Why are religious people and believers in God always so angry and argumentative about life? Apparently David Ford has come a cropper within his church for speaking out of turn about gay marriage.I sometimes wonder why anyone would bother joining a club if they didn’t want to abide by the rules.How simple can it be? if you want to join a golf club and they ask that you dress in a certain way….wear the right tie and all that…. then you’ll probably comply, just to get in through that door .How hard can it be? If you don’t want to join in with a bunch of people in a religious belief who have all these interesting rules and arcane notions and ideas , why would you bother at all ? Why would you put yourself through all that hassle arguing the toss about stuff that you can never prove anyway? Those are the kind of questions I always ask myself when the radio airwaves fill up with “experts” quoting chapter and verse as though it was the final word .
Why would David Ford want to be part of a church where they argue at every twist and turn about what the Bible says about this and that ..what God’s take might be on this gay-marriage business….and so on…. and so on ….
Let us tune this racket out just for a moment …….. all that noisesome flac ……take a deep breath and gather our resources….clear the tubes …and our baffled heads….
DF…..Just imagine entering through the corridor to the door of an office with the legend emblazoned in filigreed , ornamental gold -leaf lettering on the frosted window-pane, which reads :
“PK DOG DETECTIVE AGENCY”
In smaller script below …
“Sometimes Psychiatrist, Snake -Oil Salesman and Seller of Peanut -Butter Sandwiches”
You spot a long leather couch in this oasis of calm and your host bids you to relax in the cool of the afternoon…..
PK : Lie back on the couch Mr Ford and try to relax.These are only some simple questions. I’ll just sit back here in the shadows and take some notes.I understand that you’ve recently thrown down the old harness, so to speak ,and are on the cusp of retiring from the political graft and grind.Are you getting ready to kick back and use that All -Ireland Free Bus Pass and get away from it all ….no more driving or worrying about traffic, or even time….put your feet up and finally enjoy life….eh?
DF : Well that was the plan before this business with the elders of my church came up…it’s such an annoyance to end on this sour note.
PK: Oh I see…… There ‘s been some differences of opinion with your colleagues, I take it?
DF: That would be putting it bluntly, i suppose. They object to the idea of gay matrriage.They figure that God might not like the idea of homo-sexuals getting married and they can probably pin-point an exact quote to that effect in their Bibles.
PK : I’m assuming you take great stock from the Bible and your religious beliefs afford you much comfort and add a sense of purpose to your life, Mr Ford?
DF : Ha!!…Well they did up until this point,I have to admit, Mr PK.
PK: If I was to ask you to draw or paint your idea of God , would you be able to do it? I mean…if you had the artistic skills and wherewithal to do that, how would you present your idea of God? I mean would “your” God be a male or female God ….or maybe both at the same time?
DF: Well …I’ve never given it much thought, but I suppose my God would be a male god …you know with a beard and so on….maybe a bit longer than my own, I suppose ….I like that paternalistic idea of a father- figure….a shepherd looking after his flock of lost sheep.
PK: So, your God wouldn’t be a woman then …He’d be a tough , strong leader …a bit like Donald Trump or Nigel Farage…that kind of thing …Someone that people would look up to, follow and believe in , eh?…Cast their vote for and so on…. Someone to draw down some respect then?
DF : Well…I mightn’t go as far as that!. ..Donald Trump!!!?…. Nigel Farage!!!!?….Maybe someone like Abraham Lincoln or Nelson Mandela (with a beard and Morgan Freeman’s voice)might fit the picture a little better.
PK: So it definitely wouldn’t be a female , like Hilary Clinton or Arlene Foster , then?
DF: Well…no …I hadn’t really thought about it too much. I suppose. it’s all in the Bible anyway, as you probably know.
PK: What does it say about God in the Bible?…I mean …did he or she have a sex-life? Maybe that’s too crazy a question….but if we are trying to identify with this creature, it might be valid enough. Some say he was able to perform surgery on Adam, his first creation and make a woman out of a rib….so anything’s possible, eh?. People put such great store in the idea of sexuality , after all. Maybe he or she was bi-sexual or gay , eh? I mean he/she knows about everything….right?…… and he knows just exactly what’s going to happen next year and the year after that, so he must have gathered a lot of knowledge and experience from somewhere.Did you ever wonder where he got all that information from ?….or even where he might have come from him/her self?
DF: I can’t say I’ve ever given it a lot of thought to tell you the truth. I mean , knowing everything is quite a feat…I’ll grant you that…….and creating everything out of nowhere and nothing ,is some skillset, really.Who could begin to figure that lot out except maybe , God himself?
PK: That’s a cute way to look at it alright ….the circular argument…..So you reckon he knows all there is to know and that’s the end of it, eh and we shouldn’t really worry our wee heads about anything else.? Don’t eat from that Tree of Knowledge or it’ll be all bets are off. That’s all there is to it? I mean… he knows all about the mess that the world is in because he created it to be like that in the first place .Who’d know better?He knew we’d screw it all up anyway….way back before he made it all up, but he went ahead and did it anyway ,because it was the only entertainment he could think of; he was bored, so he let us all get on with it, anyway? He knew that they’d crucify Jesus…didn’t he? Jesus said he was God’s son ,so I suppose he might have looked a bit like his old dad, eh….a younger version…say how old was God when all this was happening…I mean in relation to his son? or was he only a methaphorical “son”? a sort of poetical Son of the Earth type of son? you’d never know really.
They were all crazy as a box full of snakes, back then in the bad old days , anyway ,so he knew they’d do it ,didn’t he? He knew the crazy buggers would believe every word Jesus said and string him up and hang him out to dry, anyway. He figured it all out before he did it anyway…didn’t he …Take a look around you …they’re all still as crazy as a box full of frogs !!!! Say…..Do you reckon God might be a bit of a sadistic cove?…You know …a bit crazy too…like all the rest of his creations?
DF: Now that you come to mention it ,Mr PK, you might have a point there.I swear I haven’t had much time to give it a lot of thought.Crazy , eh? …Like father….like son…..I suppose….
PK: …No …I’m not saying that at all.It’s just a notion , really. You’ll have plenty of time to think about it all now ,anyway, DF…I’m just asking what you think , yourself.Your personal take on the situation, if you like … …not all that stuff that your colleagues think…..Do you think that God could have been gay, for example ?…You know , given that he was God and that , he could have been anything he wanted to be , couldn’t he?He could have been like a sea-horse… Maybe he was male, female and gay all at the same time. You know…the way seahorses flip back and forth. People do say , sometimes, that ” God is Love”….. that would certainly cover all the bases , now …wouldn’t it?….Sexually ,anyway…eh? Say….I wonder who God would have sex with , eh ? I wonder… is there a Mrs God or another Mr God ….just thinking out loud there ,DF….not to worry.Just lie back and relax.Would you like Doreen to bring you a coffee?
DF: My head’s beginning to spin ,PK…you would’t have a couple of “Anadin” headache tablets in your desk , would you?
PK: Coming right up, DF….would you like a little glass of something with that, eh?You know you should really read that “Book of Genesis” ,in the Bible , again. The underground cartoonist Robert Crumb published a really great version of it a few years ago.You know the fellow who made up the character “Mr Natural” fifty years ago . His book is full of really great poetry and writing.He copied the whole tale exactly as it was written in the Bible ,in the very same exact way it was translated by Robert Alter and appears in the King James Version. Man….some of those people back then lived for ever and ever….hundreds of years sometimes…..but the whole human family tree is there …right from the beginning of time ….every little thing…right there…all those crazy names …begetting this and that forever…it’s hard going at times ,I’ll grant you …. but he’s left nothing out…even all the sex and murders and so on…I think you might enjoy it.He’s some artist , that Crumb. I have to say though that it might shock the children or the more genteel ladies and gentlemen of your circle. The illustrated cold truth is really not for the faint -of -heart.
Tell you what …I’ll have a copy for you when you come back for your next appointment.In the meantime, try and relax a bit more ….and maybe join a different club, eh? See you next week, then, DF. This will all blow over and the world will look a whole lot different with your feet up and a cool glass in your hand. Take care…..
“Why are religious people and believers in God always so angry and argumentative about life? ” Must correct this, Harry. I myself believe in God, and a more agreeable, sweet-natured, less contrary/argumentative human being you wouldn’t find in three days’ walking. I could elaborate on this at greater length, but my religion forbids me to be boastful….
Aw shucks, Jude …I was just about to get Doreen to book you in for an appointment ….would 3.45 pm on a Friday afternoon suit?
Modesty and honesty – how rare!
Not in me. I’m never done being modest and honest. If I had as many hot dinners as I have been…No , wait….
You’re right Harry, don’t throw your pearls before swine and if they refuse to listen, wipe the dust from your feet and walk away.
Did you know that the wee piggie is a very intelligent and sociable creature, Dominic …and the closest in physicality to our own good selves …sharing much similarity in skin and organ tissue and even DNA …Let’s hear it for the pigs , I say!! Give the swine a break!
I do love a sausage and a bit of bacon I must say along with my eggs and pondering philosophical questions about which came first
That’s the ticket, Dominic…..we might be related but we;ve gotta show ’em who’s top hot dog…turn up that frying -pan…..and throw another banger on the barbie!
“Why are religious people and believers in God always so angry and argumentative about life?”
Loaded question.
We all need a crutch to get through this vale of tears, harry. You have your family, your Malbec, your weird music and your bees. Be kind to those less fortunate who need to believe ……… in something.
Oh… I understand perfectly fiosrach.There should be no harm in it at all. I’m already planning for the arrival of Santa Claus for the Golden Granddaughter….boots on the roof and all that.It just makes me wonder when the grown -ups don’t see the holes in the story, though…..and what’s this about weird music, by the way?
Rumour has it that you’re big into Howling Wolf. Especially after a jeroboam of the buttermilk. Mixed with honey, of course.
Aw ,Howling Wolf’s only a little weird…You want to hear what Tom Waits is doing with the blessed bones of Captain Beefheart, these days, fiosrach…..
Paddykool
First of all there is no ‘hole’ in the Santa Claus story – it is a perfectly reasonable, well-told (usually) and delightful story. And the reason, of course, that there is no hole in the story, is because those who tell the story are the story. In other words, I am Santa until my children are old enough to know that I am not Santa, and then they, in turn, will tell the same story, perhaps even more creatively than I, and will become the character too.
The ‘God story’ is different. None of us are gods, however, not of any kind – we are material beings: atoms, molecules…, on that we agree; but oddly, and however complex, this materialism does not provide us with answers to what we know we also are: loving, moral, personal beings.
That is where the ‘hole’ lies.
One might even say it is holy, so to speak.
“Altruism”….. PF…That ‘s the boyo , you’ll see throughout the animal kingdom….a wee quirky oddness that’ll have dogs lying down with cats instead of eating them…. and so on.. By the way…I completely believe in Santa Claus, personally….This one i wrote for Jude about a year ago that has since fallen off the backend….
https://paddykool2.wordpress.com/stories-and-scribblings/do-you-believe-in-miracles/
Sorry, PK, not so fast.
All you have done to to say, “Altruism!” You haven’t explained anything.
Not only have you already assumed that, “dogs lying down with cats instead of eating them” is ‘good’ rather than ‘bad, you have failed to explain why one is ‘good’ and the other ‘not good’, you have failed to provide a moral framework for making such decisions, and you have failed to explain what it means for humans (material impersonal beings, remember) to have what we call a personality.
Sorry, but you’re not even close to explaining any of that.
Basically, you’re answer boils down to, “I know why we’re altruistic – it’s because we’re altruistic.”
You have assumed human moral standards in order to explain human moral standards.
Are you seriously expecting me to set down an essay on altruism as i settle down to eat my dinner PF..? I imagine that altruism is a biological function…possibly pleasure -based, given that it is seen throughout the animal kingdom. There would be much argument in humans as to whether or not it is an ego-based behaviour too…can it be really truly altruistic if the giver gets some pleasure from the act, and all that? In other words the pleasure is a reward of a kind so the giver isn’t really doing it out of the goodness of his own stout heart. There’s something in it for him.Even when it is seen in animals there’s no real evidence that it’s done for reasons of love.There might be some hidden reward involved.For example those little fish which swim into the mouths of bigger fish to clean away parasites from the host fish’s teeth without getting eaten themselves.There might be no love , as such , at all …just a mutual arrangement which suits both parties….I suppose you could call that the altruistic politics of life ….now …back to my dinner….
“Are you seriously expecting me to set down an essay on altruism as i settle down to eat my dinner PF..?”
Not at all. I am merely pointing out that saying, “Altruism,” does not provide an answer to explain the human characteristics of love, morality, justice, ascetic appreciation, personality.
You seemed, very strongly to imply that you had an answer; but the ‘hole’ in atheist story remains.
Perhaps when you’ve finished your dinner, you’ll look it up.
Otherwise, you’ll have to take this whole moral (and so on) thing on the basis of mere ‘belief’ – and that would put an atheist in a tricky position.
Don’t choke!
I have to say that when you laid down your original bleak two-word ,one-liner…. “loaded question”….in response to a cut and paste…“Why are religious people and believers in God always so angry and argumentative about life?”…………….
……that you had no real intention of getting into any detailed conversations about anything specific, which is why the “altruism” quip popped out in passing . It was equally flip. I thought you wanted a quick response, in kind.I had not assumed that anyone would be interested in a long explanation about the experiences and evidence seen throughout all animal life…the human animal included ,about alruism in society … in action.My point was that altruism does not necessarily equate with “morality”….it could as easily be a business deal between individuals , each benifitting from the association.
On that basis I have made no reference to “morality” of any kind. You say that altruism does not provide an answer to explain the human characteristics of love , morality, justice, ascetic appreciation, personality and so on.You then go on to say that I (me)…”very strongly (to )imply that you had an answer; but the ‘hole’ in atheist story remains”.
I’ll clear up that last bit first.I am not implying that there is a “hole “in the atheist story at all . i think that the atheist has no need to explain a non-belief. it is simply that…as it states……”a non-belief “. A “belief” on the other hand , requires some explanation as to how the belief in something unknowable , might in fact ,become known. That requires evidence…a lot of evidence.In place of evidence, what we usually are confronted with is the bottom-line of “faith”….truly ,a belief in the unknown or the unknowable.That, to me me , is where the “hole” lies.
Like I say, that “hole”might work for a lot of people but it doesn’t work for many others and many of those who have ,and will approach the subject with a scientific or exploratory mindset, which requires explanation and accessible answers ,have reached different conclusions which satisfy their current understanding.That’s how people really are. Some would rather not think too much about it at all. Sometimes much of that hangs on teachings learned in childhood and often those teachings are accepted as fact when they are not. Some people are simply not inquisitive anyway and don’t care to think about any of it.
As for “morality”.That’s a subject that we could spend a long time discussing…just as we could spend a long time discussing the idea of what a “sin” is. Is the idea of” morality” a genetic thing or is it a learned behaviour?In other words is morality wrapped up in how we fit in to a specific society and how we might follow those tight societal rules , laid down from our hearths and in our early schooling.? Do we learn how to behave from our parents , our siblings and our friends and associates and then begin to understand our place in the “pecking” order, if you like? To rub along with our fellows means to abide by a set of laws and rules which have to be abided by.You might call that a morality.You’ll see that in every society right across the world , but sometimes each group or nation’s sense of “morality” might be very different to another. In other animals besides humans you’ll see similar “moralities”…or rules, if you like.You’ll see it in troops of monkeys and in packs of wolves .You’ll see it in the fish in the sea.There’ll always be some creature which wants to assume the alpha role too. You might even say that every creature alive has an individual “personality” defined by its strengths and physical weaknesses within a group.
Within all of that there is room for ascetic appreciation, justice and morality.You might say that any creature that does not believe that they were specifically created for any kind of reason can still stand on its hind legs and appreciate exactly what it has on earth. It can still bask in the beauty and glow of a perfect sunset or marvel at the wonder of the moon and the planets , without worrying whether or not there might be a purpose to any of it at all.I personally do not believe there is , but I think earth is a wonderful and possibly the most unique place that ever existed.
The long and short of it is that people can actually believe anything they care to believe in , just as they once believed that thunder was caused by the God Thor or that the planet Mars was the god of war in the skies. It’s difficult to maintain such beliefs when meteorologists have long-since figured out that the winds and rain are not actually caused by a god and that Mars, is in fact, a planet that humans are presently attempting to colonise.
“I have to say that when you laid down your original bleak two-word ,one-liner…. “loaded question”….in response to a cut and paste”
Sorry, Pk, but this business of complaining about a one line response doesn’t cut it. The question was loaded, and remains so.
“On that basis I have made no reference to “morality” of any kind.”
Which would be odd given that it was a response to my comments about human morality. That, and these debates about human morality usual begin with animal altruism. (something you go on to link once again.)
“I’ll clear up that last bit first.I am not implying that there is a “hole “in the atheist story at all .”
I know. I’m the one saying that; you’re still missing my point. The point is repeated again below.
“Atheism is a non-belief.”
That’s a lame answer. And you know it, or should. There not being a God or gods is one of the frameworks you work within, and that means you are in a position where you have to explain humanity and what it means to be human on the basis or materialism alone.
“In place of evidence, what we usually are confronted with is the bottom-line of “faith””
And this is one of the reasons you think there is a hole in the Christian faith – because you fail to realise that “faith” does not equate to “belief without evidence.”
“and will approach the subject with a scientific or exploratory mindset”
Again, faith does not preclude either accepting science or exploration as a basis of knowledge.
” often those teachings are accepted as fact when they are not. ”
How do you know they’re not? Don’t say, “because they’re based faith” because that would be more circular reasoning.
And I’m afraid that the paragraph beginning, “As for “morality”, doesn’t explain anything. As I said in the last comments yesterday, you are assuming all of these concepts in order to try to explain them.
You’re not yet following the point. You are all of these things, but atoms do not explain them. Materialism has no explanatory power in this case. Observation is not an explanation.
“The long and short of it is that people can actually believe anything they care to believe in ”
I doubt you actually believe that. And it’s easily demonstrated.
The point is that people really do believe anything and everything .How can you doubt that when you look at the thousands of belief- systems people across the earth have embraced?Look , I’m not arguing with you on this one .I really do believe people are capable of believing just about anything because they actually do…. and I also believe that we are animals just like all the other animals on the planet. We might think we are special animals and more sophisticated than other creatures but our sophistication can easily be disproven too. We are blood and bone creatures with all the appetites and needs that every other creature has within its environment.
People have a choice to believe in a supernatural aspect , of sorts ,to their existence. I think that is really a by-product of how our brains evolved and is how the the imaginative part of us works .It is the part of us which invents arts beyond ourselves. I don’t happen to be one of those people who believe in ghosts or an afterlife , for example ….or come to that , visitations by aliens from other planets.Part of me believes that we are very alone in the universe at this specific moment in time and a bit of an anamoly too.. . I do believe that the earth will exist for a finite and relatively very short…(comparative to the age of the universe).. span of time and will eventually die away completely , taking all our wonderful esoteric ideas away with it, for once and all….and there’ll eventually be nothing left to discuss.Nada..That said , this is a wonderful place and we should appreciate it and enjoy it until that moment.
To tell you the truth, I have no real problem with that end happening and hopefully it will not happen within my own lifespan. That’s about all I can personally hope for . It doesn’t actually worry me in so much as I have a fair idea how long my human body will live at max and I’m probably well into the last third of my lifespan anyway. All the evidence of that is right there in front of my eyes and in my genes. I’ve left a few markers for my future , of course,in the form of my children and they are already producing grandchildren so I’m happy that some part of me will go on….even though my physical body has already rebuilt itself many times already throughout my lifetime.The fact is that it has a built-in cut out switch and nothing can change that.
When I look around me and back into the past , that is about all any of us can do ,or has done.Now , if anyone wished for more than that, that’s fair enough ,but I can’t really see how that might work at all.Thoughts like that have had humans imagining reincarnation or rising from the dead since they were able to imagine anything. The truth is that in the real world ,none of that stuff actually happens except in the fiction we write or in the films and stories we make up to entertain ourselves. I don’t think that there is simply a hole in the Christian faith , i think that all religious faith is a hope for more of what we already have …(or a better life if we have had a bad one…)now …If that gives some solace to some people , that’s well and good and you can’t argue with that , but it does bring up some very interesting questions which are difficult to answer rationally. By not believing in any of it , I do not have those puzzles to figure out.By not believing in god , for example , it leaves any religions which might anchor on that specific belief , null and void for me .It’s therefore ,simply not my worry.
Simply put …by not believing in a god , I do not believe in an afterlife, but nobody’s actually stopping you or anyone else deciding to believe in anything you want to .I’m sure you have that figured out for yourself already, eh?
PK
I’m not asking you to believe in god/s, I’m asking you to explain why you think we are more than material.
And on the matter of people believing in anything, yes, people do believe in all sorts of things, and we pronounce some of them immoral.
Demonstrating that you do not think it is OK for people to believe whatever they want.
I actually don’t think you have taken on board anything I have written.Either that or you willfully ignore what I am saying very plainly.I am stating categorically that we are no more than material beings made of carbon and various stardust, That is all we are.I can say no more and don’t believe I need to.Myself and anyone who knows and cares about me understand that completely.
PK
I’m certainly not wilfully ignoring you, but we are talking passed each other.
I am pointing out that the problem with stating we are no more than carbon is that you have to account for the appearance of non-material characteristics. That’s the only main point I’ve been making from the beginning.
Your only two options are, that impersonal carbon has given rise to personality (and that’s very difficult to explain, if not impossible), or that personalities are simply a happy illusion, even then there are problems.
You have yet to tell me what you think of this.
If you still think you don’t have to say any more then you don’t see the problem of humanity.
Yet you still reserve the right, it appears, to condemn religious people as angry with life. And that’s odd, and untenable.
Had I said the same about atheists I would quite correctly be called out on it.
It’s very simple.Personality or uniqueness is not the sole property of human beings.If you have ever bonded with a pet ….say a dog or a favourite cat you woul quickly realise that they have unique personalities .They are not all the same.
“Personality or uniqueness is not the sole property of human beings.If you have ever bonded with a pet ”
I never said is was; and as I’ve had a dog as a pet I know exactly what you mean.
You’re still missing the point.
If you consider the personality to be real and valuable (and you seem to), then on the basis of materialism we have to give an account of how impersonal atoms can give rise to personal (as having personalities) creatures.
This PK, whether we are atheists or people of faith is far from simple.
Impersonal to personal. Non-moral to moral. Material to non-material.
That is the dilemma.
And then we have to *explain* language.
I meant to get back to you PF about the development of language, but it is a huge subject and there is much speculation as to how those vocal skills developed initially .Given that this happened over very many thousands of years and long before we figured out how to make marks and write and understand what these linked abstractions meant, we can mostly only speculate.You might find some of these ideas on current thinking interesting , though.All very fascinating , I think…I would start here…There’s plenty to get your teeth into…. …https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_language
PF …I really hope that you don’t worry about this stuff as much as you appear to. I approach it all in a light-hearted manner personally and don’t worry too much about any of it.I am perfectly happy with my version of reality.
PK
I’m not worried about this stuff at all.
I just enjoy the debate.
Although I do also think that the Christian God idea has explanatory power that mere materialism does not.
Thanks for taking the time.
PK
Thanks for the link.
I admit to already knowing we (i.e. humanity) are speculating about the origin of language.
My wider point is that we can only attempt to explain what language is by the use of language.
Think that through.
Well of course PF..that goes without saying….We had to develop our mental skills before we could figure any of it out …There are probably still many of people who can neither read or write even now…and the majority have only a slight grasp on the glory of language in any case, eh?
What’s he building in there?
Exactly …and then some…ha ha !! Lovely stuff!!
here’s NI’s version of Genesis (KJV, of course, what else?)
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2013/09/19/in-the-beginning-was-the-empire/
I think you’ve covered all the bases there, ben.Well -constructed and accurate too…
“i think that the atheist has no need to explain a non-belief. it is simply that…as it states……”a non-belief ”
I beg to differ; Atheism is not a non-belief, it is a belief that there is no god.
Not believing in Santa requires, for example, a reason for not believing in Santa – I’ve already explained mine: I know that I am Santa.
Christian faith similar in that there are reasons to believe rather than reasons not to believe; either way, however, we need reasons. On another point, faith, or trust (because faith and trust are synonymous), are better words to use, and both are evidence based. I exercise faith (or in popular terms, belief) because there is a reasonable case for doing so.
Likewise, in considering the Christian God to be true in a way that other gods are not true, I do this because this kind of believing and not believing is reasonable.
Evidence and reasons are everywhere.
PK and PF I enjoyed reading your debate thank you.
PK
I understand you believe that we are simply another species of animal on this planet but do you not also perhaps notice that there is a uniqueness to the human race that isn’t exactly replicated in another species?
Many point to are complex processes of thought, reason, morality etc, as simply a product of our evolutionary path, but if a highly developed intelligence is such a blatant evolutionary/competive advantage over species and has allowed us to dominate this planet so completely then why has no other animal reached our level of intelligence?
Thanks for sticking with the chat Scott.There’s no doubt that we humans as a species have dominated the planet.Let’s face it though…we have only been on this blue marble for a very short time in real terms. To put us completely in the picture, dinosaurs romped about on the earth for a good 170 million years before the KT event wiped them out almost completely , leaving only a few species such as birds to even hint at their passing…That’s 170 million years of dominance as a species.We’ve been here as a evolved species only some mere 200,000 years…although less evolved forms of humans have been around for about six million years. What we call our civilization has only been dated at about 6000 years. You might say we haven’t really been around a very long time in real terms and the chances are slim that we might beat the dinosaurs record.
Then there’s the idea that we are the most intelligent species.You’d have to argue about the meaning of intelligence and adaptability to our environment. There’s no doubt that we are creative toolmakers and skilled artisans. We can mould carbon and the elements into all kinds of shapes to make our lives more interesting but at bottom we are still a war-making ape with grand ideas about our place in the scheme of things.We’ve colonised the earth and now we want to colonise other planets in space…grand ideas indeed! .We think and argue about those things , but are we the most ntelligent creature on the planet. We are of a kind in this moment of time but you might say that dolphins in the ocean have adapted better and more intelligently to their particular environment….. or bees…yes i’m always banging on about bees, but they’ve been around longer than most other creatures …human beings included ,and they really are the “intelligent” fulcrum around which all life on earth spins.They want to colonise too…and that need is still within them To study how they feed the planet from the bottom up ..and have an effect on all living things, in a chain from the plants to the feeding of every creature, while existing in a world, seen in different colours and in different radio waves than we do , is a revelation.Are they an” intelligent “species? You’d better believe they are. They live in a world without a heaven or a hell….just life as it really is …..shining down from the sun.
Thanks Scott,
One of the dangers in this kind of internet debate is not only that we speak passed each other, but also that it risks becoming unnecessarily heated. I hope it wasn’t that.
What heat, PF? Ha ha.This is a conversation ,( hopefully ) between sentient creatures. with their own points of reference…and not a row in any way..