This is an exciting day for tens of thousands of Irish sports fans. In less than two hours’ time, the football will be thrown in by the referee and the All-Ireland Gaelic Football Final will begin. I don’t know the official figures, but I’d feel safe in saying that since Croke Park hosted 82,000 people in the All-Ireland Hurling Final a few weeks ago, it’ll do something similar today when Dublin meet Mayo. Add to that the hundreds of thousands of people who will tune in to watch the game on TV. I know two Belfast men who used to faithfully attend the Final in Croke Park, until the ticket price became excessive. Now, instead of going to Dublin, they go for a week to Spain and watch the game in one of the many pubs showing it. An amateur game, Gaelic football is fast and physical: when you turn over from a Gaelic match to watch a Premier League match, the latter seems slow and often tedious by comparison.
The GAA is indisputably a nationalist/republican organisation. It was founded as part of the Gaelic revival towards the end of the nineteenth century. So I can see why unionist people in the north would fight shy of it, pointing with justification to the playing of the Irish national anthem and the flying of the tricolour at the start of big games. But it doesn’t deter all unionists/Protestants. When I was a lad in Omagh, our parish team had a boy called Freddie Perkins playing in goal. He was a very bad Protestant in that he rarely if ever went to church. He was a very good goal-keeper whose personality and skill saved our asses on more than one occasion.
So here’s a suggestion (yes, Virginia, I know I said more reaching-out by nationalists/republicans to our unionist fellow-countrymen seems pointless, but hope springs eternal in the human breast). Let’s over a two-year period take a break from flying the tricolour at big games. Take a sabbatical too from singing the national anthem (anyway, I detest the way the crowd and players abandon their singing and standing to attention with the last couple of lines). And let’s see if that might persuade a significant number of Protestant/unionist people to join us as players or spectators. Who knows – it might work. If it did, it would end the sadness some of us feel that our unionist neighbours seem determined to avoid the most popular and thrilling sport in the country. If it didn’t, you might wonder why they would continue to boycott it.
Nice idea and noble sentiment but a temporary measure seems pointless. Unionists aren’t going to embrace a sport because they’ve temporarily removed nationalist trappings, knowing that they’ll be restored in two years.
If the GAA really wants to open up to all, they need to be genuine and patient. It would take at least a generation to make a difference. Current unionists are not.going to suddenly start taking an interest in new sports. But future generations might.
And it’s not just the anthem and flags that need to be addressed. The toleration of terror clubs would need to end, so too the quasi-racist ban on ‘foreign games’ from GAA property: and some.kind of symbolic naming of clubs, grounds and competitions to balance the nationalist bias of Casement, Maguire, etc. Moving away from the Roman Catholic Church links would help too.
This would take time and will. But the effort would surely be with it if the games became truly national?
You are aware that sam maguire was a cork protestant from dunmanway but then education isn’t your strongest point is it?
P.S. The rest of your post shouldn’t be dignified with an answer.
Yes, Mark, I was aware of who Sam Maguire was. Mind you, I’m wondering why I’m bothering to dignify your comment with an answer, but it so happens I want to add a postscript. I’m very struck by the strength of feeling against my two-year suggestion. Like you, I think it’s probably time (as I’ve said before) that republicanism pushed back some. But I have a suspicion that standing for the anthem, maybe singing it, looking at the flag – makes a lot of people feel they’ve now done their bit for Ireland. Nothing is changed at the end of all that, except you maybe feel a bit more cheerful. I’d like to see (don’t ask me how) more concrete results coming from such strong nationalist/republican feeling. I sometimes think sport is used as a safe outlet so that nothing really changes. Now. That’s me. I still think you’re slightly over-estimating the worth of your opinion, Mark. And yes, I do know one or two things about education. Part of which is, of course, civility. But maybe you were off sick that day.
Jude, I’ve a suspicion that Mark wasn’t referring to your post but that of MT’s.
Your suspicions are completely founded, CM. Tá bron orm…
I think Mark was replying to MT’s comment Jude, not your article which made a reasonable argument but which on this occasion I don’t agree with on a number of grounds.
Grma for that, Ryan. My apologies to you and Mark for putting my bake where it didn’t belong
“P.S. The rest of your post shouldn’t be dignified with an answer”
I wouldn’t be surprised if MT is one of those guys who sit in Twaddell Camp caravan, eating pot noodles and drinking buckfast…..that comment really did expose his bigotry and sectarianism, which I always knew lurked behind the scenes anyway.
Susan McKay (yes, Robert, I like her book) interviewed some of those at Camp Twaddell in 2014. She was on the Sunday Politics show on BBC1 and she spoke about her experience. She said she found those at Camp Twaddell to be “quite pathetic, really”. She said all she heard was a combination of “No Surrender” and “SF/IRA Murderers”…
British Comedian Russell Brand was also in Belfast around that time. Brand is very interested in social justice and opposing inequality, he fought very hard against the tory cuts in Britain. Brand took time away from his stand up shows in Belfast to call into the “Human rights camp” at Twaddell when he heard about it. Apparently he stayed for no more than 10 minutes and left without comment and refused to be interviewed. He has never made any mention of it since nor did he voice any support for it, even though he has voiced support for so many other causes…..
When Loyalists first started protesting and attempting to get their return parade, while on a platform some of the prominent members of the protest (I think Winkie Irvine was there) and the crowd below starting singing the anti-apartheid song “Something inside so Strong” by Labi Siffre. They even put the video of this up on youtube. When singer Labi Siffre was alerted to this on twitter, he made it clear he didn’t want Loyalists to be using his song and would take Legal Action if they continued to do so…….Labi had no issue with Republicans (like Gerry Adams singing it) using it in the 1990’s. I think Labi knew who Loyalists were and the fact they SUPPORTED the apartheid regime in South Africa……whereas Republicans actively opposed it and Gerry Adams even carried Mandela’s coffin at his funeral. I think it was Chris Donnelly who said Loyalists using Labi’s song was an expression of “false victimhood”.
Susan McKay (yes, Robert, I like her book) interviewed some of those at Camp Twaddell in 2014. She was on the Sunday Politics show on BBC1 and she spoke about her experience. She said she found those at Camp Twaddell to be “quite pathetic, really”. She said all she heard was a combination of “No Surrender” and “SF/IRA Murderers”…
I will lend you £10 so you can buy yourself a new book.
“I will lend you £10 so you can buy yourself a new book”
£10?? Your very generous Robert.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if MT is one of those guys who sit in Twaddell Camp caravan, eating pot noodles and drinking buckfast….”
That’s strange. Why?
“.that comment really did expose his bigotry and sectarianism, which I always knew lurked behind the scenes anyway.”
What comment? I don’t have bigotry or sectarianism to oppose. Unlike you, I’m opposed to both.
“You are aware that sam maguire was a cork protestant from dunmanway but then education isn’t your strongest point is it?”
Yes, of course. So what? It’s the fact that he was an IRB man that is relevant.
“P.S. The rest of your post shouldn’t be dignified with an answer.”
Why not?
It’s not a nice idea. Protestants would suffer the ire and fury from die hard Republicans for changing something they never asked to be changed in the first place.
“It’s not a nice idea. Protestants would suffer the ire and fury from die hard Republicans for changing something they never asked to be changed in the first place.:
Eh?
Jude, why has there always been this fascination of trying to incorporate unionists / Protestants into the GAA? What about those Nationalists and Catholics who don’t play?
Protestants and Unionists have never been forbidden from playing GAA – many choose not to engage with the organisation / games for a variety of reasons and on the other hand some do engage and play – I managed a team a number of years ago and Protestants played on it – it wasn’t even an issue. One player actually played in an Orange Flute Band and again this wasn’t an issue. These players made no bones of the flag, anthem or history of the GAA – they just wanted to play sport.
Any rules that forbade members of the armed forces and RUC playing have been long removed (2001, Rule 21) as a conciliatory gesture. I feel the GAA have made very progressive moves already – the same cannot be said about other “cultural” organisations. What difference will ditching the national anthem and flying of Irish tricolour make? Is this the barrier that prevents mass participation of Unionists / Protestants? Or is this a case of trying to sanitise the GAA to suit the Unionist / Protestant perspective? It’s an Irish national sport and both the anthem and flag represent this. The GAA was formed as part of the de-anglicisation process and cultural revival – to this day the GAA forms a massive part of the Irish cultural identity. At its heart is Irishness – if people don’t support or accept this – that’s up to them. To start sanitising the GAA is to refuse to accept its roots and history – what next – Should stadium names change? Should the Sam Maguire cup change? Should we be embarrassed of the history of the GAA? For some Unionists and Protestants – they would never play or support GAA regardless of what conciliatory approaches were made.
“It’s an Irish national sport and both the anthem and flag represent this.”
That doesn’t make sense. How do the Southern anthem and flag represent all Ireland?
“The GAA was formed as part of the de-anglicisation process and cultural revival – to this day the GAA forms a massive part of the Irish cultural identity. At its heart is Irishness – if people don’t support or accept this – that’s up to them. ”
Using all-Ireland symbols doesn’t mean removing Irishness from the heart if the organisation. Surely it would enhance Irishness?
“That doesn’t make sense. How do the Southern anthem and flag represent all Ireland?”
It obviously wouldnt make sense to you, MT, but would to those of us who define the flag and anthem as that of Ireland, not solely the South as you refer too. Remember, MT your right to define yourself as British is the same right to me defining myself Irish and all that comes with being Irish. But then again, that’s your ignorance in failing to understand that.
“Using all-Ireland symbols doesn’t mean removing Irishness from the heart if the organisation. Surely it would enhance Irishness?”
“The heart if the organisation” – that dosent make sense, MT, but I get your general point. How would it enhance Irishness, MT?
“It obviously wouldnt make sense to you, MT, but would to those of us who define the flag and anthem as that of Ireland, not solely the South as you refer too.”
That’s the whole point. They’re not the ‘flag and anthem of Ireland’ and to treat them as though they were is to make a republican statement.
“Remember, MT your right to define yourself as British is the same right to me defining myself Irish and all that comes with being Irish. But then again, that’s your ignorance in failing to understand that.”
Ironically it seems that it’s you who’s ignorant. Our right to define as we wish has nothing to do with the issue under discussion. We’re discussing how the GAA could become inclusive, and moving away from republicanism is the key.
“Using all-Ireland symbols doesn’t mean removing Irishness from the heart if the organisation. Surely it would enhance Irishness?” ““The heart if the organisation” – that dosent make sense, MT, but I get your general point. How would it enhance Irishness, MT?:
By embracing all Irish people and not just Irish nationalists. Surely that is obvious.
“For some Unionists and Protestants – they would never play or support GAA regardless of what conciliatory approaches were made”
100% Correct ComradeMagee. Some Nationalists/Republicans are on this hopeless mission of trying to win over a large section of Unionism. That would make sense if Unionist politicians and the Orange Order didn’t exist but they do and they are very hostile to Irishness (yet they live in a part of Ireland….) and unfortunately not many Unionists have the brains of Aristotle or St Francis of Assisi, the majority of Unionists will listen first to the tribal drumbeat from political Unionism before any argument of reason, like the genuine possibility of nationalists wanting to engage and reconcile with them for a better future for all. Unionist voting patterns repeatedly prove this.
So no matter what Nationalists do, ditch the Irish flag, ditch the Irish anthem (a grave insult to those who died for it, btw), etc it will never win over Unionists. All it will do is allow certain Unionists to take advantage of nationalists genuine outreach efforts and exploit it for their own sectarian agenda, like Tom Elliot demanding all flags be removed from GAA grounds or Nelson McCausland demanding GAA grounds be renamed. Remember, Tom/Nelson are the same people who are fully behind sectarian Orange/Loyalist bands demands to march by Catholic homes/areas…..Tom only represents a minority in Fermanagh and he made that clear in his speech when he won.
The reality is there is just a powerful extremist sect within Unionism that doesn’t want to move on, who cant be reasoned with and who consider compromise as a surrender. Many of them don’t want peace, what they want is the past to come back. I know I said that many times before but its the truth.
30 on mayo at 100/30 dont watch football,more of a financial supporter.
oh,is the voters two first ministers attending.
through my childhood in the 50’s, we listened to the All Ireland on the wireless. It raised our sprits to hear the national anthem in our little boreen. We knew that out there was another Ireland which we were excluded from but identified with. The national anthem played a part in gladdening our hearts and minds. Do not take that from us in order to again appease Unionists. Don’t many of them believe that the GAA is a sectarian organisation, political rather than cultural.
All in the same year Antrim win SAM! Fanciful on both but a lovely idea
Well, Jude, those are reasonable suggestions, but your conclusion doesn’t necessarily follow:
“If it didn’t, you might wonder why they would continue to boycott it.”
Perhaps, just perhaps there is more the Nationalist Republican culture that a flag and an anthem. Indeed I suspect there is and that’s great.
Maybe people just prefer, motorsport, or football (of the soccer variety), perhaps they prefer drinking coffee, or just whatever – no harm in any of that, and nothing sectarian either.
Maybe our communities are just different, and maybe we don’t have to do the same things to get along, and maybe I don’t have to watch ‘your’ sport, or visit ‘your’ clubs, or have ‘your’ national aspirations to be Irish, and maybe me having my own interests in sport, culture and national identity is OK, and maybe it doesn’t make be sectarian, and maybe not going to a GAA match is just not going rather than a boycott.
And maybe you just like Gaelic Games and that’s great too, and maybe the fact that you don’t visit my local cricket club – no flags, no anthems – doesn’t mean a Nationalist boycott, and maybe not knowing or even caring about the game doesn’t mean that people have to be caught out, stumped or bowled over.
Honestly Gaelic Games are great, they’re just not my thing. So, no need to be sad, we’re just different, that’s all.
A ten-point manifesto for a GAA inclusive of all Irish people:
1. Outlaw terror glorification. Expel any club engaging in or hosting terror glorification events. Any club named in honour of a terrorist or sponsoring a competitor in honour of terrorists to be expelled.
2. Introduce all-Ireland anthem and flag to replace the use of the Southern anthem and flag.
3. Repeal the ban on ‘foreign sports’ using GAA property.
4. Reorganise on secular lines: no longer to be organised based on Roman Catholic parishes.
5. Incentivise clubs named in honour of nationalist/republican heroes to rename themselves. Monetary prizes for those who step up. Even greater incentives for those willing to rename in honour of Irish unionist heroes.
6. Rename the Sam Maguire Cup in honour of a non-politically divisive Irish hero.
7. An outreach campaign to Protestant and unionist communities, Protestant churches, non-RC schools etc.
8. Positive discrimination for those from a unionist traditional on to committees, councils etc: all new vacancies to be filled on a 50-50 basis.
9. An annual day of reconciliation, where the hurt done to the GAA (Bloody Sunday, requisition of grounds) is acknowledged, and also the hurt caused by the GAA by historical bans and failure to confront and oppose pro-terror sentiment is similarly acknowledged.
10. A move away from Sunday play, encouraging matches on other days.
1-9 not worth wasting time commenting on.
Point 10. Why should games be encouraged on other days apart from Sunday’s? Anyhow, Invalid point as Games happen on other days apart from Sunday’s anyhow.
Reading that Comrade Magee would prove why Unionists are worried about what would happen if there was a united Ireland after all MT made some very reasonable points.
What’s reasonable about MT’s points, Robert? And reasonable to whom, may I add?
Why are you trying to assimilate views on the GAA to a United Ireland? Where is the connection and why are you making such a connection? Surely, regardless with whatever Nationalists did, it would never be enough for some Unionists …
I assume, from your viewpoint, that the GAA must alter to the tune of Unionism to suit a Unionist agenda? As a lifelong GAA member I hold dear the GAA’s cultural and historical links. Sanitising the history and culture of the organisation would in my eyes be wrong – so much for the acceptance of the “other” culture.
In contrast – Should the OO change their age old oaths about banning Catholics et al from their organisation? Should Union Flags be banned on the 12th? Should the OO distance themselves from Brian Robinson and others whom were involved in alleged terror? What about Edward Carson, the “gunrunner” – should his statue at Stormont be removed? Should the IFA ban “God Save the Queen” at Northern Ireland games? The difference is, the above is why Nationalists refuse to accept the status quo in the North, of a state that refused to accept their existence from the beginning – where’s the convincing from Unionists to embrace “Northern Ireland?” Be interesting to hear your views on these points to see if they are reasonable?
“What’s reasonable about MT’s points, Robert?”
What’s unreasonable about them?
“Reading that Comrade Magee would prove why Unionists are worried about what would happen if there was a united Ireland after all MT made some very reasonable points”
Why, what would happen after Irish Unity Robert? What happened to southern Unionists when the South went independent? There was no discrimination…..Protestants were still the majority of the upper classes in the South decades after partition……many Protestants played a role in the running of the state, the very first Irish President was Protestant…..
Indeed an old Protestant woman from the South once said that all the Unionist scaremongering (especially from the likes of Paisley, who said “Genocide” was committed against Protestants in the South) about the South was “utter nonsense”. She even said some of her relatives who moved up North lied and pretended life in the South was bad for protestants because that’s what Unionists in the north wanted to hear.
Robert, isn’t it the truth that the reason Unionists fear Irish Unity is due to what they see as the loss of their own dominance (which is lost forever anyway, even in the North since 1972) and they fear Catholics treating Protestants how Protestants treated Catholics? Your basically judging Irish people, North and South, by your own standards. You think because your community oppressed and discriminated then other communities must want to do the same, especially for revenge. That says more about the wrongs Unionism has committed than any myth of upcoming oppression against Unionism.
I’m no psychologist but I’ve studied a lot of it at college. It seems Unionism WANTS to be in an all or nothing position. No compromise. Hence the perception amongst most Unionists of constantly “losing out” when it comes to agreements but in reality its simply compromise. Give and take from both sides. In short: fairness…..
Indeed an old Protestant woman from the South once said that all the Unionist scaremongering (especially from the likes of Paisley, who said “Genocide” was committed against Protestants in the South) about the South was “utter nonsense”. She even said some of her relatives who moved up North lied and pretended life in the South was bad for protestants because that’s what Unionists in the north wanted to hear.
Most Protestants kept quite because they were scared of what would happen to them if they complained.
many Protestants played a role in the running of the state, the very first Irish President was Protestant…..
He was an Irish republican thats why 97 percent of Protestants were unionists…
I’m no psychologist but I’ve studied a lot of it at college.
We will have to take your word on that i would prefer to judge you on what you have wrote which isnt very flattering at best…
No Ulster Unionism did the right thing fighting against joining a state that was completely controlled by the Catholic church thankfully that has changed now.
“1-9 not worth wasting time commenting on.”
Why bit?
“Point 10. Why should games be encouraged on other days apart from Sunday’s?”
Rather obviously so as to encourage participation from those Protestants uncomfortable with Sunday sport.
“Anyhow, Invalid point as Games happen on other days apart from Sunday’s anyhow.”
Sure, but only a small minority of them?
“Rather obviously so as to encourage participation from those Protestants uncomfortable with Sunday sport.” So, you claim to want games organised along secular lines but also want to change the games to suit the Protestant churche goers and religious beliefs based around the Sabbath? Are you for real? Contradiction?
“Sure, but only a small minority of them?” Is it a minority or is this a guess? If we are looking at numbers, I reckon more games would take place on week days during the GAA season – most school games take place during week days … many juvenile club games take place on Saturdays. Many senior fixtures takes place during week nights. So your point is totally invalid – matches take place on other days.
“So, you claim to want games organised along secular lines but also want to change the games to suit the Protestant churche goers and religious beliefs based around the Sabbath? Are you for real? Contradiction?”
You’ve missed the point. The point was to open the sport up more to Protestants, many of whom are uncomfortable with Sunday sport.
“Is it a minority or is this a guess? If we are looking at numbers, I reckon more games would take place on week days during the GAA season – most school games take place during week days … many juvenile club games take place on Saturdays. Many senior fixtures takes place during week nights. So your point is totally invalid – matches take place on other days.”
Fair enough. The big county games don’t, though.
“You’ve missed the point. The point was to open the sport up more to Protestants, many of whom are uncomfortable with Sunday sport.”
No I haven’t missed the point – you have clearly contradicted your point. Your calling for the games to be organised along secular lines yet recommend they be in line with Protestant religious views on the sabbath – explain how that is along secular lines?
Out of interest, how many Protestants are uncomfortable with Sunday Sport? What are you basing your “many” assertion on?
“Fair enough. The big county games don’t, though.”
And what? So the “wee” games don’t count? What constitutes a “big”
County game and what is the relevance of its size / importance to this debate?
Many “big” county games take place on Saturday’s – reference the All Ireland qualifiers that take place each year. The Dr McKenna Cup played each year takes place on week nights under flood lights. Are these not “big” games?
Your really clutching at straws here, MT. Your initial point about encouraging games on days other than Sunday illustrates your lack of knowledge on the association – perhaps research these points before making generalised and ill informed assertions.
“No I haven’t missed the point – you have clearly contradicted your point. Your calling for the games to be organised along secular lines yet recommend they be in line with Protestant religious views on the sabbath – explain how that is along secular lines?”
I’m not sure how playing on a Saturday isn’t secular.
“Out of interest, how many Protestants are uncomfortable with Sunday Sport? What are you basing your “many” assertion on?”
I don’t know. I’d guess all those who are members of fundamentalist churches would definitely be uncomfortable with it. That would be tens of thousands at least. Plus a minority of those belonging to mainstream denominations.
“And what? So the “wee” games don’t count? What constitutes a “big”
County game and what is the relevance of its size / importance to this debate?”
By definition fewer people will be interested in ‘wee’ games than big games and less interested in watching them. ‘Big’ county games would be the Ulster or all-Ireland championship.
“Many “big” county games take place on Saturday’s – reference the All Ireland qualifiers that take place each year. The Dr McKenna Cup played each year takes place on week nights under flood lights. Are these not “big” games?”
The McKenna Cup isn’t ‘big’.
“Your really clutching at straws here, MT. Your initial point about encouraging games on days other than Sunday illustrates your lack of knowledge on the association – perhaps research these points before making generalised and ill informed assertions.”
It remains the case, I’m afraid, that Sunday is the big day for GAA.
You know, the more I read articles like this one, the more I realise that this is one island but (mostly) two peoples.
We’re different, and that’s that. Not necessarily so different that we can’t get along, but different.
There is an Irish Nationalism and a British Nationalism (and living in such close proximity to Britain and sharing a language that is inevitable, and there’s nothing wrong with it.)
Our sports are different. Our Christianity/s are different.
Our local and social customs are different.
Our traditional musical genres are different.
We have different national literature and myths.
Different histories.
Different loyalties.
Different aspirations.
And perhaps what all that tells us is that there are going to be no winners. Perhaps what this tells us is that we need time rather than competition, and respect and appreciation of one another rather than efforts to make us all the same.
And perhaps the ‘United Ireland’ we need is one which celebrates these differences rather than one in which the CNR community is synonymous with ‘Ireland’.
We’re different. And maybe there is more hope of unity in affirming the differences.
I’ll put it this way, Jude, for as long as you feel sad that I don’t watch Gaelic games or identify with any other aspect of Gaelic culture, I will always think of myself as ‘British’ – accept me for what I am, however, and I’ll learn to say ‘Irish’ as well.
I agree completely PF.
We should also realise that there is nothing unusual about diffrent “tribes” living in the one country without resorting to tearing lumps out off each other.
The USA has practically every culture in the world living there and they get along largely ok.
Ask someone from southern France and they’ll explain the cultural (Basque) differences between them and the Northerners.
A Milanese Italian would probably point out huge differences between his culture and a Sicilians.
India has countless tribes with huge variations in language, food, cultural etc.
Differences in culture does not mean conflict or the need to assimilate another’s culture just so a country can function. The conflict in this little corner of the world wasn’t enevitable it was one of our own making.
Differences in culture doesn’t mean enevitable division in housing, education, sport or political outlook. That again is of our own making.
Now if the GAA wants to abandon its political agenda in order to solely promote Gaelic culture then that’s fine. If it wants to keep the political agenda that’s fine also. I feel no need to try and force any organisation be it the GAA or the Orange Order to change just to accommodate anyone. They are the only ones responsible for there own actions.
Differences between cultures shouldn’t lead to division.
As long as we can live, work and love together equally people can do whatever they want in my opinion.
How many gestures from the Republican side would it take for Ulster rugby to remove the British war memorial from the entrance to Ravenhill?
“How many gestures from the Republican side would it take for Ulster rugby to remove the British war memorial from the entrance to Ravenhill?”
Why would Ulster Rugby remove a war memorial, gestures or no gestures?
I, for one Unionist, am not asking for any ‘gestures’; neither would I expect the memorial to be removed from Ravenhill.
I have no problem with the GAA doing what the GAA do; if I want to watch I’ll go along on that basis, and respect the flag and anthem. If I don’t want to go, I won’t go. Neither, if you don’t want to watch Ulster play rugby, or if the memorial offends you, don’t go.
It’s called being grown up.
I think too much focus on unionists is actually part of the problem. Have nationalists done anything to be ashamed of ? How many times are we going to say it ! Republicans embrace all creeds. We don’t need to ask permission from unionists for anything. Some of the sentiment expressed by some nationalists is actually condescending to unionists. Does our flag not say enough ? How can any intelligent person actually put forward an argument that, what we have now, after twenty years, is acceptable and the best we can do ? What a docile uninspired people we are. So much for all our great intellectual advancement in the last one hundred years ! How can anyone actually say that with a straight face ?
“I think too much focus on unionists is actually part of the problem. Have nationalists done anything to be ashamed of ? How many times are we going to say it ! Republicans embrace all creeds. We don’t need to ask permission from unionists for anything. Some of the sentiment expressed by some nationalists is actually condescending to unionists. Does our flag not say enough ? ”
An interesting admission that the GAA is republican.
Maybe the GAA needs a debate. Does it wish to stay republican and exclude unionists; or ditch the politics and embrace all Irish people?
Could you imagine asking Palestinians to remove any symbolism of their country just in the hope of accommodating and appeasing the Zionist settler community, allthewhile, all around them there is overwhelming examples of the Zionist tradition everywhere they go? The oppressor is a master at getting the peasants to bend to their bidding.
“allthewhile, all around them there is overwhelming examples of the Zionist tradition everywhere they go?”
Exactly wolf tone. Its not only morally wrong but it wont even work. It wont win over any Unionists. All it will do is cause many Nationalists to be outraged and many sectarian Unionists to gloat and exploit it because some have made clear they want the removal of Irish symbolism, like the Irish language in public, Irish flags at St Patricks Day Parades, etc. Like a spoilt child making demands, some nationalists think giving in to the child will make things better. While in reality all the kid needs a clip round the ear lol
The sad thing is Ryan the terrorist group did a lot worse than clip people around the ear,perhaps thats why many unionists have a loathing of Republicanism?
“But it doesn’t deter all unionists/Protestants.”
Indeed it doesn’t. Many Unionists/Protestants in the distant and more recent past played Gaelic football. I think the PSNI has its own Gaelic football team, as we know the majority in the police are Protestant, which is unusual given protestants aren’t the majority anymore (48% of population at last census) and might even now be the minority (given this year Catholics became a majority of the full time workforce). Prominent Unionist Edward Carson apparently played Gaelic football (or Hurling) and spoke the Irish language. Not many people know that LVF Leader Billy Wright even played Gaelic football for a time, I’m guessing that was before he became a sectarian serial killer. And a lot of people will be surprised to learn that nutty Willie Frazer use to play Gaelic football too. Willie even went to a Catholic school and says he was “well treated” there, given he was one of the few Protestants.
“Let’s over a two-year period take a break from flying the tricolour at big games”
I think that’s the wrong way of going about trying to attract Unionists/protestants Jude. I see your logic though: you might reason that Unionists/protestants would see the Tricolour as a sectarian symbol, the same way Catholics view the Union flag/Ulster Banner, and hence put them off Gaelic football. But that sounds similar to the “Don’t mention Irish Unity so we don’t offend Unionists!” logic of some Nationalist politicians. How can you ever attract some Unionists to the idea of Irish Unity if you fear even mentioning it? The same goes for Gaelic football. Gaelic football is an ancient IRISH game, its an IRISH institution. By rejecting the Irish flag/anthem just so a few unionists might, MIGHT, attend a game then your basically dishonouring the fabric of Gaelic football.
Of course, what next? renaming GAA grounds to please Unionism? remove all flags from GAA grounds? (As UUP MP Tom Elliot once demanded in Fermanagh…..then made clear he would never attend a GAA game no matter what). Its just the wrong way to go about attracting different audiences. Well most people, like tourists, wouldn’t care about flags/anthems. We’re really only talking about one specific audience here.
Its also important to remember that the GAA is demonized by some Unionists. DUP Sammy Wilson once said the GAA was “the sporting wing of the IRA”. I have seen some Unionists saying if any Protestant plays Gaelic football then they are “playing to the IRA agenda and eroding Britishness”. All that sort of thing discourages Protestants/Unionists from attending games or even calling themselves Irish.
Some Unionists might round on me and use my argument against me in reference to the Northern Ireland soccer team. They might say then if its wrong to do away with the Irish flag/anthem at the GAA then its wrong to do away with the Union flag/British anthem at Windsor Park when trying to attract Catholics. Ahh but there’s a big difference. The NI soccer team is a national football team, its meant to represent EVERYONE in the northern state. The Union flag/Anthem certainly does not represent everyone and there’s an argument it now represents just a minority of people given that a majority in the north (including nearly a majority of protestants) favour one All Ireland soccer team. Windsor Park is meant to be a national stadium, therefore it should welcoming to everyone but naming it after a British Royal (like countless other things….) is marking it out for the use of only one community and making it unwelcome to Catholics, which I’m sure was the intention by whoever named it.
“Many Unionists/Protestants in the distant and more recent past played Gaelic football.”
Really? How many? What proportion of total players?
“I think the PSNI has its own Gaelic football team, as we know the majority in the police are Protestant”
But those in the Gaelic team will be RC.
“Prominent Unionist Edward Carson apparently played Gaelic football (or Hurling) and spoke the Irish language.”
He played neither. He played ‘hurley’ which was more like hockey than hurling.
“Not many people know that LVF Leader Billy Wright even played Gaelic football for a time, I’m guessing that was before he became a sectarian serial killer.”
As a child he played it informally. He was never A GAA .
“Unionists/protestants would see tGaelic football is an ancient IRISH game, its an IRISH institution.”
It’s not. It was only invented in 1885.
“By rejecting the Irish flag/anthem just so a few unionists might, MIGHT, attend a game then your basically dishonouring the fabric of Gaelic football.”
That doesn’t make any sense. What has the southern flag and anthem got to do with a particular code of football, never mind its ‘fabric’?
“Of course, what next? renaming GAA grounds to please Unionism? remove all flags from GAA grounds? (As UUP MP Tom Elliot once demanded in Fermanagh…..then made clear he would never attend a GAA game no matter what). Its just the wrong way to go about attracting different audiences. Well most people, like tourists, wouldn’t care about flags/anthems. We’re really only talking about one specific audience here.”
So what’s the right way to attract Unionists?
” the Union flag/British anthem at Windsor Park when trying to attract Catholics.”
The Union Flag isn’t flown at Windsor.Park.
“Ahh but there’s a big difference. The NI soccer team is a national football team, its meant to represent EVERYONE in the northern state.”
So you’re saying the GAA isn’t meant to represent everyone in Ireland?
.
“Windsor Park is meant to be a national stadium, therefore it should welcoming to everyone but naming it after a British Royal (like countless other things….) is marking it out for the use of only one community and making it unwelcome to Catholics, which I’m sure was the intention by whoever named it.”
But it’s not named after a British Royal, or any other kind of Royal.
‘So what’s the right way to attract Unionists?’
In all likelihood money.
too true Wolfe – loyal to the half-crown, rather than the crown!!!
See what’s happening already? Unionists didn’t ask for any GAA changes to attract them, but sectarianism directed towards them starts dripping out anyway.
Always good to see the, Windsor Park named after a Royal myth busted!
“Really? How many? What proportion of total players?”
The GAA isnt the Orange Order MT, they don’t care about what religion a person is nor do they keep records of peoples faith……
“But those in the Gaelic team will be RC”
How would you know? Did you go round the PSNI GAA team asking each member their religion? You would’ve fitted in very well in 1960’s Stormont MT, there would’ve definitely have been a job for ya up there….
“It’s not. It was only invented in 1885”
Like on so many topics MT, I think you need to educate yourself…..
“That doesn’t make any sense. What has the southern flag and anthem got to do with a particular code of football, never mind its ‘fabric’?”
The “southern flag” is the Irish flag and the “southern” anthem is the Irish anthem. Gaelic football and Hurling is an Irish sport and is an important part of Irish culture, hence why the IRISH flag is flown and the IRISH anthem is played at GAA games…..
“So what’s the right way to attract Unionists?”
There is no “right way” to attract Unionists MT. If they want to watch a GAA game they can, if they don’t then that’s their decision. Promoting GAA sports worldwide (where there’s GAA clubs in numerous countries, even as far as China) is a far more important agenda in my opinion than trying to attract Unionists who are poisoned against the GAA and more likely wont go to games anyway despite an outreach.
“The Union Flag isn’t flown at Windsor.Park”
Really? Me and countless others must have been dreaming when crowds in the stands were waving Union flags at NI soccer games….
“So you’re saying the GAA isn’t meant to represent everyone in Ireland?”
Of course it isn’t. It’s a devoutly nationalist institution and has made that clear repeatedly throughout history lol That’s like saying the Orange Order is meant to represent everyone. Do keep up MT….
“But it’s not named after a British Royal, or any other kind of Royal”
Really? That’s certainly how its perceived. Perception is important and most regard it is being named after the British Royal family, aka the Windsors. There is countless other things named after British Royals by Unionism and the agenda was to exclude and mark out territory. Given Windsor Park is a national stadium, it should be renamed with input by all communities so it is more welcoming to all, not just one community.
“The GAA isnt the Orange Order MT, they don’t care about what religion a person is nor do they keep records of peoples faith……”
We both know the answer is close to 0%.
“How would you know?”
Rather obviously because Protestants don’t play GAA so it’s unlikely that anything but a tiny minority, if any, on the PSNI team are Protestant.
“Like on so many topics MT, I think you need to educate yourself…..”
I’m afraid it is you who needs to educate yourself. Try reading any of the recent works of Irish sport history or of Gaelic football history.
“The “southern flag” is the Irish flag and the “southern” anthem is the Irish anthem.”
Neither is “the” Irish flag or anthem. There are many Irish flags and anthems. They are the national.flag and anthem.of Southern Ireland.
“Gaelic football and Hurling is an Irish sport and is an important part of Irish culture, hence why the IRISH flag is flown and the IRISH anthem is played at GAA games…..”
Both sports relate to all of Ireland so it doesn’t make sense to use only southern symbols.
“There is no “right way” to attract Unionists MT. If they want to watch a GAA game they can, if they don’t then that’s their decision.”
That’s obvious. But the question is how do you attract them to be interested. Your suggestion of doing nothing won’t work. The answer is to ditch the politics and adopt my suggested ten-point manifesto.
“Promoting GAA sports worldwide (where there’s GAA clubs in numerous countries, even as far as China) is a far more important agenda in my opinion than trying to attract Unionists who are poisoned against the GAA and more likely wont go to games anyway despite an outreach.”
That doesn’t surprise me in the least, given the very negative and poisoned mindset that you articulate here.
“The Union Flag isn’t flown at Windsor.Park”
“Really?”
Yes.
“Me and countless others must have been dreaming when crowds in the stands were waving Union flags at NI soccer games….”
Fans waving a flag in the stands isn’t the flag being flown by the IFA .
“So you’re saying the GAA isn’t meant to represent everyone in Ireland?”
“Of course it isn’t. It’s a devoutly nationalist institution and has made that clear repeatedly throughout history lol That’s like saying the Orange Order is meant to represent everyone. Do keep up MT….”
I’m glad we agree and it’s noteworthy that you draw the comparison with the Orange Order. Others, however, appear to argue that the GAA is for all of Ireland and it purports itself to be the ‘national sport’. They can’t have it both ways.
“But it’s not named after a British Royal, or any other kind of Royal”
“Really?:
Yes.
“That’s certainly how its perceived.”
Those who ‘perceive’ such nonsense have a false perception. Ignorance abounds.
“Perception is important and most regard it is being named after the British Royal family, aka the Windsors.”
They do? How do you know? Maybe most of the narrow circle of people whom you mix with have such a false perception but that says more about you than it does football.
“There is countless other things named after British Royals by Unionism and the agenda was to exclude and mark out territory.”
That’s untrue and “Unionism” didn’t name Windsor Park.
“Given Windsor Park is a national stadium, it should be renamed with input by all communities so it is more welcoming to all, not just one community.”
Why? What’s wrong with the existing name?
When the Down captain, Esteemed Blogmeister, was presented with the Sam Maguire Cup in the 1994 he was flanked by two Presidents, one of ‘Ireland’ (actually the Free Southern Stateen) and the other of the GAA which is a 32 county organisation, with a, erm, global outreach of sorts. (Diaspora times require Diaspora remedies).
The first President was Mary Robinson, the second President was Jack Boothman.
So far, so (fairly) straightforward. With possibly a little tincture of complexity in the mix.
Sam Maguire, after whom the eponymous (still a daaarlin word, Joxer) cup was named, was a Corkman, despite the Fermanagh surname. A member of the Church of Ireland he joined the British Civil Service in London before graduating to become chief intelligence officer on Thameside, for his fellow British Civil Servant, Michael Collins, who was a R.C..
After the assassination of Sir Henry Wilson in 1922 Scotland Yard declared that Sam M was a ‘person of interest’. Which caused S. Maguire to skedaddle back to Dublin, in double jig time. There he joined the new Irish Civil Service from which he was soon dismissed, though not on religious grounds. Rather for political reasons. (Perhaps he objected to the compulsory Earl Grey tea at 11 and at 4).
Jack Boothman, the man who presented the Sam Maguire Cup to the footballing captain from the Occupied Six Counties, was a member of the same religious persuasion as SM: Church of Ireland.
One does not recall much – if any – of a hubbub being made in Dubland at the time. Certainly, no preening from the Green Suits in that Stadium of Ill-repute, being named in honour of a RC Archbishop.
Then, of course there was the other President. A RC herself, she went on to diss the RC religion by snubbing the dress protocol in the Vatican . (Hail ! the World leader, gasped an awestruck Unionist Times).
She wasn’t finished there: hot on the highheels of that snub she went into double-snub mode soon after by jumping ship from Aras an Uachtarain itself before her term of office was up. For which unilateral declaration of Premature Self-ejaculation no terms or conditions seemingly applied. Certainly, as far as full pension rights were concerned. Otherwise, a faily umbraged Unionist Times would have been on her case, and pronto.
This pre-emptive leave-taking might well be down to her never ever looking particularly comfortable in the Presidential Seat in Croke Park: hence the self-imposed double yellow card which ensured an Early Shower. But that of course in all in the realm of political speculation.
And is based solely on the observation that during those times when the play was at its most competitive and the cameras’ attention was focused on the field of play, the last tune a neutral observer of the Presidential physiog would associate with same would be:
-That Happy Feeling by Bert Kaempfert.
Coincidentally, when the vote was taken to open Croke Park to competing sports, i.e, international soccer, oops, football and rugby, perhaps the most vocal opponent of the move was a certain County Wicklow veterinary surgeon, name of (gulp) Jack Boothman. The same who presented Sam.
-On the grounds It would be a disastrous mistake to cede ground to one’s sporting competitors.
The former President of the GAA was also a former student in King’s Hospital School, where rugby and cricket (and possibly falconry) were the only sports on the curriculum. It is a truth universally acknowledged that being a hard nosed pragmatist comes with the same turf as being a Prod.
Look no further than Big Jack Boothman.
Likewise, when it comes to Bans one need look no further than the gracious Bean a Ti / Hausfrau of Schloss Buckingham. She who continues to wear the crown of the UK with not the slightest hint of unease on her bluerinsed head. That would be the UK where Sectarianism is OK at the highest and the headiest level.
Which is a pity, rather: there could well be RC queens out there, chaps who play a manly game of Gaelic football or hurling either in the Six Counties or even on the Mainland itself and who, on their way to playing a Junior B club relegation game in Ruislip or New Eltham itself, may well have to pass Schloss Buckingham on the way.
And who wouldn’t half mind their husbands / better halves walking six paces dutifully behind them. Or, at the least having the chance of a a decent crack at same, going forward.
Alas.
Basically MT says I’d get along with you if you weren’t you……yer not asking much sir are you.
“Basically MT says I’d get along with you if you weren’t you……yer not asking much sir are you.”
Eh?
So more outreach …
I’m beginning to feel like Stretch Armstrong.
I agree with Jude that flying the tricolour at every match ( a rule honoured more in the breach than the obsevance) and playing the anthem at every rainswept clash of of parochial pygmies should be dispensed with. But I think dispensing with A na bhF at the All Ireland would be a step too far. Backwards.
OK, Brian. But if we keep the anthem, how about players/spectators learning to sing it and learning NOT to burst through the last line or two with raucous applause?
“I agree with Jude that flying the tricolour at every match ( a rule honoured more in the breach than the obsevance) and playing the anthem at every rainswept clash of of parochial pygmies should be dispensed with. But I think dispensing with A na bhF at the All Ireland would be a step too far. Backwards”
Why would it be a step too far? And why would it be backwards?
I’m a Presbyterian from a Unionist background : I fully accept that the G.A.A. is a Catholic/Nationalist organisation for Catholics/Nationalists. What really irritates me about the G.A.A. is the continual assertion by its officials/heid yins and others that it is non-sectarian and non-political, when all the evidence points to the contrary, indeed it is the former inherent qualities that attract people to it in the first place. I suppose in the modern era where G.A.A. clubs receive large sums of public money this assertion has to be made. However, as Catholics/Nationalists pay their rates/taxes like everybody else, there should be no objection to their sporting organisation receiving public funds. Can we just not accept that certain sporting organisations are largely played by and supported by certain groups of people, the G.A.A. overwhelmingly by Catholics/Nationalists, rugby (in the North) largely by those from a Protestant, middle class, professional background and that the only truly cross-community team game we have in the North of Ireland is poor old soccer.
Willie D – I think you’re half-right (that’s not an insult, btw…) You’re right that the GAA is political in the sense that it is the GAELIC Athletic Association, just as the BBC is the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation. You’re wrong to say it’s sectarian – there’s nothing in the rules or anywhere else that says ‘Only Catholics need apply’ or suchlike. As for soccer being cross-community – that’s a good laugh on a Monday morning. It’s certainly not cross-border…
“Willie D – I think you’re half-right (that’s not an insult, btw…) You’re right that the GAA is political in the sense that it is the GAELIC Athletic Association, just as the BBC is the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation. You’re wrong to say it’s sectarian – there’s nothing in the rules or anywhere else that says ‘Only Catholics need apply’ or suchlike.”
But unionists, who are disproportionately Protestant, are excluded. And sectarianism need not refer only to religion in any case.
As for soccer being cross-community – that’s a good laugh on a Monday morning.”
Why do you mock the suggestion that ‘-soccer’, played by tens of.thousands of Catholics and Protestants, is cross-community?
The GAA is not sectarian.
People from all backgrounds can and more importantly DO play the games.
There are no obstacles put in anyone’s way if they want to reach the heights in either a sporting manner or an administration manner in the GAA.
“The GAA is not sectarian.
People from all backgrounds can and more importantly DO play the games.”
What proportion of players in NI are from a unionist background?
“There are no obstacles put in anyone’s way if they want to reach the heights in either a sporting manner or an administration manner in the GAA.”
Apart from the political ethos.
The GAA don’t take stock of people’s religions, political persuasions etc.
As point already the GAA has no interest in its members religions, political persuasions.
Once again MT you have demonstrated throughout this thread and on others threads on the GAA that you are highly ignorant of the association.
Probably best to stay away from discussions concerning it and maybe go educate yourself on the topic.
“The GAA don’t take stock of people’s religions, political persuasions etc.”
Nobody said that it did.
“As point already the GAA has no interest in its members religions, political persuasions.”
No interest in attracting people.from the Ulster Protestant community, you mean.
“Once again MT you have demonstrated throughout this thread and on others threads on the GAA that you are highly ignorant of the association.”
That’s untrue because I have never demonstrated ignorance of the GAA. You repeating the charge and failing each time to provide any evidence doesn’t make it true.
“Probably best to stay away from discussions concerning it and maybe go educate yourself on the topic.”
I’m already sufficiently educated, thanks.
I think it’s best that you keep away as you appear unable or unwilling to participate in the discussion, preferring instead to restrict yourself to ad hominem comments.
I mean what I say when I use my own words.
Don’t tell me what i did or didn’t mean.
You’ve demonstrated ignorance of the GAA many times on this thread and others.
The fact that you can’t see this ignorance is, in itself, evidence of your ignorance.
More importantly you don’t want to know.
You have no interest in finding out.
You have made up your mind already about things you know little off.
True ignorance.
“I mean what I say when I use my own words.”
I’m afraid you’re burying your head in the sand if you believe anything other than a tiny number of ulster Protestants play GAA or that the GAA is keen to attract them.
“You’ve demonstrated ignorance of the GAA many times on this thread and others.
The fact that you can’t see this ignorance is, in itself, evidence of your ignorance.
More importantly you don’t want to know.
You have no interest in finding out.
You have made up your mind already about things you know little off.
True ignorance.”
You keep repeating this charge yet, despite numerous requests, you are unable to substantiate it. I’m not ignorant and you haven’t been able to demonstrate why where that I’ve shown ignorance. I suggest therefore that you stop repeating your mantra and either deal with the issues under discussion or retire from the thread. Coming here merely to make ad hominem comments is of no benefit to anyone, yourself included.
Your ignorance has been pointed out to you several times by myself and others with examples in the past.
You simply refuse to accept.
As I said you’ve made up your mind already about something you know little about.
You’re closed to learning about it.
“Your ignorance has been pointed out to you several times by myself and others with examples in the past.”
No it hasn’t and I note – yet again – that you’re unable to offer any example.
You’re clearly unwilling to engage constructively (or, in fact, to engage at all) in discussion, preferring to restrict your controbutons to personalised comments.
On that basis I will cease to respond to you, unless you decide to say anything substantial.
Myself and others have provided examples.
You choose to ignore them.
You.
And I won’t take lessons about engaging constructively from you.
“Myself and others have provided examples.
You choose to ignore them.”
Sorry for breaking my promise already, but you haven’t.
GAA is the national sports of Ireland.
At big games the national flag is flown and the national anthem is played.
GAA games are played across the globe.
America, Canada, Australia, Middle East, across Europe and beyond.
All and sundry are welcome to play it and do play it.
All colours, creeds, political persuasions, sexes and cultures can and do play the sports.
That’s pretty inclusive.
Pithily put, Michael. Maith thú! (And to think: in less than a fortnight we do it all again. One’s cup runneth over, as Perkin might say…
Well if your southern friends hadnt spit from the IFA you would have had your wish.
Yesterday I watched the All Ireland final in a very well-known and popular bar in Clontarf. It was jammed packed, mostly with Dubs but there were some green and red shirts spread around. It was all good banter between both sets of supporters, just as it usually is at the game itself. It doesn’t matter who you sit beside at the game, whether you are a Dub or a culchie, you can still have a laugh and a joke, and maybe even a pint together at half time.
I happened to bump into a few English tourists in the bar. They were enthralled by the game, the spectacle, the occasion, the skill and the commitment of the players. This is how they expressed it. It wasn’t a classic, mainly due to the conditions but it was great to watch. I have taken other tourists (American, Canadian, Swedish and English) to Croke Park for some big games and all of them enjoyed the game and the occasion, and all said that they would love to come back.
I also have a Scottish friend who has been living in Dublin for years. He is a true Dublin supporter, attends all their games, home and away and is guaranteed his All Ireland tickets because of his club membership. He claims that there is nothing like it in Scotland, not even a Celtic vs Rangers game. I’ve been to Parkhead a few times and I liked the atmosphere but it doesn’t come near a Croke Park All Ireland game.
Soccer has always been my favourite sport to play, I was quite serious about the game and played at League of Ireland level. I retired in my early 40’s only because of injury. In primary school I had a couple of teachers from the country, and they were GAA men. I played a few games for the school team but there were occasions when soccer and GAA games clashed, so I had to make the choice. I preferred soccer but the teachers always tried to get me to opt for GAA. I never played GAA football after primary school and I always regretted it.
I spent approx 20 years living abroad but since coming back to live in Dublin I regularly attend League of Ireland games, usually to see Shamrock Rovers or St Patricks. Unfortunately, the standard of League of Ireland football is not so good these days except for teams like Dundalk or Cork City. Really, it can be very hard to watch mediocre players giving away the ball so easy and bootin it up the field.
However, the team that I really enjoy watching is the Dubs. Being a Dub I’m naturally very proud of the current team. Apart from the struggle yesterday they are usually great to watch. I try to go to all their games, home or away, and the only reason why I won’t be able to see the Dubs playing is because tickets for semi-finals and finals can be so hard to get. Their games in Croke Park are always well attended with good friendly atmosphere. The away games can also be a real good day out because of the big following that they bring. I was in Newry and Kilkenny for Dubs games during the last few months and it was great to see the buzz in the towns, all friendly, lots of families and good craic. I’m sure that the restaurants, bars, shops and car parks all done good business when the Dubs came to town.
GAA games are uniquely Irish, but everybody is welcome to take part. Ask any of those foreigners playing the games in New York, Dallas, Melbourne, Dubai, Kuala Lumpur, Buenos Aires etc. The Mayo minor team had the first Pakistani in their team last year. I’m sure his family were very proud of him. I’ve been to GAA games in Dubai, the US and Australia and it’s obvious that these foreigners are taking to GAA because they enjoy the games and the atmosphere.
Where else can I go to watch a highly skilled/competitive football game and know that the Dublin players wearing our county colours are our lads. They are not just a bunch of people brought together to form a team, brought in from another city or country on a big payment, with no allegiance or loyalty to the people who follow them, and who could possibly be playing for another team against your team next season. They are our county team that truly represents us. Same with Kerry, Derry or Galway players etc and their counties. This is unique with sports on this level. What local guys play for Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea etc, or even Leinster or Munster.
My friends and family were surprised that a long time soccer player/fan like myself now prefers to go to GAA football games. I haven’t turned my back on soccer but given the choice between a Dubs game in Croke Park and the Irish soccer team playing in the Aviva Stadium I would definitely prefer to go to Croke Park. The sort of thing that disappoints me with soccer is watching those overpaid pansies rolling on the ground when another player dares to tackle them fairly for the ball. I heard that Joey Barton had tweeted about those GAA players being tough guys. He should know.
Other posters have stated that the GAA should not change anything about flag, anthem or stadium names. I agree with the idea that it really is a matter of choice. You either like the game and the occasion and you make a decision to attend or you don’t like the experience so you don’t bother to attend. Same as if I wanted to attend the FA Cup Final where they play GSTQ or an American sports where the national anthem is usually played. I either go or I don’t go.
Another unique part of the GAA finals is where the teams march around Croke Park behind the Artane Boys band, which is great entertainment and rousing for the crowd. I could be wrong but I don’t know of this march around happening in soccer, rugby, Aussie rules, NFL etc. Again it’s a truly unique GAA experience.
I enjoy the whole spectacle but if they stopped flying the flag or stopped playing the anthem I would still want to see the games. For me it’s not about the tricolour being flown or hearing the national anthem. Sure, these are part of the Irish experience that the GAA provides for anybody who wishes to come to these games but if this is what the majority of GAA fans want then let them have it. I don’t think that it would be right for the GAA to deny the huge number of fans the great occasions that they clearly enjoy. I enjoy my days at Croke Park and other venues and I would not like to see it diluted on the off chance that more Unionists/Loyalists might be enticed to take part.
Go raibh cead maith agat Nuacht – that’s a fascinating story. I think you’re right that the GAA is unique and splendid, but for that very reason it should be looking for ways to get even better. I just feel frustrated that unionists, in almost all cases, don’t avail of the game’s many delights. Anyway thanks again for that marvellous comment
Jude,
the Nationalist and Republican communities have conceded so much in recent times, I often feel it is a one way traffic. Certainly a genuine attempt to accommodate all traditions and respect for the ethos of historically different Irish Men and Women has been to the fore of Sinn Féin policies and a cornerstone of the Good Friday Agreement.
Our traditions, culture, language and in this case our national sport is something that we can all share in as part what it is to be Irish. I don’t believe our culture is in any way triumphalism, ‘fleg’ waving or sectarian. I think we all agree that we must recognise and respect all traditions and welcome those wishing to share peacefully these aspects.
That said, I for one do not want to dilute my sense of what I am. I acknowledge and will not forget the men and women of past and present generations who gave of their lives for these very things that we now enjoy and accept as the norm.
Did Pádraic Pearse foresee the erosion of the Irish soul in the ‘techno global village’ that now prevails or is it a case that he indeed has he left his name in our hearts ?
I have not garnered gold;
The fame I found hath perished;
In love I got but grief
That withered my life.
Of riches or of store
I shall not leave behind me
(Yet I deem it, O God, sufficient)
But my name in the heart of a child.
(P H PEARSE)
Maybe Protestants will continue to “boycott” it because they don’t know anything about it, they aren’t engrained into it from an early age, they don’t play it at school, they don’t watch it on TV, they don’t even understand the rules. To change all that in the space of two years simply will not happen, but then if it doesn’t, at least people can say, “See! I told you so!!!!”
Infact, if anything, this gesture will have the opposite effect, whereby more animosity will grow. Die hard, sectarian Republicans will be grumbling why their anthem and flag are not on display, and all their ire will be directed at those ungrateful prods. Like Muslims getting the blame for changing Christmas into Winterville or Merry Christmas into Happy Holidays, it was actually done by well meaning PC individuals, but sectarian tensions were raised as an unattended consequence anyway.
“GAA is the national sports of Ireland. At big games the national flag is flown and the national anthem is played.”
They play the southern anthem and fly the southern flag. That would make sense if it were the ‘national sports’ of only southern Ireland, but if they claim to be the national sports of all Ireland then they should use all-Ireland symbols.
“GAA games are played across the globe.
America, Canada, Australia, Middle East, across Europe and beyond.
All and sundry are welcome to play it and do play it.
All colours, creeds, political persuasions, sexes and cultures can and do play the sports.”
Really? How many Ulster Protestants play it?
Asked and answered several times now.
Do keep up.
Once again Michael would a Ulster Protestant feel safe going into a Kevin Lynch gaa club in Dungiven?
They would have no reason to feel unsafe, I know that for sure.
Jude, you sound like you have good connections at Kevin Lynch GAA club. Would you perhaps be able to arrange a visit to a game there for Robert and MT. You can invite me too
Why would they not be safe?
As much as you want to doubt it, Protestants can and do play GAA games right across Ireland and beyond.
The only people stopping them from playing is themselves and their ignorant assumptions of the GAA.
“As much as you want to doubt it, Protestants can and do play GAA games right across Ireland and beyond.
The only people stopping them from playing is themselves and their ignorant assumptions of the GAA.”
That’s not true. The republican ethos of the organisation excludes unionists.
Wrong. Unionists are not stopped from joining the GAA.
They stop themselves from joining.
“Wrong. Unionists are not stopped from joining the GAA.
They stop themselves from joining”
And did you ever stop to think why that may be?
Does the concept of barriers to participation mean anything to you?
Do you understand that exclusion doesn’t mean only express rules to ban people?
Try not to restrict yourself to literal interpretations of things.
If you or others in this small pocket of Ireland and indeed the world don’t want to be involved in the national sports of Ireland that’s quite ok; but look no further than yourself as to why.
As pointed out to you and others many many times the association is open to yourself and others in taking part.
If YOU choose not to, then it’s YOU that’s made that choice.
“Asked and answered several times now.”
It’s a rhetorical question, Michael.
Which has been asked and answered several times.
Calling a GAA club after a dead INLA terrorist surely to anybody would not cause any Unionist to feel comfortable and safe in that venue.
As far as I am concerned any club can call itself what it wants however if it calls itself something that the other community feels uneasy with then it surely can not be called cross community to any reasonable person.
So the Irish flag and Amhrán na bhFiann aren’t what’s holding unionists/Protestants from attending games/ playing GAA games. Just as well the GAA didn’t follow my suggestion and waste two years, then…
Jude, chuala mé túsa ar an talkback inniu agus I couldn’t help but feel that you may have inadvertently shone a light, for the benefit of free staters, on what we nordies have to put up with here. For so long we have been preached to by some of our southern brothers and sisters on how we up north ‘are as bad as each other’. Alas the sound of former GAA president Sean Kelly politely dismissing your suggestion re anthem/flag etc could in some small way show them, how much intolerance, we of an Irish persuasion have to live with in the north. It might make them think in future before they speak.