I did not watch the View last night but I heard all about it this morning on BBC Radio Ulster on Nolan. (By the way, what an ignorant man Nolan is. Jude, you have great patience.) I heard the kind words spoken by Ian Paisley Jnr about Martin McGuinness and his good wishes and expression of gratitude to him. I was not surprised since Martin had told me how well received he was at Dr Paisley’s wake by the whole family including Ian Jnr. Nevertheless, it took courage for Ian Jnr to come on the radio and make his gracious remarks. He knew he would get a lambasting from the Traditional Unionist, Allister and even from some within the DUP. These mouthpieces, always favoured by the Nolan show, are now an embarrassment to unionism. I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of positive response from DUP quarters to Ian Jnr’s comments and pleasantly surprised at the genuine compliments paid to Martin McGuinness by many on the programme. There is hope.
Martin McGuinness has left us in the north and the people of Ireland a great legacy -the legacy of a just and lasting peace. He was one of those mainly responsible for ‘taking the gun out of Irish politics’ for once and for all. He was the man who almost single-handedly pointed the way forward. He preferred to continue the struggle for justice, peace and freedom by peaceful political means. He is the true patriot. He was the Sinn Fein leader who reached out to Unionists in order to begin a process of reconciliation. Rev Ian responded with generosity. After a slow start, Peter Robinson became generous. Martin was convinced that if there was to be Irish unity the unionists would have to become at least comfortable living with and working with Irish republicans. Martin led the way as Minister of Education reaching out to all sections of the community. As Deputy First Minister he was always gracious and dignified. His symbolic gestures in reaching out to those who were once his enemies was done to help in the process of healing and reconciliation that is much needed if we are to keep moving forward.
The Martin McGuinness I knew was humble, personable, articulate and courageous. I remember seeing him in Milltown Cemetery the day that the loyalist fanatic Stone threw hand grenades into the crowd killing a number of people. Martin took charge and restored calm to a panicked crowd that day. I have seen him act with dignity when confronted by British soldiers in the Bogside or the RUC at roadblocks.
Many have paid tribute to him for making the peace possible. Others, more hostile, go back to his early days in the IRA. Those who do not understand Derry or the north at that time will not understand his decision and the decision of many young men of twenty to join the IRA in at that time in order to protect their own community against vicious sectarian assaults by British soldiers, the RUC, B men and loyalists. At the time it was understandable why a young man in the Bogside would have wanted to join the republican movement which attempted to offer protection to a vulnerable community. I was disgusted with the remarks of RTE reporter Tommy Gorman about Martin on television last night but then I do not expect much from this reporter whose attitude to the north is influenced by his political upbringing in the south.
I wish Martin well. He has always been a good friend. Over a month ago when my house was attacked in a sectarian attack Martin was one of the first to phone me to see if I was alright. I did not know then that he was ill.
His decision to resign as Deputy First Minister was the right one and his decision to resign from political life was also the right one. He has been dealing with big realities personal and political and once again he has shown great courage. He has worked very hard and that work will one day be rewarded. I hope and pray that he has a long and happy retirement.
Well said Joe,too true that many never or more likely never wanted to see the conditions that forced young men to join up.
Fr.Joe,
you articulate true words which today express the feelings and aspirations of all people of goodwill throughout this island and indeed further afield. Multitudes of others, wish him a speedy recovery from his health issues and like you, I pray that he may enjoy a long and happy retirement.
“Whether you be man or woman you will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honor”.
(Muhammad Ali)
Martin McGuinness has the courage of his convictions and the belief and honour to carry them through.
Joe
Patriotism is greatly over-rated in my view.
McGuinness did a great deal to keep the peace process going and I don’t know if anyone else could have been so successful in dealing with the DUP.
I respect him for that and history will probably be kind to him.
But there is no need to omit his IRA past. That is part of who he is.
How many were killed at his command? Perhaps he will tell us all the facts one day.
Let us not pretend these things never happened, just because he is a likeable man.
Patriotism is the fuel that feeds Irelands soul.
Without it, Ireland is nothing more than a sod of earth.
The IRA will not be omitted from Irelands past, in time they will be honoured for their role in saving it.
Ireland needs its patriots more today than ever in its history.
Your views would be best suited on another island gio. Ireland does not wear them well.
jessica
Pure nonsense
The vast majority of Irishmen and women I am glad to say had no love for the IRA so perhaps it is your views that would be better suited to another place.
I didn’t say anyone had to love the IRA.
I said in time they would be honoured and that is true and unavoidable, they will be.
Such is human nature.
But Ireland haters like yourself are the shame and shackles that prostrate this land.
What would you know about what Irish men and Irish women want for Ireland?
jessica
That is just personal abuse and adds nothing to your argument.
Please stop it.
It was not personal abuse gio.
If I wanted to give personal abuse , I would say something more like, go cry me a river and then go and drown yourself in it.
jessica
Charming as ever.
Calling me an Ireland hater and telling me to take my views elsewhere seems fairly abusive to a gentle soul like me.
Why not address the argument?
Ireland seems to wear my views rather more comfortably than yours.
Ireland is going down the toilet and will soon be swimming in the sewage of its own making gio.
We have to accept what we are.
Ireland and its people have always fought for freedom and we should never be ashamed of it.
I don’t desire any return to conflict, but it happens anyway.
You harp on about past IRA violence more than you do Irish men and women fighting and killing in Iraq for the british army, or even the role of the british in encouraging the murder of innocent Irish people all over this island both catholic and protestant, or their national security veto to hide this truth.
You are quick to point out that we should not forget IRA violence as if it were something to be ashamed off.
I am not ashamed of the IRA.
It has been some time since I was at the grave of Michael Collins, but last time I was there, it said “Thank you for Ireland”.
I don’t know if the message still remains but the sentiment remains, we can indeed thank the IRA for what freedom Ireland has today, both north and south – and that should indeed never be forgotten.
I don’t want to be abusive to any gentle souls gio, but I will not tolerate people who wish to shout about the evils of Irish man and women but only whisper about the deeds of a british state who caused the conflicts here in the first place.
jessica
The PIRA
killed quite a few Irish men ad women, but maybe they were the wrong kind of Irish eh?
It was them who did the dying for Martin, it was them who made the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of great Irish patriots like Martin.
Maybe you should say thank you to them.
I was too young to remember the start of the conflict gio, but I saw first hand in the late 70s and all through the 80s what they were fighting for and I chose to support them 100%.
I am well aware of the death and destruction that happens in conflict, which is why I would never try to justify it. But not to fight back from the state administered brutality would simply have been cowardice and I will remain indeed grateful for them.
As someone who has not only seen, felt and been scarred from our conflict I can understand perfectly well why loyalists would have chosen to fight also, and I have no hatred or resentment for them for doing so either. I have no issue with them commemorating their own people who played their own part in the conflict.
In fact it is necessary to allow them to do so and I would prefer to live among the brave Irish men and women who chose to fight for Ireland whether they be republican or loyalist than the cowardly elitist and self loathing parasites more comfortable bad mouthing them.
The day will come when republican and loyalist working class people, protestant, catholic and whatever religion, and from every county of Ireland will unite together, no longer against british state misrule and injustice, but against Dublin state led misrule of Ireland.
Don’t ever forget gio, this is our country and we will fight for it.
jessica
By self loathing parasites I suppose you mean those who didn’t bomb or kill or maim anybody on the way to the this all important united Ireland which is worth endless lives provided it is someone else that does the dying. Good stuff.
No gio, I mean those who would claim to have Irelands interests at heart but would also exploit the grief and trauma of Irish people to suit their own poisonous and self serving agendas.
It was britain who brought the guns and the bombs to Ireland, it was the british who killed and maimed first, it was the british that started the recent conflict and it was not for a united, respectful and equal Ireland but to subdue a growing catholic population who saw Ireland, the whole island, as their country and not the orange colony of a failing empire, and who refused to accept their place as second rate Irish citizens on this island and we still do.
I would happily die myself without a second thought if it meant my children could have a free and united Ireland that they could pursue a prosperous and happy future in, without having to struggle for equality, for identity, for respect, to be able to vote for their own Taoiseach, their own president, to know the Irish flag represented them as much as the better class of Irish further down the country.
The truth is gio, I don’t believe you have the first notion of what it is you are talking about.
jessica
The feeling is entirely mutual.
Gio
As usual,a well balanced comment on the hagiography from Fr Joe.I note that you’re receiving the normal amount of disrespect from Jessica who would do well to adopt some of Martin’s tolerance during the last 10 years.Just because we qualify Martin’s measured political performance over the last decade with mention of some of his earlier activities should not leave you open to personal abuse.
Argenta
Thanks.
If Joe had made some acknowledgment in his piece of the IRA victims from McGuinness’s time then that would have been fair enough.
As it is I think it is important to keep pointing out such unpleasant truths while also giving the man credit for his (I believe ) genuine efforts to make power sharing work.
Nolan typifies a strain of narcissism, similar to that of the Donald. His show is the biggest, the greatest….,,,Arcitecturally, he is certainly worthy of a claim to the biggest. The Donald, meanwhile has called for an international boycott of Glenfiddich Whisky because its ‘Scot of The Year award has been given to Michael Forbes who opposed Trump’s Aberdeenshire golf club.
Both men have thin skins and gargantuan egos.
Wonderful tribute Joe.
Though I suspect that Martin isn’t finished at all !
I reckon that the goodwill that he has spread – even in Republican areas will halt the Dissidents in their tracks too.
My late Dad always reckoned ( he was a Fianna Boy during the Civil War ) – that if people listened instead of spouting hatefulness , that we were half way there to Uniting the hearts and minds of All Irish people !
I reckon that Sinn Fein are going to have a great result from the upcoming Election and I look foreword so much to going up from Kerry to do my bit in the canvass – beir bua ar an obair ag teacht.
Eddie
It would be great to have you come up from Kerry to canvas!! You can do your bit down there too by talking with family and friends and continue to promote Sinn Féin policies for a Unite Ireland. Have them join Sinn Féin too!!. There is a conference on in the Mansion House Dublin today (21st) on that very subject. Not too late to get the train !
Not wishing to be pedantic but there was no Fianna Fail during the Civil War. That came sometime later. Keep up the good work a chara TAL
Is there anybody you respect on the local political scene or even the local scene apart from a few weird musicians? What about all the people who ordered other people killed in the judiciary or the various wars of ‘conquest’? All come home to a heroes welcome? I know you are without sin so do us a footrest and let Martin retire in peace.
fiosrach
I am not sure if that comment is addressed to me or not, especially as I just said I respected him for his role in the peace process.
Yes it’s yours. Only favour not footrest. Remember least said soonest mended
It’s getting a bit hot and heavy in there , so I’ll just say that you’ve written a very heartfelt piece there Joe.I think Martin mcGuinness has done as well as anyone could in the circumstances. We’ve all had our wilder youthful years (Well ..some of us have!) and we all did things differently back in those youthful days.I can perfectly understand how anyone could have gotten involved in the violent conflict back then . I watched it happen.For someone …and especially someone in the southern media to pontificate on the rights and wrongs of communities confronting violence in a completely lop-sided civil and social disturbance, where the local authority and “law” enforcers were coming from the innards of only one side of the community and where the british deliberately took sides very early on in the unfolding conflict.They picked their side and that was the unionist side,even though unionism refused point-blank to change even slightly ….It is frankly preposterous to listen to some of them when they have no notion what actually happened here.
. Much of it depended on where exactly a person fitted into the social strata of the times and into what actual streets or housing estates you might have been born into.It depended on your family situation, your background, your friends and family and whether or not you had opportunities to move away or get out or not ..It depended too on who struck the first blow and how corrupt were the authorities of the day and how that was going to be dealt with after civil rights marchers were battered off the streets and people were burned out of their homes…or imprisoned without trial or simply hassled all the time in the streets. .
No one can sit and judge anyone else unless they’ve been there themselves….and for the likes of Dudley the Historian to come on and blame everyone else because they couldn’t stand that nonsense any more and pushed back, is actually ridiculous .We know it wasn’t pretty , but how do these people really think conflict begins? It doesn’t begin in some ivory tower high above the hoi polloi.It begins in the streets and in the dark .It begins when policemen think they can shoot you down on the street without redress because they are the law.
Give Martin McGuinness his due.He knew that progress would and will be eventually made when there is calm and mutual respect after seeing what tearing lumps out of each other brought only grief.Always remember too that that unionism had a vested interest in keeping the tension turned up and had to be dragged to negotiate an end finally …We’ve all been a long time waiting for any signs of that social respect across the board , but at least the man showed how it might come about.
paddy
We judge people all the time.
We judged Jimmy Saville thought he was never tried,we judge child killers as being heinous regardless of their circumstances,we judged Thatcher we judged Blair, we judge those who chose to go to war in a century ago,we judge loyalist killers for tit for tat killings, and yet when it comes to Martin we cannot point out that he may have been responsible for some pretty nasty stuff?
A lot of blinkers being worn around here.
A lot of blinkers being worn Gio? Seriously? Funny when ‘we judged’ all those you named above you more often than not, objected and cried foul, no evidence blah blah blah. God sakes you even object to the term ‘sweaty betty’. Is it an o.b.e you are after or what? Because I am pretty sure sweaty Betty has a thick enough skin not to be offended. Pretty sure she doesn’t read this blog either.
wolfie
What are you on about? Martin admitted himself he was a commander in the Derry Brigade.
Or perhaps you think there things Martin has not been completely honest about.
“What are you on about? Martin admitted himself he was a commander in the Derry Brigade.
Or perhaps you think there things Martin has not been completely honest about.”
As M.T would say……..eh?
The greatest blinkers of all are worn by those who fear to demand an end to the national security veto of british state involvement in the conflict.
Perhaps you don’t believe the british state was responsible for some pretty nasty stuff?
Perhaps you don’t really care as ignoring it suits your agenda?
As expected Theresa Villiers decision to move the Kincorra inquiry into the HIA which had no teeth to compel witnesses or even release the evidence already discovered by the English inquiry which led to Thatchers cabinet, has given the british intelligence services a clean bill of health.
I hope you are proud to be on the side of good, the side of truth, the side of justice.
Well done you.
Ah now Jessica, are you seriously suggesting the HIA had any other agenda other than getting the truth? Are you suggesting judge Hart isn’t impartial? And therefore implying our judiciary is somehow handpicked? Never never never Gio will say. Btw, has anyone noticed how various inquiries in britland, which had judges appointed to them, were based or worked in the sick counties during the troubles? Just sayin’.
Oh I don’t doubt they wanted to get to the truth at all WT, they just couldn’t, the very reason it was moved from an inquiry with powers to compel the evidence already found, to one which did not.
The move caused outrage at the time, but now time has passed I note and the very result the british state wanted has been achieved yet not one mention about the sickness of the british state over its cover ups of murder and abuse in Ireland.
Any wonder the last remaining survivor is losing the will to fight on.
I guess the same way the others lost the will to live.
Britain is one sick country.
Well gio .I’ll judge him too if i’m given a few specifics, although i’m really talking about his last twenty years or so in the public arena of politics .What he may or may not have done in the shadpws needs a bit more detail to make a real judgement. The war has been over fro many years after all….in time for a man to grow old and retire.
paddy
I don’t disagree with any of that. But you did seem to be specifically talking about his earllier heroic exploits.
I agree about specifics which is why in my very first post I said perhaps he will tell us the facts one day.
I simply want an honest appraisal warts and all and not this misty eyed vision we are offered by Joe and jessica.
We should not pretend these things did not happen.
I take it you are just as keen to hear the facts of the heroic exploits of the british forces here?
What you should also consider is that it was the republican movement that wanted a truth and reconciliation process, similar to the one in south Africa which would have given you all of the gory details, allowed all victims to know the exact circumstances their loved ones died in, warts and all.
It was refused because it required an amnesty for both sides and even if that had have been acceptable to unionists, the british state refused to participate because the truth of their activities would be simply too much for us to take and would risk our national security.
And no, we should never pretend these things didn’t happen, they very much did as many of us bore witness to, but we must be unbiased and fair in our demands for the truth and that includes removing the veto on british acts blocked by national security.
jessica
You are moving completely away from the topic which is Martin McGuinness.
There will be plenty of opportunities to talk about the evil Brits on other threads.
How can we talk about the man without including his time and his deeds in the PIRA?
That is my very simple point.
It is the language you use gio.
“There will be plenty of opportunities to talk about the evil Brits on other threads.”
This sounds like you are being flippant or even in denial about the actions undertook by the british state here or even the on-going actions as their army intelligence services are still operating here today, still paying agents to control and manipulate criminal gangs. Still turning a blind eye to select criminality and still controlling the PSNI from enforcing the law where it crosses their path.
The PIRA no longer exist, yet how sure are we that conflict will not start again while the british state still operate on a war footing and equality, fairness and impartiality are still not given a chance?
If you truly want to understand Martin McGuinness and his deeds in the PIRA, then you need to begin with what started the conflict and the circumstances which led him to embark on that path in the first place.
Unionist misrule, discrimination, the attacks on civil rights marches, RUC murders, the battle of the bogside where the RUC killed 8 and shot hundreds of Catholics.
That is public knowledge, what you want is the dirty secrets.
I am sure Martin would not be adverse to revealing those or a troubles or conflict museum, but it would have to be in the context of ensuring conflict never starts again and therefore it would need to be even handed and reciprocated by the british state who operated the FRU for example where british army out of uniform operated with total impunity from the law and murdered innocent men, women and children.
Are you seriously suggesting that truth recovery can be one sided?
Then again, all of your comments on the conflict are totally one sided.
Do you really believe the RUC did not kill first, that the british army did not encourage loyalist paramilitaries they armed, trained and instructed to kill innocent Catholics and later colluded with and controlled through agents while operating a black propaganda war?
Martin McGuinness was well respected in the IRA, we can conclude he was a good soldier and military leader.
He had a good mind and clearly that is why he was ideal to move into politics, where he excelled and because of his military background was able to deliver peace where very few others could have.
Why is it working class loyalists who faced the brunt of IRA violence can respect him, but armchair critics choose to bad mouth him?
Personally, I would like to build bridges with the loyalist community that suffered the most, to respect one another’s traditions and identity. But people like you gio from all parts of this island, I simply have no respect for and are the crap on the shoes of this society.
Well, gio, I certainly do not remember the late 1960s and 1970s as some rose-tinted sentimental time of heroic struggle and all that old bull but neither do I remember it as a lot of very bad men suddenly wanting to destroy the delights of a lovely society of equanimity and fairness, where the policemen lifted their helmets and said “good evening , ma’m” and all was as sweet as pie . It simply wasn’t. There were young teenagers shot dead in my own town .in fact possibly the first murder happened when B specials shot down an unarmed man. i don’t believe anyon ewas actually tried for that one.These things had huge repercussions in small communities where a friend or a brother …or simply a neighbour had beenmurdered .These things radicalised small communities and the decided to strike back in kind.Everyone didn’t respond like that but some obviously thought it was the only thing to do.
For a young person it was a very fearful time to be a teenager . Doing normal social things were fraught with dangers. There was social instability and crucially there was no real notion of reform being embraced by the state and the authorities.The opposite appeared to be the norm .Suppression. .It really depended on where you lived and your own micro-community as to how anyone might respond and that goes for the unionist side too. Very few nationalists at any level would have considered joining the police although some did.In the case of Martin McGuinness , he was not in the same space as someone like John Hume or a Seamus Mallon. They were both school-teachers…middle -class nationalists you might say, with all that is implied socially in that world.He was further down the pecking order socially although a very bright man and would be treated slightly differently .All of that makes you who you are,just as a working-class loyalist living in a little side street will have a different experience. That is why so many ended up in prison or involved in violent acts. It was communities response and it very much depended on which micro-community you might have inhabited.
In order to fight against a global military machine with infinite budget and resources, after almost imploding under the infiltration by state agents in the early 70s, thereafter the IRA became an isolated cell based structure with delegated control and as a result a degree of unavoidable autonomy and that is certainly the way I remember it in the 80s. Many cells did no more than waste british intelligence time, these people would run about drunk, starting fights, often coming out of police stations with bottles of buckfast that they never brought in with them, unaware of the misinformation they were feeding back into the system or that anyone even new what they were up to when everyone really did.
That is the type of dirty war it was.
The idea that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness sat in a room and decided every action and presided over every deed is ridiculous.
Sure, the buck stops at the top, and that is where the inevitable outcome must lead to, but the british state cannot be exempt from the same fate and the time is coming for full disclosure from all sides starting with removal of the veto on national security grounds of british state evidence of its true actions.
How can there be peace between both of these islands while this remains covered up and victims families left in limbo.
There has been too much one sided capitulation already and republicans can go no further before reciprocation from both governments is forthcoming.
In time, there will be no one with your memory of the truth Harry, and we will be left with gio types hell bent on one sided recrimination and that will only ever have one outcome.
Very good comment Joe.
It is incumbent on all Republican,Nationalists and right thinking Unionists to vote Sinn Fein in this election.
Regardless of disagreement with some of Sinn Feins policies some individuals may have it is essential you vote for them.
This election is as important as the GFA.
Elect Sinn Fein and their First Minister could teach some manners to the DUP.
If you had a PSF First Minister elected, he would immediately become joint First Minister. Then the crawling would really start. We have to show them that we’re not like them. We have respect for their culture etc etc. It would be our police force and our government and soon it would turn on the unbelievers or dissidents as they are called. Civil war again?
well written joe,
One can agree or disagree:but, the IRA took on a well trained, fully equipped army. Loyalist murder gangs murdered unarmed defenceless people. Was it not enough that they had the British army, UDR and the RUC to do their dirty work for them ? It was a war in which the state murdered its own people, and that is a war crime.
It was part of the British military war machine to use terror to try and suppress nationalists so, by definition, they are terrorists.
Martin McGuinness has done us proud, both as a soldier and, as a statesman.
moser
And of course they bravely took on a well trained fully equipped army of census takers bus drivers shopkeepers cooks and so on.
An inconvenient truth.
“And of course they bravely took on a well trained fully equipped army of census takers bus drivers shopkeepers cooks and so on. An inconvenient truth.”
Why is it inconvenient?
If conflict erupts again, do you think it will be any different?
Well it wont, if anything it will be more bloody, it will not be restricted to 6 counties and the bombs more likely to be in Dublin than London.
Conflict is reactive. The army shoot someone, it is witnessed by friends and comrades, they hit back, innocent people on the other side get killed, it is witnessed by their friends and comrades, they join in and so on, the cycle continues and each time more and more people are dragged in, making it ever harder to stop the more victims there are.
In the background we have political leaders playing war games, encouraging their foot soldiers to do their dirty deeds while they make political capital.
The anti is raised and the target pool becomes wider. None so wide as the instruction given by the british army. Their forces in FRU would operate out of uniform, they drove around in cars and riddled innocent men, women and children to make the community turn on the IRA.
They told the loyalist groups they armed and trained to hit unarmed catholic civilians for this reason, hence so many accidental protestants killed by loyalists.
That instruction came from the british army.
The UVF refused an instruction from Nairac in 1975 to murder 30 primary school children in south armagh after the reavy and kingsmill attacks, both also co ordinated by Nairac to break the IRA ceasefire and bring in the SAS which it did.
That also is not an inconvenient truth, it is harsh reality covered up to protect the image of the british state.
These things all happened and not only should they never be forgotten, they MUST be told in a conflict museum, including the role of the british forces no matter how embarrassing it is for them. Nothing less is acceptable.
Republicans don’t want the truth of the bloody conflict covered up, they want it out there so it can never happen again and can be used to stop other conflicts in other parts of the world.
Anyone taking a one sided approach to a conflict is a sectarian bigot and has nothing to offer.
They are very rarely one sided, though there is one side for whom the truth is very much an inconvenience, hence redactions, vetoes, cover ups and evidence locked away for decades, hidden behind rotten laws to deny the truth seeing light of day.
The truth will come out eventually gio, and when it does, the IRA will be honoured in this country.
That is going to happen and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to change it.
Gio, I respect your opinion.
moser, that is like saying you respect a dog for shitting on your carpet.
Jessica, I respect your opinion.
Are there any opinions you don’t respect?
jessica
What is the point in that?
The point I was making is that not everything is worthy of respect and that some things just have to be faced down and stopped, not tolerated
Moser
Your comment Jan. 20, 2017 at 9:49 pm –
“One can agree or disagree:but, the IRA took on a well trained,etc.”
is 100% spot on.
Maith thú !!
Go raibh maith agat Jack.
If you take the Queen’s shilling, you take the associated risks. And I don’t mean the DLA. An inconvenient truth?
You think dissidents don’t take the queens shilling or the DLA for that matter?
“And of course they bravely took on a well trained fully equipped army of census takers bus drivers shopkeepers cooks and so on.
An inconvenient truth.”
‘Everyone has/his or their part to play. No part is too big or too small……….’
Wise up Gio, your faux outrage is all too revealing. Embarassing stuff.
wolfie
I am just stating the facts. Address them or not its up to you,but don’t waste energy on man playing.
The murder of innocent mothers and young children, extortion of local business men, punishment beatings, knee cappings (some of them kids). The torture and dumping of bodies, some of who still have not been returned to their families. This is also what Martin oversaw at his time at the top and nothing to do with protecting his community. There is always a need for balance and no point in a pretty picture that only tells half the story.
Indeed, there is no pretty picture of a conflict Irish Rover, but it did start over one community unfairly discriminating and then attacking another with official state backing.
Having said that, there is also nothing we could do or should do to force that community to acknowledge that reality if it is determined not to, but Stormont should not be restored until all such legacy issues have been dealt with in a fair, equal and unbiased manner so our children and grandchildren are not trapped in an endless groundhog day of pointless recrimination while the state responsible covers up its own role.
It is futile to even try to implement devolved government while these issues remain unresolved.
Martin’s contribution to Irish politics ,in the six counties , is unequalled….there is no one of his caliber or bridge building ability on the Unionist side even if they wanted one and I think ,apart from his blinkered mindset , this is what’s annoying Giordanobruno .If Gio could name me one Unionist politician who has come with an outstretched hand to his fellow Irishmen on the Nationalist side I’ll be very astonished. Gio’s attitude is the personification of Unionism….blameless and faultless ad infinitum. We will never progress or develop meaningful and constructive politics until this insular attitude is abandoned and a dose of self administered reality is consumed by said Unionists…..I ardently believe , at present ,they would suffer any hardship and deprivation rather than confront the prospect of equality and parity of esteem. The idea of tolerating a Catholic/Republican with an opposing , but legitimate , political viewpoint is a complete anathema to them
Gio is either a very strange republican which is what he claims to be.
He wants a united Ireland and will support Sinn Fein when all of what he sees as the bad elements go away.
Or, he is what he sounds like to me, a unionist with an agenda, hence his second account he posts under called argenta to reassure himself every now and again.
It leaves him free to slate Sinn Fein and republicanism without having to support unionism as he claims not to be one.
I agree though, this type of divisive politics needs to end now. No more unionist, nationalist, republican or loyalist. We are all Irish, British, or both as we choose and our focus should be on growing our economy through working together.
There is no way we can do this with so many outstanding legacy issues not least the british state denying access to documents and evidence of its own past wrongs.
jessica
You are once again a liar.
Prove that Argenta and I are one and the same or withdraw it..
For once try and back up your nonsense.
Eolach
I have made no attempt to claim anything for any unionist politician.
As it happens I agree that McGuinness has been much more open to his opponents than any unionist I can think of. So I agree with you and it is what I have said before, if anyone bothered to read before replying.
My point,again is that in honestly appraising McGuinness we cannot simply pretend his time in the IRA did not happen or was somehow insignificant.
It is a vital part of who he is and should not be glossed over.
Gio, how could anything that a republican has said or done be glossed over….we are under the microscope 24/7 …365 days of the year. If the protagonist , the instigator of our troubles was under as much scrutiny , there would be no trouble……we , the native inhabitants of this island are constantly and continuously berated for being ourselves……we don’t want war , we don’t have nefarious ,shadowy ,murdering “operatives” lurking in the shadows …..we are ….and will be content to manage our own affairs without outside interference….in other words ….SINN FÉIN.
Eolach
But that is exactly what Joe is doing here. In appraising McGuinness he not only ignores his time in the IRA he berates a journalist for having the gall to mention it.
That will not wash.
Is duine dodhéanta tú…..imigh leat anois !