I recently put up a guest blog by a man called David Hawkes. It was titled ‘Diminishing Returns’ and it dealt with the devaluing of intellectual contribution to national and international debate, and the rise to dominance of material and economic concerns. Its central point is summed up in a comment made by one of Hawkes’s students: “I can’t believe Keats gave up being a doctor to become a poet“. Just one person – PF I think – commented on the article, expressing his approval that it moved beyond the local and parochial, unlike the great majority of blogs on this site.
PF (yes Virginia, It was him, I’ve checked) was right: overwhelmingly the topics considered here are focused on issues relating to this little corner of Ireland. But then it’s not unique in that respect. There’s a site, nuzhound.com, which collects each day articles from near and far about Ireland. If these weren’t of interest the site would die. And certainly the most-read blogs on this site have all been firmly local/parochial. Why is that?
Well, you might conclude we’re a narrow, blinkered people who can’t see beyond their parish boundaries. And there may be some truth in that. Equally it might be said that while we’re provincial,we have a lot to be provincial about. There is one core issue here which divides us: the constitutional question. Everything else must find its place behind that question. Those who argue for Irish reunification and independence point to the fact that the Irish people have been denied that which is taken as a given by most other countries: the right to run their own affairs. That, on a bigger scale, was what the Brexit vote was about. Those who argue for maintenance of the union with Britain point to the fact that the Irish people in 1998 voted in favour of the status quo, with no change until the Irish people voted otherwise.
Meanwhile, we discuss the issue endlessly. If you look at the comments on this site, you’ll see people defending their corner with gusto and occasional style. What you won’t see are people reflecting on their position and wondering if it makes sense in every respect, or must it be maintained in its original form.
Ironically, it was only when our Troubles were internationalised that peace came dropping slow. Without the support of the US and the EU, it’s doubtful if we’d have the relative peace we now have. Are we using that time to find ways of resolving the central issue that divides us? Or do we say “Don’t bring that boring old chestnut to the table – concentrate on bread-and-butters issues”. It’s undeniable that little time is spent on the former and a great deal of time pretending to be concerned with the latter.
So PF is indeed right. We do focus on the local, and all politics are ultimately local. The real tragedy is that we focus on local things in a repetitive rather than a reflective way, in trumpeting out our approval of one view of the union at the expensive of the other.
I think it makes sense to focus on our local concerns, since those concerns are core to how political life here is organised. I think it makes little sense to continue schoolyard verbal abuse or to keep repeating a particular line, without occasionally stepping out of your labelled box and coming at the matter from a fresh perspective. I’m not even claiming that such a fresh perspective would lead to the bridging of the chasm that divides us. But it might be a start. And we really do have to start somewhere.
Maybe Brexit will be the hand-grenade that forces us to think afresh.
“Without the support of the US and the EU, it’s doubtful if we’d have the relative peace we now have.”
Do explain.
Belfast Telegraph, 22 Feb 2016:
“Europe has paid £1.3 billion euro since 1995 to support peace in Northern Ireland and the border counties in the Republic of Ireland through PEACE and Interreg programmes.”
The Economist, 19 March 1998:
“There was a time when the very idea of American involvement in the affairs of Northern Ireland caused near apoplexy in the British government, and among the province’s unionists. When Gerry Adams, the leader of Sinn Fein, the IRA’s political wing, was first given a visa to visit the United States in 1994, the American ambassador to London was called into 10 Downing Street for a dressing down. British newspapers thundered about American betrayal and naivety. Yet, four years on, the British are perfectly happy to join in the St Patrick’s day bash. Even more remarkably, Mr Adams was invited to a lunch at the British embassy in Washington.”
And wasn’t there a guy called George Mitchell got involved some way or another? Surprised a well-informed man like yourself doesn’t know these things,MT…
“Belfast Telegraph, 22 Feb 2016: “Europe has paid £1.3 billion euro since 1995 to support peace in Northern Ireland and the border counties in the Republic of Ireland through PEACE and Interreg programmes.””
You’re suggesting that without the EU peace funds the Provos and loyalists would have returned to “war”?
“The Economist, 19 March 1998: “There was a time when the very idea of American involvement in the affairs of Northern Ireland caused near apoplexy in the British government, and among the province’s unionists. When Gerry Adams, the leader of Sinn Fein, the IRA’s political wing, was first given a visa to visit the United States in 1994, the American ambassador to London was called into 10 Downing Street for a dressing down. British newspapers thundered about American betrayal and naivety. Yet, four years on, the British are perfectly happy to join in the St Patrick’s day bash. Even more remarkably, Mr Adams was invited to a lunch at the British embassy in Washington.” And wasn’t there a guy called George Mitchell got involved some way or another? Surprised a well-informed man like yourself doesn’t know these things,MT…”
So you’re suggesting that without Adams’ visa in 1994 the Provos wouldn’t have called their ceasefire? And/or that if a non-American had chaired the GFA negotiations the Provos and/or loyalists would have ended their ceasefires?
That seems rather implausible.
Maybe stop digging, MT…
“Maybe stop digging, MT…”
???
“You’re suggesting that without the EU peace funds the Provos and loyalists would have returned to “war”?”
Jude can only speak for himself MT but if that is what he is saying then I would 100% agree with him. Surely you don’t think the provos and loyalists put down their weapons for “peace”, do you?? Surely you don’t think John Major re-admitted SF to talks in 1996 because he cared about little old me or you? Or did the fact the IRA was causing billions of pounds worth of damage to the British economy/banks play a part in letting SF back into talks? Bombing british banks really did hit a very sensitive nerve…..even the newspapers at the time were saying John Major was “bombed to the table”.
The reality is MT, its money keeping both sides at bay, Loyalist and Republican. Did you watch Spotlight NI last night? watch it on BBC iplayer and watch how the UDA is getting cash not to rock the boat. Indeed even the DUP are helping UDA linked groups get grants. I thought Jude’s blog today would’ve been about spotlight but he’s the blog master.
What does Westminster gain out of all this? Well no more bombings in Britain and getting those two troublesome tribes out of their hair.
“So you’re suggesting that without Adams’ visa in 1994 the Provos wouldn’t have called their ceasefire? And/or that if a non-American had chaired the GFA negotiations the Provos and/or loyalists would have ended their ceasefires?
That seems rather implausible”
You have a lot to learn MT…..there’s so much you don’t know, even I’m surprised at your lack of knowledge on this matter….
I smiled to myself at your vain attempt to raise us out of the mud, Jude. Laudable but l’m afraid you have your work cut out for you. If you cast a glance on that other site, no matter what topic is started it all comes down to us and them. The more confrontational it is the better we like it. Anyway it’s interesting to come into keyboard contact with the other side and hear their opinions even if there is a whiff of trolling. Some of us need pulled up now and again. They must enjoy it too so long may it and your patience last. Don’t give up on us, baby.
I’ll try not to, fiosrach sweetie – although it gets more and more tempting. I keep hearing George Bernard Shaw: “I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.”
Does MT really need or deserve an explanation? He is usually adamant on his thoughts. If the peace had been left to Unionists and Brits we would still be at war!!!!
“Does MT really need or deserve an explanation? He is usually adamant on his thoughts. If the peace had been left to Unionists and Brits we would still be at war!!!!:
I’m afraid that doesn’t even come close to explaining how ‘relative peace’ is dependent on US and EU support. I take it you don’t know the answer?
I’d like to say that although most of it comes down to the localised squabble, I like to think that there are plenty out there who enjoy a broader more universal brush applied now and then ,which is why i like to mix it up a bit in my various pieces. I’ve got to say , though, that there’s always a bigger response when that old bell is rung and the tribes begin to tussle and fight their “traditional” corner….whether or not they know their history or not.There’s never the same input when I write about bees, atheism or stories of a wider cultural nature.
When Albert Reynolds urged President Clinton to overrule the State Department and give
Irish Passport-Holder Gerry Adams a US Visa, Simon Jenkins, ex-Editor of THE TIMES of London, betook himself to Washington and told lies to White House staff so that they’d press
Clinton to deny the Taoiseach’s request and scuttle the peace process.
Jenkins stupidly boasted about his lying some years later in THE TIMES.
If MT had been paying attention to my Blogs he’d know this. I’m not going to repeat them now
but they are on record.
Are you also saying that if Adams hadn’t got a visa the Provos would have continued their terror campaign?
I sometimes wonder where MT is getting his history or better still, how much of the years between 1968 and 1992 he lived through . He shows a wilful naievity as to how political deals are actually done. There’s always a price to be paid in any deal.It is surely not an unknown quantity that both America and the EU acted both as neutral referees and as background bankers and pilots to steer a course through to the final settlement that brought about an end to the day -to -day violence. I know unionism generally had to be dragged to the table , but that has always been the case with unionism.They’d generally rather huff than make a pragmatic deal about anything..To hear MT tell it the Republicans and the Loyalists just sat down at the table and hammered out a deal. It took a lot more than that .Just as the EU pumped money into Wales , it did similarly here. Take a look around at the parks and buildings the EU sponsored .There’s usually a little plaque somewhere to the effect that EU money was involved .What does MT think President Clinton was doing here? Simple sightseeing or working politics with the huge Irish diaspora worldwide? ? Some people seem to either have no knowledge or no memory of how this juggernaut ground to a halt after thirty years of bloody mayhem …and just how easily it could start up again if the timing happened to be right..
“He shows a wilful naievity as to how political deals are actually done.”
I haven’t shown any naivety, wilful or otherwise.
“It is surely not an unknown quantity that both America and the EU acted both as neutral referees and as background bankers and pilots to steer a course through to the final settlement that brought about an end to the day -to -day violence.”
So you’re saying that without the EU and US in the background the Provos wouldn’t have sought a way out of the conflict?
“To hear MT tell it the Republicans and the Loyalists just sat down at the table and hammered out a deal.”
When did I say that?
“It took a lot more than that .Just as the EU pumped money into Wales , it did similarly here. Take a look around at the parks and buildings the EU sponsored .There’s usually a little plaque somewhere to the effect that EU money was involved ”
Nobody is disputing that the EU has funded projects in Northern Ireland.
Are you saying that without such finding the Provos and/or loyalists would have returned to ” war “?
“What does MT think President Clinton was doing here? Simple sightseeing or working politics with the huge Irish diaspora worldwide? ? Some people seem to either have no knowledge or no memory of how this juggernaut ground to a halt after thirty years of bloody mayhem …and just how easily it could start up again if the timing happened to be right..”
Are you saying that without Clinton’s visit the Provos and/or loyalists would have gone back to “war”?
@MT
“I haven’t shown any naivety, wilful or otherwise”
You have MT, your even doing it now.
“So you’re saying that without the EU and US in the background the Provos wouldn’t have sought a way out of the conflict?”
The Provos were always looking for a way out of conflict but one that met their demands, in the short or long term. It was the British Government seeking a military victory over the IRA (one which British Generals and PM’s later admitted wasn’t possible) that prolonged the troubles for a long time. They weren’t seeking a peaceful resolution. The EU/US helped make that peaceful route, one which the PIRA found acceptable. Groups like the UVF/UDA supported the Good Friday Agreement too but we don’t know for what reasons. Was it really for a genuine peace? Or was it because it would get their mates released from prison and for funding? Considering UVF/UDA actions from 1998 to this very day (they murdered over 50 protestants in that time, even more were badly beaten/injured) I’m inclined to think the latter.
“When did I say that?”
Read your comments MT.
“Are you saying that without such finding the Provos and/or loyalists would have returned to ” war “? ”
Obviously, its money keeping violence at bay. People are far less likely to be involved in violence if they have cash in their wallet, a good paying job, 3 holidays a year and brand spanking new car. Yep, that’s all that is keeping the peace.
“Are you saying that without Clinton’s visit the Provos and/or loyalists would have gone back to “war”?”
*sighs* Yes, MT. Well IRA/UVF/UDA were still at war when Clinton came. It was his help over the next few years that stopped the violence. I’m genuinely shocked you don’t understand this. Most people know this going back almost 20 years…..
“You have MT, your even doing it now.”
I haven’t and I’m not.
“The Provos were always looking for a way out of conflict but one that met their demands, in the short or long term. It was the British Government seeking a military victory over the IRA (one which British Generals and PM’s later admitted wasn’t possible) that prolonged the troubles for a long time.”
The Provos could have stopped at any time. Nobody forced them to slaughter. But I’m glad you agree with me that they were ‘always looking out’.
“The EU/US helped make that peaceful route, one which the PIRA found acceptable.”
They may have helped but the question is would the Provos have continued their terror campaign just because Adams didn’t receive a visa? Or if the US hadn’t been involved? Or gone back to “war” if there hadn’t been the EU peace funds. That seems unlikely.
“Groups like the UVF/UDA supported the Good Friday Agreement too but we don’t know for what reasons. Was it really for a genuine peace? Or was it because it would get their mates released from prison and for funding? Considering UVF/UDA actions from 1998 to this very day (they murdered over 50 protestants in that time, even more were badly beaten/injured) I’m inclined to think the latter.”
So you’re agreeing that the loyalist ceasefire had nothing to do with the EU or US?
“Read your comments MT.”
Why?
“Obviously, its money keeping violence at bay. ”
So you *are* saying that the Provos and/or loyalists would have ended their ceasefires if there’d been no EU peace money?? Wow.
“People are far less likely to be involved in violence if they have cash in their wallet, a good paying job, 3 holidays a year and brand spanking new car. Yep, that’s all that is keeping the peace.”
Wow.
“Are you saying that without Clinton’s visit the Provos and/or loyalists would have gone back to “war”?”
“*sighs* Yes, MT.”
Wow. If Clinton hadn’t come the Provos would still be out murdering and bombing?
“Well IRA/UVF/UDA were still at war when Clinton came.”
He came in 1995. The ceasefires were 1994.
“It was his help over the next few years that stopped the violence.”
The violence had already stopped. He wouldn’t have come otherwise.
In fact the Provos broke their ceasefire *after* he visited.
“I’m genuinely shocked you don’t understand this. Most people know this going back almost 20 years…..”
They do? Most people believe the Provos would still be at “war” if Clinton hadn’t come or we didn’t have the EU peace fund?
Let us hear your thoughts MT. Instead of cutting and pasting lines from other people’s opinions , let us have some of your own thoughts and experiences.What exactly do you remember from those times and how has it altered your perceptions or otherwise?. For example , just out of curiosity , what were your personal thoughts when you saw Clinton speaking to those huge crowds? This was the most significant politician on the planet at that time, addressing all the people here.Why do you think he got to that point and how did you view those events as they evolved? I have my perspective on that and it is also fairly well documented elsewhere. I heard the man speak in real-time and I have my own opinion of his particular oratory skills and how he used them in Ireland.Would a deal have been hammered out without his personal input? Somehow , I doubt it but you might think otherwise . If you do let me see your reasoning behind that view. You’ve a habit of actually answering a question with another question which doesn’t help the conversation, so let everyone hear your version of events and in that we can have a look at your own thought processes. As for loyalists and republicans returning to “war”, given the “right” circumstances these particular kinds of individuals could easily resort to that same old game and indeed many are openly attempting to do just that.Many of these folks never felt as important as they did when there was a conflict to validate their lives.The reality is that many eventually wanted to climb off that particular horse but others didn’t. It took a lot of political maneuvering to present them with the right circumstances to stop and still save face. Clinton was a big part of that.
Yes, of course a ‘deal’ would have been ‘hammered out’ without Clinton and the US. They helped but the Provos would still have ended their campaign without them. The imperatives were all there for the end of the campaign.
@PK
“I sometimes wonder where MT is getting his history or better still, how much of the years between 1968 and 1992 he lived through . He shows a wilful naievity as to how political deals are actually done.”
Makes it up as he goes along, it seems. Its a trend common in Unionism. For example, if something reflects them in a bad light then they distort it, justify it or deny it completely despite the basic reality that its true. King William III is a prime example, we hear from the Orange Order that he fought for “Civil and Religious Liberty”, that simply is not true. The Penal Laws alone proves that. If you weren’t a protestant or indeed a particular type of protestant then you had no or very little rights. So its utterly false to portray the Battle of the Boyne as some kind of liberation struggle. One look at History of British involvement in Ireland shows it was a horrible time and still is. British Historian Niall Ferguson described it in his best selling book “Empire” as “an utter disaster felt to this day”. British Celebrity Stephen Fry stood in Trinity College Dublin and apologized on behalf of Britain for the attempted destruction of the Irish language, destruction which many Unionist still desire to see to this day.
“It is surely not an unknown quantity that both America and the EU acted both as neutral referees and as background bankers and pilots to steer a course through to the final settlement that brought about an end to the day -to -day violence”
Yep, the British Government didn’t want a fair deal and were always backing Unionism, hence why when USA/EU entered the stage a fair deal was hammered out, a deal which most of Unionism rejected, the Good Friday Agreement.
“What does MT think President Clinton was doing here?”
The same with senator George Mitchell, senator Hart, US Ambassador Richard Haass, etc There’s a reason why political Unionism told all these people to “keep their nose out of our affairs”. Its because they knew that with these people involved there was going to be a level playing field. Before Richard Haass left, he made it clear where the blame lay on why a deal wasn’t done. Indeed during the discussions DUP politicians (allegedly Edwin Poots) was running to a hotel bathroom with files to meet fleg protestor Jamie Bryson in order to get his agreement on the deal. This is the same Jamie Bryson who has failed at every election he ever stood in. He stood as Ruth Pattersons election agent and failed so utterly Ruth decided to retire from politics. But of course everyone knows Jamie isn’t acting alone and some group may be pulling his strings. Who is that group? UVF? UDA? MI5? we can only guess. But Jamie is the first person I ever heard of on benefits that can afford to buy a brand new car and can work in a taxi depot without any criminal penalties brought against him…
“and just how easily it could start up again if the timing happened to be right..”
Indeed, and it most likely will if the cash stops flowing, hence why 2 court cases are being brought against Brexit. The main argument is the threat to the peace process….
“Makes it up as he goes along, it seems.”
If there’s something I’ve made up, presumably you’ll be able to say what it is?
(This coming from someone who told us Windsor Park was named after the Royal Family, Brexit would mean the end of the GFA, UK citizens will need visas to go on holiday to Spain, and numerous other nonsense.)
Well …Ryan …that’s about the size of it …with a few bells on.I’m still trying to figure out which individual parts of all of that list of actual historical occurences MT has a problem with …and more importantly a detailed explanatory expression of those specific problems, so that we can undertand exactly where he differs from the historical record…I dare say that if you cared to number each and every one of those particular events, you could easily research and study each one , complete with television footage on YouTube for some of it.For example there must be some stunning footage of Edwin Poots in action somewhere. None of us has the time to work our way through every bloody day of the conflict from 1966 to now but the main points are all there.
On another matter, unionists most certainly did not want an “agreement” at all. Their preference was always to have a “winner” and a . “loser” …even though that was never a possibility …so a shape of words and actions, so ambivalent and so nebulous had to be constructed to allow everyone to stop…not just unionism.That was done by bringing in outside “referees” who could take a middle path between British(UK)/unionist/loyalist interests and Republic of Ireland/Northern nationalist democrats/ northern Irish Republican interests and everyone else who wanted the whole damn thing to stop or go-away.. Each one of those points of view were seemingly valid , from each perspective but so much political mismanagement had evolved since the Northern Irish state had been set up, that it needed outside help to dispassionately unravel all of it.It simply was just about Republicans and Loyalists, remember.It was such a poisonous mess that “normal” life and relations were infected and affected by it.
“Well …Ryan …that’s about the size of it …with a few bells on.I’m still trying to figure out which individual parts of all of that list of actual historical occurences MT has a problem with …and more importantly a detailed explanatory expression of those specific problems, so that we can undertand exactly where he differs from the historical record…I dare say that if you cared to number each and every one of those particular events, you could easily research and study each one , complete with television footage on YouTube for some of it.”
Just one example will do. It’s telling that you can’t provide one.
PS ..That should be “it simply wasn’t just about….”at the end!
I’ve to tell you MT that your comments are actually not making any kind of sense anymore. Your habit of cutting and pasting with a “covering” one-liner does not a conversation make….. so having attempted that specific conversation many times before…and I gather I’m not alone in this…., I’m afraid as far as you are concerned , this is when that particular light-bulb is finally switched off. If you hear that “click” that’ll be me ,saying…”Goodnight from him!” ….etc
Had you said that Simon Jenkins or any other employee of Rupert Murdoch had told the truth about any topic in America, or elsewhere, now that would have been a headline.
A post about issues around the constitutional question gain a far greater reaction than anything else for the same reason Stephen Nolan has the “biggest radio show in the country”.
Everyone loves a good bun fight.
I think you touched on this yourself once before Jude, this isn’t reflective debate its entertainment.
Scott! Where have you BEEN???…Welcome back anyway and yes, I appreciate the extent to which politics is entertainment. But only today I read an op-ed piece in the NY Times where they looked at last night’s VP debate and stressed that we should judge these things not on style but substance. And they’re right. Politics is too serious to be just dealt with as a bun fight…
When Woody Allen was five years of age in 1941, Esteemed Blogmeister, he was brought along to the local cinema in Brooklyn for the first time.
The movie being shown was the W. Disney classic ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’ and during the course of the movie the red-haired snotty-nosed kid still known as Konigsberg, Allen left his seat, made his way down through the darkened aisle and made, but failed, to touch the screen, despite standing on his tippy toes.
Even as early as then, a lack of inches was a factor in his creative development. Even too at that young age, he already harboured an old hunch that life on the silver screen was a d. sight preferable to the grey drabness of a humdrum existence in the American equivalent of Dundrum.
This episode was later drawn upon in a necromantic kind of way many years later in his movie ‘The Purple Rose of Cairo’ in which one of the characters steps out of the screen and comes down among the audience.
One mentions Woody Allen who, perhaps more than the commonality, has successfully effected the leap from the parochial to the global, without losing the p. along the way to the g. Is there, in cinematic terms, a more recognizable face on earth than his hornrimmed, gnomic one?
Possibly only one: that of Rowan Atkinson. And that maybe only because Mr. Bean (for it is he!) lost nothing in translation, being entirely realized on the silent screen through the medium of body language.
One bases the latter on a ferry trip from Shanghai to the island of Putuoshan which one took about ten years ago. Although the South China Sea was far more calm and unruffled than say the (gasp) Mayoist goalkeeper last Saturday, nonetheless the passengers in the lounge on the lower deck were rolling in the aisles.
Comprising mainly of Lucht Roic as they say in the Leprechaun (Wrinklies in the German Q’s English) the reason for their rolling and roaring (with laughter) was the antic disposition of Mr. Bean on the screen. Which is not to say that Woody Allen does not have a huge following in China.
Indeed, one later managed to purchase one of the last Bootleg Box Sets of the Allen Oeuvre (almost 50 movies for almost 20 euros or its equiv in Yen) . One of the last, that is, before the compulsory two-week shut down of Main Street movie shops to coincide with the Beijing Olympics. The local authorities did not want to give the impresh to snoopy tourists that Bootleg was something (wink, wink) that Madame Lu and Mister Lu took with their ham and eggs.
Confucius say: China full of surprises.
The island of Putuoshan, incidentally, is home to over 30 thriving Buddhist temples, nunneries and monasteries. If, for instance, say Bud Abbot was told that Buddhism suffered more severely under the Communist Party in China than, say, Catholicism is enduring at the moment under the dictatorial Dworkin Class down south of the Black Sow’s Dyke he’d have done one thing. Dialled the number of Lou Costello to share with his partner in comedy the joke of the century.
All this, EB, to get to, by a commodious vicus of recirculation to Bogus Internationalism in general in the Free Southern Stateen and particular to one of its most vocal exponents: Brian Hayes.
That is, Brian Hayes, the Blue Haze of Bruxelles via Woody Allen’s Purple Rose of Cairo.
While listening recently to B.H. on the radio (not difficult to do, he’s never off the airwaves) one felt the urge to leave one’s sofa, slipper across the sitting room floor and reach up to touch one’s Third World Briefcase, aka, Ghettoblaster.
Gimme summa dat upbeat upmarketeering, bro.
For Brian Hayes on the radio was a reminder (timely) than the glass is always half full (especially when it ought to be completely full).Whatever about the apocryphal glass the Blue Haze of Bruxelles is clearly full of it. It, being, Bogus Internationalism.
To explain:
If the ultimate mantra of the Me Eyeland of Ireland is the doleful:
– a trough of low pressure is approaching from the West.
the boyish-looking Brian has balanced it with the chirpy:
– Ireland (sic) is now the only English-speaking nation left in the EU, post-Brexit !!!!.
He only stopped just short of adding:
-Yippie ki ay ! Yankie dollars are on the way !!!!!!
The buoyancy of the boyish-looking, boy-soprano-sounding Brian H is curious. In a curiously jaw-dropping sorta way. This is, tar eis an tsaoil/ after all, the same M.E.P who, despite, in his own words, ‘working his socks off’ in Bruxelles for his constituents in Ireland (sic) he still managed to be appointed (gulp) Director of Elections for Fianna Fail Better for the duration of GE 2016.
It will be recalled that in GE 2016 this Government Party lost 26 (!) seats on the 26 th (!) February . Just when we thought it safe to turn on our Ghettoblasters once again, alas, the length of time he took off to lick his electoral wounds, was a mere wet day. Two days later, like the rubber ball of Bobby Vee, Brian H was back up on his information highway horse in RTE again, of the bounce, bouncy.
Of course, this English language enthusiast’s optimistic gloating is derived from his visceral loathing of the Leprechaun.
To find a sporting parallel of this Bogus International linguistic thingy in sporting terms one does not have to look too far, within the confines of RTE itself.
Take a quick gawk down though the number of Bogball players who have been picked as Sportsperson of the Year since 1985, the year of this bauble’s initiation.
One mentions the Bogball for two reason: (1) it is the most popular sport in the nation (check out the aggregate attendances) – by an Irish country mile. And (2) it is the nearest sporting equiv to Leprechaun.
As an, erm, aide, memoire, during these 31 years such flatfooted clodhoppers as Peter Canavan, Ciaran McDonald, Alan Brogan, Larry Tompkins, Gooch Cooper, Anthony Tohill, Diarmuid Connolly, Michael Donnellan, Mickey Linden etc etc etc etc etc etc plodded across the sacred (alleged) sward of Crow Park (as it flies).
Little wonder therefore that the number of Bogballers who have been chosen as RTE Sports Person of the Year in the Section 31 years since its inception is (gulp):
-Nada. Tada. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Diddley squat. Lag-all.
I bhfocail eile, Hill Sixteen doesn’t amount to a Hill of Mr. Beans (see above).
No so surprising so if the buoyant Brian H is on a high as his outer English language enthusiast of this Humphrey Bogus of Hiberno English embarks on his latest Cringe Binge:
-Yippy ki ay ! Yankee dollars are on the way!!!!
I believe blogs such as this provide an invaluable dimension to the discussion and analysis of issues. This is particularly true because major print and tv media is so easily manipulated (dare I say used) by the government and advertisers. The issue of politics in Ireland is an enormous topic and corrupted and enriched by the machinations of its neighbor. This blog , as opposed to some, offers critical thinking and humor all too short in supply when discussing the conflict in particular. Moreover, it often provides solutions and insights that should work their way into government policy. Until that blessed day I say to Mr. Collins…..BANG ON!!
“Well, you might conclude we’re a narrow, blinkered people who can’t see beyond their parish boundaries. And there may be some truth in that”
We’re not unique, every country is the same. What is being forgotten is our politics is unstable and was at one point extremely violent, often resulting in death and destruction. Many of us still live with the scars of that conflict, even people who weren’t even born during it, we’re all left with the legacy of it. That legacy is multiple health problems, especially mental health problems, along with a strained, divided, sectarian society. That’s the society we LIVE through on a daily basis. We don’t live through the current Syrian civil war or other conflicts worldwide, so obviously it doesn’t catch our attention like our own problems do. Its just images on a TV screen to most people. I’m not saying that’s right but that’s what’s happening, most people here don’t even know what the Civil War in Syria is about.
So its no wonder why we focus on our own local issues so much more than other peoples would, we live through it every day. We’re not a normal or healthy society.
“Those who argue for maintenance of the union with Britain point to the fact that the Irish people in 1998 voted in favour of the status quo, with no change until the Irish people voted otherwise.”
The vast majority of Irish people only voted in such a way because it was the most likely way to stop violence. If there wasn’t violence then I think the vote may have been different but we can only speculate. If a similar vote was put to the people in Britain only, I’m sure they would’ve voted for whatever brought peace and ended the violence too. Indeed Margaret Thatcher considered giving the people of Britain (not NI) the chance to vote NI out of the Union. I don’t think anyone would doubt that they would’ve jumped through hoops to get rid of this region during the 1980’s but it would’ve brought peace in the long run.
Its important to remember also that the majority of Unionism opposed the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. Trimble could only convince half of his party to support it and the DUP opposed it completely. It was carried through thanks to the majority in Nationalism supporting it, including the two major nationalist parties.
“Or do we say “Don’t bring that boring old chestnut to the table – concentrate on bread-and-butters issues”. It’s undeniable that little time is spent on the former and a great deal of time pretending to be concerned with the latter”
In the short term, I’m more concerned with bread and butter issues but unfortunately B&B issues can often be entwined with political issues here. For example, the fleg protests in 2013 was estimated to have drove away over £100 million worth of foreign investment. The Twaddell Protest camp was hardly appealing for any would be investor thinking of opening a business in North Belfast.
Do some people use B&B issues to pretend they don’t care about the constitutional question? Yeah, of course but I’m not one of them. As John Hume said: You cant eat a flag, that goes for both communities.
“I think it makes little sense to continue schoolyard verbal abuse or to keep repeating a particular line, without occasionally stepping out of your labelled box and coming at the matter from a fresh perspective”
I always regarded schoolyard politics and parliamentary politics to be the same thing.
“And we really do have to start somewhere”
Sinn Fein have went miles outside their comfort zone to reach out to Unionism and so far its not been reciprocated as we have discussed many times here. Only the future will tell if these efforts will bear any fruit but so far they haven’t. I suppose all Unionism is doing in the long run is shooting themselves in the foot.
Politics here is extremely depressing, as are many of the comments posted on this blog, including some of my own but I’ve put down the truth. As usual, if I’m mistaken on some matters then I’m always open to correction.
“Maybe Brexit will be the hand-grenade that forces us to think afresh.”
Fresh ideas isn’t enough to move forward, though there’s no harm in trying out new ideas. It’s important to remember it takes two to tango.
“Many of us still live with the scars of that conflict, even people who weren’t even born during it, we’re all left with the legacy of it. That legacy is multiple health problems, especially mental health problems, along with a strained, divided, sectarian society.”
Yet despite recognising this you support the terror that caused the suffering.
“The vast majority of Irish people only voted in such a way because it was the most likely way to stop violence.”
How do you know?
The violence had stopped by 1998.
“Indeed Margaret Thatcher considered giving the people of Britain (not NI) the chance to vote NI out of the Union.”
Have you evidence of this or is it another of your little whimsical ideas?
I”ts important to remember also that the majority of Unionism opposed the Good Friday Agreement in 1998.”
No it didn’t. On the contrary the majority supported it.
“Trimble could only convince half of his party to support it”
That’s not true. The majority of the party supported it.
“For example, the fleg protests in 2013 was estimated to have drove away over £100 million worth of foreign investment. The Twaddell Protest camp was hardly appealing for any would be investor thinking of opening a business in North Belfast.”
The Provo campaign cost far far more and did much much worse economic damage. Yet you supported it.
Yes MT Ryan and many other contributors on this blog have a blind spot on what Republicans did during the troubles. The sheer notion that any unionist should be thankful and grateful that Republicans are attempting to outreach to Unionism is completely risible.
It may be helpful if I note that by my comments on the “‘Diminishing Returns’ ” blog entry I wasn’t setting out to suggest that, you, Jude, were “Parochial”; rather my comment was an attempt to be thankful that David by his article had broadened our horizons.
It is rather like visiting an new and unknown city, or tasting a new and previously unknown food, and reacting with some satisfaction.
To compliment one does not imply antipathy of another. I trust no offence was taken; none was intended.
On the other matter, the one you describe as:
“I think it makes little sense to continue schoolyard verbal abuse or to keep repeating a particular line, without occasionally stepping out of your labelled box and coming at the matter from a fresh perspective.”
I wonder if I might draw to the attention of other readers a series of conversations enjoyed during the summer by Jessica and myself. In those conversations, Jessica, a Republican, and me, a Unionist, attempted to step outside our labelled boxes and found a measure of agreement in the suggestion of a United Ireland within a border Federal UK/British Isles agreed Union.
To my mind, that such a conversation had taken place, and that such a degree of agreement had been achieved, at least in principle, was evidence of thinking outside the box.
Perhaps we might return to the subject some time, and when we do, perhaps others may wish to join in – for there was limited involvement by others.
There is, I believe, some merit in imagining what a United Ireland might look like in a broader context. And perhaps in that way (although I emphasise, my initial comment did not intend this meaning) in order to find a ‘solution, we might need to be less than (or maybe that should be ‘more than’) parochial.
“within a *border Federal UK/British Isles agreed Union.”
Should read:
within a *broader Federal UK/British Isles agreed Union.
Lest we confuse ‘border’ issues with ‘broader’ issues!
Jude says:
“There is one core issue here which divides us: the constitutional question. Everything else must find its place behind that question. ”
I am not sure how much it can be said to divide us now.
Most of us voted for the GFA which kicked the constitutional issue way way down the road.
Perhaps the people are saying that everything else (bread and butter issues) should have its place before that question.
And that might explain why 50% of eligible voters don’t use their vote.