moser (and paddy)
      Perhaps you are being overly influenced by the esteem (richly deserved) in which Jesse Jackson is held.
      If you heard someone on the radio saying those who consider themselves British (whose families have lived here for centuries) could move to Britain would you not consider that a rather naive understanding of our situation?
      Also
      ‘If Britain had given the freedom deserved, there wouldn’t have been violence at all.’
      What does he mean? If Britain had withdrawn in 1969, say, there would have been no violence?
      As for taking the piss, yes we all do that from time to time, but on this occasion no I am genuinely asking what he means by these statements.
      I am not sure what paddy means by ‘gio’s perspective’ but hopefully we are allowed to challenge the words of anyone even the esteemed Jesse Jackson.

  8. paddykool June 16, 2017 at 11:19 am #

    There’s not much to say really .Gio’s response is the expected one from gio’s perspective.The erstwhile leader of the DUP , the Rev Ian Paisley , also had major problems with understanding these “complex” issues when there was nothing complex about them at all. It is as clear as crystal. He led his followeres to beat Civil Rghts marchers off the streets …. marchers who supported Martin Luther King in America, I might add. I know because i was there when he did it .I dare say he’d have been doing the very same in America to Civil rights marchers there and supporting those who beat them off the streets too. These people all across the world weren’t just marching for the fun of it .They had damned good reasons to put themselves on the line . The reasons were simple.They were against a corrupt and a corrupting mindset that had been imposed on them. In the case of Ireland , Britain was in the dock for allowing it to be set up in the first place and instituting a built-in gerrymander and for closing a blind eye to the imbalance and corruption that followed for fifty years.They are now still in the dock with their crass designs on power at any cost .Their (Tory)dalliance with the DUP is hardly even-handed in view of the previous international agreement and the majority of people across the world can see that very clearly for what it is and always was. Like I say .It is very, very simple.

  9. RJC June 16, 2017 at 11:30 am #

    Sometimes it can take an outsider to state the bleedin’ obvious –

    ‘Ireland is Ireland, Britain is Britain…No one has the right to occupy anyone else.’

  10. Eolach June 16, 2017 at 12:23 pm #

    The Rev: was correct Gio , If being British is so important , there are boats and planes…..we Irish can’t move anywhere ,we’re already here ….in Ireland . Nothing complex at all , a primary school child could figure the logic….If you steal something , no matter how long you have it , or how much you may have altered it , it is still not yours , it’s still stolen and you have to give it back !

    • giordanobruno June 16, 2017 at 1:50 pm #

      Eolach
      Well you are entitled to that view.
      But you are talking about people whose families go back generations, most likely inter mingling with the native population along the way.
      I thought we were supposed to be respecting each others identity these days!
      Boats and planes eh?
      Classy.

      • Scott Rutherford June 16, 2017 at 1:56 pm #

        Indeed Gio

        Eolach obviously didnt get the “equality, integrity and respect” memo.

        • fiosrach June 16, 2017 at 4:03 pm #

          Not much when it’s only one sided.

  11. Freddiemallins June 16, 2017 at 12:49 pm #

    Jesse has had the misfortune to have to confront ‘The Clan’ in his own homeland. I think he’s well aware of the similarities and that’s why he’s less than sympathetic to the “British” in Norneverland.

  12. michael c June 16, 2017 at 3:03 pm #

    As someone who does’nt want to see anyone get a boat or plane,it’s obvious that the out side world does not see this place as anything but an illegitimate gerrymandered statelet.

    • giordanobruno June 16, 2017 at 3:55 pm #

      michael Did the rest of the world not generally think the GFA was a good agreement.
      In it;
      ‘the right of “the people of Northern Ireland” to “identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British’ ‘was specifically recognised.
      Now maybe Jesse Jackson hasn’t read the GFA,but I would have expected Jude and others here to be familiar with it.

      • fiosrach June 16, 2017 at 4:07 pm #

        Like the ex pats in Spain. They identify themselves and are accepted as British. Big deal. It doesn’t mean they own Spain.

      • Wolfe tone June 16, 2017 at 4:43 pm #

        Catch a grip……it’s very likely ‘the rest of the world’ are even aware of the GFA let alone to have read it. It’s also very likely even those who voted for it are aware of its contents, after all they were simply told to vote for peace I.e no explanation required there.

        • giordanobruno June 16, 2017 at 6:38 pm #

          wolfie
          Do you agree with the part about people having the right to a British identity regardless of whether we are in the UK or in a united Ireland?
          Perhaps you think that unionists whose ancestors have been here for hundreds of years are still occupiers.

          • Wolfe tone June 16, 2017 at 7:56 pm #

            Sorry Gio, but I never voted for the GFA…..I have an inherent distrust of anything the British draw up. But I never objected to anyone who wished to vote for it in the interests of peace.

          • giordanobruno June 16, 2017 at 8:22 pm #

            wolfie
            So do you agree with the part about people having the right to a British identity regardless of whether we are in the UK or in a united Ireland?

          • Wolfe tone June 17, 2017 at 9:21 am #

            People can label themselves British or whatever they like; I care little about that. However anybody born and reared in Ireland would be viewed as Irish by most normal people. It ain’t rocket science although if folk claim to be Irish Britons or whatever that’s their business.

  13. paddykool June 16, 2017 at 4:37 pm #

    The biggest problem is that there really hasn’t been any proper integration at all. That’s the real reason we now have this awful situation we’re in . There are now two tribes. We have one people with two differing viewpoints .The native Irish have continued with their culture but those who were Planters have never really embraced the culture of their new land. Instead , they have remained wedded to some weird 17th century , pre- Enlightenment ideas .It’s not like America where every immigrant brings their own culture with them but still becomes an American citizen with one worldview and gradually blends in.Here we have a group who refuse to accept their Irishness and prefer to see themselves as some nebulous “British” brand …a brand I might add that has no real relation to the way that most British people in Wales, Scotland and England embrace or see themselves. You can see that perfectly in the reaction to the DUP across the current medis . These people we are talking about really are a uniquely odd law onto themselves.They also expect everyone else to buy into this version of reality. In terms of respect , what can you say about someone or a people whose worldviews are wholly based on some texts which stretch back thousands of years to a time of simple tribal mores ; a time before any real understanding of the universe.How can you respect anyone who denies climate change or who believes that the earth is a few thousand years old and does not appear to have the wherewithal or intelligence to understand why this is not so.As for respecting culture ? We’ve argured that one over and over here for years here.First we need to define what “culture” actually is, or even means.Then we’ve got to decide if it’s agood idea for a section of the community to pretend that it’s a good idea to annually antagonise the other section of the community with ritually abusive displays of arrogance .Whether it’s a good idea for some politicians to engage with their supporters in the act of burning effigies of political rivals who represent half of the population and who suck up to violent paramilitary gangsters at the drop of a sash. it’s all there every summer but it also extended in the local parliament where the First Minister lost the run of herself and thought she was only representing only one section of the population.

    • giordanobruno June 16, 2017 at 6:43 pm #

      paddy
      I do not think the majority of unionists would refuse to accept their Irishness.
      The Life and Times survey from last year showed only 21% who considered themselves British only.

      • paddykool June 16, 2017 at 7:00 pm #

        I think the idea that unionists here fully accept their Irishness could be the start of yet another debate , gio.The DUP now represents unionism in its totality…they got the vote share and thrashed the UUP and Alliance …just as Sinn Fein represents Irish nationalism by upping their vote share and demolishing the SDLP. If the DUP represents unionism in its entirety and you figure that they see themselves as Irishmen and embrace their Irishness, why are we even talking about problems with an Irish Language Act? Why have the DUP been dragging their heels on that and why do they insist that a cobbled together dialect that we’ve all shared here is actually an entirely unique language called Ulster Scots? They have dragged their heels on an Irish language Act for a long time when it should be no threat to their sense of Irishness and should not harm their view of themselves in any way.

        • giordanobruno June 16, 2017 at 7:30 pm #

          paddy
          You are arguing with a point I never made.
          There are clearly some who refuse to accept any Irish part of their identity.
          But there are many others who to varying degrees see themselves as both British and Irish.
          That right is enshrined in the GFA. If Jesse Jackson does not know that (and it appears he does not) then he should probably do a bit more research.
          No-one not even someone as respected as him should be telling people they should leave their homes.

          • paddykool June 16, 2017 at 8:07 pm #

            I think Jesse is basically pointing out that they are asking for something impossible to sustain forever. I think it will ultimately be impossible to sustain this weird “Britishness” that no -one in Britain recognises…except possibly for some real nutjobs on the far right- wing fringes of the Tory party ,or the near-fascist UKIP . Nobody wants anyone to abandon their homes but many want them to accept where they live and who their neighbours are and have been for centuries. They are the ones who need to adapt to their environment , not the other way round. The native Irish are not in the wrong here.unionism haven’t been too good at assimilating with it so far and many are beginning to wonder if they will ever be able to do it. They are alien to the British culture of what they like to call “the Mainland” , but they insist also in holding themselves apart from the rest of the population they live with to the point where we have separation right across society. That can’t be sustained forever.

          • giordanobruno June 16, 2017 at 8:30 pm #

            paddy
            You got all that from one line in which he says people who see themselves as British an go and live in Britain?
            There is separation in our society but not to the degree you seem to see it.
            I see people from unionist backgrounds living and working beside people from nationalist backgrounds all over the place.
            Many of my friends are in mixed relationships.I know catholic unionists and protestant republicans.
            If we could get rid of separate schooling it would be an added bonus but many from the nationalist community are still resistant to that.

        • paddykool June 16, 2017 at 11:30 pm #

          Yes …Gio .I got all that from so little .I know some have assimilated and i know that not everyone is a complete lunatic fanaatic and have the facility to live in the modern world, but i look at the reality and realise that those progressives still allow the mad ones to tell their story for them .It can’t be denied .There are no progressive thinkers coming through who are able to cut through all that bullshit and nonsense.It’s very obvious that even the youth cannot throw off the nonsense that their parents instlll in their futures.The flat earth fixation continues from one generation to the next. Look quickly at the conservatism at the very heart of unionism .Look at how they suck up to the Tories. Where is any radical thought ?

  14. Eolach June 16, 2017 at 4:51 pm #

    We did ,and still do advocate ” equality, integrity and respect ” but it’s like having a conversation with a mirror…. it’s going nowhere ….like everything here,it’s a two way street. Gio , isn’t it a pity the DUP didn’t and don’t think the GFA is a good idea. Yes British people have been here for generations but they didn’t intermingle…..they preferred ” croppies lie down “and if they could would still prefer the same. Television and the internet have opened and exposed the sectarianism and racism endemic within Unionism…. the Rev Jackson is not alone…. the world is aware.

    • giordanobruno June 16, 2017 at 6:34 pm #

      Eolach
      British people didn’t intermingle? At all? Over 800 years?
      Unionists may think of themselves as British, but their home is here.
      Would you accept that, or should they all go and live in Britain as Rev Jackson seems to suggest.?

  15. fiosrach June 16, 2017 at 5:33 pm #

    I’m sure all you political anoraks would have been listening to Nolan this morning as he queried one of the well paid top cops about the rise in PSNI down time. 40,000 hours last year. Nolan had no idea it was so bad. On top of that, 20 ‘officers’ had to move house because of threats from dissidents and loyalist paramilitaries. Steve was in like a terrier up a rathole asking which loyalist paramilitaries were involved. But the poor cop was unable/unwilling to say. We all know that he couldn’t mention the supporters of members of our new UK government, now could he? Anyway they ran round and round and in and out but no straight answer was forthcoming.

  16. ANOTHER JUDE June 17, 2017 at 4:16 am #

    People are always criticising immigrants particularly Muslims for their failure to assimilate. The unionists have been in Ireland for centuries and they still haven’t bloody assimilated!!!

  17. Eolach June 17, 2017 at 6:25 am #

    Gio, it doesn’t help your argument when you misconstrue what the Rev Jackson said. He said ” They have the right to move to Britain “….not ‘ that they should all go and live in Britain ‘ .My interpretation of that is , if you have such a strong desire for your former homeland then nothing is stopping you returning there. Undeniably Unionism is a backward , negative force in Ireland….to try and maintain a “colony” and attempt to control the “natives”, they have used every criminal and iniquitous means at their disposal .They could have accepted us as equals and played and important role in Irish society but the road they willingly chose has left a dwindling and unsustainable population being numerically squeezed into a tighter and tighter corner. The hand of friendship was spurned too many times and unfortunately it now appears that the population in their beloved Britain is none too keen on them either. I used to subscribe to the persuasion argument but recent events have confirmed to me that logic seems to be inherently missing in Unionism …..without logic, reasoning is impossible so we’ll leave it to demographics and political ability.

    • giordanobruno June 17, 2017 at 7:43 am #

      Eolach
      Maybe like wolfetone you did not vote for the GFA either.
      It clearly recognises that people who see themselves as British can continue to see themselves that way without being told to go and live in Britain.In fact it is given equal status to the Irish identity

      There is a lot of doublethink going on around this issue as far as I can see.
      On the one hand the GFA is held up lke the bible when it suits, but on the other hand it is ignored when it comes to ‘occupiers’ or ‘colonists who apparently have a homeland across the Irish Sea.
      This is not an expression I have heard unionists use and I suspect they see their homeland as right here in the north of Ireland. Perhaps Scott or AmG can expand on that..
      When you talk of them ‘returning there’ you re displaying a lack of understanding equal to that of Rev Jackson.
      I don’t know what he really meant and I am only going by this transcript.
      My point is he clearly has only a vague understanding of the issues here and he might be better thinking before he speaks the next time.

      • paddykool June 17, 2017 at 9:21 am #

        The Rev Jackson is talking about “rights” when he speaks of having the right to live freely as a british person while in Ireland…..just as you’d say a Frenchman has the right to his Frenchness while living in another country such as Ireland or England. That doesn’t mean that they can demand that the native Irish should have to abide by that same sense of “britishness ” or “Frenchness” four hundred years later. If you stretch that argument to an incoming people, you’d also have to accept that immigrants coming into a country should have the right to bring in and impose their own “sharia laws”. I don’t agree with that either. I think people should abide by the laws already there .There has to be assimilation.
        The original Planters were given lands that were taken from the native Irish as a political act.That has never changed.Most of the lands in the north-east still remains in their ancestors ‘ hands, generations later.Take a look at the map where unionism scores big in elections and you can see that line in the sand.Obviously they now feel they own the land they have occupied , but it is still stolen goods.It’s a fact of historical record.
        In that respect , the Good Friday/St Andrews Agreements were literally only holding agreements to allow a social war to cease and give everyone a breather.Everyone finally knew that a violent war was leading nowhere . That’s not to say that both sides hadn’t got specific axes to grind.
        The Civil Rights movement across the world was something that was embraced fully by nationalists here..They saw the iniquity in America and supported the oppressed blacks there .They supported the oppressed blacks in South Africa too.They did that because they wholly identified with their causes and their struggles.They had an affinity with them.The unionist community here , for their own reasons do not appear to have supported any of that and when it came to the Civil Rights within their own community here (and i mean the entire population and not just the part with the PUL) they gave little or no support to the movement . They literally opposed it with violence. There were a few of a unionist mindset who supported Civil Rights …men like Ivan Cooper, but the majority saw the movement as a threat rather than a righteous crusade.They saw Civil Rights as a movement of devilry rather than reform.Was that based on inherent racism? I feel that it might be a big part of it , given that loyalism is also known for its racism.
        So the agreement ‘s idea was to allow everyone to live in peace until such times as the demographics dictate that the island will be re-united or not .It seems to be veering towards eventual re-uniting given the numbers, even though unionism is again on a temporary short-time high after their “save the Union” election.Always remember that it it was essentially a deliberately gerrymandered state to provide unionism with a supposedly permananent majority within a small enclave. That majority has really gone and now teeters in the balance.Within that everyone has the right to leave the land of their birth and live elsewhere if circumstances allow. Within the embrace of the EU it was always easier to do that ,but the DUP seem intent on chopping off that plank too.. Ireland is a beautiful land but there are many times I’ve wondered why I ever came back to live in it.

        • giordanobruno June 17, 2017 at 9:24 am #

          paddy
          No he talked about the right for them to go and live in Britain.
          Try this.
          People who consider themselves Irish living in Northern Ireland have the right to go and live in Ireland.
          Sound ok to you?

          • Wolfe tone June 17, 2017 at 10:29 am #

            “People who consider themselves Irish living in Northern Ireland have the right to go and live in Ireland.”

            Lmfao! You need help.

          • giordanobruno June 17, 2017 at 10:40 am #

            wolfie
            Yes it would be ridiculous wouldn’t it.
            And yet that is what Jesse Jackson is saying in his great wisdom about unionists.
            As you do not support the GFA and presumably see them as occupiers you have some excuse. But for all those who do support the GFA I don’t see how they can defend his statement.

  18. Eolach June 17, 2017 at 9:51 am #

    Gio , you can make all the defensive arguments for Unionism and their obsequious attachment to a bullying neighbour that has used genocide on many occasions to try and obliterate the Irish people from the face of the earth but the facts speak for themselves.
    1/ This is Ireland ….all 32 counties and all the people born here are Irish
    2 /England invaded this country as she did many others…that doesn’t give it any legitimacy
    3/Several times they put the country to the sword and used slavery ,deportation and starvation to try and annihilate us.
    4/When everything else failed they decided to evict us off our lands and supplant us with a garrison who would naturally multiply and provide an everlasting occupation army….provided of course they were convinced of the worthlessness of the “natives”and given perks along the way.
    5/ That garrison remains to this day…still in a defensive garrison mode and still as repulsively contemptuous of all things Irish.
    6/ We have the right under international law to use whatever means necessary to regain our land and we , once again , exercised that right from 1969 onwards
    7/The GFA was an effort to afford us the right to live together in peace and harmony. The Republican movement embraced this attempt at cohesion , disbanded it’s army and genuinely worked for a peaceful everlasting settlement.
    8/ Unionism once again deceitfully used this as another opportunity to shore up it’s position ….it never disbanded its multiple “armies” , it never accepted the agreement and it cynically exploited it to again try and outsmart its neighbours.
    9/ Unionism itself is wholly responsible for it’s predicament….The Rev Jackson is only an onlooker, seeing what the world sees , a stubborn and recalcitrant people walking in ever decreasing circles into obscurity.

    • giordanobruno June 17, 2017 at 10:35 am #

      Eolach
      There is some nonsense in there but I will leave it as it is beside the point.
      None of that has anything to do with the silly comment Jesse Jackson made.
      Do you accept the GFA or not?

  19. Eolach June 17, 2017 at 12:21 pm #

    Everything I have written is factual and can easily be backed up….I will leave you a quote from Euripides
    “Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”

    • giordanobruno June 17, 2017 at 1:01 pm #

      Eolach
      Here is the relevant bit of the GFA:

      ‘.. recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
      identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
      may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
      British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
      not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.’

      Do you accept that and if so could you forward it to Jesse Jackson.

  20. Eolach June 17, 2017 at 1:44 pm #

    Certainly pertinent and I accept that , but to whom does it apply ? The DUP make no bones about the fact that they didn’t and don’t support the GFA…..they have reneged on every possible aspect. They represent the majority of Unionism who willingly , with the backing from their illegal paramilitaries , vote for them. This , in my eyes , negates the validity of the GFA for them and their followers …..you can’t have your cake and eat it…..and I covered your misinterpretation of Rev: Jackson’s words before

  21. giordanobruno June 17, 2017 at 1:57 pm #

    Eolach
    It applies to everyone whether they accept the GFA or not.
    Just as the law applies to everyone whether they follow it or not.
    It is not negated because they have not signed up to it or because they do not like it.
    It was agreed by the majority.
    Anyway the point is that is how Jesse Jackson should have answered the question in my view.
    It suggests he lacks any real understanding of the situation here, bless him.

  22. fiosrach June 17, 2017 at 6:18 pm #

    Maybe Jesse has an acute sense of smell and he can recognize the stench of centuries of racism and discrimination. A smell he would be all too familiar with. The GFA just says that people in the six counties have the right to identify themselves as Irish/British and be accepted as such.Full stop.

    • giordanobruno June 17, 2017 at 6:39 pm #

      fiosrach
      Yes if only he had acknowledged that instead of nonsense about people whose home is here having the right to go and live in Britain.
      It is quite clear where his sympathies lie and that is fair enough, but it still displays a weak understanding.

  23. Eolach June 17, 2017 at 7:12 pm #

    Gio, using your reasoned type of questioning,
    Have they the right to go and live in Britain, or not?

    • giordanobruno June 17, 2017 at 7:28 pm #

      Eolach
      According to the GFA, Northern Ireland is part of the UK until the majority decide otherwise. That has been accepted by Sinn Fein and by the majority who voted for it.
      So to unionists they are already living in Britain.
      That is exactly the point that Jesse Jackson misses,and that is why I said the situation was more complex here than he understands.

      • Emmet June 18, 2017 at 4:51 am #

        Gio, Britain is Scotland, England and Wales. The north is not, nor has it ever been, part of Britain. Even if the Unionist believe they are already living in Britain if they check a map they will notice they don’t. I once say Mike Nesbit argue with a British MP live on air (when he was a UTV news presenter) who said N. Ireland was not in Britain but the UK. The MP most have thought Mike was crazy.

        Does anyone know where this myth originates? Is it taught in Geography in State schools? Is it from the media?

        • giordanobruno June 18, 2017 at 9:00 am #

          Emmet
          I am just quoting the GFA. As agreed by SInn Fein and all those who voted for it.

          • Emmet June 18, 2017 at 12:16 pm #

            I don’t think the agreement I read ever claimed the north was in Britain? Do you think it does? It almost as if people who have undergone some weird psychological manipulation and when they read the words ‘United Kingdom’ they see ‘Britain’. UK Passports say ‘United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The Olympic team is called Great Britain and Northern Ireland (although most English just ignore the NI part!). Again does anyone know the source of this bizarre idea?

          • giordanobruno June 18, 2017 at 1:08 pm #

            Emmet
            Yes you are right of course that the GFA refers to the UK or union with Great Britain, but generally Britain is shorthand for the UK and no-one is ever going to say UK-ish. It is not that bizarre in the real world.
            I don’t think Rev Jackson was making his point in regard to the nuances of geographical versus political terminology.

          • Emmet June 18, 2017 at 1:21 pm #

            I think Britain being shorthand for N. Ireland is bizarre. It is like coming across a group of people who use the word banana as shorthand for pear. Who uses this short hand and were has the idea originated from? I understand ( well not really) people living in Ireland claiming British nationality, but I don’t see how people can claim the north is part of a landmass separated by a large sea.

          • giordanobruno June 18, 2017 at 2:02 pm #

            Emmet
            Britain is used as shorthand for UK. n Ireland is at present part of the UK. Not bizarre at all.
            I think it is beside the point in this case.
            Jesse Jackson was talking about people who considered themselves British. What do you think he meant?

          • Emmet June 19, 2017 at 9:28 am #

            Still think it is bizarre. UK is shorter than the so-called shorthand ‘Britain’. Imagine the English started using N. Ireland as a shorthand for UK – surely you can see the strangeness in that. The reason I am asking is I would like to know the source of this geographic/political mistake. Britain and Ireland are two separate Kingdoms- the United Kingdom is supposed to be the Union of the 2 said Kingdoms- surely Unionists should know this if nothing else.

          • giordanobruno June 19, 2017 at 10:20 am #

            Emmet
            If you really think it bizarre well I have to take your word for that.
            We all know what is meant in such conversations so it seems a rather pedantic point to me.
            Just as people say America when they really mean the USA.
            Do you make a point of correcting all such casual terminology?
            You must be a laugh at parties!
            Anyway, you and paddy have fun with that, it doesn’t interest me and is not relevant to this topic.

          • Emmet June 19, 2017 at 10:14 pm #

            Well that is just lazy, but at least the USA is still in America, the north has never been part of Britain. I don’t want to correct it- I am asking does anyone know the origin of this bizarre idea. Still can’t work out where it comes from. I have been known to get a bit crazy at parties- however I don’t think anyone has brought up the idea that Derry is in Britain. Will let you know how many laughs I get if this topic ever comes up at a party I’m at.

  24. Eolach June 18, 2017 at 6:15 am #

    Only Unionism with their warped logic could create this conundrum of a place. It’s part of Ireland but they think it’s not , It’s not part of Britain but they think it is , it’s not a country but they think it is , It’s not ‘a province’ but they think it is , it’s not ‘Ulster’ but they think it is , it hasn’t got its own language but they think it has , it’s not 6000 years old but they think it is ……and on and on

    • paddykool June 18, 2017 at 5:36 pm #

      Yes i had this discussion before about UK Passports saying “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”…That ‘s what’s exactly on the tin. It’s a fact.Just google it and take a look.There is an absolute differentiation between the words “Great Britain” and the words “Northern Ireland”. The British want that separation intact.I pointed out that Great Britain was called “Great” to separate it from the smaller Britain( little Britanny) in days of old. I think it is apt that I refer to Northern Ireland as “Norneverland ” too, because some of the inhabitants really do have some very spaced-out ideas about reality and the nature of things, which is in keeping with the fairytale nature of the place and the absurdity of some of the belief -systems…specifically the cultists of the 6000 year old earth, for starters and the mad beliefs in ancient religions from the times of fear and superstition back in tthe Stone Age.. There is also this myth about the “acceptance” of Northern Ireland as a viable entity .That again , is a myth which is only believed by a section of the community. The other section had that myth foisted on them by force and time has proven that those that did the foisting got it completely wrong. We now have another myth being shattered with the courting of the DUP and the Tory party. Some love-in that’s turning out to be .It is very apparent now that the DUP and the unionism they represent are to soon become the unrequited , spurned lovers in the relationaship. Commentators right across the press have not minced their words .It appears that the love is not being returned in full and many have already made note of the “sheer awfullness “of the relationship and the very idea that it could ever be truly consummated by the people across the sea. Let’s just say that the DUP will never be Britain’s valentine .They will eventually have to accept the status of the unloved either at home in ireland or across the sea.

Leave a Reply