Picture by Northern Ireland Executive
Is Sinn Féin’s John O’Dowd right when he says that there are ‘war junkies’ addicted to violence? That some dissident republican groups have been infiltrated by MI5 and that both the infiltrators and the infiltrated want to see violence continue? It’s hard to say. Certainly when O’Dowd points to the past, it was clear that MI5 and other state agents had infiltrated both republican and loyalist ranks, and had no qualms about being involved in acts that cost people their lives. The general belief back then was that the British state would never condone such actions. Now we know better.
We also know that MI5 have a large, handsome building on the outskirts of Belfast. We know that the police have conceded that MI5 is active in combatting dissident republican violence. Assistant Chief Constable Will Kerr has said that intelligence gathering is vital in the fight against dissident republican violence, but that the notion of violent acts being encouraged or participated in by state agents – these things “simply could not happen and do not happen”.
That’s reminiscent of the many assurances that were given by officialdom about all sorts of things, going back as far as Bloody Sunday and beyond. The state has time and again rejected claims of violence perpetrated by its agents, and time and again been shown to have lied.
Although it’s not needed, we now have Assistant Chief Constable Kerr’s word for it that intelligence-gathering is being pursued within dissident ranks. Does anybody believe that MI5 is staying strictly at arm’s length, collecting information electronically and scrupulously avoiding engagement in violence alongside dissidents? That active engagement “simply could not happen”? Constable Kerr says that is the case. I doubt if many others share his belief.
Britain for decades has used the north as a testing ground for various forms of policing and military control: water cannon, plastic bullets, internment, Diplock courts. With a spanking new building for MI5, they’re hardly likely to sit on their hands or by a computer screen, if they think they can manipulate republicans and Irish people generally for the benefit of Britain.
War junkies or serial killers? Not a lot of difference.
how would john know,ceasefire soldiers like to hear themselves talking,
Billy, I would say most of the before ceasefire soldiers agree with him.
It doesn’t matter if John wouldn’t know – he’s still correct.
Almost as much as fireside fusiliers Billy, almost but not quite……the bedroom brigadier also likes the sound of their own voice something serious too !
ACC Kerr did not address the issue about the fact that some informers appear to have immunity from prosecution. Such an approach brings the law into disrepute. The iconic image of a policeman breaking the law when he hit a Civil Rights protester full force in the stomach with his RUC issue baton was exposed to a world wide audience. The rest is history. The state is expected to protect citizens and apply the law impartially. The role of the security services in Kincora will continue to unfold as the real culprits move beyond the reach of temporal law enforcement. The ‘spooks’ and the ‘spymasters’ have not learned the lessons of history. Their modus operandi is part of the problem. Instability will remain a fact of life in the north of Ireland without the impartial administration of justice.
Not only has M15 comfortably installed itself here but the army has also surreptitiously and sleekedly crept back onto the scene. Britain and their planted mouthsoldiers here are and have always been “war-junkies”….. in their eyes the lives of the natives have always been expendable.We have a ludicrous situation where the “Police” don’t police,don’t try to uphold the law….illegal Unionist paramilitary organisations still openly control and murder in their perceived “own “areas , illegal paramilitary flags bedeck every road and the response is “THE REMOVAL OF FLAGS IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE POLICE SERVICE OF NORTHERN IRELAND.” (Chief Superintendent Nigel Grimshaw )….Racism and hate crimes are casually brushed aside or not seriously investigated “We would welcome the opportunity to speak to anyone who has information regarding hate incidents.However this is very much a community matter” Superintendent Robert Singleton .
Where are we going , Is Britain and the Unionists ( PSNI included ) trying to drag us back into the hell we have just escaped from…..now that could be a BIG mistake !!!
Well said Seamus.
I suppose that when you consider that old Edward Heath, an ex- and very dead Prime Minister, is now latterly under investigation for supposed sex crimes , anything might be possible.There’s a tendency to go chasing evidence long after the perps are neatly planted below decks.
It doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense wasting all that hard cash on a dead one, but that’s essentially what they seem to do. As for all this MI5 stuff .Well ,I love a good conspiracy like everyone else. When I was a teenager I lapped up all that good stuff about UFO’s and Von Daniken’s books like “Chariots of the Gods” about supposed aliens seeding the planet many millions of years ago ….Great old science fiction hiding as science fact. He had a great run with that never ending series of books. The Bermuda Triangle was another great boon to the mad theorists .The facts are that there is no evidence for any of the theories that can be validated so eventually scepticism beds in and you simply don’t believe anything unless you can see it with your own eyes.
…So let’s see the proof of the allegations.I know we can all be as paranoid as fuc…. and we all love a good old rattling yarn , but what exactly would the British government gain from any involvement in any of this. I thought they were looking for a really good excuse to offload Norneverland sometime in the future, when nobody else was watching too carefully….. but how would that work with the dissidents?Is it just a matter of using the place as a low-level training ground for future games in the Middle East? That would make a certain amount of sense, I suppose, but realistically , they learned so much during their involvement here since the late 1960’s…and we all know how the game eventually came to a conclusion here…the “settlement” and that….why would they want to keep the thing rattling on?
For us simple, one-track minded folk in the Free Southern Stateen, Esteemed Blogmeister, things are getting a tad confused of late. Waters is being muddied.
Today we read of ‘war junkies’ in MI5. For those of us addicted to our daily ration of RTE and its big shot shotgun rider, The Unionist Times, that is a term solely associated on these islands with the Unwashed of Ulster 6. Terrorist violence being part of its DNA.
In a double whammy today we also wake up to read of Edward Heath being mentioned in the same sentence as (gulp) cottaging in the Cotswolds.
EH?
At first one thought of the other Ted Heath, but no it was the one which sprang to mind first that was being referred to. The confusion is understandable as both were contemporaries and both were musical.
The other Ted Heath, of course, was a bandleader who began his career as a trombone player in the swing era and one of whose signature tunes was the Hawaiian War Chant.
The political Ted Heath,on the other hand, preferred to play the organ in the local church when he wasn’t tapping his fingers at official functions to the solemn beat of the Lion and Unicorn War Chant. .
Now, alas, there are ghastly allegations from an unholy, ghostly past that the organ he played might not have been entirely his own. That he might even have had a secret passion to blow the trombone.
How can this be? Next thing we’ll be hearing is that Ted Heath the PM liked to dress up in the privacy of his rooms in the vestments of a RC Bishop. Like the politician Heath, Cliff the popstar, another under a cloud, had a passion for the disarmingly simple melody: ‘Bachelor Boy’.
One suspects a posthumous plot, a Republican one.
Just as one suspected one in the demise of another political contemporary of Ted Heath the Organist: Jeremy Thorpe.
In that case, of course, it was the dog what got to perform the macabre dance of death.
Rinka.
The Billys of this world carry on “the struggle” from the “high stool” and then promply shite themselves if the cops look sideways at them.They or their parents then come crying to their local SF rep and insist “wee Billy” is’nt a “Disso” at all. (Which is usually correct because to be a dissident you would have to actually have to leave the pub and do something!)
Michael C – I accept your right to express your views forcefully but I’d appreciate if you didn’t merge into abuse. Grma.
I occasionally stray into The Pensive Quill site and it is full of people lambasting Gerry Adams and the Sinn Féin leadership in general, accusing them of sell outs and the like, yet they have no alternative.It is easy to snipe from the sidelines but if Gerry and Martin and co. say the war is over then for me it is over.
“When those that make the Law break the Law then there Is no Law”.
The attitude of the British State, MI5, political Unionism, etc back in the 1960’s alone ensured that the Troubles here were inevitable. That attitude is still harboured, especially when the Conservatives are in power. British Army files, then secret, showed that they weren’t in pursuit of peace here but their objective was: “To destroy the IRA”. This they obviously failed to achieve and they admit that themselves, both publically and in secret files. The UVF/UDA were not to be seriously tackled at all, in fact UVF/UDA men were openly patrolling with British soldiers! Its needless to state here again about all the collusion the British state had with the UVF/UDA, in allowing them to commit sectarian murders of innocent Catholics, etc.
Today Stormont is on the brink of collapse due to welfare reform and maybe a decade or more of painstaking political discussion and compromise is at risk, all because of David Cameron’s vanity & austerity ideology. As Martin McGuinness recently said: “The British Government invested nearly infinite resources here to pursue a military agenda, we need them to do the same when it comes to peace building and ensuring stability”. If Stormont does collapse and God forbid violence breaks out here again, the resources the British Government will have to invest here in security will make the price of giving extra money to NI for welfare look like a drop in the ocean.
We can all be sure John O’Dowd is right. There is war junkies in MI5 and also the British Government and the Conservative party. Most of our Unionist neighbours don’t realize they are as much part of the testing ground being made of Norn Iron as any Catholic, they are just as expendable. Declaring undying loyalty to Britain, papering streets in Union flags and singing God Save the Queen didn’t stop them from being used as cannon fodder by Britain in the past, it certainly wont in the future.
Jude ,I rarely if ever disagree with you but “Billy” who is unknown to either you or me started the abuse by labelling John O’Dowd a “ceasefire soldier”.In my experience those that throw these terms in the direction of SF reps never put themselves in any sort of danger and are deserving of ridicule.John O’Dowd put himself forward in North Armagh when it was a real danger to do so whilst “Billy” talks big protected by anonymity.I think it is ok to point this out.
Michael C – I have no problem with your views – just maybe a bit less abusive, OK? Think of me as the boring teacher who patrols the class…
You never patrol the class when I am being bullied but then again I am not teachers pet…..; )
You point me out an instance of abuse as distinct from criticism, neill, and I promise you I’ll be there. My apologies if I have allowed same in the past – if I have it was an oversight rather than a deliberate act. I mean, do you know how long it takes to READ ALL THESE BLOODY THINGS before I put them up?????
Jude I was pulling your leg!
An ex special branch officer wrote a letter to the irish news saying that the massareene attack could have been prevented and that the man who allegedly organized it who died of cancer a year ago was a secret informer and targeted police to enhance his credibility.
At the trial of the two men who are in prison for shooting Stephen Carroll, their lawyer said the CIRA commander in the area was an ‘intelligence asset’ and that is why he wasn’t arrested.
‘Agent juliet’ said that the attack on Paeder Heffron could have been prevented but the police did not act on his information. Too bad journalists in northern ireland have zero interest in exposing links between the terrorists and the intelligence agencies.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/three-top-dissidents-are-on-informers-list-28521870.html The author of the letter, who purports to have been a Special Branch employee, suggests many dissident attacks could have been prevented
Alleged Continuity IRA leader named in Carroll murder trial
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16851715 He denied claims that the alleged Continuity IRA leader – named by a defence lawyer as Eddie Breen – was an informer.
http://www.derrydaily.net/2015/06/01/exclusive-ombudsman-probes-intelligence-cock-up-in-murder-bid-on-derry-cop-peadar-heffron/ This article is a month old but the story has gotten no attention at all from any big newspapers
Also the omagh families and an ex british soldier/ira informer say there was informers involved in omagh plot and attack was allowed to happen
Jude, I would just like to point out I really appreciate all the work you put in to reading and moderating everyone’s contributions. It must be laborious sometimes when you could be doing something else. But I am sure you have to admit you get a smile sometimes!
Hi Jude
having had time to look in for a while, your comments above are indeed fair and reasonable. The british have always sought and succeeded throughout our history in infiltrating republican organisations and if anyone believes that not to be the case then they know nothing about the history of revolutionary irish republicanism. I have no doubt that this continues to this day,recent history shows us agents like Scappacitti, Donaldson, Mc Shane were all well placed to assist the British within the Provisional Movement. The CRUC only last week were exposed as having tried to get a young vulnerable man to join an organisation and to plant weapons and explosives at houses and cars of known republicans. Those like John who chose to highlight alleged infiltration of republican groups would do well to clean their own backyard up first, since they are in clear support of the very people who seek to infiltrate these groups. Your final point on manipulation is indeed apt, because that is precisely what the brits have done with their GFA and all other so called agreements since.