It’s not often I give a pat on the back to the Belfast Telegraph for its coverage of events here, but I’m happy to do that today. In yesterday’s paper they reported on the nightmare that was the Kingsmill massacre in 1976, when ten innocent workmen were killed by the IRA because they were Protestant. In the course of the report, the Telegraph gives two lines to events preceding that foul deed:
“The Kingsmill shootings happened a day after the Glenanne Gang, a notorious loyalist murder squad, gunned down six Catholics from two families during a killing spree in Co Armagh.”
Before anyone starts shouting about whataboutery, save your breath. This is about providing a wider context – all of twenty-four hours – for the slaughter of the Protestant workmen. At one point in the report, the sole survivor of Kingsmill says “I want to know why it was done”. The answer seems fairly obvious: the people who gunned down the workmen were doing so in revenge for the killing of six innocent Catholics the day before. It was a classic case of tit-for-tat killing, except that at Kingsmill the IRA almost doubled the numbers of Catholics killed a short time earlier. I would hazard a guess that those who killed at Kingsmill had two motives: a desire for revenge and as a warning for those who’d be planning further killings of Catholics .
The fact that this merciless logic was probably pointless as well as heartless is obvious. The Glenanne gang – not simply a loyalist grouping, as the Bel Tel suggests, but one manipulated by British security – went on killing after Kingsmill. Nor do the deaths of the six Catholics in any way justify the slaughter of innocent Protestants – it simply repeats the crime that’s being reacted to on a bigger scale.
When we remember the Kingsmill massacre we should remember the six innocent of the Reavey and O’Dowd families who were killed the day before. Both attacks were equally putrid, the only difference being that of scale and the fact that British agents were involved in the killing of the Reavey and O’Dowd family members but weren’t (as far as we know) in the Kingsmill slaughter.
Well put Jude
So if the UVF kill catholics then it is ok for the IRA to kill protestants in revenge and you said Republicans were not sectarian at least we have nailed that lie now.
neill, neill – and you talk about being mean-spirited. The whole point of my blog was that both killings were sectarian and horrible. And yes, the IRA acted in a sectarian manner when they killed those innocent people. And they were guilty of other sectarian acts as well. But I don’t believe that the great majority of violent acts they were responsible for were sectarian. I can’t change your mind if you decide you want to see them as 100% sectarian, but I’d thank you not to come out with ‘ if the UVF kill catholics then it is ok for the IRA to kill protestants in revenge’ when I said the exact opposite.
You said it Jude not I!
Neill, it’s getting to the point that I can actually guess what your comment is going to be before I even read it. You really need to catch yourself on because no where, NO WHERE, on Judes blog does he even attempt to justify Kingsmills, in fact he does the exact opposite but as usual with you Neill, you only see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear.
I notice you don’t even mention the murders of the Reavey and O’Dowd families. Not to mention the numerous other sectarian murders that this particular loyalist gang carried out with the help of the British Government (You know the same one that hands out MBE’s?….) and consisted of RUC and UDR members, groups I’m certain you would regard as “brave” or “Honourable”.
The impression I get off Unionists like you Neill and I’m really trying hard not to tar all Unionists with the same brush but its actually difficult because the evidence says otherwise but the impression I get is that a Protestant life is some sort of “sacred cow” or of more value than a Catholic life. Of course the Unionist government which ran a sectarian state and practiced mass discrimination against Catholics (and I haven’t seen you once condemn them for that Neill) thought exactly that, they didn’t call it “a Protestant State for a Protestant people” for nothing.
Kingsmills was a terrible event, there’s no doubt about that. The Glenanne gang, not the IRA, were carrying out similar events repeatedly with the help of the RUC/UDR in that area against innocent Catholics. The local IRA men had had enough and under a cover name carried out Kingsmills in order to get revenge and to give a warning to the UVF/Glenanne Gang. That’s not justifying it Neill, that’s just fact. If the UVF weren’t on a sectarian murder spree with the help of the British Government the likes of Kingsmills would never have happened.
Interestingly, and this is an allegation put forward by certain people (one is an author, I believe), Willie Frazer, you know that “victims” campaigner who had “plenty of time for Billy Wright” and who the Garda said was in the terrorist Red Hand Commando, his father allegedly was a member of the Glenanne gang, he was certainly based in the local UDR barracks where the Glenanne gang operated out of.
So it wouldn’t be a surprise to me if in the future it was revealed that the father of the man who currently represents most of the Kingsmills victims families was part of the gang responsible for the events that lead directly to Kingsmills happening if the allegations are true. And why would it be a surprise? Sure Willie even has the Dublin/Monaghan bomber Robert McConnell listed as a “victim” in his “victims” organisation….
Ryan I won’t take any lectures from somebody who openly supported the IRA.
You are trying to justify it I also noticed how you tried to diminish the IRAs role in it still that happens when you’re a fan of paramilitaries
You wont be taking lectures from me? but you come on this blog expecting me and other nationalists to take lectures from the likes of you and political Unionism? Given Unionists track record and history, I don’t think I will. The truth hurts, I think that’s what your problem is Neill. Your on here bashing the IRA and give the odd token condemnations of the UVF/UDA (but none of the UDR/RUC/British Government who ran the loyalist paramilitaries) but we all know many people like you, at the very least, have this attitude that said “they didn’t get hit for nothing” whenever the UVF/UDA/British Army murdered Catholic civilians or were supportive of the discrimination and sectarian policies of Unionist Stormont.
Are you going to address any of the points I made Neill? Are you going to address the sectarian state Unionism ran? the systematic collusion the British Government was engaged in? the Glenanne gang made up of UDR/RUC/UVF men who went on multiple sectarian murder sprees each of which could rival or beat that of Kingsmills? the fact Ian Paisley, founder of the DUP, influenced and wound up so many young men/women to join terrorist groups and murder Catholics? No?…..or is your logic just the IRA appeared out of no where and started a campaign to rid this part of Ireland of the British Government for a laugh? “its all them’uns fault and da IRA”?
You must be related to Willie Frazer one way or another Neill, you have got to be, you have his unique streak of downright hypocrisy and ignorance.
As George Galloway finely put it about the DUP:
“The DUP lecturing others is like the Hutchback of Notre Dame telling others to sit up straight”
To listen to to some commentators you’d think that Kingsmill happened in complete isolation. In fact you’d be given to believe there was only one protagonist in the whole troubled period. Sadly its this blinkered attitude that tends to prolong animosity, a breath of fresh air therefore to hear the bel tel finally put something into context. Good highlighting Jude.
Whatever the facts I think it is important we don’t assert things that cannot be evidenced otherwise we are descending into the politics of the last atrocity & vacuous speculation and ‘whataboutery’ that leads as always nowhere. There is suspicion that the IRA planned Kingsmill well before the Whitecross massacre.
For me one of the most moving & significant aspects of the whole awful business of both massacres is Alan Black relating the support he got from a Catholic priest in hospital reported in Suzanne Breen piece in the Belfast Tele on 2 Jan:
‘In Newry’s Daisy Hill hospital, a Catholic priest, Fr Henry Devlin, was waiting. Alan says: “He asked me my religion and if I wanted the last rites. I told him I didn’t as I was a Protestant, but I asked him not to leave me.
“He took my hand and held it all the way to the operating theatre. He visited me every day until I left hospital.”
That for me it is more important to report this than who did what to who and when and why. It shows that in the midst of the terrible hatred and violence that existed in 1976, the Irish of whatever religion still had the capacity to reach out to each other because we are and always have been a decent, kind and loving people in spite of what some may do in our name.
The Kingsmill massacre was as Jude has said an utterly heinous and indefensible deed and one of many bloody stains on the Provisional IRA. The killing of innocents by the security.forces in no way justified the slaughter of others who were equally innocent and who,thinking this was a Loyalist ambush,sought to protect the sole Catholic in their midst. Now is now time for the IRA to apologise unreservedly for this and other grossly sectarian actions they carried out. The IRA campaign may not have been sectarian in intent but it often was in practice. It is hypocritical for republicans to demand that the Brits come clean if they hide the truth. As regards the possible involvement of security forces in the massacre one the sole survivor Alan Black said the ‘officer’ who delivered the coup de grace’ spoke with an English accent.Alan is convinced British Intelligence was involved despite pressure on him to state otherwise.
A.very.moving.story.cushy..
It should be noted that this wasn’t an IRA action. It was carried out during a ceasefire that loyalists where trying desperately to coax the IRA into retaliation. A small group within the organisation eventually broke ranks and carried out this horrible act after weeks of provocation (the murder of the family the day before was the trigger but I think they were about 30 Catholics killed in the weeks leading up to this). I don’t see any point in even reviewing this horrible day unless the British will be honest and disclose information.
Emmet
So it wasn’t the I R A which carried out the massacre ?!!Talk about revisionism!!Jude in his main blog attributes the murders to the I R A.What is your evidence to the contrary?
Well actually – if I could interject – I said it was the IRA because I knew if I said it was another group I’d be accused of trying to weasel responsibility away from them. In fact the group that claimed responsibility called themselves the South Armagh Action Army or some such. But it seems reasonable to say that they were from the IRA – whether that was sanctioned at the top I don’t know. I don’t think it’s the issue in any case.
Ok Argenta where is your evidence it was the IRA? My evidence is the fact it wasn’t claimed by the IRA. It wasn’t in character. The IRA leadership were trying to find out what actually happened for weeks afterwards. The only survivor says the man giving the orders had an English accent. Republicans from the area who were active didn’t know who was involved but felt some young inexperienced volunteers were taken in by some unknown outsider (there has been speculation this was the decorated Nairac although I don’t know what to think). Now Argenta can you offer your evidence now? As I said I have no real interest in investigating conspiracy theories I admit the Brits have the upper hand when it comes to information and black ops. They are still actively controlling the flow of information.
Emmet
I think Jude has answered the question posed to you with less of the invective in your response.
Argenta, you have accused me of revisionism. I merely repeated well known facts from the time, no revision required the IRA have always denied involvement. Now please offer your evidence?
Argenta, if you are accusing Emmet of “revisionism” then you will also be accusing the sole survivor of Kingsmills, Alan Black, of revisionism too because he himself believes the British Government had some involvement in the massacre. Mr Black said that one of the gunmen that spoke had an English accent. The IRA themselves have repeatedly denied involvement in Kingsmills and from what I read it wasn’t sanctioned from the leadership. It was claimed by South Armagh Republican Action Group that stated it was in retaliation for the UVF murders of Catholics and demanded Loyalists halted their sectarian murder sprees.
The Kingsmills victims families (along with survivor Mr Black) have been campaigning for Justice and Truth for many years (as have the O’Dowd and Reavey families) only to get no where, and apparently files relating to Kingsmills held by the British Government have gone “missing” or are “lost”. One excuse for failing to produce files relating to the massacre was that some files were “destroyed in a fire”.
What next? Files were struck by lightning? Swept away in a flood? ate by the dog?
Republicans don’t say “Collusion is no illusion” for nothing and it applies to everyone, including Protestants.
Don’t forget all those files disposed of due to ‘contamination from asbestos’ in gough barracks. No laughing at the back please!
Anyone really interested in the atrocity should read up on Robert Nairac. Again no point trying to uncover the truth, Britain will just point the blame at republicans, probably the ones that come out and tell the truth. There needs to be an transparent process involving Britain, I don’t believe the British have ever been willing to deal with the truth.
I remember these events as a schoolboy, walking from school with a Protestant class mate, we would discuss which side would get it tonight, it was a brutal time and God forbid we ever return to anything like it. May they all rest in peace.
It was a despicable act and definitely marked a very dark time for people here and I agree with Emmet it would benefit everyone here if we could have the truth about what happened during the troubles.
The reference to the Glennane Gang by the Belfast Telegraph, Esteemed Blogmeister, is not without interest to some amongst us briary contrarians down here on Liffeyside.
In recent times there has been a rather odd ramping up of references by the embedded media to atrocities of a particular stripe committed during the Dirty 30 Years war. It may even have something to do with the run up to the General Election.
The puppeteers behind the irony curtain are cute hoorish enough to assume that their customers are sufficiently boorish to lap it all up with their morning milk. Thus, a diet of Republican serial killers and bowls of breakfast cereal are the order of the early day.
That there is a strict embargo on references to the Glenanne Gang in effect is a distinct possibility bordering perhaps on the probable itself. Try a vox pop on the streets of the happy capital and the odds are that far more passers by will assume that ‘Glenanne’ refers to the sports club in Dublin which caters for the jolly hockey stick class of large-thighed lass.
That these odds are passing odd is for the following reason: during the post-Maxwell Massacre era of the 20th century the most lethal destruction visited upon Dublin was by (a) the Luftwaffe which obliterated 28 Dubliners on May 31, 1941 with four bombs; and by (b) the Double G which deleted 27 Dubliners on May 17, 1974 with three bombs.
Glenannaversary
Down Dublin way silence holds sway
Much as Herman’s Hermits might say:
There’s a kinda hush
All over that ambush
Executed by the farmed wing of the B.A.
I know it’s a sombre subject, Perkin, but I can’t help plucking out and holding up “the jolly hockey stick class of large-thighed lass”! Oh be still, my beating heart…
This blog needs to be read in the context of the manner in which the state reacted to Civil Rights demands in 1968.The state reacted with internment and torture. Alfred Denning got it right in 1980. As Master of the Rolls he threw out a civil action by the Birmingham Six against West Midlands Police and remarked that to accept their case that police officers had lied about their confessions and beaten them would have opened up “an appalling vista”. The appalling vista began in 1968 with partial policing and administration of justice.
After Bloody Sunday in Derry, Brian Faulkner remained adamant about the need for internment without trial. He also rejected proportional representation and Stormont was prorogued by Ted Heath in March 1972. Law and order would become the sole responsibility of the British Government.
The British Government adopted a security response to deal with social and economic deprivation and it had no qualms about using local militias to execute a dirty war in Ireland. The appalling vista which commenced in 1968 was nurtured by state terrorism and contempt for Human Rights. The British Government will remain in the International Dock as long as it attempts to hide its dirty hands behind behind a veil marked, National Security.
I like this “I’m not trying to justify X but it happened because Y” device. Very useful.
What I know is that if I was fighting a non-sectarian war against military targets and my superiors told me to go and find twelve catholics or protestants to kill within twenty four hours as a spontaneous act of vengeance for other murders which happened just today I think I’d struggle to be able to identify the make model and license number of a van carrying a dozen who I’d know would be unarmed, defenceless and easy pickings. Especially if I also had to collect weapons and round up my lynch mob at the same time. If the IRA didn’t already have a list of their preferred civilian protestant targets and they weren’t just waiting for their excuse then they must be very well organised and fast on their feet.
Of course, Alan Black, the solitary surviving member of the attack, alleged that at least one state agent/security force informer was involved in Kingsmill: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/17/northern-ireland-ira-informers-kingsmill-murder-alan-black-survivor
The allegation was also mentioned around the 12m30s mark in Darragh McIntyre’s ‘Panorama’ insight into collusion last May. That programme is still available to watch here in BBC iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05x8gzs/panorama-britains-secret-terror-deals
What the foundation of Black’s belief is, other than a suspicion that the state/security forces are protecting the identity of an agent/informer, I amn’t certain, but it’s rather ominous; if true, essentially the state was helping to play two sets of pawns off against one another? Well, actually, that’s just an extreme and bloody means of effecting divide-and-rule, a crude policy which Britain utilised so frequently around the empire in furtherance of its interests and to extend its power and influence after first perfecting its use in Ireland in the 1600-1700s, so perhaps it wouldn’t be all that surprising.
According to Susan Mc Kay’s article in today’s Irish Times,the Historical Enquiries Team found “the Provisional I R A were behind the atrocity” She also notes that the Attorney General has ordered a fresh inquest which will be held this year.Perhaps some definitive answers will emerge from those proceedings but let’s not hold our breath!A lot of posters here seem more than keen to distance the I R A from culpability .
And vice versa of course, Argie – wouldn’t you say?
Argenta,
From my limited understanding of the events, the IRA were definitely involved in terms of it being their membership and their weapons that were involved.
Where the confusion lies, is the fact that the event was in direct retaliation for prior events carried out by the glenanne gang during a ceasefire who were directly linked to british intelligence and in the circumstances, the police believe SAS (Nairac) was involved with a desire to not only break the ceasefire but escalate things to get more SAS involvement in particular in South Armagh. From what I have read about the man, I believe he was sufficiently insane enough to have taken this on his own shoulders.
Further more, the IRA were infiltrated to a high enough level in South Armagh to be able to carry out the kingsmill attack, without the approval of overall command. The same british sources that led to the catholic murders is directly linked to the kingsmill murders.
While a police station was minutes away, the response time was so unusually slow, to suggest that the police in the area were not aware something was happening involving British state activities and were ordered to keep out of it is ludicrous.
Even the sole survivor believes this. Who am I to disagree.
I would say the most accurate description of events in my opinion only was that both sides were manipulated by Nairac and his state forces allies, into getting both sides to commit intentionally terrible atrocities with the aim of bringing in higher levels of SAS which it succeeded in doing. This is not atypical of conflict however but the harsh reality. It may be more obvious when it is on your own doorstep, but the people of the middle east still suffer from such British state activities.
Jessica
You say that the ” I R A in South Armagh were infiltrated to a high enough level”..Given the reputation of the I R A in that area,does that not seem unlikely?Presume you have evidence of this ” infiltration”?
“You say that the ” I R A in South Armagh were infiltrated to a high enough level”..Given the reputation of the I R A in that area,does that not seem unlikely?Presume you have evidence of this ” infiltration”?”
I suggest you read up on Robert Nairac, Argenta
Though I imagine you are well aware of him already.
When an agent is operating in an area the ‘security forces’ are not allowed near the area that has been quarantined. This was very common and the RUC and Army obeyed without question. Very slow response times usually indicated a state agent was involved.
Argenta
I think on the principle of Occam’s razor the theory that the IRA were responsible is the most obvious explanation.
Apart from Alan Black’s memory of an English accent there does not seem to be any hard evidence for another theory.
Maybe it says more about us in the end.
Those who believe the IRA were brave freedom fighters are keen to absolve them of incidents like this, while those who see them as brutal murderers have no difficulty accepting they did this.
Whatever the truth it was a horrific part of a futile conflict.
“Those who believe the IRA were brave freedom fighters are keen to absolve them of incidents like this, while those who see them as brutal murderers have no difficulty accepting they did this.
Whatever the truth it was a horrific part of a futile conflict.”
On that I fully agree with you gio.
Any investigation into this will prove it was not a conflict of loyalist versus republicans but that the worst atrocities had the direct involvement of the state forces at their core.
In light of such atrocities, British rule in Ireland will never be acceptable.
Gio
Indeed.Couldnt agree more.The majority of posters on this blog are quite clear that they were “brave freedom fighters”!
If there was a sectarian element operating from within the IRA then they would have carried out many more atrocities. Within 12 months Nairac was dead and there were no incidents again on this scale. If the IRA wanted to kill innocent Protestants they simply would have planted no warning bombs in loyalist areas without risking the lives of their own volunteers. To argue the IRA were motivated by a hatred of Protestants is ridiculous.
Of course the IRA were not sectarian they were peace loving liberals all along.
The IRA tried to distance itself from the atrocity also so don’t be surprised if others do so also. Argenta I asked you for evidence of IRA responsibility for the act but all you can offer is Susan Mc Kay said so. Now your accusation that I am revising history makes you look a bit silly. Please don’t challenge people for evidence while you yourself have put no thought into an issue and have not shred of evidence. As I have already said I am not interested in an a historical enquiry unless the Brits are going to be honest. They won’t they have already stuck their fingers up at the survivor by destroying all the files, and the main players are all dead. The Brits could make it look like the Pope was responsible if they wanted.
Emmet
You really will have to stop flailing around in your attempts to exonerate the I R A from the atrocity.
1—–Jude (5/1//16–4-43pm) says “It seems reasonable to say that they were from the I R A(whether that was sanctioned at the top,I don’t know”
2—-Susan Mc Kay herself did not attribute responsibility to the I R A.She stated as an objective fact that the H E T team found that the Provisional I R A were behind the atrocity.
Argenta, you still offer no evidence apart from somebody else said so. I offered some evidence at least therefore I’d say that you seem more like you are flailing around. Let’s assume for a minute that several locals did break ranks without any manipulation by the Brits an carried out this as an act of revenge, would this make the IRA responsible? I think not or the British army would be responsible for rape (I remember protests in Cyprus about locals being raped by British squaddies). The HET team didn’t have access to British files nor did they talk to anyone involved. It is an was narrative to accept and it brings closure to those not directly involved however it ignores the facts. If you want to knock the IRA for atrocities there are some that I would say are indefensible, however this is not one you can attribute to the IRA as an organisation.
Should say ‘it was an easy narrative to accept’