Today is the 23rd July, that is 11 days since Danny Kinahan included the following words whilst apologising for tweeting a picture of himself in front of a 12th of July bonfire which had an Irish flag in (pole) position for incineration.
“I should have got the flag taken down before the photograph”
No Danny, if you want to be considered a Unionist ‘moderate’ you should have nothing to do with organisation(s) that think(s) it is reasonable to burn the Irish flag.
And if the Ulster Unionist party want to be seen as a ‘moderate’ Unionist party they should have at least publicly rebuked, if not sanctioned Danny.
The Alliance leader, David Ford, whilst suggesting Danny’s apology should be accepted stated “I think it was a bit more than an error of judgement”.
Many Nationalists, however, might just shrug their shoulders and muse to themselves that burning emblems such as the Irish flag have always been part of Orange ‘culture’ and that UUP (or DUP or TUV) politicians who want to get elected always need to immerse themselves in a ‘culture’ whose modus operandi is the denigration of their own.
Sectarianism, it may seem, is normalised.
But surely things are different these days – at least in theory?
Well on the same day as Danny was getting snapped in front of the bonfire with the tricolour atop, Supt David Moore, a PSNI commander in Armagh, Banbridge and Craigavon stated “We are investigating complaints about Sinn Féin election posters being placed on a bonfire in the local area. This is being treated as a hate incident”.
Now you might think that under this tougher stance being taken by the PSNI, Danny might not have suggested that the flag would only need to be taken down because a photograph was being taken or have given the distinct impression that he was in communication with those who put it up there – by suggesting he could have it taken down earlier?
You might also think that 11 days after Danny tweeted the ‘hate crime’ image, he might have actually deleted the offensive Tweet?
But no, Danny didn’t delete it – or clarify his words. Perhaps Danny like many Unionists in Northern Ireland believes that setting fire to cultural symbols belonging to ‘themmuns’ is such an integral part of Orange culture that any change in that is unlikely to happen any time soon – and that’s just the way things are.
…And to be fair to Danny although he may be simply a bit of Twit (if we give him the benefit of the doubt) – he’s probably right about that.
Postscript:
This matter has been raised with Danny Kinahan by an English Labour MP…
Danny Kinahan’s apology is a major step forward in Unionist acknowledgement of wrongdoing. Accept it magnanimously and we might yet live to see Unionists acknowledge their 50 years of misrule.
Sorry, but that wont be nearly enough Mary Jo, they must acknowledge that it was their leaders in UUP and DUP that single headedly and without provocation started the conflict by rebirthing Para militarism, bringing the gun back into politics in the 60s, paying the UVF to murder and encouraging attacks on the civil rights movement leading to murder and mayhem before bringing the British army back onto our streets.
That will not be airbrushed out of history and will not be swept under the carpet.
It’s not being swept under the carpet, it’s on nearly every piece of literature regarding Northern Ireland whether it be political, historical or even tourist.
Jesus, we can’t talk about anything without someone mentioning it. It’s like an Irish version of Godwin’s law…
What doesn’t get a mention is how many unionists want nothing to do with the OI, bonfires and parades.
Do you ever mention that Jessica? Thought not.
AG, you know perfectly well that the mainstream unionist narrative is that the troubles was nothing more than an IRA terrorist campaign.
MT has posted as much numerous times and still cannot acknowledge that it was unionism on its own terms single handedly started the conflict.
You have people like Gregory Campbell, a member of the largest unionist party, reinforcing that he will not allow this unionist narrative to be changed.
I am afraid that I would not be prepared to let this go unchallenged.
As our president has said, scrutiny of the troubles has been one sided and unionism has got off unfairly. That needs to be addressed and has not been adequately acknowledged by the leaders of unionism.
We have people today such as young Scott who think declaring themselves as unionist means simply a preference of being closer to Britain than the republic.
That is not the case. Declaring yourself as an Irish unionist means accepting the past history of unionism warts and all. I am a republican, and I am happy to accept the wrongs done by my community and support the acknowledgements and efforts towards reconciliation made by the political leaders of republicanism.
To date, the unionist leadership has made no effort at reconciliation, no acknowledgement of its role in starting the conflict and even had the neck to talk of sackcloth and ashes for republicans while loyalists to date have not even decommissioned their weapons and MI5 is still attempting to recruit on our streets.
I agree, that the written narratives and online show clearly the events that took place, but when will unionism through their leadership, man up and take responsibility for the past actions of the culture they wish to promote today?
“AG, you know perfectly well that the mainstream unionist narrative is that the troubles was nothing more than an IRA terrorist campaign.
MT has posted as much numerous times and still cannot acknowledge that it was unionism on its own terms single handedly started the conflict.
You have people like Gregory Campbell, a member of the largest unionist party, reinforcing that he will not allow this unionist narrative to be changed.
”
And who believes them or listens to them?
The international community?
Not in my experience of globetrotting!
So, if it’s always being highlighted and pointed out then how is it being swept under the carpet?
My word one of our main tourist attractions are TOURS telling you how everything is the unionists faults for goodness sake!!!
AG, if an MP in the largest party within unionism comes out with bigoted comments and the party shrugs it off, it speaks volumes for the party as a whole and those who vote for it.
“AG, if an MP in the largest party within unionism comes out with bigoted comments and the party shrugs it off, it speaks volumes for the party as a whole and those who vote for it.”
Yes Jessica.
FOR THE PARTY AS A WHOLE AND THOSE WHO VOTE FOR IT.
But you have in other posts that ALL unionism is bigoted.
So which is it?
Do you acknowledge that not all unionism is the same and is instead a spectrum ranging from a rabid Paisley on one side to an Asian in a corner shop who is pro-UK?
Or have you ‘gerymandered’ what it means to be unionist and just taken the worst bits as standard?
“Do you acknowledge that not all unionism is the same and is instead a spectrum ranging from a rabid Paisley on one side to an Asian in a corner shop who is pro-UK?”
Are you seriously comparing British unionism with Irish unionism?
In your dreams AG.
British unionists are nationalists in their own country. Irish unionists are British separatists in Ireland who want the same British nationalism impose outside of Britain at the expense of the native nationalism is it own country.
Unionism has always been based on the promotion of protestant British supremacy over the mostly catholic and more Irish population here.
The very ethos of unionism manifests itself in unadulterated bitterness towards Irish nationalism often resulting in bigotry, discrimination and such acts of hatred.
Every single person who supports the partition of this country is guilty of promoting sectarianism imo, the only difference would be where they are on the scale between mildly sectarian and blatantly sectarian.
Some people from within the unionist community are starting to realise that it is not Irish nationalists denying them their Irish cultural identity, but the sectarianism they grew up with in their unionist community.
Sooner or later they will realise, for as long as partition remains, sectarianism will be a core part of their culture.
It is up to the individual whether they want to bring their children up in a culture of hatred, normalising the burning of flags and effigies.
What I will also say, after almost 20 years of peace, they can no longer claim it is over actions of violent republicanism but accept that their bigotry and hatred is inbred and inherent to their culture. Something nationalists knew anyway.
Are you asking Sammy, can they change, or should they be allowed not to?
“difference would be where they are on the scale between mildly sectarian and blatantly sectarian.”
Is that like being a little bit pregnant, Jessica?
“Is that like being a little bit pregnant, Jessica?”
I would say no Jim, but it is a fact that pregnancy is quantified into weeks, months, and trimesters which is how the due date is calculated. It also has a beginning, a growth period and an end so the scale is also visually identifiable.
For example, If there were two women you had never seen but were told woman A was heavily pregnant and woman B was only a little bit pregnant, I think you would be able to identify which was which would you not?
With unionism, it is more subtle. They have been brought up to feel superior due to allegiance to Britain who has ruled over Ireland with an iron fist, through organisations such as the orange order and with their own versions of history, where unionism never started the troubles but were subject to an IRA terror campaign.
Where you have the muscle bound, uneducated and union jack clad orange lil’s and uncle Andy’s, there are also more dangerous unionists, who would manipulate through fear and it is those who pursue the normalisation of sectarianism.
I would prefer the honest flag burning working class loyalist to the devious and more discreet political bigots such as Mike Nesbitt who would convince others through fear mongering to do their dirty work for them.
Perhaps you disagree with me Jim.
If so, perhaps you could at least try to articulate it with a little more decorum, and preferably using your own words.
This Unionist Jessica has never burnt a flag, marched in a parade or threw a stone in anger at my fellow countryman. I do not feel superior to anyone.
Tomorrow il be getting up and going to mass with my Catholic girlfriend (she likes it when we go together so we can get a coffee after) and then we may head down to Bangor for the Ulster Fleadh.
Perhaps someday you’ll take your blinkers of hatred off and realise that the vast majority people are moderates and just want to get on in life. Perhaps you focus to much on the hardline element.
Oh my blinkers have been removed some time ago Scott.
I accept that you are a moderate unionist, you have got over the religious elements many in the unionist tradition struggle with, though you seem to think you deserve some sort of credit for having a catholic girlfriend which you keep bringing up, perhaps to try and give unionism a better complexion who knows.
There are protestants in my own extended family, though I would not consider them unionist. The biggest unionist in my own family is actually a catholic who served in the British forces and is the one I struggle the most to get on with and requires the most tolerance.
I hope that in the mainstream at least, that the religious barriers put up by Ian Paisley and hard line unionism have been broken down and that the national issue is all that remains.
As a moderate unionist Scott, do you feel unionism through its political leaders should acknowledge its role in starting a bloody conflict, acknowledge the discrimination and abuse of power that led to us living in a sectarian divide, acknowledge the abuse that was inflicted by the British state and acknowledge that much has changed and that the future has to be one of equals with all of the Irish people on this island?
And if so, do you feel it is wrong for the DUP to not be participating in a forum on the future of Ireland suggested by our Taoiseach who is finally making the first steps in acting like one?
Awk well I’d say she deserves more of the credit for putting up with me Jessica.
I only bring her up to show you how ridiculous your views of a one size fits all type of Unionist is. You have used phrases before such as
“Never trust a Unionist”
“Bigotry is in there DNA”
“Unionists only exist on a scale of mildly sectarian to total bigotry”
This is of course nonsense and while there are of course bigots in Unionism (as every other walk of life) to brand us all to a man, women and child sectarian only shows that the prejudice and bigotry belongs to yourself.
Funny enough the priests sermon this morning was about how we shouldn’t brand all muslims for the action the radicals in there communities. Perhaps there is something on that for everyone in NI.
As for political Unionism accepting what you say about the past I guess you should ask them. I have never voted DUP,UUP, TUV or PUP so I feel no compulsion to tell them what to do. They can speak for themselves.
“They can speak for themselves.”
Then how are you a unionist Scott?
Feeling more British than Irish does not make you a unionist.
There is a difference and it will become more obvious as the weeks and months go by.
“Feeling more British than Irish does not make you a unionist.”
I think you don’t seem to grasp that unionism/nationalism are simply political views and not cultural traits Jessica.
Culturally I and many other Unionists “feel” more Irish than British, just as an English person can feel more English than British and the same with the Scots and Welsh.
Culturally I feel more Irish, and more specifically I would say I am more that slightly different strand of Irish which I would probably describe as an Ulsterman but I have no problem with being called Irish. Of course though it is up to everyone else to decide how they feel culturally and I would not label people for them.
I don’t vote for the Unionist parties as I disagree with them on there social issues, however I remain a Unionist as I would vote to remain in the UK if there was a border poll and I believe the people of NI are better off in the Union.
I support the Union and that makes me a Unionist. I fail to see why I’m on your “sliding scale of bigotry” as you put it, for that fact.
You label me a bigot for the actions of people who happened to have one common political persuasion to me. These actions happened before I was born and even perhaps before my parents also.
The dictionary definition of a bigot Jessica is this.
“a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.”
This is exactly how you appear (on this blog anyway) to behave towards Unionists. I imagine however your simply a keyboard warrior and wouldnt have the courage of your convictions to go around calling Unionists bigots and sectarian in your day to day life.
Irish unionism is not simply a political view Scott.
It was not a political view that paid the UVF to start sectarian killing in the 60s.
It was not a political view that objected to civil rights for Catholics.
It was not a political view that brought people onto the streets to burn Catholics out of their homes.
It was not a political view that brought the British army onto our streets and pushed us into conflict.
And I am not simply trying to insult or upset unionists Scott.
Name one thing that I have said which is untrue.
Until the leadership of unionism face up and acknowledge these facts, there will not be a line drawn under these legacy issues no matter how much you want them to go away Scott.
Unionism MUST be made face up to their past and be put under the same scrutiny that republicanism has faced already.
“Irish unionism is not simply a political view Scott.”
Yes it is.
“It was not a political view that paid the UVF to start sectarian killing in the 60s.
It was not a political view that objected to civil rights for Catholics.
It was not a political view that brought people onto the streets to burn Catholics out of their homes.
It was not a political view that brought the British army onto our streets and pushed us into conflict.”
No, it was paranoia, hatred and political manoeuvrings that did those things
“And I am not simply trying to insult or upset unionists Scott.”
Well, you do a good job
“Name one thing that I have said which is untrue.”
OK:
* “Every single person who supports the partition of this country is guilty of promoting sectarianism ”
* “unionism is a sliding scale of bigotry, and that all unionists share the same DNA in terms of anti-nationalism in Ireland.”
“Until the leadership of unionism face up and acknowledge these facts, there will not be a line drawn under these legacy issues no matter how much you want them to go away Scott.”
Old faithful – as soon as anyone has you cornered regarding your skewed views on what a unionist is you bring out the nuclear option.
“Unionism MUST be made face up to their past and be put under the same scrutiny that republicanism has faced already.”
And then what? They’ll still be ‘a sliding scale of bigots’ regardless…
Until the leadership of unionism face up and acknowledge these facts, there will not be a line drawn under these legacy issues no matter how much you want them to go away Scott.
Unionism MUST be made face up to their past and be put under the same scrutiny that republicanism has faced already.
Jessica,
Clearly, the acceptance of burning Irish flags and Nationalist or Catholic symbols (or Protestant or Unionist symbols) should not be tolerated – and Irish elected representatives should not be seen to be condoning it.
Danny is not unique in this, but clearly as a Unionist at the more moderate end of the spectrum, the fact that he is comfortable with the image on his Twitter account illustrates how normalised sectarianism is.
Is it not hypocritical to condemn flag burning but condone other sectarian elements of unionism such as orange order marches.
Perhaps a good way to begin the normalisation process would be for nationalist led councils to fly only the Irish flag. I mean, if it is considered good practice for our councils to refuse to fly the flag representative of the majority of the citizens they are supposed to represent, then what example is that to give?
So long as they keep burning our flag, they know councils will refuse to fly it, southern politicians, even our so called president will fear to upset their sensitivities. If sectarianism is working for them, surely there is not much incentive for them to stop?
Perhaps some MLA’s did not read the Draft Programme for Government 2016 – 2021 or maybe they just missed the indicator about improving air quality. (p13:37)
Re the Billy Wright poster, I have long called for the glorification of terrorism to be an offence, thus allowing this disgusting item to be removed and requiring the police to pursue those responsible.
Sadly, though, it seems many people, while opposing the glorification of terrorists from the other community, are quite content to tolerate the glorification of terrorist from their own.
We can only thank God there are people such as yourself, MT, with balanced views and high principles…
Yip I agree MT. All terror glorification should be removed, starting with the British terror cenotaphs dotted all around the country. These are deeply offensive.
Jessica,
re’ “Is it not hypocritical to condemn flag burning but condone other sectarian elements of unionism such as orange order marches.”
Without sounding too philosophical…. it is very difficult to make any statement on a controversial topic in Norn Iron – without being accused of being hypocritical by themmuns (Nats or Unionists). Try it….
If there is an issue – like the one above – then it should be highlighted and exposed for debate and that sometimes make people think a little about they previously presumed to be ‘the way things are’.
Escalation of the flags dispute by Nats is tempting but should in my opinion be avoided – but it would be good to have a not setting themmuns flag on fire policy – by both ‘sides’.
I am not disagreeing with you at all Sammy, but you would think we shouldn’t have to make a policy not to be bigoted and sectarian in the 21st century.
Now we can focus on one element of sectarianism, i.e., burning flags and emblems which probably already is illegal, or we could call a spade a spade and point out the obvious, that unionism is nothing more than sectarian bigotry on par with white supremacy in the states and stop beating around the bush about it, And certainly TDs in the south pandering to unionist sectarianism and disowning their own does not help one bit.
Unionism must end. It remains the scourge in Ireland that it always has been.
Poor Jessica, she doesn’t want a Unionist (aka Protestants) about the place. Wonder if she knows any away from the computer screen or is the vitriol just saved for the laptop?
Oh I have nothing against protestants KC. In fact I have said often that if protestants wanted a united Ireland it would have happened long ago. Most of the best republicans have been protestant. In fact the catholic church has brought more than a little misery to our people.
A country dominated by religion, especially one religion is not a good thing,
Just to add to that,
Unification would be a good way of evening things up and could potentially lead to Ireland being not mainly catholic but mainly some form of Protestantism, something I would have no issue with.
However, if unionism is keeping Ireland ruled from England, then even a protestant Ireland would be the end of unionism.
I don’t mean this with vitriol, I genuinely believe it would be for the best for everyone.
What good can possibly come out of unionism in Ireland?
KC, I don’t know about Protestants but can you give us one positive reason why we would want Unionism here? That’s a serious question. Honestly, in the past 400 years, do you think Unionism have contributed anything positive to Ireland? Of course we’ll have to pretend all the ethnic cleansing, attempted destruction of Catholicism and Irish culture, etc didn’t happen, as well as the penal laws and all the sectarianism, Protestant fundamentalism, discrimination, anti-Catholic pogroms, etc.
Do you think Orange parades are appealing to the Irish people? Do you think the likes of the DUP/UUP would be accepted in any other society? In the 2015 General Election even the English people expressed their fear of the DUP being in some way involved in a coalition Government in Westminster. Indeed Jonathan Powell called the DUP “head cases” on a live British General Election 2015 debate. Deputy PM Nick Clegg voiced his concern at the time at the prospect of the DUP being in a coalition.
Unionism has been a poison in Ireland for centuries. That’s fact. Even today who is hindering progress? Unionism. Who opposes equality? Unionism. Who wants dominance in all political spheres from Stormont to local councils? Unionism. Who calls sectarianism and hatred “culture”? Unionism.
Seriously, the people of Ireland just want peace, its gone on too long, Unionism should just leave us in peace. This is Ireland, its not Britain.
Why so angry and bitter Ryan you like Jessica seem to have a real problem with Unionism that it goes against reason.
If a Unionist read this why would they be generous to you and the sad thing is that you dont see it sad really perhaps with a bit of maturity and commonsense you will grow out of it.
I have a problem with unionism dishing it out while refusing to accept its own flaws.
I have a problem with the non existent effort unionism is making towards reconciliation.
Comments like the above wont convince any wavering Unionists Jessica or perhaps do you make them as a means of getting things of your chest?
Convince them of what Robert?
That burning flags is wrong, that the orange order is sectarian as are orange marches, that partition is wrong and breeds sectarianism and hate?
That unionism did indeed start the conflict here or just that England doesn’t give a monkeys about any part of Ireland.
Perhaps that Ireland would be better off without unionism and for all of our people to unite for the betterment of all of our people?
Perhaps you could convince me that unionism is not sectarian and explain how it could in fact benefit the people of this island?
Feel better now for getting that off your chest and unto the computer screen? Jude’s website must be a great stress reliever for you. At least it’s cheaper than going to a therapist – you’re wound up tighter than a clock.
Robert, in time it wont be Nationalists who will be needing to do the convincing, it will be Unionists.
I have often lamented the late arrival of smartphones into my life. In 1989 I went along to see the Sandy Row bonfire, I don’t recall any lundies, nor pictures of John Paul the Great, nor national flags upon that bonfire that particular year, rather there were, just a few yards from the Ranger’s supporters club, dozens and dozens of Glasgow Ranger’s gansai, apparently they had just signed some Catholic chappie to play for them and their Belfast supporters were a little disappointed. My pity at not having a smartphone then is, I’ve no pictorial record of this event.
Kinahan, a lawmaker might remember his support for law breaking and what now is termed ‘hate crime’ next time he is voting on some matter over in the foreign Dail. Muself, I care not a damm what they burn on their bonnies, at least it’s no longer Irish homes.
Often wondered about that, and how it’s gone from burning Lundy, to the electoral poster removal services it is today. Definitely think social media and one upmanship comes into play. Not just a case of biggest is best, but whose got the largest collection. Ban all election posters and go back to the traditional burning of a single Lundy effigy and that’s half the problem solved. The Republic could come up with a new national flag as well, but that would probably end up getting chucked on the pyre too, due to abundant availability as a result of cheap manufacturing costs in Far East sweat shops.
I was tweeting with Chris Donnelly, the articulate Republican commentator, when I was alerted to this. Chris said something like “I have issue with the MP for my area burning my national flag”.
Was this an accident? Is Danny just a twit? lol far from it. It was all deliberate. We have seen the UUP under Mike Nesbitt go more and more to the extreme right on many issues before. It was the UUP who helped print the 40,000 anti-Alliance leaflets that sparked off the Flag Protests in 2012 then they ran away and literally hid away from the media for a number of weeks whilst Alliance members homes were attacked and rioting injured dozens of police officers. We seen Nesbitt walking out of Stormont and putting the peace process at risk due to the PIRA still existing but it’s absolutely fine for Nesbitt to sit down with active Loyalist paramilitaries. Indeed it was talented BBC journalist Tara Mills who put Nesbitt on the spot about his hypocrisy.
Danny’s actions was just another act by a UUP representative to pander to the lowest dregs of our society.
But what is not took into account is the effects this has on our society. This isn’t just burning a national flag of another community, its promoting hatred. We’re literally seeing an elected representative promoting hatred. Hatred doesn’t just stop at the end of the 11th July booze fest, it lingers on and it inevitably leads to violence. Think about how many sectarian murders have been carried out against Catholics due to sectarian hatred. Where/how was this sectarian hatred created? Due to events like 11th July bonfires/12th Parades. Who knows what the hell young kids are being taught by their Unionist parents all year round.
I find this talk of Nationalists “accepting” this sectarianism as “normal” to be very disturbing. Not only does it make us appear pathetically weak, it sends the message that we tolerate sectarianism. What next? Do we now tolerate racism from Unionists too? Indeed many placards on Unionist bonfires do have racist slogans. No one has forgotten the racist abuse aimed by Unionists against Anna Lo, it was so bad it forced the talented and progressive woman to retire from politics. She said the lack of reaction from political Unionism disgusted her. There’s also been Polish flags burnt on the 11th July night. Of course this is aimed at demonizing the minority Polish community here, who often come under racist attacks by Unionists.
How can you ever reason with people who class such hatred as a “culture”? What we should be doing is making sure the PSNI do their job and actually step in and prevent hate crimes such as burning flags. Indeed Danny Kinahan has potentially committed a hate crime and should be investigated.
But Nationalism needs to grow a back bone. Sectarianism will never be culture and that messages needs reinforced to Unionism, including its elected politicians.
“But Nationalism needs to grow a back bone. Sectarianism will never be culture and that messages needs reinforced to Unionism, including its elected politicians.”
And who Ryan should this new backbone we grow be aimed against, the working class loyalists who have been used as pawns by a better educated and more devious unionist leadership or the political representatives of both unionism and the their tory masters?
Under the circumstances, I can be prepared to be tolerant with working class people who I feel I have more in common with then the unionist political class elite who would run to the British army for protection should their bigoted and constant provocation, shit stirring and refusal to engage in reconciliation pay of and lead to the same working class loyalists to become their foot soldiers once again.
It is this middle class right wing elite who want orange marches, who want bonfires, flag burning and who want no reconciliation. Why do you think?
The unionist numbers are dwindling, what possible reason could unionism have for dragging their heels over reconciliation, for graduated responses?
Why is MI5 still recruiting, still bugging and still active in Ireland?
Yes, by all means grow a backbone, but with it hold the unionist leadership to account, make them acknowledge their past, make MI5 withdrawal from Ireland a red line requirement for the continuation of Stormont,
Working class people will stop burning flags in their own time, nationalism targeting them now is piking on an easy target while allowing mockery of our language and culture from people like gregory campbell and allowing a British secretary of state dictate to us.
Now that would be growing a backbone.
I remember watching a children’s movie where angered character shouted at someone in disgust: “look at me! Look at me!” and when the other character finally met his gaze he then replied “HOW CAN YOU EVEN LOOK AT ME?!”
It was funny. But now it’s alarming in that it seems to apply to NI public life.
We constantly have nationalists telling unionist politicians that they should get involved in the bonfires and try to control them a bit.
Clearly Mr Kinahan has got involved.
He does not have the power to go “you lot, take that down”.
We do not know to what extent he has influenced the bonfire, for better or worse.
He has apologised.
Nationalists love criticising unionist politicians for not apologising or being brazen and now that someone has done so it’s not good enough.
Taming these bonfires will take time.
There is a huge scale from little bonfires on the sides of roads in the middle of no where to huge hate fests that we see on the TV every year.
The DUP and TUV milk the ‘no surrender’ vote.
Mr Kinahan (regardless of the mark of Cain that nationalists will automatically brand him with) doesn’t do that and has to take a more diplomatic line.
If he does want nationalists want (or even moderates) and viciously criticise the bonfires then he will end up on top of one and the culture could get worse.
Does anyone want this?
If not then please give the man a few years, this is a long road and let’s see if he can bring about some results in the following 3 years.
If he DIDN’T get involved in the bonfire then people would be bleating about “how unionist politicians don’t do anything about the bonfires”.
If he DID delete the tweet then people would be saying “look! He knows he did wrong, he deleted his tweet!!!!”
AG: your suggestion that these things have to be approached delicately, small steps at a time, reminds me of what blacks in the US were told re civil rights – you can’t expect school integration just like that – gotta go for a little bit of civil rights at a time. Or is is St Augustine and ‘Lord, make me chaste but not yet’. Only in NI would you have an elected representative standing proudly at a bonfire atop which sits the flag of a neighbouring state. I mean – come on. And of course the south’s politicians haven’t got the cojones to even whimper a protest at the ritual annual immolation of the national flag. How about the other way round: a huge bonfire in…Drogheda, and the local TD gets his pic taken, with a big union flag atop. Would unionists/British people object? Mmm, let me think now…
Good point, but if loyalist hoods had bombed and killed the citizens of Drogheda for thirty years, then, I think most people would understand that city’s need for pent up frustration to be expressed on a community pyre.
Why, loyalists and the British forces bombed and killed citizens in the north for thirty years, I would not want my community to express anything on a community pyre and I doubt they would in Drogheda either.
Right, however, what choice does a moderate unionist have with these bonfires?
I understand that SF helped to foster a change away from bonfires to something more cultured in some nationalist areas?
Credit where credit’s due.
Now, how would Mr Kinahan attempt such a change?
You have to work your way into this crowd and change it from within, if you go in and criticise or boycott you will fail (or have your own home used as a bonfire).
It might not be a pleasant truth but it doesn’t make it any less true.
Am Ghobsmacht,
re. “We do not know to what extent he has influenced the bonfire, for better or worse.”
That’s true – but his statement “I should have got the flag taken down before the photograph” suggest some degree of complicity.
Sectarianism is so normalised that Danny didn’t think he needed to delete (or change it as he has done) the Tweet – 11 days after posting it.
He has not clarified this remark and didn’t change the Tweet from its original form to an apology after Jude published this blog and under the glare of publicity. I would describe that as way short of what would reasonably be expected of an Irish political representative and one painting himself as a ‘moderate’.
The matter has been raised with Danny by an English Labour MP and it remains to be seen if Danny is in breach of any British parliamentary standards…
Ryan,
“How can you ever reason with people who class such hatred as a “culture”? What we should be doing is making sure the PSNI do their job and actually step in and prevent hate crimes such as burning flags. Indeed Danny Kinahan has potentially committed a hate crime and should be investigated.”
You would have imagined with the initial furore that Danny would have made sure to distance himself completely – which I dont think his words actually do – for fear of becoming embroiled in a potential police investigation.
As mentioned earlier, you would have also thought he would delete the Tweet immediately rather than only editing – 11 days later and seemingly as a result of Jude publishing this blog.
.
Am Ghobsmacht,
re. “We do not know to what extent he has influenced the bonfire, for better or worse.”
Just to confirm Danny has not – as I suggested earlier – amended the tweet – and he has not deleted it.
So should he
1) not have confirmed whether he had such influence
2) deleted the Tweet
3) made it clear that the burning of flags is wrong.
Anything short of these 3 actions leaves the issue running and leaves him open to censure by parliament.