Look on the bright side Jude, you sounded like a spritely young whippersnapper compared to Pat for whom I was concerned was going to croak before the end of the call.
The sad thing is Jude you are an intelligent man but that doesn’t come across on radio you ramble on to much keep to simple points keep it sort and be polite. The problem you had today was that you had no generosity of spirit it was mean spirited to have a go at the SDLP man and the campaign to convince people that you are fair minded suffered a major set back today I’m only saying this in a loving caring way!
Ha ha ha , neill – I’m so glad you feel my pain…Funny, I thought I was the one that kept to simple points while others attacked me as an individual (‘he’s always on’ from George, e.g. – this from a man on practically every day – go figger). I’m not sure what generosity of spirit would have looked like in the debate. Several times I made it clear that Pat and AP were entitled to take or not take British honours, it was their decision and no one else’s, but if Enda was asking me my opinion, here it is. Would it have been more generous-spirited of me if I’ve said ‘I think it’s a really good thing for Irish people to receive honours from the British queen, especially if they are nationalists’?
Jude, when Neill or any other Unionist says “show generosity of spirit” it basically means drop your own opinion and agree with Neill or keep your mouth shut. Of course, this “generosity of spirit” is very rarely (if ever) shown by Unionist politicians. Keep an eye on the Belfast Council meeting tonight when there’s a vote on a joint reception for the NI and ROI teams, we’ll be seeing an example of Unionist “generosity of spirit” on display.
I have nothing against Neill, I actually think he’s a bit funny but a strange individual, I just feel he needs a guiding hand.
“So you have a problem with facts so who would have guessed?”
Ah, well done Neill, you just exposed Unionisms problem. What you said was very far from a “fact”, it was simply your opinion, one which I disagreed with. Can you tell the difference between a fact and an opinion? stupid question really, actually wondering why I’m asking it….Unionism is notorious for regarding its opinion as a “fact”. My favourite has got to be: King Billy fought for “civil and religious liberty for all” at the good old Boyne in 1690. I guess all those historians who documented the penal laws against Catholics must be IRA men and made it all up!……#UnionismsLogic
Judn ,it’s a good job you managed to get in that denial about “bombing primary schools” before your ordeal ended or we could have been sending our posts to Jude Collins@ Antrim custody suite!
The SDLP is supposed to be a nationalist party.
That should mean that they are in favour of Ireland as a nation.
And if you’re a nation you don’t owe allegiance to any other country or its leader.
Acceptance of a supposed honour (which England will not give to any foreigner) implies your acceptance of England as ‘your’ country.
So surely if you’re an Irish nationalist you cannot accept that you’re a subject of another country.
And I say ‘subject’ as you cannot be a citizen of a monarchy!
If Pat McCarthy (or Tom Kelly) haven’t the wit to recognise this dichotomy, then there’s not much hope for them, and the Brits are welcome to them.
The opinions of a “couple” of callers hardly meets the criteria for an evidence based conclusion.
Then there was,
“…you live in the past…”
Please confirm if you have marched in military formation to your place of worship with accompanying bands, military and police personnel in full riot gear, in the past or that you intend to do so in the future.
Of all the recipients of awards mentioned, Roger Casement, received his award for investigations into Human Rights abuses in Peru.
It would have been interesting to debate the concept of the divine right of a monarch to rule. I suspect that rule was conceived by…a man, much in the same way another man decided he would become head of a church.
Wow, not the first time (and I’m sure it wont be the last) that an ambush of a republican minded individual (that being our own dear Jude) was done on the Nolan show, I think that was like 7 individual Unionists (including Pat McCarthy) against just poor Jude. Where was the balance? where is the callers with an opinion that shares Judes point of view? No where to be seen…..well, on this occasion, heard…..
One thing that struck me about that ambush (because it wasn’t really a debate) was how much Pat McCarthy sounded like a Unionist politician, that’s how he came across to me, there was a nasty streak to his talk, especially when he was talking to Jude. Is Pat sure he wouldn’t be more comfortable in the DUP or the UUP? What Jude should’ve asked Pat was: “Pat, are you opposed to British Imperialism, both past and present?”. If he is against British Imperialism, then why is he accepting a “Honour” associated with it? How can a supposedly Irish nationalist/republican ever accept an MBE or any British honour associated with the British Empire/Crown? Its simply incompatible, especially if that person is in a nationalist political party…..or so they tell us…..
The truth is Sinn Fein will be very happy about Pat McCarthy accepting this MBE, it will show the nationalist/republican electorate that the SDLP are not (and maybe never were) a nationalist party and I do honestly see Sinn Fein gaining votes due to this in the Assembly Election. When you have the UDA urging support for the SDLP, when you have SDLP members becoming Lords and accepting MBE’s, when you have SDLP leaders (Margaret Ritchie) wearing poppies, etc you know that something is seriously wrong there….personally, I’m hoping more SDLP politicians accept MBE/CBE’s and wear poppies, that way they will be non existent in 5 years time lol
By the way, as I mentioned on another comment on another topic page (I don’t know if Jude has approved it yet) where I said at the time I hadn’t listened to Jude on Nolan yet but predicted that “George from the Shankill” and “Alex, an ex RUC man, from Lisburn” will be on the show, it turns out I was correct! these two boyo’s are never bloody off that radio show and they were even on today, George from the Shankill showing great tolerance by saying its people like Jude that are “holding everyone back” and need removed or something I think he said. Of course this is the same George that sees no wrong in anti-Catholic, Orange parades marching in a circle outside a Catholic chapel playing sectarian tunes…..I really do think Stephen Nolan has George and Alex on stand by, I wonder why…..
You did well Jude, its not easy being shouted down and trying to get your point across, you certainly weren’t in a fair or balanced debate.
Well said Ryan. Of course people are entitled to do whatever they want. But, to call yourself an Irish nationalist and at the same time be happy to be associated with the British Empire – an empire soaked in the blood of the Irish and many other races, is just absurd. It would be like an equality activist accepting an honour from the KKK or a communist accepting an honour from Hitler. Do it by all means if you wish but it makes you look like a complete gombeen! Mind you, listening to the bould Pat there yesterday for the first time, I’d have to say that he didn’t come across as the sharpest knife in the drawer.
I didn’t get listening to the show but you probably expected to meet the lynch mob! You probably know the dynamics of those “shock jock” shows.
1. you get someone on the show who challenges the preconceived ideas or previously accepted dogma.
2. You load the panel with proponents of the alternative viewpoints.
3. You do not allow the guest speaker to respond to each time he or she is challenged.
4. You turn down the volume slightly on the Mike of the individual (soon to be victim).
5. Lastly as Montgomery Burns would say to Smitthers in the Simpsons “release the hounds” as the slavering pack of carefully filtered angry callers are eventually released to savage the whimpering victim into eventual silence.
Fair play to you for understanding “George from the Shankhill” he speaks far to fast for me to keep up!
Listening to the play back of the show it struck one how you will have appreciated, Esteemed Blogmeister just how Jim Bowie must have felt in the GPalamO in 1916 even as the Bash Street Gang of the British Empah were laddering their way up to break through his window.
The Gang Up ratio, in fairness, and in the studio too, one felt, was a tad unfair. Not least from the BBC which prides itself on evenhandedness, that sorta thingy. One soon lost track of the numbers emerging from the Blue Corner: was it 2, 3, 4 or 5? While you were the first and last man standing in the Green Corner.
5-1.
That was a truly outrageous breach of the impartiality which must lie at the very core of all civilized debate, oops, conversation.
25-1.
Now, that would have been a far fairer ratio on radio if the Blue Corner was to have even a reasonable chance of going the distance, much less snatch a split decision itself.
For whatever reason, this listener kept being reminded of an exchange between two former dabblers in the sock exchange: in the Blue Corner, as it were, Eamonn Andrews, CBE, while in the Green Corner, as it might have been, Muhammad Ali (-).
EA: You know, Muhammad, when I was younger and in my boxing prime, I once commentated on the bout before mine in our National Stadium, before dashing down from the commentary box to box in – and win! – the following bout.
(He did not quite use the phrase ‘divesting myself of my street clothes, Superman-wise’ but there was no need to: his very intonation dripped of the S-word. CBE’s can do funny things to the obe-sequious ex-Irishman. The title he won on that occasion, btw, was, erm, the Irish junior middleweight crown of 1944.)
MA: (stifling a yawn): Oh, yeah, honkey? Can’t quite recall jest how many times I both whupped the ass offa mah opponent while SIMON-taneously and at the same time, Ah commentated on the bouts.
To conclude with three quotes which came to the mind (?) of this listener of the No-show Nolan Show: two from the real Big Mon, aka, The Great Shakes:
Hamlet: ‘Though it makes the unskillful
Laugh, cannot but make the judicious grieve, the censure
Of the which one must in your allowance
O’erweigh a whole theatre of others’.
Mention of hamlets allows one to segue quite seamlessly to the next quote, this one from The Merchant of Enniskillen:
‘That light we see burning in my hall
How far the candle throws its beams!
So shines a good deed in a naughty world.’
That quote was also prompted by your reference to ‘deeds’, EB, as, indeed, was the third quote, one of the great ones from Wee Mon, aka, the Anonymous Leprechaun / An Leipreachan Gan Ainm:
‘Molann an saothar an saothrai’ / ‘The work praises the worker’.
PS: As Eamonn Andrews, CBE, has, sadly, passed on to the great Soup Kitchen in the Sky for Stoops, Paratroops, and other In-group Dupes, there is an obvious vacancy for those who are inclined to walk backwards, if not for Christmas, then for New Year, Birthdays and other Dead Letter Days on the Loyal Calendar.
A vacancy specifically for one name of Eamonn and involved in the Consensus End of the Communications industry.
Jude, you made the most important point of all. You let them know that we are not all self glorifying, crawling buffoons that crave the oxygen of publicity. Is Mr McCarthy still a councillor?
Jude you really did get thumped you sounded really bitter and twisted stay off the radio!
Ah no, neill – you know you really love me – no point denying it…
Look on the bright side Jude, you sounded like a spritely young whippersnapper compared to Pat for whom I was concerned was going to croak before the end of the call.
Thank you, Jessica. I think I love you…
The sad thing is Jude you are an intelligent man but that doesn’t come across on radio you ramble on to much keep to simple points keep it sort and be polite. The problem you had today was that you had no generosity of spirit it was mean spirited to have a go at the SDLP man and the campaign to convince people that you are fair minded suffered a major set back today I’m only saying this in a loving caring way!
Ha ha ha , neill – I’m so glad you feel my pain…Funny, I thought I was the one that kept to simple points while others attacked me as an individual (‘he’s always on’ from George, e.g. – this from a man on practically every day – go figger). I’m not sure what generosity of spirit would have looked like in the debate. Several times I made it clear that Pat and AP were entitled to take or not take British honours, it was their decision and no one else’s, but if Enda was asking me my opinion, here it is. Would it have been more generous-spirited of me if I’ve said ‘I think it’s a really good thing for Irish people to receive honours from the British queen, especially if they are nationalists’?
Jude, when Neill or any other Unionist says “show generosity of spirit” it basically means drop your own opinion and agree with Neill or keep your mouth shut. Of course, this “generosity of spirit” is very rarely (if ever) shown by Unionist politicians. Keep an eye on the Belfast Council meeting tonight when there’s a vote on a joint reception for the NI and ROI teams, we’ll be seeing an example of Unionist “generosity of spirit” on display.
I have nothing against Neill, I actually think he’s a bit funny but a strange individual, I just feel he needs a guiding hand.
“you sounded really bitter and twisted stay off the radio!”
Now, now, Neill, its a new year, don’t be displaying the same old hypocrisy!
So you have a problem with facts so who would have guessed?
“So you have a problem with facts so who would have guessed?”
Ah, well done Neill, you just exposed Unionisms problem. What you said was very far from a “fact”, it was simply your opinion, one which I disagreed with. Can you tell the difference between a fact and an opinion? stupid question really, actually wondering why I’m asking it….Unionism is notorious for regarding its opinion as a “fact”. My favourite has got to be: King Billy fought for “civil and religious liberty for all” at the good old Boyne in 1690. I guess all those historians who documented the penal laws against Catholics must be IRA men and made it all up!……#UnionismsLogic
Judn ,it’s a good job you managed to get in that denial about “bombing primary schools” before your ordeal ended or we could have been sending our posts to Jude Collins@ Antrim custody suite!
the royal pardons torpedo that.
So if you were in a cell, Billy, and QE2 opened the door, you’d say ‘Nah, I’m staying put, can’t go cos you opened it’? You must be kidding…
The SDLP is supposed to be a nationalist party.
That should mean that they are in favour of Ireland as a nation.
And if you’re a nation you don’t owe allegiance to any other country or its leader.
Acceptance of a supposed honour (which England will not give to any foreigner) implies your acceptance of England as ‘your’ country.
So surely if you’re an Irish nationalist you cannot accept that you’re a subject of another country.
And I say ‘subject’ as you cannot be a citizen of a monarchy!
If Pat McCarthy (or Tom Kelly) haven’t the wit to recognise this dichotomy, then there’s not much hope for them, and the Brits are welcome to them.
“The SDLP is supposed to be a nationalist party.”
They are a nationalist party Sherdy, first they were Irish nationalist, then Post nationalist, and now they wish to be British nationalists
An Irish unionist is after all a British nationalist wannabe
Well stated jessica, they have strayed far from their origins
There were a couple of sweeping statements,
“You have annoyed a lot of listeners…”
The opinions of a “couple” of callers hardly meets the criteria for an evidence based conclusion.
Then there was,
“…you live in the past…”
Please confirm if you have marched in military formation to your place of worship with accompanying bands, military and police personnel in full riot gear, in the past or that you intend to do so in the future.
Of all the recipients of awards mentioned, Roger Casement, received his award for investigations into Human Rights abuses in Peru.
It would have been interesting to debate the concept of the divine right of a monarch to rule. I suspect that rule was conceived by…a man, much in the same way another man decided he would become head of a church.
Wow, not the first time (and I’m sure it wont be the last) that an ambush of a republican minded individual (that being our own dear Jude) was done on the Nolan show, I think that was like 7 individual Unionists (including Pat McCarthy) against just poor Jude. Where was the balance? where is the callers with an opinion that shares Judes point of view? No where to be seen…..well, on this occasion, heard…..
One thing that struck me about that ambush (because it wasn’t really a debate) was how much Pat McCarthy sounded like a Unionist politician, that’s how he came across to me, there was a nasty streak to his talk, especially when he was talking to Jude. Is Pat sure he wouldn’t be more comfortable in the DUP or the UUP? What Jude should’ve asked Pat was: “Pat, are you opposed to British Imperialism, both past and present?”. If he is against British Imperialism, then why is he accepting a “Honour” associated with it? How can a supposedly Irish nationalist/republican ever accept an MBE or any British honour associated with the British Empire/Crown? Its simply incompatible, especially if that person is in a nationalist political party…..or so they tell us…..
The truth is Sinn Fein will be very happy about Pat McCarthy accepting this MBE, it will show the nationalist/republican electorate that the SDLP are not (and maybe never were) a nationalist party and I do honestly see Sinn Fein gaining votes due to this in the Assembly Election. When you have the UDA urging support for the SDLP, when you have SDLP members becoming Lords and accepting MBE’s, when you have SDLP leaders (Margaret Ritchie) wearing poppies, etc you know that something is seriously wrong there….personally, I’m hoping more SDLP politicians accept MBE/CBE’s and wear poppies, that way they will be non existent in 5 years time lol
By the way, as I mentioned on another comment on another topic page (I don’t know if Jude has approved it yet) where I said at the time I hadn’t listened to Jude on Nolan yet but predicted that “George from the Shankill” and “Alex, an ex RUC man, from Lisburn” will be on the show, it turns out I was correct! these two boyo’s are never bloody off that radio show and they were even on today, George from the Shankill showing great tolerance by saying its people like Jude that are “holding everyone back” and need removed or something I think he said. Of course this is the same George that sees no wrong in anti-Catholic, Orange parades marching in a circle outside a Catholic chapel playing sectarian tunes…..I really do think Stephen Nolan has George and Alex on stand by, I wonder why…..
You did well Jude, its not easy being shouted down and trying to get your point across, you certainly weren’t in a fair or balanced debate.
Well said Ryan. Of course people are entitled to do whatever they want. But, to call yourself an Irish nationalist and at the same time be happy to be associated with the British Empire – an empire soaked in the blood of the Irish and many other races, is just absurd. It would be like an equality activist accepting an honour from the KKK or a communist accepting an honour from Hitler. Do it by all means if you wish but it makes you look like a complete gombeen! Mind you, listening to the bould Pat there yesterday for the first time, I’d have to say that he didn’t come across as the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Hi Jude,
I didn’t get listening to the show but you probably expected to meet the lynch mob! You probably know the dynamics of those “shock jock” shows.
1. you get someone on the show who challenges the preconceived ideas or previously accepted dogma.
2. You load the panel with proponents of the alternative viewpoints.
3. You do not allow the guest speaker to respond to each time he or she is challenged.
4. You turn down the volume slightly on the Mike of the individual (soon to be victim).
5. Lastly as Montgomery Burns would say to Smitthers in the Simpsons “release the hounds” as the slavering pack of carefully filtered angry callers are eventually released to savage the whimpering victim into eventual silence.
Fair play to you for understanding “George from the Shankhill” he speaks far to fast for me to keep up!
Listening to the play back of the show it struck one how you will have appreciated, Esteemed Blogmeister just how Jim Bowie must have felt in the GPalamO in 1916 even as the Bash Street Gang of the British Empah were laddering their way up to break through his window.
The Gang Up ratio, in fairness, and in the studio too, one felt, was a tad unfair. Not least from the BBC which prides itself on evenhandedness, that sorta thingy. One soon lost track of the numbers emerging from the Blue Corner: was it 2, 3, 4 or 5? While you were the first and last man standing in the Green Corner.
5-1.
That was a truly outrageous breach of the impartiality which must lie at the very core of all civilized debate, oops, conversation.
25-1.
Now, that would have been a far fairer ratio on radio if the Blue Corner was to have even a reasonable chance of going the distance, much less snatch a split decision itself.
For whatever reason, this listener kept being reminded of an exchange between two former dabblers in the sock exchange: in the Blue Corner, as it were, Eamonn Andrews, CBE, while in the Green Corner, as it might have been, Muhammad Ali (-).
EA: You know, Muhammad, when I was younger and in my boxing prime, I once commentated on the bout before mine in our National Stadium, before dashing down from the commentary box to box in – and win! – the following bout.
(He did not quite use the phrase ‘divesting myself of my street clothes, Superman-wise’ but there was no need to: his very intonation dripped of the S-word. CBE’s can do funny things to the obe-sequious ex-Irishman. The title he won on that occasion, btw, was, erm, the Irish junior middleweight crown of 1944.)
MA: (stifling a yawn): Oh, yeah, honkey? Can’t quite recall jest how many times I both whupped the ass offa mah opponent while SIMON-taneously and at the same time, Ah commentated on the bouts.
To conclude with three quotes which came to the mind (?) of this listener of the No-show Nolan Show: two from the real Big Mon, aka, The Great Shakes:
Hamlet: ‘Though it makes the unskillful
Laugh, cannot but make the judicious grieve, the censure
Of the which one must in your allowance
O’erweigh a whole theatre of others’.
Mention of hamlets allows one to segue quite seamlessly to the next quote, this one from The Merchant of Enniskillen:
‘That light we see burning in my hall
How far the candle throws its beams!
So shines a good deed in a naughty world.’
That quote was also prompted by your reference to ‘deeds’, EB, as, indeed, was the third quote, one of the great ones from Wee Mon, aka, the Anonymous Leprechaun / An Leipreachan Gan Ainm:
‘Molann an saothar an saothrai’ / ‘The work praises the worker’.
PS: As Eamonn Andrews, CBE, has, sadly, passed on to the great Soup Kitchen in the Sky for Stoops, Paratroops, and other In-group Dupes, there is an obvious vacancy for those who are inclined to walk backwards, if not for Christmas, then for New Year, Birthdays and other Dead Letter Days on the Loyal Calendar.
A vacancy specifically for one name of Eamonn and involved in the Consensus End of the Communications industry.
Moltai, einne/ Nominations, anyone?
Jude, you made the most important point of all. You let them know that we are not all self glorifying, crawling buffoons that crave the oxygen of publicity. Is Mr McCarthy still a councillor?
Eh?