Well, we all knew it’s better to travel hopefully than to arrive. Those of us who were looking for a scintillating debate on RTÉ last night between the leaders of the four main political parties probably had a better time reading the various tweets than watching and listening to the speakers. (Sudden thought: why didn’t they have a crawl-line of live tweets along the bottom of the screen throughout the debate? It would have added massive colour if not insight to the night.)
So how did they do? I see one of the morning papers has scored them out of 5 under a number of headings – Content, Charisma and a third that was so good, I can’t recall what it was. Anyway, let’s look at the performance, and then try a helicopter look at the whole affair.
Enda Kenny. An Taoiseach was a cross between statesman and tired tailor’s dummy. As I’ve said before, he has a habit of looking at his questioner sideways, which is probably meant to convey informed scepticism but usually looks as though he’s got a crick in his neck. He got spotlighted on the appointment of John McNulty to the Irish Museum of Modern Art and looked uncomfortable. But in general he delivered the usual line about keeping the recovery going and being concerned to see everyone benefiting from it. Who could argue with that? Score: 7.5/10
Michel Martin: Many commentators think Mr Martin could argue with it, and anything else, he’s such a polished public speaker. I don’t get that. To me he sounds like a Corkman talking very fast: you admire the words-per-second work-rate, you admire the animation, but there’s a satellite lag as you try to figure the point he was making in the last sentence as he hurries on to a new one. He had to cope with being depicted as the driver of the bus (he wasn’t, he was just part of the back-up to the driver) which went over the cliff in 2008. He was clear on the misdeeds of the coalition government, but didn’t have quite the same freshness and success as shown in the previous debate. Score : 8.0/10.
Joan Burton. After the debate, the Spin Room people (Aren’t they shameless, by the way – come in here and listen to some people, each spinning their own shape on the debate) – the Spin Room people were generally agreed that Joan Burton did a lot better this time than last. She did start from a low base but search though I might, my overall impression was of a woman who’d been in government for five years, had made a bags of it, and was now big on plans for the future. Broken promises? It wasn’t our fault – we tried but that crowd of nutters in Fine Gael wouldn’t let us do good. Score: 6.5/10
Gerry Adams: A number of commentators said he sounded tired, and to a degree he did – but then all four leaders looked tired. He had his worst moments when he was forced to pause before framing a response, and on the occasion when he had to back-track to correct the detail of something he’d said. On the other hand, he did enjoy one of the most memorable moments of the debate, when he asked Miriam (like, he needed to?) if she was one of the people who’d be affected by the SF plan for seven cent extra tax on those earning over €100K. Interviewers hate to be asked questions, especially personal ones. In his final speech he also hammered the three-amigos line firmly into the national consciousness. 7.5/10
Footnote. The big criticism of Gerry Adams on these debates has been his mastery of detail – can he say how much better off a family of three living in Kildare with the mother suffering from asthma would be under his plans for the taxation system? The fact, as we all saw last night, is that Gerry can’t. He pauses and struggles to produce a response. And since we’ve all been taught to see detailed knowledge of the economy and plans for it – he gets a thumbs-down from commentators.
But is this really how we should judge political leadership ability? Think back: Churchill – ‘We will fight them on the beaches’ etc; JFK – ‘Ask not what your country’ etc; Martin Luther King – ‘I have a dream’ etc; Patrick Pearse – ‘The fools, the fools’, etc. None remembered for their mastery of economic minutiae.
We have been taught that real leadership can be spotted through ability to produce answers on the economy during a live TV debate with political opponents; but if we look back at undisputed civic and political leaders, it is for articulating general issues or making eloquent appeals that they are remembered, not how much is left in the family budget if the family spends €319 on commuting and €948 on child-care. f. This seems to me such a crucial notion – What makes a good leader? – that we really should re-examine the punch-and-judy of TV leaders’ debates asa central feature of elections. We won’t , of course, because leaders’ debates are such good craic; but we should.
Perhaps Mr Vincent Browne, the host of the People’s Debate has hit the nail on the head,
“Less entertaining has been how the media, which to a large extent sets the agenda, again, has done so to the tune of the well-heeled and the corporate studded boots.”
The well-heeled and corporate studded boots certainly put pressure on the floorboards during the RTÉ debate on 23 February 2016 given the sound of creaks from the floor. Perhaps the floor was reacting to the weight of items swept under the carpet?
here’s a sign in the sky for the election outcome!! https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2016/02/24/irish-general-election-sign-in-the-sky/
Shades of a red sky may still be seen over this part of the world. It is strange that some people wish to comment publicly on ‘Bobby Sands – Freedom Fighter’, published by O’Brien Press Dublin without first reading the contents. Some individuals are critical of the Arts Council funding allocated to the publication. This on a day that we learn that the Northern Ireland Events Company set up with government money to bring high profile events to a post-conflict Northern Ireland ran up a £1.6m deficit. The company was established in 1997, having received £18m in public funds, and has folded amid financial scandal. What did pre-conflict Northern Ireland look like? The author of publication provides a context:
“At the time this book is set, Catholics were second-class citizens with no influence in government, the police force was sectarian and Protestants dominated the Civil Service. The property franchise (which meant that only those who owned property could vote) rather than ‘one man, one vote’ weighted representation heavily in favour of the Protestant community, leaving unionists in control of all but two major councils and a disproportionate share of housing, employment benefits and school funding. The famous shipbuilders Harland and Wolff employed virtually no Catholics.”
In post-conflict Northern Ireland, it would appear that it is acceptable for representatives of a Housing Association to conduct business in an orange hall and doubts have been cast on funding for the A6.
A game of two Sandras last night, Esteemed Blogmeister.
First up came Sandra (sniff) Cahill, from the mealy Mayo mouth of Enda (sniff) Kenny.
Or, was that Sandra Caligula?
For next up came Sandra Bullock (nee Caligula) who was responsible for appointing Missy Dissy to the Irish Senate/ Seanad Eireann in the worst place.
And just as Mayo conjures up images of Mao, sweet and sours, slow boats , chop sticks, pig-tails, junks, males, one-child families, and tea for two trillion citizens, so also does S. Bullock magic up a vision of China Shops and the flailing with extreme awkwardness therein.
The creaking of the studio floor was, of course, the sound of her speaking voice which is soi-disant fluent in Swahili hitting the floor like so many porcelain plates, of the factory-reject variety.
-Uhuru !
Tread softly for you tread on my screams in smithereens. Which is the common advice voiced to those inclined to walk on egg-shells or other sensitive topics such as (gulp) female health issues: Repeal the Female-shaped Amendment !. Pregnant as it is with prejudice. No such restrictions apply to (gasp) mere male health issues .
And after Cassandra Bulloch in her fetching trouser suit took one gawk at the fetching trouser- suited Miriam the Moderator and saw there a fellow (sic) Dworkin Classy lass, she correctly forecasted an intervention-free ride from the Stateen station mastress. Thus, enabling her to lower her booming voice and zoom in on The Bearded One’s operation as distinct from operations.
And in, of all places, the Mayo Clinic.
Cue, a cute little ditty from Ms. Bulloch even as she trained her tanning lamp tones on the mortal Shinner and issued forth with her ultraviolet voice which radiated womanly warmth :
-Come out, for I’m a Black and Tan
Come out and fight me like a man;
Show your wife how you never won medals in Flanders
Tell her how the IRA never made me run like hell away
From the green and lovely lanes of Killeshandra’.
Verdict:
Only one winner!
– The KIlleshandra Bulloch.
“Tread softly for you tread on my screams in smithereens” – Cheesh – Perkin, you should give a 5-second warning before lines like this. I could take a hernia, and me at the laffin’….
GRMMA, A Mhaistir Ionuin Blog.
PS There used to be a subject taught in Na Bunscoileanna Naisiunta/ Primary Schools south of the Black Sow’s Dyke called Mental Arithmetic. It was thus called, one suspects, because it used to drive at least one pupil in short pants just that; mental.
As any Oide Bunscoile / Primary Schoolteacher will attest, the quality of mental arithmetic, for whatever reason, dipped drastically once the first cuckoo of spring was heard. Coincidentally, those same liquid bird notes were the signal for the free-born children of the travelling people to take to the roads again.
Another coincidence is contained in the initials: T.A.L.
On one hand it can refer to Tiocfaidh Ar La while on the other it could equally refer to Thelma And Louise.
The latter two ladies, having taken to the roads, were driven so mental by the relentless stalking of their swinish pursuers that they eventually gathered the curious courage to do a Gadarene. Thus were they driven to drive their Oldsmobile over the edge and down into a bottomless canyon, unmeasurable by man..
One suspects that is exactly the kind of anti-climax which the well-wishers of the mortal Shinners in the media would like for Uncle Gerry to embrace. Even though he is not particularly noted for his grasp of Mental Arithmetic or for that matter, being a resident of, erm, Cloud Cuckoo Land. Nor has he shown any tendency to travel far from his current position.
It figures / tagann se le ciall.
Micheál Martin’s father was a bus driver. Were you refering to this? I remember seeing a programme on TG4 called Bealach na mBusanna which featured Micheál Martin reminiscing about travelling on his father’s bus. You can read more about it here:
http://www.macroom.ie/news/lee-valley-outlook-2013/213-lee-valley-outlook-jan-10-2013-v10e1
The point is that the rest are political pygmies compared to Adams.Outside the free state nobody has ever heard of them.Adams is known world wide and lest anyone forget he was the only man from the continent of Europe asked to take part in Mandelas honour guard at his funeral.Failure to recall an exact percentage is not as important as expressing a broad vision of where society should be heading.An English comedian once summed up the place of free state politicians on the world stage.He said “when I arrived here someone mentioned Dick Spring and I thought they were talking about some sort of contraceptive device”!
I thought Gerry was the better of the four.
I got the impression from the three Amigos and Miriam that their establishment is only interested in house buyers not renters. Social housing for ordinary people not rent rack landlords.
Anyway who the F— is Sandra Cahill?
Jim
I guess you have the same memory problems as Gerry.
Let me help.
Mairia Cahill was allegedly raped by a prominent IRA member. The rape was allegedly covered up by the republican movement despite her pleas for help from Gerry Adams.
That’s who the F… she is, and I’m not surprised Gerry wants to forget her.
That should be best not better by the way. Or worst perhaps!
Well done for putting in that key word ‘allegedly’, gio. Many people who discuss this matter tend to forget to do so.
RTE also misheard Enda Kenny Gio, they even issued a tweet and later deleted it, not before someone took a pic of it. Senator Cahill then took to twitter to say “What a dick” in reference to Gerry’s mistake. How Professional of her.
When I first watched the spotlight programme on Mairia Cahill’s story, I believed it, foolishly, without question. I was even one of the first to tweet Mairia my support and she tweeted back with me.
And then I did the wise thing and looked at the facts, debated with people of differing opinions on the topic and listened to EVERYONES version of the story, not just the headlines of the Irish Independent.
I came to the conclusion, at present, that I don’t believe Mairia’s story, I think there’s ALOT more to it. I’m not in any way accusing her of anything because I simply don’t have the evidence (and I frankly couldn’t be bothered) to back it up.
But one thing is definitely true about Mairia’s story and that is the media, especially in the South, were well prepared in using the story to constantly bash Sinn Fein and their political aspirations in the South. Anyone here who knows how the media/Government works knows something like that was going to pop up sooner or later. The same way Gerry Adams was arrested on the eve of the Council/EU elections then released without charge. It was all about damaging Sinn Fein, which obviously backfired given SF’s good performance in the EU/Council elections.
Will all the recent bad media around SF hammer their political aspirations in the General election? We’ll have to wait till Friday/Saturday to find out.
Ryan
Gerry clearly says: “who is Senator Cahill?”.Twice.
You are of course entitled to disbelieve her.I can only say I found her very believable as apparently did Gerry and I think Martin McGuinness.
It was a bit of a gaffe,though at this stage probably not too significant.
I just thin Jim above was being a bit dismissive and ignorant with his comment:
“who the F… is Sandra Cahill”
every bit as nasty as the old “who the F… is Jimmy Sands?” joke.
Are you comparing Senator Cahill to Bobby Sands, gio? Just checking…
Jude
No I’m comparing the remark by Jim above to the old joke.
Both are crass in my view.
Gerry Adams may have his reasons distancing himself from being a member of the IRA, one being, it would open a can of worms of more questions eg what was your position in the IRA;where you involved in this or that etc. Nobody seriously believes that those who scoff his denials would leave it at that if he admitted membership do they? So despite how incredulous his denials may seem there may be some reasoning to them. However Maria Cahill has openly stated that she ‘doesn’t think she is a republican’ anymore. Cynics would say she uttered these comments to pave the way for doors to be opened for her in the free state. A blind man can see which set of denials are more cynical and ludicrous……..indeed desperate.
“Gerry Adams may have his reasons distancing himself from being a member of the IRA”
I wouldn’t mind if they put a tiny fraction of the effort asking about the murders, bombings, terrorist acts and cover up of child ex abuse and protection of abusers that the british state is guilty off.
To ignore this and pursue Gerry Adams is disgusting, what does it say about how the south feels about the value of irish citizens in the north, or even those killed in the south by the british.
I feel the southern state and its media have treated citizens in Ireland absolutely appallingly.
Happy to take our money for a passport, but don’t go expecting to be treated as a valued citizen of Ireland. Just like they turned a blind eye to the abuse in the laundries, they turn a blind eye to state terrorism a few miles north of the border.
Sure who cares about the riff raff up north. Just another bunch of whingers
Hi Bruno,
Allegedly Maria Cahill wrote a couple of heartfelt letters of thanks to one of the people she alleges subjected her to a kangaroo court. She even invited the same woman up to hers for cups of tea. Strange don’t you think?
Cahill is attempting to make a career out of criticising Republicans. Considering that there’s already so many of them I doubt Gerry spends too much time worrying about Miss Cahill.
I hear that in a tweet of hers that Senator Cahill called Adams a “dick”. Could you imagine the uproar if Adams called Cahill a ‘c#nt’?
I hope she lets go of the bitterness and hatred. It can’t be healthy for her.
“Cahill is attempting to make a career out of criticising Republicans. Considering that there’s already so many of them I doubt Gerry spends too much time worrying about Miss Cahill. ”
It didn’t do her career any harm, just another crony given public money to suit Fine Gael and Labours propaganda agenda.
Patrick
I don’t think her letter in any way makes the rest of what she says in any way less believable. She looked to a woman she thought was sympathetic for help.
In the end she got none.
Her performance as a politician has no relevance to what happened back then and the fact is Gerry not knowing her name looks bad on top of other recent shaky performances.
Gio,
You are perfectly entitled to find her believable if you wish. In all fairness though there are so many contradictions in her story that I find her difficult to believe on some things.
For one she wrote a number of letters to the IRA. In one such letter she complained about a previous letter not being replied to and how she believed the intention of the IRA to be “honourable”. Do you really believe that the IRA intervened in the matter against her will? Do you allow for the possibility that considering her background at the time that she asked them to intervene? We know that she was anti RUC at the time. We know of her involvement in the RNU, a dissident Republican, anti police organisation. We know of her connections to the IRA via her uncle.
She invited one of those she said forced her against her will into a kangaroo court to hers for cups of tea. Was so sincere in her letter offering the warmest of thanks and now she expects us to believe she was subjected to a brutal ordeal at the hands of this person and a few more.
I don’t know exactly what happened with her. I suspect there is some truth in there mixed in with a whole load of lies. If she was raped I’d want her to get justice. In my honest opinion however it’s not justice that she’s after. She is on a different type of crusade altogether. Her mission is to throw as much dirt at the Republican movement and hope as much sticks. For evidence read any of her articles since she came to the publics attention. Her reward? A seat in the Seanad.
I suspect you know that much of what she says lacks in credibility, but your dislike of the Republican movement won’t allow you to admit it. Try and be better than that Gio 🙂
“In the end she got none.”
That’s a lie.
She was advised to go to the police and I believe did so.
She decided not to pursue the claims for her own reasons only.
She isn’t a politician, she is an appointed crony given a public position and pay grade she doesn’t deserve just for political ammunition.
That is the reality. I hope Labour are proud of their senators comments.
Gerry.Adams.was.very.good.jude.
He.was.very.good.at.times,less.good.at.others…
I agree Jude.
I have the utmost respect for Gerry Adams and would love to see dramatic change Ireland.
But I did feel nervous at times and could not help but feel that Mary Lou could have done a far better job.
There is a growing appetite for change in Ireland away from the civil war parties, it is up to Sinn Fein as the only true all island republican party to convince the electorate that they can deliver the policies to make Ireland better.
I hope I am wrong, but I cannot help but feel that Mary Lou not being there might be the difference between 18 seats and 28.
On the other hand, I think there were plenty of positives from Gerry seeing it through.
It was clear RTE made a deliberate effort to be fair to Sinn Fein, obviously to counter the growing obviousness of the attacks which people no longer pay any heed to and are tired off.
Even Miriam did a decent job in spite of the slipping in a slur attack libelling Danny Morrison. Hard to imagine that she wasn’t told in clear terms not to be seen to be biased against Sinn Fein. Lets hope it continues.
Perhaps the media as well as the state are seeing they cannot get away with corruption and negative control over the media and the people will make a point on this to FG on Friday.
Enda got one thing right, voting for his party will mean more of the same and will keep the recovery going in the same direction, rewarding corporates over citizens.
If FG do get in, they will not be able to form a lasting government and it will be short lived. As Gerry Adams said, a peaceful revolution is coming, there will be no stable right wing government in 2016 and opposition will be on the streets as well as in the Dail.
It was a good debate but I think the previous debate with more candidates hosted by Claire Byrne was better and more interesting.
Enda Kenny came across the same as he did in previous debates: like a 1930’s bank manager, the kind who considers counting pennies to be a great way of spending his Saturday nights whilst the rest us like to have a beer out with friends or watch something decent on TV. Enda just continued with his usual line of “The economy is recovering, lets keep it going”, etc etc. I actually think last night was his weakness performance.
Micheal Martin was attacked many times on the fact not only was Fianna Fail responsible for the mess in the first place but he was actually part of the government that made the mess too. I think this was Micheal’s weakest performance of the 3 debates, he did very well on the first debate and then did poor in the second and then did worse last night. Miriam and Gerry casting up Fianna Fail’s sins put Micheal on the spot.
Last night was Joan’s best performance by far compared to previous debates but it’s not going to make much difference, we all know Labour is heading for a crash like Fianna Fail did in 2011. Joan is basically fighting a battle that has for a very long time been lost for Labour. I think its all been about damage limitation for Labour. One way or another poor Joan will be exiting the Dail and the Labour leadership. But hey, she still has a nice chunky pension to look forward to. Only politicians (and Bankers) have the ability to gain massive amounts of money for doing a terrible job and for breaking promises. We reward politicians/bankers for their lies and failures whilst in the likes of Communist China, the Soviet Union and even Nazi Germany they would face a firing squad. Extreme? maybe but some would argue its Justice.
Gerry Adams, whom I was certainly supporting in these debates, was pretty much the same in all of them. Gerry last night had to pause to remember his figures when it came to hospitals (if I remember correctly) and he got mixed up when it came to figures on other topics. Like most people, Gerry isn’t a mathematician and a lot of people admit their hatred and fear of maths. Gerry is obviously one of these people. I don’t know whether its connected with age (we don’t get any younger) but Gerry isn’t as sharp as he was in 1994 when he battered Gay Byrne and the 5 Goons on the Late Late Ambush. In saying that Gerry did very well in everything else, he reminded the viewers of their opportunity to get rid of FG/LAB/FF, he reminded viewers of the facts when it came to hospitals and the homeless and who is responsible for these failures. The most memorable moment with Gerry, and definitely the most memorable of the night, was when Gerry asked Miriam if she earned over 100,000 euro and if she would be effected by SF’s policies. Miriam looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights lol
Overall Gerry did well in all 3 debates, he could’ve did better and would’ve came across better if he had not have got mixed up on the figures but he still delivered hammering blows to all three, Micheal, Joan and Enda. He genuinely misheard when Enda was speaking about Senator Cahill, whom Gerry (and RTE) mistook for “Sandra Cahill”. Mairia Cahill took to twitter to say “What a dick…” about Gerry’s confusion. Yup, very professional conduct from a senator. Well done Mairia.
Who won the debate last night? I don’t really think any of them did but if I had to put down someone’s name I would say Gerry Adams won. Joan certainly didn’t win and nor did Enda. This was Micheal’s worse performance out of the 3 debates, Fianna Fail being responsible for the mess being repeatedly referred to. So I give Gerry 1st place as winner.
Well that’s the debates over and they were certainly interesting and I wish we had more televised debates like this from political leaders instead of just at election time every 5 years (why not have 1 every 6 months? both in the North and South and even all political leaders together? SF, DUP, FF, FG, UUP, etc). I think SF will have a very good election, anything over 25 TD’s is will be a great outcome but the magic number is 30 or more TD’s, if that were to happen that would be fantastic. I think FF will make a comeback but will be level with SF in terms of number of TD’s. FG and Labour are obviously going to lose TD’s. None the less it should be very interesting to see by Friday/Saturday.
(PS: Miriam last night, as I’m sure everyone noticed, said that Danny Morrison was convicted of “kidnapping”, a conviction that was overturned. I don’t know what Danny is planning to do but I know if I was him I would be taking legal action against Miriam and RTE)
“I think SF will have a very good election, anything over 25 TD’s is will be a great outcome but the magic number is 30 or more TD’s,”
Ryan, I don’t think that was the strategy but I love your optimism.
They simply did not field enough candidates to achieve those figures and it would be an absolutely unbelievable achievement if they did.
If FG cannot maintain a stable government and there is another election in a few months, perhaps they will field additional candidates.
They certainly will in the next election after another spell in opposition and those figures will be the target then.
Fine Gael have introduced a clear class division in Ireland, rewarding the wealthy mr crawfords at the expense of a majority of Dublin in particular.
Far left policies are unlikely to get sufficient support but they will highlight this class difference and that alternative options are available for the first time.
Fine Gael will be punished in Dublin but don’t underestimate the loyalty to the civil war parties throughout Ireland.
They talk of tribalism in the north and voting down political lines over policies. It is no different in the south.
If the negative media attacks are over and Sinn Fein have faced down the disgusting media attitudes and we are down to real economics and policy based proper politics, then this campaign will already have been a major success which could not have happened without Gerry Adams at the helm.
Look forward to Saturday to see the results, moreso than any northern election results.
The results will be more interesting than the campaign which was spoiled by the negative media coverage
Totally agree Jessica. I honestly think if SF break the 20 mark they will be doing well, especially in the face of the media onslaught. Hope that I am wrong.
With regards to the debate on Tuesday night I certainly did not pick up on what Kenny said, was it Sondra, Sandra?? However what I can say is that in the course of watching RTE yesterday I saw the clip repeated time and time again. The clip showing Kenny unable to justify his tax policy, (family earning E40,000 gains E2000 while same family on E150000 gains E6000).
I think he was asked four times about the fairness of this and four times he whaffled. This of course was not repeated.
Another clip not repeated was the one showing him admitting to appointing McNulty, (cronyism at its worst) where he stumbled badly and really did look like a rabbit in the headlights. He later retracted this and Humphries took the rap.
With regards to Joan, could it really have got any worse, I suppose when you start from a position somewhere below the ground the only way is up.
I see there is now a moratorium on reporting on the election on RTE, however correct me if I am wrong but I do believe Tom Murphy is to be sentenced tomorrow. This of course will be extensively covered, with all the obvious links to SF. All good negative stuff. Strange that he was to be sentenced a fortnight ago but the date was moved to polling day. Call me a cynic but……………