Last night, I, like many thousands across the north tuned into the Nolan Live show. I have taken a particular interest in the loyalist community recently. Having grown up in a mainly nationalist/republican area I never really got the viewpoints from the “other side” and so I thought it would be good to see the Troubles from a different perspective. I have watched several documentaries all expressing the loyalist narrative of the Troubles. Whilst I still could not agree with the views, I at least got a sense that it was the perceived opinions of what unfolded over the years.
Back to the show: it started off promising enough,.Jim Wilson began to state how the loyalist community have engaged in some great rejuvenation and outreach projects which we never hear about. The only stories we hear are the typical stories of extortion, drugs et al. So with all that said, you now have a panel of the loyalist community (with exception of Chris Lyttle) on a live TV show and roughly 30 minutes of airtime to show a different side to the loyalist community than what is portrayed in the media the majority of the time.
What unfolded in the next 20-30 minutes made me despair that we are doomed to relive the same mistakes of the past in some cruel Groundhog Day. Nothing that transpired helped to change the image of loyalism and the loyalist community. The hatred and venom with which members of the same community argued their points amongst themselves was truly a site to behold. There were even the standard token comments regarding Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams and them’uns, just to ensure all the boxes were ticked.
There was absolutely no substance to the debate, Nolan failed to chair it successfully (though I can’t blame him on that one), and it threatened to descend into violence on more than one occasion. This was the chance to show how loyalism has moved on since the Good Friday Agreement. To show everyone that loyalist politics were progressive and that it was the paramilitaries who were giving the whole community a bad name. Instead, we had Jim Wilson failing to acknowledge why the UDA were still in existence, citing rather that they were the defenders of the community. Last time I checked, I have not seen any dissident groupings targeting the loyalist community specifically, so whilst the average Joe would rely on the PSNI for defending the rule of law, this is not sufficient for some. Paramilitaries belong in the past. Until the shadow of these groupings is lifted from these communities we will not see any meaningful progress and unfortunately, going by the events on the show, we are no closer to this happening than we were when the GFA was signed.
Jude,the viciousness of that so called debate last night has shown how far backwards the
PUL community has gone since the ceasefire.
They kept saying about getting more money for their community and that the nationalist republican community get more.
Whenever the N/R get grants they’re put to proper use in the community, whenever any grants go to the OIL community it goes into the pockets of the paramilitaries.
Particularly depressing to hear the bigoted ranting of a female audience member, it might just as well have been footage from thirty years ago. The loyalist community worker(?) just defended the right of the UDA/UVF to exist, to counter the dissident threat.
Also, nice choice of words from gatekeeper Arlene, `a fork in the road`.We all know the loyalist paramilitaries will be the ones blocking off the roads if and when the whole sorry mess kicks off again, allowing the so called respectable unionists the chance to scuttle off. Some of them might pick up fines for illegal obstructions but it will be the hard muscle of the UDA/UVF that cuts the Catholic throats.The `decent` unionists wouldn`t want to get their nice suits covered in blood. Especially taig blood.
They would be laughable if it was not so serious , these people all lived off violence and the threat of violence from the nationalist community which is non existence except for a few criminal groups who in turn suck from the same tit of violence and fear to intimidate the communities in which they live
Jude, sorry I for one didn’t tune into last nights debate; I was just too busy sticking pins in my eyes!
The letsgetalongerists who regularly visit this blog tend to ignore the continued existence of unionist militia. Rather they prefer to opine on the IRA who have ‘left the stage’, about anything and everything.
Some on here have been accused before of making sweeping generalisations about those of a unionist persuasion but the very fact that there really has been no outcry at the continued existence of unionist militia suggests that that community tolerates/wants or indeed values these groups. Just like during the troubles unionist politicians and other representatives paid lip service in condemning unionist terror but very little else. No mass rallies unless it was predominantly aimed at republican violence. No calls on their govt to ‘crush’ unionist terrorism. Nothing.
Could it be that unionists need to keep unionist militia in existence so in any eventuality whereby Irish unification looks to be on the horizon or indeed seriousLy talked about, unionists militia can be instructed to do ‘their thing’? And whilst they are doing their thing, the letsgetalongerists, can pay lip service in condemning their terror thing, but quietly applauding it? After all the unionists militia will be doing, and everyone knows this, the dirty work that will ensure Irish unification is not an option, the dirty work of threatening those who may have the cheek to espouse Irish unity.
David seems surprised by the selection of speakers on last night’s Nolan show, and how things degenerated into a tribal slanging match.
But the last thing Nolan would want is for a panel to speak politely in turn without interruption or uproar – that would do nothing for his ratings.
In that way Nolan is not a stupid man, as he realises that he lives and dies depending on these ratings.
We were told this £1.8m given to the UDA-run Charter NI was to encourage their thugs away from violence.
But this money is not conditional, there is no clause to say that in the event of violence money will be withheld – they can riot and murder and still pocket the money!
We were told that Dee Stitt was judged to be the best person to be CEO of this body – does anyone know what business qualifications or experience he might have, or is it just on his promotion up the thuggery ranks of the UDA?
I’ve got to say that the Nolan”SHOW” was one of the best/worst yet ….or should that be worst/best? It was certainly a winner. I can’t imagine it airing anywhere else except on that weird Freeview “Horror Channel”, mind . I couldn’t imagine anyone else even understanding any of it at all.We’re so used to the lunacy of it that we take it for granted . I’ve already partly written my response elsewhere and it will eventually see print but it really was like one of those old Universal black and whirte movies….you know …”The Tribe that Ate Itself ” or somesuch. Yes ..that’s about it .”The Tribe That Ate Itself” live on television. Horror fans would pay good money to watch a freakshow like this and by the looks of things it’s set to run and run forever….sponsored entirely by our very own government.
Mostly, unionist/loyalist paramilitaries are tolerated, and were always treated with kid gloves, because Britain sees them, covertly, as being the road-block to Irish unity and by default retains a foothold in Ireland. I watched, bemused and embarrassed, as the Loyalist panel and those in the audience once more demonstrated their unwillingness to countenance any thought of real progress. Instead what we were privy too a barrage of insult and self pity. And why do people like Jim Wilson get airtime? That woman at the end really topped it off, the personification of loyalism…………………………..sigh…….
” unionist/loyalist paramilitaries are tolerated”
They are being run by MI5 and Westminster. The RUC even cleaned up after them after they murdered people, hence why so much evidence has gone missing or was deliberately destroyed.
“Jim Wilson began to state how the loyalist community have engaged in some great rejuvenation and outreach projects which we never hear about”
Jim Wilson just didn’t want to accept that the UDA/UVF are still involved in criminality, drug dealing, etc. Is it possible for Jim Wilson or any Loyalist/Unionist (including Arlene Foster and the DUP) to talk about the wrongs of Loyalism/Unionism without casting up the IRA? Republicans had nothing to do with that topic on Nolan but yet SF or the IRA was cast up when Jim Wilson (and the loud woman in the audience) couldn’t answer difficult questions to do with the UVF/UDA.
The key difference here about funding going to different republican groups is that the IRA/INLA isn’t active, any former republican paramilitaries have ditched violence and are working towards a better future. They deserve funding and help. The UDA/UVF on the other hand are STILL active. According to the PSNI they are still drug dealing, intimidating, racketeering and even murdering. So why is the DUP going out of their way to help get huge grants for groups connected to ACTIVE paramilitaries? It would be interesting to see what an investigation into possible links between the UDA and DUP would unearth, very interesting…..
“Nothing that transpired helped to change the image of loyalism and the loyalist community”
In fact, it just reinforced perceptions. It was embarrassing to say the least.
“The hatred and venom with which members of the same community argued their points amongst themselves was truly a site to behold”
Its a trait that we have seen going back decades. Jim Wilson himself gets very aggressive and bad tempered when he is asked difficult questions. His usual retort is to cast up the IRA, a red herring.
“There were even the standard token comments regarding Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams and them’uns, just to ensure all the boxes were ticked”
Yep, was nearly cringing by that point. The woman in the audience was nearly on the verge of screaming: “Them’uns get everythin and we gat nuthin!”.
“This was the chance to show how loyalism has moved on since the Good Friday Agreement”
Most Loyalist paramilitaries agree they only supported GFA so they could get out of prison, not for a brighter future for all. If they all truly supported GFA they would disband, engage politically and contest elections.
“To show everyone that loyalist politics were progressive and that it was the paramilitaries who were giving the whole community a bad name”
Loyalist paramilitaries ditched politics once they realized they had to ditch criminality in order for it to work. Drug money came before the people they claim to “defend”.
” Instead, we had Jim Wilson failing to acknowledge why the UDA were still in existence, citing rather that they were the defenders of the community”
Defending their community from whom? It certainly wasn’t the IRA, only 4% of Loyalist targets were Republican, 11% were other Loyalists and 85% were innocent Catholic civilians. They have murdered over 40 Protestants since their “ceasefire”.
I have to say, the only decent person on that show on Wednesday night was Raymond McCord. He didn’t scream like a banshee, he didn’t get aggressive. Its people like Raymond who truly wants the best for his community and a brighter future for all. He sees the cash that should be going into new housing, new jobs, better schooling, etc in the Unionist working class communities isn’t going there but is ending up in the pockets of paramilitary criminals who are being bribed not to upset the peace process instead of being pursued by the authorities as dissident republicans are.
Could you imagine the uproar if SF was getting million pound grants for groups connected to active dissident republicans? that’s the equivalent of what the DUP is doing today.
Jude I couldn’t be bothered watching anything with loyalists as it is the same shit and no difference from watching them over the years, like on the Frost report back in the early 70s where there sectarianism spewed from their mouths