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I’m very impressed by the level of interest that’s been shown in this site in recent days. Comments by readers have been thoughtful and detailed, and arguments (in many if not all instances) have been built on logic and evidence, rather than trying to poke a stick in the other guy’s eye.
One of the main issues that was raised in recent days was declining numbers of voters. Prior to the last election I raised this with Gerry Kelly, who conceded that this was a trend throughout Western Europe and maybe the US as well. But he pointed out- I probably should have spotted it myself – that decline affects all parts equally, so nationalists/republicans shouldn’t see it as a disaster that will solely damage their cause. It damages belief in the democratic system but it doesn’t, by and large, benefit one party at the expense of another. I could be wrong but I do believe Gerry Kelly’s vote in North Belfast went up last time, even though he didn’t win the seat.
However, if you’re going to have a healthy political system, it’s important that people see every voter has a part to play in the system, and that s/he owes it to the rest of us to play his/her part. There are several possible ways in which this problem could be approached.
1. Compulsory voting. There are 22 countries which have compulsory voting, although only 10 enforce the rule. Among the latter are Argentina, Australia, Brazil and Cyprus. The fear is that those forced to the polls will simply spoil their ballot. Some will but my guess is that most won’t. So we could solve the problem at a stroke if voting were made compulsory.
2. Preferable to that would be that people would voluntarily or even eagerly go to the polls of they own free will. Deserved or not, politics has always had a bad name. The electorate mutter that they’re all in it for themselves, feathering their nests with a fat pension, bickering and nay-saying when they should be working for the common good. I don’t actually believe that is the case – certainly not in the majority of cases. It’s vital that the honest, constructive work that many politicians – of all parties – do is more widely acknowledged. And of course politics should be a core subject in school and children taught that they owe it to society to be knowledgeable about and/or participatory in the democratic process.
3. Social media. One of the groups in society who are most turned off by politics are young people. These same young people are the most active users of social media. It seems to me that there must be a join-up point between social media and politics. It happens to some extent – a lot of politicians have Facebook pages – but there must be a way in which politicians could reach young people by using social media and through social media urge the case for the involvement of such young people in politics. We have never had a more democratic system of communication within the electorate and, potentially, between politicians and the social media. Just how it might best be put to work I’m not sure. But I know the readership of this blogsite is a highly intelligent and astute group of people (they wouldn’t be reading it if they weren’t, Virginia), so I look forward to some answers. We’ve had the problems: time to hear some solutions.
Those concerned over falling numbers of voters, those concerned with putting flesh on the bones of the argument for a united Ireland, really do need to think creatively as to the part social media can play.
Jude, I genuinely think these discussions are healthy and progressive. What would be beneficial is contributions from the political parties to inform the electorate as to how they are addressing apathy, if they are!
In relation to Gerry Kelly – He talks about a “trend” in voter apathy – something only remains a trend if it is not challenged and I have yet to see any evidence of political parties trying to challenge voter apathy. Academic research does back up what Gerry Kelly says, but accepting it and using that as a means of justification, without challenging it, is dangerous and foolish – “challenge is the pathway to engagement and progress.” Trends change – look at Scotland. Look at the energy around Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership election campaign – people young and old can be engaged – they need to be engaged. Political parties here must be willing to break the “trend” and step beyond their comfort zones to do so – First step in my opinion – appointment of an independent body by the Nationalist political parties to go into the various constituencies to do the groundwork and find out the reasons for apathy, reporting back its findings – ask people 1. Why they vote? 2. Why they don’t vote? 3. What social/political/economic issues are important to them? 4. What can the political parties do to reengage them? etc. If there are answers to questions, then there is the opportunity to tackle voter apathy and remedy the apparent “trend”.
I live in the North Belfast constituency and I had no engagement from either Nationalist Party prior to this year’s General Election, which was frustrating – then on polling day, at the station, swamped by Nationalist parties and leaflets. Suffice to say, I voted as I am quite political and did the research – what about those who won’t / don’t do the research? They are the very people whom need targetted. iIn 2015 GE, Gerry Kelly’s vote went down 0.1% (2010 assmebly elections went up 7.1%) in the constituency as did the SDLP vote, by 4.1% (consistent decline, 2010 Assembly elections – went down 4,5%) in a constituency Brian Feeny said (in 2013) “will go Nationalist”, boasting a nationalist political majority soon – well, somethings going wrong as the Nationalist vote is in decline with an increasing Nationalist population. The 2011 census has the Catholic population (many would vote Nationalist) increase by 5% with the Protestant population (many who would vote Unionist) decline by 14.7%. I have no doubt the electorate pact worked successfully here, hence the 7.0% increase for Nigel Dodds – but Unionism were thinking when Nationalism were either arguing, day dreaming or sleeping. The leaflet posted through the doors by North Belfast SF probably didn’t help Gerry Kelly’s campaign either – the 2015 GE result was Gerry Kelly’s first decline in the vote since he began contesting the seat, as far as I know
I feel there is a lot to learn from the success of the SNP rise – get Party representatives over to meet with party strategists and ask what they are doing, to turn voters on. This could then be replicated.
In relation to education – Citizenship was a subject introduced into the curriculum a number of years ago. This subject examines politics, political issues and looks at the Northern Ireland government ETC. As a teacher, I have witnessed for years the poor teaching of this subject by non-specialists – if anything it is successful in disengaging children from politics- I feel there needs to be an overhaul with this subject with specialists brought in. The Northern Ireland Assembly have an education team who link with schools and set up debates with young people and politicians – these events are great, but are only offered to 6th form pupils who have chosen politics – perhaps engagement with younger children would be of benefit.
Thank you, TH – that’s a detailed and challenging look at the issue. Maybe I should make a specific request for reps of various parties to come on and do a guest blog on voter decline?
Personally, I think that would be great, Jude. You might get the old line … “no one was available for comment” – it is a serious issue than needs addressed sooner, rather than later and I would be delighted to hear how political parties are tackling same. If they aren’t, well they need to start thinking and get moving …
One way to turn students off is to make citizenship a compulsory subject in schools!
We need to be careful looking at compulsory voting. For example in Australia relatively few people actually vote even though it is compulsory. The numbers of people registered to vote is quite low.
I also get frustrated in Australia by the number of people who vote without really understanding what they are voting for. A lot of these people wouldn’t vote except they are registered voters and want to avoid a fine.
I think it is a healthy thing when apathetic or ignorant people don’t vote, I wouldn’t want them having a say on my future.
As far as i know Emmet, Citizenship is a component of Learning for Life and Work (LLW) and its a core subject at KS3, where children have to study. Alongside that is employability and Personal Development – LLW then becomes a choice subject at KS4. I think its great in the curriculum if delivered the correct way and by someone with an interest in the subject – too often in schools, its a timetable filler – which effectively dilutes the impact and interest of the subject.
Yes well I think that is problematic! When I taught citizenship it was very ‘light on’ (that was in England over 10 years ago!) on the politics side, but still unless the teachers are knowledgeable and enthusiastic then I think having it as compulsory will be bad fro political engagement.
That could only be a good thing Jude and would help bring the issue of low voter turn out home to the SDLP/SF. The serious issue of low voter turn out in the Nationalist community needs to be the No.1 issue with both the SDLP and Sinn Fein. There again, lack of Nationalist co-operation many would argue is the No.1 problem facing Nationalism and the enmity between the SDLP and SF is causing more and more Nationalists not to bother coming out to vote, its a turn off.
What’s the old saying: “United we stand, divided we fall”? I think we can all agree Fermanagh/South Tyrone would not have fallen from Nationalism had SDLP/SF made a pact but thankfully theres an opportunity to retake it in 2020, lets hope the SDLP/SF have learnt their lesson, because if they haven’t South Belfast will be the next to go into Unionist hands, not due to Unionist actions/planning but due to the infighting of Nationalism which has been the case for decades and that suicidal legacy must end now.
Jude, an important point you missed is that young people have to show their disregard for the establishment as a mark of independence and coming of age. Also most of them are very adept at finding the easiest way to do things – otherwise new and better ways would not be invented. So harness this. Make voting easier. Vote online with everybody using a unique PIN. randomly generated, like the financial systems do. Probably cheaper too. It could allow mini referenda etc at the drop of a hat.
Excellent idea, fiosrach. There may be pitfalls but it merits attention…
i withdrew my custom from pubs when they supported the smoking ban,it will be the same if you try to enforce voting,imagine the peelers pulling people from their homes for non payment of fines because they couldnt be bothered voting it might work elsewhere it certainly wont work here,let the politicians earn the vote,
As evidenced by the current TTIP (The Transatlantic Trade and Investment) where the EU politicians are trying to force through a free trade pact between The European Union and The United States of America. It is clear that the average citizen does not have much of a say in things. A similar trade pact was signed between the Republic of Mexico and The USA with disasterous consequences for the agri-food market. The fear is that the USA will pass their cheap grain feed cattle and gm food onto Europe and send our grass feed and non-gm crop farmers out of business thus destroying the centuries old European food traditions. This is why people are not voting! Nowhere on a european election manifesto was this mentioned.
You will be interested to hear, Esteemed Blogmeister, that S.M. (1) is rated a good few rungs lower on the ladder of disapproval in that haven of tolerance, the Free Southern Stateeen, than S.M. (2).
For S.M.(1) read Social Media and for S.M. (2) read (gulp) Sado Masochism.
One knows this from developing a desirable addiction to the critically-acclaimed column of the Reigning Queen of the Rainbow Highbrows in The Unionist Times. (Though Miss P. Bliss might have a hiss or two to issue at that designation).
As recently as (gasp) yesterday Una Mulally (for it is she !) wrote in her weekly Monday column a piece entitled ‘What are you looking at ?’ and subheaded ‘The honeymoon period is over for Social Media platforms’.
As the only S.M. platform Perkie’s inner troll has strolled upon, awaiting the daily train of thought of E.B.,, is a blog one is not qualified to discuss facebook, twitter, instagram etc. But being a mere blogtrotter nevertheless does give one a certain perspective.
For instance, a recognition that a troll in the critically-acclaimed mainstream mind of Ms. Mulally enjoys approximately the same elevation of thumbs-uppery as does the leprechaun, that Irish equivalent of the Scandinavian hobgoglin, in the wide-lensed world view of say, Sophisticated Sommy, linguist.
-The hysterics on Social Media have become deafening.
So, Esteemed Blogmeister, twiddle that voluminous blogknob of yours in a downward direction: puleeze.
-The era of phoney rage means that when reflective and worthwhile rage is earned, it gets mixed up with all the pointless stuff.
Now where or where ,pray, does the r. and w. rage (the genuine r.a.w. rage) get published? Why, in the august pages of The Unionist Times, and other critically-acclaimed no less. While not stated in such explicit terms the hint unmistakable is contained in the e-word: earned.
For,in the FSS (and perhaps even wider afield, though one suspects to a much lesser degree) ‘to earn’ has somehow become synonymous with ‘to get paid’. Or even, vice versa. And there is no doubt but the columnists in T.U.T. get to wheelbarrow home well-earned hillocks of moolah for the expression of their reflective and worthwhile rage.
Can the same be said of the blogtrotters, those producers of pointless stuff (and nonsence)? Truly are these losers the politcial football equivalents of their fellow amateurs, the bogballers of the G.A.A.
(And we all know where that GAA stands vis a vis their moral superiors in the OO in the eyes of the Religious Affairs Correspondent of The Unionist Times.)
As Social Media is a retreat from real life, according to Una Paloma Blanca (as she is known and not unaffectionately) such a retreat cannot but have grave consequences.
While those sinister manipulators of Social Media, the Chuckyheads don’t get a mench in this article, there was obviously no call: that particular corner of the market has already been cornered by the, erm, cornerboys and girls (in the positive meaning of that phrase) of T.U.T’s Sister Paper, the Sindo sans Sin.
The latter DOBlication is particularly peeved by the Chuckyheads on account of their disregard for the Real World and their devotion to the Fanaticism of Fantasy Land.
But, then, the same sort of gripe was swiped at Chuck Berry in his day, back in the Fifites. And guess whose realism is still going strong, and he and it to be in their Eighties, only the slim limbed one from St.Louis, Missouri in his green velvet shirt and tight orange pants. That’s whoo-ey.
-It was a teenage wedding and the old folks wished them well
You could tell that Peader did trully love his mademesolle.
The great crime of Chuck Berry, like the similarly titled and minded, Chuckyheads was his insistence on tapping into the reality of life. A crime for which neither has been forgiven by the grim Primerati::
-They furnished off the apartment with a two-room Roebuck sale
Their Coolerator was crammed with TV dinners and Ginger Ale.
So, what will be result of this exposure of the electorate to the ‘pointless stuff’ of the Social Media?
Chucky ar La?
You never can tell.
As ever, brilliant, Perkin! I have that very C Berry number on my running playlist. And I love your translation of Pierre…I haven’t read that condemnation of all things social media, but I did see the headline somewhere in my online ramblings. May have to follow it up.
That you are a connoisseur of exquisite musical taste, Esteemed Blogmeister, comes as no shock.
No doubt you are as equally appreciative of ole Chuckie’s refined mastery of the Dismal Science. He is the ultimate minimalist when it comes to harvesting the shekels.
His touring policy consists of one man, one guitar: Charles Edward Anderson Berry and his trusty hot-rod red Gibson guitar. This instrument is truly one with knobs on: four in fact. Two knobs for volume, two for tone.
For a back-up band his policy is to do as the roamers do: he hires locally and pays the union rates. His one stipulation is that the local hire-ees can actually play music and most importantly, can play the score of the score or so of his songs he supplies them with in advance. The way he wants them to play.
Once had the gladness of seeing flashy CB in the flesh down at Dublin’s best concert venue, the National Boxing Stadium on the South Circular Road. What a, erm, knock out performer. The venue was just dandy: he performed with the nimbleness of a Michael Conlan and the crafty power of a Joe Ward.
Compare and contrast Chuck B’s slimmed down touring policy with that of a certain (gulp) musical group from Dublin, Ireland. Who wouldn’t dream of travelling from Stadium Venue to Stadium Venue without hauling their paraphernalia in at least 27 eighteen wheelers.
The word combo of ratio, talent, size and inverse comes to mind.
One wonders if this disser supreme of the Dismal Science could be yet inveigled to take over the Department of Finance in Dublin? The first step would be to make Chuck Berry the last recipient of The Certificate of Irish Heritage which is due to be discontinued (due to lack of interest) next Monday, August 24th.
Let it go out in a blaze of glory with a ceremonial presentation of the Final Cert to Cathal Mac Caor whose paternal ancestor indubitably hailed from (gulp) Moneygall,.
Certainly if Perkie’s inner genealogist is any judge: there is a souped up jitney, a cherry red ’53 parked in the forecourt of the Barack Obama Plaza in that County Offaly city. That would be 1853 (for the pedants out there).
There are no shortage of berries (to this day) in the Faithful County.
It is not too late for Chuck the Minimalist to inculcate a little discipline into the Free Southern Stateen’s finances. A sprightly 88 (unlike other 88 year olds who can only manage an incoherent three line snarl in the letters page of The Unionist Times – see today’s page, in the front seat specially reserved for VIP OAP’s) Cathal Mac Caor is still performing.
One can still catch him the first Wednesday of every month at The Blueberry Inn in the Loop of his native St. Louis (with an s).
The Dail could do with a little of his Ding a Ling on Budget Day.
The main problem is that very many people simply don’t care and have no interest in politics what so ever.
How many would watch programmes such as Newsnight, Primetime, Channel 4 news, Vincent Browne etc as opposed to so called “reality” TV or how many read a serious paper.
Yes they can be engaged on single issues such as the marriage referendum, but the day to day issues such as jobs, health, education and even big issues such as Irish Unity simply do not motivate them to get off their arse to vote.
They blame politicians quickly enough but fail to live up to their own responsibilities by playing a part in the process either as a voter or putting themselves forward as a candidate.
We have too many people who prefer to curse the darkness rather than light a candle.
looks like you be getting another chance to vote,cameron supposed to be bringing the out of europe vote forward,that will get the voters out in droves in england i presume.be good craic.
I wonder if that’s an attempt to influence Labour leadership contest…
I expect that when democracy finally and for the first time kicked in for the Nationalist people, that many may feel that the battle has been won. MMcG in Stormont & others is something only dreamed off by previous generations & to realize this dream after bloody conflict may be enough for some. Not for me, I might add. However, what has happened since, is that The Unionists are unwilling to compromise on the time of day thereby thwarting progress in day to day events. Frustration leads to apathy all around. The people need to see that the GFA is a work in progress with something for everybody & politicians not be allowed to procrastinate again & again.
Jude, getting our youth interested in politics through social media (how come nobody’s suggesting social intercourse?) is a good idea, but do you have any idea how fast these kids are with the ‘unfriend’ button?
Emmett makes the point ….”I think it is a healthy thing when apathetic or ignorant people don’t vote, I wouldn’t want them having a say on my future.” ..That’s a fair enough point….up to a point …{if you will!}. The thing is , you could argue equally that a lot of ignorant and apathetic voters already have a very big say in our futures.They vote regularly are the ones who vote in the people we don’t want in the first place !!
I’d still go for compulsory voting …even though it might result in spoiled votes. The very fact of it being a compusory issue might encourage greater education. That would have to be part of the deal. When you think about it , politics should be taught at school with language and mathematics…So people might be encouraged to have an interest in politics in the first place. …and the people who control their destiny.I would imagine those people who do not vote do so out of a feeling of powerlessness.In other words ..”What difference can i possibly make in all of this?” or …”This is a game that really doesn’t concern me at all”…or “They ‘re all just the same “. …playing a game for themselves, just to hear themselves talk…..Just actors on astage playing the same part every time. I think Labour lost the plot and disenfranchised their natural audience, leaving many people with no one to really represent what they actually wanted.
That’s why i’m glad to see a conviction politician like Jeremy Corbyn shaking things up.He may not become leader .He may screw things up for the Labour Party.He may start his own party eventually . …..If for no other reason than he’s making the”game” interesting again in much the same way that John mcEnroe enlivened the stagnant tennis scene. He’s showing that there actually night be some light between the Tories and Labour ….a different sort of light for a change. I think a lot of people want to see that ..
paddy and Emmett
Surely those who do not vote already have a say in our future, since by not voting they are influencing, quite significantly, the outcome of the election.
How much more beneficial would it be if they all voted ‘none of the above’.
No party could claim a mandate in such a circumstance.
I think one of the main reasons why people don’t vote is the fact the vast majority couldn’t be bothered going out to a polling station. Laziness in other words. But you have to see it from their point of view: many work, have kids to look after or other responsibilities, have bills to pay, have medical problems to live with, etc The last thing on their minds is who their next MP/MLA is going to be. Yes that’s important but many don’t realize its importance. Many would rather sit down and catch up on EastEnders or some other soap than take the time to go out and cast their vote.
Maybe voting should be done in some other way? Online perhaps? Yes I know there’s the risk of hacking or other electoral fraud being committed but don’t the vast majority of us put our hard earned money at risk by buying stuff or transferring cash online? I receive my telephone/internet bills through e-mail and pay online every month, its done completely online. I have bought hundreds of items from Amazon.co.uk and have my debit card details stored on my account. But there’s security software that protects my details and stops hacking, so why cant the same be done for voting? I would say the amount of people opting to vote would increase dramatically if the option was there to vote online, especially when the No.1 topic on social media, like twitter, facebook, etc is voting when its election time.
Social media is a powerful tool and its extremely easy to connect with politicians, celebrities, etc Sinn Fein and SDLP representatives should make full use of it by having a twitter account/facebook account, engaging with people in debate and answering their enquiries. I would actually recommend it be policy within the SDLP/SF for their elected members to have twitter accounts and to engage with the electorate. This shows that politicians are there engaging with people and their issues, that’s what their job is all about.
SDLP/SF should also do surveys in areas they represent on what topics is most important to people. The Economy? The Health Service? Welfare Cuts? a United Ireland? Nationalist co-operation? etc How can you engage with people if you don’t know what topics is most important to them? And most importantly how can you convince them to come out and cast their vote if your not even addressing their core issues? You obviously have to find out what their chief concerns are in our society and then work from there.
I like the idea of online voting but the down side is that it will appeal to the younger voter,more likely to vote with a leftish slant.
The older, more conservative voter, will not take to voting online so the process would be seen to be skewed against our current masters who now have the system manipulated very much in their favour with backing from large corporations and rabid right wing media who with their overpaid PR advisors are very good at buying government favours.
But we never know until it is tried, politics is full of surprises and currently none more so than the rise and rise of Jeremy Corbyn whose only saving grace is that he is not corrupt and has the establishment panicking because he threatens to shine a light on the shadier dealings in politics.
Pia – I agree the oldies (or some of them) might hang back from online voting. But I’ve entered to run in the Waterside/Derry Half-Marathon in early September (of which more later. MUCH more). I could have entered by post but I chose to enter online. Surely the powers-that-be could set up a similar voting system?