Hush. The President of Ireland is talking. Yes, I can hear him clearly. He’s saying he wants philosophy to be promoted in society and in schools so that we can create a “reflective atmosphere in the classrooms, in our media, in our public space”.
He made this suggestion on Philosophy Day, which was yesterday (whaddyamean, ya were watching rugby?). President Michael D Higgins was holding a reception for Philosophy Ireland, an organization that aims to promote philosophy in schools and society.
What a good idea! It’s a particularly good idea in what is currently referred to as a “post-truth” era, and gratifying to hear the President put his weight behind it. We could start, I’d suggest, with the language of politics.
For example, take the title “President of Ireland.“ If someone told you about a person called President of the United States, you’d assume the reference was to a man or woman elected by the people of the US, who then had a key role to play in the life of that region. In our case, of course, the President of Ireland is elected by three-quarters of the people of Ireland, and has to make trips to an area called Northern Ireland to reach the remainder of the Irish people living in Ireland. Something of a gap, then, between the title and the reality.
We could then move on to consider the notion of the Republic of Ireland, which is neither a republic in any meaningful sense of that word, with the Ireland bit running into something of a political road-block around Newry.
Then there’s the matter of referring to the twenty-six counties that elect President Higgins as ‘the country’, or the six counties as ‘the country’. The latter is so riddled with self-contradiction (the UK is a country, Northern Ireland is part of the UK and another country), it’s not worth wasting time on. The former – the use of ‘country’ for the twenty-six counties – suggests that the southern state sees the journey to Irish independence as ended. There’d be some dispute about that, I think. Words once again not matching reality, at least in their implication.
Which brings us to the contortions that the centenary of Easter 1916 brought on. Those who fought and died for Irish freedom in that early twentieth century period were revered, not least by President Higgins, while those who fought and died for Irish freedom in the more recent Troubles were condemned – not least by President Higgins – as murderous traitors. The fact that both the conflict in the early part of the last century was called the Troubles and was led by an organization called the IRA, and the conflict in the latter part of the last century was called The Troubles and was led by an organization called the IRA, doesn’t seem to be a problem for southern (and many northern) politicians.
President Higgins says that promoting philosophy in society and schools would help “to discriminate between truthful language and illusory rhetoric”.
George Orwell, a man who thought and wrote a lot about language, particularly political language, used to claim that where writing was fuzzy and abstract, it was usually produced by a mind that was fuzzy and divorced from reality. I wonder what he would have made of this part of Michael D Higgins’s speech yesterday:
“The dissemination, at all levels of society, of the tools, language and methods of philosophical enquiry can, I believe, provide a meaningful component in any concerted attempt at offering a long-term and holistic response to our current predicament.”
No, stop crying, Virginia. As D-Ream so wisely sang, “Things. Can only get better.” Besides, Michael D does speak lovely Irish. I don’t understand nine-tenths of it but it sounds still lovely.
“For example, take the title “President of Ireland.“ If someone told you about a person called President of the United States, you’d assume the reference was to a man or woman elected by the people of the US, who then had a key role to play in the life of that region. In our case, of course, the President of Ireland is elected by three-quarters of the people of Ireland, and has to make trips to an area called Northern Ireland to reach the remainder of the Irish people living in Ireland. Something of a gap, then, between the title and the reality.”
The root of the misnomer ‘President of Ireland’ is the Southern constitution and the misnomer of a name it gives to the Southern state, shamelessly abrogating the name ‘Ireland’ for itself.
“Which brings us to the contortions that the centenary of Easter 1916 brought on. Those who fought and died for Irish freedom in that early twentieth century period were revered, not least by President Higgins, while those who fought and died for Irish freedom in the more recent Troubles were condemned – not least by President Higgins – as murderous traitors. The fact that both the conflict in the early part of the last century was called the Troubles and was led by an organization called the IRA, and the conflict in the latter part of the last century was called The Troubles and was led by an organization called the IRA, doesn’t seem to be a problem for southern (and many northern) politicians.”
What’s your position, Jude? You often take offence when people accuse you of supporting the PIRA, yet you are clear in your support and admiration of the 1916 rebels. It seems, therefore, either that you are a bit disingenuous when you take issue with accusations of supporting PIRA, or that you also suffer from the same moral and logical dilemma that you highlight above.
You are right MT, while there remains a deliberate and vociferous campaign of vilification of republicans for their role in the conflict, there has at the same time been a state orchestrated cover up of the actions of many who played a greater part in starting the conflict in the first place and in fanning the flames.
Until the truth comes out, many people will be simply afraid to speak out in defence of the IRA and they will remain an easy target for the media to continue to express its biased and manipulative opinions on.
Those who do would put their careers, friendships and perhaps even lives at risk.
As Gerry Adams correctly said, we do not yet have peace, we have an absence of violence.
In time, the PIRA will be honoured every bit as passionately as the IRA who fought the war of independence, medals included.
That’s interesting MT.. I’ve been reading your own grab-and -paste interjections for a while and although you make comment on specific words, lines and paragraphs , thought out and written by another hand ,I have never actually read your own opinions on any of it .I have seen you disparage many writers’ opinionions ,but although you’ve often been offered a platform for your own views , you’ve never taken up the offer. ….so we don’t actually know what they are or what you specifically think about anything. Asking Jude what exactly his current opinion on anything is a bit disingenuous in this context.He’s also allowed to change his mind about certain positions now and again, if he cares to. Some others give their own , sometimes very blunt opinions about specific subjects and sometimes never elaborate ,but you don’t actually give anything at all except for critique and criticism . That is hardly a conversation, much less a debate at all.
“opinionions”!!! ….oh dear !
“….so we don’t actually know what they are or what you specifically think about anything”
I don’t think it’ll take a genius to work out MT’s opinions on things Paddy…..I think they wouldn’t be all that different from the views expressed on nutty Willie Frazers facebook page…..
In fact, I’ve always suspected that MT was a flegger, as in a Fleg Protestor.
That may well be the case , Ryan…and I don’t doubt your insight at all, but unless he writes something that is truly his own everything else will be Chinese whispers.As for the aforementioned Willie Frazer, I would never waste a moment of my time looking at his facebook page. you do it for some dark entertainment or for a masochistic thrill?
“I don’t think it’ll take a genius to work out MT’s opinions on things Paddy…..I think they wouldn’t be all that different from the views expressed on nutty Willie Frazers facebook page….. In fact, I’ve always suspected that MT was a flegger, as in a Fleg Protestor.”
If you can offer any evidence in any of the comments that I’ve made to support this view, please do.
The worrying thing is the assumption on your part that anyone who opposes PIRA terror, or challenges those who support it, must be a flag protestor.
Jude ,access to your site can only be achieved via twitter.The main blog says “web hosting expired” for some reason.
Same here – not even getting email notification.
I said that yesterday, Michael – it should be ok now. I put money in their hot little hands…
On the subject of language perhaps ‘those who fought and died’ should more properly be
‘those who fought and killed and died’.
Funny how language can be misused.
“On the subject of language perhaps ‘those who fought and died’ should more properly be
‘those who fought and killed and died’.”
Gio, Would you advocate using the same language on remembrance Sunday or any commemoration of those who fought and killed and died in various wars and conflicts or is this reserved only for non british military?
jessica
I would. Would you?
What took you so long, gio? Don’t remember you making that inclusion before.
Jude
I don’t remember being asked before.
I think it a good rule of thumb in remembrance of any conflict to remember those lives lost on all sides.
It could be done without having to make judgement about the right and wrong.
Those arguments are for other days.
Are you going to edit your piece in line with my suggestion as you are in agreement?
I’m afraid I would not gio.
No matter what the reality may have been for those directly involved in any war or conflict, no matter how many thousands may have died in the bombs or missiles they have delivered, no matter how many innocent civilians may have been casualties of war whether in schools, hospitals or in their own streets and homes, the true instigators of such conflicts and wars are rarely to be found on the battle field or in direct combat, but safe in the political arena where they protect themselves behind the might of state and its political immunity.
Personally I would choose not to vilify good men and women who would do their duty, but instead those who made that terrible duty necessary in the first place.
jessica
It is not a matter of vilification,but simply stating facts.
“It is not a matter of vilification,but simply stating facts.”
Really, and who decides which facts to include and which to omit?
jessica
Well, in this case Jude decided to omit the killing part though he remembered the fighting and dying bit.
“Well, in this case Jude decided to omit the killing part though he remembered the fighting and dying bit”
How many millions have the British Army murdered? That doesn’t stop people wearing their poppies though. That wasn’t for “Freedom”, it was for Colonialism and Imperialism, some of the proceeds of which are still in the very crown Queen Elizabeth wears to this day.
The Old IRA was clearly fighting against immoral occupation of their country, the vast majority of the Irish people wanted Irish Independence (and still do) and Britain denied them that (and still do). So it was morally justified to take up arms.
To try to regard Republicans as “bad” and the British Army as “Right” is ridiculous, any neutral and fair observer would say the same.
“How many millions have the British Army murdered? That doesn’t stop people wearing their poppies though. ”
MT got it spot on.
It is all about legitimising their military actions and covering up the horrific reality which is usually overseas anyway.
By pressuring as many people especially on the bbc to don the bloodied weed, who would dare speak out against them?
Britain is a militaristic state, it is just not the Irish way to want to interfere with and control other nation states the way that they do.
“MT got it spot on. It is all about legitimising their military actions and covering up the horrific reality which is usually overseas anyway.”
I never said the poppy.is all about legitimising military actions and covering up the horrific reality which is usually overseas anyway. I actually said the opposite: it’s not about that, it’s about remembering war dead.
You should stop.telling lies and misrepresenting people, or Jude should take action.
“How many millions have the British Army murdered?”
It hasn’t murdered millions.
“That doesn’t stop people wearing their poppies though”
Poppies are to remember war dead.
“That wasn’t for “Freedom”, it was for Colonialism and Imperialism, some of the proceeds of which are still in the very crown Queen Elizabeth wears to this day.”
What wasn’t for freedom? What was for colonialism and imperialism?
“The Old IRA was clearly fighting against immoral occupation of their country, the vast majority of the Irish people wanted Irish Independence (and still do) and Britain denied them that (and still do). So it was morally justified to take up arms.”
The Old IRA was probably justified but it wasn’t fighting against immoral occupation, since Ireland wasn’t occupied: it was part of the UK
“To try to regard Republicans as “bad” and the British Army as “Right” is ridiculous, any neutral and fair observer would say the same.”
It’s republicans after 1921 (and before 1919) who are bad. They were anti-democratic, had no.mandate and no legitimacy. The 1919-21 republicans were legitimate. Nobody has said the British Army was ‘right’: sometimes it was and other times it wasn’t.
“It’s republicans after 1921 (and before 1919) who are bad. They were anti-democratic, had no.mandate and no legitimacy. The 1919-21 republicans were legitimate. Nobody has said the British Army was ‘right’: sometimes it was and other times it wasn’t.”
Conflict is a terrible thing and creates hurts that are very difficult to heal.
That was a big thing for you to say MT.
Lets hope the conflicts between our two nations are over for good and we can eventually build a better and stronger relationship between these two islands.
“That was a big thing for you to say MT.”
What was?
Now don’t you go and spoil the moment
“Now don’t you go and spoil the moment”
It was a genuine question. Could you answer it please?
Ryan and jessica
I know it is easier for you to deflect discussion onto British actions but is there any small chance you might comment on the issue in hand, namely how language is used in describing the IRA or indeed the men and women of the rising?
It is impossible to talk of them fighting and dying, in my view, without mentioning that they also killed.
Jude does plenty of blogs on the evil Brits so there is ample opportunity for Brit bashing under those pieces.
without mentioning that they also killed..cant see a problem with that,killing was the whole idea.dan breens on record saying kill as many as you can and get out.what i cant understand is higgins and his ilks thinking,killing the enemy a hundred yrs ago was fine and the ones doing the killing should be honoured,but killing the same enemy now their branded traitors.isnt he mixed up somewhere.
Good point, gio. Will there be room to include “and killed” on the cenotaphs?
Terminology:
Remarkable how Westminster could deem Donegal to be in Southern Ireland with not a Peep from the Peep ‘o Day Boys and describe North Eastern Ireland as Northern Ireland with no Protest from the and how the Peep o’ Day Boys could claim to speak for Ulster.
Their magnetic compasses are about as trustworthy as the Titanic was sea worthy.
Strange how Westminster could claim dominion in Heaven as on Earth.
For nearly a thousand years Englishmen and women clung to a religion established by a
Carpenter from Galilee until a rival church was Established by Law made at Westminster
not arising from conscience but from Terror.
Moral Compasses Anybody?
Actually one managed to watch the rugby, Esteemed Blogmeister, and think PHILOSOPHICAL thoughts both simultaneously and at the same time, yesterday.
Versatility is truly the spoice of loife, loike.
The p.-thoughts ranged from such profound ponderings as :
-Is it time for the All-Black card to be introduced into the oval-balled game ?
To studying the physogs of the physically imposing Kiwis even as Michael D. Higgins reached up to shake their hands in turn, in the pre-battle pleasantries. One tends to do this a lot on such occasions of late. Even as the abbreviated red Pres pauses to listen to the abbreviated versh of Amhrán na bhFiann, prior to embarking on his VIPresidential perp- walk diagonally, vertically and once again diagonally back along the V-shaped red carpet.
On this occasion the aftershock of the recent earthquakes in the Land of the All-Black Swan clearly registered in the philosophical physogs of the Humungous Haka-handwaving Humanoids.
And as the Darby O Gill of Good Will Hunting moved through the piano-shifters (the majority) and the piano-players (the minority) the sound of the Minute Waltz as played by the Garda Band in their strikingly original style could be heard accompanying the facial expressions of the Long Lads from the Land of the Long White Cloud..
Which covered the philosophical gamut from (L to R):
-The Anomalous Monism of the Mauler, the Gnosticism of the Grubber Kicker, the Pancritical Rationalism of the Prop, the Semantic Holism of the Scrumcap Wearer, the Carthesianism of the Counter Rucker, the Behaviourism of the Blitz Defender, the Utilitarianism of the Up and Underer to the (gasp) Utopianism of the Use it or Loser.
Even the Perkin’s inner Tayto-crunching Plato found it bewildering to trace the day’s disastrous outcome in the philosophical physogs of the Kiwis as they peered downward, far into the distance:
– bogito, ergo zero-sum.
One can only wonder, sadly, at the drastic downsizing which has afflicted the Irish Labour Party, the Party of Conor Craze O’Brain: how can the President of the Country and the Leader of the Party alike possibly hope to fill the jackboots, much less walk in the footsteps of The Big Foot of Yunery.
Still, Hip-hip for H-H (Higgins-Howlin) in their brave ambulatory endeavours.
Pause for reflection: Aras an Uachtaráin is becoming more and more like a setting for The Sopranos, minus, of course, the truly wunnerful participation of the great Gandolfini.
Nonetheless, better to shake hands with the Divil you know than the one you don’t know. Ponder, for a moment, what may be Coming. Down. The. Tracks. We had a taste of same this very morning when, on her Sunday Morning Mollycoddling Coming Down Show, Mimsy O’Call-again ‘interrogated’ Mr/ Ms Panti Bliss, both of whom may well be tearing strips off one another in the not too d. future.
That is, if both stand (simultaneously and at the same t.) in the next Prez Election (repeat, Election). If the less than narky barking of the pink-ribboned poodles on the streets of Dublin is to be believed.
Beware , and be very, very (gulp) scared.
That is why The Perkin’s inner political pragmatist has always been reluctant to point out, say, the Double Jobbing of Uachtarán na hEireann. His other Presidential role is (and at the risk of riling his pair of Bernese dogs, Brod and Shadow) , erm , Life President of Galway FC., perennial dungeon-dwellers of the League of Ireland.
The very soccer, oops, football club which (gulp) boasted Nick Leeson as its treasurer, the Man who, having Broken the Bank of Queen Lizard-Beth of Schloss Windsor then proceeded to have his own pocket, heart but not the neck of Nick, broken.
President Higgins, while no Dr. Bernardo, is still happy to talk the talk and walk the walk and even, on occasion, to talk the walk.
Like the time he scripted and presented a programme for Channel 4 called :
-The Other Emerald Isle.
This was a report from Monserrat, an island in the British West Indies as distinct from the Windy West Britain. So impressed was one viewer by the performance of the Notice Box on the Goggle Box, in particular his ability to walk on a cliff edge and talk to the TV camera without falling off the precipice down, down into the darkblue Caribbean that he resolved to visit the island.
And that’s how, in 1994, The Perkin found himself talking and walking but balking at cliff edges on the Emerald Isle of the Caribbean where the population is black and names like Lynch, Sweeney, Ryan, Roche and Carty abound and where the biggest sugar farm is The Galway Plantation.
It is reckoned up to 60,000 Iirsh were ‘Barbadosed’ by Cromwell in the 17th C.
There are many records of travellers describing Leprechaun being spoken on Monserrat during the 19th Century and that was one of the reasons which President-to-be Darby O G was drawn to the island.
The Walk is to Monserrat what the Wall is to the USA.
After George Martin, mentor of the Beatles, had built a state of the musical art studio on a hill in the island the toppermost of the poppermost were attracted to record there, from Paul McCartney to Stevie Wonder.
Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits was prompted to write ‘Walk of Life’ after watching a local boatman walking on the pier below Plymouth, the bijour capital of a treasured island.
-He got the action, he got the motion.
To this day, the Perkin regrets not taking up the offer of a boatrip with he same Life Walker. On the toffey-nosed but understandable basis that one was:
-A Traveller not a mere Tourist, I..
If one recalls correctly, the Life Walker’s name was Skerrett.
Dominating Plymouth was Mount Chance which The Perkin’s inner chancer was not tempted to scale, in an ill-advised attempt to emulate the walkie-talkie skill sets of another even, as one had been advised:
-It ain’t erupted since de time of Shakespeare, mon.
Still, the rotten egg whiff which permeated the sugar fields of the Galway Plantation not to mention the slopes of Cork Hill counselled caution.
A year later, sure enough, Mount Chance erupted. And as one gawped at the television pictures of the pyroclastic flow surged down the red slopes on their way to burying Plymouth the only feature still visible after a week was the spire of the Catholic church, the Perking gasped:
-That’s where one wore one’s Argyll socks to Sunday Mass but a twelvemonth since.
Having seen what fate befell the Emerald Isle of the Caribbean after attempting to talk-walk in the footsteps of President-to-be Michael D one would dread to think what might befall the Emerald Isle of the Corribean if the Perkin’s inner Wanabe Prez were to do ditto here or hereabouts.
No, one’s Homburg stays on the hanger.
Since Jessica has raised this point, I’d like to appeal again to the various non/anti-republicans on this site: will you pick a subject you’re interested in and do a blog? It does seem a bit hurler-on-the-ditch simply to red-pen the work of others while producing none yourself.
Excellent suggestion.
PS. Or maybe it was paddykool. Sorry, pk – put down that compliment, Jessica…
Oh its ok Jude, I get enough love and admiration from the unionist contributors here to keep my spirits high
It warms the cockles of my heart 🙂
No problem , Jude. I’d say the same goes for all the other “philosophers” out there who think it is an easy thing to construct a little something for themselves.Let these geniuses have a go themselves and put their own wares up for public consumption…It’s all a bit like criticising a painter or an author when you can’t write or paint anything yourself, isn’t it?
Come on paddy, such moping is not worthy of you.
Its like the old complaint that anyone critiicising a book or a film should try themselves if they are so smart etc.
Your pieces are there to be criticised or occasionally praised.
No one forces you to put them up!
Whaddaya mean nobody forces me ?? …no mopery at all , just observation gio…It’s like the Leonard Cohen piece .”Tower Of Song”…. they’ve me chained to the chair here on the ground floor, cranking out this stuff.. Jude’s on the floor above in manacles too……help!!!
Jude writes of Hurlers on the Ditch.
All some of them can hurl is abuse.
There’s MT, which might stand for ************** {Redacted, as they say – Jude)
Hurler On The Ditch is a venerable expression. But what about ladies – who don’t play Hurling?
What about the LGBT lobby? “Camogie Player on the Dike” anyone?
various non/anti republicans,that the majority of the bloggers covered.
I know or have known five generations of my family. They were all born in the same parish. The first two (grandfather and father) were born in Ireland. The present three generations were, seemingly, not born in Ireland. Their birthplace never physically moved so what happened? What happened was that an anti democratic rump of a British colony in Ireland decided that as they could no longer hold the whole country, they would by force of arms hold as much as pragmatically possible. To hell with the majority of Ireland wanting rid of the anti Irish Teutonic lotus eaters and to hell with their fellow Britishers left in jeopardy in the Free State, they set up the pro British ‘state’ of Northern Ireland. With the help of Tory party sympathisers they have kept this basket case alive with their own version of the Statutes of Kilkenny and they think that we owe them a debt of gratitude. There is a bit of philosophy for his.
“I know or have known five generations of my family. They were all born in the same parish. The first two (grandfather and father) were born in Ireland. The present three generations were, seemingly, not born in Ireland. Their birthplace never physically moved so what happened? What happened was that an anti democratic rump of a British colony in Ireland decided that as they could no longer hold the whole country, they would by force of arms hold as much as pragmatically possible. To hell with the majority of Ireland wanting rid of the anti Irish Teutonic lotus eaters and to hell with their fellow Britishers left in jeopardy in the Free State, they set up the pro British ‘state’ of Northern Ireland. With the help of Tory party sympathisers they have kept this basket case alive with their own version of the Statutes of Kilkenny and they think that we owe them a debt of gratitude. There is a bit of philosophy for his.”
1. Your grandfather and father were born in Ireland. Northern Ireland is as much part of Ireland as Southern Ireland is. The clue’s in the name.
2. It was the nationalists who were anti-democratic, seeking to force an entire people into a state against their will.
“Your grandfather and father were born in Ireland. Northern Ireland is as much part of Ireland as Southern Ireland is. The clue’s in the name.”
At last, something we can agree on MT
Who forced the Irish into the UK?
“Who forced the Irish into the UK?”
The Irish Parliament.
No such thing.
I’ve mentioned a few giants of Philosophy on this blog before, such as Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, etc I’m no expert on those men and the countless other Philosophers through the ages but I have read up on them and watched Stefan Molyneux’s youtube videos, Stefan himself has a Masters in Philosophy from a Canadian University and his Philosophy videos are very interesting.
Philosophy is generally regarded as being refreshing, making people think and view things differently, and that’s good but is Philosophy all good? Definitely not. For example, Plato was a mystic. There’s a small amount of evidence to say he took drugs. Indeed very little of the ancient works of the Greek philosophers has actually survived. If Aristotle (regarded as the greatest of all Philosophers) was alive today he would be treated as a racist and a sexist bigot. Aristotle preached that slavery was justified because slaves had a slave mentality. He said that women should be dominated by men and given very little rights. He even preached that men should control how much food women ate….I also think he was against democracy too.
Other more recent Philosophers have inspired men to become killers. Like Friedrich Nietzsche. One of Nietzsche’s theories was the idea of “Übermensch” or “Super Humans”. Basically Nietzsche said that there are humans that are super intelligent or had other extraordinary abilities and that these people shouldn’t be under the same laws as the rest of us. This inspired the murder of a boy called Bobby Franks by two highly intelligent teenagers called Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb in 1924. Both had read up on Nietzsche and considered themselves “Ubermensch” (both had an IQ of over 200) and wanted to commit the “perfect crime” to prove how superior they were in intelligence compared to the Authorities.
Adolf Hitler also studied Nietzsche and its obvious he was influenced, Hitler’s beliefs in the Aryan “Master Race” and of “Untermensch” or “Sub Humans” makes it obvious. Hitler considered Jews and Slavs to be “Untermensch” and even said: “The Slavs are in need of a German Master”.
I wonder if any Orange men ever read up on Nietzsche? some of them have made similar Nazi style comments about Catholics…..
So yes, some Philosophy can be enlightening but it can also be very dangerous too.
Has Michael D Higgins been reading up on some enlightening Philosophy? Judging by his words and actions (or inactions) he clearly has not, especially when it comes to the people of the North…..
So Jude deigns to respond to.comments but elects not to address my opener.
Maybe he just didn’t see it, so.I’ll repeat it.
What’s your position, Jude? You often take offence when people accuse you of supporting the PIRA, yet you are clear in your support and admiration of the 1916 rebels. It seems, therefore, either that you are a bit disingenuous when you take issue with accusations of supporting PIRA, or that you also suffer from the same moral and logical dilemma that you highlight above.
Hello? Jude? Have you missed this question a second time?