I am not really a sports fan, but can appreciate a good competitive contest especially when there is an element of Irish or home county interest. It may be some years before Armagh football can reach the heady levels of the 2000s what with the rising quality of so many teams throughout the country, in particular Dublin, but it would be great to see them win another all Ireland within my lifetime. Oh why do we torment ourselves so?
Of course, Gaelic football is far superior to soccer, ask anyone who is not a diehard sports fan that has had to sit through the misery and monotony of a scoreless draw in soccer. While soccer does have its moments of inspirational skill and ability second to none, in reality the vast majority of matches are as dull as ditch water. Even rugby is guaranteed to have some scores and excitement in every game; and can you name any other sport that matches the sheer exhilaration of hurling?
So the two Irelands have reached an international final, and I have said that I wish both teams well. But do I really? I was walking around the shops yesterday and noticed a lot more green and blue soccer tops than Ireland tops, mostly on young people, and it annoyed me. As usual, I over-analyse everything and wondered why, since I no longer give a shit about the Republic of Ireland having decided to take the hump with the treacherous traitors in the south, did I care?
It would seem, casting aside the emotional identity that you grew up with is much harder than a rational decision, regardless of the justification or the reasoning behind it.
I suppose it boils down to this: we need to have at least one identity, just as we need a passport to travel. We have a choice to make. Regardless of my disappointment in how Ireland is today, I could never bring myself to travel under a UK passport, yet many nationalists, even republicans I know do.
So what is my problem I wondered?
Because I am Irish, and not simply because my passport says I am, but because it is in my DNA. Because my country is greater than any state, because my people’s desire for freedom is greater than any empire. Because many people from my community did not suffer and die just so our young people could suffer the humiliation of standing under the loyalist banner and to the Saxon anthem, offering their loyalties to a foreign land as a subject to a foreign King or Queen. Because I can choose not to be a maggot, because I still have a sense of pride. Because the very existence of this state is an insult to every true Irish man and Irish woman. And because I believe that no self-respecting Irish person could support this team.
As always, I will follow my heart.
Come on Poland!!
Dull? yeah maybe if your exposure is purely the premier league but the championship down is a different story, much more exciting games, quite possibly because there are no huge sums of cash involved, I do agree that Gaelic Football is a far superior game and the fans know how to behave themselves in public but football (the Engerland one) is a great sport if you bring the lower leagues into the debate.
see they brought their hatred with them,[doing the bouncy] ref to a catholic bate to death while the ruc looked on,wonder will marlene have anything to say about this,as for playing football if they were playing in the front garden ide pull the blinds.
How narrow minded is this Jessica
Supporting a sports team full of local guys taking part on one of the biggest sporting stages in the world makes people maggots.
How small minded is this. It’s fuelled by nothing but hatred and poor NI soccer team and they’re supporters are the target of this hatred.
It is a bit pathetic to use God save the queen for their national anthem. Wales & Scotland dropped it decades ago because they have more respect for their fellow nationals who aren’t monarchists.
Scott,
I think it was Malcolm X that said something like: “Don’t put a man on a hot stove and then get angry at what he says”
The point is the NI team represents NI. NI is held as illegitimate as by all Republicans. Its been a very hostile state against Republicans/Catholics since its very inception. Therefore the NI team isn’t going to be held in high regard by Republicans/Catholics.
That’s not to mention the History (present?) of sectarianism that the NI team and its fans harboured against Catholics. From Neil Lennon getting death threats to NI fans singing about being up to their knees in fenian blood…..
Awk catch a grip Ryan it’s a bloody football team people are supporting not a political movement. To call any nationalists traitors or “maggots” as Jessica says for supporting Northern Ireland is such a backward step.
That would be like me saying that the GAA has republican links so any unionist who goes to a match are Lundys or “maggots”.
Another example would be because Rory Mcilroy has declared he would play for Ireland in the Olympics should all Unionists turn there back on him and now see him as a traitor who is a die hard republican. Of course not.
I would never say that because I’m not so polarised by hatred to recognise the GAA and football for what they are, simply sport.
Any Irish supporting Northern Ireland is a backward step in my opinion Scott.
It is supporting division and the continuance of a failed sectarian state. Or is that not an opinion that is allowed?
Any opinion is allowed Jessica but that doesn’t make it correct or right.
Your labelling any Irish/nationalist/catholic who supports a football team a “maggot”.
Those are guys who have trained hard and with all the disadvantages from coming from a small country or province or whatever you want to call it, have achieved a massive success in getting to the Euro finals.
Now you are belittling them for taking part in a football tournament.
Not everything in life is about the constitutional question of Northern Ireland.
There is not a lot about Northern Ireland that is right Scott and it never will be.
Only a fool would embrace it. I choose not to.
The Northern Ireland football team is for the British separatists in Ireland only.
That is who they play for when they stand under the loyalist rag and sing their masters anthem. No one else. I would be ashamed if a s child of mine stooped so low.
Their wee country is all in their heads. They can keep it there
Scott
I see jessica has changed her mind about wishing the NI team well.
It is a pity such bitterness is still seen from many posters here, but not all republicans feel that way.
It seems hypocritical to me to demand that others put the past behind and move on while clinging to old hatreds oneself.
Let’s hope both teams can make it through the group stage which would be a remarkable achievement.
“It seems hypocritical to me to demand that others put the past behind and move on while clinging to old hatreds oneself.”
What old hatreds?
Northern Ireland is not my country .
They want to integrate our schools so we can educate our children that Northern Ireland is our country?
That the loyalist rag is our flag?
That the English anthem is our anthem?
The more people try to force it down my throat, yes, the more I will hate and despise it. But this is not an old hatred, it is a new hatred.
Don’t be surprised when many people reject it outright and no child of mine will ever attend a state school to have this crap imposed on them. They already know Ireland is our country and that the tri colour is our flag.
Any nationalist who travels on a British passport should be ashamed of themselves.
Gio, do you think it was ok for NI to play God save the queen as ‘our’ anthem? Do tell. Is that representative of everyone in the north? In an effort to move on it seems nationalist must suck it up and turn the other cheek? It seems we must bow to all things British and if we don’t we are full of bitterness? Again Gio it’s what you don’t say that is revealing.
wolfie
If we are now judging posters (or is it just me?)on the basis of what is not said,that gives us unlimited scope really.
You made a similar accusation to me on the thread about Loughinisland. I asked you what it was you thought I had not said but you failed to reply.
By your logic I conclude your silence meant you were admitting you were wrong.
As for GSTQ I would be happy to see it replaced with something neutral. It is an awful dirge.
Showing a bit of goodwill to the team does not require you to stand in your living room when the anthem comes on.
Set yourself free from all that bitterness,it can only destroy you.
Gio
I agree bitterness and hatred fuels many of the participants on this site. I also wish both NI and ROI well.
Wolfetone
Northern unionists are upstanding and respectful during the soldiers song at Irish rugby matches and I wouldn’t call them “maggots” as Jessica calls the nationalists who play for NI.
‘Set yourself free from all the bitterness….’ Lol. I know a good way of setting us all free Gio.
Again your continuous letsgetalongerism does not disguise your unionism otherwise you would be suitably disgusted that the English anthem was forced upon those who were roped into wishing the six counties well.
Btw the way don’t get it into your head that because I don’t respond to all of your letsgetalongerist comments that I somehow agree with you……..far from it.
wolfie
Listen to yourself man.
Who was roped into wishing the 6 counties well? No one is forced to wish them well,it just seems like a fairly basic bit of sporting goodwill.
Try it,you will feel better.
And maybe it is time to reclaim letsgetalongerism (along with do-gooders).
I say yes lets get along, it is better than not getting along. So shoot me!
“No one is forced to wish them well, it just seems like a fairly basic bit of sporting goodwill.”
Are you not having a go at us for not wishing them well?
I am quite happy to support the other team.
jessica
I am saying I find that attitude rather sad.
I can surely express an opinion, and you can disagree.
It is entirely up to you.No-one is forcing you to do anything, despite wolfe tone’s moping.
Scott if you don’t think there is politics in sport then you are very naive. There is politics in everything, be it sport,music,showbiz you name it you will find politics or a politician gate crashing it. Until unionists and letsgetalongerists recognise that Irish nationalists find it deeply offensive and divisive that the English anthem is forced upon us or a loyalist flag is forced upon us then there will always be folk who will object. Indeed the terror state that represents ‘northern Ireland’ has left nationalists with many scars and anger. It never represented us but rather threatened us. Would you be comfortable standing under a swaztika flag and a German anthem? Well that’s how nationalists feel with what represents Northern Ireland today. You may not like that anology but that’s the way it is.
There is indeed a strategy of making wee northernirelanders out of all of us in the six counties. Sadly republicans who should know better are facilitating this strategy knowingly or unknowingly. This strategy is preparing the ground for the much not talked about border poll. We are being bombarded by ‘northernirelandism’ albeit its target audience is the youth;no point in targeting those with long memories now is there? A subtle wee example: I grew up familiar with a charity that was called the ‘Ulster cancer foundation’. For some inexplicable reason it was changed to ‘the Northern Ireland cancer foundation’ four or five yrs ago. It may not matter to most but it’s a subtle form of social conditioning for our future generations…..a subliminal way of advertising Northern Ireland if you like, and we all know the power of advertising. It can make you buy things you really shouldn’t!
Maith tu Wolfe Tone, could not agree more.
The occupied media continue to extend the ‘nI’ identity to our youth, when the brit’s finally abandon them, where will a separate ‘nI’ be left?
Our problem, or that of those, like you, with long memories is, the disinterest of free state government, and media in projecting into this part of our country, I passed the ‘north-south’ building in Armagh last Monday and, what should be a ‘hive of activity’ is, as was in it’s old city hall day’s, just an infill for the old car park, frankly, the car park had more purpose, it is time we all, like once I did, wrote to government, RTE demanding our rights to representation as citizens, remember, we’re not subjects, and reclaimed our young people, before a potential ‘border poll’ takes away our hope of re-unification for ever.
But Mark, the Irish people are not united, not by a long shot.
The southern media and the establishment parties absolutely berated northern republicans during the elections.
I recall no outcry from the southern electorate who gave an overwhelming support for the two main partitionist parties.
What message do you think that sent to our young people about unity, about their place on this island?
It broke my heart but it happened and no one gave a damn. The older generation (like us) who remember when Ireland was united, when Charley Haughey took no shit from Britain or Europe, we will see Ireland that way until we die, and when we die it will be gone.
The new Ireland that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail envisage has closer ties to Britain and Europe but more so Britain. The event of a Brexit causes a dilemma for them, they will have to go to the people and recommend re-joining the UK, taking on Sterling and forming a new union with England.
Northern Ireland within the UK suits them in this goal. They can even use unification as a reason for it being considered but that is where they are taking us.
How we feel about it Mark doesn’t even come into it.
If there genuinely is good will for reunification then we cannot keep up the bullshit that it is inevitable, or that the nationalist people in the north will still want unity if we are treated as second rate citizens by the south who are more interested in appeasing unionism.
I don’t know what catalyst it would take to reignite a desire for unity on this island, but we need one more than ever.
You only see politics and the constitutional question in everything WT because that’s what you choose to do.
Everything isn’t a political statement and whether a nationalist chooses to play or support NI they certainly don’t deserve to be labelled a “maggot”.
Your example of the Northern Ireland cancer foundation only proves how you are so polarised by hatred that you have now turned a cancer charity into a political football.
Scott, I may be polarised, indeed I may be paranoid but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a battle for hearts and minds going on. I made a simple example about the Ulster cancer foundation. Would you agree the people who decided to change the name were equally polarised as well? Or does it only count when it’s republicans crying foul?
Now in the interests of getting along, moving on and being sensitive to all the people of Northern Ireland would you add your voice in condemning the playing of the English anthem at the Poland/n.i game? Do you accept that it is viewed as offensive to a large section of the people and thus should not have been played? Should the IFA apologise for offending those who were urged to ‘keep politics out of sport and support the team’? Or does the term of ‘moving on’ simply mean we must accept all things British or lump it? If so at least be honest and say it.
Btw, during the dark days of the troubles, the IFA played ‘Danny boy’ at n.i internationals whilst the the great and good used it as a gesture to the nationalist people of how n.ireland wouldn’t be a cold house for them if they only ‘moved on’. Fast forward to the end of the war the IFA for purely sporting reasons, ahem, elected to install the divisive English anthem once again. Sounds a bit like the cancer charity? The power of advertising……never underestimate it.
You shouldn’t allow yourself to be polarised by hatred WT it’s a poison that only destroys the people who harbour it and no one else.
Yeah I’m all for ditching GSTQ in favour of Danny boy. I agree with Gio GSTQ is a bit dull in fairness.
However singing GSTQ doesn’t make people maggots as Jessica calls them.
I’m upstanding for the soldiers song at Landsdowne road and I don’t take issue with it and so are any unionist rugby players also.
I think you need to take a little look at this and realise it’s simply no big deal.
“However singing GSTQ doesn’t make people maggots as Jessica calls them.”
That is your opinion, it is not mine
Gio, let’s get along…….as long as it means dropping complaints about partition isn’t that right? If this subject wasn’t political then why even bother commenting? Let’s get along and recognise the six counties as a country and if you don’t do that you are a bigot and full of bitterness? At least that’s what our kids are being taught anyway.
Northernirelanders complain that the free state was poaching their soccer players and demanded UEFA put a stop to it. If they had done as the nirelanders had requested we could’ve seen James mc clean forced to stand for the English anthem and he would have had to just accept it? How many others from a nationalist background have been duped into togging out for that state and are upset about standing for sweaty Betty’s song? We will never know as they will surely know life wouldn’t be worth living if they complained.
Again it’s what the letsgetalongerist don’t say that is much revealing. Will the ‘good cops'(Gio and Scott) send in the ‘bad cop'(M.T)? At least he is honest with his views.
‘However singing GSTQ doesn’t make people maggots….’
Nope but it makes them British isn’t that right? You patronise all you want but like the other unionists on here masquerading as letsgetalongerists you fail to address any points I make eg the IFA. Enough said. By not answering them speaks volumes.
wolfie
For goodness sake no-one is saying stop complaining about partition. You really are just moping.
Nor is anyone saying you have to recognise NI as anything.
Try this:
“I don’t agree with the creation of Northern Ireland but good luck to the team anyway.”
What is so hard about that?
Actually call that a rhetorical question and carry on nursing your hatred.
Most people do not seem to share your bitterness thankfully.
“Nor is anyone saying you have to recognise NI as anything.”
I recognise it as a sectarian shit pit.
“Try this:
“I don’t agree with the creation of Northern Ireland but good luck to the team anyway.”
Good luck to them in their lives, but when they play in support of the brit separatist state, I am supporting the other guys.
They are not my people, not one of them Scott.
I watched the majority of them singing the anthem, I hope at least one of them felt shame.
Some things you don’t do to further your career, that was one of them for any Irish person.
They don’t deserve our support, but our pity. Either because of the narrow mindedness that they choose to play as a sectarian statelet rather than represent their country or because they choose to allow a team representing a sectarian statement to continue.
They deserve to fail and fail miserably. But don’t worry, I am sure they will be invited to dinner in the city and be greeted with union jacks and loyalist banners waving (the rags they represent) to cheer them up. Michael D might even actually show up this time.
I think ,jessica, that you are starting to realize that the Irish people are not represented by the sycophants of the Free State government – regardless of which party is in ‘power’. Nor are they represented by the likes of Ruadhri MacGiolla Rua who can stuff ‘his wee country’ where Rosie stuck her onions.
“I think ,jessica, that you are starting to realize that the Irish people are not represented by the sycophants of the Free State government ”
Sorry fiosrach, but just as I judge unionism on the people they elect to represent them, I think it fair to judge the Irish people on who they elect to represent them, especially when the parties they vote for are being biased and insulting towards Irish citizens in the occupied territory, for so long abandoned.
I think you and many citizens in the north have become so used to being put down and insulted by unionism, British state ministers, state forces, the southern establishment, the media and so on, it has become the norm.
Who in the south defended us when the media day after day trashed republicanism and went out of its way to do so?
If you throw enough stones someone is going to get hurt.
The vast majority of people in the south don’t give a shit about us in the north, are happy with the status quo so long as it doesn’t effect their pocket and believe it is ok to bad mouth us as we are vulnerable whipping boys under the cosh of the British army with no choice but to take it.
The pipe dream of a UI is no longer enough for me to take it any more. You shouldn’t either fiosrach, enough is enough.
We are only second rate Irish if we allow ourselves to be.
Jessica,you ought to care about your southern brethren and that includes OUR football team-as you wrote “my country is greater than any state” and the international football team in a major tournament engages the sporting public more
than the overly self-regarding and insular GAA.I’ve played GAA and hurling in Tipp is an obsession but despite our momentous defeat of Cork today,it’s a bastardised and soporific mix of rugby and soccer,devoid of the latter two sports many skills.
Be patient about a UI;the demographics are about to reach a tipping point at the end of this year and an inevitable momentum will build especially if a Brexit and subsequent Scottish secession from UK materialise.
I ndeireadh an lae,taimid broduil as at Eireannachas agus tail an dochasach faoi todhcai polaituila San oilean seo.
Is miss me meas,
Maidhc
“Jessica,you ought to care about your southern brethren and that includes OUR football team-as you wrote “my country is greater than any state” and the international football team in a major tournament engages the sporting public more than the overly self-regarding and insular GAA.”
The GAA were a huge part of holding the Irish community together in the north throughout the conflict which for your information was not a PIRA terror campaign and the Irish community suffered equally. The GAA gave us a sense of community, preserved our identity, gave up their time freely to entertain and teach our children sports and exercise. If you are comparing the GAA to any sport, you don’t quite understand what the GAA is and just how much it meant to so many of us here. If it weren’t for the GAA, nationalism in the north would have despaired and not held it together.
The GAA have proven themselves through actions not words, but tell me why should we now care about our southern brethren (I hate that word by the way)?
The people in the south clearly don’t care about us?
“Be patient about a UI;the demographics are about to reach a tipping point at the end of this year and an inevitable momentum will build especially if a Brexit and subsequent Scottish secession from UK materialise.”
You do realise you used “inevitable” and “if” in the same sentence?
But tell me what you think demographics have got to do with a united Ireland?
I am an Irish republican and I would not support a united Ireland tomorrow. I don’t like where the republic of Ireland has gone or what it has become, why do you assume that I would want to be part of it?
As you say, demographics are about to change, so why when we are on the cusp of having control over 6 counties would we want to give it up to be treated like shite by Dublin who have become a proxy to British rule in Ireland.
Personally, I quite like the idea of using the majority the same way unionism has done to us for decades.
Lip service has been paid to UI for too long, the damage has been done and it would take another Charley Haughey style Taoiseach to restore support for a UI in the north anyway.
I am telling you now, demographics alone is not going to do it.
And I am already proud to be Irish, tell me are you proud of your republic?
Jessica,you have presupposed unjustifiably that I support INM’s narrative of the troubles (i.e. that they were started&escalated by the PIRA).I know that Gusty and his boys were engaged in sectarian slaughter as early as 1966,that the nationalist community were being burned en masse out of their homes (Bombay St.) and that the RUC ruthlessly suppressed the nascent Civil Rights campaign of the late 60’s.Not all southerners are ignorant of the casus belli in the six counties.
The mere existence of “Norn Iron” football team is an affront to our sensibilities and most ROI supporters would desire its expiry sooner rather than later,but what are we to do in the meantime,rant and rave without knowing the facts,insult our compatriots because they disagree with us;that would be wrong-headed and counter-productive.
No,I am not proud of our STATE;it is full of corrupt sleveen chancers but I believe in our people as a whole.The establishment in every country disdains the ordinary people.The establishment whole modus operandi is to maintain the status quo-they have no interest in a UI as it result in poltical reform and hopefully,the extinction of the gombeenman.
I still maintain Gaelic football is a horrendous spectacle and at inter-county level is largely uncompetitive i.e Dublin trounce everyone in their province,Kerry and Mayo in their respective regions.Ulster is the senior football championships only salvation with Donegal v Monaghan,usually providing a gripping,do-or-die battle of the utmost intensity-Tyrone are re-emerging from their transition too,I feel.
The cultural impact of the GAA in the north during the Troubles has been well-documented by the likes of Joe Brolly,Jarlath Burns and various docunebtaries such as recent one on Crossmaglen.I don’t trivialise your experiences during the Toubles for a moment and am a little ashamed Lynch bottled it,at least from a moral perspective,in 1969 as strategically he called it right as intervention would have resulted in a Balkan-like 1990s ethnic-cleansing and slaughter on an even greater scale than which transpired.
TippForLiam
Republicans are being marginalised on this island. The catholic community has been successfully divided into loyalties of who supports a northern Ireland identity and those like myself who reject it utterly.
The southern state has played its part in this division. I find myself disliking former friends who have embraced this northern Ireland identity.
Is it too little too late to do anything about it do you think?
I watched the entire game v Poland.
They were woeful, very lucky to get away with only a 1-0 defeat. The game was a good argument for the need for an All Ireland football team.
I tuned into the six counties football match v Poland for the first time in years. To my amazement they had God save the queen as their anthem. During the troubles they played Danny boy if I recall? How anybody who calls themselves a nationalist can stand or play for that i will never know. Pathetic house negroes.
Poland 1
Northern Ireland 0
I’m sure your in happy spirits after that score Jessica lol
Do I support the NI team? No. But do I wish them any ill will? No and I’m being genuine when I say that. I honestly couldn’t care if they did well or badly. As I stated before if NI won the Euros (stop laughing) I would say well done to the fans and continue on.
But why cant I bring myself to support the NI team? Well obviously its due to politics. I don’t regard this state as legitimate. This state has been a curse not only to the Catholic community but also to a large extent the Protestant community too. When I think of the NI team I cant help but get the image of DUP politicians with their Norn Iron scarfs around their necks fluttering into my mind, and its not pretty. The same DUP politicians that supported the oppression of my community for decades and many even wanted its destruction. Why would I support such a team that represents them?
I think what’s upset you most Jessica is the media. The media here have behaved as if everyone supports the NI team, it wants to give that impression but the reality is very different. Just as many Catholics support the NI team today as we did in 1980. You say you have seen mostly young people wearing NI shirts Jessica? I have seen very differently, 95% of all the football shirts I seen on young people here have been Republic shirts and I’ve seen that in Belfast City Centre.
The media likes to ignore the massive support for the Republics team here. The Nolan show last week or the week before did a large section on the NI football team. After the section was over, Stephen Nolan simply mentioned the Republic’s team by saying “Oh, and good luck to the Republics team in the Euros”. That was it.
Personally I want an All Ireland football team just like we have in Rugby. Polls indicate that a majority in the North support an All Ireland team anyway. Maybe there should be a referendum on the issue?….
Oh im not upset Ryan, we had a good time watching the match along with a pub full of polish all having a great time.
Very rowdy bunch, not sure what they were singing but had a lot Polski.
Pity they didn’t score a few more goals but we had a good celebration together when they did score and when they won.
But there is a concerted effort on this island to promote a northern Ireland identity. I choose to reject it outright.
Come on Germany, come on Ukraine!!!
Errmmm, Jessica, in a back handed way, just called NI fans “Maggots”. Should there not be an Editors note from Jude requesting Jessica to play the ball and not the man? Consistency is always good in a heated debate.
I totally agree and thank you for drawing it to my attention. Jessica, and everyone else: less – in fact no – abuse, please.
“just called NI fans “Maggots”
That wasn’t the intention KC.
I can indeed now see how some might think that if the shoe fits.
Well spotted indeed.
If she’s shoe fitting again, I want Jude refereeing and delivering notices stating, we know what your up to Mrs.
Was in the capital during the foreigners games last evening but, I was, with pleasure, informed the occupied part had been defeated by them Poles, I rang the wife, ‘how’s it going’?.
Curiously there was a problem and the line went dead, all picture and no sound in Belfast.
Mean spirited at best.
Our wee island.
https://twitter.com/stephenblevins9/status/742456923799363585