I watched Collusion on RTÉ One last night reluctantly. Not because it would reveal fresh horrors but because I expected it to tell me little if anything that wasn’t contained in Ann Cadwallader’s book Lethal Allies and elsewhere. My expectation wasn’t disappointed.
No, that’s not quite true. There were moments in the programme that I found revealing. Two of these involved Ken Maginnis, the ex-UDR major and MP who has now morphed into Baron Maginnis of Drumglass. The interviewer mentioned something David Cameron had said and the good Baron looked as though he was about to hit someone, maybe himself. “The boy Cameron! The boy Cameron!” It sort of went on from there, with the good Baron making it clear that he had a low opinion of the British prime minister. I may be wrong but the impression I got was that he was comparing the Boy Cameron with the Baron Maginnis, and that it was a comparison of boys with men, or at least one boy with one man.
The second moment also involved the Fermanagh Baron. In the wake of an explosion that killed a number of British soldiers, the then Mr Maginnis got a phone-call from Maggie Thatcher. She wanted to know if the UDR major knew who did this. The major gave her three names, and a few days after the three people were shot dead by the SAS. Mr Maginnis’s reaction was that this was good, because that was three IRA men who would be involved in no further subversive activity.
This was interesting because I suspect it expressed bluntly the views of quite a few then. There was outrage that the IRA were engaged in acts of lawlessness, but when those acts of lawlessness were met with acts of equal lawlessness by the ‘security’ forces, there was satisfaction.
Among some unionists, the name Bobby Sands provokes anger, and his revered position in republican iconography is criticised on the grounds that Sands was a member of the IRA and was imprisoned after a gun battle with the RUC. Ken Maginnis, by his own…I was going to say ‘admission’, but ‘assertion’ or even ‘boast’ last night was involved in the deaths of three people he says were in the IRA. He passed these names to Thatcher, who clearly passed them to the British army, who promptly killed the men in question.
Although there were at various stages during the Troubles calls for the return of capital punishment for terrorists, this never happened. However questionable, IRA suspects were put through Diplock courts and sentenced to imprisonment if found guilty. Lord Maginnis of Drumglass – and Margaret Thatcher – clearly saw this as a cumbersome inconvenience, set aside the law, picked out three men the Baron believed were responsible for the killing of a group of British soldiers, and the men were promptly executed.
Most stories of what happened here during the Troubles I can assimilate without too much bother. This particular one I find breath-taking. A man declares proudly that he gave three names to the British Prime Minister and the British prime minister passes these to the British army, and the three men are found and killed. Is there national/international outrage? It doesn’t even make the headlines.
As to the courage of RTÉ in making Collusion? What a pity you didn’t make it thirty years ago.
By his own admission the mercenary Maginnis was an accomplice to murder…is that seriously not a confession of guilt ?, ….not made under duress in the romper rooms of Castlereagh but on TV with the assured knowledge that he has the backing ( without fear of prosecution ) of this corrupt statelet and it’s banker , Britain,….” Lethal Allies “, ” The Committee ” etc etc, whilst helping to expose Unionism’s/Loyalism’s unscrupulous subornations .will do nothing to bring justice or even closure to the victims , unless there is concerted and unrelenting pressure exerted by the Government in the 26 counties …….whose duty it is to protect all the children of the nation equally.
Watching this last night the thought struck me that perhaps there may be legal grounds for suing Maginness, after all there was no evidence produced against the men, they were never given a chance to face their accuser, so in actual fact they were killed because Maginness could have them killed. No wonder the Troubles lasted so long wit h bastards like him supposedly enforcing law and order.
So the PSNI will not be knocking on Ken’s door anytime soon to determine his role (if any) in extra judicial killings ?
I think the bigger question of PSNI credibilty needs addressed.
How many Special branch remain in the service ? What is their role ? Have nationalists jumped much too soon in supporting this service ?
Jude
I haven’t had a chance to watch it yet, but I have no doubt it only added weight to the suspicions must of us have.
Anything that sheds some light on our murky period of conflict is to be welcomed in my view.
Victims and families have a right to the truth, even if justice is very unlikely to follow.
Indeed the rest of society have a right to know what was done in our name, by state forces and Government officials.
Though it is tempting to take the view that it is better to leave the past buried so we can all move on, I do not think that is the (in any sense) right way forward.
Whataboutery is hard to resist, but I will confine myself to stating it would be nice to hear the full truth from Martin McGuinness (left the IRA in 1974) and Gerry Adams (managed to hold a central position of influence with the IRA and physical force republicanism, without ever being a member).
The State were charged with protecting Citizens gio. Insurgents were never consulted. That consultations however, and Murder, premeditated, co-ordinated and Executed with ruthless efficiency by the State directly using liberal control of Sectarian Mass Murdering proxies in Unionism, certainly requires Particular attention perhaps in this Part of the Liberal Democracy United Kingdom…..British as Finchley? Those poor Constituents in Finchley! I hope there is an inquiry as to what happened to those Citizens…I shudder to think.
Of course, muddying the waters?,- tempting when it comes to Ireland. The State however does not share legal parity, with an insurgent group trying to usurp it. Unlike the British State, and proxy right-wing Death squads, intentionally Mass murdering innocent people to sow the seeds of Terrorism, the insurgent groups were not signed up to protect a Constitution guaranteeing Citizens Rights in Law.
As a footnote, I don’t recall ever understanding any of the Republican Main groups endorsing a regime of determined Sectarian mass Murder of non-combatants….yes I here you, Kingsmill ect ect….A policy of such directed attacks on people because of their Religion,- they would have rightly been discarded by a Community already under extreme duress by Assassins directed by the State attacking them, and promoting attacks on them for their Religion….Muddy waters?
Quite clear, despite propaganda to the contrary.
Francis
We should hold our government and state forces to the highest standard. I hope you do not think that somehow absolves the insurgents as you call them.
The people in a society have a responsibility not to go about killing their fellow citizens, especially perhaps, if they proclaim themselves the legitimate army!
Sorry Francis you are completely wrong I know you wish the IRA to be good guys they clearly were not and never deserve to be regarded as good guys.
What annoys me about the argument put forward by republicans is that it was a war that being the case the IRA never took any prisoners and yet complained when its members were dealt with in a very similar way what happened here was dirty and unpleasant however it comes back to the same question are we going to try to convict everybody who was involved in it or are we going to draw a line and say move on I don’t honestly know what the best way forward is and I suspect most people don’t
I guess another question is this if there hadn’t been terrorist campaigns by Republican death squads and their loyalist counterparts we wouldn’t even be discussing this would we?
One or two issues with this blog today.
Is Baron Maginnis telling the truth?
Would Lady Thatcher just send in people to dispose of the IRA men on his word?
How many other politicians have been fingered by either side in the troubles?
The shot IRA men did they expect to be treated with leniency?
Once again Anne Cadwallader should declare an interest……
Give us y our answer to questions 1, 2, 3 and 5, neill. And explain what you mean with 4 and 6, please…
only asked 5 questions…..
Jude, it’s not clear if you ever feel the need to research anything before commenting on it, but the events at Drumnakilly in Co Tyrone in 1988 have been well documented and can be fairly easily checked. You write that Ken Maginnis gave the names of three individuals to Margaret Thatcher and `they were promptly executed.’ You go on to report that the three men were `found and killed,’ and say you regard this as breathtaking.
What you could have said was that three armed IRA members, accepted by that organisation to have been on active service, set out to kill an off-duty UDR soldier, but were themselves ambushed by an undercover British army unit. It had all the hallmarks of other shoot to kill operations of the era, but the circumstances were plainly not quite as you suggested. Was it Oscar Wilde who said that the truth is rarely pure and never simple ?
And were they Armed Kevin? Oh, the State said they were…now I understand. Of course they were then. The guns might even be in the Imperial War Museum In the Enemies section. Convenient, that unlike one of the bloody Guns the State used for the for the Ormeau Road and other atrocities, these phantoms may never be scrutinized by contemporary eyes.
Francis
According to an phoblacht they were on active service.
Maybe it was run by Special Branch too.
Active service does not necessarily mean, armed. I’m thinking Gibraltar…
To be fair to Jude the whole thing was pretty slapdash. The fading into black of the deaths of those three men and even their names seemed aimed more at concealing than revealing.
I have no idea if Ken actually thought that his sharing the names of the three men led to their deaths, but it seems clear to me that operationally he was feeding from at least part of the same intelligence trough as the SAS.
Occam’s razor suggests they knew an awful lot more about the operation of that IRA ASU than the programme makers seemed interested in pursuing. Price of war as Barney Rowan said, nothing, that I could see, unlawful about it…
https://goo.gl/bqxac3
He certainly gave the impression it was his passing on of the names that led to their deaths, Mick, and he certainly seemed pleased that they’d been killed. The description of the killing makes one thing clear: the SAS believed it was entitled to kill anyone they figured were IRA, no questions asked, no question of arrest. Sounds like…what’s the term…ah yes. Shoot to kill.
Lord Road Rage was a member of the UDR, that says it all. His opinion of Cameron was very illuminating, his conversion to love for Thatcher seems a bit strange considering the way Ken and the others used to burn her effigy. I suppose it`s the old adage `my enemy`s enemy is my friend`. It was also interesting to hear Hugh Orde confirm the collusion, I don`t remember him saying much about it at the time. Hearing Seamus Mallon talk about the dismissive way British pip squeak minister Douglas Hogg, the man who set Pat Finucane up for murder, reacted to his accusation only brought home the futility of so called Irish nationalists sitting in the British parliament. The rationale behind the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and other loyalist attacks, ie, to light the fuse for a full scale civil war, one in which according to the RUC/UVF man Weir the guns of the UDR (and presumably the other state forces) would swing the balance in their favour, was actually quite logical. I agree also it is a pity RTÉ didn`t make this thirty years ago, at the time they were enforcing Section 31. Bernadette was right, the war is over and the good guys lost.
The state can do no wrong is the ingrained mentality. Let us focus on what the Unionist leadership tells us about the troubles and its aftermath. It was a war.
It wasn’t a war.
They were terrorists.
We were ‘the good guys.’
Anti-terrorist operations.
The end justifies the means.
We were betrayed by our own government.
Scream Lundy for talking to others.
Themun’s lost. We are in control even when we are not.
They took our flag.
Themun’s get everything. Who is this aimed at? The devoted followers of Unionism wary of a Judas, and themuns so they both know their place in the order of things. Psychological warfare. Finally I want to address recent comments that there are informers in positions of high authority. Perhaps so that is true, perhaps it’s more psychological warfare. I mean a line of their work was to harm the republican movement. Look now at who is sharing power in Stormont and who is the most popular party on the island. In fact I would be more worried about the fevered state of Unionism if all they can see is spooks and spies and lundies everywhere.
Why hasn’t Ken Maginnis been arrested over this? he’s just basically admitted and boasted of being involved in the murder of 3 people. The collusion between the British state and Loyalists/RUC/UDR/etc was definitely systematic and as time goes on we’re now seeing what was dismissed for years as “republican propaganda”, even by the SDLP too by the way, has now been proved to be completely factual.
The Irish Government too have serious questions to answer, the most obvious one being: Why did they cover up British state murder of their own citizens for over 4 decades? I’m referring to Dublin/Monaghan Bombings in particular, not to mention sat idly by while Britain murdered hundreds of Irish citizens in the North.
Enda Kenny meets David Cameron in London this Thursday to discuss issues at Stormont. I personally regard Mr Kenny as a cowardly, career politician but he has a chance of redeeming himself in my eyes by publically demanding the release of British files on ALL collusion here and ensuring it happens but I wont be holding my breath.
Meanwhile, on the topic of Ken Maginnis, I wonder when he will be arrested by the PSNI for his admittance of collusion? I know one thing, if it was me or some other average Joe who boasted on TV that they passed the names of 3 individuals to someone and those individuals were murdered, the PSNI wouldn’t be dragging their feet to arrest and question me and rightly so.
But in our wee pathetic statelet in the north corner of Ireland the Law hasn’t existed for years, centuries even, how? because as they say: “When those who make the law break the law then there is no law”.
Well said Ryan. I wouldn’t hold your breath on Maginnis the brave having an epiphany before then, and redeeming himself.
The gloating by Ken Maginnis was something to behold and stood in stark contrast to the forgiveness of Mr Mc Donald at the programme’s conclusion.
On another note, I can’t help but think of the times RTE had on their flagship ‘late late show’ British Secretaries of State for a good old chin wag and denouncing of Republicans as the devil incarnate, all the while they were running state sponsored murder gangs to wipe out Irish citizens. Republicans who cried foul of British State collusion weren’t even allowed on the airwaves, another form of Collusion which will also be exposed.
Not much vision of a ‘shared future’ with Maginnis I guess. I am hoping against hope that the more airtime this topic gets in the republic, people will be swayed to seek the real truth about the conflict. Maybe thye will understand why Justice for the Forgotten perseveres in the quest for the truth about the greatest single loss of life in the history of the state. Maybe they will ask that their representatives demand answers and information from Britain about this . Maybe they will question why agent provocateurs(Littlejohns) and security force insucsions into their territory were never full explained. Maybe public sentiment will realize that the IRA did not operate in a vacuum, that the murder of civil rights marchers and the killing of innocents lie as one of the root causes of the conflict. Maybe
Interesting, Jude. To think that this is the 800th anniversary of “The Grand Charter” which supposedly enshrined the principle that everyone would be tried in a formal court of law and that Habeas Corpus could be invoked if someone was imprisoned without just cause. But of course, both internment and shoot to kill policies made a mockery of these principles.
You were a wee bit disappointed, Jude, because you knew all this. But there are people who are totally unaware that these things happened – I jest. The Tyrone Baron is a thug and has convictions for attacking civilians yet Cameron invited him to sit on the Tory benches lately. It never ceases to amaze me that an intelligent man like yourself somehow believes that these exposés will somehow open unionist/British eyes to what really happened here in the colony. These stories are provo propaganda and to admit that they actually happened is to open “an appalling vista”. Get over it! We lost the war.
Not sure about the lack of an international outcry to Baron Drumglass’s admission about shopping three errorists to Baroness Thatcher, Esteemed Blogmeister.
But certainly with regard to the Free Southern Stateen there has been an absence of the sound of breaking glass to the admission of Baron Drumglass. Could be, of course, something to do with the general acceptance here of Bonaparte’s summing up of the English psyche.
That would be the Corsican corporal whose proboscis to this very day, in the shape of a basaltic outcrop, looks down (in every sense of that word) upon the wee shopkeepers of the Shankill and Sandy Row itself..
Shopping is what shopkeepers do, after all. Most especially when their Taoiseach called Thatcher happens to come from the background of a grocer’s shop in Grantham, no less..
Greengrocers of course trade in perishable goods such as ‘glasrai’ which is leprechaun for ‘vegetables’ though one suspects that Baron Drumglass’s choice of a baronial title was not prompted by a costermongering background. Despite his richly-deserved title being primarily down to his sterling contribution to the consumer society. Of which, shopping (his speciaity) is a crucial component.
It is truly meet and just, incidentally, that his Baronetcy should be of the perishable, life-peerage variety.
As for RTE’s being thirty years too late after the ThirtyYear Dirty War, This opting for the delay button must, however, be seen in the context of the time. Such a programme would have – shudder ! – automatically removed the avuncular presence of Uncle Ken, the FSS’s favourite UDR Major from the chat-shows of RTE.
The question of pulling the UDR officer, one understands, was not a major consideration.
Broadcasting Great, Gay Bryne, for instance, would never have been able to perfect his fawning skills without the semi-permanent present of Uncle Ken as a guest. So often did his reassuring viasge – with his bushy moustachioed bluster – appearance screens south of the Black Sow’s Dyke,, indeed, that there something of the basaltic outcrop about his very conk.
These were the dark days in Dublin when the siren signature – nee naw, nee naw, nee naw – was the soundtrack of Liffeyside Streets. And to be accused of harbouring the A-word was the ultimate social indiscretion. A, of coursse, for (gulp) Ambivalence.
Thus, the distuinguished members of the hackitaiat took to wearing flak-jackets and to double jobbing as,erm, Ambivalence chasers. There was nothing remotely of the Ambivalent about Uncle Ken, ar ndoigh/ ca va sans dire.. He, who stood four square on the side of the rule of law, due process, justice for all, internment camps, non-jury courts, shopping, that sort of thingy.
There is much to-do not to mention raic, ri-ra agus ruille buille about Clery’s Clearance Sale at this moment in time, going forward, on Liffeyside. And in particular how unfortunate the timing of the abrupt closure of this,erm, iconic Department Store should be in the context of the Easter 1916 Jamboree on Both Sides, next year.
Well, yes and no. Fact is, the current Greasy Till Government treats 1916 very, very seriously indeed. That, after all was a, if not indeed the landmark year in the history of consumerism. That, after all, was the very identical year when the first ever self-service shop on Planet Earth was opened: the, erm, Piggy Wiggy Self-service Shop in Memphis, Tennessee. Home of the King and the St. Jude Golf Classic besides.
(Perkie trusts he is not betraying a trust when he divulges,sottto voce, mind that the Key Note of the 1916 Jamboree next year will be the bugle call to open the first every Piggy Wiggy Self Service Store on the same site where Clery’s used to be. Ready as ever to give the GPO directly across the street a good run for its money. And that the Guest of Honour to performerm the cememony of the tape snip is a Closely Guarded Secret. For official eyes only,like. Except to say he has a distinguished track record in retail).
Sad, that we may never again(sob) hear the legendary lament of the apocryphal shrill female shopper as she emerged into the daylight of Downtown Dublin from the downstairs furniture department of the iconic store: ‘I got felt in Clery’s ! I got felt in Clery’s !’.
Nonetheless we can console ourselves that there are sounds just as joyously unambivalent awaiting to take its place.
To conclude on a topographical note: Drumglass.
Derived from Droim Glas in the original leprechaun. Which means it can be literally translated in a myriad of ways, leprechaun being nothing if not the ultimate repository of,erm, ambivalence. (See Dineen, Dictionary of).
Droim, for instance can mean, either a ridge (as in hill) or a back (as in person). On balance, Perkie’s inner amateur philologist leans towards a kick to touch, the ambivalent dude’s first recourse.
And so, plumps for; Ridgeback. To find there is indeed something not an all unapt about that preference. For a Ridgeback is a breed of hunting dog first developed in the, erm, Orange Free State, and bred to bay lions. An ability to keep lions at bay, until its master or indeed, mistress (as the case may be) arrived on the scene to complete the kill.
The Ridgeback is also trained to hunt other animals in their area, such as wild pigs, baboons, and guerrillas (bot urban and rural).
As for the Glass bit.
Again, being originally in the leprechaun, one has a choice of ‘green’ or indeed, ‘grey’.
One is free to take one’s pick.
PS Ambivalence, thankfully, has all but disappeared from the vocabulary of public, erm, discourse/ conversation in the FSS. Though there was a short-lived resurgance of the word in recent times.
As in the ambivalent Jack Grealish: would he or would he not declare for Ireland?
Happily, this ambivalence has been erased from the dictionary and the Lad Grealish has finally, erm, come down on the side of his Irish roots over his native land, his sceptred isle of England,his other Eden,his demi-Paradise.
And in the most emphatic manner possible. By having his selfless selfie took by another of his butties as he lay there in the gutter of Teneriffe, ‘passed out and pissed’.
Come in to the parlour, Jack, there’s a pattern of vomit stains on the mat;.
Results of today’s High Wit Stakes: a dead head between “I got felt in Clery’s!’ and “Come in to the parlour, Jack, there’s a pattern of vomit stains on the mat”… How do you do it, Perkie. Bravissimo…
Ah, shur, twas the day that was in it, Esteemed Blogmeister.
Bloomsday, renamed Stephen’s Day for the occasion. While you underprivileged folk in Norneverland had to be content with a mere Ulster Fry we had its distinguished namesake as our Guest of Honour.
Dublin’s very own Daedelus in the Sun. Dublin sur Liffey, where THE best English in the whole wide English-speaking world is spoke. Nothing Iffy about that modest claim either, as might have been witnessed yesterday.
By the sight of thick-padded jossers in straw boaters and blazers enveloping the streets and lanes and courtyards of the city, carrying Jiffy bags of Joycean agenbites of inwit and tossing same to passers by and bystanders alike, be they innocent or guilty of not perusing the Novel.
One has but to witness the litany of literary grates who have been awarded for their Lunch Time Achievement to Literature. No city in the history of the written word has ever managed to paunch so much about its weight.
Nothing at all Iffy or Butty – oops, not till yesterday did the latter apply.
Which dawned bright and early upon Perkie’s innner high-brow beaten pilgrim as he sat by the snot-green, scrotum-tightening sea at the Martello Tower on Sandycove. Breakfasting in the time-honoured fashion on ‘grilled mutton kidneys which gave to his palate a fine tang of faintly-scented urine’.
(And not before time-honoured time either, some might claim).
Needless to say, the cynosure for sore eyes at the breakfast was the man himself / herself: ‘Stately, plump Panti Bliss even as she/he came from the staircase, bearing a bowl of lather upon which a razor and a mirror lay crossed’.
Such is the excellent foppery of the Free Southern Stateen, at this moment in time, g.f.
Lean ar aghaidh, A Mhaistir Ionuin Blog, le do lamh laidir dhearg. Biodh se i gconai teannta mar dhorn..
Ta go leor, leor smigeanna fos ann amugih ansin a bhfuil smeach grod tuilte, agus thar a bheith tuilte go maith acu.
For some inexplicable reason the programme did not include the judiciary in the collusive activities, even after the exposure of the good Lord Lowry.
Maginnis is still agrieved about Bloody Sunday and Cameron’s apology in Parliament. He believes that the paras should have been decorated as Wilford was – not to mention Gen Sir Mike Jackson. Saville dodged the obvious collusion before Bloody Sunday which then allowed
Cmeron to blame a few squaddies and their rogue commander. Remarkable the paralllels with the Monaghan case.
So Ken Maginnis has once again stepped in the doodoo.? His Old Bufferness seems to be unable to keep his boot out of his own mouth, even in his political dotage, in the boondocks. I suppose he does this in the Colonel Blimp knowledge that they’ll allow the old elephant to harumph and stomp and excuse him for the the old unreconstructed dinosaur that he actually appears to be .An old blunderbuss lost in time.His glum stentorian tones as oddly out of whack as Rolf Harris finds himself in the modern world. Like you say , Jude , so sure of his own righteousness that he doesn’t even know the difference between right and wrong and feels protected in his ignorance. It sounds like himself and Maggie ,broke the law of the land , doesn’t it?
So let’s look at it .If he admits to collusion, as he appears to have done outright {no contest} , is he going to be whisked into a courtroom like our old friend Rolf? After all , the creator of “two little Boys” and “Tie me Kangaroo Down , Sport” may have painted Her Maj but he wasn’t responsible for killing anyone…Okay he had a twist in him and was a bit of a fiddler , but he didn’t collude in anyone’s murder and the Queen certainly didn’t step in to save his bacon. Will anyone step in and save Our Ken’s backside or will we see his bacon being neatly sliced into rashers in a courtroom near you soon?
Appalling vista 2015
At present it costs £3330,000 per month to police Twaddell Avenue. PSNI officers monitor the proliferation of flags. There is no breach of the peace. If flags are removed that is a breach of the peace. Leading Orange men have complained about the lack of action in relation to a promised, ‘graduated response’. A baron barren of ideas insults the British Prime Minister and gloats over bloodshed. It is evident that the Tories are happy to play the Orange Card even though it continues to cost a fortune to support this failed political entity.
*Amendment
Figure to read £330,000 per month.
As a victim of collusion (my fathers murder weapon was a police issued weapon never recovered) I sat in the gallery last night in the Stormont motion on collusion utterly diumbfounded by the behaviour of the DUP. Might I add I have little knowledge on MLAs so was totally unaware of the identity of these ‘lads’ until after.
I recall nothing of the content of the speech given by Paul Frew as his behaviour was despicable ….they sat in the back row sniggering, directed at the victims. One lady was so upset se had to leave the public gallery. He played with his mobile phone for a 50 minute period. When going to vote, he attempted to make eye contact whilst whistling.
His behaviour was chilling.
The DUP and Alliance party then threatened the victims and survivors by stating that ..’they would not get truth structures set out in the Stormont House Agreement unless welfare cuts were accepted by all parties’.
There is no reason that this should have been discussed other than blackmail. Benifit cuts have NOTHING to do with mass STATE murder….
They redirected the motion to be heard at a later date, not accepting the motion of state collusion, but paramilitary collusion only…
Apaling and stupid given the vast amount of factual evidence. It would have been in their best interests to agree given that the world is watching with bated breath, many human rights activists and international human rights groups have been giving this issue so much footage its irreversible the fools….
I am sorry for the loss and your desire for justice and if I were in your shoes I would probably ask for the same.
As I have said before do you wish everybody and I mean everybody who played a role in the troubles to be prosecuted or should we have an amnesty and as a victim perhaps you have a greater insight into this than most?
Most active republicans were imprisoned or killed during ‘the troubles’ (anyone who uses that word is being a bit offensive to all victims). Most state sponsored terrorists got medals, promotions or money. If we are to hold people to account this process would involve a lot more policemen, soldiers and British intelligence being charged. It will never happen unfortunately. Ireland doesn’t really care, most of N. Ireland doesn’t want to know and England would never want full disclosure.
Worth noting that RTE News didn’t even think the revelations in the Collusion programme worth mentioning on their 6 o’clock news.
But agin, Neil, surely there is no equivalence between state murder and paramilitary murder. You cannot in one breath, refer to one group as honourable and another as terrorist and then attribute the same moral parameters to each. You must be able to see the absurdity in that argument.
I view murder as murder if a policeman or soldier killed somebody in cold blood they should face prison time in every ways state forces have to have higher standards.
The IRA and Loyalists operated very low or non existent standards how many prisoners or acts of mercy did they offer over the troubles.
However the bottom line is this if terrorist campaigns hadn’t existed we wouldn’t even be talking about this subject.
So are you saying the IRA was really to blame for Bloody Sunday, neill? And that any soldier who kills ‘in cold blood’ (how does one take blood temperature?) is guilty of murder?
Republicans and their loyalist counterparts had a large role to play in the Army being here without terrorist violence the army would not have been here indeed the Govt. viewed sending troops in as a last resort
That however does not excuse what the army did on Bloody Sunday what happened was wrong and I think everybody is fairly clear on
Neill (thinks: this is the fifth time today roughly…I’m definitely going mad) – I was a child of the 1940s. One of the earliest sounds I heard was that of gunfire. British soldiers stationed on the other side of the river engaged in target practice…
Bottom Neill, the history of British involvement in Ireland has been brutal. To blame the natives for making the British come here is nuts. The creation of a ‘loyal’ ascendancy with deep hatred of Catholicism is the worst of the long lasting effects of British Colonialism. This scar has become an embarrassment to the British who now want to sweep it under the carpet- they created the monster, now they can’t make it disappear. No one knows how to deal with the ‘dirty war’ , it is disgusting and it will inevitably escalate again within the next 20 years. We have not learned anything from history. The republic only realised relative peace with the complete withdrawal of British control, this is the only way peace can prevail in the north. I fear a lot more lives will be ruined before a permanent solution comes.
Neill, yawn. What came first? The chicken or the egg? I think you will find Irish resistance came after the planter stock decided to make Ireland their back garden. No planter, no resistance, no collusion, no discussion. Move on Neill.
It must really piss you off Wolfe tone that my forbearers kicked your forbearers off their land and into the bogs…
I bet the original Wolfe Tone would love how you misuse his name.
Mr Miginnis and his bunch of so called colleagues where guilty of more Murders and had a hand in a lot of them against the nationalist people in the border countys backed by the state