That mass-handbags imbroglio on Sunday before the Armagh-Cavan game: truly disgraceful, wasn’t it? Oisin McConville says if there are suspensions he’ll support that decision. Scenes like last Sunday’s are not what he wants his child to see. Apparently the punch-up started when the Armagh players were lined up in front of the Cavan flag. Whatever the reason for it, everyone is agreed it’s not the kind of thing the GAA wants to see: it brings shame on the organisation, it provides a bad example to young players, and it’s against the whole spirit of healthy competitiveness the GAA seeks to foster. One Cavan player was unable to take part in the match and it’s believed he has a broken bone in his hand.
Is there any consolation to be drawn from this whole sorry affair? Well yes. Nobody died out there. It all took place within the football ground – the violence remained in-house. It was over inside a few minutes. The police didn’t have to be called and they weren’t even used to help steward within the ground. Neither team nor its supporters tried to leave the ground and conduct a march through the opposing county, complete with county colours and flags.
Set that alongside the activities of an organisation some unionists like to compare with the GAA: the Orange Order. In 2012, the Loyal Orders and the broad Unionist tradition held 2,493 marches. There were 550 parades on the Twelfth of July alone in 2013. In 2011 over £5 million was spent on security around loyalist summer marches. In 2012 Parades Commission Chairman Peter Osborne said over £7m was spent . And the Twadell camp, which was established because Orangemen were banned from parading past the shops at Ardoyne – it’s cost £300,000 a week since last 12 July.
That’s cost. Now a very short history of Orange Order violence in more recent years:
1995: Violent protests were held throughout the north when police blocked an Orange Order march near Portadown. The police eventually backed down and the march was held through Portadown’s mainly Catholic district.
1999: On 12 July three Catholic boys were killed when their Ballymoney home was set alight by loyalists.
2000: Two people were killed and more than 20 RUC officers injured. A man was shot dead at an Eleventh Night bonfire in Larne. Another man was critically injured in East Belfast.
2009:Fr Gary Donegan of Holy Cross parish in Belfast was assaulted by a rioter as he tried to restore peace around Ardoyne.
2013: More than 30 police officers and MP Nigel Dodds were injured during six hours of rioting in Belfast. Clashes developed when police enforced a ban on an Orange Order march in the north of the city.
Put that way, the disorder at the Armagh Athletic Grounds on Sunday was indeed minor. That’s not to say such conduct is to be condoned: personally, I hope they disqualify both teams from further participation in this year’s Championship. But there’s such a thing as bringing disorder and disgrace on your organisation. And then there’s belonging to an organisation in which, throughout its history, disorder and lethal violence are endemic.
*Round of Applause*
Grma, RJC
Jude, I see the Brits are at it again. They’ve sneaked into West Belfast and carried out a racial attack on a defenceless immigrant from Africa, and have stitched up a few of the locals. It couldn’t have involved the good people of the west, after all bigotry and racism is only part of the loyalist DNA. Don’t hear much from wolfe, paddy and the rest, why am I not surprised?
So anyway Jude …what was this punch up all about anyway? Did somebody call somebody else A Big Girl’s Blouse , or what? I suppose punching someone in the hard, bony head would give yo a broken hand alright. It’s not like in the movies, after all where the punches whack and the beer bottles break harmlessly into harmless pieces..
The comparison between the GAA and the Orange Order was always a bit of a non-starter , really , unless the GAA decides to play football matches in the middle of the streets sometime soon.
With jumpers for goal-posts and shirts for sashes…?
Ha !!
Hi Jude, I’ve just worked out what happened. It was the Brits again, they had a number of paid agents amongst the players, who whispered sweet nothings in their ears and the whole thing kicked off.
I must admit, I was quite impressed with the way you managed to shift the story on to the Prods. Just as a matter of interest, a good piece of research would be how many republican terrorists were members of the GAA, how many weapons and how much explosives were found in GAA property, ah sorry again, I keep forgetting, that would have been the Brits, wouldn’t it!
Methinks it is time to ban the cliche. Consider the number of politicians who are being urged to step up to the plate and take advantage of a window of opportunity to deal with, “the past” before the marching season starts in earnest? Someone should tell them that the window has been smashed and boarded up. Do you not remember the good old days? Remember the time when streets were decorated with bunting, crowds gathered from early morning to watch the parades, street vendors sold ice cream and other refreshments and the R.U.C. made sure that no one crossed the road during a parade. It made for a carnival atmosphere. Why did the people looking for Civil Rights have to go an spoil things? The carnival atmosphere resulted in a Commission of Inquiry into Riots and Disturbances in Derry in 1869, (correct date). It was necessary to ban parades in the past. Try going out today to park your caravan on private property belonging to the Housing Executive. Try burning a tyre in your backyard. If one has to purchase a tyre today, it will be necessary to pay towards the disposal of the old tyre. It would appear that someone is making a nice little profit during the bonfire season. We now have irrefutable evidence about harmful carcinogens released into the atmosphere from bonfires. Who is living in the past?
8-12 week bans for main culprit(s) will suffice-a lot worse happens at club games where invariably some neanderthal “supporters” sucker punch a defenceless player/referee.
Roll on Clare v Cork next Sunday-Tiob abu!
Keep up the good work,Mr. Collins.
It was definitely handbags and nothing to get worked up about. It was more embarrassing than shocking the way the players were behaving. Most people I saw were laughing at them.
Terrible scenes at athletic grounds no one supports that. If BBC are able to show TV coverage of such events could they not go one step further and actually show the game for the many thousands of TV license payers who support gaa and expect to see their sport on television.
More fool anyone who is still paying the British governments propaganda tv station. Any Irish person paying into that scam is like a turkey voting for Xmas.
Ach Jude
When I looked up ‘whataboutery’ in the dictionary today, it had a copy of this article as an example.
But it would be a good slogan I suppose
“The GAA. Not as bad as The Orange Order!”
Ach gio – I wouldn’t have drawn the comparison except that unionist politicians have a habit of doing just that every so often. The differences are so enormous I can never quite figure why they don’t blush or people don’t bust a gut laughing at the parallel.
Brilliant, we do not use the dictionary like we used to, well done.
Och ferjaysusake, it was only a bit of pushing and shoving between two hyped-up groups of young men.
Why Jude, would you wish to see both counties expelled from the Championship? That would be a scandalously disproportionate reaction. Would the intention be to appease those who hate the GAA anyway? Because I assure you, they would not be appeased.
I was at the game, saw the whole thing. No-one was traumatised. As soon as it was over, it was forgotten about – apart from the jokes that were soon flying around about orangemen fighting over flags and parades.
The atmosphere in the Athletic Grounds was electric. And the game itself was good, tough, Ulster stuff, without a dirty stroke from either team.
But I suspected there’d be another tedious bloody moral panic, with pious attacks on the GAA from people who weren’t at the game and wouldn’t darken the door of a GAA ground in their lives.
And sure enough, the moral panickers did not disappoint.
I have no regard for moral panics. I despise moral panickers. I hope the GAA takes the sensible course and ignores them.
Comparisons between the Orange Order and GAA are an ancient tactic employed by unionists to both defame the GAA and to deflect criticisms of the OO. (Because Orangemen and Orange sympathisers never, ever want to talk about the Orange itself. Which I have always read as a tacit acknowledgement of the sheer iniquity of the OO.)
Similarities between the GAA and OO are superficial, the differences are profound.
Good and evil are similar in that they are both moral positions. The GAA and Orange Order are similar like good and evil are similar.
Gio does have a point Dr C.
The OO does not pretend to be open and people highlight its anti-Catholic stance, controversy and general idiocy whenever the occasion presents itself (which is frequently).
The GAA on the other hand is a sporting organisation.
A sporting organisation which (in the north) draws its players almost exclusively from people of one particular religious background.
Surely this is something that needs to be addressed?
Now, as with most topics where perception is important, the default argument is “well, it’s the prods you see, they’re just so narrow minded…”
Where then is the logic in pursuing an ‘ain’t broke – don’t fix’ policy IF the huns are so narrow minded?
Hmmmmmm?
Are Irish culture and Irish nationalism one and the same ? – No (obviously, go through the books of advocates of Irish culture and I’m sure we’ll find people who weren’t nationalists Edward Carson, James Joyce, Lord Downshire….)
Is there a theme of Irish nationalism to the GAA?
If so, what purpose does this serve in a modern society (where half of the country are suspicious/hostile to nationalism)?
Would the sport suffer if certain things were changed e.g. no need to fly the tricolour at certain games or play the Soldier’s Song?
Surely the potential recruitment boost to the Ulster GAA would boost the sports potential (a la http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/schoolchildren-play-hurling-game-in-loyalist-heartland-28628903.html)?
Much ado is made about Kevin Lynch GAC, but, as far as I can see they’re maybe the only one named after someone controversial so yes, many of the punches that unionists try to land on the GAA fall short.
But the point remains it has an image problem with most of the northern Protestants.
It would be very difficult to change this image given how many will be hostile to the game regardless of what the GAA does but of the main things that can be done, well, how many people are willing to push them through?
We know how important/off putting flegs and anthems are to people in NI so perhaps those are the areas that the GAA should concentrate on IF it really wants to bring in northern Protestants from the cold.
Naming a cup after Edward Carson and name dropping him a lot won’t help the matter.
Also, as part of my never ending broken record, merging a few primary schools around the country (in Castledawson, Bellaghy, Desertmartin, Moneymore…) and giving them the option of playing Gaelic games would help expose Protestants to this game at a young age as opposed to the current set up which revolves around NEVER exposing them to it and reinforcing the suspicions that many people feel towards the game.
Yes yes, I know some Protestant parents would spit the dummy out, but if they don’t like it then they can send their kids to private school, other wise let the state school cater for people of the state,
Am Ghob :
Good points as usual, Am Ghob…It all starts at school. Before the Troubles started in the late 1960’s, we had gaelic football as part of the sports /athletic ethos of our school. Of course there was basketball and all the rest too. There was no cricket or rugby. Our protestant friends played those games at their school but we were never taught them.
I recently found myself asking my daughter’s partner what a “Silly Mid Off” actually was. It always sounded pretty exotic.Basketball was the place where both schools{of thought} mixed in competition.. It was probably where some cross-community friendships were made too.Soccer was played outside school by everyone and of course ,George Best was a big hero across the board.
Gaelic football wasn’t for everyone , even then. Some of my friends were really good at it and became county stars, but it was a tough , hard mucky, game….and very skillful too, so you had to have both the athleticism and the heft to play it well. Putting on those hard cold unforgiving boots {in those days} and getting seven bells knocked out of you on the winter pitch wasn’t for everyone. It certainly wasn’t something this skinny blade looked forward to by any means . It was one thing watching it .It’s quite another being fed to those particular lions.
The GAA is a sectarian bigoted organisation that is cut from exactly the same cloth as the Orange Order. They make no effort to be cross community, and I would suggest they try the exact opposite. Numerous clubs and competitions are named after terrorists that tell us their ethos, they don’t want Protestants to take part. The reality is it is a poor game that needs thuggery to make it watchable, I never was sure why they had a goalie when you can use any method to score a goal, including throwing, punching, or whatever, at least hurling has some level of skill. There is no other sport in the country that recruits virtually all it’s members from one side of the community – standby for the naming of the token prod here and there.
William,
Your quote, “The GAA is a sectarian bigoted organisation”, Mmmmm!
That would all depend on ones perspective.
If a person were to come from an Irish /Irish Nationalist perspective then your assertion would certainly not be accepted.
If a person were to come from a typical world point then I suspect that your assertion would not be accepted.
If a person were to come from a position of having a deep suspicion, dislike or even hatred of all things Irish or associated with Irish Nationalist identity then I suspect your assertion would go down well, perhasps even with a little cheer!
Pointis, read my post again, especially the first line.
If the fans at Windsor were to continue singing sectarian songs they would quite rightly be banned. As GAA is largely an Irish sport, the governing body do not care or control the sectarian singing that goes on at most matches, deny it if you wish, I’ve heard it first hand.
AG
‘(The GAA) draws its players almost exclusively from people of one particular religious background. Surely this is something that needs to be addressed?’
In an ideal world, yes. But the GAA is getting along very well despite the unionist boycott and all the lies that are told about it. There were more spectators in Armagh on Sunday than have attended any NI ‘international’ (sic) since the days of Pat Jennings. (Who, incidentally, played minor with Armagh, before going on to lesser things.)
‘… perception is important…’
Last week a state primary school in Co Tyrone had to amend their school sports jerseys because parents were ‘offended’ by the sight of an O’Neill’s logo.
You may think the GAA has a responsibility to pretend there’s a rational basis for this ‘offence’. I disagree. This is madness and should be treated as such.
The unionist boycott of the GAA is part of a general boycott of all things Irish. People who hate the GAA tend not to be regular RTE viewers / listeners, or Irish-speakers, or readers of the Dublin newspapers, or fans of traditional Irish music. More commonly they’re the same people who cheer when Arlene Foster says she doesn’t know where Cork is.
This ignorance and misperception is consciously chosen and studiously cultivated.
Yet RTE is probably more hostile to republicanism than UTV or even BBCNI. The Irish Times is at least a quasi-unionist newspaper. The Independent group could teach the News Letter a thing or two about hostility to SF. The Dubliners did a great version of The Auld Orange Flute, if I’m not mistaken The Chieftains did The Sash. (Can anyone help me with a link?) They have a famous English Market in Cork, much enjoyed by ERII.
I don’t think Christy Moore should ditch the bodhrán and take up the Lambeg in order to make Planxty acceptable to unionists. I think unionists should open their ears and minds to the bodhrán.
Or miss out. Whatever.
The GAA, like the rest of Ireland, is moving on regardless.
The GAA cannot make the PUL community less bigoted.
Or more accurately, the GAA cannot weaken the ideological stranglehold that the most bigoted PULs exercise over their community.
Especially since the GAA is used by the supremacist extremes as a talisman with which to impose sectarian discipline on their own people.
Supremacism is a narcotic. The unionist community lately has been displaying the hallmarks of addiction. There comes a time with addicts when you have to stop enabling.
There’s a battle that needs to be fought by the better angels of the PUL community against the extremist elements who hold ideological supremacy. No-one else can fight that battle.
AG, I know you are one such better angel. I wish you well.
The GAA cannot make the PUL community less bigoted.
Of course you are right Catholics at no stage ever voted for a party that killed members of the above community did they? Thats right they are not bigoted at all….they just liked killing members of the PUL community.
AG, I know you are one such better angel. I wish you well.
Of course you like him he is a useful patsy (guilty prod) whats not do like him from your position?
‘Guilty prod’.
I read about another ‘guilty prod’ recently.
He was a playwright who didn’t want to turn his back on his working class roots, so he remained in Rathcoole.
Until they forced him out for his suspicious ‘taigy’ activities i.e. being involved in the arts and things that ‘themuns’ could enjoy.
Unionism has had decades to get its house in order.
It has not done so and deserves to be called out on it.
If I find such rich pickings within unionism’s ranks, well, it’s not my fault is it?
It does feel like a turkey shoot sometimes though…
Also, if the following are a list of ‘not-guilty Prods’ them excuse me if I don’t hang my head in shame:
Ian Paisley Snr, Jamie Bryson, Willie Frazer, George Seawright, Ian Paisley Jnr, Nelson McCausland, Edwin Poots, George Chittick, Robert Magee, Joel Patton, Sam McCrory…
Billy
How can you say that the GAA is doing fine with the unionist boycott as whenever the topic of the ‘unionist boycott’ there’s always frustration and hullabaloo?
Furthermore, would you not like to see it do better?
This is possible, but it needs a few hard decisions to be made.
There’s a sort of head-in-the-sand belief that everything will be OK the day the border disappears, I sometimes think it could go either way and indeed get worse IF certain things aren’t addressed.
For very little money, hassle and sacrifice (merging suitable primary schools and letting them play Gaelic games if they so wish and removing the nationalist element from the GAA) we could see the fortunes of the Ulster GAA further improve as well as help remove the paranoia/fear factor/hostility that many unionists have towards the GAA.
The problems in NI are one big vicious merry-go-round with numerous people pushing it along.
Yes, unionists are certainly doing their share of the pushing but this ‘ain’t broke don’t fix attitude to the GAA and schools is just as bad.
I know I bleat on constantly about this but that’s because I believe that many people see no harm in traditional nationalist viewpoints whereas I see many of these viewpoints as throwing fuel on the fire.
In NI not only do actions have reactions but so do ‘inactions’ and letting the GAA remain as it is is one of those inactions.
“There’s a battle that needs to be fought by the better angels of the PUL community against the extremist elements who hold ideological supremacy. No-one else can fight that battle.”
Well, Billy, we need help to be honest. Throw us a frickin’ bone here.
The set up at present (with or without the border) exacerbates everything, we need to curtail the elements that keep the sectarian momentum moving and that involves changes across the board.
Thank you for your kind words BTW.
Dammit, Janet. I forgot to mention the lambeg/Bodhran thingy.
Thanks to the likes of Willy Drennan (and his bodhran made from a lambeg) folk music is finally coming in from the cold.
And as you know, Linda Ervine is leading the Irish revival language wise.
So, there are people out there who are taking on the challenge but by Gads it could be made a lot easier for them if certain things weren’t in their way (SF publicly using Irish being one).
Also, just an anecdote for you:
Outwith NI I have no hostility towards the GAA whatsoever.
On the contrary I tried to join a GAA university club in Scotland (it couldn’t get off the ground though) and my brother is dabbling with the idea of joining a hurling club in the country he’s moved to.
But as soon as we’re back in NI there is NO QUESTION of joining the GAA whatsoever.
(And no, it’s not to avoid scorn from fellow prods, I would hope by this stage that you would have gathered I don’t give a monkey’s what they think of my ‘eccentricities’)
There is something not quite right up north and that is why I parrot on about making small concessions and sacrifices.
It certainly won’t cause an overnight stampede and will matter not a jot to the Jim Allisters of this world but it will make a difference to others.
William
‘The GAA is a sectarian bigoted organisation that is cut from exactly the same cloth as the Orange Order.’
You realise you have just admitted the Orange Order is a ‘sectarian bigoted organisation’?
You realise you have just put on the record your opinion that the Orange Order is a ‘sectarian bigoted organisation’?
thanks BP for a thoughtful reply. Strongly agree. can’t imagine Christy doing”the well below the valley’ w/ a lambeg. hah