‘No Pope Here’ by Joe McVeigh

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The announcement that Pope Francis may visit the north during his visit to Dublin in 2018 was greeted mainly with approval except from some die-hards in the Free Presbyterian church. It would seem that we have a long way to go in the north of Ireland before the Free Presbyterians see the light. The Free Presbyterian Minister in Enniskillen writes to the papers regularly. This is one of his recent letters which appeared in the Belfast Telegraph two days ago (Dec 2,):

Editor, The main reason why we don’t need Pope Francis in Ulster is because of the claims of the papacy, which are unscriptural and blasphemous.Pope Leo XIII declared that the Pope holds “upon this Earth the place of God Almighty”. Therefore, the Roman Catholic Church holds that the Pope, as the Vicar of Christ on Earth, is ruler of the world, supreme not only over the Roman Church, but over all kings, presidents and civil rulers.

The New York Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on Earth … By divine right, the Pope has supreme and full power in faith and morals over every pastor and his flock. He is the true Vicar of Christ, the head of the entire Church, father and teacher of all Christians …”

Pope Pius IX said of himself: “Alone, I am the successor of the apostles, the Vicar of Jesus Christ, I am the way the truth and the life. “I am not surprised that the main so-called ‘Protestant’ churches in Ireland have welcomed this proposed visit. For years now, the Church of Ireland, the Irish Presbyterian Church and the Methodist Church have been courting the Church of Rome, treating her as a Christian church.

It is sad that they have forgotten what their forefathers believed – and, more importantly, what the Bible teaches. REV JOHN GRAY, Free Presbyterian Church Enniskillen, Co Fermanagh

The Free Ps used to make a big thing of presenting Catholics who ‘left’ the Catholic Church at their services. Rev Paisley used to do it. One Catholic from my part of the world joined him and became a preacher. It’s not often you hear from someone who left the Free Ps in disgust and joined a different more open and tolerant church. This is what happened to Joan McFadden who was once in the Free Presbyterian church in Scotland. She recently recounted her story in the Guardian (10 September 2016). Joan told of how she grew up a Free P, the restrictions on her and her family and how she came to reject the FP’s and married a Catholic! This is from her account of life growing up in a Free Presbyterian family:

“I didn’t know we were different until I started school. On the day of the Christmas party my dad took me and my brother and sister home, so we missed the party. My frantic questions were answered with a quiet “We don’t celebrate Christmas.” Next day everyone brought their toys from the party to school and I asked my friend if I could play with her and her lovely little dolls’ house but she refused and I sat miserably alone and desolate, while my teacher tried to cheer me up. Years later my mum told me that the teacher offered to bring our gifts round but my parents had to refuse in case they got into trouble.

The trouble would have come from the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland where my dad was a minister. Every move was scrutinised and accepting Christmas presents could have put his job in jeopardy. My cousins at another school accepted Christmas gifts even though they weren’t at the party, but their minister ordered their parents to return them, which they did.

Many people suffer from Sunday blues, dreading the thought of work on Mondays. I adore Sundays, ridiculously happy at being free to do as I please because I grew up dreading Sundays, which were a misery. No work was done on the Sabbath and shopping, television, sport and even going for a walk were all banned, with the day spent going to church, eating vast amounts of food and reading religious books or the Bible.

We would make bets about which “perversion”, such as homosexuality or living in sin, would feature in the sermons.

As a small child, the restrictions and obsessions of the faith only upset me through incidents such as the Christmas party, endless church services and the stifling Sundays. I was loved and secure and part of a large close family but, as we grew older, my four siblings and I constantly questioned the religion we lived by. We listened to ministers thundering from the pulpit, with Catholics in particular coming in for abuse and the Pope regularly described both verbally and in the church magazines as the antichrist.

The range of potential sins meant we were banned from dancing, the cinema, music, Guides, Scouts, sport and youth clubs as practically anything was considered potentially wicked. Family worship was mandatory, morning and night, and consisted of singing a psalm, reading the Bible and praying on our knees. This could never be missed, though it was actually a minor routine compared to Sundays.

Joan continues in the article to describe life as a teenager in the Free Presbyterians and how eventually her parents and her siblings left it. I will give you a summary of the other half of her article next time.

 

20 Responses to ‘No Pope Here’ by Joe McVeigh

  1. Ciaran M December 5, 2016 at 1:16 pm #

    No Hope Here is more like it, at least for the Free P’s

  2. Sammy McNally December 5, 2016 at 2:49 pm #

    Another no pope view from earlier times…

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2010/07/12/as-the-12th-approaches-%E2%80%93-no-pope-here-either/

  3. joe bloggs December 5, 2016 at 3:41 pm #

    The “Free” Ps are a very strange lot, but every Christian denomination has its peculiarities, however. I contain a link below to some “holy bones” venerated by Catholics. I remember a few years ago a dead saint’s body going on tour; the recommended veneration was to kiss the corpse’s feet. There is definitely a yawning chasm between evangelical Protestants who take the word of the gospel very literally and those from the Roman Catholic faith who dig up corpses and start licking them. On the sanity spectrum I think it is the corpse lickers who are closer to “batshit crazy”.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36398287

    • Gearoid December 5, 2016 at 7:18 pm #

      The veneration/worship of Saintly relics is a very old tradition which goes right back to the early days of Christianity and has some biblical warrant in Scripture. The practice is not unwholesome in itself but rather when people start to go beyond the acceptable limits of honouring the remains of a declared saint and venture into superstition, issues do arise. I can understand how people in our modern age must treat the whole question of relics with a high degree of scepticism and this is a mindset developed from the rationalism of the 18th C Enlightenment era. The following link should help to explain the history and reasoning behind the veneration of relics from a Catholic standpoint-https://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/RELICS.HTM

      • Gearoid December 5, 2016 at 11:38 pm #

        * must treat = might treat

    • Wolfe tone December 5, 2016 at 8:59 pm #

      I seen a picture recently of your man benedict sitting staring at a skull on a table. Very creepy and sinister it looked. Like wtf?

      • billy December 5, 2016 at 9:06 pm #

        what about yer man in drogheda they have his head in a glass case in the chapel.used to bring the kids from school down on bus runs.lol.give them nightmares.

        • Wolfe tone December 5, 2016 at 9:53 pm #

          Just last week some woman claimed a statue of our lady had shed tears and moved. Do ‘miracles’ such as these only happen in the catholic faith?

          A mate of mine is well into his religion. He’s always bringing me gifts of rosary beads, holy water etc and talking about miracles. I politely indulge him as I don’t particularly want to upset him. Anyway this day he arrived with a book of holy pictures, ‘pictures of miracles’ according to him. He showed me a picture of a nuclear explosion and what looked like a Christ like figure within the explosion. The illustration also said ‘on the right hand side of this photo you can see an image of our lady in the clouds’. My friend pointed to the left hand side of photo, his right as he’s looking at it, and asked me could I see it. I politely said there isn’t even a cloud to be seen. He told me,’ah it’s there you just have to look at it for a while and ‘she’ will appear’! When I had enough of indulging him, I told him I believed he was looking at they wrong side of photo. Alas he as adamant that he could see our lady on the other side of photo. Scary.

      • Sherdy December 5, 2016 at 10:10 pm #

        And he was saying: ‘Alas poor Yorick, I knew him well’!

    • Jude Collins December 6, 2016 at 12:39 pm #

      Joe I’m not an expert in oral contact with corpses but I think there’s probably a difference between kissing and licking. I share your scepticism about the tours of sacred bones for adulation; but haven’t Castro’s ashes just finished a tour of Cuba? And I remember lining up with tens of thousands to get a last look at the corpse of Dev. (Mind you, some may have been coming to check that he was dead for sure…)

      • joe bloggs December 6, 2016 at 1:14 pm #

        Jude – you may be doing it wrong….

  4. PF December 5, 2016 at 6:24 pm #

    Joe

    You do know, don’t you, that the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland (the one you have linked to) is not the same as ‘Ian Paisley’s’ Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster?

  5. Am Ghobsmacht December 5, 2016 at 8:10 pm #

    For what it’s worth there’s around 15000 Ulster Free P’s. Yes, fifteen thousand.

    I don’t like them much myself but I don’t see why a site has to dedicate a couple of pages ridiculing a religious minority (even though the article is actually detailing Scottish Free P’s).

    • Dedeideoprofundis December 5, 2016 at 10:25 pm #

      An awful lot of the work at Stormont.

      • Am Ghobsmacht December 5, 2016 at 10:40 pm #

        I know that (everyone does) but some religious groups are able to excel in certain spheres e.g. Hutterites and crop farming.

        It is unfortunate for us that Free P’s stick together to this extent in this particular sphere but nonetheless i find this article quite unpalatable.

  6. ben madigan December 5, 2016 at 11:04 pm #

    “The Free Ps in used to make a big thing of presenting Catholics who ‘left’ the Catholic Church at their services. Rev Paisley used to do it.”

    The Ulster Free Presbyterians were involved in kidnapping one under-age Catholic girl from West Belfast in the mid-1950s. She was smuggled to England and Scotland and hidden away from the police who were searching for her .

    At the court case the judge said:

    ‘Mr Paisley was in touch with the girl when prima facie she was abducted‘. He had attempted to use her as an anti-Catholic propaganda stunt and would not inform police where she was.

    https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2014/01/12/ian-kyle-paisley-highlights-of-his-life-1/

  7. Ryan December 5, 2016 at 11:15 pm #

    It was a positive reaction by most Protestant Churches to the Popes visit and that’s very welcome and positive. Both the Protestant Churches and Catholic Church have made massive strides in co-operating and working together in recent years. There will always be theological disputes and disagreements, that’s religion but it shouldn’t mean these Churches have to be hostile to each other. Indeed it was Pope Benedict XVI that said the Protestant Churches were “Sister Churches”. I’m sure Pope Francis will be of a similar mind.

    As expected, a small minority were always going to oppose Pope Francis planned visit. They use the same centuries old arguments. The same old story. They cant move on. If it wasn’t Catholics, they would have an issue with another community of people. Indeed I have heard criticism of the Church of Ireland (Anglican) by many Free Presbyterians, some saying that’s its followers are “Catholic Lite”. I understand they have beliefs but preaching hatred of any religion or people is wrong.

    I attend the Novena in Clonard every year with my family. For those that don’t know, a Novena is basically a 10 day event where Catholics come to pray. Its like a 30 minute Mass every day for those 10 days. Its estimated 100,000 come every year. But in recent years there’s been Protestant Ministers invited to speak. Every time they come they are warmly welcomed and received. That is the future, not protesting against or disrespecting each other.

    I think everyone has heard stories like Joan’s. I obviously grew up a Catholic but my family weren’t too religious. We didn’t go to Mass every week for example but we would go around Easter, Novena, Christmas, etc times. We certainly made our First Communions, Confirmations and obviously Baptisms for any new family members, aka babies. We didn’t even have a Bible in the house but, like almost all Catholic homes, we did have a picture of the Sacred Heart or (like right now in my living room) Our Lady. The only time I was encouraged to pray was when I was put to bed as a child but I wasn’t forced to, it was more a way to say “Goodnight”. My mother/father had the same kind of upbringing, though my grandparents made all their kids say the rosary together on a Sunday, which lasted maybe 1 hour. But after that it was just like any other day…..

    Obviously I went to a Catholic School but even there we didn’t exactly have the Bible shoved down our throat. We just said a Hail Mary at Assembly time and that was about it….as a child I always found priests/nuns who visited our school to be pleasant. Fr Toner (a priest involved in the 1981 hunger strikes) helped us prepare for likes of Communions or when we had to do readings at Masses, which were one off events.

  8. Am Ghobsmacht December 7, 2016 at 4:21 am #

    “Careful now!”

  9. Dominic Hendron December 8, 2016 at 9:20 pm #

    After reading the crap here thank God for Hugh Grant on Rewrite Film 4

  10. Dominic Hendron December 8, 2016 at 9:21 pm #

    After reading the crap here thank God for Hugh Grant in Rewrite Film 4