Stephen Nolan: the colourful and the thoughtful

 

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About a decade ago I wrote an article in the Belfast Telegraph defending Stephen Nolan. (That’s back in the day when the Belfast Telegraph accepted articles from me.) Ed Curran had written a critical article about Nolan’s radio show, saying that it was bear-pit stuff and a sad decline from David Dunseith’s Talk Back. I disagreed and compared Nolan’s style to that of a tabloid newspaper as opposed to a broadsheet. The fact that the Sunday Life  has a more in-your-face approach than, say, the Irish Times doesn’t mean that it isn’t engaged in worthwhile journalism. Ditto Stephen Nolan and more elegant programmes like David Dunseith’s.

I still believe that. However, there can be too much of a good thing. Nolan is now the magnet for public discussion of issues here and his tough-knuckle style clearly draws audiences. But does it sometimes get so absorbed in colourful detail it misses the big picture? It has on at least two occasions this week.

The first involved myself. I was on Stephen’s radio programme on Monday where I was discussing with Alex Kane the cosying-up of the Tory party to the DUP. I made the point that the DUP, in the event of a hung parliament, were less likely to squeeze from the Conservatives concessions of value to all here and more likely to squeeze concessions on parading. In short, I believed the DUP would return with a prize for an organisation, among whose members were those who urinated on Catholic church walls, rather than a prize that might benefit everyone. Stephen immediately told me I’d said something “overloaded”, that the urination I was referring to had been a “single isolated case” and besides, the urinator had been a bandsman, not an Orangeman. My comment that Orangeman/bandsman distinctions would be lost on many got swallowed up in the verbiage that followed.

The second  instance involved Pat  Sheehan on the Nolan TV show last night. The Sinn Féin man contended that Peter Robinson had failed to issue a statement condemning the UVF for involvement in East Belfast disturbances. Jeffrey Donaldson said no, no, his party leader had always been opposed to violence. (No, Virginia, Clontibret was not mentioned.) It then emerged that Peter Robinson the previous day had issued a statement condemning the UVF for any part it played in disturbances. Stephen waved the statement at Sheehan and urged him to  “be a man and apologise” to Peter Robinson for his false claim.

The case of the urinating Orangeman/bandsman was a colourful example that then led into a discussion cul-de-sac. The difference between Orangeman and bandsman is lost on many of us as they thunder past. As to the “isolated case”,  a photograph of two bandsmen relieving themselves outside a priest’s house in Limavady recently, along with a Belfast Telegraph article on the leaking duo seem to suggest it’s not too isolated. But rather than addressing the sectarianism behind such crude conduct, or exploring whether the DUP were likely to exact something of benefit to the whole community or just one part,  Stephen focused on the man with the  open zipper.

Likewise with the Peter Robinson condemnation last night. Rather than call on Pat Sheehan to man up and apologise to the First Minister, it would have made more sense to consider whether the DUP leader had condemned UVF violence from the start, as did his counter-part Martin McGuinness when faced with dissident republican violence. Stephen’s call for Pat Sheehan to man-up  made for jollier television but it did little to shed light on the issue.

I’ve no problem with using particular examples – they can often point us to bigger and more general truths. But with his ability to attract large audiences Stephen also has the responsibility of dealing with the issues, rather than taking them up some thrilling cul-de-sac for an irrelevant punch-up.

As to that periodic boast of yours, Stephen –  “We’re the biggest show in the country!” – apart from its crassness, it chips away  at the good will of the tens of thousands of your listeners who believe their country is Ireland.

48 Responses to Stephen Nolan: the colourful and the thoughtful

  1. Maggie May May 15, 2014 at 11:58 am #

    precisely Jude. You hit the nail on the head. Nolan is not a journalists or reporter or an interviewer. He is a showman. If I want to see the’ Biggest show in Town’ I go to the circus.

    • daniel moran May 15, 2014 at 12:56 pm #

      MM Besides which, Nolan should know that if Norn Iron were actually it couldn’t be in the UK which has only regions. Of course England and Scotland were countries in their own right until the act of 1707while it’s about 700 years since Wales was independent. NI never was a country at any point in history.

      • neill May 15, 2014 at 12:59 pm #

        Neither was South Sudan it is now though

        • Antonio May 15, 2014 at 5:14 pm #

          Neill

          The point Daniel & Maggie are making is that Northern Ireland is not a country. It is a region of the U.K and therefore is not an equivalence of South Sudan which has been an independent sovereign state since the people of Sudan voted to partition their country in a referendum and establish two independent countries much like the Czechs & Slovaks did in 1993.
          If Scotland votes for independence then it will become a country proper but until it does then it is a nation yes, but not a country in the proper sense of the word. The country is the United Kingdom which consists of four constituent parts England, Scotland, Wales & N.Ireland.
          If S.Nolan wants to continually refer to Northern Ireland as ‘the country’ then that is his prerogative but the factually inaccuracy of it beggars believe.

  2. Gerard May 15, 2014 at 12:00 pm #

    I believe the Nolan radio show is to reconciliation what arsonists are to a hay shed. He is more interesting in a slabbering match than actually getting to the crux of any issue. An often heard line from him, say in relation to Belfast city councillors or MLAs, is why are they arguing about flags when they should be concentrating on investment, health, education etc.
    In fact 99% of issues at council and assembly level deal with these crucial matters BUT it is Nolan who brings them on to debate said issues like flags etc.
    Why? Because it leads to an on the air slabbering match where Nolan attempts to take the high moral ground. Sooner he departs to a full time roll on a radio station/show in Britain the better. Crawley is streets ahead of him when it comes to dealing with sensitive issues.

  3. myles sweeney May 15, 2014 at 12:04 pm #

    I fell asleep shouting at the Tv: Was this statement about peter’s decrying the UDA actually published anywhere ( I have searched all morning), looked like a very bulky “spinners” handbook which Stephen was under the Shinners nose?

    • giordanobruno May 16, 2014 at 6:39 am #

      myles
      It’s right there on the DUP website. Took me 2 minutes.
      You are welcome.

  4. neill May 15, 2014 at 12:26 pm #

    Jude I hope you enjoyed your last appearance on the Nolan Show it might very well have been your last!

    • Jude Collins May 15, 2014 at 1:56 pm #

      Neill I don’t express views that I hope will win favour. I express views because I believe them.

      • neill May 15, 2014 at 2:22 pm #

        Jude you have all the qualities that would make you a great martyr

        • Jude Collins May 15, 2014 at 5:08 pm #

          Oh dear Neill. I’m getting worried about you. So when people speak or write what they believe to be true they are ‘martyrs’? What kind of people are you keeping company with??

      • William Fay May 16, 2014 at 11:14 am #

        I would suggest, Jude, that you express views of any sort, as long as they are anti-unionist, not sure you understand the words moderate and rational.

      • jack motta May 17, 2014 at 7:45 am #

        I wonder do you also believe your laughable claim that Martin McGuinness has consistently condemned Republican violence.

  5. Brian Patterson May 15, 2014 at 1:20 pm #

    Nolan can be sharp at times and hit the nail on the head. But the show has undeniably ( like most BBC/UTV productions a soft unionist underbelly, replete as it is with references to “our wee country” “the province” even “a united Northern Ireland”. Dunseith was scrupulously fair and strictly neutral. Suaimhneas ar a anam.

  6. M Campbell May 15, 2014 at 2:25 pm #

    Hi Jude,
    I’d like to point out that the article that Pat Sheean was confronted with was a written report in some newspaper somewhere , what was missed, was what the majority of nationalists , who where watching the Nolan show and screaming at the TV, why doesn’t Peter Robinson stand in front of reporters on UTV news, BBC news and publicly condemn the UVF, loud and clear, hopefully as loud as he did about the OTRs. I won’t hold my breath

    • William Fay May 16, 2014 at 11:17 am #

      “a written report in some newspaper somewhere”, good research, ha, can me have some more of this informed comment please.

  7. Norma wilson May 15, 2014 at 2:44 pm #

    @GerryKellyMLA: At Long Kesh/Maze. Sinn Fein Stand at Balmoral Show. Almost home sweet home. It was harder to get in than it was to get out last time:) #fb

    Then you have the bandsmen pissing round the place. Ignorant no brainers.

    Then you have DFM MMcG having the cheek to preach to any one, when it was violence, that got him and his crew, exactly were they are to-day!

    There is no sanity left in this country, Gerry Kelly boasting like that, on the police board, riding on land rovers! No respect for the prison officer, that he shot in the face.

  8. Norma wilson May 15, 2014 at 2:55 pm #

    Sorry Jude

    Forgot to mention for what it is worth,
    I don’t rate Stephen with a P Nolan. I think he is cocky and full of himself.

    • Jude Collins May 15, 2014 at 5:11 pm #

      I actually quite like Stephen, Norma. And you don’t pull mass audiences by accident. I’m simply pointing out the dangers of his style of programme: the genuinely popular and insightful can easily slip to the genuinely popular and comic-book…

  9. paddykool May 15, 2014 at 6:43 pm #

    Jude :
    We’ve probably had this conversation about Mr. Nolan before. He’s basically a shock jock . He likes to get a good row going and that’s obviously what his audience enjoy and tune in to hear. We’ll all agree that he’ll never have the intellectual heft of of William Crawley or David Dunseith….come to think of it, remember Barry Cowan, too ? These are/were men steeped in historical detail . Mr Nolan was hardly even born when the Troubles began or was a small child, so he would have no memory of the atmosphere and mores of that time.That stifling paranoia that never shows up in newsreels. The fear when a taxi- full of strangers beckoned you over to the car…none of that…

    Basically everything he knows of those times will always be second hand..Maggie May gets it right this time …It’s a bit of a circus . There’ll be a little acrimonious bitching to begin before they cram on the clowns or some other part of the freakshow. Last night we had just that..
    A bit of “Whataboutery ” and bitching , a little interjecting , blowing smoke up a Shinners arse for a bit,…a bunch of singing priests putting the sanctimony into that old show tune of Rodgers & Hammerstein’s from their musical “Carousel” ..No we’ll never Walk Alone Again……..and murdering it .I went to bed when the “bra lady ” started to flirt with the host…. It was getting really gruesome and they were probably lining up some poor cancer patient for us all to get teary over…or some two-headed duck to quack in stereo….None of this is a mystery to me because Mr.NOlan {If you listen to his banter on radio} knows very little about culture. He has no idea about music and comes across something like those people who pride themselves as never having read a book since they left school.. a prideful boast…..I think he recently “discovered” the late Elvis Presley , for instances. somehow he has been educated but a whole lot of cultural signposts have been bypassed

    There was a bit of a barney as whether or not Peter Robinson actually denounced those bad boy Loyalists or not . Mr. Nolan seemed to think so but the Shinner wasn’t so sure. I’m not too sure myself .I do remember an awful lot of dithering from Peter and the DUP when the Alliance[their local opposition] offices were torched and when the cop car was bombed…and during the flag nonsense that erupted into violence. He didn’t nail any of those buffoons hard enough. Everyone remembers that poor demented woman raving “No Surrender” through the door panes that became a YOUTUBE sensation but nobody seems to remember Peter on film making a real stand against those supposedly defunct loyalist groups.

    .Give Marty his due …he came out and denounced any violence .He outright called it a used -up item ……pointless now in the 21st century, given that the way we are now is so much different to what it was in the past..It is… He said that the Dissidents were basically crackers in this present climate. The iRA no longer exist anyway..There’s just a small group of malcontents who believe that they are still in the mid 20th century.They are gone!

    Peter needed to say the same about the UVF and the UDA at the same time but i can’t remember that happening . Maybe he did it when I was on holiday …I just don’t remember him standing four square and doing it on film.Himself and Marty should be absolutely on this same page now.They both came to their powerful positions on the back of violent acts{that’s right Norma} There’s not a party other than the SDLP who didn’t court violent men and that includes the forming OUP and the DUP . .Sinn Fein made no bones about their origins in violence but the DUP and the OUP seem to have forgotten about their gun -running and their huge apoplectic rallies violently vehement about any change in their wee Northern Ireland…even if it is a “legal” change.

    .Lest we forget that their original majority and their “Wee Ulster” was cobbled together and carved into being by chopping off three of the original Ulster counties so that there would never be enough Nationalists within it to upset their little apple cart. I dare say that if their backs are to the wall again they’ll have a go at UDI for three counties or try to join up those three counties with Scotland in another “Union”…anything but a union with the Irish Republic for some reason..

    . They appear to play lip- service to politics as opposed to violence as long as the deck is stacked in their favour. Every time there is a political change not to their liking , there’s an unholy row about taking away their “culture” …whatever that really is. Nobody knows that one either, much as Nolan wouldn’t know his Skip James from his Schubert…..

    • Pointis May 16, 2014 at 7:37 am #

      Excellent piece Paddycool! Hit the nail square on the head!

    • William Fay May 16, 2014 at 11:23 am #

      paddy, are the provies defunct, as bobby storey said last week, “we haven’t gone away you know”.

  10. ANOTHER JUDE May 15, 2014 at 7:10 pm #

    Peter can not condemn the loyalists, how can he, he is one himself. A man who has used physical force to get where he is today, a man who wore sunglasses right through the seventies and eighties despite the weather here being tepid at best. A man who has given court references on behalf of gun runners and terrorist psychopaths, a man who has shaken the hands of people who have practically decapitated Catholic civilians. A man who can be seen on good old YOUTUBE refusing to condemn the Brits` favourite group the UDA as terrorists. Anyone remember the case of the Paris Three? Kenny McClinton? George Seawright? Strange bedfellows for a self proclaimed `democrat`.

  11. michael c May 15, 2014 at 8:12 pm #

    When Nolan is cornered he shuts the conversation down.I remember a caller bringing up the subject of BBC presenters being forced to wear poppies.Nolan was having none of it,would’nt let the caller continue with his point and promptly moved onto another subject.

  12. Norma wilson May 15, 2014 at 8:29 pm #

    Yes Paddykool
    You are one hundred percent correct. I am not and never have been a lover of the DUP!
    If I had a pound for every time I have said, bloody Ian Paisley lead many a good man astray, with his ranting and raving!

    I grimaced when I saw him and Trimble dancing going down the Gavaghy Road. By the way I could have sorted that out immediately. The residents would have needed to present proof of residency, this would qualified them for a fort nights holiday with a thousand pound spends threw in!
    It was a lot cheaper than the policing bill, and you can bet your bottom dollar they would have re-routed.
    I don’t rate any of them up on the hill, I really am fed up with the whole lot.
    Question for you? Do you think Ireland will ever be at peace?

  13. paddykool May 15, 2014 at 9:35 pm #

    : Since i was very young i’ve always loved W.B. Yeats line in “The Lake Isle of Inisfree”…

    ..”…for peace comes dropping slow”

    .In fact it is probably a favourite poem..

    So will Ireland ever be at peace? you ask…. You might ask ….was anywhere ever really at peace. There’s no magic in it. it’s all in our individual heads and even in the most horrific times we’ve each of us managed to grasp a little of it now and again.Despite what the media would have us believe, even throughout the Troubles, lives and loves and good times continued here and there.. We weren’t all constantly gnawing at this little nutrition-free bone of Northern Irish discontent.

    It also depended on where you lived throughout those troubled times .I daresay many in Northern Ireland were untouched by much of the terror and madness, depending on where they were….possibly far away from the worst of it in the countryside… or what their interests were….or simply what kind of person and what kinds of friends they had..

    During 1972 to 1977 I was too busy tripping on LSD and smoking all kinds of great hashish with my art school girlfriend in Leeds to worry too much about what Gerry Adams and all the rest were doing in Ireland .I was more interested in Picasso’s death in 1973 or going to see Crosby Stills Nash and Neil Young at Wembley or the Pink Floyd at Knebworth to care what was happening in the latest chapter of madness back home ..It was being reported in the underground press and that’s mostly where we kept pace….

    Forty years ago , as now, people had interests other than the Troubles , the Vietnam War and all the rest.There was family , friends and hitch= hiking through europe too.
    So “peace” is a very nebulous concept .If Ireland were to be united tomorrow we’d still be the same bunch of malcontented people rubbing along , paying the bills, living our lives ….inside our own worlds …inside our own heads…Uniting Ireland isn’t a magic bullet{ If you’ll pardon the expression}..

    Getting back to Yeats. His poem so impressed mel….like a Picasso painting ….that between it and reading the “Whole Earth Catalogue” [A sort of hippy precursor to the Internet} i was persuaded some forty years ago to take up beekeeping.I didn’t get around to it until about four years ago but that’s where I now find my peace.

    THE LAKE ISLE OF INNISFREE

    By William Butler Yeats

    I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree,
    And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made;
    Nine bean rows will I have there, a hive for the honeybee,
    And live alone in the bee-loud glade.
    And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow,
    Dropping from the veils of the morning to where the cricket sings;
    There midnight’s all a-glimmer, and noon a purple glow,
    And evening full of the linnet’s wings.

    I will arise and go now, for always night and day
    I hear lake water lapping with low sounds by the shore;
    While I stand on the roadway, or on the pavements gray,
    I hear it in the deep heart’s core.

    Everyone has to figure their own peace out for themselves….That’s the bottom line.

    • William Fay May 16, 2014 at 11:33 am #

      Remorse for Intemperate Speech

      I ranted to the knave and fool,
      But outgrew that school,
      Would transform the part,
      Fit audience found, but cannot rule
      My fanatic heart.
      I sought my betters: though in each
      Fine manners, liberal speech,
      Turn hatred into sport,
      Nothing said or done can reach
      My fanatic heart,
      Out of Ireland have we come.
      Great hatred, little room,
      Maimed us at the start.
      I carry from my mother’s womb
      A fanatic heart.

      Much more apt paddy

  14. Anthony May 16, 2014 at 7:38 am #

    NI is not a country, its just ignorance of Unionist not to face the fact that NI has no right to call itself a country.
    Legally the UK is comprising the countries of Scotland and England and the principality of Wales and NI has always being classed as a province within the UK, it has never been a country.

  15. Alan May 16, 2014 at 10:59 am #

    Nolan never stops saying “this country” as though by saying it enough times people might actually believe it. People with no brain or knowledge of international realities might.

    The UK itself designates Northern Ireland as a province; it never has been and never will be a “country” except in the fantasy of unionists. Ask them if they want Northern Ireland to actually become a country by declaring independence and you’ll see their jaws drop.

    It all just highlights the confused state they live in – they don’t even know what their country is so they have to pretend their province is their country.

  16. michael c May 16, 2014 at 11:45 am #

    Someone who has taken part in Nolans programme told me that he is very dependant on his sidekicks and without them he would be floundering.He was caught out again this morning when he tried to bully a caller who disputed the costs of not introducing welfare reform.The caller who was opposed to welfare reform refused to be shouted down calmly read figures from a document which showed Nolan to be totally at sea.He was totally wrongfooted by not knowing the details of the issue and promptly moved on to the next caller.

  17. Norma wilson May 16, 2014 at 1:58 pm #

    PaddyKoolI

    I went to England too at 16, Hunts Cross in Liverpool. I wanted to go San Francisco, or Woodstock. I wanted to marry PAUL McCartney and have all his babies.
    I was not here for the darkest years. The workers strike, I never really cared what my family had to cope with, I was young the troubles were just an annoyance, that people asked you about.
    Your poem was beautiful, like you I am now listening to Mozart, chilling out. Who’d have thought, when I was a trendy dude in my bell bottoms, or hot pants.
    I want this country to be at peace, I have witnessed celebrations in the states, France. South Africa, and the later, there was no victory over one side or the other. They are are French American African, and we are all Irish.
    Cheers Norma

  18. paddykool May 16, 2014 at 3:22 pm #

    William :
    Fair enough William , Given that a lot of Irish people, particularly those who feel abandoned by their southern neighbours , carry that monkey of an oppressed and downtrodden people on their backs…There’s nothing like it for fomenting fanatical idealism, I suppose. The poem , though, doesn’t offer that perfect transcendent peace that the “Lake Isle ” encapsulates like a perfect painting by Picasso or Monet, in a quiet corner of a gallery.

  19. William Fay May 16, 2014 at 6:22 pm #

    Poor oppressed downtrodden people, please don’t make me laugh, at one stage I thought you were being serious, keep up the humour.

  20. paddykool May 16, 2014 at 7:33 pm #

    William :

    you’ve gotten the wrong end of the stick again. ..we’re talking about a what a lot of people believe….not what you or I believe…

    “Yeats ‘ poem, is a lament on the anger and hatred that the Irish cannot ever really let go of; an inheritance of injustice and righteous resistance carried on for so long that it continues to tear at generation after generation.”
    He refers to :

    “Spectres of bloody battles past make it almost impossible for the Irish to set aside their uncontrollable anger and fanaticism buried deep in the culture. A fanaticism, at times, more damning than the original plundering English oppression, very nearly creating a permanent impediment to making peace with themselves or with their past.”

    That is what your referred poem “Remorse for Intemperate Speech” is actually considering. The poem you suggested as a reference to “peace”?. That choice is your call completely ….not mine.. You brought it and all those associations to the feast …not me.

    My choice , in reference to “peace” was “The Lake Isle of Inisfree”….remember?
    The poem is Yeats’ referencing Henry thoreau’ “back to nature” philosophy…really an early believer in the hippy ideal…You should read “Leaves of Grass” and stop beating me up with a stick I didn’t cut .

  21. paddykool May 16, 2014 at 11:11 pm #

    William : To the public outside the tight little cliques of Belfast republicanism, someone like this Storey character with his little dark moronic noisy joke means nothing .To a generation born after the Troubles for instance, he’ s probably seen as some old noisy fart …they know very little about.

    Like I say …it’s irrelevant. These old guys are allowed to crow but everyone knows they are nowhere.”We haven’t gone away” is a bullshit line….like the old soldier remembering the”War”….he’s allowed to drunkenly crow like an old rooster but his time is gone.He’s in the same bracket as that old buffer Gibson from the Orange Order who thinks he’s still in the 20th century.
    Let’s get real ….there is no IRA any more. If you lived through the years from 1968 to the present…and I don’t know if you have or not because you never give anything like a detail of your thought process to work on…..you’d know in your bones that the republican movement have no need of an armed militia.What’s in question is whether loyalism has those needs now…
    We know that the IRA is gone and that Sinn Fein are building a political base with new people who never had a connection with the IRA but all we are seeing from loyalism is the same old paranoia….bleeding into arrant racism on the streets.

  22. Virginia May 17, 2014 at 12:48 am #

    Curran is an excellent writer, well crafted and stoic.

  23. michael c May 17, 2014 at 11:02 am #

    Paddy ,sorry to contradict you but Storey is a legend among republicans throughout Ireland.

  24. paddykool May 17, 2014 at 3:04 pm #

    A legend in his own lunchtime , then, eh Michael.? Legends are two-a-penny these days anyway .Look at the garbage people lap up on a day to day basis….The same people who can make a star out of an X-Factor contestant can make a celebrity out of anyone..There are very few “legends” or as my mate would have it ..”leg- ends” in my book. especially mouthy graceless ones like yer man……

  25. michael c May 17, 2014 at 4:01 pm #

    The likes of Breen and Barry were legends for generations .Big Bob is cut from the same cloth and your response shows that you inhabit a somewhat middle class planet where the likes of Storey should know his place.

    • William Fay May 18, 2014 at 9:28 am #

      Yes Michael, another on a long list of republican murderers.

  26. paddykool May 17, 2014 at 6:24 pm #

    Michael :

    That’s completely inaccurate in so many ways .Because I choose not to glorify or beatify a man for just being the kind of guy he is, does not make me suddenly middle-class…living some rarified life..

    Here are a few things to chew over . Mr. Storey is where he is because of a unique set of circumstances which conspired to have him born in a particular place , in a particular family , right in the epicentre of a social conflict at a very specific time.. He was gaoled as were many of his contemporaries , either because of his republican connections or possibly his actual “actions” within that movement . .All of that set him on a particular road. He spent an inordinate chunk of his life behind bars and i dare say there were probably times when he wished he’d been born anywhere else but this place. If that makes him a hero in someones eyes , so be it ….”Legend” , if you will. I have had neighbours gunned down by heroes…no time for taking them to court …just ambush and shoot them down on the streets…It’s quicker . All heroes of course. …both the killers and the killed…

    During that same period I came from a working-class family[yes , my dad was a bricklayer and stonemason, Michael} and went to school with among many others, two fellows from a staunch republican family , later very high -profile -guys, who went on to join the INLA and were both killed in circumstances of a shoot- to kill scenario which was investigated by John Stalker. Yes TV programmes and all……I have friends too who were protestants who were also killed because the only job they could get at the time was in the police. None of these guys were “heroes” or “legends”. They were just guys I ‘d maybe shared a teenage joint with back in the late 1960’s. .They didn’t breathe rarified air and fart perfume but each of them knew all about guns and weaponry and that’s how they met their deaths.

    Again, they weren’t “heroes” or “legends”. They were just “ordinary ” men that had been radicalised by their situations or their influences.Out of that entire classroom another fellow went on to photograph the Troubles as a “War photographer ” for Pacemaker Press. His photos make it look like Sarajevo

    During that time , I, like a lot of my contemporaries got on with our education for a few years either here or in England {just as their children do now} and gradually slipped into the workaday world …. and the grind of a succession of different kinds of jobs….everything from working in offices, factories or running a shop… building a house ..as well as all the other creative crap that I get up to

    .All those nurses and various ordinary folk who had responsibilities and family to feed throughout the Troubles made choices too. They didn’t do anything that would endanger their family if at all possible ,… but they worked their asses off while guys like your mate Bobby languished in gaol twiddling his thumbs and making plans.

    We all make choices or choices are made for us but I think anyone who managed to raise a family of sane children throughout the past forty-odd years is more of a hero than these guys some would hope to sanctify.

    I have a very pragmatic view of things as you can see.

    Just imagine all these” heroes “getting their trousers on first thing in the morning…
    These legends zipping up their flies..Are they better or worse than any of us?

    .We all know our place , Michael Mr. Storey knows his too and he made his choices or had them made for him….

    .We’re just one or two steps up from monkeys….All that “class” crap was put to rest in that famous John Cleese , Ronnie Barker sketch that Marty Feldman wrote way back in the 1960’s . Monty Python then fitted it for a tin hat…

    it shouldn’t figure at all in any educated man’s thinking.

  27. michael c May 17, 2014 at 7:24 pm #

    Paddy,do you not agree that Breen and Barry were legends. They certainly were as far as me and most people I know are concerned.If Storey cannot be described in similar terms ,maybe you can tell me how he differs.By the way “all that class crap” does figure in my thinking because I wouldn’t be what you describe as”educated”

  28. paddykool May 17, 2014 at 8:03 pm #

    Michael : No , i might respect particular qualities in a person, but I ‘d always be wary of putting anyone on a pedestal and calling them a legend .We usually find that our heroes have feet of clay..Breen and Barry were just men like you and me. They all die and are buried in the same way and then they are gone. People then make myths out of them . People live to have heroes, they’ll always create idols;;;;

    As far as being educated is concerned . You only have to open your eyes and read ,read ,read …Everything else is personal insecurity. It’s not much different than a beautiful woman worrying about her looks or some tiny imperfection that she magnifies out of all proportion.
    They’ll always ask” is my bum too big in this ?” They don’t want to hear the truth so no one tells them it anyway.
    .
    Bob Dylan put it like this …”don’t follow leaders …and watch the parking meters”…..

    In other words , think for yourself …no one has the qualities that you have..they’re always selling you a line anyway…Of course they are….

    Getting back to your “legends”…nobody outside a very narrow circle will know what you are talking about if you mention their names. …Maybe if they’ve seen the “Michael Collins” movie of some years back they might have some inkling who he was …but even that movie isn’t the whole truth. It’s always only a little snapshot..

    To give you a flavour of what I mean , watch the film “The Man who Shot Liberty Valance”…
    …not to spoil the plot in any way… and to paraphrase the telling line is ..”If the truth don’t fit , Print the Legend”…that about sums up my point of view …Ask the hard questions and ask yourself …Do you really believe the answers you are getting?

  29. wolfe tone May 18, 2014 at 2:54 pm #

    Nolan is just another mike nesbitt masquerading as an impartial journalist when hes working in the media. He has more in common with those loyalists he likes to scold on his show than he cares to admit. Like other ‘moderate’ unionists they like to put on a front of tolerance and respect. All in an effort to convert/convince/dupe irish people they are really ‘northern irish’. All in an effort in preparing the ground for future referenda on irish reunification.

    I read a newspaper interview recently where Nolan was told 10 years ago, that a bbc executive said they ‘would never employ Nolan’. I wonder why they changed their minds? It isnt for his talent thats for sure. Didnt mi5 have a say in the vetting of BBC employees? Wheres william fays ‘research’ when you need it ; )

    • William Fay May 18, 2014 at 6:24 pm #

      wolf, it’s great to see you’re blessed with the talent of mind-reading. How do you actually work out that these moderate unionists who put on a front or actually raging bigots, next thing people will say that you are a middle of the road, fair thinking individual. Surely you are not hiding the real persona, that really would distress me.

      • wolfe tone May 18, 2014 at 8:34 pm #

        William you sound distressed already. I have told you before i am an unrepentant republican and have never hidden that fact.
        I think you will find unionist/bigot go hand in hand; its their culture william as you well know. Thats the main reason they ignore the still existing rabid british militia of the UDA etc. You see william if the ‘moderates of unionism’ cant sweet talk irish people to reject irish reunification in any future referenda then their militia, who they claim they have nothing to do with (no laughing at the back) will go to work on the irish via the threat and acts of violence. A sort of ‘good cop bad cop’ routine which i am positive you would be familiar with. ; ). Democracy, british style.

  30. William Fay May 18, 2014 at 8:43 pm #

    wolfie, why don’t we just leave it that all unionists are bigots and all republicans are fair minded people,

  31. paddykool May 18, 2014 at 10:48 pm #

    William : Frankly Your one – line answers are adding little of any substance to the debate . You constantly dissemble but explain absolutely nothing.

    You make wooly statements and when you are questioned in any detail , you have no rational answers or coherent comebacks. You brought in a whole raft of insecurities in reference to Yeats @ poetry earlier on but completely missed the references. when questioned further about re-writing of Irish history which i’ve lived through, you had nothing to say which makes me think you really have nothing to say because you have no first -hand experience to parlay…..

    Then when Wolfe makes a comen tyou answer again with another one -liner.
    You’ll have to make a ittle effort , William, else you’ll be totally ignored in future .
    I want to see a bit of thought here , otherwise why would you ever bother at all ?