To all those republicans or nationalists out there that may consider casting a vote for People Before Profit at this election, I invite you to watch the video of the AAA/PBP Dail representatives addressing the issue of partition head on just a few years ago. To your amazement, they outlined very clearly that they were opposed to a border poll on Irish reunification and stated unequivocally that they thought it “sectarian” to ask over 800,000 “Protestants” to become part of a single Irish state. Odd of Marxists to label people’s politics based on their religion, mind you.
I have to say I was blown away at the crude nature of it, I thought only right wing Unionist fundamentalists used that sort of language. It is of course historically ignorant in that it ignores that the overwhelming majority of Irish people voted for independence in 1918 and were denied it, being drowned in a sea of blood thereafter. It’s also abundantly ignorant of the class war which partition perpetuates, and which PBP claim to articulate economically. I’ll explain what I mean – Ireland is a divided country, with two capitalist states on the one island competing against each other for investment from big business. As a result, the Irish labour movement is divided in two and partition is routinely used, as it was by past Unionist governments, to isolate the working class on this island from one another. When Ireland becomes one nation, working people will find common cause around their class interests and not their religion or nationality. So, partition in perpetuity serves the interests of the capitalist ruling clique on both parts of this island – Connolly verified this when he claimed that, “the cause of Ireland is the cause of labour; and the cause of labour is the cause of Ireland.”
Now any time I write about People Before Profit and their ambiguity on the partition issue, I get harangued by their supporters (many of them dye in the wool Loyalists, oddly enough) that actually they do now support a border poll. Let’s examine that in more detail. Theresa May is the British Prime Minister who has to administer Brexit despite her personally advocating for a Remain vote; When she stood for the leadership of her party, Andrea Leadsom rightly pointed out that those who always believed in Brexit should subsequently lead Britain as opposed to someone who is just changing their view according to the electorate’s expressed demand, because naturally they have no real affinity for the cause they will now pretend to advance and can have no real leverage over the relevant stakeholders involved therein. Why? Because they don’t and never really believed in it to begin with.
The same fundamental principle applies. No matter how many interviews they get people like Brid Smith to do, there is without question a grey area with them on this issue and they know that. When they campaigned for votes in the Shankill area of Belfast, they explicitly outlined that they cared nothing for the national question, which also happens to be the most important class question dominating this entire island. And they secured the electoral backing of die-hard Loyalists who know full well that they can use them to undermine the republican agenda. The Loyalist ideologues are political chess players in all of this, and they want to stale-mate the rise of Sinn Fein by insidiously advancing these Trotskyite obscurantists at the ballot box – dividing the nationalist vote and making it easier for the British to continue ruling over them. It’s not hard to understand when you think about it, we were a war-zone not that long ago after all.
Anyone who knows a thing or two about the politics of the 60’s and 70’s should recall the strange things and plotting that went on against Harold Wilson’s left wing government. The establishment and the right wing used political operatives and the media to set up rival parties and even to establish “communist” newspapers, to ridicule and undermine Tony Benn and the Wilson government. The SDP was set up and split the Labour vote, with the sole result of keeping Margaret Thatcher in power for over a decade. Both Peter Wright and Brigadier Frank Kitson bragged in their writings about running agents in the Worker’s Party here as part of a counter-insurgency against republicanism, stifling the affections of the Irish people into ever diminishing fractions. I am of course mentioning this solely for the purposes of stating that I think there should only be one political party representing republican voters, but with socialists working within it to build common cause and solidarity.
Now you can dismiss what I’m saying as rubbish if you please, but let’s be very clear about something, the armed struggle may have ended but there remains a class war in Ireland. There are jokers in every deck of card but no ace is beyond the realms of playability to the Bourgeois ruling clique, which parasite off of the Irish working class. You need to ask yourself what good a People Before Profit vote is going to do in an election which is ultimately going to be about how to advance the peace process and the equality agenda when both will depend entirely on Republican and Unionist representatives negotiating directly with each other and the British/Irish Governments. People Before Profit won’t even be at the negotiating table after this vote, so how exactly are they going to represent your interests?
The thing I find most frustrating about these people is the fact that most of them are intelligent enough to know the parody that exists therein on the division of Ireland. They know full well that no anti-austerity politics is fully plausible without the reunification of the Irish proletariat, who could then mobilise as a single economic bloc against the interests of the capitalism. It has not been my intention to use this article to accuse anyone of being iniquitous, all I hope to garner is clarity. I want People Before Profit to mention explicitly in their election literature that they stand for the reunification of the Irish people as a matter of priority at any given time in our politics. I want them to stop focusing on calling for revolution on the streets of the world and start working towards a real democratic revolution on the streets of Ireland.
Always wondered why Eamon MC cannot took so long to get elected I his own home town. Well I didn’t really, a landlord socialist doesn’t really mix well with anything. But there’s plenty of them in Ireland.
The popularity of People Before Profit is part of the reason why Sinn Fein collapsed the Executive. Chances are we’d still be limping on if they weren’t around.
What do you mean Ireland is two capitalist states?
Do you understand that there is no such thing as a capitalist state, there is only state capitalism but even in communist Russia or china there are private businesses and the only successful nations on this planet are as a result of the right balance of both state control and private led growth or capitalism?
How does the British NHS fit into your idea of what a capitalist state is for example?
Yes, partitioning a small island into two disparate economies will inevitably lead to them competing against each other which doesn’t take a genius to know is bad for both.
But if that is what Dublin wants, we hardly have any choice in the matter.
I am all for a united Ireland and working together to build a prosperous Ireland for all, but if the southern establishment don’t want us, what then?
The reality is, there are many who hold the views that the 6 counties are no longer part of Ireland and no longer wanted to be part of Ireland.
I am not going to beg to have my taxes added to the unholy mess they are making of the economy.
Let them shove their debt up their arses.
I say lets embrace the competition and take as much wealth out of Dublin as we possibly can.
Refuse to accept unity on their terms and make Ulster as economically strong as possible, perhaps even accepting division and bringing in other countries into a new Northern Ireland separate from a reduced Southern Ireland that can pursue our own independence from Britain.
As for your attacks on capitalism which your illiteracy of the subject is going to cost you more votes than you will lose to PBP anyway.
And who are the capitalist ruling clique here?
The biggest scourge on the Irish people from government is landlord TDs and it should be made illegal for any TD to own multiple properties or to rent property paid for out of the pubic purse.
Rent should be reduced and wages reduced in the public sector to reflect the reality of Irelands economy which is falsified by capitalisation of multi nationals in return for taxes in the region of 0.0001%.
There are gaping holes in the Irish accounting records which were identified by the EU which is revenue still actually owed to Ireland under the laws of the EU and amounts to over 19 billion euros.
Irelands EU contributions are being adjusted to account for this money in even though the tax revenue wasn’t collected and is costing the tax payer hundreds of millions every year.
When the US bring this capital back to the states, it will take a gaping chunk out of Irelands GDP and will push the debt to GDP ration back into the red.
There are no plans to counter this reduction in FDI other than Noonans hope that Ireland will get its fair share of financial sector leaving the UK over brexit.
Genius at work.
“I think there should only be one political party representing republican voters, but with socialists working within it to build common cause and solidarity.”
I couldn’t disagree more, I would like to see more republican parties, especially some with a better grasp of what capitalism actually is and who would be prepared to listen to the very businesses who are reviving our economy.
No one puts me off supporting Sinn Fein more than you do Donal.
PBP are irrelevant, your bumbled economic ramblings are giving them credence they do not deserve.
Enjoyed your post…and of course your 100% right
The stance of PBP/AAA on “Policy” is designed to totally confuse.
But their recent stance by abstaining in the Border Poll proposal in Stormont says it all, that by ‘Abstaining’ they succeeded in defeating the proposal, by one vote !
When I questioned Members as to why they took this position, I was told that they did not agree to the proposal that “Protestants” should be forced into a vote on “Northern Ireland” !
This position is set on in their joint policy I was told – but some PBP Members support a United Ireland, the AAA section are totally against the idea !
Constituent Voters in Belfast & Derry should bear this in mind when they are marking their ballot papers ?
These people are essentially Socialist Unionist Orange Loyalists – nothing more – nothing less !
I wonder should we stop referring to it as a border poll, and instead as an informed debate followed by a referendum.
Surely it is the opinions of businesses, economists and the views of both governments that must be heard and understood before there can be any vote?
I sometimes think a border poll is considered as a blind vote and therefore would be a stab in the dark. Interpretation is everything.
Donal clearly very spooked by PbP.
“It’s also abundantly ignorant of the class war which partition perpetuates, and which PBP claim to articulate economically. I’ll explain what I mean – Ireland is a divided country, with two capitalist states on the one island competing against each other for investment from big business. As a result, the Irish labour movement is divided in two and partition is routinely used, as it was by past Unionist governments, to isolate the working class on this island from one another. When Ireland becomes one nation, working people will find common cause around their class interests and not their religion or nationality. So, partition in perpetuity serves the interests of the capitalist ruling clique on both parts of this island – Connolly verified this when he claimed that, “the cause of Ireland is the cause of labour; and the cause of labour is the cause of Ireland.”
Yet you’re happy for the British Isles to be divided with two capitalist states on each island competing against each other for investment from big business?. As a result, the labour movement on the Isles would be divided in two and partition is routinely used to isolate the working class on the islands from one another.
If the British Isles became one nation, working people would find common cause around their class interests and not their religion or nationality. So, partition of the British Isles in perpetuity serves the interests of the capitalist ruling clique on both islands.
“Yet you’re happy for the British Isles to be divided with two capitalist states on each island competing against each other for investment from big business?.”
Are you suggesting that the British Isles is actually one island or just determinedly oblivious to the physical and geographic obstacles that exist between different islands separated by a sea?
“If the British Isles became one nation, working people would find common cause around their class interests and not their religion or nationality.”
I thought we had tried that over the past 20 years and the gap between working people on both islands was and still is actually widening and not in our favour.
If something isn’t working, is it not wise to consult businesses, economists and both governments to look at trying something new?
Do you have any thoughts of your own at all MT?
“Are you suggesting that the British Isles is actually one island or just determinedly oblivious to the physical and geographic obstacles that exist between different islands separated by a sea?”
Of course I’m not suggesting they are one island. Physical and geographical obstacles exist within countries everywhere: an irrelevant point. In the case of the British Isles, the Irish Sea has never been an obstacle to movement or trade.
“If the British Isles became one nation, working people would find common cause around their class interests and not their religion or nationality.”
“I thought we had tried that over the past 20 years and the gap between working people on both islands was and still is actually widening and not in our favour.”
Indeed. It’s not me arguing that the location of borders affects the gap between rich and poor. Take it up with Donal.
So what is your explanation as to why the standard of living in the 6 counties is continually falling behind the rest of the UK and what are your suggestions to turn it around MT?
It is plain to me that we would be better off focussing on the all island economy which is our natural and most essential need and why a customs border in Ireland is simply not going to happen, no matter how invisible it is. We simply cannot afford the additional tariffs and the border would have to be redrawn with the preference being around all 32 counties but at an absolute minimum 9.
A 6 county state is not economically viable and will not be acceptable to businesses here if there is a tariffed border inside this island.
I don’t think Donal understands business needs at all and has simply read up on karl marx which as you quite rightly point out is over his fear of competition from the PBP
“So what is your explanation as to why the standard of living in the 6 counties is continually falling behind the rest of the UK and what are your suggestions to turn it around MT?”
It’s not continually falling behind the rest of the UK. The standard of living in NI is relatively high.
“We simply cannot afford the additional tariffs and the border would have to be redrawn with the preference being around all 32 counties but at an absolute minimum 9.”
What additional tariffs and how do you know we couldn’t afford them? And why would the border have to be redrawn? Utter nonsense.
“A 6 county state is not economically viable and will not be acceptable to businesses here if there is a tariffed border inside this island.”
We are part of the UK. NI isn’t a separate state. How do you know there will be a ‘tariffed border’, why will it not be ‘acceptable to businesses here’ and how will they manifest this non-acceptance?
I think you’re right about Donal.
Got your definition of dissidents straightened out yet, a Dhómhnaill?
Tranona duit Donal, I’d look at the support this party (ies) obtain and why?
In Dub. South west, Sinn Fein were confident of taking another Dail seat but, were confounded by liss of mainstream political party support from those facing rates and water charges, which the aforementioned parties had, if not supported, at least being reticent to condemn, so Paul Donnelly took this, working class, seat, despite wealthy parties throwing resources at a win there.
Sinn Fein are now a mainstream party, in government in part of Ireland, PBP/AAA are, regardless of their view on partition, not going aeay, there was always a bit of sticky in our electorate.
Sinn Fein need to take votes off Fianna Fail and stop worrying about communism.
Ireland is not a far left socialist country and it is the centre left where the majority votes they need are.
Communism would destroy Irelands economy and the people know it.
Mark, to be fair SF didn’t win that seat in Dublin simply due to their sitting on the fence re water charges. Paul Murphy won it because he openly declared he wouldn’t pay the charge and encouraged everyone to do likewise. SF on the other hand said they wouldn’t pay but wouldn’t encourage ‘other people to break the law’, allthewhile their elected representatives had registered to pay the water charge, which suggested they were not genuine. Simply put, they were not radical enough and misjudged the feelings on the ground.
“The UK will have to play by international rules after it exits the European Union, limiting its ability to use tax breaks to woo investors”
Hard to believe this quote came from an Irish Finance Minister only yesterday but you have to give it to Noonan, he has a brass neck.
His party spent 250,000 on research for the 2016 election to come up with the slogan, keep the recovery going.
When the economic report due in the summer reporting on the EU findings over Apple, the truth about how much money has been thrown at multi nationals via IDA compared to domestic companies supported by enterprise Ireland should be an eye opener and among other things such as the 280 million gap in the pensions fund, the re emergence of the need for water charges, no money for social housing and public investment, impending collapse of the health service and when it all comes together it will lead to the absolutely inevitable collapse of the Dail later this year.
Fianna Fail will let on they knew nothing about it all having not been a visible partner in government and try to jump on the coat tails of public anger.
When Trump begins delivering on his threat to pull US investments back into the US and at the same time the UK begins its inevitable trade war with the EU resulting in trade tariffs for internal trade within this island and across the water to GB, over 40,000 jobs they reckon will be lost. I would imagine that is unrealistic and an conservative view based on the hope there will be at least 20,000 jobs coming in from the London financial sector post brexit which are not guaranteed as it would be inconceivable that the UK would not drop its corporate tax rate to ensure as much of them remain and they have already met with many of the remaining banks thinking about leaving, not to mention the uncertainty in Ireland as a choice over its dodgy tax record and the fact the EU has declared Ireland is already in breach of fair trade regulations which it is still investigating. Or that Ireland has already said it would consider leaving the EU if their tax rate was threatened and the EU is already pursuing tax harmonisation.
Seems a hell of a risk to me and I imagine Noonan will be in true FG/FF style stashing some of the publics loot away just in case early retirement looks a more attractive proposition later in the year.
If the absolute worse does come to fruition, is it wrong that I will almost feel delight in their financial strife.
As someone who all through my life tried to spend as much money as I could in the south to get it out of the north and who all my life saw Ireland as one country and one people with a part still under foreign occupation. How on earth could I end up feeling like this over the past year or so?
Well, I know the answer, it is the smug arrogance and selfish elitism shown by the southern establishment towards the Irish citizens in the north. The Celtic tiger came and people changed, their connections to other people changed with business links to GB and US, expensive cars, big houses and the debt struggles to pay for them all made the historic sectarian problems of Irelands past not worthy of the new debt ridden elite – led by the nose through a state purchased media.
On the bright side, perhaps if my fears to pan out, the people turning on both of these parties as well as their northern equivalents will be what unites the whole of the people of these islands.
From my own selfish point of view, brexit and Trump are the two best things that will have happened to Ireland in a long time. There are more important things in life than making the elite disgustingly wealthy and perhaps a reset will be just what the doctor ordered. The one that Apple a day has been keeping away.
SF would need to tone down their language and arrogance if they are seeking people’s votes. In case they have not been paying attention, an awful lot of people, for whatever their reasons, have decided not to lend them their vote in previous polls. I am sure some people vote PBP as a protest vote or because their message resonates with them, but for shinners to stand on their lofty perch and claim they are right and others are wrong just won’t cut it anymore. Blind faith is long gone. If you want people to lend you their vote then at least be humble about it and most of all don’t assume you own it.
WT
Don’t PBP/AAA need to honestly declare whether their Number Two’s should go to Sinn Fein or to Unionist Parties so ?
Presently , they claim the Unionist position !
Yes Eddie, if that’s the case then they should declare but I know very little about them as they don’t stand in my area. If they claim the unionist position then they should be challenged on it.
I think what WT was suggesting Eddie, was that if Sinn Fein do the right thing, people from whatever background, if it resonates with them will support them.
If they don’t, they wont and bad mouthing political opponents especially as in Donals case, on the economics front anyway, he hasn’t a baldy clue what he is talking about and it is not really helping his cause anyway.
The people who are doing the most damage to Ireland, not only the prospects of reunification but the country in general are Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.
Sinn Fein need to focus on eating into their votes and not concern themselves with communism.
The people of Ireland are not fools, the next elections in both parts of this island, I expect one in the south by the autumn, will say a lot about what type of future Ireland will have.
Donals arguments are becoming increasingly desperate if not repetitive. You’ve learned well from your British partners that even bad press can be effective.
You invite nationalists/republicans considering voting for PBP to watch a PBP/AAA interview from a FEW years ago in which there is ambiguity about Irish Unity. This particular interview is relevant because it suits Donals single party agenda. He later says it is doesn’t matter how many interviews Brid Smith does, even though they are as recent as this week and she is speaking clearly in favour of Irish Unity as PBP policy. It doesn’t matter to Donal because it is unambiguous and contradicts his grey area theory.
Donal claims when he writes on PBP ambiguity on Unity he gets harangued by their supporters, many of them dyed in the wool loyalists. Again learning from British partners and feeding sectarianism by this casual inference at loyalist support. If he was concerned about loyalists why is he addressing his plea to nationalist/republicans who may vote PBP. His suggestion that loyalists want to stalemate the rise of Sinn Fein but I believe loyalists have long ago copped on that Sinn Fein pose no real threat to the union. Do you not think they would have more to fear from a party that risks splitting the unionist vote. After all there is no shortage of disgruntled unionist working class voters who like nationalists have no one to represent them. I’m a former Sinn Fein Cllr and my objections to Continued support for Sinn Fein are based on their failure to even attempt to stop the privatisation of Public Services and the fact that unification is no longer a priority.
Sinn Feins position on Irish Unity is no different to any of the other parties. They have all agreèd that there will be no constitutional change until the people of the north vote for it. Asking for a border poll now was only a diversionary tactic. The only possible benefit was that it triggered the ability to request another poll within 7years.
In a return to the learned behaviour Donal suggests that PBP are pawns of the British state. He refers to Peter Wright and Kitson bragging about counter insurgency tactics of running agents within the Workers Party to divide the working classes and weaken Republicanism. This subtlety implies that this is the case with PBP while the evidence demonstrates clearly that it was and is Sinn Fein who have been compromised in this way. I take no joy in saying that bu the facts speak for themselves. No PBP member has been exposed as a British Agent or misguided tool of the state. The fact is the British tactic worked, they now have Sinn Fein exactly where they want them, they are codependent. Donal says there should be one party representing Republican voters, but with socialists working within it to build common cause and solidarity. Donal, Sinn Fein were supposed to be that party but they have failed on turning electoral strength into political power, to either advance Republicanism sufficiently and they have failed miserably at pursuing any form of socialist agenda. As for solidarity, I can accept they had people who would never work with them but they must also learn that they’ve become elitist and stamp on people with a like minded agenda. That is unforgivable as the priority should be the job at hand, not who delivers it.
You need to ask yourself, according to Donal, what good a vote for PBP is going to do in an election which is going to be about advancing the Peace Process and the Equality Agenda. Donal asserts that PBP won’t even get to the table and that negotiations will be entirely between Republican and Unionist Reps, and the Brit/Irish governments. Jesus Donal do you not see how ridiculous that point is. Firstly Sinn Fein said there would be no negotiations but you seem to know the craic so fair enough. Secondly this is not just about advancing the Peace Process and the equality agenda. This is about Partners in government who are not equal, it’s about people living in poverty, food banks, health crisis, housing crisis, homelessness, victims, corrupt politicians, decreasing budgets and brexit. More importantly it’s about those who have been entrusted over and over again to address these issues completely failing to do so. Over half the population if you include those who can’t be arsed registering couldn’t care less who sits at the table anymore because they have no evidence to suggest it will make a difference. So to say PBP won’t be at the table is not a good enough reason not to vote for them, in fact it might be the very reason people do vote for them. If the discussion at the table is as you suggest I think we need people in there who are going to pursue issues that matter or to use your term, they will represent people’s interests.
Donal claims PBP are fully aware that no anti austerity politics is fully plausible without the reunification of the Irish proletariat, who could then mobilise as a single economic bloc against the interests of capitalism. Let’s assume for a second that your right, why then are Sinn Fein claiming they stopped Tory Austerity measures. Why are they promising to block austerity measures in the Dail? So again assuming Donals right, are we just to sit on our hands, live on our knees and wait to unity jumps up and bites us in the arse. Strangely that does seem to be the way of it so far, but it doesn’t have to be. We can change a great many things in Stormont and try to change them in the Dail by changing policy, creating jobs that people can actually afford to take, nationalise existing public services, create a socialist society that brings equality with it and show, not tell our neighbours that they’ve nothing to fear from change. Let them help deliver that change and let them know their identity, history and culture are welcome. We should want to share this island not dictate the definition of someone’s identity. Funny thing this equality, it’s for everyone.
Donal wants PBP to mention explicitly in their election literature that they stand for the reunification of the Irish people as a matter of priority at any given time in our politics. He also wants them to stop focusing on calling for revolution on the streets of the world and start working towards a democratic revolution on the streets of Ireland.
Donal I don’t know you but have you ever heard of a fella called Trump? He thinks he can dictate to people too and it’s often a case of do as I say not as I do. Have Sinn Fein to stop taking an interest in global injustice too? Are you suggesting PBP maybe should just say nothing on Palestine, American foreign policy or anything outside of Ireland. Donal You Are The Boy right enough,
Sinn Fein are the ONLY party making a serious effort to unite this country and that includes bringing the protestant/unionist/loyalist community with them.
That is a fact. I didn’t even look at the video Donal posted because the AAA/PBP are communists and that in my eyes is worse than them being pro british.
The more Sinn Fein sound like far left socialists never mind communists, the less people including myself will be interested in voting for them all over Ireland.
That is another FACT.
Martin McGuinness has spent the last 10 years reaching out to unionist and to the british people to encourage them to put the past conflicts behind us, to start treating one another with respect, to engage in meaningful reconciliation. That means respecting the unionist pro british traditions and accommodating them.
If they reciprocate then I can live with that, if they cannot and that is what these negotiations will be about post election, then it will be cultural warfare and a game of numbers which will not be helpful in growing our economy. I am in tow minds as to whether or not I want to go this route. I certainly did not so long ago.
Sinn Fein have done more to reach out for unionist support than the PBP have so Donals point is ridiculous.
Sinn Feins whole strategy is based on gaining support from that community and therefore potentially splitting the unionist vote.
To criticise the PBP for reaching out to unionists is not only grossly hypocritical but insulting to the intelligence of the electorate.
Donal started off well in his blogs but more recently they are more likely to put me off Sinn Fein and therefore voting altogether as there is no other party I could support at the moment unfortunately. Indeed, it is disappointing that republicanism proved incapable of producing an alternative voice to support Irish unity either north or south. I have given up hope of one appearing at this stage.
I can only conclude that uniting this country is no longer as important to the majority of people north and south than it was in my day.
Something unionism should indeed take heart from.
The truth is, the vast majority of the people of Ireland are not socialists and never will be, they may pay lip service out of guilt at their support for a united Ireland, but are only interested in their bank balance and don’t give a shit about the Irish citizens in the north who through divisions fostered by the southern establishment and its media we are no longer Irish anyway, but british.
I was called a brit by a limerick man on the day of the Easter rising centenary celebrations while I was staying at a house in Dublin.
That is a true reflection of the Ireland of today.
“inn Fein have done more to reach out for unionist support than the PBP have so Donals point is ridiculous.
Sinn Feins whole strategy is based on gaining support from that community and therefore potentially splitting the unionist vote.”
It is?
“Asking for a border poll now was only a diversionary tactic. The only possible benefit was that it triggered the ability to request another poll within 7years.”
Actually the opposite is the case. There can be no border poll within seven years of the last one.
I split the response up as there is a lot in your comment Michael.
There are loyalists who are better at speaking the Irish language than the majority of the nationalist community are including myself.
What does that say to you?
Martin McGuinness spent considerable time and effort reaching out to unionists from the top.
We all know this was not reciprocated from political unionism and if anything was vehemently opposed, but it has been reciprocated from unionism on the ground many of whom have in fact been more closely linked to loyalist paramilitarism and who seek no recognition, praise or even reward for their efforts.
A lot of time is spent by many focussing on the damage republicans and loyalists did in the past, over 20 years past now.
How much effort is put into supporting the efforts these people of past violence are putting into reconciliation and reaching out to one another today?
They deserve much more of our support and indeed praise.
You say Sinn Fein offer no threat to the union.
I agree, they have not been threatening anyone and have had parity of esteem and the principal of consent at their core.
I have no issue with this.
I would have liked to see an alternative republican party pursuing Irish independence from britain more forthrightly, but none ever came and there is no longer any point. Sinn Fein cannot move beyond doing the right thing.
Many working class loyalists have praised Sinn Feins efforts to help their own community and even condemned their own unionist parties for being more focussed on the union regardless the cost and economic pain in the most impoverished of their own community.
Sinn Fein have got many in fact most things right, but clearly not all.
The vehement and degrading opposition from Dublin towards Irish unity or even respect of nationalists in the north could hardly have been expected or anticipated.
If anyone should be pointing towards co-dependency with britain, look no further than the southern establishment.
The true opposition of Irish unity is now being run out of Dublin.
Sinn Fein will have no political power until they win over Dublin.
So called republicans with their head in a 6 county bubble who don’t even see the real enemy any more.
A 6 county state has its hands economically tied, talk of socialism fixing things is lunacy the 6 county state still hasn’t broke even never mind in a position to invest in public services or anything else on your wish list.
Can I assume the policies of the PBP in funding this are basically to beg harder to London for more money and for them to stop privatising the public services.
You are not going to persuade England to become a socialist state or to finance a socialist nirvana in the part of Ireland britain cares for least.
It is Dublin that britain wants, not the north. The once second city of the british empire that is already in their pocket, getting financial assistance and political guidance. Enda Kenny has taken their lead well and left Ireland totally unprepared for a brexit that goes against UK wishes.
Ireland is an all island economy, why do you think brexit has such devastating potential and putting such a strain on the parties who have already sold Irelands soul to britain, to help a friend in need, indeed?
The truth is, things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.
This election is not about returning Stormont Michael.
It is about saving the GFA and that will be through the negotiations that follow.
Sinn Fein have not said there wont be any negotiations, I don’t know where you got that from.
The negotiations have been scheduled and will last for three weeks.
If the outstanding issues are not resolved and I doubt the british government will have even got involved by that stage so they wont be, any further elections called would highlight the failure for devolution and I see no other option than suspending Stormont indefinitely until all outstanding issues are resolved once and for all.
There will be no return of Stormont or devolution.
I dont know how you would feel, but the thought of centenary celebrations of partition, with union flags all over the north while the veto on british violence remains, the Irish language is still not recognised, with twice as many orange marches to rub it all in sounds hard for me to swallow.
But not half as much as the Irish tri colour being raised all over the south promoting the 26 county Ireland which we are excluded from, reinforcing partition is here to stay, that republican scum are not welcome in the more refined and respectable part of Eire.
We are approaching the centenary of the last civil war in Ireland.
I could never understand how that came about. I understand it perfectly well today.
“This election is not about returning Stormont Michael.
It is about saving the GFA and that will be through the negotiations that follow.
Sinn Fein have not said there wont be any negotiations, I don’t know where you got that from.”
Negotiations? But you said SF wouldn’t be returning to government.
If Sinn Fein out of the negotiations deliver a drop of the veto on national security which allows the british to cover up the truth of their role in the conflict, deliver government guarantees over parity of esteem in the form of a parades commission style body punishing sectarianism and rewarding fairness in government, the implementation of an irish language act, the release of funding to complete legacy and the go ahead for the maze project and the decades of investment in building a thriving economy with a troubles museum at the core of a successful tourism industry.
If they deliver these which they have declared is a line in the sand, then I will not only eat my words and support a return to Stormont, I would support it replacing the Dail as where I would look to my Ireland being ruled from.
If they go back into Stormont without delivering this line in the sand, then I am finished with Ireland period never mind Sinn Fein.
“If they go back into Stormont without delivering this line in the sand, then I am finished with Ireland period never mind Sinn Fein.”
Let’s hope it happens, then. The more extremists who are marginalised the better.
London and Dublin’s thoughts exactly MT.
“London and Dublin’s thoughts exactly MT.”
Most people’s thoughts.
Once last point Michael,
You claim to be for the working class, the impoverished who have not benefitted from globalisation where the wealthiest got wealthier than ever before and a new class of poor revived the term proletariat.
Those are the people who voted for Donald Trump.
It is the well off liberal fancy pants who are on the streets objecting to him.
His wall around Mexico regardless of the ethics will stop hundreds of millions of dollars going back to Mexico each year untaxed and offer many jobs to Americans as well as make it much harder for the vast quantities of drugs flooding America from Mexico to get in.
.
I would support Donald Trump and I hope he does help the poorest of Americans who elected him to get the jobs he has promised them.
I support his opposition to globalisation his pursuit of a more nationalist agenda.
I am not clear on whether you are for or against his policies though.
“You claim to be for the working class, the impoverished who have not benefitted from globalisation where the wealthiest got wealthier than ever before and a new class of poor revived the term proletariat.
Those are the people who voted for Donald Trump.”
The most impoverished voted for Clinton.
If you believe that, you haven’t been paying attention, though that is hardly surprising
But what Sinn Fein should pay attention to, is that is was not only the poor white vote which got him through, but the middle vote. People like myself who are employers who will be fine economically regardless, but who pay above the living wage even though my competition doesn’t, who support nationalism and helping domestic business above multi nationals, who know that a nations core wealth comes not from FDI but domestic growth.
Technology is changing but the basics remain the same.
At the moment in Ireland, Fianna Fail has the hopes for the middle Irish.
Sinn Fein will not grow any further among the socialist left, if they fail to attract middle voters and drive away people like myself their project is finished.
“If you believe that, you haven’t been paying attention, though that is hardly surprising”
That can only.make sense if you mean I haven’t been paying attention to false news.
you pay above the living wage..i thought you said you paid 8quid an hour how could you live on that.
I have different businesses doing different things. £8 is the lowest wage I pay and more then the competition I contend with work for in that area which is why I subsidise it from other parts.
What hourly rate would be sufficient to live on billy?
I would be quite happy to raise this if my competition were forced to also.
Then all of our customers would have to pay more to suit, they would in turn raise prices for their goods and services and so on, until the new cost of living is once again crap and we do it again and again.
That is how it played out in the south in order to keep house prices rising so the landlords could keep getting wealthier.
Then there is welfare, if prices go up to keep the working well paid, not fair not to dish out more money to those unable or unwilling to work. I mean, who would want to work for £8 per hour? It is actually a problem I have as for many they are better off on credits that working for £8 per hour would not be worth their while
Then you end up with a 280 million annual deficit in the pensions budget, public services are going on strike to not only get more money but to demand back all of the missed pay increases over the austerity period driving the gap between the private sector who actually pays their wages who once again feel shafted.
The public sector then say, not our fault, pay the private sector more money and we go through the cycle once more. Debt keeps getting higher, what do we do.
Lets open borders and bring in immigrants by the truck load and tolerate illegals who will work for buttons. This leads to a divide between corrupt employers who will use and abuse these people and those who wont who are no longer able to grow as the government has no spare cash to invest in growth.
Open borders leads to dodgy tax areas popping up and eventually the immigrants demand better conditions threatening legal action if not provided. Employers are on tenderhooks as they can be fined heavily and legislation is not in their favour. Immigrants get away with more than locals do and resentment kicks in. The immigrant class are seen as being treated better than local nationals who have less rights it appears in their own land.
Human nature being human nature is unavoidable and we get brexit and trump.
Where do we go from here?
Well, you tell me billy.
It doesnt matter what these spoofers say their actions are quite clearly taking us further away from a UI. At the 2016 election PBP did really well great. A quick 2 second look at the results shows the overwhelming majority of their transfers going to SF and SDLP you could literally count on one hand the transfers to Unionist parties. To then POST election designate as other is rather odd. Now here is the thing designation isnt just some sort of tokenism to be used as an outreach to Unionists/loyalists who wont vote for you anyway its an integral part of how stormont works and until some sort of weighted majority system is in place we are stuck with it. Now if we are ever going to have a referendum on unity the SoS will look at the raw data. He will see that Nationalists hold around 38% of the seats in the assembly and about 38% of the popular vote. He is NOT going to say ah but sure the PBP in some interviews have said they are pro unity just like he is not going to second guess what every green and alliance mla wants no he wll make the brutally honest assessment that 38 is a long way away from 50 hence a vote for “other” PBP is sending the wrong message.
Secondly i dont care what you think of EU bureaucracy, as Ireland is so pro europe and never going to leave then how can you back Brexit and not realise that it will cause all sorts of problems and divisions on the island its just dumb.
“It doesnt matter what these spoofers say their actions are quite clearly taking us further away from a UI.”
In my own view, it is the actions of the southern establishment that are indeed taking us away from a UI, at least one that I would support and have been promoting deeper divisions in Ireland than ever before.
I would be very interested to hear what actions you believe are taking us further away from a UI?
“At the 2016 election PBP did really well great. A quick 2 second look at the results shows the overwhelming majority of their transfers going to SF and SDLP you could literally count on one hand the transfers to Unionist parties. To then POST election designate as other is rather odd. ”
Not if they were genuine in wanting to have a voice in Stormont to support people not happy with how things are going and have deprioritised uniting Ireland which is a perfectly valid view point and not one anyone should have to defend.
“Now if we are ever going to have a referendum on unity the SoS will look at the raw data. He will see that Nationalists hold around 38% of the seats in the assembly and about 38% of the popular vote. He is NOT going to say ah but sure the PBP in some interviews have said they are pro unity just like he is not going to second guess what every green and alliance mla wants no he well make the brutally honest assessment that 38 is a long way away from 50 hence a vote for “other” PBP is sending the wrong message.”
Do you think it matters one jot what raw data Stormont could provide if Dublin does not want a border poll.
It would be rather embarrassing would it not, if a SOS came out with ok, lets have a fair and impartial discussion on the pros and cons of uniting Ireland, lets hear from all the best economists, business leaders and community representatives, then let the people make an informed choice in a referendum.
Only to have Dublin say, hold on, we didn’t say this was ok you know.
Unity may well be inevitable in the long run, the problem is the format that unity takes.
The question you should ask yourself, is why is the southern establishment not promoting Irish unity, reaching out to all sections of the north as Martin McGuinness did to unionism and to britain?
Why is it that Dublin is not only always on the same page as London, but it would appear that London is actually providing the pages for Dublin to be on in advance?
“Secondly i dont care what you think of EU bureaucracy, as Ireland is so pro Europe and never going to leave then how can you back Brexit and not realise that it will cause all sorts of problems and divisions on the island its just dumb.”
The problems with the EU go way beyond bureaucracy. They are seeking to build a political union. That means a united states of Europe, where Ireland would be no different to Hawaii in the USA. We would vote for a EU wide president, not an Irish president, we would contribute to the EU army and support financially and politically military decisions made in the Brussels, Berlin proxy, they are introducing tax harmony and fiscal controls of member nations.
There is not a chance in hell of Ireland remaining in the EU.
Businesses are being deliberately left in limbo over brexit, there is no plan B.
It doesn’t take a genius to work out why.
When employers start sending out letters of notice that jobs are under threat to remain in the EU, lets see then how pro Europe Ireland will be then.
“It doesnt matter what these spoofers say their actions are quite clearly taking us further away from a UI. ”
Not everyone is obsessed by sectarian border politics. People have lives to lead in the real world.
You can continue with real politics and have an opinion on the border you know.
Sorry, but you cannot discuss real politics and ignore the border.
Businesses are about at the end of their tether. Some will be in a position to cope with a hard border, the majority will not and the impact will go very deep and very wide.
No one will escape a bad outcome and the shift in opinion will be both unanimous and unambiguous all over this island.
Which unfortunately is why a bad outcome is exactly what I think we need.
The people have lost all control of Ireland north and south and a reset button needs to be hit.
“You can continue with real politics and have an opinion on the border you know.”
Of course you can. But you don’t need to obsess about what everyone else’s opinion on it is and make it your driving force in every decision you make.