Two recent matters where I appear to have got it wrong.
Regarding the families up at Stormont recently, seeking satisfaction from the proconsul Brokenshire: I was under the impression that they were seeking an inquest for the first time. MT has pointed out that they would have had an inquest at the time of the deaths, and a quick bit of checking establishes that he’s right. However, if we take the case of the Ballymurphy families – and I’m sure several others – an inquest was held at the time which returned an open verdict: that is, no conclusion could be reached, although there were ground for suspicion regarding their deaths. Let’s hope they get the fresh inquest and that the full truth emerges, however belatedly. But I got it wrong, and my thanks to MT for pointing that out.
The second item on which I want to do a U-turn is my anthem-and-flag proposal – that the playing/singing of Amhrán na bhFiann and the flying of the Irish national flag at GAA games should be suspended for two years, in order to remove what might be perceived as barriers to our Protestant/unionist fellow-countrymen and women enjoying the games. Why have I changed my mind? Two words: Trevor Ringland.
Trevor is a man I have known for some time and there are a lot of things I like about him. I believe he’s sincere in the cross-community initiatives he’s behind and I would place him on the fair-minded, reasonable side of unionism.
However, when I was on Talkback with him earlier this week, proposing the two-year-removal of the anthem and the flag at GAA games, I asked him if that would open the door for Protestant/unionists. He danced away from the question but I eventually got him to say that “it would help”. In other words, it wouldn’t be enough. Message received: change the name of GAA clubs we don’t like, rename the tournaments to more user-friendly unionist names…And so it goes. In short, except nationalists/republicans strip their GAA of every sign of nationalism/republicanism, Protestants/unionists will have nothing to do with it. And there was me thinking that a bold gesture of invitation would make a difference. So old and yet so naïve.
Jude
It takes a real man to own his mistakes.
That’s why I always like reading your blogs and the replies. You can see the other points of view and evaluate it. I like that openness in a person.,It shows a generosity of spirit.
You are very kind, Angela. Go raibh maith agat…
Trevor Ringland obviously has not got a problem with either the Tricolour or the soldiers song. He along with many other Unionist players and supporters go down in our thousands to both landsdowne and Croke and there’s not a issue.
I think you failed to listen to Trevor, Jude he tried to explain that the tricolour at Landsdowne was a different animal to the one at GAA games. You seemed more interested in getting the answer you wanted out of him.
It’s not the Flag/anthem which is the problem. It’s naming grounds after IRA men and holding commerations to hunger strikes etc. It’s the the Republicanism of the GAA that puts Unionists off the sport.
Saying all that I agree with PF. It’s your thing and you don’t need to change just to suit us. If the GAA wants to keep Republicanism intertwined with the organisation then that’s a matter for them and there members.
SR, – You would possibly agree, then that nationalists/republicans are seriously discouraged from supporting Ulster rugby by the sight of the permanent British army war memorial at the entrance to Ravenhill.
I’m not sure if the majority are put off by the memorial at Ravenhill Sherdy. I’ve also found that Rugby attracted large numbers from both communities.
I’m don’t think the mainstream Catholic/Nationalist community would be put off by a war memorial, it’s more the extreme Republican section off that community that would have a problem with it in my humble opinion.
Jude
I have no doubt your proposal regarding the GAA was made in good faith, but it was always likely to be rejected.
I would guess that the issue of clubs honouring IRA members (was there an instance of medals being given to children?) may be a greater sticking point than the flag issue.
Of course there are those who would never be satisfied as you suggest and no changes would suffice but many, I think, would not be overly bothered by a flag or an anthem.
Maybe a private exchange of email with someone like Trevor Ringland would have clarified how your suggestion would be received. Just a thought.
“(was there an instance of medals being given to children?)”
Bobby Sands Medals. I don’t see what the issue was, I think they have been giving out medals like that for years, the GAA have grounds named after Republicans from centuries ago right up to the recent era. The equivalence would be Unionist councils naming public things like Bridges, Roads, etc after British Royals.
The reason why there was such a kick up over the Bobby Sands medals was because Nelson McCausland wanted to make one. Coming up to election time, ya know, something needs printed to get the electorate focusing on politics again and making sure Nelson gets his MLA salary.
“Bobby Sands Medals. I don’t see what the issue was, I think they have been giving out medals like that for years, the GAA have grounds named after Republicans from centuries ago right up to the recent era. The equivalence would be Unionist councils naming public things like Bridges, Roads, etc after British Royals.”
And therein lies the problem.
A bitter young man from a republican area sees nothing wrong in indoctrinatng young children in a pro-terror culture, and considers it to be equivalent to naming a bridge after the Queen.
This is the poison that wider society somehow has to deal with.
To err is human and all that. As for the anthem/flag proposal, the simple remedy would be to change the names of the teams, Derry becomes Londonderry and Antrim becomes Queen`s County or something, the grounds could be named after various dead British empire loyalists, like Thatcher, Churchill (the boozer not the insurance mutt) and Lenny Murphy. Simples.
AJ
Is that really the choice? Republican men of violence or right wing Brits, and nothing in between?
If only there were some other figures from GAA history who are worthy of having grounds named after them. Apparently not.
Another Jude.
When even GGA supporters are talking about the politics of the game rather the skill of the game, you’re doing the game harm.
Focus our attention of the game and you’ll do more to change minds.
Assuming it’s about the game, of course.
Get with the program Jude. Unless nationalists embrace all things British, and even then they still won’t be trusted, then unionists won’t be happy. But nationalists must do this of course, in the interests of peace and getalongerism.
Btw, if you wanna get a laugh, you should lend an ear to Thursdays talkback programme. We heard some eejit on tying himself in knots defending the mural to unionist terrorist Mckeag. Unionism is trying so hard to justify the acts of those who carried them out, on their behalf, for God and Ulster and all that. Hilarious stuff altogether. They really are the gift that keeps on giving.
“Btw, if you wanna get a laugh, you should lend an ear to Thursdays talkback programme. We heard some eejit on tying himself in knots defending the mural to unionist terrorist Mckeag. Unionism is trying so hard to justify the acts of those who carried them out, on their behalf, for God and Ulster and all that. Hilarious stuff altogether. They really are the gift that keeps on giving.”
‘Unionism’ wasn’t defending the terror.mural. Please don’t lie. It was formed terrorist Jim Wilson, who also defended republican terror.murals. Pro-terror communities on both sides of the divide have a lot in common.
” We heard some eejit on tying himself in knots defending the mural to unionist terrorist Mckeag. ”
They have some strange “heroes”. McKeag was a well known drug dealer and drug addict. A sectarian psychopath, the murder of civilians was even driving him crazy, hence the drug addiction. One of those behind the Dublin/Monaghan bombings went crazy and was even in a mental hospital. McKeag was found dead, covered in his own urine and vomit, with a needle in his arm, he had overdosed. Police later said he had consumed cocaine too. At first they thought McKeag was murdered because his face was bruised and he had fired a crossbow and the arrow was stuck in his living room wall. They later ruled this out and said his death was due to a drug overdose.
Such a lovely role model for kids on the Shankill……on a serious note, what hope do these kids have when they are taught to look up to people like McKeag?….
It seems to me, Jude ,that if you are Irish, speak Irish, sing Irish songs and play Irish
games you must desist, to make yourself agreeable to those who hate you.
If, in addition, you are a Catholic, you must also renounce your religion.
If there are people who hate me for being what I am that’s not my problem.
It’s theirs, and they can do what they like with it. But they can’t do what
they like with me.
So I won’t mimic Professor John A Murphy who brass-rubs a statue of the Famine
Queen and ass-kisses Queen Elizabeth
Isn’t this about a game?
Fawlty banned me from Slugger OTool for stating that Ringland was nothing but an RUC apologist. I was replying to a tirade Ringland had launched against Gerry Adams ,calling for Adams to disappear from public life and to apologise to “the community” on his way out.Apparently in Fawlty’s eyes it was OK to grossly insult Adams but to say that an uncritical RUC supporter might be a hypocrite was deemed beyond the pale.
‘Banned from Slugger’ – is that not a badge of honour?
Now…Jude, every one of us puts his foot in his mouth now and again.No problem with that at all. I don’t believe any amount of tweaking of the GAA would make the slightest bit of difference, mind.My wife’s father was a county player back inthe 1950s and there is a bit of that family tradition running through that side of the family ,even though her siblings are married through a variety of diverse cultures. There is pride in that association and the fact that their dad and his brother were well -thought of sportsmen. On the other hand , although I can enjoy a match , I’m no great sports lover, myself, at all and that includes soccer and all the rest….different strokes for different folks and all that.I can see that it is more complicated in our very divided community here where one side gets their kicks from all things Orange/British marching bands, militarism and so on ….and the other has been brought up to think of themselves as Irish and identify completely with the revived Gaelic traditions. This has become their great amateur success and it has bound communities together…friends, families…ownership of their various local clubs. It’s not surprising then that there is little interchange between the two traditions. I suppose you can also say that Orangeism tried something like you suggested for the GAA with their Orangefest but I doubt that many Irish nationalists paid much heed to that either. You might say these two positions are seen as the extreme opposite ends of a divided society , with a wash of variety in between.If we had integrated education ( and that would mean teaching both “real” Irish history and “real” British history on an equal basis, to give a more rounded idea of our origins) it might be that children could share their games and at least understand and talk about the beliefs each other espouses and begin to understand each other a little more.In those circumstances the door might be open to more participation. I don’t believe we are anywhere near the point where we are ready to share enthusiasms though.
Well Jude anyone can make a mistake. At least you made up for it in your final sentence !
Jude
Let’s switch this GAA thing around a bit.
Why do you want Unionists/Protestants like me to attend?
May be the answer to your dilemma is in the answer to that question.
I don’t WANT you to attend. I swear – hand on heart – it just struck me that Protestant/Unionists are averting their eyes from a game that has become truly spectacular in recent years. No trap – no notion that they would then be seized upon and “Irish” or even”nationalist” branded on their foreheads. I have no dilemma at all, PF. I have fairly swiftly come to see that, for whatever reason, Protestant/unionists aren’t interested in attending or playing GAA games, and changing things like the flag or anthem (usually the first things to be mentioned by P/Us ) wouldn’t make a bit of difference. So be it. I’d rather eat my own head than go to a cricket match – but I know people who see cricket as next door to heaven. Different folk, different strokes. Doesn’t look like that gesture of conciliation (if the GAA had chosen to make it) will not find a warm reception. And that’s fine – it’s certainly not going to stop me enjoying GAA games. Looking forward already to next weekend…
Jude
Are the flag and anthem really the first thing mentioned in your experience?
It seems to me that the honouring of former IRA members is a bigger problem.
Did that really not occur to you?
‘Protestant/unionists aren’t interested in attending or playing GAA games, ‘
Me thinks one should differentiate between Protestant and unionists. Protestants do attend and play GAA games. I know that for a fact. They may not be in great numbers but they do partake. I suppose it’s a bit like those Protestants who would vote for irish unity. They dare not say so for obvious reasons. Unionists, who happen to be Protestant don’t participate. But I can guarantee you unionists who happen to be Catholic don’t participate either.
Jude, thank you for your reply.
I admit, though, to a degree of confusion, on two counts. The first concerns your desire to attract Unionists to the game. In the previous entry you said:
“If it did, it would end the sadness some of us feel that our unionist neighbours seem determined to avoid the most popular and thrilling sport in the country.”
On the basis of that I assumed that you would like to see Unionists attend and enjoy the occasions you yourself enjoy. And I think that’s a reasonable assumption.
And on the basis of that, and with that same congenial tone, I asked your reasons for ‘wanting’ us to attend. And I suppose I expected you to say something like – the thrill of the game, the variety of hand-eye-foot-stick coordination skills, the passion, the spectacle, the nuance of the game and so on.
Indeed I *wanted* you to persuade me of the merits of games I have little knowledge of; and I admit to disappointment in your reply. I’m not feeling forced, I didn’t foresee a trap, I wanted you to communicate something of the pleasure you feel.
Secondly, I admit to confusion regarding your point about gestures of conciliation. I get your point, of course. He would be a fool who would suggest that the nationalist associations of the games do not put Unionists off, but it sounds like (and I could be mistaken) that the cool response makes you feel rebuffed, and rebuffed for sectarian reasons. It’s as if you hear Unionists saying something like, ‘You can do whatever you want to soften your games, but ‘stuff off’ anyway.’
And that’s pity. Not everything is a conflict. And the point I was trying to make (and failing miserably, unfortunately) was, ‘Sell the game on the merits of the game, and see if you can pique my interest.’
I, for one, am not avoiding GAA cause I hate (add suitably insulting word for effect), I just don’t understand the game.
That was all.
You see, all along I’ve been thinking about the game, not the nationalism.
And even at that, sanitising the GAA by renaming stadiums, clubs, tournaments et al, is there a guarantee that Protestants / Unionists would embrace the organisation? Doubt it!
If I recall correctly MT proposes moving away from the Catholic Parish system and would like to see the organisation becoming more secular orienatated … That Sunday games should move to alternative days to suit the Protestant denominations who embrace the Sabbath … The contraction – we don’t want your religion having a monopoly over the GAA but it must suits ours!
“If I recall correctly MT proposes moving away from the Catholic Parish system and would like to see the organisation becoming more secular orienatated … That Sunday games should move to alternative days to suit the Protestant denominations who embrace the Sabbath … The contraction – we don’t want your religion having a monopoly over the GAA but it must suits ours!”
Not sure how seeking to open up to all religions can be interpreted as suiting one religion over another.
“However, when I was on Talkback with him earlier this week, proposing the two-year-removal of the anthem and the flag at GAA games, I asked him if that would open the door for Protestant/unionists. He danced away from the question but I eventually got him to say that “it would help”. In other words, it wouldn’t be enough. Message received: change the name of GAA clubs we don’t like, rename the tournaments to more user-friendly unionist names…And so it goes. In short, except nationalists/republicans strip their GAA of every sign of nationalism/republicanism, Protestants/unionists will have nothing to do with it. And there was me thinking that a bold gesture of invitation would make a difference. So old and yet so naïve.”
Unionists are excludes from the GAA because of its republican politics. Temporarily not using the Southern flag and anthem would not on its own get rid of that political ethos. It would only be a small part.
If the GAA wants to open itself up to all Irish people, unionist as well as nationalist, it needs to divest itself of its republican ethos. My ten-point manifesto would work in the long term. Half-assed temporary measures would be pointless.
Is the GAA up for it?
No. The politics are more important to it than is the prize of becoming inclusive and truly national.
“Unionists are excludes from the GAA because of its republican politics.” What?! Generalisation as per usual. So are all members of the GAA interested in or engage with Republican politics? Many Unionists choose to be excluded from the GAA as they are insular, fail to embrace diversity and anything outside their own narrow mindedness in an alien concept.
“My ten-point manifesto would work in the long term.” How would it? Where’s the guarantee? How many unionists have you run your “manifesto” passed who would be willing to change their views on the GAA? Regardless of what moves the GAA would make, some Unionists would have an issue!
“The politics are more important to it than is the prize of becoming inclusive and truly national.” The GAA does no prohibit anyone from taking part – those who do not take part chose not to take part. Perhaps Unionist politics is more important to some.
““Unionists are excludes from the GAA because of its republican politics.” What?! Generalisation as per usual.”
How is it a generalisation?
“So are all members of the GAA interested in or engage with Republican politics?”
I doubt it. But clearly they’re not bothered by it or they wouldn’t join.
“Many Unionists choose to be excluded from the GAA as they are insular, fail to embrace diversity and anything outside their own narrow mindedness in an alien concept.”
Blame the excluded for their exclusion? Nice.
Unionists don’t join because it’s a republican organisation and culturally alien to them.
““My ten-point manifesto would work in the long term.” How would it? Where’s the guarantee? How many unionists have you run your “manifesto” passed who would be willing to change their views on the GAA? Regardless of what moves the GAA would make, some Unionists would have an issue!”
As I already said, it’s unlikely that any, or many, unionists would change their mind. The point is to win over future generations who would grow up with an inclusive rather than an exclusive GAA.
““The politics are more important to it than is the prize of becoming inclusive and truly national.” The GAA does no prohibit anyone from taking part – those who do not take part chose not to take part. Perhaps Unionist politics is more important to some.”
Again, rather than examine the barriers to inclusion and the reasons for exclusion, you blame the excludes for their own exclusion. Head in the sand stuff.
“Unionists are excludes from the GAA because of its republican politics. Temporarily not using the Southern flag and anthem would not on its own get rid of that political ethos. It would only be a small part”
That’s maybe because the GAA is a republican organisation….. Unionists are not excluded, there’s nothing in GAA rules that excludes Unionists. Can a Catholic join the Orange Order? Would you agree with the Orange Order ditching its Unionist ethos and its specific rule of prohibiting Catholics? Indeed I think your not allowed to join the Orange Order even if your Protestant but your wife is a Catholic….surely it must be more inclusive? Can LGBT people join the Orange Order?….
“My ten-point manifesto would work in the long term”
No it wouldn’t. It was sectarian drivel that I don’t think a single nationalist on this blog took seriously, we didn’t even respond to it with an answer. Needless to say the GAA Leadership would laugh you out of the room if they ever read it.
“The politics are more important to it than is the prize of becoming inclusive and truly national”
You have to laugh at people who are anti-inclusive, anti-Catholic and who made a “culture” of it trying to preach about inclusivity.
Stick to pot noodles and mugs of Buckfast tonic wine, MT. Leave politics to the grown up’s.
“That’s maybe because the GAA is a republican organisation….. ”
Obviously. That’s the point.
“Unionists are not excluded, there’s nothing in GAA rules that excludes Unionists.”
So it’s a republican organisation but it doesn’t exclude unionists? Right, OK.
You don’t need express rules to exclude people, though the GAA has plenty (flag, anthem, RC parishes, and requirement to subscribe to its objects). The ethos and practices also exclude.
“Can a Catholic join the Orange Order? Would you agree with the Orange Order ditching its Unionist ethos and its specific rule of prohibiting Catholics? Indeed I think your not allowed to join the Orange Order even if your Protestant but your wife is a Catholic….surely it must be more inclusive? Can LGBT people join the Orange Order?….”
It’s an organisation specfically and exclusively for Protestants so it wouldn’t make sense to allow Roman Catholics to join. Should they allow Protestants to join who are married to RCs? Yes, I believe they should. Can LGBTs join? I’m not aware that they can’t.
Interesting that you choose the Orange Order as an equivalent one to the GAA.
“No it wouldn’t.”
How do you know?
“It was sectarian drivel that I don’t think a single nationalist on this blog took seriously, we didn’t even respond to it with an answer. Needless to say the GAA Leadership would laugh you out of the room if they ever read it.”
That you’re unable to articulate why the manifesto wouldn’t work suggests that you just don’t want to attract unionists into the GAA. Fair enough, but why not just say so?
“The politics are more important to it than is the prize of becoming inclusive and truly national”
“You have to laugh at people who are anti-inclusive, anti-Catholic and who made a “culture” of it trying to preach about inclusivity.”
I’m not ware of anyone who is anti-inclusive or anti-Catholic preaching about inclusivity.
“Stick to pot noodles and mugs of Buckfast tonic wine, MT. Leave politics to the grown up’s.”
You appear unable to engage in mature discussion, which makes your statement highly ironic.
Down here in deferential Dublin, Esteemed Blogmeister, the name of Trevor Ringland is but a decimal point away from deification.
Correction, was.
Even without a bus-strike one can wait an age for a double decker whose destination is Doubtville, Dublin 3. And what happens? Correct, son. Three come along at the one and the same time.
It was as if Yo Yo Ma had played three bum notes in a row during the course of the second movement of Dvorak’s Cello Concerto , celestial music if ever there was such, the very sound track of a canonization.
The driver of the first double decker marked Doubtville, D 3 was the redoubtable Joe McVeigh who drew attention to a letter of Blessed Trevor’s to a Belfast newspaper. In which the open-minded one stated he’ probably’ would not be watching the documentary on the Hunger Strikes, ‘66’ days.
Eh?
Bus-strike one, as it were.
The driver of the second double-decker was your good self, EB, in which Trevor R (the Blessed is under consideration by this stage as a hatful of reputable milliners consider it renders the putative saint a tad over-dressed) displays a certain irreverence towards the (gulp) GAA.
Heavens ! Does the Loyal Lad not realize that the official IRFU policy is ‘ Don’t Let’s be Beastly to the GAA’, going forward. At least in the run up to the World Rugby Cup. As their stadia will be called upon to play a (gasp) pivotal role in West Britannia’s Bid for the WRC.
The Hard Yards, The Hard Yards, Trev: the road to Rugby Paradise is paved with the Hard Yards, lad !
This is the sort of off-message missive writing and studio sounding off which give the Alickados in Camp Aviva a tightening in their already, erm, squeezed middle.
Bus-strike two, as it were.
While perusing today’s blog indeed, whose back-row baritone came on RTE with Sean O’Rourke only that of the living oval-balled legend from de banks of his own lovely Lee: Donal ‘Lion-hearted’ Lenihan himself and he to be flogging his memoir.
Although originally from a bogball background, global-zonal Donal rose above all that sort of narrow parochialism when he swopped the round ball for an oval one, on being enrolled in a CBS, oops, CBC.
Drawing on a vast reservoir of rugby anecdotes for his memoir, Droning Donal recalled a late night sing-song in some far flung corner that was at one time destined to be for ever England.
The anecdote featured a Ringland called Trevor.
After autographs had been signed, pints of G-Black had been quaffed, wine red, wine white too by the carafe, , the bonding graph button had been pressed, fore and aft, it was then, alas, that Droning Donal committed a gaffe.
Always game for a laugh, and having already off-loaded in a jolly cross-border chorus of ‘The Sash’ , the Leesider thought a bash at a little balance was required so he launched into a full press versh of ‘Where only our Rivers Run Free, boy ’.
The Lagansiders, alas, went into post –Victorian mode: they were not at all amused by this rugga equivalent of a, erm, Hail Mary Pass. None more so than TR who demonstrated the extent of his 6-county Ulster Umbrage by ripping off his green Irish tie. Prior to stalking off, in a huff / a height of dudgeon.
Open-shirted, if not open-minded. The riff of a rebel song, even one from de Re-bel County, not and reverence for the RAF, did not a happy combo make.
At this stage the Perkin’s inner Ireland’s Call-boy, Albert, was humming his all time favourite Mooney-tune: ‘I’ll tell me Yo Yo Ma when I get home’.
Could this be the tainted end of a putative sainthood ? A third-bus-strike and he’s out, sorta deal?
Settle, petal.
Sainthoods call for a miracle and this is just what we loyal listeners got; and in spades, from the rugby-ogling O’Rourke.
Alickadoo Abracadabra !
By the end of the interview, halos had been restored. Trevpr R. was once more in good odour and it was that grubby facet of the GAA mentality which was suddenly the target of the grubber-kick. The turn around was complete !
-Certain elements in the GAA still have this ‘We are more Irish than thou’ mentality.
(One recalls the GAA being pinged for a similar kind of ‘racial purity’ thingy by a sophisticated responder to Joe McVeigh’s Ringland-ringfenced blog a few days ago).
Hmmm.
Now/ Anois where has one heard this (yawn, stretch and trouser cough) tedious tosh being trotted out before ? Ah, yes. Of course, the Cyclops chapter of Ulysses, no less. In which the Citizen aka Michael Cusack, founder of the GAA, got the long over-due racial purity put-down of all time, from the saintly L. Bloom, esq..
James Joyce, whose guff-spouting bluffer of a father also, curiously enough, hailed from Leeside, and whose social climbing instincts Joyce og inherited, lock, s. and double-barrel, expressed his inferiority to the racially pure nativists on one memorable (alleged) occasion even as he dragged his son by the ear-lug to the rugger-nourished environs of Belvo.
From the cruel school of the Christian Bros , whose Dublin version of Dotheboys Hall was headmastered by the Wackford Squeers of Wexford and in whose clutches his uber-sensitive son had spent a harrowing and less than heavenly Seven Days.
-No son of mine will be schooled with Paddy Stink and Mickey Muck !
PS Drone on, Donal but don’t forget: wait till the bid for the World Rugby Cup has been (successfully) completed; till then, go aisy on the P. Stinks and Mickey M’s . of the GAA.
Must trev up and eff off now. There’s a bus-strike on.
Tickety boo.
Sorry, PW, but in your first paragraph I thought you had misspelt the word defecation!
Leithsceal glactha/ Apologies accepted , Sherdy, a chara.
Even The Great Shakes was not above the odd misspelling. As when he misquoted Royalty.
Richard the Turd: An arse ! An arse ! My kingdom for an arse !
“He danced away from the question but I eventually got him to say that “it would help”
In reality Jude, it wont do anything to “help”. The only thing it will do is rightly anger Nationalists. There isn’t a queue of Unionists lining up outside a GAA stadium to get in to check if a Tricolour is flying then leaving because of it.Taking down our national flag and taking away our national anthem wont do anything but goad the extreme sectarian elements of Unionism into making demands and taking advantage of sincere efforts by some Nationalists to reach out to Unionists. It would all just end badly.
But not only that, its also the wrong way to go about things. Unionists have to accept that the Irish flag/anthem is the flag of hundreds of thousands of people here in the North. How is taking AWAY the flag/anthem encouraging Unionists to do this? Not many Unionists accept the fact many people here are Irish and Irish alone, despite the Good Friday Agreement ensuring Parity of Esteem. For example Gregory Campbell still wants to FORCE Catholic players to play for the Northern Ireland soccer team. Its no wonder the vast majority don’t because of the likes of Gregory. If there was a Unionist equivalent to the GAA, like a soccer organisation that promoted British identity, Unionism, etc I wouldn’t expect them to remove their national anthem/flag at matches.
I’m just thinking now, how do we know Unionists don’t attend GAA games? Sure Unionists on this blog might say that most Unionists don’t go to GAA games but how would they know? They hardly know every single Unionist and there’s many different versions of Unionism, as shown by the many different Unionist parties. The GAA isn’t the Orange Order, they don’t keep records of their members religion nor do they check the political opinion of people who attend and watch games.
Its not as if the GAA is demanding to parade and march through Unionist/protestant areas. It doesn’t need to change, its already been highly successful in growing and encouraging great Irish sports in Ireland and worldwide, I really am surprised to hear the places in the World where GAA grounds are located, there’s even ones in places like Pretoria, Munich and Beijing. These GAA bodies do more than just play sport, they also help many Irish migrants who may need help. If Unionists want to join/attend games then they should be welcomed. I’m not saying the Irish flag should be shoved in their face but it shouldn’t be removed when live games are played. Of course we need to create a friendly environment for those Unionists who WANT to play in the GAA but don’t resort to extreme and futile efforts for those who don’t and never will.
“Unless nationalists/republicans strip off every sign of catholicism, nationalism/republicanism, and give up speaking Irish, singing Irish songs and playing irish games protestants/unionists will have nothing to do with them”.
Didn’t the Protestants/unionists/loyalists sign up to “parity of estem”?
Did nobody explain to them what that means?
“Didn’t the Protestants/unionists/loyalists sign up to “parity of estem”?
Did nobody explain to them what that means?”
The GAA clearly didn’t. Not a unionist about the place.
That’s total nonsense, MT. If you knew anything about the GAA you’d know they welcome anyone and everyone, and probably unionists especially.
“That’s total nonsense, MT. If you knew anything about the GAA you’d know they welcome anyone and everyone, and probably unionists especially.”
So why don’t they take steps to ditch the politics and open up? Because they don’t want to. The politics are more important to it than is the prize of becoming truly national and representative of all Irish people.
“Didn’t the Protestants/unionists/loyalists sign up to “parity of estem”?
Did nobody explain to them what that means?”
Valid point, BM – how about actually answering the question, MT?
And maybe cite any available evidence as an example of PUL community commitment to parity of esteem.
With all due respect Jude, I could have told you what Ringland’s response would be before he came on the talkback show.
“Valid point, BM – how about actually answering the question, MT? And maybe cite any available evidence as an example of PUL community commitment to parity of esteem.”
I don’t know who individually signed up to parity of esteem.
An obvious example, though, would be support for GFA and power-sharing.
“An obvious example, though, would be support for GFA” – that agreement the DUP failed to ratify and support?
“An obvious example, though, would be support for GFA” – that agreement the DUP failed to ratify and support?
Yes.
They’ve since dine a U-turn, though. Where have you been for the last ten years?