How to deal with critics

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I was going to blog this morning on last night’s TV debate but there’s not that much to say. The three women  – Plaid Cymru’s Leanne Wood,  the Green Party’s  Natalie Bennett and especially the Scots Nats Nicola Sturgeon –  made the four male leaders look like  shop-soiled mirror images of each other. Apart, of course, from Nigel Farage, who managed to display his nastiest as distinct from his nattiest side. OK? Can we all agree on that?

Because I want instead to talk about the VO. I’m tempted to say that this being Good Friday, I thought I should suffer a little and buy a copy, but that wouldn’t be true. I bought a copy all right but it was for the present Mrs Collins, who was boarding the Enterprise for Dublin and might, I thought, appreciate some reading material. Unsurprisingly she recoiled with horror when I offered it to her and shrieked “I said get me a newspaper!” before leaping aboard the Dublin train, shaking her fist out the window. So I took it home with me and glanced through it. As so often is the case in many of our newspapers, the most interesting part was the Letters page.

The one that caught my eye today was by Patrick J Dorrian, who sometimes comments on this site. It appears PJD had written a letter on bonfires and my old chum Nelson McCausland had responded to some criticism it contained. He didn’t like being called a senior Orangeman, even though as PJD points out, he’s in the Orange Order and is 60+ years old. He condemned PJD’s original letter as “a hate-filled diatribe” and an attack on his culture.  PJD today points out that collecting for months and then burning tyres is not a good idea, just as it’s not a good idea to urinate on church or private property, and to criticise these things is not to attack Nelson’s culture. And he notes that Nelson doesn’t  display much leadership in not having a word of criticism for such conduct. Now there’s a surprise.

If you check the ‘About me’ section of this blogsite, you’ll see that I’m proud to cite some words about me by Nelson. His reaction to PJD is pretty typical of the response to anyone who criticises any aspect of Orange culture: you are condemned for being consumed with hatred against all things unionist. An example: I was on Talkback on Radio Ulster/Raidio Uladh yesterday (yes I know, Virginia, I know) and I was asked about the government funding of marching bands. I made the point that I agreed with Basil McCrea, who’d emphasised the extent to which these bands were a source of fellowship and recreation, as well as developing musical skills, for hundreds of young men from Protestant working-class areas. I added that wise choices as to which bands were funded would be important, since some bandsmen’s idea of culture was to march in a circle in front of a Catholic church while playing the Famine Song.

You’ve probably guessed the next bit. A man called in to denounce my comment – the Famine Song bit, presumably – as sectarian. You got that? I refer to bandsmen who play sectarian music while marching in a circle in front of a Catholic church, and I’m being sectarian. ‘Strewth.

So, PJD, I don’t want you to think that you’re being singled out for denunciation. It seems that anyone Catholic/nationalist/republican who dares be critical of any aspect of Orange culture is a bigot (cf ‘About Me’) and is motivated solely by hatred of all things unionist. It’s called kicking the man and not the ball. But I’m glad I came on PJD’s letter – makes me feel less alone. In fact, it almost makes me glad I bought the VO today. Almost.

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27 Responses to How to deal with critics

  1. Aidan Donaldson April 3, 2015 at 10:45 am #

    Unless collecting wood for months, burning tyre (and effigies of the Pope) and urinating outside Catholic churches is part of one’s culture…

  2. Am Ghobsmacht April 3, 2015 at 10:57 am #

    It applies to anyone who criticises certain aspects of Orange and marching culture.

    I spent a great deal of my youth at various parades and competitions and had a blast.

    I was not comfortable with people on urinating chapels then and am even more against it now, but as soon as you point this out to people on the unionist side of the fence it is taken as an attack on the whole shebang.

    I’d like to know what words and what word-order are needed to get the point across “I like these bits of marching culture, but not those bits, any chance you could tone it down a bit mate?” without it being interpreted as “YOU HATE FILLED BIGOT! WHY DO YOU HATE MY CULTURE SO MUCH YOU LUNDY!???!!”

    Answers on a postcard please…

  3. Argenta April 3, 2015 at 11:17 am #

    On reflection,what newspaper should you have bought for the present Mrs Collins?!! Does she share your jaundiced view of the Irish News?!

    • Jude Collins April 3, 2015 at 11:27 am #

      That’s a very good question, Argenta, and probably better directed at the good woman herself. Like God, she moves and chooses in mysterious ways…

  4. PJ Dorrian April 3, 2015 at 11:19 am #

    GRMA! Jude

    • Jude Collins April 3, 2015 at 11:26 am #

      Na bi buartha, PJD – no problem.

  5. Perkin Warbeck April 3, 2015 at 11:19 am #

    Speaking of critics, Esteemed Blogmeister.

    In the very week that the demise of Gaelic Football was being greatly exaggerated, what happens?

    Why (gulp) its most trenchant critic, and coiner of the much celebrated phrase, Bogball, unexpectedly popped his clogs. Clogs, incidentally, the left of which was decked out in the green colours of his beloved Shamrock Rovers and the right one was adorned in the blue colours of his equally beloved Chelsea.

    One refers to the gorgeous and gregarious George Byrne of the Irish Dependent.

    May the sod rest lightly on his grave. Solas na morthire ar a anam dilis.

    Sometimes the Land of Ire truly is the Land of Irony.

  6. paddykool April 3, 2015 at 11:27 am #

    Now Jude …You know already that you’re not a lone voice crying in the wilderness. Guys like Nelson have no idea what capable leadership means and will attack and strike out at any logical criticism in the shadow of an election. The idea is to take the criticism on board and and learn from the odd mistake .There’s no learning anything here.We’re all banging that knocker against closed doors and closed minds .Deaf, dumb and blind boys.

    Re. the Famine Song .It’s a pity that that old Jamaican folk melody it has been bowdlerized in such a crass manner .At least the Kingston Trio and later Brian Wilson in the Beach Boys, brought a melancholic longing to their renditions, unlike these circle -wandering , tail-chasing cretins who did nothing else but piss on their own shoes. Surely there had to be some their own kin sorely affected by this same Irish Famine in an undivided Ireland . Famine didn’t ask your religion or political affiliation , I’d imagine. Then again , maybe they were playing the Sloop John B…..???????

  7. Iolar April 3, 2015 at 12:05 pm #

    A sterling performance among some euro sceptics

    The debate last night featured issues on economics, unemployment, health, education and racism. Leader of the Scottish National Party, Nicola Sturgeon, delivered a scathing critique of Tory austerity policies with equal measures of precision and passion. Will Plaid Cymru’s Leanne Wood and the Green Party’s Natalie Bennett’s presence in the debate pose any questions about the total lack of a female presence at leadership level in the Assembly? One had to feel sorry for the man who felt obliged to telephone the BBC after the debate in order to complain about the lack of representation by politicians from this part of the world. It would appear that the north of Ireland is light years behind Finchley.

    What are the burning issues in the body politic apart from flags and bonfires? Well there is evidence of orange pacts, TUV boorishness towards a female political opponent, the SDLP about turn on salary increases and ambiguity about support for a Tory administration. At least we know where Ms Sturgeon stands on welfare reform and support for students.
    The rationale not to include political representatives from the north of Ireland in a televised debate should come as no surprise to a disinterested observer. We are struggling through an unprecedented economic crisis. The greed of bankers and entrepreneurs contributed to the crisis. These issues are not reflected in current political priorities. Bonfires or bandsmen playing sectarian tunes and urinating near catholic churches may be regarded as culture by some in this part of the world, it is obviously not a view shared in London.

    We are told ad nauseam that there is no money for welfare reform, health or education yet there does not appear to be a problem with the cost of policing what passes for culture in the sick counties.

  8. neill April 3, 2015 at 12:09 pm #

    Nationalists and Republicans have a problem with parades breaking news bear shits in wood….

    • ASR April 3, 2015 at 2:27 pm #

      Good to see the point wasn’t lost on you Neill. Please try and read the blog carefully. It definitely helps.

    • Francis April 3, 2015 at 3:42 pm #

      …further to developments on the Bear’s retreat to the woods, after interview the Bear Cited that he went in there in haste, not just for a call of nature, but also to because a British Army hunting Party was combing the Area, and he didn’t want to be made in to a Hat (check the Guardian for verification of this ongoing noble tradition) for the Ornate Toy Soldiers who guard the Tax dodging Windsors, burning enormous, quantities of perfectly recyclable amounts, in frenzied Bonfire competitions across the north…..Kultcher, Herr Nelson, Kultcher!!!

      • Francis April 3, 2015 at 3:56 pm #

        Cut and paste error before sent, and I didn’t do justice to poor Goldilocks’ misgivings about the woods feeling threatened themselves, given the scale and Zeal of the 11th night Eco terrorists in their ever increasing appetite fir burning things.

        Now if it was just Witches in the other hand? That would be an ecumenical matter as Jack might say. Less wood would be needed, and less Witches if course serves us all. Contact was made to the DUP press office in Larne for an official rake on the matter, but a large scanned picture of the Witch in the Wizard of Oz was on the office window. We must seek these Evil Witches out, then we could maybe bring our whole Community together in ecumenical harmony at their burnings.

    • Ruaidri Ua Conchobai April 4, 2015 at 12:26 pm #

      Neil,
      It’s time you ceased perpetuaing evil lies and myths and dealt with the facts and reality:-

      Q01: Of the 4,000 pus Unionist parades each year, is it or isn’t it about only 5% that are deemed contentious Yes/No?

      Q02: Should Nationalists suffer instances of “Unionist culutre” whereby they stop outside Roman Catholic churches to spend half an hour spewing this disgusting sectarianism? E.g http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18829447

      Q03: Should Nationalists of Ardoyne suffer instances of “Unionist culture” whereby they play disgusting ‘Billy Boys’ song and spew this vile sectarian abuse at residents? E.g http://youtube.com/watch?v=eijsqQxVtms

      Q04: Is the annual and nation-wide burning of effigies of the Pope and Irish Tricolours what you regard as “Unionist culture”? E.g http://www.eliteimagelibrary.com/Northern-Ireland/Bonfires/i-vFjdtP5/1/M/NIR_7045-M.jpg

      People like you are just the sort of fools Nelson “the bigot” McCausland adore duping into spreading their divisive sectarian drivel. Wise-up!!!

      • neill April 5, 2015 at 11:03 am #

        I can assure you I am duped by nobody however not many other people can say that on this blog perhaps it would be useful for you to study your own communities faults still I wont hold my breath on that happening

  9. giordanobruno April 3, 2015 at 1:04 pm #

    Jude
    You need to get out more.
    Most people of my acquaintance find this behaviour disgraceful.
    I would say the vast majority here in our occupied 6 would agree.

    • Jude Collins April 3, 2015 at 3:25 pm #

      I’m trying desperately to remember when/where I denied this. Help me, gio, help me. (There’s a song in there…)

      • giordanobruno April 3, 2015 at 5:16 pm #

        Jude
        The implication in the phrase
        “But I’m glad I came on PJD’s letter – makes me feel less alone.” seemed to be that you were a voice in the wilderness regarding this behaviour.
        Perhaps I read it wrong. Happy to accept that.

        • Jude Collins April 3, 2015 at 9:56 pm #

          Well I do feel lonely sometimes, gio. Mind you, I’m also choosy about my company. But I do try to be mannerly – I blame my parents…

    • Ruaidri Ua Conchobai April 6, 2015 at 1:32 pm #

      Neill,
      You asserting that ‘Nationalists and Republicans have a problem with parades…’ is just atypical flegger denial and whinging which is contradicted by the relevant government data and visual evidence.

      Man-up and directly answer my above questions, without engaging in whataboutery – don’t you realise people really are laughing at your absurd deflecting nonsense?

      We have some fantastic bands in the North. But they will never be more than tolerated by the Nationalist community until the Unionist community oblige their urban orange brethren to cease their vile bigotry which is not a legitimate expression of Protestantism or British culture. It’s disgusting bigotry, plain and simple and it must end!!!

  10. fiosrach April 3, 2015 at 2:22 pm #

    Never mind the political lightweights in the motherland,did you see the ground-breaking programme from Fermanagh? If the polls had been open I would have rushed out there and then to vote for the Hibs candidate. Such control of language and ruthless attacks. Wonderful! Unfortunately his 3000 votes may dislodge Michelle. If they come round your door, ask them why they are standing in FST when they have no hope of winning. To let the UDR man in?

  11. ANOTHER JUDE April 3, 2015 at 2:41 pm #

    Unfortunately guys like Nelson will never change, the only way they will even start to consider others is when their imperial masters across the water do away with their own anti Catholic constitution, that low key bigotry is what sustains people like Nelson. Until then Nelson will continue to inhabit his own little world, where everything, including the SKY is RED, geddit?

  12. Sherdy April 3, 2015 at 2:49 pm #

    Jude, you made the mistake of being brought up in a home where decency was the norm.
    To deal with someone like Nelson, you need to go for the jugular first, to spike their guns.
    He needs reminded of his involvement in the Red Sky debacle, and if that doesn’t work, how about his involvement in the Turkington Windows troubles.
    Nelson and his DUP mates do not know the meaning of debating (or fighting) clean, and your choice is either to give up the struggle or to let them know that you’re not just a kindly old gent.
    Go for it, Jude, you might even get to enjoy it!

    • Jude Collins April 3, 2015 at 3:23 pm #

      Sherdy – stop. You’ve no idea the demons that struggle within me…

      • Am Ghobsmacht April 3, 2015 at 6:03 pm #

        Dr C

        Furthermore to Sherdy’s suggestions I’d (if I were you/had the nuts for public debate) make a great deal of noise about the Christian aspect of himself, his party and the parades.

        There are deeply religious people within the OO, many of them decent.
        If you can land a blow that makes the OO look like it’s disrespecting The Lord then you could claim to have drawn blood.

        The trick is not to sound like a hysterical Catholic (apparently God doesn’t like them, so annoying them is OK…)

        Food for thought Dr C, I have a dog in this fight too…

  13. Ryan April 3, 2015 at 3:11 pm #

    Marching in a circle outside St Patrick’s Catholic church (a sectarian practice that has been going on for years, according to the local residents, so certainly not a one off and I’m sure it happens in other areas), having “Kick the Pope” Bands, playing sectarian tunes, carrying anti Catholic banners, carrying banners to remember UVF serial killers, urinating outside a Catholic church, etc is not culture and will never be seen or respected as culture and Unionists are absolutely DELUDED if they think this will be tolerated.

    Anti Catholicism is not “culture”, its hatred, its bigotry and anyone who is foolish enough to think its “culture” are no better than the KKK. In fact, a KKK flag was put up in a number of Unionist areas last year, if I’m not mistaken. Joe Bratty, a notorious UDA member who was shot dead by the IRA has a band named after him in Scotland. Joe was a notorious racist and hated Catholics and even had KKK tattoos. Only a couple of months ago they held a remembrance parade for him and his buddy gunned down by the IRA in South Belfast and who was at the service? allegedly DUP’s Edwin Poot’s son, who was there by “accident”.

    Would the KKK be given funding for bands? Would they be allowed to parade past or through black neighbourhoods to play provocative tunes and display banners of individuals who were notorious for murdering Black people? No, not a chance. So why should the Anti Catholic loyalist/orange bands be allowed?

    Not much to say about Nelson McCausland other than he’s a bigot and a great fan of Jude’s blog from what I hear lol on a serious note, its people like Nelson who foolishly think hatred and bigotry can be excused in the name of “culture”. In the 1990’s and before Nelson and his pals certainly could get away with this but its 2015 and hatred, bigotry and sectarianism has no place in a decent society and Catholics wont be tolerating it anymore.

    Its time Nelson and his pals pulled their heads out of 1690 and realized they’re in the year 2015.

    • neill April 4, 2015 at 7:35 am #

      Following on from your last point I am sure that being the case you won’t be celebrating the 1916 commerations then will you then afterall that would be pure rank hypocrisy wouldn’t it?