The Rev Mervyn Gibson is a man of God. We know that because he’s a Christian clergyman, which presumably means that he follows the teachings of Christ. A central and totally revolutionary tenet preached by Christ was that you should love your enemies. It’s a hard one and one that most of us find ourselves failing in time and again. But just as the guardians of the peace whom we pay to protect us should set a higher standard of doing the right thing, so too a man of the cloth should set a higher standard for himself than the rest of us – should provide a model of Christian living.
Does the Reverend Mervyn Gibson set and maintain that high standard? I have no doubt in many aspects of life he does. I’m unfamiliar with his personal background – for all that I know he may have a wife and children whom he loves dearly. Among the ranks of the Orange Order he may provide spiritual sustenance and support to brethren in need. He may contribute to charities at a level that would shame the rest of us. In these areas I have no knowledge, so I’ll assume the best until it’s proven otherwise.
However, I do know that the Reverend Mervyn is a chaplain to an organisation that, in its origins, history and ordinances, is anti-Catholic. I do know that the Orange Order, year after year down the centuries, has been the occasion of drunkenness and disorder, occasionally injury and death. It may be that the Reverend Mervyn is working very hard to change those ordinances and stated views on Catholicism (there’s nothing he can do about its origins and its history). Since I know nothing of that, I’ll assume he’s tireless in trying to persuade his fellow-brethren to change their ways and to learn to accept and even love those of a different religious persuasion.
But some days it’s harder to think of the Reverend Mervyn in a positive way than others. Last weekend, for example, he commented on the mural to Gerry Adams. Addressing a rally, he told them: “I see they’ve painted a new mural to him [Gerry Adams] on the Falls Road. Sadly, it’s not a memorial mural.”
Now who does that remind me of? Ah yes – Belfast City councillor Ruth Patterson, who famously mused on how good it would be if Castlederg republicans were removed from this life. I’m assuming Ruth is a Christian too and does all sorts of good works in other spheres. But in her views on Castlederg republicans she seems to have fallen short.
But then she’s not a clergyman – the Reverend Mervyn is. Has Mr Gibson apologised for this unChristian outburst? Explained that it just sort of slipped out? Uh-uh. No comment can be had, at least not so far, from the Reverend Mervyn. Will his comment help calm the tensions that developed with the arrest of Gerry Adams? I think we can safely say they won’t.
The Reverend Mervyn was a member of the Democratic Unionist Party’s delegation at last year’s Haass talks. That’s where they were trying to get agreement about the past, parades and flags. The SDLP and Sinn Féin were prepared to accept the Haass package. The unionist delegation, which included the Reverend Mervyn, refused to accept it. Go figger.
Jude,you say you know nothing of Mervyn’s background.In fact Mervyn has a very interesting CV.He was in fact a member of that esteemed grouping known as RUC special branch.Many members of the”branch” are still in the ranks of the PSNI and if Mervyn is in anyway typical of the brand is it any wonder that political policing still occurs.
AHH,Jude, why don’t you call a spade a spade.The orange order has more in common with the KLU KLUX CLAN than it does with any church or religion. Its steeped in the worse traditions of bigitory and hatred Ireland has ever seen.From its drunken 11th night celebrations to its racist outlook and its supporters who taunt the taigs with filth on their way to CHURCH parades.Its a festering pus filled sore that would be banned in civilised country.
You are chipping away at our Loyalist identity, FFS, we’re not even allowed traditional supremacist murder-fantasies anymore. Chip, chip, chip.
It must be very confusing for Loyalists that, with the saturation of cameras on phones, etc., their antics, redolent of ’50s Alabama redneck rallies, are exposed to questioning.
Imagine if a nationalist comparator said that??
Actually, can we, really? We’re so conditioned by the media & discourse in this mad place to make allowances for Unionist/Loyalist exceptionalism. The rule of law, and civilized norms, after a certain point, just don’t apply to them.
That’s the unlovely ragged thread that runs through the gerrymandered carve-out of this benighted statelet to the impunity to block roads, and the refusal, even now, to shake hands with partners in gov. while cosying with unrepentant convicted double murderers like Billy Hutchinson (increasingly our premier Mr Burns lookalike – have you seen him in Carson costume?).
Why do the media, and our politicians, not hammer home that point about double-standards on ‘terrorism’ each and every single time Jim Allister & co. open their indignant mouths???
We have pictures of Jim shoulder-to-shoulder with Billy Hutchinson at Twaddell.
We have pictures of Peter Robinson shaking hands with Jackie McDonald in Stormont this year.
We have pictures of Nelson McCausland posing with Billy Hunter.
Etc., etc., etc..
How many people (particularly in the South) know that Peter Robinson & Sammy Wilson carried the coffin of terrorist godfather Ray Smallwoods? A damn sight less than know that Gerry Adams carried the coffin of Thomas Begley!!!
Why the imbalance?
On this point, I’m relatively young, I can’t remember first-hand, so could someone here please tell me what reason was given by officialdom for not banning the UDA until 1992??? Seriously, WTF?
Brilliant post. The hypocrisy is overwhelming. It is time the media acknowledged the big orange elephant in the room.
The Irreverend Mervyn’s presence at the Haass talks was an absolute joke. What does it say for our democracy when a member of a bigoted, supremacist ‘fraternal brotherhood’ is a member of the delegation for a governing party of the Assembly? Did anybody ever vote for big Merv? If the OO wish to be involved in politics they should be made to stand on an Orange ticket, instead of hiding in plain sight within the DUP. Man of God me arse.
T.Russell :
The best one I ever saw that fully encapsulates your view was a graffito on a wall I drove past daily on my way to work , back in the the day..It read “Billy Wright is our Herio “…..Yes , that’s right Mrs. Spellcheck….”Herio”. in huge white letters…… I think that might tell you everything you need to know. about those people you mention . The same Billy Wright that the sanctimonious, unctuous “Reverend” William McCrea of DUP fame , cozied up to at a public rally in Portadown , when it was well known that said Billy had a budding God complex, possibly saw visions, and was responsible for murderous behaviour all over the county.
Now we have an ongoing campaign against the Polish community here….and where is this insular navel -gazing , shit – throwing , aggression coming from…the place that radio presenters are afraid to name….These Billy boys are cut from the same cloth as their hill- “Billy” buddies that a few years back were hanging “Strange Fruit” from Alabama trees…
The B.B.C. appears to be continuing a trend of broadcasting the views of former participants in the body politic. Hugh Orde reminded us today that there is no political will to deal with the past. Tell us something we did not know. His comments conveniently side step a failure to deal with Freedom of Information requests and enables the government to perpetuate the current political inertia.
I don’t think there is a single Catholic of sound mind who would think that there is anything Christ like in the the words and actions of Mervyn Gibson. I would go further and say that there would be significant number of Presbyterian ministers who could not stand over his words and deeds.
Mervyn’s God is one of vengeance and retribution one that would approve of organisations which prevented its members marrying Catholics, one where it is acceptable to ‘hate one’s neighbour’ and wish him dead!
Quite depressing to think that there are others who would take succour from his words of hate but it comes from a long pedigree of men of hate like ‘Roaring Huge Hannah’ who fostered bile and division in our country!
It is good that modern social media picks up every bitter word which emanates from bigots like Mervyn because each instance cements in free thinking people here that there will be no going back to the bad old days of loyalist supremacy!
It is like being an extra in Mississippi’s Burning although in this country they don’t bother with the sheets!
The onus is on the Presbyterian Church to distance themselves from these comments as a minimum requirement.
We can draw our own conclusion if the Church fail to do this.
Media here don’t seem to like confronting naked sectarianism!
The whole cultural ethos revolves around hatred of their neighbours, fighting century old battles, marching in victory and of course badly fitting quasi military uniforms.
It is actually quite depressing to read the comments on this blog, I thought it possibly would be refreshing to take part in some of the discussions, but unfortunately that is not the case. Mr Collins, once again you are deliberately stirring it up as you could expect the type of responses you were going to get once you did your piece on the Rev Gibson. N Ireland is still very much a divided society, and for all the bitter ripostes we get on here, there are going to be mirror images of these elsewhere. Pointis, paddycool, et al, you are no different to billy and jimmy somewhere else, for your views of Billy Wright, they look at Francie Hughes in the same way. Your views on the Orange Order is the way they look at the GAA, that’s the way it is, and until we start to tolerate each other, the stalemate will continue.
Spot on William
What do you think of Gibson’s comments William ?
William Fay, can you seriously deny the points made by the contributors here? The likes of Gibson are the problem not the solution. Until the media calls a spade a spade and highlights the intransigence and double standards shown by Unionist politicians we will get nowhere.
Another Jude, that is precisely the comment I expect, “it’s not us, it’s them”, have a look around you, and you will be able to see lots of Rev Gibsons. Martin McGuinness, ” You are not allowed to arrest us, and if you do, we will throw all our teddies out.” Grow up Another Jude, the points here are pure’whataboutery’, you’re all as bad as each other.
The reason Martin McGuinness and other Republicans objected to the selective arrest of Gerry Adams was because it was precisely that, selective. If the war is over why are people being questioned about IRA activities from forty years ago? By asking him questions about the IRA they are still in the business of gathering intelligence. Either the war is over or it`s not. Portraying the current impasse as `one side is as bad as the other` is just wrong. Sinn Féin have condemned the dissidents and Gerry Adams has once again supported the PSNI .Are the police going to arrest people for every incident that occurred in 1972, if they are then they had better start building some more holding centres because there were hundreds killed that year. Mrs McConville has been used by Unionists and the media, surely you can see that? Will British soldiers and RUC personnel responsible for killings then be arrested? I doubt it. As for Mervyn Gibson, he is a loyalist first and minister second and that sort of quasi religious (non elected in his case) nonsense is the reason why the six counties will never be a `normal` society.
Another Jude, terminology is part of the problem. What war is it you were talking about, the last war in this country was the War of Independence, where there were two identified sides, wearing uniforms, taking POWs etc; the period of internecine conflict, when one side wore a uniform and the others didn’t does not fit into the description of war in any way. The vast majority of murders were close quarter shoots, usually in the back or under car booby traps and no warning bombs, so spare me the bleeding heart stories for the poor victimised terrorists, loyalist and republican.
You also seemed to be confused over what a police service does, they investigate and if the evidence is there, they prosecute. That is what happens in any normal society, and I emphasise normal. Are you now saying that no previous crimes should be investigated, including Ballymurphy, Bloody Sunday, Greysteel, etc.
A lot of people, including yourself suggest the McConville family are being used, is this because they are making republicans feel uncomfortable with their past? Maybe we should advise Sinn Fein to threaten them again to shut up or get out
When I refer to sides, I refer to republicans and loyalists, I don’t differentiate between them, they are one and the same, nothing to offer but bigotry and misery.
I mourn the loss of Rev Willam Bingham.
He had the courage to say when enough was enough and they turned on him.
Sad.
William :
I don’t know where you get the idea that that I condone or support fundamentalist bigotry of any stripe. I you have read in depth any of my postings at any time , you’d know that was far from the truth.
I totally disagree with the endless antagonistic tearing at each other but I like to keep to the facts .I do not take sides specifically .I do not believe in heroes Or “Herios” like Billy Wright or Francie Hughes. I do not believe in their delusional blood sacrifice, nor do I think that building memorials to anyone in a divided society is a good thing…..
What I see is bigotry and medieval insular thinking. I see woolly media reports which will not place blame for racism/bigotry where it lies. I see politicians on all sides afraid to lead by good example . Foolish religious men like Willie McCrea and Mervyn Gibson are only symptomatic of a deeply set adherence to a pre-Christian Stone Age Old Testament revenge philosophy. They presumably do not want to love their neighbour …they want an eye for an eye. ..they want hands cut off…..
There is a problem in that we had a troubled war here which had its origins in a unionist misrule for fifty years.. There are another eight hundred years to tussle over but the previous fifty spawned our current dilemma.The unionists were the only ones with the levers of power in their hands and they made a right mess of it…. , yet they don’t appear to understand that they had any part to play in the genesis of the conflict.
They seem unable to understand their part in the problem and that anything needs fixing . Every change for a more balanced and secular society where religion is both protected and protected against ,is stymied.. They want to be british but they don’t want to be like the secular british of today… They want to be like a perceived version of the conquering british from centuries ago. They have not accepted that they were born Irishmen…not Scottish, English or Welsh…
Every time there is a move made to equalise this divided society such as applying the same regime of flag- flying as applies in the UK … or that gays should be allowed to marry, there is an Old Testament uproar…..an uproar based on mores from thousands of years ago that have no real relevance to the 21st century…
Let’s get this straight , a playground should be named after someone who can be enjoyed by all of the community….not just one section….
There is no comparison between the Orange Order and the GAA on any level .
The GAA does not annually get the media dogs roaring with threats and insulting behaviour on the streets as the Orange Order do….Their supporters do not build bonfires and burn effigies of old enemies either ,nor do they presume to party where they are not wanted.
These “Reverends” have a very strange idea about community relations too when they can cozy up to killers in their communities and making veiled disparaging threats of death to the their oppositional leaders….. instead of distancing themselves…..if it was the Catholic Church or the Jewish community, I’d feel the same.
paddy, please refer to my previous post to anotherjude, you and the loyalists are one and the same, failing to tolerate each other, consistently in the business of whataboutery, I really don’t think you have anything new to say but the same old rhetoric, Cadwalleder had about 300 hundred pages of it. It’s always someone else, it had nothing to do with us, yawn, yawn, yawn
I’m sorry paddy but you only see things one way and obviously being an elder statesman, you have no intention in changing your views. Could you please advise on how you believe the GAA is not a sectarian organisation. Many of the grounds are named after IRA men, the fans sing IRA songs, etc, protestants are not welcome; should I go on? I don’t get it, the same way I don’t get the loyalists and their activities. And yes, you are right about religion, I don’t get it with these reverends or the priests who were very friendly indeed with the IRA. You are not a neutral, so please do not try and pretend otherwise.
William
How is the GAA sectarian?
Its the number one sport on the island, thats in terms of the number of people taking part every week. Your not asked what your religion is, as a precondition to joining a team.
And how do you figure out “protestants are not welcome”?
The All-Ireland Football Championship held every summer and regarded as the flagship of the sport, the trophy awarded to the winners The Sam Maguire Cup is named after a man who was a member of the Church of Ireland, if the GAA was a sectarian organisation like you believe they would not hold Samuel Maguire in such high esteem.
Please, Anthony, don’t try and defend the indefensible. I have no doubt you can name the ‘token’ prod here and there, but it is a sectarian sport. Do you think a Protestant can stand in a GAA ground and feel comfortable, the way Darren Graham felt comfortable playing Gaelic football in Fermanagh.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/protestant-gaa-star-hounded-out-by-vile-taunts-26308621.html
How can a victim of a PIRA death squad go into a ground named after the murderer of their loved one, can you see where I’m coming from?
In reference to Sam Maguire, yes he was born into the C of I faith, became an Irish republican, supported the anti-Treaty forces after partition, died alone and penniless, without support from his great friends who now laud him.
I’m not trying to defend anything, but even Darren Graham in that interview said “he was giving up the sport altogether because of persistent sectarian abuse from certain players in three clubs in particular.”
Your trying to paint the whole organisation as sectarian.
I’m from Dublin, when I played a couple of years ago our goal keeper was a prod but religion doesnt run the south like the north, on that same team now, theres young lads of Polish and a couple of African origin, nobody cares what religion they are, as I said the GAA has the highest participation of any sport on the island and its not a sectarian organisation.
William : I really do not believe you have read or in the least bit understood anything I have written.. Your answer gives no clue as to any rational questioning .I find it distasteful that I could be perceived as either a loyalist or a republican when the truth of my background is a whole lot more complicated.Because I can see through the extremist nonsense of one group does not mean I can’t also see the same claptrap from the other. I’ve lived through over sixty years of this nonsense and I can see it from all the angles.
William,
Your point seems, in summary, to be that there is an equivalence between the following, also summarised, positions of recent days:
1) Reverend Gibson: I wish my opponent was killed.
2) Mr. Adams: The past was awful because we all hurt each other so we need to do things differently now.
There is no equivalence. Surely you can see that.
Also, for the reasons Paddykool gives above, there is no equivalence between the Orange Order & the GAA.
As I’ve said before, in response to An Gobsmacht, perception is indeed very, very, important, however the wise maxim is ‘let justice be done & be seen to be done’, not ‘the perception of justice is more important than justice itself’.
In the final analysis, if you really cannot find it within yourself to accept that the 2 summary positions above are not the same, that it’s not just a case of “they’re both as bad as each other”, then Iet us agree to disagree – however that in itself seems almost impossible for political unionism.
Political unionism/ Orangeism, seems to have a serious difficulty with civilly disagreeing! They literally won’t shake hands with Gerry Kelly at al. because they say they’re ‘terrorists’ but they will shake hands with Billy ‘no regrets’ Hutchinson et al.
Why the contrast?? This is no small thing, but the DISTILLED ESSENCE of our problem!
So, please William, tell me, why that contrast?
Thank-you.
William ,I fear you are as far off the mark about “the war of independence ” as you are about more recent events.One of the first books I ever read was Dan Breens “my fight for Irish freedom.If Dan wore a uniform it was a very strange one indeed, a broad brimmed hat,a well worn jacket from an old suit encircled with a belt with webley revolver attached and a pair of navvy’s boots! As for taking POWs ,former FF td Martin Corry had his own personal graveyard in co Cork where dozens were buried without any hint of trial or mercy.Martin didn’t deny it either and in taped interviews in the 70s he actually boasted about it.
Ha, ha, Thomas, funny, funny man. Rev Gibson is stupid enough to come out and say what he thinks, Mr Adams denies it,even when the whole world knows what he was involved in. Please refer to my answer to paddycool, the orange order and the gaa are two peas in the one pod, except different colours of course.
William, you didn’t/couldn’t answer my question about Unionist basic interpersonal double standards re: handshakes with ex-combatants.
So, in a telling, eloquent, sense, your silence did answer my question.
Thanks.
Thomas, I’m not sure I know what you want me to say, and I’m not sure who the ex-combatants are. Now if you are referring to republican or loyalist terrorists, I would go out of my way not to shake any of their hands so I could not agree with any politician doing the same. The problem is a lot of the people in Stormont have terrorist convictions that in my book makes them terrorists, would there be anything else you require clarification on?
Michael, what exactly is your point here, the IRA disappeared people in the early 1900s as they did in the 70s, so it’s ok then? There were war crimes committed in the War of Independence, but you know exactly what I was getting at. PIRA took prisoners but did not release one alive, any they did take they tortured to death, including their own people.
William : You said ……
” Pointis, paddycool, et al, you are no different to billy and jimmy somewhere else, for your views of Billy Wright, they look at Francie Hughes in the same way. Your views on the Orange Order is the way they look at the GAA, that’s the way it is, and until we start to tolerate each other, the stalemate will continue.”
I’ll simply re-iterate my point that either you have not read or failed to understand what I said here and on many , many other blogs…..
I covered plenty of ground ,I’ll grant you, but I don’t see how the GAA has contributed to the annual street violence that poisons our streets as the Orange Order continues to do without a hint of “Christian” irony…. … I just don’t see that happening in the media or being argued over on the radio and television…How are the GAA behaving and how have they become such a successful organisation? The GAA is a sporting organisation which does not wish to march through the streets many, many times annually.They are not causing a problem for anyone on the streets or inciting riots.
.Do you live with this annual nonsense or not?
Have you not heard about the death threats from lunatics because they want to fly flags more than their counterparts in the UK? Death threats !!! Are these people even sane? There are more flags flying here than there ever will be in the UK…..Again , I say ..are these people sane?
Then there’s the abject hypocrisy of unionist politicians supporting them. Do you not see this?Are they even sane?
As far as I know there is no IRA any more but you wouldn’t think that if you listened to unionist politicians. They see bogey men everywhere….. As someone else has mentioned , they haven’t even the grace to shake a man’s hand even though their beloved Queen has no such problem…She’s a better woman than they are men…..
Do you see any discrepancy here? ….I really do…
. It’s a long time now since the Agreement. was signed .Didn’t they all agree to share responsibility? You wouldn’t think that when you listen to some of the DUP rhetoric..You nearly believe their hands were clean ..They’ve forgotten too how we got into this mess..
.Who was Ian Paisley anyway?. Maybe you’ve forgotten about the Great Gulderer too?
He spent a lifetime entertaining his more rabid followers , stirring them up by insulting his neighbours’ religion…I don’t remember a similar demagogue from the Nationalist end doing a similar “entertainment”. They weren’t that interested.
I do remember people demonstrating for Civil Rights though….whatever the hell they’d need Civil rights for !!! {Well that’s another story right there…}
..and I remember them them being hassled and beaten off the streets while Paisley was given a free run all the way to the House of Lords ….remembering on the way to make up with Marty and shake his hand before leaving his whole jamboree in the hands of Peter Robinson…the same Peter with his links to paramilitaries. Peter’s forgotten too and so his hands are clean…
I also remember a carload of B-Specials gunning down an innocent man on the street…but that was okay too…they were probably trying to wing him but got lucky!!!
So who are these people with clean hands ? Which killing do we start investigating first? do we take them as they happened and work our way up to the present over this next fifty years or do we try for a new start . shake hands and forgive each other …work out some radical ways of living together and let politics fall as they may?..
Or do act like spoiled brats and blame each other forever and demand revenge until we’ve poisoned another generation?
No…this whole thing just happened by magic….Poooof!! …and it appeared out of the wide blue yonder and no-one is to blame ..{I hope you do irony…}… Unionism has really clean hands and theer’s nothing to apologise for….
I think nationalists need to open their eyes and understand that when members of the british community, living here, refuse to notice their hypocrisy that it isnt deliberate. When they utter the usual lines like ‘i condemn all terrorism’ they really believe it. For in their eyes, although they will never admit it, they do not view loyalist violence as ‘terrorism’ as these groups were simply a branch of the british army. Some of these loyalists got and continue to be paid by the british state. The dogs in the street know that the the british pulled their strings right from the start. There is even a belief that actual british soldiers killed catholics and got billy wright etc to admit responsibility afterwards.
I for one am not convinced that the british community were even that bothered by loyalist terror during the troubles. Personally i always felt they were very quiet after an loyalist atrocity, usually a few words from robin eames and that was it. On the other hand the nationalist community would be swift to condemn republican violence and would show it eg maireaid corrigan gang. And before i am corrected, these peace movements appeared to be ‘cross community’ but again those dogs in the street know that they had their sights on republican violence sin e.
William Fay, I think you will find the IRA released several prison officers from their custody in S. Armagh in the early nineties if i recall? Credit where credit is due ; )
Yes paddycool, you have, as expected, come back with the stock answer, “blame the Brits”, it had nothing to do with republicans, long winded answers saying absolutely nothing. Stop wasting your time and watch TV.
It’s good to see that wolfe tone has the inside track on the mind of the unionists, or British community as he calls them. As for the rest of his post, I think he dreamt it. Please advise me when the provides released the POs.
That should state ‘provies’ not ‘provides’
William : I’m afraid you have completely lost both the plot and the run of yourself. I never mentioned any “Brits” anywhere…. Methinks someone has been dabbling with your tea…..
It’s your terminology, paddy, and thanks for your history lesson of the troubles as you saw it. Can you really believe it was all the unionists fault and republicans were blameless, perhaps you’ve been in a time warp these last forty years. I really should put something in my tea as this is getting quite tedious!
September 1990, 5 prison officers and an RUC man coming home from a trip to the free state, encountered an IRA checkpoint in belleek, s armagh. They were arrested and apart from the paramilitary cop they were all released?? Perhaps i did dream It but i am sure you can check the details with Willie f.
If you read the report on that incident, they had no idea that they had stopped a group of POs, but they were aware that there was a peeler amongst them, not sure what a paramilitary cop is. They were actually stopped near Killeen off the Dublin Rd and nowhere near Belleek. The provies did not make arrests as you say, they are an illegal organisation, they merely kidnapped and tortured people.
I’m not sure who you think I am but as I’ve stated a number of times, I absolutely abhor violence of any kind and hate everything all paramilitaries stand for. I am a research student and am fully aware of my history and the subject matter, but thanks all the same.
william : I’m afraid you read all that nonsense into it .I’m well aware that republicans have no clean hands either . You seem to pretend that unionism is not also at fault .They have made little effort . My only fault is that I’ve lived through it and have seen a lot of this horror first hand .You , on the other hand ,have not understood anything and have covered your lackof understanding by resorting to puerile insult without answering anyone’s individual points or questions. A pointless one way conversation, really .Enough said .Your mind is closed tight..
Paddykool,
Willies mind was never open!
To sum up his views:-
Anyone who doesn’t agree that all the troubles are the fault of Republicans is just giving succour to the IRA and is really an undesirable person.
Sinn Fein and the IRA are one and the same and are unclean and I would certainly shake hands with them if they offered it to me in friendship.
I am a research student and know more than everyone else here!
Because I know it all it gives me the right to be rude to anyone with whom I disagree.
Jude’s blogs are really just giving the oxygen of publicity to terrorists.
That should read ‘not shake hands with them’ but who knows, the sun can break through even the darkest of clouds!
pointis, read the blogs, I said I have no time for any terrorist, whatever their creed or colour. The handshaking was in response to the reference to Peter Robinson, Jackie McDonald, etc, the same Jackie McDonald who is the golf partner of your ex-presidents husband.
I’m sorry paddy, you have got me totally wrong, I certainly don’t think unionism is blameless, I’m just sick of the consistent republican rhetoric of pointing the finger elsewhere, when the reality is that a vacuum that was created in the early 70s gave PIRA plenty of room to manoeuvre and vent their wave of destruction.
william fay- Thanks for clarifying that incident. Its obvious you have access to better ‘intel’ than the rest of us. But if they ‘didnt know they were PO’s’ i am wondering why didnt they just shoot them anyway as according to the likes of yourself the IRA were bloodthirsty sectarian murderers and i am guessing those PO’s were protestant??? Maybe you and your colleagues can ‘research’ that one? By the way good luck with your research but in the interests of fairness please try and refrain from rewriting that research.
wolfetone, please don’t try and kid me any more about your neutral views. It’s not difficult to research that incident, there are details of it in a number of books and on the web, but I suppose it was a lot easier for you just to make things up. I have no idea what the religion of the POs were but I would suggest they were of mixed religion, not sure what your getting at here but I presume you suggest that by the IRA not murdering them defeated my theory. Your delusional views on the troubles do not surprise me anymore, I see many with their brainwashed views in the universities all the time, whether they are irish republicans and loyalists, Balkan separatists, jihadists, et al. They have all got a sob story of how they were denied their rights and took to murdering and destruction, they are all the same in my book.
Willie
It seems to me you are getting a bit of a raw deal here.
I agree with you about the nature of many postings here and their reflection on loyalist sites.
Jude is not in the business of outreach.It is more a case of regurgitating SF policy in digestible form for the faithful.
I think you have been clear in your condemnation of loyalist violence and bigotry but I don’t think you can make a straight comparison between the Orange and the GAA.
The most obvious difference being the GAA are not out on the streets causing problems where they march and offense to church goers. The Orange Order has failed to deal with those problems robustly. Unionist politicians have failed to take a strong clear line with these problems. Do you agree?
No-one here or on other similar blogs is likely to have their opinion changed on the big issues, but maybe a small increase in understanding how the other lot think makes it worth persevering. Maybe not.
Fair one giordanobruno, but my analogy between the Orange Order and the GAA is purely that they are at opposite ends of the margin, they are sectarian and have no time for the other side.
If i have come across as ‘neutral’ i can clear that up now by stating i am an Irish Republican and have never hid that fact. Me thinks wiliiam you protest too much. I would be curious to know where you stand with state violence(careful now!) as you have made it clear your opposition to paramilitary violence?
And if you have any spare time maybe you could ‘research’ the reasoning behind ‘bomber’ Harris bombing thousands of innocent germans off this mortal coil? Was it to inflict widespread terror upon all german people in an effort to make them reject and maybe plead the nazis into surrender?? And on the same hand, closer to home, was that not the policy of the british militia? They butchered[literally] a wide spectrum of the catholic community in an attempt to force that community to beg or force the IRA to halt their activities. As a matter of fact, if you do your ‘research’ properly you will find it is an age old tactic the british have practised in numerous countries they have occupied. I guess thats why i cant shake the notion that the british community in the north were very quiet at loyalist atrocities during the troubles; its almost like it was their culture?
I’m glad to say Wolfe Tone did not have your views. I have no truck with any type of violence, including that committed by state actors.
Nice rant by the way about ‘bomber Harris’, I suppose you could change that period of history as well and say the British started the war. Maybe it was the British that started the Irish civil war as well, maybe it was Unionist agents that committed atrocities on behalf of the Dail and anti-treay forces. In fact, shall we just blame the Brits and their Unionist cohorts for everything.
William fay, nice rant back at you mo chara. in the eyes of the british community ‘bomber’ harris a hero; brighton bomber a coward?Go figure.
With every action there is a reaction and when british agents openly ‘smuggled’ thousands of german rifles into the island of ireland to create an ulster militia, i think a blind man could have foreseen bad times ahead. Funnily enough approx 70 years later british agents ‘smuggled’ more rifles into the island of ireland to arm an ulster militia. Can you see a pattern emerging here william? Again its almost as if its in the british culture.
On another footnote the british community have been very quiet yet again at the ongoing campaign of terror on the foreign community that resides in this state. Its almost as if its in their culture. Doesnt it make you proud? The truth is william, the british community in the north need to foment bigotry to maintain the status quo, it is and always will be the primary defence against change.
Great comeback wolfie, and more British agents caused the downfall of the Anglo Irish Bank to bring down Sean Quinn, whilst other Brits were causing the floods over the winter. I’m sorry mate, but you are starting to sound pathetic with your constant anti unionist/British rhetoric, hatred like that must consume you
Now now William – what have I told you about playing the man and not the ball?
Your last comment certainly made me chuckle!
That applies to you too, Neill, you little rascal…
Take a tea break william ; )
My friend Brent and I are both Presbyterian elders. This is our response to Mervyn’s speech. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCQ4ihJA1ug
I think Dave the Bible says a few other things as well, so which part do you believe,
Exodus 21: 22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Stone age religion for stone age mentality.Grow up and live in the present world…..Their are issuses to be solved if we want to move on,they will not be solved by the injustices committed in the past but by the way we want to live in the future.This applys to both sides.
Chris, I’m not being serious, please relax
I wouldn’t put myself forward as a Biblical scholar or an example of Christianity in action, but didn’t somebody say the devil can quote scripture? William old chap, I think you’ll just have to accept that forgiveness of enemies, regardless of how they act, is at the centre of Christianity. And (again stressing I’m no Biblical expert), isn’t Old Testament teaching supposed to have been superseded by New Testament teaching?
Jude, depending on which version you follow, you can believe what suits you, there’s one version that allows you commit mass murder and get forgiveness after. So please don’t preach to me on Christianity, if church leaders had have pointed out how wrong it was what they were doing, maybe we wouldn’t have been in this mess. But I suppose, as long as we seek forgiveness, we can carry on murdering.
Couldn’t ask for a more friendly man and such a family man. Close to my family at all times always at the end of a phone if he is needed. GSMG ☺️☺️☺️