Since the election, there’s been much talk of the need for Dail reform. I’ve no doubt there are imperfections in the way the Dail operates, but I’m not sure those imperfections deny people their human rights. Still, Fianna Fail grabbed the notion of Dail reform and has been running in circles shouting that there must be radical change. Do you remember Fianna Fail talking about this prior to the election? Or, for that matter, talking about the water charges issue and being prominent in the various protest marches against water charges? No, me neither. If in fact Fianna Fail really wants to change something important, they could look to the justice system, not the legislative system.
I say that in part because I’ve recently been reading a book called Dissonant Voices. It’s edited by Conn Mac Gabhann and it consists of essays/articles by a whole range of outspoken clerics. If I tell you that the articles have titles such as ‘An Irish Liberation Theology’, ‘Faith and the Irish Diaspora’ and ‘Latin America: Irish Missionaries and Liberation Theology’, you’ll probably have an accurate sense of the book’s flavour. If I add that among the writers are such clerics as Fr Joe McVeigh, Fr Des Wilson and Fr Gerry McFlynn, you’ll be right in concluding that this is not a book that aims to buttress the establishment or the status quo.
One article I’ve found particularly interesting: ‘Ireland and the Theology of Human Rights’. It’s by Msgr Raymond Murray. Those among us of a certain age will remember Fr Murray who worked tirelessly and courageously with Fr Denis Faul to expose the brutality of British forces in the early days of the Troubles. He provides a vivid picture of those days, when there were many quick to denounce the violence of the IRA and virtually none to denounce the violence of the British forces. But it is the section sub-headed “The Corruption of Law” that is particularly relevant to today.
You remember how southern parties, particularly Fine Gael and Labour, argued the importance of having Special Criminal Courts? Put more bluntly, of having courts shorn of juries, such as that which tried and convicted Tom Murphy. Here’s what Msgr Murray has to say about such courts:
“Justice and truth can only thrive with courts that operate with juries. To retain non-jury courts for certain individuals leads to selectivity and the danger of prejudice…All traces of Diplock Courts must therefore be removed. Human rights and civil liberties in N Ireland should be restored in full and protected by safeguards of the ordinary criminal law”
“The state is the servant of its ciizens, not the master. Juries are seen as an important check against state power”.
How refreshing, to hear a voice speak out clearly and fearlessly against a system we’ve been assured is essential for the legal system. Msgr Murray doesn’t make suggestions as to how juries might be protected from intimidation: he simply states that the absence of a jury damages human rights and damages faith in the entire justice system. And he’s not just talking about the south’s ‘special’ courts – he’s talking about throughout Ireland north and south. Juryless courts are an affront to the rights we all value throughout Ireland; and it takes a man of Msgr Murray’s courage to speak this truth to power.
But alas, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael in the south are too busy right now, addressing the vital matter of Dail reform. And in the north? It’s time all parties who value the integrity of the justice system spoke out and echoed Msgr Murray’s courageous words.
It’s nearly 30 years since I did Jury Service – in Knightsbridge Crown Courts (in Hans Place,
where the Irish Plenipotentiaries stayed in 1921) just behind Harris. I was on 3 or 4 separate
trials (none of them with any political connections.)
I was extremely impressed by the seriousness with which most of the jurors took their duties and also by the razor sharp minds, and fairmindedness of the judges. I also thought that the police giving evidence were unconvincing as were prosecution witnesses, as were accused
when they gave evidence. In one case with four Irish in the dock, where all gave evidence,
one refused a Christian Bible but swore on the Torah. I believe, that like her Christian co-defendants, and the prosecution witness, she was lying. But we threw the prosecution case out of court.
One juryman, a skinhead who used racist language thought (rightly, in my opinion) the police were trying to frame a black defendant, and was as conscientious as any of the jurors and the man was acquitted.
The jury system in Ireland, though a gift from Britain, should not be abolished. The Special
Criminal Court should be abolished. Ireland is not now in a State of Emergency.
Well said, Donal…
It is a sign of the times when The View devotes a significant proportion of time to the fall out over the Irish election. George Hook opined about Sinn Féin’s “zombie politics”, darlin words, Joxer. A zombie is defined as a corpse said to be revived by withchcraft. Mr Hook blustered on without clarifying what he meant by the term. A disinterested observer, unlike Mr Hook, might question the legacy of Fine Gael politics to date. I suspect enough has been said and written about political corpses this week. It was evident that Mr Hook had no concerns about the role of Nama. The border does not appear to be a problem at times. He also demonstrated a lack of knowledge about policing in the north of Ireland. The man, like everyone else is entitled to his opinion, it was a pity that it was not an informed opinion. The art of politics is too serious to be left to politicians or sports commentators.
Well said Iolar, I thought the same. Hook left me feeling rather deflated.
This old dictum should be nailed to the door of every court in the land:
‘Justice must not only be done, but be seen to be done’.
If that was adhered to, we would have a much better country.
Raymond Murray might have renamed his article:
‘Ireland and the mythology of human rights’!
value the integrity of the justice system.
theres people being held 2 n 3yrs on remand then released lack of evidence they state[internment by the back door in other words]all parties fully support the justice system in the north.
OOPS! WHAT A TYPO! Hans Place is behind HARROD’S DEPARTMENT STORE.
HARRIS, on the other hand might define i) An ISLAND
ii) A very reliable TWEED
iii) A much less reliable WEED.
The 24 carat worth of your blogs, Esteemed Blogmeister, is there to be seen on a daily basis but today the worth reaches a high of 32 carat. Which is way above what keeping up with the average Dow Joneses normally entails. A pure gold-standard bullion of a bulletin.
As always, it gives as well as its ingot. Only more so.
The litany of priests you list are not exactly house-hold names down here in the Free Southern Stateen, where their estimable voices have been effectively silenced. This is not because they are priests of the RC persuasion. (Perish the very t. !).
For there are other, erm, silenced priests of the same R.C. persuasion whose profiles have, if anything, been raised and their platforms too ever since they were muzzled or put under a puzzling communications coinneal-bha.
(Coinneal-bha literally means ‘candle-quench’ in the Leprechaun, and Ex-communication in the Q’s English).
Thus, while the voices of such coinneal-bha clerics as Fearless Flannery and Dauntless Darcy are remorselessly invited to, erm, wax eloquent over the FSS airwaves, the voices of Murray, McVeigh, McFlynn and Wilson are told to be ina dtost/ keep their traps shut. No need for them to set their alarm clocks to take a call from the RTE flagship prog, Yawning Ireland.
Though there are some who might contend that this is actually a blessing which calls out to be enumerated and even counted. After all, F. Flannery and D. Darcy for instance are regularly namechecked in a non-derogatory way in the (gulp) non-sectarian ‘Rite and Reason’ column of The Unionist Times.
-Ooh, ahh, Up the R.A.R. !
Speaking of carats, the vegan Pat the Rabbit is much given to chomping that which he is relentlessly fed by the monolitihic media of the Free Southern Stateen. It fact it is the only item on his diet and a wormy diet at that.
(Or, plain Paddy, rather than Pat the Rabbit, as Enda the Ennui prefers to call Sean Citizen of the F S S. By which he presumably embraces Shauna Citizen ).
Speaking of ‘ina dtost’ (pronounced, in a dust) as recently as only last week the natural bonhomie of the bouncy Free Sothern Southern, sans exception , was quenched and plunged, both simultaneously and at the same time, into the deepest sorrow. An unofficial, if not provisional, three-day Period of National (sic) Mourning was observed, if not actually declared.
That was to mark the sad passing of (gulp) Father Jack Hackett. Who was, of course, a pillar of the iconic comedy show, Fr. Tedium. The Drink ! in his famous responsorial psalm of ‘F.! A. ! D. ! G. !’ is every bit as potent today as, say, to take a random example, Punch was in its day during the 19th Century.
This character, exquisitely crafted to expose its subtle depth in all its unfathomable complexity, takes its frightfully rightful place in a fabulous tradition of the Sow in the Sitting Room of Punch all the up to the contemporary Piebald Pony in the Lift of Roddy Doyle, Uber True blue Dub and indomitable wearer of the blue Chelsea gansey.
Fr. Tedium is, perhaps, the ultimate indication of how mature the Free Southern Stateen has become as it is THE medium.
Yes, the ultimate medium through which the likes of us hunger-strike disliking Mikes who dwell down here in the bankrupt Klondike and tolerant third reich south of the Black Sow’s Dyke, have learned to laugh at (gasp) ourselves. And not only that but to do so (courtesy of Channel 4-Lock) in front of a sophisticated audience on the (gasp) Mainland.
Or, au contraire, does it ?
Consider the following: it is a truth universally acknowledged, not least by the homogeneous hackitariat, that the lam into which the late, grating Fr Jack Hackett plunged his poon, was the prototype priest of the RC clergy.
But, was it?
Hmmm.
Consider some more.
The ac-tor who played the part of Fr. Jack Hack-ett did not lack in versatility. He also distinguished himself in the resplendent radio role of (sigh) ‘Gobnait O Lunasa’, the ultimate bogball boyo as, erm, re-imagined in Dortlond’s Blackrock, both porish and colloge.
The typical sketch found Gobnait feeding coins into the green antedeluvian hen-on-the-penny coin-operated phonebox.
-Hello ! Is dat you, Nu-ala? Dis is Guess Who !
Gobnait is the boyfriend of Nuala.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.
Hello ! Gobnait is not actually a goy’s name but a (gulp) gal’s name.
Which would seem, on a prima faces basis at least, to indicate that the distinguished ac-tor who played the part of Gobnait did not quite know his Erse from his drink-sodden Elbow. Which he so liked to bend when downing the creamy pint with its creamy, cold under the clerical collar as Fr Jack.
Now, if Gobnait the goy turns out to be actually a gal, does this mean, using the same logic, that Fr. Jack was actually, after all, a cleric of the (gasp) Church of Ireland persuasion ?
Not unlike Thomas ‘Slab’ Murphy the jury would appear to be out in the special case of the scabby but still revered Fr. Jack Hackett.
.msgr.Murray.was.a.priest.in.my.town.Cookstown.a.brave.and.good.man.jude.
He.Was.And.Is.That.Jim.
“Justice and truth can only thrive with courts that operate with juries.”
By thus standard justice and truth do not thrive in probably the majority of legal jurisdictions in the western world.
And do not thrive in our magistrates’ courts or civil courts.
“By thus standard justice and truth do not thrive in probably the majority of legal jurisdictions in the western world.
And do not thrive in our magistrates’ courts or civil courts.”
Oh I agree with you 100% there MT
Many innocent irish have been labelled terrorists and tried and convicted in british courts while british soldiers implicit or directly involved in the murder of men, women and children, have been deemed to have acted in good cause.
And where there is evidence that would lead to convictions, it is safely kept out of reach on grounds of national security.
No thriving here anyway.
Special Criminal Courts in the South will most likely be used, just like Diplock Courts in the North during the troubles, for the States agenda. In many cases in the North they are used as a form of internment without trial.
Was Thomas Murphy given a fair trial? Of course he wasn’t. Anyone who doesn’t have a trial by jury isn’t given a fair trial. That’s a violation of any persons basic human rights: a right to a fair trial by jury.
Apparently the USA has one of the worst legal systems in the World, that has been said by many people.
Conrad Black, a Canadian multi -millionaire and a member of the House of Lords (sworn in along with Margaret Thatcher) who made his money in the media business, was found guilty a few years ago in the USA of fraud. His lawyers, whom made tens of millions from his court case, said there was no way he would’ve been convicted of any fraud if he was trialled in the UK or Canada. Conrad himself said he’d have got a fairer trial in Paraguay or North Korea. According to Conrad 99% of US prosecution cases end in convictions. 48 million people in the USA have a criminal record. Black people are 10 times more likely to be in a US prison than White people. The US legal system consumes 10% of USA GDP (that may be roughly 1.6 Trillion dollars).
Ireland’s legal system may not be as bad as the US system but Special Criminal Courts will make it a lot more similar….
Here’s a video of Conrad Black.
“Anyone who doesn’t have a trial by jury isn’t given a fair trial.”
So most people tried in Germany, the Netherlands, France etc aren’t given fair trials?
“That’s a violation of any persons basic human rights: a right to a fair trial by jury.”
There is no such human right.
“Apparently the USA has one of the worst legal systems in the World, that has been said by many people.”
It does. And the US legal system is a jury system!
“Conrad Black, a Canadian multi -millionaire and a member of the House of Lords (sworn in along with Margaret Thatcher) who made his money in the media business, was found guilty a few years ago in the USA of fraud. His lawyers, whom made tens of millions from his court case, said there was no way he would’ve been convicted of any fraud if he was trialled in the UK or Canada. Conrad himself said he’d have got a fairer trial in Paraguay or North Korea. According to Conrad 99% of US prosecution cases end in convictions. 48 million people in the USA have a criminal record. Black people are 10 times more likely to be in a US prison than White people. The US legal system consumes 10% of USA GDP (that may be roughly 1.6 Trillion dollars).”
And these were tried by juries!
Good to note that Msgr Faul is getting some retrospective credit along with Msgr Murray.He was rightly applauded for his tireless work in exposing British injustices during the 70s.However when he started criticising Sinn Fein exploitation of the Hunger Strikers,he gradually became “persona non grata” in Republican circles.He soon found that even handed comment and criticism of the I R A didn’t go down well in Sinn Fein circles.The ultimate irony was that when the Archbishop of Armagh decided to appoint Msgr Faul as P P of Carrickmore,Sinn Fein in Tyrone lobbied against the appointment .Of course that didn’t stop them attending his funeral some years later.Hypocrisy was not dead apparently !
Didn’t the youthful leader of the SDLP attend the funeral of an INLA man? Or was it IRA?
Do I detect a note of whataboutery,Jude?!In as far as I remember the press reports of the coffin carrying by Eastwood,he made the case that he was a family friend of the deceased and simply was paying his respects to the dead mans family.I note that you haven’t disputed the facts of my initial post which highlighted the contortions of Sinn Fein in relation to the much respected Msgr Faul.
Uh-uh, Argie. I was simply pointing out that it’s possible to like/respect an individual, even when you’ve major political differences with them. Naturally republicans liked/respected Msgr Faul when he was highlighting injustice and torture of republicans, they were less enthusiastic when he attacked them. It’s not a difficult concept, Argie – not all is black and white.