The Brexit debate has begun to hot up throughout Britain, and a good example was on display last Thursday on the BBC’s Question Time. Those on the panel arguing for a British withdrawal from Europe included the Tory MEP Daniel Hannan, the Greens’ Baroness Jones and Dia Chakravarty of the Taxpayers’ Alliance. They were far from alone. The broadcast came from Doncaster and I’d say up to 50% of the studio audience were for Britain leaving the EU.
Why? Well, there were all sorts of reasons given – Britain should be focusing on trading with rising nations like China, India and Brazil; Britain pays in far more than it gets out of Europe; Britain needs to be able to protect her borders from the swarms of immigrants heading towards her.
But the most telling refrain cropped up with what is becoming a catch-cry of the BREXIT people: ‘We want our country back’. There’s nothing galls an English person more than the thought that a bunch of foreigners are able to pass laws that trump (no pun intended) British laws. Britain is a sovereign nation – we want our country back.
There are those who claim that the Americans don’t do irony. That the subtleties of British or Irish humour are not for them, pass the custard pie and hit somebody on the head with a hammer. After viewing Question Time on Thursday night, I’m driven to the conclusion that the US is a nation of Oscar Wildes compared to the British. “We want our country back” – where have I heard that before?
I’m not sure – maybe from Constance Markievitz. But whoever said it, the statement had an uncanny resemblance to the line being taken by the BREXIT crowd on Thursday night. As Markievitz (I think) said: “Damn your concessions, England. We want our country back”.
The parallel between laws being made in Brussels that British people must abide by, and laws being made in London which Irish people must abide by, clearly escaped all present on the panel of Question Time or in the Doncaster studio audience. Had it been pointed out to them, I have no doubt they would have insisted angrily that Britain’s relationship with the EU was a totally different matter from Ireland’s relationship with Britain. And they’d be right. Britain chose voluntarily to join the EU (and may now choose voluntarily to leave it); Ireland voted to leave the UK and the wishes of its people were ignored, and continue to be ignored.
As the father of the American civil rights movement Frederick Douglass put it so long ago: “At a time like this, scorching irony, not convincing argument, is needed”.
Barack Obama’s intervention in the EU referendum debate is a
“piece of outrageous and exorbitant hypocrisy…”
according to Boris Johnson. Johnson was born in New York. He also said,
“There is no country in the world that defends its own sovereignty with such hysterical vigilance as the United States of America. This is a nation born from its glorious refusal to accept overseas control.”
I wonder would Boris accept that British policy in relation to Irish sovereignty is also a piece of “outrageous and exorbitant hypocrisy” also? As little Englanders work themselves into a lather about a Brexit, there is no time like the present for a convincing argument in relation to the Irish Constitution.
As elected representatives engage in party political posturing, viz, the return of Joan and Zappone
“If we are not on TV, what is the point of having a meeting…”
a number of competent individuals have begun to articulate proposals that are specific and subject to audit in a relatively short period of time. There is a lack of houses and employment. People are homeless. People are dying on the streets. It is time to legislate for the compulsory purchase of land and houses now in the control of Nama and vulture funds. Such a constitutional imperative would create a much needed dynamic in employment opportunities for the greater good. There are alternatives to yet another right wing administration with a short life expectancy.
The question is, is there political will to really put People before Profit in Ireland?
“I die that the Nation may live. Damn you concessions, England. We want our country.” Sean MacDermott
Thanks, TH. There are several sources pointed to by different ‘authorities’. You’re a historian – I’ll take yours…
*your
Jude, how could you forget those immortal words ‘we have to claim our country back’ were uttered by that erudite David McNarry just about a week ago when spelling out how foreigners should be deported for such offences as receiving a parking ticket?
But I wonder if he would support nationalists/republicans who also want to claim their country back!
Their irony is somewhat rusty.
The eventual Brexit from Ireland is going to be glorious 🙂
The word Brexit is on everyone’s lips down here in Dublin, Esteemed Blogmeister, or at least on everyone in RTE’s lips, which amount to more or less the same thing. (If , that is, one happens to ‘work’ in RTE, of course).
Odd, therefore, that the companion word has yet to put its head above le parapluie de Cherbourg, one of which umbrellas timeshares in the Municipal Gallery, Dublin 1 for six months every year. (No, not with J. Brolly, Esq., aka the gallery man).
Almost like the legendary shoe which is tossed to the floor above one’s head at bedtime. One waits with debatable breath for its companion item of footwear to hit the floor with a thump. Indeed, if not The Thump.
Even if one is watching one of the breath-taking, attention- grabbing programmes on RTE, like, say, The Loot, Loot Show, presented by Ryan ‘Airhead’ Tubridy.
Curiously enough, it was the latter’s mentor who more than anyone else in Britannia West did most (at a consideration) to push the claims of the companion word to Brexit.
That would have been, respectively, Gay Byrne and,erm, Brentrance.
No need here to rehearse the Trojan efforts of this Christian Brothers’ boy on behalf of the horsey set to make it seem OK once again for Paddy Land to rejoin the UK.
A British dramatist sometimes known as The Great Shakes once put into the mouth of the Melancholy Jacques, a character in As You Like It:
-All the world’s a stage
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances.
G.B. (for it is still he!) for forty long years and more strove with might and, less mainly, main, to achieve his dearest wish with a Bren gun in one hand and – not sure what was in the other hand, but it certainly wasn’t the hand of a certain bearded pariah.
Without actually enunciating the B-word, Brentrance, the beautiful word which rhymes with (gulp) Remembrance, the selfless one went through not one, but, two not so mall fortunes, each the equal, or so it is whispered, to a Prince’s handsome ransom.
Forgotten now, but not gone, the melancholy Gay Byrne can still be glimpsed occasionally shambling across the silver screen of RTE. One wonders what is he waiting for? Brexit, perchance ? – on the other side of the Irish C, of course. For that would surely give a Proust-lie boost to the achievement of Brentrance with its calling card marked, erm, Remembrance of Times Past.
The Great Shakes (see above) also spin- doctored the following words into the mouth of one of the most ludicrous of looderamawns he ever created:
-Some are born great, some achieve great, some have greatness thrust upon them.
That would be the arch Puritan called Malvolio whose vanity and overreaching amour propre turns him into a total omadawn at the hands of Sir Toby Belch and pals. This model of propriety and political correctness ends up being hoodwinked into wearing an incessant smile plus cross-gartered yellow stockings with the intensh of impressing his personal queen. The very items of clothing which his queen abhors.
SemI-tragically, the grating Gay Byrne (82 +) is increasingly beginning to take on the miserable mantle of Malvolio with a bit of the melancholy Jacques thrown in, for bad measure. Even as he hosts his down in the mouth consolation prize, The Grate, Grate Show. And who could, in fairness, going f., blame him?
It cannot be easy to sit here in Britannia West, thrown on the scrap head of near-superstardom, while his near contemporaries (T.Wogan and E. Andrews) went on to become a Knight of the Realm and a CBE, after taking the easy road east.
Overwhelmingly disappointing, one imagines.
Fingers crossed, Brexit will be followed by Brentrance.
Either that, or……. The special Elizardbethan birthday hornours list will be a life buoy for the Synge Street boy.
Although still only 82 +, overnight Sir GB would be up to, erm, 90.
Otherwise, Ireland’s pioneering puriian may well be reduced to echoing Malvolio’s malevolent departing line, even as he exits, sans Brexit, sans Brentrance:
-I’ll be revenged on the whole pack of you !
I see the Daily Telegraph is giving a free sticker today of an armed knight at the coast and “We want our country back”. You’d nearly be tempted to buy a copy for the back window.
The Germans and the French have always been deeply frustrated with the English (there’s no point saying “British” applying that the Scottish/Welsh have their hands on the UK levers of power too, the English rule the roost and always have) when it comes to Europe. The attitude seems to be that the English don’t want to be part of the EU because they aren’t in charge. They have this superiority complex which must descend from running the biggest Empire in History (something Unionists boast as if its something to be proud of…) and this belief that they alone are worthy of ruling.
As a WWII enthusiast, I know that the likes of Adolf Hitler deeply admired the English and their Empire. Hitler even had deep ambitions of making an Alliance with England in order to rule the World. As even the common man knows Hitler considered the Germanic race to be the “Master Race” (I think the Russians proved that one wrong….) and believed all “inferior” races should be servant to the Germans and the English. The reason the English didn’t make an Alliance with Germany may have something to do with the fact Churchill was a Zionist and was paid by American Zionists for decades before.
The English in many ways held similar views to Hitler and the Pan Germans before that. The English for centuries tried to use “scientific” evidence to prove the Irish were descended from Black people, who were then considered subhuman, hence trying to find some sort of justification for their genocides in Ireland. Portraying the Irish as Drunkards was another tactic demonizing the Irish, which unfortunately is still portrayed today even though research shows the average English person, the Czech’s, the Germans, the French and many other nationalities consume more alcohol than the average Irish person.
The average English person really has little knowledge of the history of Ireland and England. They certainly aren’t taught It in school because the last thing the British Government needs is English people sympathizing with the Irish and demanding Northern Ireland be returned to those to whom it rightfully belongs.
When it comes to Brexit I think it is going to be a very close call. I think, at the minute, the Leave campaign is going to win it. There’s a lot of opportunities if the UK (well, England really) choose to leave the EU. Scotland and Wales will most likely vote to stay in. This will reawaken talks about another Scottish Independence referendum and its actually likely that the SNP will win it this time. A Brexit will be economically devastating for the North. Unionists delude themselves into believing the money the English save from leaving the EU will be put back into NI, there’s not a chance of that. There’s also a strong possibility that anyone coming from NI to Britain itself must have a passport if there’s a Brexit. How else could Britain secure its borders against immigrants coming through the Republic? Setting up border patrols will hamper cross border trade and will likely be a target of dissident Republicans.
we want our country back..
brexit can only be a good thing for here by the time a ui comes round if england exits they will be doing our work for us stopping the hordes of benefit tourists arriving and lets not kid ourselves on here thats what they are.
this referendum is not a good thing for the UK because whatever the outcome problems will just mount up.
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2016/02/14/the-british-question-faq/
“Ireland voted to leave the UK and the wishes of its people were ignored, and continue to be ignored.”
Eh? There’s been an independent Irish state since 1922. The wishes of the people in NI are not ignored: the majority wish to remain in the UK.
Telling demographic/social and cultural changes in the north of Ireland and a likely constitutional crisis in the UK caused by a EU exit will firmly put a United Ireland centre stage again. As Harold McMillan the former British tory PM once phrased it “Events, dear boy, events” in reply to a question by JFK concerning the things which change the course of history.
“Telling demographic/social and cultural changes in the north of Ireland and a likely constitutional crisis in the UK caused by a EU exit will firmly put a United Ireland centre stage again.”
Maybe they will but that means neither that there hasn’t been an independent Irish state since 1922 nor that the wishes of the people in NI are ignored.
We have in effect a partitioned country. With rapid changes in the demographic make-up off the north, one can foresee a possible majority for a UI in the not too distant future and Scottish Independence seems like a distinct possibility.
“We have in effect a partitioned country. With rapid changes in the demographic make-up off the north, one can foresee a possible majority for a UI in the not too distant future and Scottish Independence seems like a distinct possibility.”
All very possible but, again, it means neither that there hasn’t been an independent Irish state since 1922 nor that the wishes of the people of NI are ignored.
Following your logic MT Scotland did not need a referendum but it and Wales should be independent as the people in the general election in those countries voted differently from the rest of Britain.
Further to that the North of England should be partitioned from the south as again people there vote differently.
The majority in the province of Ulster voted for the freedom of Ireland. It required the creation of the artificial entity that is NI along with gerrymandering to give unionists control over these 6 counties. Hardly democratic,
“Following your logic MT Scotland did not need a referendum but it and Wales should be independent as the people in the general election in those countries voted differently from the rest of Britain.”
Eh? How so you work that out?
“Further to that the North of England should be partitioned from the south as again people there vote differently.”
Why?
“The majority in the province of Ulster voted for the freedom of Ireland. ”
No it didn’t.
“It required the creation of the artificial entity that is NI along with gerrymandering to give unionists control over these 6 counties. Hardly democratic,”
NI isn’t an artificial entity and it didn’t require gerrymandering to give unionists control. Unionists were a majority.
“NI isn’t an artificial entity” ?? Crikey. Why all those little squiggly bits on the map, then, MT? Not to mention six counties from the nine of Ulster. Oh, and the threat of violence.
“Crikey. Why all those little squiggly bits on the map, then, MT?”
It’s called a border. There are lots of them all over the world.
“Not to mention six counties from the nine of Ulster.”
What about them?
“Oh, and the threat of violence.”
What about it?
So you’re a soothsayer now MT ,” The wishes of the people in NI are not ignored: the majority wish to remain in the UK.”……Show me definitive proof…..not just the wishful thinking on your behalf ……and by the way the only referendum that matters in Ireland involves ALL of it’s people …..not a gerrymandered artificial cesspool that you mistakenly call ” Northern Ireland “!
“So you’re a soothsayer now MT ,” The wishes of the people in NI are not ignored: the majority wish to remain in the UK.”……Show me definitive proof…..not just the wishful thinking on your behalf”
Check out election results and opinion polls.
There was a plebiscite taken of the six counties before Northern Ireland existed to see if they wanted to stay with the land thieves or go. I must have missed that, MT.
“There was a plebiscite taken of the six counties before Northern Ireland existed to see if they wanted to stay with the land thieves or go. I must have missed that, MT.”
You should do some reading.
Could you give me a link to the plebiscite? How and who decided which counties would take part? Sure Carson and Craig and the rest of the colonists estimated how much of Ireland the could hold in a sectarian safe headcount and their brethren in the other border counties could languish in the priest ridden Rome ruled republican wilderness. And that wasn’t artificial? Come on.
Try the 1918 general election.
They picked on the counties with a unionist majority never thinking that this majority might disappear in time. What would they say now if Derry and Tyrone decided to leave this artificial statelet and backed it up with a tangible threat of violence underpinned by arms imported from ISIS for good measure. What price democracy then?
“They picked on the counties with a unionist majority never thinking that this majority might disappear in time.”
It wouldn’t have made much sense to pick the counties with a nationalist majority.
By your logic if in a future scenario, a majority(descendants of mainly Pakistani origin) in Yorkshire and Lancashire ever decide to break away from England and vote for unity with Pakistan, it should be allowed even though it breaks up a whole country. Presently the unionist grip on the six counties has been reduced demographically to 2(Down and Antrim) and thus we are in a whole different ballgame than the one played out during the early decades of the 20th century. The initial setup of the northern entity was calculated on a sectarian headcount and now some fresh thinking by unionist politicians is very definitely required.