I’ve been on at least one radio discussion with Drew Nelson and I liked him. Admittedly it was about twenty years ago and he wasn’t then the Grand Secretary of the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland, but I’m confident that such a grand title hasn’t changed him.
That’s why, if I was a civil servant and Drew was a civil servant in the same office, and if I (God forbid) suffered a death in the family, I’d make a point of hiding any Mass cards I might get, just in case Drew came over for a natter, the way they do in the civil service. I’d shove them in a drawer and bring them home in a plain brown envelope before reading them.
I’d also mask any interest I had in the Tyrone GAA football team. Say the Ulster Final was on and Tyrone had pulverized Donegal or Derry, I’d be well-rehearsed for Monday morning. “So, Jude” Drew might say. “How was your week-end?” I’d be ready: “Oh, you know. Fixed a leaky tap, shot some rats in the back garden, spot of hang-gliding. Nothing much, Drew”.
If one of my grandchildren were to have a Confirmation at the weekend, of course, I’d pass it off as, what, a family birthday probably. And on Ash Wednesday, as soon as I’d got the ashes on my forehead, I’d pull a sickie and head for home.
As for speaking Irish in the office – are you mad? That’d be ramming my culture down Drew’s throat. Is binn béal ina thost. Say no more.
Now I know what you’re going to counter with: this approach would involve me in a tissue of lies, oh what a tangled web we weave and the rest of it. Granted. But it would be a far, far better thing to tell a bunch of lies than make Drew or his co-religionists feel I was trying to intimidate them or turn down the office temperature.
Footnote: Research supports my belief that this would be the right path. What research? Well, I was out at the weekend with a couple of my mates, having a drink after the…. I mean having a drink, and they said they figure that’s the least I could, to show tact and respect. You can’t get much more rigorous research than that. And remember the massive restraint shown by Drew’s organisation every year…
If Drew was to say such things about let’s say Jewish culture he would be rightly condemned and asked to explain his anti Semitic behaviour by those brave truth seeking journalists on BBC ni and rte. However his comments are about Catholics so not worth questioning.
“However his comments are about Catholics so not worth questioning.”
Was he not questioned on the BBC this morning?
This is silly stuff from the OO, based on responses from only 25 people as I understand.
I am surprised there are even as many as that who would care about these things enough to complain.
these people if i should call them that hate taigs its born n bred into them it was the same before 69 nothings changed.all this cajoling them along will come to nothing they know the future facing them a walk on a remote beach in donegal if that.
I am 76 years old. I have tried to understand what the Orange Order, Fundamentalist Christians are about.Good Protestant Unionists I can understand and fair play to them. But the other crowd still baffle me!!!!
Don’t worry about it, Jim, they don’t even seem to understand themselves!
Billy,have you had a drink today?
no drink the day,why are you worried about my liver or scared of frightening the horses.
Dear …dear… how disconnected from reality have some of the natives of Norneverland become .I’m reminded of Middle Daughter when she was a tiny wee thing. She got the notion in her toddler-head that she didn’t much like the cut of her shadow’s jib….yep she was about two at the time and her shadow scared the bejasus out of her . ..so …..daddy had to spend much time in the summery Welsh , holiday sunshine of Portmeirion..stamping on the nasty blighter to make him go away . She grew out of that fear thankfully and is now an old married woman.
So we’re not allowed to talk about anything now…is that it? In case we might make our workmates feel uncomfortable in their wee mental bunkers. Most people try not to be intentionally offensive to anyone .They try to respect their personal space and be amenable . They try not to insult anyone or use foul or lewd language in their presence . There are laws in the workplace about a lot of things that might cause some poor wonk to lose his equilibrium…stuff about not wearing symbols and shirts that might be divisive. In a society like ours which is abrim with bigotry , racism and homophobia , you can see the point in some of this, but what is offensive about someone’s religious practices or them talking about a sports event or a concert they attended?
Now don’t get me wrong here …I can be offended if something is being shoved down my throat. There was a time when those of a religious bent who came hustling their wares around my door would possibly get an earful that stopped short of a rant. That was a long time ago . Now I just say ,”Thank you for taking the time to think of me “….and I quietly close the door while heading for the bin with the proffered leaflet in hand. You see, I’ve developed patience with other people’s foibles and passions. I have no need to try and change their opinions or dash their hopes.I just couldn’t be bovvered! That said , i still don’t much like being hassled when i’m out on the streets by megaphone wielding mullahs , priests or ministers.
So now it’s live and let live …just as long as they don’t want to get into my home and waste my own precious , private time waving their leaflets in my face and trying to get me into their personal heaven.As far as i’m concerned , if they want to climb to the top of a high greasy pole and meditate for forty years …well get on with it , I say.
It’s the same with Mass cards , weddings , funerals and the rest .I’ve no bother buying a mass card as a mark of respectful sympathy to some dear, departed friend or aquaintance and giving it to their family, nor have I any bother attending a marriage in a chapel, church, cathedral or town hall. i don’t happen to believe in god but it’s not all about me , is it?Everyone has a right to conduct their own life in whichever way they see fit and whichever way it works for them…just as long as no one is insulted .
There’s no accounting for paranoia , mind ….and I think that’s really what we’re digging at here.
Drew should really have a Harte, or be offered his p ’45. I cannot take his point and he should be kicked over the bar before the short whistle…the wee sliothar.
Never having had the pleasure of hearing the voice of Drew Nelson, Esteemed Blogmeister, one wonders what it actually sounds like.
Which of his two namesakes does he sound more like: Eddy or Willie? Is his voice closer to that of the classically trained Eddy, he of the rare vocal tone, or does it more resemble the warm, musical growl of Willie, with its unique nasal, off-centre phrasing ?.
Knowing me, knowing you, Drew probably turns out to have a voice which is all the world like that of Baby Face, i.e. which, one understands, was akin to a Tommy Gun, aka , The Chicago Typewriter, before it has shot its bolt. Baby Face, especially the vocal part thereof, was thought to have grown to resemble his favourite pet, more or less.
One voice which one is all TOO familiar with is that of Yob, oops, Bob Geldof who has been doing the rounds of the various radio studies south of the Black Sow’s Dyke this week, and then some. More. All as a part of a wind-up, oops, build up to the Geldofian Schlockomentary on the risible Rising – the first part of which is due to go out on RTE tonight.
Or rather, Sir Bob Geldof as he was deferentially introduced on the Ivan Yates Show this morning by the host on Newstalk FM . What followed was so reverential that during the course of the interview, Ivan Yates, the Free Southern Stateen’s most successful (gulp) bankrupt, was heard to shed the moniker about which he is so immodest.
Before our very ears Ivan ‘The Terrible’ Yates morphed into Ivan ‘The Thurible’ Yates.
Now, a thurible is a metal censer suspended from chains in which incense in burned during worship services. And to say the venerational scent of incense began to seep out of the wireless set is go dig deep into the realm of understatement.
Sir Bob was on to discuss Yeats with Yates; a case of the swopping of one obsession for another Bobsession; replacing Ethiopia for Yeatsiopia. His thesis being that it was the pen man W.B. rather than the gun men of the GPO who really founded ‘ this state of our’s, loike’.
-They were not MORTARS they were DEATH CULTISTS.
Noticeable turning up of the volume of the host’s excited thurible swinging from side to side.
A century on, Sir Bob’s inner centurion was back on the airwaves of Liffeyside to fight the good fight with Righteousness in one hand and General Maxwell’s Silver Hammer in the other.
-I grew up a choild of the Beatles.
Many years have passed since the Sixties and now Sir Bob is 64. Which chronological reality had at least one listener lip-syncing: send me a postcard, drop me a line, stating point of view. Indicate precisely what you mean to say, yours sincerely, Wasting Away.
-It wasn’t a revolution these messianic delusionists fomented: it was a PIETISTIC COUP D’ETAT !!!
At which point the swinging thurible of a clearly aroused Big Ivan all but left his tight handgrip and exited the mahogany wireless set on the sideboard. Almost.
Now, as everyone on Planet Ego knows, from Ethiopia all the way to Utopia, South Dakota, the sound of Sir Bob’s voice is nothing if not fruity. In that distinctive Dort-accented way of his and which he was the first to bring to a global attention, loike.
Yes, but which particular fruit?
The Perkin , having been blessed with a one-track, erm, mind, a shrill locomotive-like whistle began to sound in same. A tune of two train tracks allied to the one-word lyric: centurion.
Now whereas the Dort is the rail-service which is the favoured mode of transport for historians who like to distort, Foxrock Fannies who smell of mid-morning Port, barristers with briefcases full of torts, embarrasters with venereal warts and for all of whom Rugga is the only sport, the Subway System of Singapore is none of the above (with the possible exception of one).
What does set the S.S, of Singapore apart is the following sign: No Durians Allowed.
Durians?
It rhymes with Centurions. Or more to the point, a single Durian rhymes with a solitary Centurion. The durian is a fruit peculiar to South East Asia and is distinctive for its large size , strong odour and formidable thorn-covered husk. The durian emits a singular stink which is strong and penetrating even when the husk is intact.
The smell evokes reactions which range from intense disgust to even more intense disgust. It has been described by one noted proboscian as ‘being an unpietistic mix of raw onions, turpentine, rotten sewage and trouser coughs’.
On Newstalk FM, The durian-voiced centurion then became to smell what Alexander Graham Bell has long been to the telephone. When he got round to rounding on the name of the nemesis of his WBYT dream. The name of he who had not the slightest reluctance about fetching Yeats a right good kick up the bee-loud glade.
Indeed, one suspects if this nemesis was around today he would have been no slouch about directing his hobnailer in the deserved direction of the other side of Yates.
-That D.P. Mo-ran was a serious bit of bad news.
D.P. Mo-ran? Could Sir Bob have been, by Kevin, referring to D.P. Mor-an?
That would have been the wondrous D.P. Mor-an, author of The Philosophy of Irish Ireland who introduced such tasty condiments to the Irish mental cuisine as ‘shoneen, sourface and West Briton’. In the pages of The Leader, the journal he founded, D.P. Mor-an delighted in poking pun fun with his penetrating pen at the intellectual posturing of his contemporary for whom he had nothing but scorn: W.B. Yeats.
For old D.P. nobody represented more ‘the English mind in Ireland’ than the chancer in the velvet cravat.
The last representative of ‘the English mind in Ireland’ who danced upon the metaphorical grave of D.P. Moran over the airwaves was the censorious censor himself. He for whom the metal censers of incense still swing reverentially in the DOBland media: Lord Howth, aka Conor Craze O’Brain.
Curiously, the actual grave of D.P. is located in an old cemetery in Sutton, adjacent to Howth. It is not an easy grave to locate, a lot less so, in fact, than another grave which lies beneath a different moral highlground, , Ben Bulben.
A fact of life for those with bovver boots, itchy feet, no discernible musical talent , no inclination to pass by, horseman-style and who don’t dislike clichés.
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The OO are just peeved they are losing their power-base in the NI civil Service. Silencing catholic chit-chat is to smother the sound of it being eroded/erased.
With regards to your acquaintance Drew Nelson changing somewhat once he became the Grand Secretary of the Grand Orange Lodge – it’s all to do with knighting himself in a self-knighting ceremony. Tends to swell the ego.
“Look at me,” he’s saying, “I am better than you.”
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2013/09/01/royal-black-preceptory-appear-great-because-they-say-they-are/
The complaints of the 25 orange order members /supporters just seem like pure old fashioned sectarian hatred of all things Catholic. All too predictable, what next? A report that KKK members complain about black people.
I think even ordinary unionists are embarrassed by this thinly veiled report highlighting levels of sectarian hatred among the orange fringe.
“As for speaking Irish in the office – are you mad? That’d be ramming my culture down Drew’s throat.”
And Drew and his fellow Orange men would NEVER do that Jude, learn from his example! We should all be more like the Orange men and practice what we preach!….
“And remember the massive restraint shown by Drew’s organisation every year…”
Ah yes, the Order has a well known reputation for respecting sensitivities and have very kindly on numerous occasions cancelled parades or rerouted them out of the interests of improving community relations and keeping the peace…….
If only.
On a serious note, when you consider the trouble and lives lost due to the Orange Orders demands to parade where they want, it really puts things into perspective. For example If the Orange Order had have been more understanding of the sensitivities of the Catholic community on the Garvaghy Road and quietly rerouted the parade then so many people would be still alive today. The 3 Catholic Quinn children were burnt to death in their homes by the UVF because of Drumcree. Even one of the Pastors/Orange men at Drumcree said “it will be a hollow victory if we succeed in getting down that road now”. Another Orange man said “the road isn’t worth the lives of 3 children”.
That’s not to mention other murders carried out due to the Orange Order. Like the murder of Michael McGoldrick by the LVF. The same gunman then went on to murder Catholic girl Bernadette Martin, who was dating his Protestant friend. The gunman even knew Bernadette personally and allowed her and her boyfriend to stay in his house. That’s not to mention the numerous Catholic chapels burnt down by Loyalists, 9 were burnt down in 1 day alone. Hundreds of Catholic families were intimidated out of their homes by Loyalists, one street in Portadown which was mostly Catholic was abandoned by all its Catholic residents, such was the regular attacks and intimidation from Loyalism. At one point the RUC had to stay for days at each entrance to the street to prevent Loyalist attacks. One RUC officer was badly injured and died a few weeks later.
All this, all this mayhem, all because the Orange Order….wanted to parade down a street….
While I agree with Drew that sensitivities need to be respected in the work place, his stance is extremely hypocritical and the complaints by the Orange men, just 25 complaints out of thousands of workers, are extremely petty. I would understand if there was Catholic workers coming into work with IRA symbols or with a Celtic shirt or something but that wasn’t the case at all. The complaints were about Catholics having ashes on their foreheads for one day for Ash Wednesday. Would Orange men oppose Muslim women wearing a hijab or a Sikh wearing a turban, which is a religious requirement?
Another complaint was about people talking about GAA games. In my workplace we all talk about sports. The talk ranges from the GAA, to the Premiership, to Rugby, etc. I’m sure that goes on in ALL workplaces, including the civil service. A question that should’ve been asked to Drew is: How does he know those talking about the GAA were Catholic? They could’ve been Protestants or a mixture of both? Its just foolish to think that only Catholics watch or attend GAA games. I’ve met many Protestants who are so Pro-Sport they will watch anything, including the GAA.
My take on the Orange Order getting involved and actually wanting to meet with the Civil Service is they are trying to influence the employment of Catholics. Basically they want less Catholics and more Protestants hired. Old habits die hard, eh?
But what gives the Orange Order the right to think they represent all Protestants? They aren’t an elected or even a democratic organisation, they obviously aren’t inclusive either. Orange Order membership is just 1/3 of what it was in the 1960’s according to reports. There’s close to 900,000 Protestants in the North, I don’t have the figures but how many Orange men are there? I doubt its number is more than 10 or 20 thousand in all.
What are Drews views based on?Has the Orange carried out any proper research to back up these allegations?I’d have expected better from a solicitor who normally deals with hard facts.
He asked 25 members of the OO…
Jude
Not according to Drew.
He said they were not all members but were from the protestant community.
25 people with these attitudes is sad but thankfully it is a very small number.
I’ll take your word for it, gio. I heard part of the interview and I felt sure I heard Nolan say ‘These claims are based on a survey of 25 Orangemen”. Perhaps I misheard. I was busy greasing the cat’s boil at the time…
He was on the Nolan Show Argenta and I believe he said the Orange Order carried out the research over a 2 year period. As Stephen Nolan pointed out to him the research was carried out over a 2 year period and it produced just 25 complaints…..and most, if not all, of the complaints from Orange men were extremely petty.
The Order is basically making an issue where there isn’t one….
Speaking of the Nolan show, Loyalist community worker Jim Wilson was one of the few to phone in and agree with Drew (nearly all of the other callers just laughed at him). Jim made the ridiculous claim to Stephen, who was literally laughing, that he heard of someone being sent home from work because he was wearing Reebok socks, Reebok socks have a tiny Union flag at the end of the logo, its barely noticeable.
I don’t think Jim Wilson is a bad man, despite his previous membership of the Red Hand Commando. I think he may have good intentions and wants both communities to live in peace. He’s certainly more decent than some in the DUP, that’s for sure. But Jim needs to scale back on his crazy assertions, accept facts instead of hopelessly trying to dispute them and maybe think more before he speaks and think about how he comes across to people from both communities.
In my humble opinion , this Irish version of the KKK needs to be confronted and brought to task under international law. I say international law because British law is inadequate and partisan. Britain itself is a thinly veiled racist and sectarian state….openly anti-irish , pro-imperialist and consequently pro anything that clings to remnants of Empire. British law , under which we are all supposedly governed , is openly and brazenly flouted and disregarded by the DUP , UUP , OO and all other nefarious shades of Loyalism/Unionism. Under the guise of culture , my national flag is burned , religious symbols are desecrated , effigies of politicians and priests mocked and torched and the RUC/PSNI sheepishly ,utter ineffectual and mostly incoherent statements about it being somebody else’s responsibility. While all this is happening we have subscribers to this blog defending the indefensible ,casting aspersions and vilifying all and sundry…..as long as they’re not the said above. I have brought up and educated my children to be kind and generous of heart , to show tolerance and respect to all nationalities and religions but in this ,Unionist created , sectarian quagmire even God himself would be sorely tested !
one way Eolach would be to challenge the orange order conflict of interest.
We do not know if a Unionist MLA or an MP who is a member of a Loyal order is loyal first and foremost to the order, to the party he belongs to or the constituents.
if the orange order wants to exert political influence it should form its own party and stand for election like every other candidate.
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/unionists-threatening-and-fearmongering-orange-conflict-of-interest-or-power-play/