A: I’m finding this alleged rape of Mairia Cahill case more baffling by the day.
B: Join the club.
A: I’m told An Taoiseach is going to have a debate about the whole case “and wider issues” in the Dail next week. Why’s that?
B: Because he feels moved by Mairia Cahill’s case.
A: I gather there were over 200 cases of rape reported in the south last year, with a quarter of the crimes perpetrated by the victim’s intimate partner or ex-partner. Why has the Taoiseach not focused on one these cases instead of the Cahill one, which is alleged to have happened years ago and outside his jurisdiction?
B: I told you – he was moved by her case.
A: Does that mean he’s unmoved by the 200 + cases last year in his own jurisdiction?
B: Pass.
A: Is the alleged rape the only grievance that Mairia wants looked at?
B: No. She claims she was prevented from going to the police and was interrogated by an IRA kangaroo court. She found this traumatic.
A: How traumatic?
B: She took her alleged abuser and the four people she claimed were part of the kangaroo hearing to court.
A: To a real court? Not a kangaroo one?
A: No. A real court.
B: Which involved the police.
A: Yes. The PSNI, not the RUC.
B: So Mairia was OK with the PSNI?
A: No, actually. She was allegedly part of a republican group firmly opposed to the PSNI.
B: My head’s spinning. Anyway, she went to court and what was the judgement?
A: At the last minute Mairia withdrew her case. The man accused of rape and the four people allegedly linked to the alleged kangaroo court were acquitted.
A: She withdrew her case? Why?
B: Pass.
A: But she still feels that republicans put her through a terrible ordeal after her alleged rape. Particularly those involved with that traumatic court.
B: Well yes, but…
A: But what?
B: One of the four accused in connection with the kangaroo court has now released letters from Mairia, sent to her after the kangaroo court.
A: Presumably damning her to hell and everlasting torment.
B: Well no, actually. Quite the reverse.
A: Eh?
B: In the two letters she is full of thanks to the woman for her support and speaks warmly of visiting her for a cup of tea and a chat.
A: But …Did she not say this woman was part of the traumatising kangaroo court?
B: I gather so.
A: And she was on the verge of bringing her and others to court, only she changed her mind at the last minute?
B: Yes.
A: Then how come she was writing affectionate and grateful letters to this woman who was part of a republican process that she says traumatised her?
B: Pass.
A: Is there any link between these letters and the abandoned court case?
B: It appears so. The woman who received them says they would have been used by the defence if the case had gone to court.
A: I see. But in any case, the Taoiseach is going to have this Dail debate next week because he feels moved by her case.
B:Yes
A: Nothing to do with politics or getting a noose round Gerry Adams’s neck?
B: No, I told you. The Taoiseach felt moved by her case.
A: Is anyone feeling moved by those other 200+ cases?
B: Pass.
A: Curiouser and curiouser
B: Indeed.
A: Still the public feel strongly about the case. All those thousands out demonstrating at the weekend. You can see that it’s at the centre of their concerns.
B: Mmm. Here’s my bus. Have a nice day.
“Contrariwise,’ continued Tweedledee, ‘if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”…Lewis Carroll
Jude, maybe I’m missing something here, as im completely bewildered by your continuing unswerving support for Sinn Fein. You have touched on the reasoning behind the Taoiseach’s line of attack on Sinn Fein, but I would have been surprised if he hadn’t taken this stance. GA has so much baggage now that I’m actually lost for the correct cliche. The following are alleged but with foundation; he was a leader of the IRA involved in terrorism and murder, he had knowledge, and possibly more, of the Disappeared, he protected his brother for many years knowing his brother was a rapist, he was aware of the Cahill rape case and the involvement of members of his own organisation. Now if this guy was your direct opposition, would you not make as much mileage as possible of these allegations, and I have no doubt there will be more.
I asked you before and you did not respond, if these allegations were against Peter Robinson, what would your attitude be? Much has bee made of Robinson’s personal life and his involvement with Ulster Resistance, and I agree that is too much baggage for a political leader. But to possibly have GA as a leader in this country, north or south, dosent just make us a laughing stock, it sends out the wrong signals in many ways.
Thanks for the detailed thoughts, sweet William. Let me try to respond.
Of the many things you tie onto Gerry Adams’s tail – how many have you proof of, as distinct from media claims?
As to Enda, are you agreeing his concern is politically and not ethically motivated? And provides a splendid diversion from the water charge protests? If I was opposed to Gerry Adams or Peter Robinson or anyone else, I’d try to work on things that had evidence behind them. If I remember rightly, I faulted PR for the queasy-making TV appeal he made, not for any actions of his wife. I don’t think I’ve ever blogged on his Ulster Resistance thing, though I suspect I have for his Clontibret expedition (proved and paid for in court). I think who leads Sinn Féin, or who is elected by the people, is a matter for Sinn Féin members and the electorate respectively. I might or might not like their choice but as a democrat I’d have no choice but to accept their verdict. Martin McGuinness leads the nationalist/republican electorate in the north: I don’t hear anyone laughing at that. Or are they laughing inside maybe?
Ok Jude, firstly on the issue of IRA leadership. Many members of the IRA have indicated GA was in a leadership role, including Whitey Bradley and Darkie Hughes. We are aware he had numerous meetings with the British Government representing the IRA and was accepted as a leader of that organisation by the British. The media and many academics believe that GA was an IRA leader for many years, and sat on their so called army council. I really do think this is beyond dispute, and the vast body of opinion cannot be wrong.
GA admitted he was aware for quite some time what was going on within his own family, but because he did not support the civil administration he did not report the fact to the RUC. We are slightly unsighted, but by his inaction, he may have allowed the continuation of the offences against his niece. He allowed his brother to continue to work within Sinn Fein and have access to children.
He admitted he was aware of the offences against Mairia Cahill by members of his own organisation, and did nothing.
He was implicated by a number of people in the abduction of the Disappeared, and was arrested and questioned by the PSNI over the material in the Boston Tapes. This really is the only point that can be contested, the previous points are fact.
As I have stated, it is entirely understandable that the Taoiseach is attempting to make political points over the issues with GA. I cannot say if part of his issues are of a moralistic view, that is within the Taoiseach’s own mind, but certainly it is to undermine him politically
“The media and many academics believe that GA was an IRA leader for many years, and sat on their so called army council. I really do think this is beyond dispute, and the vast body of opinion cannot be wrong.”
Not many academics, some. As for what the media ‘believe’, who knows. What we do know is that they make that charge, a lot. What we also know is that they have yet to provide any evidence to back up the charge. In fact, so far, the only ‘evidence’ have been the words of people who have stated clearly that they are opposed to the GFA in particular, and the peace process in general. For years Mr. Adams was a thorn in the side of the British establishment, and yet neither their police force (the RUC) nor their intelligence agencies (MI5/6) were able to find any evidence that GA was a member of the Army Council. None.
Gerry spent time in prison, endured a number of assassination attempts. Yet for some reason he is afraid to admit he was on the Council? Why? Has such an admission harmed the political career of Martin McGuinness or Martin Ferris? No, it hasn’t. So why should Mr. Adams continue to deny this accusation? Unless it isn’t true.
Thanks for that — a breath of fresh air in foggy issues.
It seems possible The Taoiseach will try to fog things up again, though.
I’m not a betting man, but can smell the turf.
Somebody and some party is going to win voter sympathies at the end of the day, it seems.
And it’s unlikely to be FG.
What would it take for you to doubt Gerry Adams Jude?
That old-fashioned thing called evidence. For example, my guess is he was in the IRA despite denials. I also guess those denials have some legal implications that don’t apply in the case of, say, Martin McGuinness. And frankly, I think people clapping their brow in horror that he’s telling a LIE are faintly comic. He says he is and always was totally supportive of the IRA. Looks to me like angels on pin-heads. And how about turning that around, neill: what would it take for you to admire Gerry Adams or anything he’s done?
That’s a good question I could never admire him but I could respect the fact that he is a survivor and looks as though he might get to the top of the greasy pole.
Fair enough answer, neill. I feel the same way about PR…
Doesn’t everybody?
Jude,
Correct. Those demanding GA confess he was a leading PIRA figure want that admission so they can scream for his imprisoned for 2 years; as per GFA sentencing protocol – this couldn’t happen to M McG as he was imprisoned for membership in the 1970’s.
No they want him to be honest about his past doesn’t it annoy you in the slightest that there is no many unanswered questions about Adams?
Would that be a Freudian ‘no many unanswered questions’, neill? I think it’s safe to say GA was at least an important figure for, if not in, the IRA. I don’t care which it was. And the many other charges – he should have gone to the police, he should have turned his brother in, he should have…I’d feel safe in saying he’s broken no law, otherwise he’d be in the slammer faster than a rat up a drainpipe. That leaves him and his own conscience. I’ve enough trouble coping with my own many wrongs, I’m not going to presume to catalogue GA’s for him.
An Taoiseach has been clearly misunderstood. He has been deceptively clear about the privatisation of water and consequently wishes to begin his election campaign in earnest.
It might be useful to have a debate in Dáil Eireann about the number of people leaving the country. Evidence shows that half of the 81,900 who emigrated in the year to April 2014 were Irish nationals (40,700) (49.7%). Most of the people leaving were educated to third level and were either at work or a student prior to departing. (Source: Central Statistics Office 26 August 2014).
It is, however, important that time is devoted to the complex issue of suspected and actual abuse given the plethora of reports that have been published on the subject since the foundation of the state as articulated by Thomas O’Reilly in his poem ‘Daingean Reformatory’ (Appendix 4 ‘The Irish Gulag’). “The high walls were thick in Daingean/They muffled the flogging screams./Why did it take so long? To stop this suffering?/By the people who knew, and had the means?” (Arnold 2009:329 – 330).
A lot of abuse took place over the years in schools and church groups where Sinn Fein members would have been thin on the ground.The SDLP in particular would have been over represented in the teaching profession in particular and if inquiries commence they could be asked did they have any inkling as to what was going on.Was everything kept “in house” or were suspicions reported to the relevant authorities?Likewise in the south where SF would not predominate in these middle class professions.
Dialogue (cont)…
A. “So what’s with all the media and everybody picking on poor oul Gerry? It’s not as if he wants to run the country or anything.”
B. “Erm..I think he does actually.”
A. “Oh I see. So nobody wants someone that might have covered up child abuse or rape in the government.”
B. “God no we’ve had enough of that stuff. Better to find out now I would say.”
A. “Fair enough. Well what about all these other ones Mairia Cahill talks about? I’m not too clear on them.”
B. “Did you get round to watching that Spotlight show yet? That might be a good place to start.”
A. “Well no you see my VCR packed in and I’ve been busy and that. Anyway I prefer to make up my mind without all the facts.”
B. “Fair enough. Well they all say they weren’t in the IRA, just like Gerry.”
A. “Was anybody ever in the IRA?”
B. “No.”
A. “So they were just trying to help her as ….”
B. “That’s right, community representatives”
A. “You mean the IRA.”
B “No. Stop that.”
A. “OK. So I suppose they put out detailed explanations about all those meetings Mairia says she had with them. You know to explain what really happened. Seein’ as they weren’t in the IRA and all. Put the record straight eh?”
Tumbleweed blows by……
One was so taken by your bus stop dialogue, Esteemed Blogmeister, that one was even compelled to put aside the book which had been so engrossing one, to wit, the newly published biography of W.T. Cosgrave by Professor Michael Laffan.
The same W.T. who was wont to travel on the 77 bus which used to ply the route to Tallaght, via Rathfarnham. It was a single decker bus, rather than a double decker one, back in those dear dead days not at all beyond recall. The days when one could buy a one for four transport ticket.
The q. which this biography has been persistently begging Perkie is as follows: in this age of the D.I.Y.ography (see under B.O.D. and R.O.Y.), the ghost-written biography which is then palmed off as a D.I.Y.ography, can this book in hand have actually been ghostwritten by the late, grating W.T. himself? So sympathetic is the book to its subject (don’t laff) and bearing in mind that it ill behoves all of us, not least the dead themselves, to speak ill of the dead, one can but surmise.
(Cos is the leprechaun for foot, as every caleb in the street knows by now, and as Cosgrave has had both feet firmly planted in the maggoty g. since the year of our Lord, 19 Hundred and Dot, he is eminently qualified to ghostwrite his own D.I.Y.ography in this, the age of Dot.com)
But this is a question which must be parked by Pekie. So clear, concise and clouty was your conversation it ought to be the subject of a conservation order, EB.. Indeed,t it would not have looked at all out of place over the byline of Arthur Miller himself if he had been minded to pen the screen play of the movie ‘Bus Stop’ which starred the cherry-lipped Marilyn Monroe in the role of Cherie. (She may have been re-imagining not to mention demaggioing herself from Di Maggio at the time).. This movie also involved a rodeo cowboy called Beauregard ‘Bo’ Decker and a kidnapping.
Curiously enough, the topic of your bus-stop conversation, Esteemed Blogmeister, also involved a kidnapping (of the truth) by a mind-set which has a certain disregard, if not a Beauregard, for the t-word. The mind-set of certain, actually, all yellow-pack, red-topped cowboy columnists but especially one (l to r, the fifth) in the Free Southern Stateen. Who like to finger jab and accuse others of ‘truthiness’ even while flashing their own Tutti Frutti tuttiness. (No names, no pack drills, no tool boxes).
-Well, I had to do something, he was making such a fuss of me in front of all those people.
Was a touchingly lamentable line which was uttered by the cherry-lipped Cherie during the movie.
In an odd way it brought to mind that Hug. The Hug on the top steps of Government Buildings, Dublin 2. The Hug which begged the question: Ar thug seisean an bharrog di no ar thug sise barrog do? / Did he hug her or was it she who hugged him?
Pardon the leprechaun, Esteemed Blogmeister, but Perkie must be mindful that he may have some discerning readers from the leprechaun-speaking barrio of Loyalist Londonderry. Not to mention the bilingual parish of Cill Bharrog/ Kilbarrack in Dublin’s fair city. The same city whose downtown centre is beginning to take on all the trappings of Lough Durg by the day. Let’s hope it does not put the leprechaun-speaking Loyalists from Londonderry off making their annual pilgrimage to the Deep South.
The perfect tense of the leprechaun verb of ‘to give’ is ‘thug’ and, as even the calebs in the s. know, is pronounced with a h, as ‘hug’.Not all all to be confused with the type of terrorist endemic in the Indian subcontinent, known the ‘Thug’.
Some sourfaced begrudgers might contend that The Hug which so hogged the headlines in the Free Southern South was also ‘perfect’ in its own way.
Ni ga a ra/ Ca va sans dire, but Perkie is not numbered amongst that carping cohort. Rather does it fill Perkie’s inner pessimist with a jeroboam of foreboding. For it brings to mind another publicised occasion on the same steps of the same Goverment Buildings in Dublin 2. Steps with which he was once as well acquainted as J. Buchan was with other ones, 39 in number.
It was an occasion which involved another beautiful woman (oops, almost wrote, buttiful !) called Benazir Bhutto, one from the Indian subcontinent and not the cowboy and kangaroo outback of West Belfast. . Perkie had artfully positioned himself on the step behind the surname of the full, sari-clad female form of the former PM of Pakistan as she addressed the Troops of the Trough, i.e, the media.
Well, goodness gracious me, if a love-sick Perkie’s heart could not stop bobbing to the throbbing of his aorta. Benazir’s husband/political rival/ally called Ali was safely in chokey at the time, possibly for not following Mickaleen Flynn’s philosophy ‘to preserve the proprieties at all times’. Not least the financial ones. Chokey may wall have been the notorious penitentiary known as ‘The Black Hole of Lahore’.
. At the time BB was out of office and was indulging in an CJH type rubbercurry chicken circuit of the Packie counties,, though on a global scale.
Whereas the curry and yogurt Cathal Mac Eochaidh (who could hee-haw with the best of them, but only when the occasion demanded) was accompanied by the scary, omni-present, non-sari-clad PJ Mara the beautiful Benazir was chaperoned by a creature altogether more terrifying: her mother in law.
She, a hawk-visaged sari-clad old dear, took up a position to the side of ‘an bhean eile’, Benazir and watched her son’s wife like a peregrine for the entire durian-tasting duration of the Press Con. to make sure no t went uncrossed or i undotted.
It was a scary experienced in a sai-clad sort of way.
Hence, Perkie’s foreboding.
Perkie, clearly nobody knows the troubles you seen (with apologies to Paul Robeson)
Yes Jude,
I think you have hit on one of the biggest flaws of the human condition – the “double standard” known also as ‘hypocrisy’.
Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein are well aware that Enda and the media establishment are once again about to execise their double standards but they also know this is all perfectly transparent to the electorate North and South.
If I were a senior member of Sinn Fein I think I would just repeat the mantra that these issues could possibly form the basis of cout proceedings and therefore any public comment by anyone related to the case would quite possibly be innappropriate!
I expect Enda and his cronies are going to be decimated at the next general election and I suspect that they see the writing on the wall and are now of a mindset to “thrash the flat before they are evicted”!
Sorry, para 4 – “court” proceedings
Jude
I once blogged you telling you about a film I watched Ryan’s Daughter, it always comes into my mind when confronted with topics like Jean McConville or Maria Cahill, it’s like committing a sin, if your a catholic. You don’t recognise the courts police etc etc closed shop.
Why would any woman put herself up for such ridicule, I am very disappointed in all of you. I cannot believe the attitude of the majority of yous.
Last night I was watching Stormont on TV
I googled Jennifer McCann and Pat Sheenah, forgive me if their names are wrong they could be Minnie and Mickey Mouse for all I care. Anyway there I was wiki pedi or whatever, and you’ve guessed it, full pedigrees dripping with murder, time in prison, and this is not heresay or allegedly.
And I just thought to myself, are they all like this, that these people are in charge of my destiny, my day to day running of this country.
Do I think they knew about Maria, I would bet my house, car, savings, they knew, and why you defend them, or even put yourself out there is baffling.
Any way the mass supporters of SF I liken to a toss of pigeons, all huddled together not breaking ranks……..Maria is an eagle,and they hunt alone.
While I hate to ruin the soaring rhetoric of your last sentence, Norma, I think a quick re-read of it will show you it’s just a mite short of the facts. I mean, ALONE??
“full pedigrees dripping with murder, time in prison, and this is not heresay or allegedly.”
Yes, it is allegedly, Norma. Not one of those people you mentioned were sentenced for murdering anyone. It simply looks like you make things up as you go along – a bit like William Frazer.
If you have facts then quote them. Use them to back up your arguments. Don’t just bloody make things up!
To be frank, the sheer amount of unfounded allegations that our Unionist brothers and sisters on this blog throw about daily is disheartening and outrageous.
A point which seems to tie in with the Original Post – it appears that Republicans are guilty until proven innocent.
To be frank, the sheer amount of unfounded allegations that our Unionist brothers and sisters on this blog throw about daily is disheartening and outrageous.
I might never get over that unfounded allegation ; )
Neill – this is terrifying. My God, man – you’ll remove a prime slagging-off target if you keep talking like that!
Norma,
Mairia Cahill abandoned her claims before a court of law, when she observed a new witness appear whom she knew was there to discredit her intended evidence (check-out the pre-trial disclosure procedure and you’ll better appreciate this fact).
Should any society be expected to offer an alleged victim more than counselling and ‘their day in court’ to seek justice against those they accuse of wrong-doing?
Don’t you have any respect for your British courts, and in particular its ‘not guilty’ verdicts in the Mairia Cahill case?
Given the aforementioned verdicts, is the current political and media ending profiling of this abandoned case not a perversion of justice?
Same old same old Norma. Trying too hard to be ‘moderate’.
You tell me then Ceannaire, I can only read what is on my computer. it states quite clearly regarding the two people I mentioned.
Jennifer McCann and Pat Sheehan. Both served time. Full paid up members. Oh I nearly forgot, there is and never was anybody in the RIRA PIRA IRA ETC.
Just as a point of interest because clearly the Catholic population knows everything about everything. How many members sitting in Stormont from the PROTESTANT family have pedigrees like that, please answer I would really love to know.
When I was a young girl I can remember and up and coming young man called Edgar Graham gunned down outside QUB. The MP for Strangford John Taylor nine bullets pumped into him. Even a man of G-d the Rev Bradford… The list is endless, we don’t go on and on like yous.
My motto in life is this Good always over comes evil. In the end, you have to pay, if not in this world certainly in the next.
Norma – the two people you mentioned were NOT sentenced to murder. You clearly called them murderers. That is slander, irrespective of what you think of them. It is quite clearly wrong. That was my point.
And it’s linked to the wider point of Jude’s article: namely Republicans appear to be judged guilty whether they are guilty or not – as I said, guilty until proven innocent. You appear to confirm that theory.
Norma, please don’t take this as disregarding your views. I’m not. You have your views – and while I don’t agree with them, I accept them as how you see things. But, please, let us stick to facts.
Neill, despite our differing world views, I’d say you would be fair bit of craic over a pint (do you think Jude would pay for a night out for us under the auspices of cross community work)?
Wwith Judes massive pension he should do will he though?:-D
Well of course I have a massive pension (should be far bigger, since I’ve worked so hard for so long)…but what should I do, Neill? Sing ‘The Sash’?
That would be well worth seeing and hearing -:)
I’ve enough trouble coping with my own many wrongs.
This is a family site we dont want to know what you academic types have got up to in your private life…..: )
Equally bizarre is the fact that the person who was alleged to have carried out the rape seems to have vanished from media and political scrutiny. It began of course with the Spotlight programme and has been a theme of the political and media discourse since then.
Then bizarrely we had the statement last evening when a civil case was threatened against the 4 people represented by Peter Madden and of course Gerry Adams. Note no civil case threatened against the person who was allegedly involved in the rape. This was then followed by the call for an investigation into the (non) behaviour of Jennifer Mc Cann.
So bizarrely we have a concentration on 6 people with current connections to SF, while the person alleged to have been involved in the rape, well nothing.
I don’t wish to sound insensitive, and full disclosure I do believ that Mairia Cahill was raped; however, instead of going to the police, she went to the IRA. The provos didn’t hear about the rape from some local rumour mill, it was reported to them directly by the victim.
So what exactly was Ms. Cahill expecting to happen when she went to an armed insurgency group known for using violence ?
Either she believed that the IRA would murder a fellow provo without any type of proceedure or investigation (which anyone with even a passing knowledge of how the provisionals operated would know wouldn’t happen) or she fully expected the “kangaroo court” treatment. Now she is saying that justice is being denied to her – and I agree – but instead of looking for justice, she was looking for revenge.