
I was on the Nolan Show last night. Well more in the audience, really. They’d miked me up and everything, but as is sometimes the way with live shows, Stephen never quite made it to me.
The topic was the Mairia Cahill affair, so here’s what I would have said.
1. At the centre of this case is a man accused of rape over a 12-month period. When the case eventually came to court, the man was acquitted – that is to say, there wasn’t the evidence to support the claim and the man was found not guilty. I think that bears repeating. I read at least one report yesterday that forgot to mention that vital fact.
2. On the BBC website, it talks of Mairia at the time of the alleged rape being opposed to the RUC. It also, in the same sentence, says that she was afraid to go because of the IRA. There’s an obvious contradiction there. Not like the BBC.
3. Maria says she was ‘interrogated’ over several days by the IRA. It’s an interesting word, interrogated. In some people’s minds it conjures up images of Castlereagh, with the interrogation accompanied by blows and even torture. Mairia doesn’t allege any physical attack or threats during interrogation but she does say she found it very stressful. I’ve spoken. to people – honest people, speaking the truth – who were interrogated in a court of law by a barrister. They said it was absolutely exhausting – you felt like a wet dish-rag afterwards, even though you’d nothing to hide. I can only guess that’s the kind of feeling Mairia had after her interrogation.
4. All the reports make mention of the fact that Mairia is a grand-niece of the late Joe Cahill, a revered figure in republican circles. I suppose it’s to indicate that the House Cahill is one divided – one pro-republican, one anti-. None of the reports mentioned that a niece of Joe Cahill’s is Eilis O’Hanlon, who writes a column for the Sunday Independent. Has done for decades. And in it, year after wearisome year, she has fired everything but the kitchen sink at republicanism in general, and Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams in particular. If family background is seen as important to mention in these matters, it helps to give the complete rather than partial picture.
5. There are few sights more heave-making than that of a politician being morally indignant. All four politicians on the show last night expressed admiration for Mairia’s courage in coming forward with her accusation and several – including Stephen – called on the IRA to apologise for the ‘kangaroo court’ they held, to establish the veracity of Mairia’s claim. No one mentioned that Gerry Adams has already apologised for her ordeal. Jim Allister stressed that not reporting such matters to the police was a crime. Oh dear. This was 1997. Pre- the Good Friday Agreement. Pre the PSNI. Anyone with even a superficial knowledge of the conflict knows that distrust of policing ran deep through the nationalist and republican community. To expect that the IRA would do the RUC’s work for them and hand over one of their, the IRA’s alleged members, is to show naivety of profound proportions. And to show you’d never read Anne Cadwallader’s book Lethal Allies, with its documented cases of RUC/UDR/British army collusion with extreme loyalist gangs like the Glenanne gang. So the IRA we’re told held instead a kangaroo court. And when they’d finished, they said they didn’t know who to believe. Later, it appears, the legal system showed less uncertainty: it acquitted the alleged rapist of any crime.
Last time there were efforts to tie Gerry Adams to a vile crime, he was arrested in the mouth of an election, with the obvious hope that this would damage Sinn Fein. It did the exact opposite. This time we’re just after an election and another attempt is being made – one joined in enthusiastically by the leader of Fianna Fail – to link Gerry Adams with an alleged vile crime. I suspect this one too may boomerang.
I caught up with spotlight last night and was thinking exactly the same thing. well said!
Jude I am going to try my best to sound reasoned here
Maria says she was ‘interrogated’ over several days by the IRA. It’s an interesting word, interrogated. In some people’s minds it conjures up images of Castlereagh, with the interrogation accompanied by blows and even torture. Mairia doesn’t allege any physical attack or threats during interrogation but she does say she found it very stressful. I’ve spoken. to people – honest people, speaking the truth – who were interrogated in a court of law by a barrister. They said it was absolutely exhausting – you felt like a wet dish-rag afterwards, even though you’d nothing to hide. I can only guess that’s the kind of feeling Mairia had after her interrogation.
This IRA interrogation did it work to a legal framework if not it was a kangaroo court at least in a properly constituted court your rights will be protected by your defence council.
Jude I know you will defend the republican community until the very end but this case asks severe questions of the Republican community that simply will not go away.
Before anybody says anything I would apply this to the Loyalist side as well the truth has to come out and when it does everybody will be horrified by the actions of our so called leaders.
Neill – I appreciate your restraint and I respect your point of view. Thank you for this contribution and all others – we may disagree energetically but I commend you for your civilized approach.
Now. ‘Kangaroo court’ is the term used. This has implications – even definitions – of cases where principles of justice don’t obbtain. It also is described as courts held when the normal judicicial system is impossible – for example, soldier in a war situation have military tribunals. I believe – I don’t know, of course, and I’d venture to say you don’t know – that the second description in nearer to what happened. Republican distrust of the police was a huge problem all through the Troubles. Clearly the IRA or even republicans not involved with the IRA would pass on the notion of referring matters to the RUC. From what Mairia has told us, it appears she was ‘interrogated’ and she found it very distressing. I’m simply adding what people have told me time and again who have been witnesses in legal cases and were cross-examined by the opposing barrister. Keep in mind that Mairia’s allegations, when they went to court, were dismissed – as far as I can tell, since as I say some reports choose to leave this very important bit out. So of course the IRA or whoever, if some sort of tribunal or questioning system was put in place, would be pretty relentless with their questions. I expect they were probably pretty relentless with the man accused. So two things finally: (i) the ‘kangaroo court’ seems, given the only alternative (cf ‘Lethal Allies’) a reasonable way of proceeding; and (ii) the case, when it came to trial in the normal courts, collapsed.
Its a fair point that you make that the law and the police were not truly trusted by the Republican community. However as I have said before legal courts are always better than courts created with no legality or no ability to be properly policed
As most of you I am not a fan of Gerry Adams at all I suspect he will not be able to hang on till 1916 because it seems that there is a new story about him every week which slowly but surely begins to destroy his credibility.
The problem we have just like Gerry Adams is that we have all been so untruthful about the past to the degree we have began to accept the lie I believe Bobby Sands said our vengeance will be the laughter of our children sadly I suspect it will be disbelief at the actions carried out by our political leaders in our supposed name. A society that has no truth has no future or peace so we have to choose between having the entire truth or no truth if we choose the full truth option I wonder what other unpleasant facts will seep out?
Well indeed neill. But I have a £50 note that says the British government will NEVER tell the truth about their role in the Troubles. So if you’re right we’ve got no future or peace ahead…
Sadly neither will Republicans or Loyalists…truth the first victim of violence
Yep – we agree again, neill (Exits, looking anxious…)
re: “witnesses in legal cases who were cross-examined by the opposing barrister.”
A few years ago my sister was driving along a straight stretch of road when she witnessed, from a safe distance, a car accident happening further down in front of her own very eyes. She gave a statement to the police about what she had seen. one year later the PSNi called at her house, went through her statement again (did i actually say that?I don’t remember that!)” and said she would be called to court.
As someone who had never before had anything to do with the courts or lawyers she told me it was the worst experience of her life – the opposing barrister tried to trip her up, was verbally aggressive and it was all about we have to win, they have to lose – upshot of it all was “if I ever see another car accident I’m driving straight on and not stopping”
PS Anybody got a link to the spotlight programme that can be seen outside the UK?
I think Mairia has since filled in some of the blanks. It wasn’t like Castlereagh in one respect. The interrogations did not mean she was detained all in one go.
She was free in between, but she was given no warning nor was she asked for her permission as the cops would have to when handling a rape victim. That is detention in anyone’s book!
There is one particularly appalling detail from Brian Dobsons interview last night when they confronted her with her alleged tormentor.
That’s where the IRA man comes in, sits on the floor, takes off his shoes and says to the ‘accused’, “don’t you be complaining about my smelly feet”.
Then there is that little human detail about the alleged behaviours of the man in question.
Sorry, with that last I meant to say his alleged behaviours in the court.
Welcome Mick – your thoughts always welcome. Would the RUC have asked for her permission to interrogate her? I somehow doubt that. But maybe as you say if it was a “rape victim”. Certainly Mairia says she was raped repeatedly – but the courts acquitted the man she accused. As I understand that, the man was deemed not guilty aka innocent. If so, I’d say his comment on smelly feet would be small beer compared to the ordeal he must have been through.
Jude,
I think it is right to take the opportunity to ask all manner of questions about this case: both directly and indirectly.
I made the point early on on Slugger that if anyone suggests the type of abuse that we’re seeing described here is singularly a Republican problem then they should take a closer look at inner east Belfast and Loyalist north and west.
With my usual caveats about the madness of conspiracy theorists the stalling over investigations Kincora also suggests that there are far deeper agendas at play in this field than is currently apparent.
Very little as yet has come out on the Loyalist/Unionist side, so I can understand why many republican naturally rail against these one sided investigations as essentially political interventions.
The behaviours outlined by Ms Cahill on any normal moral or ethical plane are quite indefensible. In this respect it is telling perhaps that it has become a matter of some considerable controversy in the south, whilst the north (apart from our incessant chittering over on Slugger) is quiet as a grave.
This confirms what many of us have known most of our lives, we in NI are not in any way shape or form a normal society. The seeming equanimity with which people appear (and I quite specifically exclude Republics from this) to have shrugged off the story would indicate hat we have become quite serious bent out of shape.
In this regard, what we can do to rectify that sorry state of affairs is really the most serious question we should ask in this regard.
PS,
My understanding of police behaviour in these circumstances is that if an incidence of alleged rape or child sexual abuse is reported to them they will call with the named victim and invite them to make a statement.
Thanks Mick. I’m in agreement with much of what you say. But I think two things bear keeping in mind, One is that (as far as I know) there is no evidence beyond Mairia’s words that she was raped repeatedly over a period of a year, and that when the matter came to court the accused was acquitted. If I’ve got that wrong, I withdraw and apologise. If I’ve got it right, then the unseemly haste of various politicians to rush to her side and condemn republicans in general is indeed a fairly uninspiring sight.
You echo my thoughts exactly, when I saw the Indo columnist getting in on the act it confirmed my worst fears..The great Joe must be turning in his grave!
I am struggling to know what to make of it all politically. My posts on Slugger have largely been an attempt to follow the detail as it comes out.
Lack of evidence is clearly why the trial failed.When this is all through there are serious questions for the PSNI, and not simply with regard to the Cahill case.
My understanding is that NI lags the rest of the UK, not least in the time it takes to process such cases. Ordinarily this should have taken no more than two years. It took twice that time.
Rape is notoriously hard to prove without medical evidence. It was clear from early on the Tyrell case that Aine did and it may be one key reason why she was able to secure conviction against her dad.
Sinn Fein have played their usual tight and disciplined game; with an impressive tactical use of silence. Ironically, the political parties missed their best opportunity to make political capital out of the Tyrell case where a guilty verdict was forthcoming.
Most took on board Adams’ argument that it was a family matter. Since the Cahill court case failed we are unlikely to see anyone go overboard this time either.
Nevertheless, as Noel Whelan said yesterday on RTE Ms Cahill presents as a compelling witness to the process she claims she was subjected to. The original detail of her accounts, contrasts with the broad brush schema of Adams’ recollections. Most of the detail he recalls are elements of Cahill’s original accounts.
And there are also common elements with his alleged handling of the Tyrell case (some of which runs concurrently with Cahill’s timeline).
At the outset last week on Slugger I noted the snipers rule recounted to me by an old Scots Irish soldier who had been a sniper at Monte Casino. Get off two shots and you cannot be spotted by the enemy. Take a third and they’ll trig you out.
If this happens again there will be far less room for doubt that we have a political ‘policy’ on our hands.
Is there supporting evidence for Mairia’s account of how she was treated? And what exactly is it she objects to in how she was treated? (These are not rhetorical questions – I don’t know.) If the accused was acquitted, does that mean Mairia was..economical with the truth? Or is her main objection the manner in which republicans treated her during ‘interrogation’? I have this funny feeling that people keen to put the boot into GA/SF are skimming over the answer to such questions. But maybe I’m not informed.
Jude
She objected to being repeatedly questioned against her will about the details of the alleged abuse. She was frightened and especially when she was brought face to face with Morris where he was allowed to verbally abuse her for hours..
It’s in the Spotlight programme. I’m sure you watched it to prepare for going on Nolan.
As to the acquital I don’t think the evidence was actually tested in court so there is no reason to suppose she is being economical with the truth.
I believe 2 other young women have made allegations against Morris too.
Still waiting to hear the IRA version of events.
Tell you a secret, gio – I haven’t watched the Spotlight programme. But I gather it was largely Mairia’s testimony of what happened. You say things like “she was frightened” and Morris “was allowed to verbally abuse her for hours”. How do you know that?
Jude
You asked what it was she objected to. I am giving you her explanation.
Hard to believe you went on Nolan to discuss this issue without even watching the programme.
What was it you were saying about wilful blindness?
Gio old chap – the Nolan people did their level best to get me a copy of it before the show – they didn’t manage it. Besides which, to say the matter has received mass coverage would be to understate it. We both know what’s going on here.
You do love playing on a sticky wicket Jude! 😉
Ms Cahill is asking for corroborating evidence of her detention and interrogation from the only people who can give it, ie the people whom she alleges conducted it.
I also see Ian Parsley has picked up the fact that one of the people who knew about her predicament and refused to inform the police was the junior minister responsible for institutional abuse.
This young woman’s experience of abuse in common with that of other victims was one of fear and isolation, something which only appears to increased and intensified once the IRA got involved.
As for whether the collapse of the case(s) de facto means Ms Cahill is lying about her interrogation by the IRA I’m not sure what proof you have of that.
Sinn Fein and the IRA (or rather it’s legacy organisation) will, like the La Salle order, will fight any culpability on this matter not least because the financial consequences alone for them of losing a civil case could be pretty dire.
OJ Simpson anyone?
Well Mick, it seems the other batsmen are sitting in the pavilion staying safe.
As I read your argument, Mairia has made an accusation – no, two accusations at least. One, she was raped and two, she was interrogated. I’m simply asking what corroborating evidence is there of either? She’s also accused GA of saying some victims enjoy sexual abuse. Again what evidence? It’s Alice in Wonderland stuff to say that the fault lies with those she accuses for not corroborating her charge. If we say ‘If a charge of rape is made, it must be true’, that opens the doors to a witch-hunt – I could accuse you, you could accuse me, anyone could accuse anyone, and if the charge were one which sounds convincing (which several people have said of Mairia’s) then that’s it: it’s true. I call that mad and bad.
You just keep digging yourself further and further into the mire. As I stated last week you tone is despicable and miscogynist. As far as I can see you are the only person still questioning the fact that Mairia Cahill was raped.
Vincent – I’m assuming (maybe wrongly) that your finger is pointing my way when you make with the insults. “You are the only person questioning the fact that Mairia Cahill was raped”. Well, for a start I’m not the only one who believes that claims of anything, especially involving legal matters, should be supported by evidence. I’d just like clarification on the evidence available in this case.
Jude
To the best of my knowledge the defendants in the case were taken to court on the basis of the evidence supplied by Maria Cahill, i.e. there was sufficient evidence for the RUC to charge the people in question with an offence or offences and for the PPS to proceed to prosecution. At some point Maria Cahill withdrew her evidence. Why she did so does not seem to have been fully explained or examined. If her testimony/evidence was the basis of a prosecution case then the court had no option to acquit the accused.
However that is not the same as saying the accused were ‘acquitted’ on the basis that the evidence was tested in court and did not stand scrutiny. Therefore to repeat that the people in question were acquitted in a court of law needs to be qualified with the fact that evidence was withdrawn and never tested in court – unless you are over the detail more than me and can tell me otherwise.
There may be a trial by media as many argue, but I do not detect that this time around if new evidence comes to light or there is a basis for a prosecution in future that Maria Cahill will baulk from giving evidence next time around.
Also it would be easier to take your views more seriously if there was a shred of balance. You may well talk of interrogation in relation to Castlereigh, but try and balance this with the interrogation and murder of the Disappeared or the IRA’s internal interrogation units (Stakeknife et al) and the kind of interrogation and death meted out to IRA informers. For most people reading about or listening to Maria Cahill’s version of events, ‘kangaroo court’ smacks of a nicety rather than a misnomer.
Plain and simple, this is trial by media and shame on those politicians who contributed to such an unbalanced programme which clearly was not concerned about truth discovery but about scoring political points against the Republican movement in general.
This story was first flagged in the Sindo, oddly enough, the flag of choice being the Butcher’s Apron itself.
The Sindo is not inappropriately titled, never missing the tiniest Windo of opportunity to put the boot, be it brogue or stiletto, into the sinners of Sinn Fein. Most tellingly when the sinners being to show uppity signs of being winners.
Or, to give it its full title, the S.I.C. (sic). That would be the Sunday Independent Cult. For many years it was located on that synonym for downtown Dublin shabbiness, both environmental and intellectual, Middle Abbey Street, staring across at the Church of Scientology on the opposite side of the avenue. That florid fellow from Tralee, the late, great Aengus Fanning was the L. Ron Hubbard of the S.I.C.
Now, ‘Anus Fanny’ (so good they nicknamed him twice) had no truck with Terra-ists as became a Yerra-ist from the Ballyseedy end of Kerry. He was therefore much given to the editorial practice of pale risible mooning above the green mountainy men of the Republican movement. Sunday Morning editorials always came down in a barrage of beige-coloured rage. Curiously enough this sensitive pacifist who championed the ancient Yerra game of cricket balls had plenty of truck for the lightly armoured vehicle favoured by the BA in the Wee N and known as the Humber Pig.
Or, perhaps, not so curiously. For the word ‘pig’ tends to play a rather pivotal role in the worldview of most cults.
Take that centre of cultish excellence, the Spahn Ranch, just north of LA and on the highway to the nowhere of Death Valley in California.
Now, Spahn Ranch served as a role model on several fronts for the S.I.C. For starters, the cult members of the S.I.C. tended to take umbrage, beige-coloured umbrage indeed, at the term ‘cult’. They preferred (and still do prefer) to be called: The Family. So closely intertwined are their relationships, one with the other, from Californication to the Hubbard-style concept of husband-swapping, mother.
This though was no reason for the malignant mischief-makers (amongst whom the perfectly dispassionate Perkie is all too happy not to number himself) to nickname the HQ of the S.I.C. as ‘Spaniel Ranch’. On account, seemingly, of its excessively fawning attitude towards the would-be king in Buckingham Palace, name of Charlie. This charismatic and unkempt heir to the throne of the Son of Man/Woman seemed to hold an almost hypnotic control over his ‘spaniels’ in the S.I.C.
(It was the Mum, of whom Charlie is the son, who had/has the weakness for corgis, both canine and toy boy, if recent accounts are to be believed. Wow, bow wow. Ni ga a ra, sceptical Perkie is a staunch non-believer is this latter regard).
Mind you, fawning did come rather easily to the Editor Fanning who was once memorably described as ‘a long eared editorial dog with silky hair, lolling tongue and a wagging tail, not to mention a weakness for the colour, beige’.
Bucks, both as in Buckingham Palace and bucks as in bucks, were always crucial to the S.I.C. view of itself. Thus, it was a trauma of truly calamitous proportions when the former owner (oops, one almost wrote, onanist !) was taken for every last buck he owned (sort of ) and was duly banished to Debt Valley. What a ghastly, ignominious end to the busy business career of a Knight of the Realm. He, of the famously fawn-coloured freckled forehead.
But, nature abhorring a vacuum cleaner as it does, soon saw to it that a successor was quickly put in situ, to hoover up all the L.S.D. (as the bucks began to be now called, in the old tradition of new brooms) left lying around the ranch.
DOB, the new owner, has adopted a crafty policy of ‘if it’s not broken in, nothing a quick fix cannnot cure’. Thus, the cult members can still be seen bombing around helter skelter in their dune buggies, seeking out the sinners of SF to harass. SF, in this instance, does not refer to one of the most high-pitched and newly enriched cultists of the S.I.C.. That would be Squeaky Fromme so named because of where she has come from, having switched sides and so, is all the more highly regarded as such).
The cultists have a tendency to call each other by quirky nicknames, everthing from ‘Anus Fanny’ to ‘Squeaky Fromme’ to ‘Clem Scramblehead’ himself.
Being essentially nocturnal creatures, and under the spell of Charlie, their once and future kinetic king, they ging around at night, scavenging in the garbage bins of private homes and corporate supermalls alike and indulging in the dark art and craft of ‘creepy-crawling’ of which they are past mistresses.
‘Creepy-crawling’ involves targeting a particular home truth and then breaking into this home truth while its owner-occupiers are asleep in the arms (possibly illegal arms) of Morpheus. And while there the cultists with great stealth and practiced silence rearrange the furniture, a lampshade over here and a porcelain dog over there. In such a way to cause maximum disquiet in the morning to the residents and ditto merriment to the cultists in the m. Especially, Sunday morning.
The creepiest part of this crawling and the one designed to cause the most unease is the care taken NOT to steal anything. Apart of course from the odd shabby reputation which might have been found hanging in the hallway.
While this craft is as yet at a low-intensity stage it may yet develop into an art form involving a tete-a-tete with the actual owners or indeed tenants of the designated houses. And the scrawling with the victim’s O negative the signature ‘Piggies’. An art form perfected by another guru held in high esteem by the S.I.C., General Sharon himself.
Another not irrelevant similarity between the prototype Spahn Ranch and its spin-off ‘Spaniel Ranch’ is that it also serves as a location for B-movies of the Horse Opera stripe. There is very much a black and white view of things to the fore hereabouts. Thus, readers who are sufficiently masochistic may gorge themselves every Sunday on the latest episode of, say, The Lone Ranger. And the S.I.C. is not exactly short of Tonto types who wallow in an extravagant contempt for their native injun tongue by brandishing their only remaining cupla focal: Kemo Sabay !
Oh, and that reference to LA above. This pertains to the Mid-Abbey motto which swings above the newsroom: ‘Tiocfaidh ar LA’.
LA, being the Q.’s English, for ‘Lethal Allies’.
Why anyone still believes the bbc is an impartial network is beyond me. It’s run by the British government hint hint.
As a republican I was scratching my head whilst watching the spotlight programme. What point were they trying to make? I can only conclude it was another attempt to discredit republicanism hidden behind the overt effort to discredit Adams.
The people who were alleged to have ‘investigated’ this case within the republican movement seemed to be doing the right thing ie getting to the bottom of a possible abuse allegation. It had obviously been brought to their attention by others who expressed concern. And rather than ignore it they inquired into it.
Now according to spotlight it was a case of her word against his. They may have believed her but without a confession what were they to do? Take him away and torture him? Thankfully brit agents like scapaticci and his cronies are otherwise engaged.
Now if the psni were deliberately inept in investigating this case as well then I would suggest the bbc get out there and do another exclusive quick march. That’s if mi5 permit them of course. ; )
wolfe tone – you clearly agree with the scottish independistas – they are fuming about BBC bias on a similar point – he celtic League has even written to the UN about Uk manipulation and interference in the referendum
http://www.celticleague.net/news/manipulation-and-interference-in-referendum-campaign-un-told/
Ben madigan, the bbc have been for along time a biased organisation, long before the scottish found out recently. I just find it amazing that republicans still indulge this outfit; we should be shunning it and it’s tax. Republicans paying for that ‘service’ are like turkeys voting for Xmas.
The bbc-the royal family’s fan club. North Korea must envy their expertise in propaganda.
the scots have actually started a campaign to boycott organizations that fearmongered about scottish independence.
Guess who’s first on the list? they have stopped paying their TV licences, stopped buying certain newspapers and stopped shopping in certain stores.
Some have even switched banks to a credit union or an independent bank.
Jude
You say :
“Clearly the IRA or even republicans not involved with the IRA would pass on the notion of referring matters to the RUC.”
Gerry said
“”Siobhan :and I met with Joe Cahill who was Maíria’s uncle. We told Joe of the allegation and asked him to speak to Maíria about reporting this to the RUC. He did so. Maíria did not want to do this at that time.”
I’ve responded to the same point with some one else, gio. I gave what I believe would have been the instinctive reaction of republicans to the RUC. If GA thinks or acts otherwise, that’s his affair. But I very much doubt if he’d be typical of republicans at that time. I could be wrong of course. It has happened. Even you are wrong sometimes, gio…
Jude
If that was Gerry’s view in the situation it was surely the view of others too.
Did Joe Cahill not say he would have advised her to go to the RUC too.
Two senior figures there.
Those of us not connected cannot know the truth in this case, but the way Maria Cahill a young girl was dealt with by the republican movement must surely make you uneasy?
Brought to a house to face her accuser with no support. Told that some victims learn to enjoy the abuse.
What other witnesses were questioned What statements were taken?
How was he allowed to escape to Donegal? If only the resourceful republican organisation could have managed to send someone all the way to Donegal to find him. But then it is over 2 hours away I suppose.
You clearly know much more about the case than me, gio. But I find it faintly ludicrous that people are complaining that the IRA didn’t do the work of the RUC for them.
Jude
I know only what I have read in the media. It’s not hard to find.
But assuming as you say that it could not have been expected that the IRA would do the work of the RUC for them, do you thingk they did a good job in this case with their own form of justice?
Does it sound like Mairia Cahill got a fair hearing?
Was it reasonable for a girl barely more than a child to be confronted in that way by the man she was accusing? So that their body language was judged?
Is it likely that the IRA simply let this man flee to Donegal with impunity? Donegal mind you not Argentina or Siberia but just up the road.
Given Gerry Adams problems with memory on other occasions is it not a possibility that he has got it wrong again?
You say below people are being wilfully blind, but I’m afraid it is those who are prepared to swallow so many impossible things before breakfast rather than doubt the blessed Gerry who are being wilfully blind.
I do not excuse the police handling of this either by the way and I hope they will be called to account too.
Gio – at least you’re consistent (and I like you anyway). The one thing that everyone conveniently forgets is that this alleged rapist was acquitted in a court of law of all charges. Which I would interpret as a case of his being not guilty. Fairly important, I should think. Reports I read say the IRA, after the ‘interrogations’, said they couldn’t tell who was telling the truth. Personally, if someone accused me of a vile crime such as rape, I most definitely would want to confront them. Or do you think it’s Ok for a person to be accused in their absence? I’m getting tired saying it: again and again and again people are using those who have grievances, be those grievances founded or not, in order to bash Sinn Féin. You’d have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see that. I really don’t see much point in discussion if someone denies that.
Jude
Have you no concerns about how Mairia Cahill was treated at all.?
You express none in your piece. Does it all sound fine to you?
You’d be happy had it been a member of your family whose allegatons were dealt with in such away?
I agree of course people are using this to bash Sinn Fein. That’s politics.
But if what she says is true then she was treated appallingly do you not think?
Just because it is a gift to SF opponents (and Gerry has made a few such gifts) doesn’t mean the issue can be ignored.
Gio – either you’re a very …attractive – in the best sense – person, or I’m a saint. Have I no concerns re treatment of MC? If she was raped, I think that’s appalling -I think I’ve made that point. Re the way her allegations were dealt with – from what I’ve heard: the IRA interrogated her re truth of claim, and I presume interrogated the chap accused.I’m sure it was an ordeal but then so is any interrogation (if you like I’ll put up a link to a police interrogation for comparison purposes). So in the circs no, I’d have no particular concerns about her interrogation. If what she says was true then she should have got justice – her assailant should have been banged up for a long time. But when the case came to court eventually, the alleged assailant was acquitted. Does that not mean he was innocent? And if so, that Mairia’s charges were…untrue? If that was the case, my sympathies would lie with the man she charged, not her. If what she said was true, of course my sympathies would lie with her. But the kangaroo court she speaks of – in the circs of the time, it seems to me a rough way of looking for justice but I would by no means say it was wrong. What exactly do you find “appalling”about her treatment? And since a court found in favour of the man charged, not Mairia, why do you talk about the case as though everything Mairia said was true and anything the guy acquitted was untrue? …To tell you the truth, gio, I’m feeling like talking to people about the case is like talking, as I said in another blog, to a stone-deaf man or woman. And that’s pointless and boring. Even for a saint.
Jude
Perhaps if more detail comes out it will be possible to assess the justice delivered by the IRA. Maybe those involved will give us their version of events.
One final point; I find it hard to imagine a 16 year old risking making false accusations against a powerful man in a dangerous organisation.
That is why I tend towards believing her.
I will leave it at that lest my attraction wears off.
Gio didn’t it say on the programme that the alleged rapist was arrested in England, London I think
Páid
Yes I believe you are right. My understanding is that Mairia Cahill and her father were told around the time of the IRA investigation that Morris had ‘fled’ to Donegal and they (the IRA) did not have the resources to bring him back.
Presumably at some point after those events he moved to London.
But why make a point about having recommended the police to the young lady as a first option?
Not sure what you mean, Virginia.
Jude : I’d written a piece just now but somehow deleted it…so here goes again with another version. This is a very personal case from a time before time began . Pre-Agreement Time was not anything like now .Let’s get that out there before we begin . Anyone on the republican side of the fence were not going to go anywhere near the RUC with their problems. I should imagine . Are you kidding? That whole community felt at war with the establishment and the RUC was the pointy -end of that.
i would think they tried to be so hermetic that everything was sorted out in-house. If you lived in that milieu, that’s seems to have been how things were done. That’s also probably why Sinn Fein “Help” centres grew into the political network that the loyalists never accomplished to the same extent. Everyone inside the republican movement and ouside it have that impression.I certainly have, but then, what do I know?
That means that this “interrogation” would have been the bread and butter of social control …., their own civic law…..given that no one was going to trust the civil authorities who were seen as strictly biased in favour of unionism. Many bad things happened in those unregulated communities and sex is bound to rear its hoary head somewhere. In essence this is nothing political. it is purely carnal in the same way that any illicit sexual behaviour between men and women is . For unionists to make hay of it is par for the course .We all had a chuckle at Mrs Robinson’s dalliance with the toyboy. Everyone laughs when we slip on life’s banana skins.That’s what people do .When someone is raped that is a different matter of course.
If Maria Cahill was abused and her abuser escaped the courts it is a tragedy for her but it is no different from the rampant incest that is happening while we read this. It is not in any way political.. even though she is politicised and is from a political family ..Just as a soldier who rapes anyone in any army or grouping is not committing a political act.
The programme was a bit of a curates egg. It was strange that the reporter barely mentioned the existence of a compelling piece of circumstantial evidence (the notes) until the end. It was as if this was an after thought to the reasoning behind the programme.
The presence of Eils O’Hanlon contributed nothing to ‘facts’ of the programme. She is unapologetically agenda driven and can be dismissed in that context.
The testimony that the alleged victim kept returning to the home of the alleged abuser makes uncomfortable listening and was never properly explored. Likewise the excuse of staying in SF as ‘there was no where else to go’ was inadequate.
The main point, in my opinion, to shoehorn Adams into a culpable position seemed to be the subtext of the programme. It focussed on a meeting that insinuated Adams made an appaliing statement to the alleged victim. The point was reinforced by the alleged victim remembering the tourist bus etc etc. Memory by association to lend credibility to her take of events. It is up to the individual to decide if this appeared manufactured.
The ending of the court case was covered in a pretty bizarre fashion. A man who had been damned in statements around minding and carrying guns turned up to court, presumably to de-bunk the allegations made against him and that is evidence of some conspiracy to undermine the case. If a person is challenging what they perceive to be a untruth is that not what they are supposed to do?
1. If a rapist ever targets you I hope the extrajudicial pseudo paramilitary organization you try so hard to acquit of any wrongdoing protects you. If they protect the abuser instead, because they are an operator who knows dirty secrets and more useful than you, I hope you exhibit one tenth of Mairia’s strength and courage.
2. You can be fiercely loyal to a cause and equally afraid of the results of breaking the rules attached to that loyalty. Ask anyone who broke in Castlereagh, all loyalty has a breaking point. As a social scientist who studied children and television as a teaching tool (Your Published Paper was on that very subject) you would be familiar with learning theory which states that we never operate in any one behavioral quadrant because of the stimulus package around us. Quite clearly the loyalty and peer pressure pulled Maria deeper into the movement, when this reached its psychological limit then they sent in the scary people to threaten her. Cults often love bomb and then punish later using sex as the primary weapon. Jim Jones, Charles Manson and many others used sex as a weapon and shame as a silencer. Was the movement or agents planted inside it using sex as an indoctrination or brainwashing technique?
3. A hypothetical, fictional situation. A 230lb highly trained sexually deviant abuser gets locked in a room with you. You being a fine boned academic aren’t up to physically resisting the brute so he has his way with you. The paramilitary group that you love and trust under duress place him under house arrest. You aren’t satisfied because that isn’t punishment. They tell you to walk it off and in fact that you may have secretly enjoyed it. You threaten to go to the police like you said you would when that burglar broke into your house in another piece. They say, ‘fine we will have to unleash the pervert who raped you.’ Is that not considered to be extreme psychological violence with an implied physical threat? The implication is they will let a hardened, trained paramilitary rapist you accused of a crime loose on you. Does that sound fair to you as a teacher?
4. The Republican Movement are never harder on anyone than on their own people, it’s more Colonia Dignidad than UKIP and they need to face up to that. You wouldn’t know that because you are a new friend. I suppose those kinds of issues don’t come up in the stoopers or new labour (although given recent news reports about PIE connections to new labour that assumption might be totally wrong)? They need to hold any of their senior membership accountable for shortcomings in addressing this and many, many other cases. Maria Cahill is a human being and someone’s daughter, shame on you and those you would seek to cloud and muddy the waters. Just the Brits in Green, no difference at all, perhaps we should find new community leaders?
5. None of those concerned care a jot for Mairia Cahill outside of their own narrow political interests, but you hardly care more than they do. The pattern of your column has always been to vindicate the abuser and attack the victim so nothing new there Doctor C, more of a weaponized social scientist than a healer, judging by your blog. On your own conscience be it.
6. Isn’t it strange how some people seem to be surrounded by intrigue and the police just aren’t that interested. They investigate things; it goes so far and then nothing. I mean they had all the Sinn Fein meeting rooms bugged and deep cover agents right through the Movement according to Martin Ingram. Yet they knew nothing of Liam Adams et al.
It’s not credible is it?
It recalls the Whitey Bulger and Billy Bulger nexus of vileness in Boston. Whitey was an MK Ultra test subject, by the way.
It recalls Elm House and Kincora.
It recalls Church scandals.
Are we looking at black bag blackmail on an industrial scale by the intelligence services and large corporations? How many in civil organizations will have been compromised?
Think about Morris Fraser working in the Royal as a Child Psychiatrist. Is this systemic, mindful damage of young minds?
If it isn’t why are we not investigating properly?
One can’t help but think that victims are being used as a steering mechanism of the Republican Movement.
‘Do our cuts or your vile little secrets will spill out?’
Maybe I am just a cynic. I am certainly no saint. But some things are just inherently wrong, no matter who did them.
Mairia is a strong courageous person I hope she finds peace and happiness; I hope the others get their just deserts.
Maybe when they are in a nursing home in later life they will meet a victim they mistreated. Not that I wish that for them but they say Karma is a bitch.
Well now, J. You do seem to know an awful lot. But let me correct you on one tiny detail or two. I am not now nor have I ever been a social scientist. I am not at all fine-boned. I am in total agreement that people who attack others, especially those weaker than them, are bullies and deserve punishment. Like you again I hope Mairia finds peace and happiness – and I hope all others, not just ‘the others’ get their just desserts. Although I am a little uneasy with that last one: “Use every man after his desert, and who should ’scape whipping?”
Your comment should be read by a much wider audience. Thank God well educated people like yourself have the ability to make a nonsense out of Jude Collin’s SF sycophantic rant. Like you have said, on his own head beit.
I admire your imagination, Jim. I’ve yet to read anything that ‘made a nonsense’ out of – no,not a sycophantic rant – my points listed in the blog. I’d suggest you try addressing the points rather than indulging in abuse.
The comment absolutely rips your very partisan ‘blog’ to pieces Jude. I’m sorry if that upsets your writers ego, but it is quite blatant.
Your blog strongly suggests that Ms Cahill’s lineage makes her an intelligent, but a sinister enemy of SF. She may be so sinister that she is capable of the most extraordinary lies, and all just to damage SF and Gerry Adams.
Your blog has little or no sympathy for Ms Cahill, besides the routine obligatories vomited out in an attempt to disguise an underlying and subtle attack that is filled with dangerous innuendo and all directed at Ms Cahill.
Tell me Jude, when will the day come when you put ordinary real people before SF politics? Will you ever be brave enough to condemn the very worst of what is wrong with SF politics? Or the internal mechanisms of that party?
I cannot add very much to the excellent comment already made by J Quinn. Nor do I have such eloquence with words. I can only give my own opinion on the matter just as you have gave yours.
I do hope a public awakening occurs before we are led into the abyss by such dangerous people. That includes men like yourself, who obviously have a greedy and self-serving interest in the successes of SF. In my opinion you are engaging in the lowest form of tabloid journalism, almost akin to the dirty tactics used by Murdoch via people like Rebekah Brooks. Ooops. She is innocent. I mean Andy Coulson.
Whatever it takes, I believe that you will be there to write SF straight into power, regardless of the human cost.
So, if anyone has entered the arena of abuse Jude, I would strongly suggest you put all prejudices aside, and ‘hear’ the words of Mairia Cahill.
Jim – I’m not sure that mixing your argument with name-calling does much to strengthen it. Re Mairia’s lineage: it was the Irish and English media which brought up her lineage by telling us her great-uncle was Joe Cahill. If that’s important to say, why isn’t it important to say that Joe Cahill’s niece is a relentless and public critic of all things republican/SF/GA? As to sympathy: to repeat yet again: if Mairia was raped repeatedly as she said she was, she deserves every sympathy and her attacker should be punished severely. Is that clear enough? The fact is, however, that when the case came to court, the man she accused of this cowardly crime was acquitted. Doesn’t that affect how the case is seen by you? As I understand it, that meant an innocent man had been accused of the most disgusting activities. When will I be “brave enough” to criticise all that’s wrong with SF? There must be a lot of very brave people in the Irish media, then – see the judgement on the Indo re Gerry Adams, for instance. And what ‘abyss’ do you see the Irish people being “led into”? You mean all those thousands of people who voted Sinn Féin are sleep-walking, deluded fools? “Greedy and self-serving”? I promise you, Vincent, I’m not in this for the money. Do you think I get paid for my blog? Or do you think I hack phones and lead a media empire? Reality-check time, I’d say, Vincent. “You will be there to write SF straight into power”? I can scarcely believe what you’re saying. How in the name of God would I write anyone into power? I’ve heard the words of Mairia. To repeat (yet again) -if they are true, then she has been victimized in a horrible way and those guilty should be punished severely. However, I don’t know of any evidence that supports what she has said. Do you?
“Vincent”? Lacan would have a field day with this. Once constitutes a Freudian slip. Twice an obsession.
I think this is a really, really shameful piece. Nasty. Insensitive . Deeply disturbing and miscogynistic. It basically says that the victim in this case is a liar. The stuff about the court is so vulgar and deliberately misleading. Failing to point out the fact that the PSNI dragged their heels on the investigation for over 4 years. That fact, from what I understand from the programme was a primary reason why the Cahill family decided not to continue with a Court and why the accused walked scot free.
Well Vincent you’re entitled to your opinion. I think it’s nothing of the sort. This case is just one more in an assembly line of cases where every effort is made by opponents of republicanism to bash them. Anyone who can’t see that is wilfully blind.
I’m not at all blind, wilfully or any other way. Unlike some other people who for wax lyrical about the injustice visited upon Gerry Adams in relation to the Jean McConville case, but are vocal in their support for the PSNI when a 77 year old former Republican leader is held , interrogated and charged in connection with the very same offense. No talk about cabals or political policing when it comes to Ivor Bell? I wonder if this is what you mean by wilful blindness?
Vincent – I stand by my initial statement. If you’re accusing me of being wilfully blnd to some case of injustice you’re wrong – I’m not even aware of the case you’re referring to. If you want to send me details or links, I’ll be happy to look at it. And btw – I don’t wax lyrical. It’s a cliché. I try to avoid clichés.
You never heard of Ivor Bell? Or the fact, that sometime before his old friend and comrade Gerry Adams was questioned about the Jean Mc Conville case, Ivor Bell was charged in relation to the McConville inquiry? I mean seriously, where have you been Jude?
I have heard of Ivor Bell,Vincent, but seriously I wasn’t aware (or forgot) he’d been charged. Are you saying he’s innocent?
Like a lot of Republicans I would suggest that Ibor Bell is every bit as innocent as his former close friend and comrade Gerry Adams. What’s more I think the arrest, interrogation and charging of Ivor Bell was ‘political policing’ at it’s most evident. What I was attempting to illustrate in refreshing your memory, was the fundamentally different reaction by Sinn Fein to the two arrests. SF welcomed the arrest of Ivor Bell in connection with the case and publicly supported the PSNI. When Gerry Adams was detained they reacted totally differently, immediately charging the PSNI with political policing and being in the grip of a ‘cabal’ of securocrats secretly working to bring down the ‘institutions.’ It’s never about principal with Sinn Fein these days, always about protecting the interests of the party leaders, once again evident in the responses to the charges leveled in the Cahill case.
Jude
Disgusted, as far as I am concerned the women are a disgrace.
The men are a disgrace. Gerry Adams should go, he makes me physically sick.
His attitude towards women stinks. who would ever believed Joe Cahills niece would have stood up and told this.. and the bloody cheek of the accused running to London, were they blew up innocent people left right and centre. The mind boggles.
Good always over comes evil, long runs the fox, eventually it catches up with you.
I just hope the people in the south, distance themselves, from these thieves liars rapists murderers robbers gangsters etc etc…
Norma
Norma – you’re doing it again. Please – no more posts that are simply abusive. It goes no one anywhere.
Norma, William fay, me thinks you need to calm down. There have been plenty of allegations aimed at those people you pledge loyalty to eg sweaty Betty Windsor etc and you dismiss them as fantastic allegations. So what makes this allegation aimed at the republican movement any more plausible?
The neck on you william for suggesting you know what went on in these’interrogations’ leaves me pondering how you know. Do you get paid for posting on these kind of forums by any chance?
Norma, there are plenty of people who have made serious allegations against royalty,politicians etc but very few give them the airspace others tend to get. I don’t know what bubble you live in but if you took the time to do a bit of research you would be shocked at some of the treatment these victims got when they reported their abuse to the authorities.
I’m not sure what this debate is all about. The facts of the matter appear to be that the PIRA took the girl in, gave her a kicking, warned her about taking her complaint any farther or she would be dealt with, and was then released. PIRA justice, period, that’s how they dealt with these situations, GA can confirm this for you any time you want.
“Gave her a kicking” – really, sweet William. And your source for that is? Warned her about taking her complaint an further – how do you know that? You’re beginning to sound like an IRA insider. Surely…Nah. Not possible. I think.
Jude
Its a shame that you weren’t allowed last night to make the points detailed in your blog.I suppose the show’s producers felt that May Mc Fetridge just had to be heard! Seriously though you needed to be heard as for the most part Sinn Fein have been unusually coy about putting forward a representative to discuss the case.In the absence of such,your potential contribution would have been the nearest thing to reflecting the Republican view of things. In paragragh 3 ,you seem to be equating a court of law with the I R A “interrogation”.Is that really a fair equivalence? All the defendants in the recent case had the best of legal representation.Did such exist in the “I R A court”?!!
I doubt that top barristers were queuing to be part of the IRA investigation, for fairly obvious reasons. I consider my views as representing my opinion and no one else’s. If someone or group want to agree with me – or I with them – that’s reasonable. But I repeat, I am not a representative of anyone other than myself.
THIS IS SHERDY NOT ME…
Jude,
God help you in your naivety.
Your picture indicates that you should be old enough, and wise enough not to expect to be treated reasonably, never mind respectfully, by the greatest ignoramus in the country.
Everyone else is there to be used and abused by him in his quest for general approval. Politicians and leaders of all organisations are expected to jump onto his show at his beck and call, and if surplus to requirements – their problem. No apology will be forthcoming.
I find it difficult to understand why people will subject themselves to his bullying and browbeating which must leave some of them whimpering in a corner – just to improve Nolan’s ratings.
When will these people gain some sense of dignity and either refuse to answer his phone calls, or when he gets abusive during an interview, just to hang up the phone. It is time people grew up and faced him down.
This woman is the latest plaything of the anti agreement rejectionist parties, Jim Allister will use her for his own fanatical anti Sinn Féin agenda the way he used Anne Travers. Maybe one day he will champion a Nationalist victim of the state, either official or unofficial. The simple fact is Republican voters are too sharp and too politically astute to fall for this latest `Get Adams` piece of propaganda.
That pretty much sums up my argument, AJ. Maith thú. I think it’s the influence of our joint patron saint makes us so smart…
Or unwilling to accept that it might be the truth?
Not sure if you’re talking to me or someone else, neill. Assuming it’s me – and apologies if it ain’t – I’m certainly prepared to accept that Mairia’s account might be the truth. But except that there was evidence that it was, I’d reserve the right to be sceptical or at least unconvinced. Would you accept that the person she accused might be telling the truth? After all a court acquitted him, so except you have no faith in the courts that should count for something.
Sorry Jude I was replying to Another Jude.
Yes I would be willing to accept that the accused man might be telling the truth my problem with this whole matter is that an unoffical court was being used to dispence justice without any real legal recourse
My mistake, neill – I bow out as gracefully as possible…
Some interesting points Dr C
The only thing I can quibble with is the “he was arrested in the mouth of an election, with the obvious hope that this would damage Sinn Fein”.
If the PSNI are actually so stupid as to arrest Gerry A before an election in the hope that it damages his cause then I’m simply not moving back to NI ever, refuse to be policed by a group so stupid that they make the Vogons in hitchhiker’s guide look smart.
Same goes for the British government, if they’re that thick then I’m gonna set up my own republican party to get the hell away from such idiots.
Plus I’ll never watch ‘The Fall’ again because if the PSNI are actually so dumb they’d never catch that nut-job in real life even if he carried a neon sign saying “about to strangle a hot raven haired woman to death. Again” (a nut-job who looks disturbingly like my cousin…)
Ha haaa, AG – you are a truly witty guy. I think the arrest had the south particularly in mind – it was the local elections there that it was hoped the SF tide could be stemmed. You can see the logic behind it – link GA yet again with Jean McConville’s death and people won’t vote for his party. It worked the opposite way. Boomerang, in short. Don’t ask me to explain the psychology. And whatever about the PSNI, the British government time and again during the Troubles – and back to 1916 – has shown itself capable of doing the specatcularly wrong thing when it comes to Ireland.
I hear Nolan is making a revealing prog about Lisa Dorrian,or was i dreaming?
Faced with a highly emotive case, those shouting about ‘truth and and justice’ often ignore the fundamental principle of law:-
In a civilised society, we’re presumed ‘innocent’ unless a Court deems us ‘guilty’…
Alleged Rape
The Complainant’s account of the alleged initial instance of sexual contact seemed to me to be very genuine. However, I was not likewise convinced by her explanation for frequently returning to the “scene of the crime” to be allegedly abused repeatedly during the following year – a range of propositions could be advanced to possibly explain away this oddity but until such were robustly tested before a Court there’s no real value in us speculating.
Accusation Against Adams
Ms Cahill contended, during her visit to Gerry Adams office he allegedly said “… the people who’ve been abused actually enjoy it…” (see video at 32:30 minutes). In addition to requiring Ms Cahill to discharge the burden upon her to prove Mr Adams ever uttered the aforementioned remark, I would require Ms Cahill to confirm whether or not reference to this specific accusation can be found a) in the story she provided anonymously to the Sunday Tribune b) in the extensive session notes composed by her Counsellor c) in her Witness Statements to the Police, d) in any other independent and verifiable recorded format, and otherwise require her to state e) when did she or anyone acting on her behalf first make a record of this accusation against Mr G Adams?
IRA Investigation Motive
@16:15: Ms Cahill recounts what she said alleged IRA woman Breige not least said to her – ‘we’re here to investigate… we can’t be seen to have abusers in our ranks’…’you need to tell us what happened’…
IRA Female Investigators
@16:30: Reporter recounts Ms Cahill’s initial interview with 2 alleged IRA officials (one female interviewer and one male observer) – ‘Mairia says she was too embarrassed to talk in front of Mr SF’, so thereafter she was interviewed by 2 women.
IRA Investigation Conclusion & Informing Parents
@24:00: Reporter recounts what the Complainant told her about the final IRA interview – ‘…Mairia Cahill says the IRA investigators told her, they did not know who to believe. The IRA then decided to tell her parents about their investigation….’
Complainant Refuses To Go To RUC
@25:00: Reporter recounts what Ms Cahill told about the period her parents raised the matter of lodging a complaint with the now disbanded RUC Police – ‘Mairia Cahill was still politically opposed to the RUC… and not ready to go to the RUC. Her parents convinced her to see a Counsellor’
IRA Personal Apology
@37:30: Ms Cahill confirms that she met the main female IRA investigator Breige who gave her a verbal apology, expressly recognising the IRA interviews had the effect of re-traumatising Ms Cahill – it is also important to note that Ms Cahill’s Counsellor stated (@45:15) that Mairia Cahill was being re-traumatised during Police interrogations.
Institutional Abuse
We all ought to be thoroughly ashamed of ourselves for our collective failure to ensure the various institutions operating within our society took appropriate care of vulnerable and abused people – if you know or even suspect abuse is or has occurred then REPORT IT… no exceptions!!!
It always amuses me to observe the amount of time and energy that Irish republicans devote to British state media stories. Pro-British shock jock Stephen Nolan appears to hold a particular fascination for many six county republicans. Many of the same republicans are practically illiterate on economic and political matters throughout the rest of the island. Despite having access to RTÉ and TG4 most northern nationalists appear to prefer ‘news’ through a distinctly British lens.
I note that you admitted to Gio earlier that you hadn’t seen the Spotlight programme.No doubt if you read the Sindo today ,your knowledge will have increased!Or maybe not!
I watched the BBC programme. Maíria Cahill opted to bring her story to the court of public opinion rather than to court.
She withdrew charges against her alleged abuser on the day of the court case. The decision appeared to be because an individual showed up who Maíria feared would speak for the defense.
That is puzzling.
Maíria says she was 16 and sleeping in a house when attacked by someone resident who she says was in the IRA. For whatever reason the abusive contact lasted a year and was then broken off.
Maíria told her story individually to some republican women who say they advised her or seek professional help. She did not do so. She was traumatized.
Inevitably, the IRA heard of it. They began an ‘investigation’ as it involved one of their members, that lasted some months. This traumatized Maíria all over again, particularly as the process appeared unending. War is an authoritarian business but is a singularly inappropriate methodology when applied to civil society.
What business was it of the IRA? The alleged abuser was apparently under their discipline, but Maíria apparently was not. Why not simply suspend the alleged rapist while the matter was unresolved (though that, like almost any decision, could be misconstrued as a cover-up). Also, why did Maíria not just say, I’m not participating in this process and you can’t make me? Perhaps she felt initially that the organisation had a role to play, though she says she never asked them to become involved. Perhaps she felt she had no choice, but coming from the Cahill family that seems surprising.
A complicating factor is that the programme named some of those in contact with Maíria as acting in an IRA capacity. That means, in effect, they cannot participate in the discussion. Everything done on behalf of the organisation is illegal. It is why Gerry Adams and anyone else accused of membership (and not convicted), must deny it. That is a fact of life.
There is no evidence that republicans Maíria told about her abuse set out to frustrate her or to cover-up her story. I don’t believe those who claim to be her new friends have her best interests solely at heart. Somewhere, between these two facets, is the true story of what happened.
In the meantime it is in the political domain until those promoting it feel they have done sufficient damage to Sinn Féin. Otherwise, in the absence of the alleged abuser coming forward, it is not resolvable, though even then probably not either.
Maíria should have tested her story in court. Perhaps in the court of public opinion things are more weighted in her favour. It seems so.
Peter
One thing they could do is stop this coy nonsense about calling for anyone with information to give it to the authorities. The people in Sinn Fein now must either know who was expelled for sex offences or they know who can tell them. Maybe start by asking Judge Seamus Finucane. So Sinn Fein should interrogate whoever knows the details and put that list together and bring it to the authorities themselves.
These are men still at large with possible history of sex offences.
Where are they now?
What were their offences?
Are they on some kind of republican sex offenders register or are they free to do as they please?
Gio
Quote from Martin Mc Guinness on B B C website today
” I believe that Mairia Cahill was raped”
Looks like the goalposts are being moved! In the light of his words and the contrast with Gerry Adams,a lot of the Sinn Fein posters may have to vary their stances!
Aye McGuinness fairly rubbished Jude’s “there wasn’t the evidence to support the claim and the man was found not guilty. I think that bears repeating…”
And it seems the black propaganda Seamy Fincuane and other members of SF were throwing about by someone without the guts to put a name to it has added flames to the fire.
Anyway Jude why was a rape case hidden behind the facade of an IRA membership charge? Surely not to give fanatics the chance to claim Mairia Cahill was a tout?
If Morris was innocent why was he moved to Letterkenny? Why did the other 4 keep their distance from him?
And why did the PSNI claim they had no record of a man who was a former prisoner?
Oh and judging by the latest case emerging from Louth why was the Gardai also unacceptable for victims of rape/abuse?
And why does everybody keep pointing the finger at Gerry? Thats 3 women now.
“The people in Sinn Fein now must … know..” How do you know?
“Sinn Fein should interrogate…” I think not.
The communities who reported the offenders probably know. Ask them. Do your own work or ratchet up your rhetoric some more. Your choice.
I added a comment after Miriam Lord’s Irish Times article today. A poster called ‘TheHurler’ asked similar questions to yours. That you? See it here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/this-was-not-leaders-questions-as-we-know-it-it-was-an-unprecedented-situation-in-the-d%C3%A1il-1.1973438
Peter
Are you suggesting that no-one in Sinn Fein knows any former IRA members with knowledge of people expelled by the organisation? I wonder have they tried asking.
If the communities who reported the offenders know then Sinn Fein know.
Any party that cared about these issues would haul in the relevant members and find out everything they know about sex offenders still in the community.
Surely that would be the right thing to do, no?
Jude, it is, regardless of what our history is, an offence, under the Criminal Law Act 1967, to fail to report an offence.
Certainly, there are many cases of members of Jim Alister’s former party failing to disclose what they know about offences, Patsy Kelly’s family may know about this however, it is still an offence so Mr. Alister was correct to raise this and the Courts, even our six county DPP, would be obliged to investigate this.