There’s no situation so appalling that you can’t spot, if you peer through the gloom hard enough, a chink of light. Since last June, people here and elsewhere have been wringing their hands and rending their garments over the dumber-than-dumb decision by Britain to quit the EU. That decision has plunged millions into a gloomy state emotionally and financially. And despite claims of a UK recovery post-Brexit, it’s going to get worse.
A degree in economics isn’t needed to see what has happened. Having experience trade where there’s unimpeded access to an area containing of 500 million people, the removal of that area and those people is going to be traumatic. That seems so staggeringly obvious, it’s hard to understand how the British people – OK, the English and Welsh people – convinced themselves it’d be a good idea to walk away from a market of 500 million.
Easier to understand is that the EU referendum was the product of Tory-party infighting. David Cameron, beset by Cabinet critics, fearful of the rise of UKIP, gambled the family farm that a referendum would bring him a win and crush the critics. Alas, he lost the referendum and shortly afterwards, his job. But Cameron is going to fall back into a soft featherbed of pensions and personal wealth. Millions of others will lose their jobs and endure hardship, with no financial featherbed to make it more bearable.
The withdrawal argument was sold to the people of England and Wales on the grounds that it’d give Britain control over her own borders and she’d be able to keep all those immigrants at bay. The notion that hordes of Johnny Foreigners were at the gates, eager to steal British jobs and damage the social and cultural fabric of Britain was preached by Boris, Nigel, Michael et al, and simple-minded people bought it. And they’re still buying it – listen to any phone-in or watch any TV debate and it’s frightening how many British people still live in that world where Britannia rules the waves and must repel the destabilizing hordes.
Which is a pity. Because the immigrants that are presented as ogres are an essential part of Britain. For two notable reasons: (i) because British society, particularly in the area of health, would simply cease functioning without foreign workers; and (ii) because if Britain is to have the access to the Common Market, she’s going to have to abandon this vision of a Britain free from pesky foreigners. As in ordinary life, so in political life: you have to give as well as take. If you’re expecting access to that 500-million market, the price you’ll pay is opening your borders to foreigners. And in any negotiations, Britain is bargaining from a position of weakness. The brutal truth is that Britain has voted herself out of a club into which she is now desperately trying to regain access, while at the same time refusing to concede on the immigration question.
Last week I spoke with a businessman in the centre of Belfast who buys some 50% of his merchandise from Europe. The slump of the pound alone has meant that, suddenly, everything from Europe is costing him a lot more. Brexit may, as the British prime minister has said, mean Brexit. Unfortunately Brexit also means financial disaster. Especially if you live in Ireland, where the First Minister in the north hails Brexit as some sort of victory, while the Taoiseach in the south is concerned, not for us in the north, but for his constituency in the south. Except we can make common cause with Scotland, we’re on our own.
And the chink of light that I spoke of at the start of this article? Two chinks, actually. One, there’s a good chance the north will look on enviously as the south benefits from continued EU membership. And two, at least some unionists are beginning to see that only one model makes sense, and that’s the one where Ireland is a single economic unit.
Economics is a stern but effective teacher.
PS. If you haven’t seen it already, you might want to spend fourteen minutes listening to this young person talking about Britain’s Brexit decision. What a pity that more of our young people – and older people – weren’t as committed and clear as she is…Bain sult as – Enjoy.
This young lady is a total breath of fresh air.
Pity Arlene cannot lead – but just looks over her shoulder towards the past – yet her Electorate are going to get wasted economically , while she dithers and waits for her queen to save her !
Bhain mé sult ar leith as Súile Gorma, a Mháistir Ionúin Blog !
Alas, tis a different, less effin eloquent Lass one must endure, going forward.
TIOCFAIDH ARLENE
The UK’s fav Foster child adores Brexit
Pouring scorn like some Roaring Megsit
On Londonderry walls
No more cannon balls?
From her boring bore will Easter 16 eggs it.
shows what she knows when she has to have a chain with her name on it around her neck,to remind her of her own name.remoaners like her are only creating more uncertainty and then moaning again about not knowing whats happening.she even pulls yer woman who got shot out of the cupboard for a bit of effect,when she started throwing the racist word about you knew she had lost the plot.
What an appalling vista. In England, the judges who ruled against the government are being condemned as “enemies of the people,” the MP for Sleaford and North Hykeham in Lincolnshire has stepped down with immediate effect as he can no longer live with being labelled a Tory and Dominic Grieve, a former Tory Conservative attorney general has expressed concerns about the development of a “mob psyche” given the hostile response to the Brexit ruling in the media.
In Scotland, Ms Sturgeon said:
“The ruling was hugely significant and underlines the total chaos and confusion at the heart of the UK government”.
In Wales, the High Court ruling has been welcomed by Plaid Cymru’s Brexit spokesperson:
“Plaid Cymru welcomes the High Court ruling that the UK Government must gain Parliamentary approval before triggering Article 50, and begin the process of leaving the European Union. It is ironic that after months of rhetoric around making Parliament sovereign, the UK Government wanted to bypass the Parliament on a decision of such importance.”
In Ireland, AIB chairman, Richard Pym expressed his thoughts to a tee at the international congress of the Association of European Journalists in Kilkenny with his comments on Britain’s decision to exit the EU following a campaign led by “a group of chancers and opportunists”.
Money is still talking, the pound is gaining against the dollar, however, it is also talking about an election.
“Countries”? Except they are no longer countries.
Although that pales into insignificance in the context of the almost last sentence in the clip:
“The masses should not be allowed to vote on matters of grave economic consequence, because that is just asking for trouble.”
Now, what was that about gerrymandering? (which was wrong, before you ask)
But if that is what passes for contemporary ideas of national independence, national pride, and national democracy, oh, yes, and the provisions of:
“religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities (for) all its citizens, and (the pursuit of) happiness and prosperity (for) the whole nation and of all its parts, (and) cherishing all of the children of the nation equally,”
then you’re welcome to it… but it isn’t freedom, it isn’t liberty and it isn’t traditional Irish sentiment.
Give me Pearse and Connolly any day of the week.
The young lady was articulate and honest in her views. It’s that simple. It was a clear-headed look into the abyss.It’s the same thing an awful lot of clear-headed young people have done . You might say that she had it nailed perfectly and had her information at her fingertips , lined up in a logical way. While billy might call that “bemoaning” and sneakily pretend that because she was wearing jewellery with her name on it she didn’t know the time of day (a poor excuse for a debate, billy )…In fact it was very obvious that she knew exactly what time of day it was…no question… and would have no problem arguing that point. Some of us see it for what it is. The facts are that the Brexit was sold on misinformation , fear and lies and we’ll all find that there’s no way around that particular steaming pile of horse-shit in the end.
That is exactly why there is so much prevarication now. Far from knowing what to do next , they also know exactly the mess that they are about to step into . The great public have been sold a pup. The only possible deal we can ever make now will leave everyone poorer than before . No question.We’ll have less control and well have to pay for the privilege for that too. It is that simple and everyone who can read and understand knows that already.There’ll be plenty of noise and thunder but the UK will be the poorer for it .Our problem locally , is that we have no real influence on the UK, so we’ll get the crumbs from the meal when it’s all over.
There really is something to be said for not allowing the public to vote on something so spectacularly important when they actually haven’t a clue what it will mean for them. This Brexit is forever and it doesn’t matter whether or not you understand the economics of it or not….which most people patently do not know… it will still pull everyone into the same stupid hole.Am I saying that there are a lot of stupid people out there? you bet your life , I am .Call a spade a spade .Would you trust open -heart surgery to someone who catches rats for a living ? No you wouldn’t . Should the public be given a crude choice on something as important as this when most of them haven’t a clue? That is why you hear all the talk of racism and fear.The majority of people of every colour, creed or race get along just fine and work hard and contribute to society. They don’t come over and “steal” jobs. There are other poor dumb souls who want to blame them for the rain falling from the sky because they know no better.
Paddy
Let’s consider this not being allowed to vote argument step by step.
“There really is something to be said for not allowing the public to vote on something so spectacularly important when they actually haven’t a clue what it will mean for them.”
Any vote for any member of any council, Assembly or Parliament is an important one. Each of these institutions has an impact on how we life and prosper. In short, all votes a “spectacularly important”.
Secondly, how would you determine who has sufficient knowledge to exercise a vote? Do you propose to replace to a power to rule based on class and wealth with one related to level of education? And how would that work anyway. I’m educated to (what is commonly know as) higher level. Well, whoopee! Good for me! – The greatest lesson I ever learned was not that I had attained a BA, but that I still had much to learn, and that there are others much smarter than I am. Not only that, but ‘education’ (however important) is not necessarily an indication of ability, wisdom or common sense.
Should only economists or financiers vote on economic issue? (Obviously not)
Should only politicians vote on matters of State? (Again, no)
There is absolutely no merit in the proposal that votes should be limited according to knowledge, wealth, experience, or any other discriminant.
It is most appalling that ‘liberals’ (who are often less than liberal, and who have only shifted the focus of their self-righteousness exclusion to new groups of people – mostly, the religious, the poor, the less-well educated and right of centre), should argue for (and this is a common place argument now) a restriction of the right to vote.
One person one vote? Not in the Liberal mind.
Too many seek power, be it by government or by some of means, by restricting the democratic process – and it is dangerous.
A number of years ago, Tony Benn writing in the Guardian and in defence of liberty and democracy said this:
“But the more influential government (and I might add, those who seek to govern) becomes the more it is essential that it respects our liberties. Its obligation must be to serve the people, not rule over them. We have to insist on this principle. It is not a matter of left or right, Tory or Labour.”
The whole article is here:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/27/surveillance-idcards
He understands.
In contrast, the Liberal Left ought to be embarrassed by their more recent rhetoric.
Irish Republicans who share their views, ought to be ashamed.
PF, I believe you may be an ecclesiastical man? In which case I would respectfully suggest that socialism ( which you so obviously abhor ) is to my mind, if practised well, a mirror image of Christianity. You have intimated that you’re world view would be right of centre. Is that not just a disguise for selfishness? Forgive me if I’ve got that all wrong. Fred.
Freddie
I think I should also say that in my comments above I criticised those who said that some of our fellow citizens aren’t smart enough to vote; I criticised the ‘liberals’ for tending to exclude others – mostly, the religious, the poor, the less-well educated and right of centre), and criticised them for seeking a restriction of the right to vote.
I also quoted from the Irish Proclamation, and in support of those ideals:
“religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities (for) all its citizens, and (the pursuit of) happiness and prosperity (for) the whole nation and of all its parts, (and) cherishing all of the children of the nation equally,”
This doesn’t really amount to abhorring socialism, surely?
Freddie
There are a few things which should be said by way of response.
The first is this, my distain for what I have termed the ‘Liberal Left’ relates primarily to (1) their expressed antipathy for democracy; (2) their moral hypocrisy (tarring others while ignoring their own prejudice and taking shelter in their own [often vast] wealth and power while denying it to others; and (3) their dismissal via shouting down of all who disagree with them. I don’t care much for their anti-nation, anti-family and anti-tradition stance either.
The second is that Christianity isn’t easily squeezed into the political mould of this world, and in my view ought not to be.
Thirdly, socialism isn’t all bad, but like most movements is often corrupted by a quest for power, and nowhere have I said I abhorred it. My comments were quite tightly focussed on the response to the EU and democracy. You are conflating socialism for the benefit of all with modern liberal elitism – they are different things altogether.
We can also say that both political left-leaning, and political right-leaning have their own faults. And following that, one might be ‘right’ of centre in relation to traditional views on family, morality and nationhood, while being ‘left’ of central on social policy.
These things are not mutually exclusive; unfortunately it is the spirit of the age which makes them so. As I said to Ryan on another thread, democracy has become a matter of winning an losing rather than consensus – and that is bad for all of us.
You will also note that I quoted Tony Benn – not someone known for his right-wing thinking!
You make some great points here, PF, in a very well argued and erudite fashion. Well done, sir!
PF, I appreciate you’re response as always. F
Gearoid, Freddie,
Thank you for your kind words.
“The notion that hordes of Johnny Foreigners were at the gates, eager to steal British jobs and damage the social and cultural fabric of Britain was preached by Boris, Nigel, Michael et al, and simple-minded people bought it.”
I think this is part of the problem in Britain and Europe as a whole, this attitude of dismissing the legitimate concerns from people who are worried about immigration. Insulting people or calling them “racists” or whatever because they worry about the effects of immigration has led to Brexit. It may even lead to the Netherlands leaving the EU, and Hungary, and many others. If you think that people will simply sit by and allow unrestricted access to their country for foreigners then that’s just silly. I despise the likes of Boris Johnson but I also dislike the EU. The EU as a project has already failed, it’s not failing because of Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage, its failing because the vast majority of its aims/policies are not supported by the European people. The EU needs to reform itself if it wants to survive, it will not survive as a political union.
Its already too late for keeping England/Wales in the EU but if the EU wants to stay together then its time for European Leaders and Pro-EU supporters to do one thing: Listen to the concerns of people and stop dismissing them. Its led to Brexit, it’ll eventually lead to the whole EU collapsing. When the EU was dictating to Ireland about Austerity, Sinn Fein’s Pro EU Leader Gerry Adams said on RTE radio “the EU needs told where to go”. If you think the EU Austerity demands were bad, you haven’t seen anything yet when the EU wants tax powers.
“For two notable reasons: (i) because British society, particularly in the area of health, would simply cease functioning without foreign workers; and (ii) because if Britain is to have the access to the Common Market, she’s going to have to abandon this vision of a Britain free from pesky foreigners.”
Britain already has over 60 MILLION people, surely they could find some people to work as doctors, nurses, etc? Yes, foreigners do wonderful work, especially in Health but to say Britain (or any other country) cant produce their own doctors, nurses, etc is simply lies. What’s not spoke about is the countries these foreign doctors, nurses, etc are coming from, many come from 3rd World countries which are in DESPERATE need of good doctors, nurses, etc Is it really moral to accept these doctors knowing places like Zambia, etc need them more than us? especially when Britain, Ireland, etc can produce our own?….
But why does Britain have to open her border to have access to the common market? I know that’s the case but why? the EU has done free trade deals with non-EU countries and I don’t think any of them required those countries allowing unrestricted access to EU migrants…..
The truth is there’s a big wide world outside of the EU, the Universe doesn’t begin and end at the borders of the European Union. Don’t get me wrong, I would support the EU if it was simply an ECONOMIC block, not a political one.
When it comes to Britain, I care just as much about Britain as Britain cares about little old me. My concern is Ireland, all 32 counties and ALL its people (yes, that may include our MT) and I honestly don’t see the EU as a good thing for us in its current format. Yes, having access to 500 million people is a good thing but not at the expense of our country and people being under the thumb of Berlin/Brussels, don’t forget about how they reacted when we were forced under extreme austerity. Don’t forget what the EU has done and is STILL doing to Greece and its proud people. The people that produced such legendary men like Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, etc and has a rich and proud history that contributed so much to Human Civilisation were humiliated by the EU. I wouldn’t be surprised if the EU forced the Greeks to sell the Acropolis of Athens…..in fact, I actually think Greek politicians did, I remember reading something about it, I’ll have to check……
Its certainly correct to say that Britain will be in economic limbo for the foreseeable future and it may even lead to the break up of the United Kingdom but those are issues unique to Britain.
Yes, Brexit has made a United Ireland more likely but just because the EU is now anti-British, that doesn’t mean they are Pro-Irish…..
PS: I’m sorry for typing this comment so late but Ireland has beaten New Zealand in the Rugby and I was gearing up for the game all day and then celebrating long after! What a week for Irish sport! U16 Ireland win the Victory Shield on Friday by beating Scotland, Wales and NI, then Ireland beat New Zealand comfortably in Chicago and then Paddy Barnes/Jamie Conlan won their boxing matches too. yeeeeeoooooo! Ireland vs Austria next week in a World Cup Qualifier, could it be the cherry on top? We’ll see! #COYBIG
We’re always being told that we face economic meltdown as a result of the “Brexit” vote, yet states which are still in the E.U., and likely to remain so, are in a much worse state, largely as a result of their membership of the eurozone. We’re always being told that young people have no future outside the E.U., yet youth unemployment in some E.U. states has reached 50%, in Italy over 30%, in France over 25%. If the E.U. was a roaring economic success story I could understand all the pessimism re “Brexit,” but it clearly isn’t. Most of the large number of young people who have left Ireland in the last few years to seek work haven’t headed for this supposed utopia, but to places like Australia and Canada.