Paul Nolan made an interesting comment the other day. He was talking about the report he compiled for the Community Relations Commission and its reference to the 49%-42% of Catholics-Protestants respectively in Belfast. He noted that the flag protest took place a month before these figures were released and he suggested – rather poetically – that the protestors sensed through their feet in some instinctive way that the previously solid ground was shifting.
I think there’s a truth in that. It is undeniable that the Catholic population here have a spring in their step that is in marked contrast to at least sections of the Protestant population. That’s not to say there aren’t down-and-depressed Catholics or effervescent Protestants. But the general atmosphere is one where Catholics/Nationalists/Republicans have a sense that history is on their side while Protestant/Unionists have a sense of the tide flowing against them.
So where are the nationalists/republicans headed and how do the unionists feel they are being pushed back? Well, first of all in terms of a state of equals, nationalists/republicans can see gains. For example, the flag vote in Belfast City Hall showed the move – and it is just a small move – towards recognition of Irish identity; the flag protestors’ reaction showed the insecurity of loyalists/unionists, in that having their flag flying only on designated days was seen as a massive loss of dominance. Secondly, nationalists/republicans have a sense that a united Ireland is coming at some point, while the unionist population have this sense that they’re on the ledge of the Union.
Not, mind you, that resistance to any kind of constitutional change isn’t alive and kicking. There are counter-forces south of the border working feverishly to paint the present picture as the permanent picture. There was an excellent example of it in Wednesday’s Irish Times, in an article written by Stephen Collins (no relation). The article was headed ‘Final step to normal relations of Harp and Crown’, and featured a photograph of Queen Elizabeth II standing with bowed head at the Garden of Remembrance.
In the article Collins assures us that when President Higgins visits Windsor Castle on Tuesday, it’ll mark “the final step in the normalising of relations between the Irish people and the British Crown after almost a centre of division and misunderstanding”. The language used tells you all, even if you stop with that first paragraph. This is the last step. Final whistle. All fixed. End of game. And what was all that stuff about over the past century? Yes indeed it was division – sharp and bloody division at times. But essentially that was because of a “misunderstanding”. I think Collins (not me, Virginia – how many times do I have to tell you?) has an odd notion of misunderstanding. The fact that the north-east corner of Ireland is governed in terms of taxation and foreign policy from Westminster, and the fact that British troops – 5,000 the last time I counted – are stationed there – that’s some sort of misunderstanding?
Collins ends his article with the comment that President Higgins’s forthcoming speech to the Houses of Parliament “would be an appropriate place to acknowledge the contribution to Irish freedom made by all the great parliamentarians from Daniel O’Connell to Redmond, who pursued their cause by democratic means.” It would indeed. And President Higgins might also mention that both O’Connell and Redmond were singularly unsuccessful in achieving Irish freedom.
What this article and others like it in the southern media aim to do is convince the population south of the border that the pursuit of Irish unity is ridiculous. This is particularly the case since we’ve now happily solved the grievance that existed for so long between Britain and Ireland. QE2 sprinkled her fairy dust during her visit to Dublin a couple of years back and Michael D will add his final dash of glitter, and that’s it. Done deal.
If you read the article and more importantly, the online responses to it – including my own – you’ll see how out of kilter Collins’s declaration of ‘Mission accomplished!’ is with many readers of the Irish Times. Sorry Stephen. The peasants are revolting.
You can find Collins’s article and comments at http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/final-step-to-normal-relations-of-harp-and-crown-1.1749356
That old partitionist mentality, what ARE we going to do with it? I think time plays tricks with some people`s minds, if a lie is repeated often enough and all that. Maybe we would be the same, if the Protestants all lived in Cork say, rather than Antrim. I don`t know. The Nationalist population are at a good point now, compared to the drudgery and outright bigotry of forty or fifty years ago. `We are the people` has a rather hollow ring about it now, my hope is Unionists will see the situation as it is, not how they would like it to have stayed. The final bitter legacy will leave once Unionists of all hues accept Nationalists/Republicans have the same rights as they do, no more no less. I actually see the Unionist abstention at City Hall with regards to the invitation to Pope Francis as a positive thing. A small step but a step nonetheless.
A Re-United Ireland is absolutely inevitable and the vast majority of the people in this part of the country know it very well – and fully support it.
It’s all good.
Jude
“both O’Connell and Redmond were singularly unsuccessful in achieving Irish freedom.”
That is true. It is equally true that the violent men failed too in bringing Irish Unity. It is hard to understand why they are honoured by some for the futile death and destruction they brought yet O’Connell is forgotten.
Jude. The flags debacle shows unionist siege mentality is but a symptom of loss of ground they were predicting at the time of the 2001 census, would never come and a catholic majority wouldn’t ever happen because catholics were having only small families now. This convenient notion has been shot down in flames with the more recent census. The only thing preventing Robinson or nesbitt from demanding London repartition the colony again, is their spurious pretention to be democrats,[which they never were] Chickens are coming home to roost for unionism and ‘themmuns aren’t lying down any more. Their ‘friends’ in Scotland may just be about to deliver an almighty kick in the teeth to the deluded ulsterscots here and then the cold winds from England will be fixed on them. It’s a cold house in Britain for unionists and no mistake
i wonder Jude do you not know the history of one Stephen Collins? if not let me explain
Stephen Collins is an old school FG member aligned with Bruton and Fitzgerald who like all other fg members including mr kenny believe that the 26 counties or the free state as i refer to it is the final settlement and that the boundary commission is final and that the 26 counties is the republic of ireland!!!!!!!
over the years because the history of the civil war and the lack of explanation of 1916 and redmond and mcneill was never taught in irish schools and what was had been sanitized in fear of rekindling the wrong of the treaty a policy that was enforced by all parties including labour and FF and which is going to be further imposed by current government by way of dropping history as a compulsory subject in the leaving cert ( DON’T TALK ABOUT THE WAR COMES TO MIND)
These action’s have had a serious effect on the psyche of the south and its people and created the sense of nothingness no pride in irish culture language or history or the political struggles past and to come, to this day its the bended knee mentality and hand outs from imperial masters ie europe and formally the brits.
in many ways this is beginning to change with the arrival of SF, the scandals of the garda, the crc ,rehab, money pocketed by corrupt politicians, by way of pensions and brown envelopes, at last the history of corruption is leaking out from under the carpets and SF is at the forefront of it, the days of Stephen Collins view of irish history and our place among the world’s nations is about to change and ireland will be a true republic united and equal standing high without the shackles of england or the eu but in our own right a proud and honorable people
Unfortunately a lot of Catholics are getting very comfortable with the Union. The appalling health Service in the south would be a big barrier,as would an education system where everything has to be paid up front. Even the price of new cars would be a factor for middle class and working class Catholics who are in steady employment. Even if you call out the Fire Brigade i the “26”, you are likely to be charged 2000 euro . On the other hand unemployment benefits, housing benefit and State pensions are much more attractive retirement A twenty year merger of the two systems would probably be required.
Sorry for typo,omit “retirement” in last line, insert “in the south”
Jude :
There is nothing wrong with an aspiration by nationalists for a United Ireland and there should be no problem with unionist aspirations to maintain unionist ideals. We were supposed to have established a level playing field in that each political aspiration was a right. Nationalists were now not to be seen as some kind of nasty , unclean “rebels” against their betters, but voters with an equal stake in future choices.
We can all see the gradual change happening though. It seems apparent that the “working class” rump of nationalism is somehow managing to better educate itself. Young students interviewed on television appear to be astute and informed. The lord Mayor of Belfast appears to be equally at ease and articulate in virtually any company except an exceptionally vitriolic loyalist rump who seem to be happier trying to thump the man.
Who can forget the frisson of embarrassment when President Clinton was confronted with the near-inarticulate Eric Smyth as unionist Lord Mayor. We asked ourselves who could be responsible for the dark joke in this pairing.
Loyalism, unionism or whatever it wants to call itself, , seems quite proudly defiant in its boorishness in the “fleg” fiasco .That includes its supposedly educated leaders .They appear to have no insight into where this behaviour will ultimately lead them .Their preference appears to be to remain uneducated or unknowing at all costs; maintain a conservative neo -fascist stance and retreat further and further into a smaller and smaller union of their own minds.
The questions they should be asking and figuring out is .”What is in it for us, if in a future scenario a majority of the citizens vote for a United Ireland?” They should be thinking ahead as should their other half in the marriage, the nationalist aspirants. The unionist-thinking “loyalists” would have quite a power bloc in a re-united Ireland…that is if they all remained of a conservative bent as seems to be the present case…..but what if they became educated and starting thinking like socialists instead of little Ulster tories?
The nationalists in the north have a greater affinity with socialist ideals which basically tells us that their unionist fellows are being led by their tory masters by the nose. i would question whether unionism really wants its voters properly educated . The cloths might be lifted from a lot of eyes if that were the case.
On the other hand nationalists who aspire to a united Ireland really do need to see the economic plan laid out before any such leap of emotional faith is taken ..It’s not about putting one up on themmmuns…….Pragmatic or what?
Brian, you make some good points, as far as cost of living is concerned, I know that the road tax for vehicles down south is very expensive, you pay for the tolls on their motorways, there are countless other things too.
There is one elephant in the room that nationalists, from what I can see, aren’t considering. That is, the whole identity of “Northern Irish”. There are a lot more younger people who would see themselves as this, and they will need to be convinced of any benefits if there was ever to be a re – unified Ireland. I think the main nationalist parties aren’t taking this into account, and when half the people 18 or over don’t bother to vote, the elections throw up a disjointed view of the populace.
You might even get people proposing an Independent Northern Ireland, even though there is no accepted, or agreed viewpoint on what it is to be “Northern Irish”.
As for the article, people who see this as an endpoint, are either stupid or deluded. Anybody with even a basic knowledge of Irish History show know that there has been enough twists and turns here, that things will keep changing, as they always do.
Gio,Daniel O’Connell was also a violent man.He killed a man in a duel.I don’t know if Pearse or Connolly actually killed anybody.
michael
Those were the days. If only Martin McGuinness had had a duel with Thatcher over the constitutional question and left the rest of us in peace.
In all seriousness it is sometimes easier for men to lash out with violence rather than take the harder route of seeking a peaceful resolution. That is the way that really takes courage in my view.
“5000 British troops are —- stationed here” Considering Sinn Fein have been in power since 2007,what are they doing about this state of affairs?
And if neither the Republic of Ireland nor Scotland seek the input of persons in Northern Ireland what then?
With the neck and neck state in the Scottish question as seen in Sunday Times headline, this is the point where we may find out if unionists are going to either get over to Scotland and take part in the debate or keep out, and whichever option they decide to go for, they can’t win, as staying away would be an admission that they are a liability to the NO side, and going into TV studios to effectively tell their ‘fellow Scots’ they are too stupid to make it on their own while the real scots will know that their future is not the real concern of our politicos. It is beginning to look like Scots may leave the Union after all and leave unionism in a very cold UK house indeed.
Jude,
Funny you should mention unionist insecurity. If you put “faux pas of the month” you get this:
http://sluggerotoole.com/2006/05/30/faux_pas_of_the_month/
You only get out what you put in… 😉
Well I guess if he spluttered he mustn’t have been performing as he can. Normally Mitchel is one of the most articulate and sure-footed of Shinners.
And brilliantly revealing… 😉
Shucks Mick…..would have thought your fellow unionist Billy Hutchinson had the Gold medal in the bag, bragging away about his murdering of innocent Nationalist civilians.
If you can’t get man get the ball, eh NMM?
Jude Collins is well capable of making the calls on his web-site – it’s his web-site not yours. Meantime, thanks for avoiding any comment on Billy Hutchinson’s vomit-inducing statement in question.
Mitchel’s faux pas reveals something important about the demographic strategy. Natural change is not going to work quickly enough for the artists formerly known as the Army Council. Destabilising whole *communities implies you want people to move or even better to take the boat.
*communities are different from political parties which in democratic terms are a legitimate target.
As for Billy, if you can make him relevant to the conversations, certainly I’ll comment.
I sometimes wonder how much nationalists actually want a united Ireland when I read stuff like this.
If I were a nationalist (and arguably I was, fleetingly, at least in terms of reunification, certainly not in terms of ‘the baggage’) I would try to formulate THE PLAN.
The plan would involve ways of making a united Ireland more palatable to the small portion of the Protestant community that are open to the idea of a unified Ireland that doesn’t involve a sense of defeat.
Instrumental in that plan would be the separation of the tricolour and ‘Irishness’.
The sentence “… towards recognition of Irish identity..” is infuriating and makes me want to just dig my heels in and let the bitter charade play itself out for the next few decades or so.
Listen carefully, the tricolour does NOT represent Irishness exclusively, it represents a strand of Irishness.
The same can be said for those that adore St Patrick’s cross/fitzgerald Saltire (incidentally, the flag of the Catholic church in Ireland).
They represent a type of Irishness, to say the tricolour is THE flag of the Irish nation is cold, ignorant, offensive and will hinder any plans people may have with regards to a united Ireland.
Put it like this:
You see the way we all look at ‘fleggers’ and think “my God, these guys don’t get it, they don’t see how much they damage their own cause with their mentality”?
Well, that’s how many unionists see nationalists who come out with this kind of tosh.
If you want a united Ireland you have 2 options:
1/ Demographics, eventually this may sort itself out assuming that unionism continues on its present course
2/ Come out with a plan that could appeal to potential swing voters/Lundys (like yours truly)
So, keep coming out with the tricolour-uber-alles guff and it’s option 1.
I’m happy enough to point out where you guys are going wrong, damn it, I may even blog about it soon a la this blog about unionism: http://amgobsmacked.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/10-things-that-unionistsprotestants-do.html
And before anyone descends on me in a rant of MOPE indignation can I point out something:
Northern Ireland exists despite the following circumstances:
1/ That Unionists are outnumbered by 4-5 million people on the island
2/ The mothership sees NI as an expensive and very bothersome blackhole that it would do better to be rid of
3/ The unionist leadership is bereft of vision and long term pragmatism
4/ Worldwide sympathy for the Irish nationalist cause
5/ A small but significant percentage of the unionist voting base are open to the idea of a united Ireland
Surely reading the above points should send alarm bells ringing with regards to a major flaw in nationalist thinking?!
There could have been a united Ireland decades ago had you played your cards right (thank the Ayatollah McQuade for that one).
Over to you guys, either come up with a decent vision and when that message is received go for a border poll with the aid of swing voters/Lundys or just wait a few more decades and in the meantime bitch about perfidious Albion and the unionist leadership.
2 reasons why a United Ireland is not going to happen soon and which haven’t been mentioned much here are
1) the enormous public debt the Southern State has acquired and all the consequent problems that entails. I get the feeling nationalists/republicans north and south of the border who feel strongly about unity are hoping for and trying to get a stable situation as regard the public finance crisis and are looking for strong economic growth over a period of 2-3 years for the republic before the border issue is re-addressed.
2) Nationalists/republicans spend an inordinate amount of time ‘tearing lumps’ out of one another over every aspect of politics/history/economics. There is plenty of evidence of this on this blog and other blogs. To give only one example of many in my life, I remember as a young boy watching my Dad and Grandad get into a heated debate/argument about the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921 for several hours. (My grandad was 7 years old in 1921) I remember thinking it was futile to some extent to be so adversarial over something so long ago.
Unionists/Loyalists are PERHAPS more prone to searching for the means to ‘unite against their enemies’ while nationalists/republicans are perhaps more likely to find argument with their fellow nationalists to such an extent that it is very difficult for them to come to any consensus on a plan to ‘reach the next stage”
Am Ghobsmacht,
You make some pertinent and interesting points and try to sell the line that you are some form of fair minded, free thinking, Protestant interested in equality here and then rumble your own edifice by claiming on your blog that ‘republicans hijacked the Irish language’.
You obviously don’t appreciate how ‘small minded’ and petty this makes you appear. Republicans do not, nor never had any exclusive rights to the Gaelic language. Your attitude appears to be Sinn Fein and Republicans are some form of distasteful untouchables that have brought the Irish language into disrepute because they choose to use it and promote it! How incredibly arrogant!
Now for the real world! Sinn Fein and Republican views are popular here, in the 26 counties and across the world! that is despite the full weight of British and Irish popular media working full pelt against them. They are the underdogs who are still standing strong in the face of overwhelming odds, and they are not distasteful to many people here and they are not likely to go away until people in Ireland stop supporting them.
If you don’t think you are going to be able to put your prejudice behind you and learn to live as equals in Ireland with people like Martin McGuinness and the hundreds of thousands of people who vote for Sinn Fein then you are as much a part of a problem as the knuckle draggers and their flag waving friends who regularly bring Belfast to a standstill or recreationally burn out some struggling immigrant family! Same thing, different scale!
Pointis
The perception of republicans hijacking the Irish language is ingrained in the psyche of many Protestants,
It is the number one feather ruffler in this topic but it is a truth in the eyes of many if not most in the unionist community.
I’ve tried to explain this as delicately as possible in my blog but people discard the diplomacy and just start laying into me as being some sort of ‘hater’.
http://amgobsmacked.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/foreigners-lundys-and-irish-language.html
That is not the case at all, I am merely trying to highlight some unwelcome truths.
Now, your are armed with the knowledge that SF’s promotion of the Irish language harms it in the eyes of many in the unionist community.
What you choose to do with that knowledge (if anything) is up to you.
And yes, I’m well aware that Unionist politicians exacerbate the situation.
If you don’t believe me then I suggest you contact some of the Irish language teachers in the East Belfast mission and ask them for their opinions on the matter, they’re at the coalface of the situation and will be able to tell you if my (perception based) summary is inaccurate.
If they agree with my summary then does that make them arrogant too?
What if I’m right and SF’s use of the language DOES harm it?
Can I recommend this book for some insight:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Towards-Inclusion-Protestants-Irish-Language/dp/0856408441
You’re correct, I do not like SF.
Nor do I like the DUP, TUV, PUP or UUP, they are the reason why I consider the idea of a united Ireland for I can’t abide their visions of NI (though I was a fan of David Ervine).
I’m sorry you saw my entry above as an anti-SF rant, even though I didn’t even mention them.
Where you got the notion that I’m not prepared to live alongside these people I don’t know, could you highlight the relevant text?
And bearing in mind that I spend a lot of time criticising Jamie Bryson and the fleggers, does that mean I don’t want to live alongside them too?
Does that also mean (using your logic) that I don’t want to live alongside people who vote DUP, TUV etc?
I don’t think you’re taking in what I’m trying to say, rather just springing a reflex like counter strike to what you regard as unfair criticism
This was a rant to try to highlight where nationalism might be going wrong.
If you believe that nationalism is fine on its present course then grand, that’s up to you.
Personally, I’d be asking why there’s been so little progress on reunification after all this time and effort, especially as everyone knows Britain can’t wait to be shot of NI.
Pointis:
I think you were a wee a bit hard on old Am Gobs…..His is a fairly thoughtful reasoned view and many of his points are valid .
There is a lot of guff about identity here as if we were two herds of beasts…one goats and the other cattle.Well we’re not and we don’t have to think as a herd .I don’t want a Catholic Ireland or a Protestant Ireland . I’m buggered with flags .They have both got a lot of baggage and there’s always some cretinous git wrapping himself or herself in one colour or the other and squealing out about their identity, so in those cases that bit of cloth with all its past associations is defining them.It doesn’t define us all.
A lot of people are learning Irish , not because it’s a fantastic world language but because they want to button it to their lapel and proclaim their Irishness.That’s fine too. They’re not learning it so that they can travel the world and converse with the locals. It’s a local language. .Anyone coming to Ireland from the UK or further abroad will soon discover that everyone from Dingle to Bundoran will understand them if they speak English. The same goes if you visit Scotland or Wales. A more universal language to learn might be Spanish, French or some Chinese dialect. In the end a language is an evolving useful tool of communication, not a label of identity.
Then we get language and flags used as weapons or territorial pissings. We’d never heard of Ulster -Scotch until a few years ago . It was a “clatter” of words and phrases that were used colloquially as a sort of country slang that you heard your parents or grandparents using, until some unionists decided that if the local nationalist/republicans had a special language that they “secretly” conversed in, then they wanted one too!!! They mostly didn’t want to be tarnished by anything smacking of Irish, nationalism or republicanism…..after all that lot were being taught Irish for generations in their Catholic schools.They’re thinking……We , unionists should be teaching our children our own language.. to separate us from that lot ……whatever that is!
The biggest problem for us all is that we are all judged as homogenous groups and that there are only two choices…like trying to pretend that everyone in the Republic are all nice little Catholic boys and girls and that this isn’t the 21st century and not everyone is dancing at the crossroads.We really need more education about our nearest neighbours .
They love their sport and their rock music because we’re always going to Dublin for games and concerts…just like in the north. It’s not as if the great writers , artists and poets were always respected by the gentry in Ireland. I’m sure Brendan Behan was hated as much as he was loved …just the same as the Welsh Dylan Thomas would have been loved ..just so long as you didn’t have to live with him and his beatnik ways and clear up the mess he left…
The greatest revolution i can see coming will only be obvious when the second generation of immigrant Poles, Russians and what not who are now our new neighbours, begin voting in local elections. This new blood may tell a whole new tale about identity. The streets and pubs are already awash with new languages.
Then it’ll be time to get the designers out and begin constructing new colours to run up the flagpoles.
Am Ghobsmacht,
I am sorry if you felt I was being hard on you but I really don’t think you understand how your arguments pan out for people who have fought to keep the language alive when there was little or no support mechanisms in place and I mean Protestant/ unionist / Catholic / nationalist / republican / other.
This is how your argument pans out to some people. The Irish language would be grand / acceptable if republicans didn’t use it so much they are putting some Protestants of using it lest they are seen as being Irish or even republican sympathisers.
That argument was used before in a different context in South Africa:- if blacks start using the beach they are going to put of decent white folks who are then going to go somewhere else. In my humble opinion it is not the blacks who start to use the beach who have the problem rather the ingrained prejudice of the folks who refused to share it with those they consider lesser human beings!
Others my choose not to see the context and that is up to them but I can tell you that many of the increasing numbers of people who voted for and continue to vote for Sinn Fein are not going to accept responsibility for the prejudice of others.
A shared future is a future of equals where there can be no underclass to be demeaned or blamed on the ills of that society.
The reference came from the link to your own blog which you inserted into your contribution.
I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.
Paddykool, like you I do not want to be part of a united Ireland dominated by, the Catholic Church, the English monarchy, or any other arrangement where one section of our community is treated less favourably than another.
I apologised to Am Ghobsmacht if I have hurt his feelings. I know from his contributions he os a good egg and his intentions are good. I am afraid that any shared future here means exactly that, sharing this space not just with those “on the other side whom you may feel comfortable”, but with those people whom you not have previously felt that you had much in common with.
I have often felt that people here should be given the opportunity to walk “in the other man’s shoes” for a better perspective on life here. Much work still to be done!
Pointis,
No need for an apology at all, all’s fair in love, war and blogs.
I spend a lot of my time drawing attention to unwanted truths and whilst I understand how hurtful it may be to lazily blame the shinners for everything I can only
point out what I know about the NI mindset and how negative association works (hence the Old Firm example in my blog, it’s a classic example).
I give the Shinners a hard time about their official use and endorsement of the Irish language as it makes it harder for the language to be accepted by many unionists.
Are they prejudiced against SF?
Well, I imagine many of them are, or as they would see it ‘prejudiced against the IRA’ whom many believe wanted to drive them to the sea.
But that doesn’t mean they are instinctively prejudiced against the Irish language, quite a lot of things had to happen before it became the case and a major part of
this is the employment of irish by Republicans.
By the same token, if Alex Salmmond started sloganeering in Gaelic that would potentially harm the image of the language in places like Edinburgh and Glasgow where pro-union people may feel that the language has become an anti-union tool.
If we are to use foreign examples then allow me to have a crack.
I spent some time in the former Yugoslavia.
In the eastern Croatian town of Vukovar there’s a similar (ish) situation.
Vukovar was smashed up by the Yugoslav army ( aided by Serbian militias)
Grim things happened there.
Now there is a hullaballoo as the Serbs of the town wish to put up signs in Serbian Cyrillic.
In an ideal world this shouldn’t be a problem; it is part of their culture, identity and tradition and people should be accepting of that.
But then enter the world of negative association: For many of the folks of Vukovar it serves as a reminder to the ‘Vukovar – year one’ when hell broke out.
Following your logic they are well entitled to do so (correct), following my logic it would be a case of “Lads, is this going to make things better or worse?”
Neither approach is wrong per se but what is the end game? What takes precedent? Peaceful coexistence or sticking to ones guns?
The examples aren’t exactly like for like but you get the idea.
As long as SF officially publicise the Irish language, use it in their literature or use it in their banners and marches then it galvanises the view for many in the unionist community that it is the tongue of the IRA.
That is just the way the human mind works I’m afraid, it’s not ‘narrow-minded’, it’s just what happens TO the mind.
So, the question is this:
Which is more important, SF’s votes or the survival of the Irish language?
Naturally, to me, it’s the latter option but I don’t expect this view to be shared by all.
For those who vote SF and have a love of the Irish language they could perhaps spend some time mulling this over.
Which takes priority, Irish culture or SF culture?
Bitter food for thought.
And before you think I’m just on some sort of jihad against SF my suggestions for the survival of unionism are arguably even more draconian and unpopular (I won’t make
many friends doing this kind of thing).
But, the point is, unionism is stuck in a rut and the union is surviving DESPITE the actions of the unionist leadership and nationalism has failed to deliver despite
having so much going for it.
That says to me that there are deep flaws in both camps.
I’m only giving my two cents as to what they may be.
I could be wrong, but I’m quite confident that the Irish language would benefit from SF leaving it alone (in an official capacity, if their members learn of their own accord then fine. Great, in fact).
As I’ve said before, having the right to do something does not necessarily make it the right thing to do.
Could someone tell me who this Mick Fealty character is .He occasionly pops up on this site to promote some obscure unionist website which nobody I know has actually heard of .
He is a political blogger who runs a blog/ website called sluggerotoole. To be fair I would not describe the site as being unionist! He has bloggers from every persuasion making comments on political upheavals here and elsewhere.
Anytime he posts here,he certainly comes across as a unionist.
Mick :
1. Mitchel’s faux pas reveals something important about the demographic strategy. Natural change is not going to work quickly enough for the artists formerly known as the Army Council. Destabilising whole *communities implies you want people to move or even better to take the boat.
*communities are different from political parties which in democratic terms are a legitimate target.
2. As for Billy, if you can make him relevant to the conversations, certainly I’ll comment.
1. Demographic change is taking place at a stunning rate – by 2020 already, there will be a Nationalist majority and by the mid-2020’s there will be a Nationalist electoral majority.
However, if you personally spoken to members of the former Army Council to confirm this is not fast enough for them then I’ll take your word.
“Taking boats” – news to me. Can you kindly advise which Nationalist leaders are advocating that Unionists should take the boat ?
None that I know of.
2. You introduced the topic of “fauxpas of the month” in relation to unionist insecurity – I brought your attention to a stomach-churning fauxpas that exposes that insecurity in spades (amonst other things) that was a worthy Gold medal winner by a leader of unionism.
You choose to ignore it.