Queen’s University are hosting a discussion of the topic ‘Re-imagining Ireland’ on Tues 22 March, with the main speaker the Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness. They asked me to write a blog for their Mindfields blogsite, so here it is.
To come clean from the start: I don’t like the term ‘Re-imagining Ireland’. It suggests that I have been imagining Ireland already and now need to go back and repeat or revise the imagining. In addition, the term implicitly suggests that there’s worth in (re)imagining Ireland. Not necessarily. I could imagine an Ireland where Nelson McCausland had six toes on each foot. I could imagine an Ireland where Ruth Patterson was crowned Queen of Ireland. Neither activity, I suggest, would be worthwhile.
What might be worthwhile? if we articulated the kind of Ireland we would like to live in, and then made some suggestions that could move us along the road towards that kind of Ireland.
By definition, all Irish nationalists and republicans would like to live in a re-united Ireland. Most would also like that new state to be one where the wounds of the past have been healed and where Irishmen and Irishwomen work for fairness, equality and respect of others.
How might we get there? There are two major barriers, I believe, to the achievement of such an all-Ireland state.
The first barrier is the fact that many if not most people in the south of Ireland have no interest in a re-united Ireland. The second barrier is created by half the population in the north, who likewise have no interest in a re-united Ireland.
Maybe this is where the imagined thing comes in. Those who believe in a re-united, fairer Ireland need to sketch a picture of this better place so that those indifferent or opposed can be persuaded of its worth.
So what vision of a re-united Ireland do the people in the south need presented with? Well, it must be one where southern eyes see us in the north as their fellow- Irishmen and women.
The need for this was exemplified in the initial reaction of many in the south to the campaign of Mary McAleese to become Irish President. She was from ‘up there’, she really didn’t fit in down south, she was a ticking republican time-bomb. But none of these scare stories worked and President McAleese’s years in Áras An Uachtaráin helped remind those in the south that people north of the Black Sow’s Dyke are Irish too.
Similarly fruitful has been the move of Gerry Adams to County Louth and his presence in the Dail. After initial resentment that he should dare get elected in the south, Mr Adams and his party have provided a daily reminder to southern politicians that lip-service about the north is really not enough. Equally, Adams’s presence has ensured that social justice and an unbiased media must be essential components of a true republic.
In the north, examples of mutual fairness and respect need to be created, even if this sometimes happens in the teeth of opposition. The change in the flying of the Union flag over Belfast City Hall is one such instance. Caricatured as an act of provocation, it was in fact a modest insistence that a degree of fairness and respect should obtain in a city that has a non-unionist majority.
That said, no one should downplay or ignore the difficulties northern unionists have, in joining the movement towards equality and unity in Ireland. They find themselves not just having to let go of traditional domination; they must work in government with people they see, in some instances, as unreconstructed terrorists. But the republicans in government in the north are neither terrorists nor unreconstructed, They have in fact responded to the exhortations of those who for decades urged them to walk the peaceful and political road towards re-unification of their country. The fact that republicanism has transformed itself into a purely political force should be welcomed, not eyed with wariness and hostility, and certainly not name-called.
So what kind of Ireland, in the medium term, do I want to live in, if that’s what re-imagined means? A place where Irish people are free to work for a better future in a re-united Ireland. A place where Irish people choose the grown-up running of their own affairs rather than the arrested development of rule from London (or Berlin). A place where the economic benefits of a re-united Ireland have been spelt out factually and clearly. A place where the unionist people see the logic and benefits of their representatives constituting 20% of an Irish parliament rather than 2% of an English one. A place where northern unionists feel at home and welcome in Westport or Listowel or Cork or Dublin. A place, in short, where we can all contribute to making the island we all love a better and happier place.
Jude, Dia Duit ar maidin.
Your post today, I’m afraid, reminds me of the BBC and other loyalist media polls, aimed at making Irish in the six correspond to their Britishness, albeit, no part of Ireland is, was, nor shall ever be part of Britain, but thons an argument for another day!
The reason I say this is, and I’ve researched this previously, a great number of occupied Protestants should like our nation re-united, recall oul 1798 and 1916 rebellions and the leading role of these Irish Republican Protestants.
In light of this, let us reimagine our nation in fifteen years, slight Catholic voting majority, a number of our fellow country folk happy to be equally better off in a Republic where Unionist politicians would forever hold the balance of power in an Dail.
Well, we can dream.
Mark
Let’s see that research.
Show those loyalist media pollsters how it should be done!
giordanobruno, I’d love to still have my writings on this matter, research undertaken during my time in NE Ulster at the end of the last century, again, in very Unionist areas and, again,to large extent, with loyalist paramilitaries pre and post ceasefires.
Unfortunately, as once happened with my young son’s homework, the dog ate it.
I agree with you 100% Mark.
Mark
Interesting points but do you hold any theories as to why people of a Protestant background find nationalism and republicanism so unappealing in their current formats?
There are people of a Protestant background who would like to see a united Ireland (I know some) but they find Sinn Fein nauseatingly repellent and see the SDLP as a sort of middle class Catholic club.
Given that people in favour of re-unification only have to ‘win’ once and only need a small portion of the Protestant community to do so then why is there little or no effort to re-establish this Protestant republican community which as you pointed out was an established tradition?
This is where I believe that ‘nationalism’ is its own worst enemy as the shackles of nationalism won’t allow the dynamic game-changing measures to take place.
(BTW, a very similar argument can be said for Unionism wrt not wooing the Catholic vote, the very people upon whom the union depends on).
I agree AG, both sides do little to appeal to one another.
The majority of nationalists see unionism as unreformed bigots but who have the establishment behind them so prefer to keep their heads down and just get on with things.
Not only the establishment, but the media. As you mention with much less focus on the last sentence, there are two sides, yet the focus is on the repellence of republicans.
Perhaps that is where the crux of the problem lies.
Perhaps if the truth was out there about the true extent of british state involvement in the dirty war, perhaps there would be an opportunity to listen to one another and grow the good that exists on both sides.
For as long as the one side vilification continues with britain hiding the truth behind national security. there cannot be unification as the trust simply will never be there.
We would just be bringing these sectarian problems into the 26 counties which I would not want to see spread further into my country.
The north is a rotten sore but one we will have to live with until the truth comes out.
Am Ghobsmacht, as above, and despite the best efforts of unionist media to lead us along another path, there are people of the Protestant faith who are, and in some instances, have been for generations, of a Republican mind set.
There of course a majority of this tradition whom are pro-union, and shall always remain so, at least ’til the Anschluss where they will have to face the economic and political reality they shall be better off sharing the national territory.
Theory on such is probably best found in my great Grandfathers statement to his young Grandson in the ’40’s, in respect of Protestant opposition to re-unification, ‘It’s not the crown they’re interested in, it’s the half crown’!
For most people from the unionist tradition, bought off with free land and employment by the ascendancy post 1798, Sinn Féin are those who murdered them through our recent war, the stoops, or SDLP, do get quite a bit of support from people from this background, remember the Shankill Rd. support for Dr. Joe Hendron in ’92, electing this SDLP member to the British Dail to represent them, one point however is, once when working in east Belfast, way, way back, a local paramilitary told me he wished they had Sinn Féin councillors since they did things for their constituents. unlike the OUP/DUP, (I recall lengthy negotiation with Peter Robinson on local issues which he refused to assist working class constituents on), however, when the media persist on showing any Nationalist political party as anathema to your background, what choice do you have come polling day?
With the greatest respect to Jude but, blog’s such as this have a somewhat closed readership and influence, what has much broader appeal is BBC/UTV news in shaping opinion. Unless then we can spread the word, undertake equitable research showing the true feeling throughout the six county electorate towards re-unification,and, with this, attempt to change the feeling towards others whose tradition is here, rather than Scotland, we have a very difficult time in the coming years.
On Scotland, and I believe I was once the earliest to raise the prospect of there leaving Britain having profound effect on their namesakes here, when and if it soon leaves Britain, combined with a, seemingly, resurgent economy in the rest of Ireland, and the six counties, we have the opportunity to use an west-east argument to persuade these folk they are better off in a country which has some control over it’s future.
Again, it’s nice to dream.
Hi Jude,
Where is the mindflelds blogsite, would be interesting to see the comments.
Lets hope they can focus on positive thoughts and it doesn’t get bogged down in negative one sided acrimony over the conflict.
What’s the odds I wonder?
Here it is, jessica. Bain sult as…
Sinn Fein doing well in the southern elections has made me less interested in the northern elections.
Does anyone else feel similar?
I see positive change happening in the south and while I sense there is yet more positive changes to come, I would much prefer to look towards building a new Ireland centralised around Dublin and really, Stormont would probably be best closed down altogether.
I don’t see anything but bickering and immaturity in Stormont’s future.
I agree Jessica and I think I know why you, like me, are becoming more interested in the southern elections than the northern ones.
I think the main reason why is because the South is a normal, non sectarian society. There are very few areas in the South which are guaranteed to return a particular TD from a particular party. Everyone’s vote is up for grabs and can be won over. It doesn’t matter what religion a person is, its solely their policies that matter. It isn’t an “Orange vs Green” society like up North where election after election the result is basically the same for multiple decades, where the only acute interest is in areas where the demographics of Protestant and Catholic are roughly the same because everyone depressingly knows that most Protestants vote Unionist and most Catholics vote Republican, so which tribe will get the most numbers out to vote and snatch the seat is the hot topic on election day. This was the case in Fermanagh/South Tyrone and North Belfast last year.
The Souths General Election showed a healthy, democratic society at work. The same with the British General Election last year in Britain (with the obvious exception of NI).
Watching the Souths election just made it more obvious how much of a failed, sick, sectarian infected and diseased society the North has become thanks to Unionist politics. Its one of the consequences of partition.
“The Souths General Election showed a healthy, democratic society at work. The same with the British General Election last year in Britain (with the obvious exception of NI).”
You are absolutely right Ryan.
I spent some time in Glasgow at the time of the referendum and there was never any animosity.
Families may have been divided over their differences in opinion, but as a people they were always as one.
That is the type of Ireland I would like to see.
One were there is tolerance and respect for diverse opinions, races and nationalities, no more bigoted sectarian one side is right, my way or the highway attitudes.
Something different and exciting happened in 2016 and I would very much like to be part of it.
maybe if we exit should be mentioned in imagining a new ireland,
I agree with most of what you said there Jude.
The point where I would disagree is the part where you say most people in the South have no interest in a United Ireland.
True most people in the South don’t have a United Ireland at the top of their agenda, just like most people in the North don’t. Just like most people in Britain don’t have the topic of the UK leaving or staying in the EU at the top of their agenda. Just like most Unionists don’t have staying in the Union at the top of their agenda. It may not be at the top but you can be certain its definitely on their agenda somewhere.
Bread and Butter issues are always the Number 1 concern when it comes to the vast majority of people, that’s what is at the top of most peoples agenda. Though they may not admit it, even the most hardened Unionist would find themselves thinking twice if they learned that Irish Unity was economically better for them and their family.
The majority of the people in the South have been in support of Irish Unity for decades, even during the worst years of the troubles, if my sources are correct.
In a poll done by the Irish Times 64% of people in the South supported a United Ireland. Only 8% oppose a United Ireland. The rest don’t have an opinion.
56% of the people questioned said 32 counties of Ireland constitutes the Irish nation. While only 27% said only the 26 county state constituted the Irish nation, that’s a drop of 11% from a previous poll.
Are the majority of the South’s people so Pro Irish Unity that they are willing to join dissident Republicans in order to achieve a United Ireland? No but they don’t need to do that to achieve Irish Unity. Republicans in the North can basically depend on the South voting in favour of Irish Unity when a border poll does inevitably come along, especially with Sinn Fein a major political force in the Dail now, you may even see support for Irish Unity increasing.
Here’s my source: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/boost-for-a-united-ireland-support-in-new-poll-figures-from-irish-times-180974381-237756961.html
Ryan
Is that poll from 2012? It is hard to see the actual data on it.
The figure you mention of 64% seems in line with the figure from the recent RTE/BBC poll that found a result of 66% in favour within their lifetime.
Perhaps people think it is generally a good idea but they are not in any great rush to have us.
It seems a bit like
“Lord make me holy but not just yet.”
You’re not on your intrepid own, Esteemed Blogmeister, in your tepid enthusiasm for the this ‘Re-imagining Ireland ‘ thingy. And small wonder.
For it does, does it not, have all the iffy whiff of a coinage from the sniffy Liffeyside organ of record, The Unionist Times?
In fact it is right up there, or rather more, erm, anatomically correct, down there with its other great and grating coinage: CRAIC. One, of course, may be wrong, but the pong emitted from both of the green grassy slopes of the Boyne coinages does seem to have the same deleterious effect on the unaware olfactory nerves, i.e., that of sh/tting them down.
One line in particular gamboled out of todays’s blog:
-The first barrier is the fact that many if not most people in the South of Ireland have no interest in a re-united Ireland.
Which begs this question: where did it all go so pongfully wrong? Or to panhandle the same question in a slightly different way: where did it all go so right-wing?
After all is sad and dun, no other state on this lonely planet of earth got off to such a stirring start as the Free Southern Stateen. In cinematic terms, the Rising of 1916 was the equivalent of the Deadwood Stage when it came a-rolling on over the plains with the curtains flappin’ and the driver slappin’ the reins.
It was a beautiful sky, a wonderful day and an even more wonderful Doris Day. It was as if every wonderful LA had chuckied together.
Hope did indeed spring eternal that Eastertide as the Deadwood Stage kept on a-coming on over the crest not at all dissimilar to a homing pigeon with a hankering after its nest. Sadly, of course, the hopeful eternity in this historic instance did not reach much beyond a week.
For this was dangerous land, and so, there was no time for delay. As the Deadwood Stage soon discovered when it kept on a headin’ on over the hills: it was then that the Injun arrows became thicker than the porcupine quills. Courtesy of Big Chief Maxwell and his dreamboat squaw. Indeed, it was Helga (for it was she!) who more than any other did most to flatten Inis Ealga.
It was the Annals of the Four Masters which recorded the fact that one of the earliest names of Ireland during the time of the Fomorians and other Fat Boy Slims such as the Firbolgs was: Inis Ealga. Which is the Leprechaun for Island of Excellence. A most apt title for the Free Southern Stateen, which emerged, not.
But that is nothing that a little Spoonerism would not sort out. Borrowing a wooden spoon, say, from the IRFU, who reportedly have a warehouse full of same, a little tinkering with Inis Ealga would soon produce the not inappropriate : Inis Eagla. Which of course translates from the Leprechaun as: Island of Funk.
So, how did we end up, a hundred yawning years on, with ….Calamity Joan? How, indeed, did it all go so au-pair shaped ? The Deadwood Stage, it will be recalled, started its journey from the Windy City, a chic ago with Doris Day on board. How then, a full century later, is Dublin sur Liffey, still globally recognized as the city with THE best claim to the title of The Windy City? (c.f. Glennane Gang ).
Or, to frame the question in a more contemporary fashion:
-When exactly did Whip-crack away morph into Whip-CRAIC away ?
Some blame it on the bosa nova, others on – shur, who else? – Sharapova . All sorts of names get dragged into the equation unless one cracks the whip in time.
Perhaps the answer is to be found in a verse which occurs about three quarters way down (26 county style) the Deadwood Stage , when there is a sudden change of tempo, an abrupt alteration in tone:
-introducing Henry Miller, just as busy as a fizzy sarsaparilla.
Sound familiar? A little literary deconstruction may well be called for here. Miller may not just be a space filler but may even be freighted with a certain,erm, financial significance. Dough, after all, is what millers do, and do best. Consider the next line, to fill out a fuller portrait of the miller in q..
-Ain’t a showman, he’s smarter, operates the Golden Garter.
Hmm. GG. Seems to be a recurring motif here. Though of a different provenance, one hastens to add, an ENTIRELY different one. For Golden Garter can be fairly taken as a metaphor for Independent House (don’t ask). While the next line is not without significance:
-Where the cream of Deadwood City come to dine
The next line is potentially of even more significance:
-And I’m glad to say HE’S. A. VERY. GOOD. FRIEND. OF. MINE.
Now, while Tipperary may well be a long way from Dublin City, aka Deadwood City, the last verse is best sung in a Tipperary accent, preferably even of a North Riding variety. But if not, no matter. For indeed, there is a legendary rousing recording of ‘It’s a long way to Tipperary’ by the Russian Red Army Choir itself.
Speaking of newspapers, in the Soviet Union and during the comparatively relaxed and avuncular regime of Uncle Joe Stalin the paper known as Pravda was the conduit of the policy of the Communist Party. True, there was a phenomenon known as the Samizdat by which a tiny coterie of malcontents printed their own gross, misguided opinions on underground presses.
Just about enough copies of the stuff to circulate by hand to like-minded soreheads, which meant not a lot, merely a net circulation of mosquito proportions. Not nearly enough, if the truth were known, to service the urinals of the state bordered in its left flank by the Urals. Hence the real importance of Pravda ,which the noted linguist Gregory Campbell will tell you, means ‘Truth’ in Russian.
Indeed, it wasn’t till much, much later and with d’advent of d’Internet that this phenomenon finally came into its own. Or, if one prefers, the order went out: ‘Play it again, Samizdat’ . By which time there was a real need for it from genuine dissidents who believed in the, erm, continuity of ideas. (c.f. this current Down by the Blogside of Comrade Collins).
Nowhere is it more needed, indeed, than south of the Black Sow’s Dyke. For the reason why the majority of newspaper readers in the 26 c’s may find themselves less than keen on the abolition of the BSD well be down to the fact that the vast majority of newspapers are part and pass the parcel of the Golden Garter group.
Whose soundtrack, of course, is that of a continuous bing ! of a garter sting on the flabby thighs of fellow travelers of the mortal Shinners.
Can there be anyone left to be stunned to discover that the co-writer of ‘The Deadwood Stage’ was a fellow traveller of SF called (gulp) Sammy Fain ?
It is said that one pome begets another one:
-Hi, D. say where d’ya get them fancy clothes?
I know, off some fella’s laundry line.
Here goes;
A.. VERY. GOOD. FRIEND . OF. MINE.
One has all the street smarts of an artful Maori
The other the brawn of a boy from the Bowery
What is a Prav, Da?
Paper for a lav, Cha
Reams of which fell offa the back of a Lowry.
I had a think about this Jude, about what type of Ireland I would want to see.
After much consideration and while there may be things could be improved, overall I love my country and am very happy to be Irish.
In the end, I don’t really want anything other than to feel like I belong in my own country, that country being Ireland and not the UK by the way, which I not only have never felt part off, but do not ever want to be part off.