‘Nicola Mallon & Caral Ni Chuilin: The Battle for Hearts & Minds In North Belfast’ by Donal Lavery

 
I think it’s important to write about things which are near and dear to people. Without doubt, the most popular articles are those with a local edge to them because people can fully relate to the context therein. And a subject which has crossed my mind a lot lately is how the reduction in MLAs will impact on my own area of North Belfast.

The truth is, no party wanted to see the number of Assembly seats reduced because ultimately it means fewer colleagues sitting on the blue benches on the hill. But following Mrs. Foster’s refusal to step aside for an investigation, republicans asserted the will of their own electorate by collapsing the very institutions which were keeping her in office. This happened with the knowledge that an early election could mean some loss in terms of seat numbers, but on principle it was the right thing to do to ensure some sort of accountability and the expressed wishes of the electorate. It would undoubtedly have been very easy to “keep the show on the road” by remaining in office with an inquiry ongoing, but that would raise questions about how impartial such an investigation could be given the patronage each Minister has in their own departments.

Now, come March 2nd you are going to be asked to elect five MLAs instead of the previous six seats which existed. Anyone who knows North Belfast is conscious of the demographics, the inequalities, the problems and indeed the positives, which make up the community there. This is an area which has been impacted enormously by the legacy of the Troubles and decades of Unionist misrule since the inception of the Orange state. There is barely a home you could visit where someone hasn’t been affected by the conflict in this part of Ireland. But likewise, many people in the area, including in the more affluent suburbs, have also been impacted by the flaws in the economic model which Britain imposes on Ireland.

The pundits have predicted, and perhaps with some foresight, that the battle for the last seat in North Belfast could fall between Sinn Fein, the SDLP and the DUP, but that it will likely be a contest between the two nationalist parties. I’m a young person and I’ve read with interest all the election literature which has crossed my door, as well as having spoken to all the candidates who have been seeking votes. Sinn Fein have been to my door three times already and have answered any points I’ve put to them, and it hasn’t just been ordinary party members but also the people seeking election have been there on cold dark nights. Yes I’m a Sinn Fein voter but I make use of my transfer vote and want to hear what everyone has to offer accordingly. The SDLP haven’t canvassed my street once and the election is just a week away.

But who I vote for is based on two things – track record and objectives if elected. From a young age, Caral Ni Chuilin has always been a friendly face about the area. The first time I met her was when my youth club organised a community breakfast for the older people in the area, whereby they would come to a local community hall to have tea and pastries which we fundraised  to tackle isolation, and could tell the youth a bit about their lives in the area. We put the invitation out to all the elected representatives and only Sinn Fein bothered sending someone to meet with us and the elderly.

From then on in, I’ve encountered Caral at many things – whether it’s helping to lift glasses and clear up after Fleadh music events in the old Saint Kevin’s Hall (I don’t think many other MLAs would do that); or working with mental health groups and community organisations in the area; and also trying to ease tensions at all the local interfaces each marching season. She has a detailed track record, namely;

– A new Irish language school for North Belfast; helping to retain free medical prescriptions; the granting of unprecedented levels of funding to youth clubs; standing with staff and users to defend the Mater Hospital; working to get a parading deal resolution in Ardoyne; fighting to keep the Everton Complex open; securing a large number of social housing units at Girdwood; securing a leisure and football facility at Girdwood; ensuring more money for mental health; advocating on behalf of ex-prisoners; fighting to prevent any increase in student fees (having also voted against the SDLP and UUP implementing fees here in the first place); job creation via the University of Ulster redevelopment; rehousing families who find themselves homeless and holding the police to account in providing a community-oriented service. She also stood with the children and families affected by Holy Cross and with the many women’s groups throughout this constituency.

Having a son who is university age, she knows the sort of issues which students face. And culturally, she doesn’t just say she supports the Irish language, her children have attended Irish language schools and actively promote it. Some people are looking at the candidates for this area and thinking that Miss Mallon is young and of a new generation, but without taking note of the fact that her views and record really don’t account for much in respect of defending the interests of all the people in this area. Politics is about the clash of ideas and who will do right by you in office; it’s about who people stand with when the going gets tough; so don’t cast your vote for someone because of their age or their gender, with the naivety that those factors will make them a good advocate on your behalf when their party and record don’t exactly indicate that at all.

The difference between Miss Mallon and Caral Ni Chuilin is perhaps best highlighted by the fact that Caral actually lives in the working class areas who elect her to represent them; She isn’t sitting in the cosy confines of an MP’s office in South Belfast, or enjoying a new middle-class lifestyle funded by the tax-payer. She’s an ordinary person with a family of her own and thus knows what it’s like to struggle and what working class people need locally in order to thrive. Likewise, she demonstrably understands the sort of challenges which ex-prisoners face, as opposed to someone (who comes from a republican family) but who is a member of a party (the SDLP) which is vehemently anti-ex-prisoners in allowing the passage of Jim Allister’s rotten SPAD legislation. Likewise, on the same-sex marriage issue, Caral has always been one of the biggest advocates for it in the Assembly when some of Miss. Mallon’s party colleagues have helped to block it.

However, when it comes to the scrutiny of Miss Mallon’s record, if I’m honest there really isn’t a lot to scrutinise. She seems to think that by moving her office to the top of the New Lodge Road people are automatically going to deem her a champion of the working class in North Belfast. Anyone who follows community developments and campaigns here, particularly in our local newspapers, can see firsthand that Nicola Mallon’s presence in this area is usually lacking.

What you’re voting on come March 2nd is who you want to sit down and negotiate for your best interests with not just all the other parties but with the British and Irish Governments, to broker the best possible deal for ordinary people. So the question falls to you – Do you want someone who works for a limited average industrial wage and is an experienced Minister, from North Belfast, of North Belfast, and for North Belfast; or do you want to elect someone who is evidently out to simply make a political career for herself, while receiving scores of thousands of pounds in a full MLA’s salary? Ask, who genuinely represents the people of North Belfast in this election?

 

 

52 Responses to ‘Nicola Mallon & Caral Ni Chuilin: The Battle for Hearts & Minds In North Belfast’ by Donal Lavery

  1. MT February 26, 2017 at 4:06 pm #

    Or do you want to vote for someone with a clean expenses record or someone who used public money to enrich her common-law brother in law?

    http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/sinn-fein-expenses-row-caral-ni-chuilin-forgot-to-say-she-paid-relative-11320-30855261.html

    • philip kelly February 27, 2017 at 10:04 am #

      Any comment on this little matter MT would seem that the DUP have been fiddling the books for a long time , not to count CHAPTER 21 NAMA , ASHES FOR CASH

      The DUP’s full role in Red Sky row revealed
      12 September 2012
      Peter Robinson and Robin Newton lobbied for Red Sky extensionPeter Robinson and Robin Newton lobbied for Red Sky extension
      BY BARRY MCCAFFREY
      IT was a row which culminated in the termination of a lucrative £7m contract and the resignation of a Housing Executive chairman. Today The Detail can reveal the lengths to which First Minister Peter Robinson and the DUP went to protect discredited contractors Red Sky.

      The Assembly’s Public Accounts Committee will today discuss a Northern Ireland Audit Office (NIAO) report which has been highly critical of the Housing Executive’s management of multi-million pound maintenance contracts.

      Much of the criticism centres around the Housing Executive’s handling of a £7m maintenance contract with the Red Sky group.

      The contract was finally terminated in July 2011 following concerns that the company had engaged in a widespread practice of overcharging and evidence of suspected fraud.

      But the effort the DUP, and in particular First Minister Peter Robinson, devoted to preventing the Housing Executive from cancelling the Red Sky contract can only now be fully revealed for the first time.

      The contents of a series of letters, emails and meetings between the NI Housing Executive (NIHE) and DUP politicians, obtained by The Detail under Freedom of Information (FoI), reveal the huge political pressure which was placed on NIHE officials in a bid to force them to overturn a decision to terminate the Red Sky contract, despite overwhelming evidence of wrongdoing.

      Extract from official NIHE minute of meeting with DUPExtract from official NIHE minute of meeting with DUP
      ROBINSON ACCUSES HOUSING EXECUTIVE OF SECTARIAN BIAS AGAINST RED SKY
      Red Sky went into voluntary administration on April 19, 2011 three months after the conclusion of a Housing Executive investigation into its maintenance contracts.

      The Detail can now reveal the contents of a crucial meeting between senior DUP politicians and NIHE officials which took place nine days after Red Sky went into administration.

      The DUP delegation, led by First Minister Peter Robinson, included east Belfast assembly members Robin Newton and Sammy Douglas.

      The Housing Executive was represented by then chairman Brian Rowntree, acting chief executive Stewart Cuddy and housing director John McPeake.

      A minute of the meeting, taken by Mr Rowntree’s secretary, records how Mr Robinson opened the discussion by claiming that the decision to terminate the Red Sky contract “reflected a sectarian bias on behalf of the Housing Executive”.

      Mr Robinson claimed the Housing Executive was treating Red Sky differently from other contractors and claimed unnamed politicians in west Belfast had orchestrated a campaign against the company.

      Mr Robinson warned the Housing Executive officials they could expect an enquiry into the decision to terminate the Red Sky after the assembly elections, which were due to take place the following month.

      It is unclear whether Mr Robinson was speaking in his role as First Minister or as an assembly member for east Belfast.

      Mr Rowntree “categorically denied” any sectarian bias or political interference against Red Sky and insisted that the decision to terminate the contract had been made entirely on commercial grounds.

      When Mr Robinson requested a “definitive reason” why the Red Sky contract had been terminated he was informed it was because the company had been overpaid by £340,000.

      Executive officials warned that the real figure could be £1.5m.

      However, the official minute of the meeting states:

      “Mr Robinson said in his opinion Housing Executive staff must bear some of the blame for overpayments, given that it was their responsibility to check the invoices from Red Sky, particularly in the case of invoices relating to buildings which are no longer in existence.”

      Mr Robinson’s colleague Robin Newton claimed there had been a “politically inspired” campaign against Red Sky.

      Following the assembly elections in May 2011 The DUP’s Nelson McCausland became Social Development minister.

      The Detail has obtained minutes of a meeting which the new DSD minister held with Red Sky representatives on June 27.

      The Red Sky representatives were accompanied by a DUP delegation, again led by Peter Robinson.

      Despite the company being in official administration, none of the administrators, who were now legally in charge of Red Sky, were at the meeting.

      Three days later Mr McCausland met with Housing Executive chairman Brian Rowntree and requested that the decision to terminate the Red Sky contract be suspended for six months.

      Extract from NIHE chairman Brian Rowntree letter to DSD Permanent Secretary Will HaireExtract from NIHE chairman Brian Rowntree letter to DSD Permanent Secretary Will Haire
      The Detail can now reveal the contents of a letter Mr Rowntree sent to DSD Permanent Secretary Will Haire on July 1 in which he registered “serious concerns and misgivings” over the way in which Mr McCausland and his department were now trying to influence the Housing Executive’s handling of the Red Sky termination.

      Mr Rowntree said that the Housing Executive had only decided to terminate the contract as a result of evidence of “significant overcharging” and revealed that consideration was being given to referring the matter to PSNI for possible criminal investigation in relation to suspected fraud.

      Mr Rowntree said it was “incomprehensible” why Mr McCausland and DSD would demand that the Housing Executive should allow the Red Sky contract to continue.

      “I have during a number of meetings repeatedly advised you why my board and I believe such an approach would compromise; not only the Housing Executive, but also your minister and department.”

      Warning of serious implications if the Housing Executive was forced to allow the Red Sky contract to continue, he said:

      “We believe such an outcome would be contrary to sound public sector procurement principles, not to mention the likely public confusion and outcry of the reinstatement of a contractor who had only just been terminated for serious malpractice.”

      And raising concerns that DUP politicians may have broken the ministerial code by their actions in support of Red Sky, he added:

      “We understand that meetings have taken place with the senior management of Red Sky in administration and the Minister, First Minister and other DUP elected representatives.

      “We further understand that the administrators were not present.

      “This raises the question of did these meetings constitute canvassing and lobbying for government contracts and in breach, not only of public procurement principles, but basic codes of conduct in public life.”

      Mr Rowntree said the HIHE had “serious concerns and reservations about the road you are pushing us down” and asked that Mr McCausland and DSD “step back” to allow the executive to manage its business.

      Warning of significant consequences if DSD tried to force the Housing Executive to overturn its decision against Red Sky, he added:

      “If you are not disposed to do this I will have no other choice but to seek legal advice as to how the Housing Executive should proceed in order to protect and not compromise its integrity and contractual/procurement obligations in this matter.”

      Four days later Mr Rowntree re-enforced the NIHE’s position in a letter to Mr McCausland expressing “deep concern at the stance that has been taken by your office.”

      Mr Rowntree expressed surprise that Mr McCausland had supported the Housing Executive’s decision to suspend the Red Sky contract in a letter to east Belfast assembly member Naomi Long in May but six weeks later was now threatening to issue a ministerial directive to force the executive to overturn its decision.

      He said the Housing Executive considered that any decision by Mr McCausland to issue a ministerial directive to help secure an extension for a “single discredited contractor” amounted to an “unwarranted and improper interference” in an operational matter and would result in legal action against the minister and his department.

      However in a reply on July 7, Mr McCausland said he was “gravely disappointed and concerned” at the manner in which the executive had dealt with his request for an extension to the Red Sky contract.

      Mr McCausland said he had “explicitly” requested that Mr Rowntree should put the Red Sky extension to the NIHE’s management board but expressed regret that Mr Rowntree’s correspondence had failed to deal with the issue.

      Mr McCausland later claimed Mr Rowntree’s letter had sounded like “a declaration of war”.

      Permanent Secretary Will Haire calls on Brian Rowntree to withdraw criticism of DSDPermanent Secretary Will Haire calls on Brian Rowntree to withdraw criticism of DSD
      PERMANENT SECRETARY DEMANDS CHAIRMAN WITHDRAWS REMARKS
      Relations between DSD and the Housing Executive appeared to sour even further when DSD Permanent Secretary Will Haire responded on August 31 to Mr Rowntree request for Mr McCausland’s department to withdraw from the Red Sky affair.

      Mr Haire, who is the most senior civil servant at DSD, wrote that he was “concerned” at the content and tone of Mr Rowntree’s letter.

      “I believe that I acted appropriately in my role as accounting officer in relation to this matter, but the substance of your letter calls that into question along with my integrity,” he said.

      “In that respect, I believe that you should withdraw the remarks you made, particularly as your final sentence advised that if I did not do as you requested you would seek legal advice on the matter.”

      However on September 2, Mr Rowntree refused to back down, replying:

      “I have reviewed the correspondence again in light of your recent letter and I am satisfied that the tone of the letter reflects the challenging circumstances which the Department for Social Development and Northern Ireland Housing Executive faced with respect to termination of the Red Sky contract.

      “I can assure you that in no way was there any direct or implied intention to impugn the propriety of your conduct as senior accounting officer or your personal integrity.”

      Brian Rowntree refuses to withdraw criticism of DSDBrian Rowntree refuses to withdraw criticism of DSD
      FALL OUT OF THE RED SKY AFFAIR
      Mr Robinson’s warning of an enquiry into the Housing Executive got quickly underway following Mr McCausland’s appointment as minister.

      The report, carried out by chartered accountants ASM Howarth, was delivered to the DSD Minister in July 2012.

      Four days before Mr McCausland delivered the report to the assembly it emerged that Mr Rowntree had resigned as chairman of the Housing Executive, citing “personal stress” and a “challenging relationship” with DSD.

      In an email to executive staff Mr Rowntree revealed that he had not been allowed to challenge the contents of the report by DSD.

      “I believe that there are imminent statements which are about to be made by the minister…relating to events and reports which neither I as chairman nor my board have had an opportunity to address,” he said.

      However Mr McCausland said the report, which has never been published, proved that the Housing Executive had

      “failed to demonstrate the required response to known shortfalls” in its management of contracts.

      Public service union Nipsa claimed the minister had given “a clear signal of his intention” to break the Housing Executive up into different organisations, which it said was not in the best interests of tenants or staff.

      Mr McCausland is expected to announce a decision on the future of the Housing Executive in the near future.

      GRAPHICS BY CHRIS SCOTT

      • MT February 27, 2017 at 4:47 pm #

        Why have you made a long post about Red Sky/NAMA/DUP on a blog snout Caral ni chuilin and Nichola Mallon?

        What is the relevance?

        Are you suggesting that because the DUP. Is corrupt that it’s OK.for Caral ni chuilin to work the expenses system for the personal gain of her family? And therefore Nichola Mallon’s clean expenses record should not be highlighted?

        Very strange.

  2. MT February 26, 2017 at 4:11 pm #

    “Do you want someone who works for a limited average industrial wage”

    Hasn’t this policy been binned?

  3. Brian February 26, 2017 at 4:15 pm #

    I’m also a north Belfast resident and in the 13 years I’ve lived in my current apartment Sinn Fein have knocked on my door once. Nichola (yes, with a ‘h’) Mallon is getting my vote because of her persistence in getting treatment for the 3 or 4 children in the north suffering with SMA.

    • MT February 26, 2017 at 4:18 pm #

      “I’ve lived in my current apartment Sinn Fein have knocked on my door once:

      They’re too busy with repeat visits to Donal lol

  4. Brian February 26, 2017 at 4:22 pm #

    BTW that is one of the most condescending articles I’ve ever read on this site.

  5. MT February 26, 2017 at 4:32 pm #

    Odd that Donal laments the suffering inflicted on people during the Troubles yet is trying to court support for one of the people responsible for inflicting that suffering.

  6. Wolfe tone February 26, 2017 at 4:47 pm #

    SF or at least it’s cheerleaders still are not listening to the undecided voters on the ground. Blowing smoke up people’s noses doesn’t mean it gets inhaled any more.

  7. billy February 26, 2017 at 6:23 pm #

    paddy power has them both at 8/11.also the dup to win the most seats 1/4..sf 11/4.but he got brexit n trump wrong so who knows.

    • Scott Rutherford February 26, 2017 at 6:25 pm #

      Did you get any odds for the DUP to drop below 30 billy?

      • billy February 26, 2017 at 7:20 pm #

        no scott not yet.prob have to ask in the shop.

  8. Gearóid February 26, 2017 at 9:00 pm #

    “Odd that Donal laments the suffering inflicted on people during the Troubles yet is trying to court support for one of the people responsible for inflicting that suffering.”

    Can you back this scurrilous accusation up with facts MT? Remember, non of us in this failed experiment that is ‘Northern Ireland’ are without sin.

    • MT February 26, 2017 at 9:26 pm #

      “Can you back this scurrilous accusation up with facts MT?”

      Are you being serious?

      You do know Caral is a convicted PIRA member?

      • Gearóid February 26, 2017 at 9:38 pm #

        Convicted for what MT?

        • Scott Rutherford February 26, 2017 at 11:42 pm #

          IRA membership, placing a booby trap bomb under a RUC stations gates, possession of firearms and explosives and attempted murder in 1989.

          Sentenced to 8 years in jail and got out in 4.

  9. TheHist February 26, 2017 at 9:25 pm #

    Long punt here as Donal normally refuses to engage in conversation.

    “republicans asserted the will of their own electorate” – how did they?

    ” It would undoubtedly have been very easy to “keep the show on the road” by remaining in office” And allow all them inequalities to continue?

    “But likewise, many people in the area, including in the more affluent suburbs, have also been impacted by the flaws in the economic model which Britain imposes on Ireland.” Like what?

    “Sinn Fein have been to my door three times already and have answered any points I’ve put to them.” How can you answer points? Surely it’s questions that would be needing an answer. What “points” did you put to them, Donal? And three times? They must be looking to recruit you by this stage?

    “The SDLP haven’t canvassed my street once and the election is just a week away.” As a resident of North Belfast, Sinn Fein have not been near my door . During the rugby yesterday they threw a leaflet through the letterbox. SDLP and PBP have made visits and were willing to listen and engage.

    All that you attribute as the track record of Caral couldn’t easily be attributed to any party – was the cricky not privatised? Where is the leisure centre for Ardoyne? Secondary school for the area? Nichola Mallon has been on the ground in regards the OO parading issue. She was involved in the peace walls on the Crumlin Road coming down. She has engaged with local shop owners at the Ardoyne Shops. To name but a few. I’m by no means an SDLP supports but credit where credit is due.

    On the topics of where MLA’s live – where does the other SF MLA for the constituency live?

    “She seems to think that by moving her office to the top of the New Lodge Road people are automatically going to deem her a champion of the working class in North Belfast.” How are they?

    “to broker the best possible deal for ordinary people.” would you agree then Donal that voting SF in the past has been somewhat, a waste of time? They haven’t been able to broker the best possible deal for ordinary citizens. Under their watch they’ve allowed the DUP a free run – equality, respect, integrity – is that what SF were showing their electorate when they were propping up the DUP in government, all in the name of power?

    “while receiving scores of thousands of pounds in a full MLA’s salary” – what? That’s what she’s entitled too, like many other MLA’s across the country! Not be long before SF MLA’s will be receiving their full entitlements (if an assembly survives) – this debacle is causing a lot of dismay in the party at present – so does this make them MLA’s any less capable or electable?

    And by the way, Donal – Nichola Mallon has been an MLA for 8 months. A totally unfair comparison you make here.

  10. Argenta February 26, 2017 at 11:44 pm #

    Things must be getting a little desperate in North Belfast when Donal returns to lambast Nicola Mallon for the second time.It’s hard to know if any undecided voters are going to be be impressed by this hagiography of Caral.Maybe the object is to ensure that no wayward S F sheep stray from the one true path and vote for PbP or–horror of horrors–the S D L P!.Given Donals obvious devotion to the cause,I’m surprised that he’s not out canvassing himself rather than attempting to be a “keyboard warrior “.I suppose there’s still a few more days for any other perceived opponents of S F to be pilloried!!

  11. Scott Rutherford February 26, 2017 at 11:47 pm #

    “The difference between Miss Mallon and Caral Ni Chuilin is perhaps best highlighted by the fact that Caral actually lives in the working class areas who elect her to represent the”

    Did Martin McGuiness not live in Derry during the 18 years he was MLA and MP for mid Ulster?

  12. jessica February 27, 2017 at 8:32 am #

    I don’t agree that Sinn Fein acted purely for the will of their own electorate.
    Their tenure over the past 10 years was to make the place better for all and a lot of the criticism they face is down to the fact they did not reciprocate how the DUP worked so blatantly for their own electorate first and foremost.

    As to whether they should have or not, the election this week will probably answer that one way or another.

    Sinn Fein will be the largest nationalist party, the SDLP have not stood enough candidates even if they increased their support for it to be otherwise.

    The negotiations which will involve the two governments will be to persuade Sinn Fein that returning to devolved government will be different next time out and stick to the ideals set out in the GFA with mechanisms to guarantee it. I believe the stronger that Sinn Fein are after this election the better the outcome of these negotiations will be for nationalists.

    I imagine an executive will not be formed within 3 weeks and we will have a headless assembly which will act more like a Seanad and can only delay or amend legislation.

    Direct rule should be opposed strongly and I would like to see a new body replace the executive made up of members from both London and Dublin governments, perhaps those who sit on the east west bodies which could be scrapped.

    I would rather see Sinn Fein taking governance seriously enough to have nice offices and to provide opportunities for our intelligent young people with respect enough for them to pay them the wages they are entitled to and I very much want them to take it seriously enough to dedicate themselves to a political career.

    I most certainly do not want Ireland led by ministers working for a limited average industrial wage.

    I don’t even want Irelands future influenced by people who think it is a good idea to have Ireland led by low paid employees.

    What planet are you living on Donal?

  13. Mark February 27, 2017 at 3:17 pm #

    God bless you Donal, I’ve yet to see any politician or political party rep. near my street let alone my door. Perhaps tired of being harangued time after time about their total uselessness, this is applied equally, but, what is we’re paying them for?

    • billy February 27, 2017 at 3:55 pm #

      no show here either.maybe they seen my sign in the window,if your calling about the election.fck aff.

      • Gearoid February 27, 2017 at 4:26 pm #

        Billy, votaíl Sinn Fein, let’s give the DUP a metaphorical bloody nose.

    • Gearoid February 27, 2017 at 4:23 pm #

      Mark the ‘reps’ as you call them are almost certainly not paid. These are ordinary but motivated people who, as part of their participation in the democratic process, get up off their backsides of a wet wintry evening to go out to try and make sure that the party of their choice gets the highest possible mandate. But hey, harangue away.

      • Mark February 27, 2017 at 5:18 pm #

        Gearóid, I did not suggest ‘reps’ were paid, well, not all of them, the persons they represent, or seek to post Thursday, will be paid, ’til a couple of years ago, the most efficient thing the six county Assembly had legislated upon related to dog’s, and not the ‘dog’s in the street’ alone.
        Forgive my cynicism but, with my previously mentioned encounter with an Aire Airgedeas, not one question put to any Assembly member, by myself, a taxpayer a long time, has been answered.
        So, again, what is it we’re paying them for?

  14. Donal February 27, 2017 at 10:01 pm #

    Jessica,

    I don’t normally reply to comments on this because I don’t have the time but I’m going to do so this once and I hope Jude authorises it because I think a number of people have expressed the same sentiments to you in similar messages and you really ought to take note.

    Firstly, I don’t know if you’re aware of this but everywhere across the Western world we have upper middle class parliaments, dominated by what Noam Chomsky calls “Borgeois Democracy” – that is, salarying those we elect into the top earners corner to make them as out of touch as possible with the common man and woman. That is a systematic problem everywhere, whereby there are very few working class people active in national politics at all. And for you to come on here and advocate for a left wing party like Sinn Fein to throw everything away and go down the road of all the other establishment stooges on this island, really doesn’t come across as particularly well informed or shrewd. And it’s even less informed to think that republicans in the North would be motivated to vote for that. So please don’t ask what planet I’m living on, particularly when you seem to think that emulating Fianna Fáil is the right sort of ethos for a party wanting to redistribute wealth and resources across Ireland – whether you’re comfortable with that economic ideology or not.

    Secondly, please stop using expletives in your comments on this or ridiculing people who express views which you don’t agree with. It comes across as though you can’t find better arguments to counter their points. I think some of MT’s views are from a dinosaur era but I respect that they are valid views for that person to hold and argue for as they desire. Perhaps you should focus on reading more before you write because telling people to “fuck off” or questioning their logic really doesn’t make you anymore intelligent than them. It’s just petty.

    I’m not being rude with you but I do think you really ought to think before you write some of the stuff you do on this, if you want people to react in a more positive way to what your take is. I don’t write things to gain your approval and nothing which you have said has influenced me on a particular issue because I don’t want, nor am I seeking, your vote or advice. If you don’t like or approve with what I advocate then simply don’t waste your time reading it. I do really hope you read this and take it on board, respectfully.

    • MT February 28, 2017 at 12:29 pm #

      “I think some of MT’s views are from a dinosaur era.”

      Which of my views do you think are from.a dinosaur era?

    • jessica February 28, 2017 at 5:35 pm #

      Thank you for replying Donal.

      I acknowledge that I can be a little blunt from time to time but I will indeed try to work on my temperament and respect your comments on that.

      In terms of how we pay those who lead our country, I am afraid I would be more inclined to go with a party prepared to pay a fair wage for the work involved, for people who have put the effort to obtain the qualifications and experience needed, who will apply the dedication and effort expected in the roll.

      In my view, I would expect that the best candidates will go where they would feel more appreciated and respected as there is only so far you can travel on good will. I was not aware that the wages paid to elected representatives put them in the “top earners corner” and I would agree with you that it would be wrong for them to be paid a salary which would put them “out of touch” with the common man and woman.

      Managing a country at executive level should be remunerated with a managers salary and not an average industrial wage.

      Rather than reducing wages, I would recommend increasing expectations and put more politicians out of a job for failing to deliver.

      Where insolence and intolerant displays are met with P45s and not rousing applause and childish jeers.

      Where failure to meet public service targets are not tolerated and result in disciplinary action for inability to perform expected duties.

      Yes, you can focus on the socialist aspect and say it is to keep in touch with the common man, but if the result is an average industrial wage for monkeys who don’t even deserve that much, who are incompetent bumbling half wits elected for being a bigot then no, I expect more and better value for money thank you very much.

      Perhaps you should look not so much at the amount being paid, but the value gained for that money.

      From what most of us have seen to date it has been a waste.

      As for Fianna Fáil, they have done ok in Ireland don’t you think?

      I would say they have moved too far to the right and that a centre left Sinn Fein could attract many of their supporters and possibly even give representatives something to think about in terms of jumping ship.

      Would you know what percentage of the electorate would be far left socialist republicans?

      Would you know what percentage of Sinn Fein supporters are far left socialist republicans?

      • Donal Lavery February 28, 2017 at 6:47 pm #

        Jessica,

        I don’t think, judging by what you’ve just wrote, that you’ve put any thought into what I’ve said because some of the sentiments you have expressed are quite frankly disgusting – like comparing Sinn Fein representatives to apes and bigots, when you seem to spend an awful lot of time bigging them up as a party. Likewise, I think your views on “who” should run a country are repugnant to the point where even Margaret Thatcher wouldn’t express them. According to your logic, working class people who are ground down by an economic system imposed on them, should be nowhere near the reigns of power, even if they are democratically elected. You advocate a political system of the middle class and for the upper class. You advocate a system which already exists, all the other parties on this island support that, if you haven’t noticed.

        For someone who appears to lack both shrewdness and foresight, you have the views of an ardent snob, who thinks its sensible to judge people’s capabilities and talents based on their salary. I’m actually shocked that you even regard yourself as a republican or “centre left”, whatever that means by you.

        You said in a previous comment that I don’t understand the needs of business, again whatever that means. When actually I’m an Accountant, who works with some of the biggest businesses on this island, so I think I have a rather better comprehension than you, especially given the content of your ramblings. But unlike you, I don’t care what deregulated markets would prefer – my interest is what benefits human beings, ordinary men and women. And stop implying that I’m a Marxist of some sort when I abhor communism – I advocate for a Scandinavian style “mixed economy”. In case you don’t know the difference.

        On the point of Fianna Fáil, have they done well?! Their two main aims were to end partition and to revive the Irish language within every citizen, so by their own criteria, they have failed. If you admire them so much then why not join them or advocate on their behalf? I think you would feel ideologically at home there.

        As for Sinn Fein, several of my relatives have been elected representatives and I know many, if not most, of their current reps and members; and I can assure you now that I have never met anyone who is either right wing or fond of your kind of monetarist perspectives. So I’m not sure what planet you’re living on, and someone even asked you in a previous comment if you actually really follow politics at all in the North or South, because some of your comments are so uninformed and ill-informed to be reality.

        I won’t be replying to any further comments but bare in mind what I said – you have two eyes, so read before you write from now on and stop using Jude’s comments section as means of insulting people or running them down because you don’t agree or understand their views. Slan!

        • jessica February 28, 2017 at 9:05 pm #

          I would agree that you don’t think Donal, and no one on this site puts me off supporting Sinn Fein as much as you do, or at all for that matter.
          And in spite of your arrogance and yet more of your drivel, I do and will support Sinn Fein at least this time out as I said I would.

          If you are going to pay no attention to the feedback you receive to your bog posts and comments, I fail to see what you are hoping to achieve?

          But I will clarify whether you like it or not, that I did not compare Sinn Fein representatives to “apes and bigots” and have said numerous times on this site, that they are the ONLY party I consider worth voting for at present in both parts of this island.

          I disagree strongly with the opinions you expressed about elected representatives receiving the average wage and suggested it would lead to poor government which is a valid and reasonable point of view. I added that we already have enough poor quality incompetent representatives more interested in squabbling and who are elected for expressing bigotry more than intelligence. Interesting that you consider I was referring to Sinn Fein, in spite acknowledging I had claimed to support them. I am not sure if that was deliberate or a genuine misunderstanding.

          Sinn Fein receive the full wages for their people in Stormont. Whether they choose to pay them or not is up to the members in question to accept, what I am saying, is that relies on good will and that it will not last forever.

          You talk about me insulting people, yet you accuse me of advocating for the middle and upper classes, seeking to keep working class people from the reigns of power (despite me being working class myself), that I lack both shrewdness and foresight, have the views of an ardent snob that judges people’s capabilities and talents based on their salary.

          I think you are just full of shit and don’t like people contradicting you.

          As for centre left, here is a link, I suggest you read it.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre-left_politics

          It is the embracing of capitalism but adhering to strong socialist ethics, much like a “Scandinavian style “mixed economy””

          But I am sure you knew that all along.

          • Donal Lavery February 28, 2017 at 9:21 pm #

            No Jessica, several people have remarked on this that they aren’t sure you even know what exactly you’re talking about based on the rather obscure comments you leave on this site attacking people. In addition to the fact that you seem to think insults and running people down who you don’t agree with somehow put you on an intellectual footing. I think anyone who compares what we both write can judge very clearly who has a more authoritative and sensible grasp of issues.

            As for me “putting you off” Sinn Fein – you don’t know me and to be quite honest I couldn’t care what my articles put you off doing because you’re not the sort of person, judging by the sentiments you’ve expressed in these comments, who a left wing party should be courting. You used the terms bigots and apes in a generalised way to refer to people taking an average working wage, a very inappropriate term of words which even Unionist fascists would no longer espouse (and they used to say stuff like that all the time about SF Councillors, which I’m sure you didn’t know). You seem to lack self awareness regarding what you think it appropriate to write online at times, if I’m honest. And that’s why I don’t even bother reading much of what you do write. I admire MT’s patience in responding to you at times.

            There’s nothing centre left whatsoever about the repugnant sentiments you have expressed on who exactly should be involved in politics. It is right wing bile to be frank and even Tory politicians wouldn’t say it. The majority of people live on less than the industrial wage, so why exactly would it be a bad idea to expect politicians to live relatively like the rest of the population?! Surely anyone with common sense, let alone intellect, can tell that is representative democracy. The reason we have a pathetic political class is because of gentrification, not in spite of it.

            My advice to you is to stop personalising things because you don’t agree with them and using someone’s website to hurl insults at other people or question their capabilities when you’re certainly no Noam Chomsky yourself. Likewise, don’t use swear words in place of better diction, it’s not cool. And vote for whoever you want, just don’t expect your comments or remarks to influence me or what I think because I can assure you now they really don’t. Your comments are embarrassing

          • jessica February 28, 2017 at 10:49 pm #

            “The majority of people live on less than the industrial wage, so why exactly would it be a bad idea to expect politicians to live relatively like the rest of the population?!”

            That is a fair question Donal.
            Perhaps if we stop insulting each other for a moment we can listen to one another’s views and try to understand where we each are coming from.

            It would be my view, that Ireland should not have the lowest paid elected representatives in Europe or even within the british isles. And a key reason would be to encourage the best candidates to pursue a career in politics within Ireland and not to go elsewhere for better pay and conditions.

            I would propose that there should be no restrictions whatsoever on working class people making it into politics or any career in Ireland and indeed they should be encouraged to do so, not by making it a lower paid career choice, but by investing in their education and opportunities.

            Why should a working class Irish person expect less wages than anyone else for choosing the same career path as others?

            A working class person who works hard to make a career for themselves does not automatically become a right wing snob to be shunned just because they are better off financially as a result.

            Perhaps you could explain why a working class person in Irish politics does not deserve a fair wage comparable to what they would receive in other nations with similar economies throughout the EU?

            “You used the terms bigots and apes in a generalised way to refer to people taking an average working wage,”

            No I didn’t.
            I said in terms of good governance, if you pay peanuts you will get monkeys.

            In terms of bigots, I clearly said many of the most disruptive politicians have got elected more for their bigotry than anything else and it is primarily the DUP I have in mind in that regard which I would have thought would have been obvious but there you go. My mistake.

            I have also spoken to many Sinn Fein activists over recent weeks and not one claimed they only wanted votes from left wing supporters.

            You are not going to out left the PBP. That is where the left wing votes are going to be going in greater numbers for the foreseeable future and I believe it is a good thing. It is about time we had more than one republican party if that is what they become.

          • Donal Lavery February 28, 2017 at 11:10 pm #

            Jessica,

            I’ll outline it again because it hasn’t sank in yet – there is a systematic problem across the Western world whereby everywhere you look you find upper middle class parliaments. This causes “Borgeois democracy”, where your affluence determines the influence of your vote, because you will most likely elect the government MP’s. And this problem, systemic in nature, means that MP’s vote according to their new found class interests and not according to the wishes and class interests of the wider public. It’s called gentrification. And just about everywhere you look there is a drive to try to end that and get more working class people involved in politics. But you are actually sitting and seriously advocating putting an end to the one thing which prevents Sinn Fein from going down the same road as all the other establishment political parties?! Can you see why people think you don’t understand what you’re actually espousing on this?! Do you really think the people on the Falls Road or in the New Lodge would vote for that?! Do you really think paying politicians large sums of money is going to make them selfless servants of the people?!

            And clearly you don’t even understand left wing politics because you’re sitting accusing me of trying to “out left” People Before Profit when I’m never done writing about the obscure nature of their economic ideas. I am NOT a Marxist, for the second time, and I think most people reading would gather that I understand both capitalism and socialism rather better than you.

            Here’s some food for thought for you – during the conflict when Sinn Fein Councillors were paid even less, you had some of the most amazing people ever standing for election – their relatives and they themselves were shot and murdered, yet they bore the brunt of unionist death squads to get up each day and serve their constituents for even less than the current working wage. Were they “monkeys working for peanuts”? Or were they simply dedicated to what they believed in?! Do you think people would take on a risk like that for a good wage?!

            Most of the ridiculous things you’ve written under this article seriously comes across like stuff an immature teenager would say to be honest with you. I think you should seriously consider not commenting under anyone’s articles until you’ve thought about the implications of your views beforehand because some of the sentiments you have expressed really don’t come across well, no offence to you.

          • jessica March 1, 2017 at 12:13 am #

            Thank you for debating with me Donal. In spite of your constant references that you have little confidence in my intelligence and I assure you I am a long time past being an “immature teenager”, I can at least respect you for engaging with me to help me understand where it is I am going wrong though.

            “I am NOT a Marxist, for the second time, and I think most people reading would gather that I understand both capitalism and socialism rather better than you. This causes “Borgeois democracy”, where your affluence determines the influence of your vote, because you will most likely elect the government MP’s.

            That may well indeed be the case, but you do understand that the idea of the “Borgeois democracy” is essentially a Marxist theory, which have all but entirely been proven flawed if not downright failed.

            So when you say “affluence determines the influence of your vote, because you will most likely elect the government MP’s”,

            Are you suggesting, not only will the elected representatives wages be lowered but everyone’s, so when we are all less affluent we will elect working class MPs or preferably TDs as I thought leaving the UK was up there on the things to do list also.

            It all sounds very communist and flawed to me, but what would I know.

            “Here’s some food for thought for you – during the conflict when Sinn Fein Councillors were paid even less, you had some of the most amazing people ever standing for election – their relatives and they themselves were shot and murdered, yet they bore the brunt of unionist death squads to get up each day and serve their constituents for even less than the current working wage. Were they “monkeys working for peanuts”? Or were they simply dedicated to what they believed in?! Do you think people would take on a risk like that for a good wage?! ”

            I have nothing but the utmost respect for the IRA and members of Sinn Fein who gave so much during the conflict.
            They were and many still are dedicated to what they believe in and no, people would not give as much simply for money.

            The point I made which you still ignore, is that good will should not be taken for granted or it assumed that it will simply pass on to other generations who live under completely different circumstances. Is that not a fair point?

            “Do you really think the people on the Falls Road or in the New Lodge would vote for that?!”

            I think the people of the Falls Road and the New Lodge would be more than happy to have representatives receive a fair wage if it meant investment in their area, better paid jobs, new houses, encouragement into better career choices including politics and their areas were visibly better off as a result.
            I would imagine their priority is results and what will lead to the best futures for their children, same as the rest of us.

            Perhaps you could explain how lowering the wages of elected representatives or the affluence of everyone is going to achieve this?

            “But you are actually sitting and seriously advocating putting an end to the one thing which prevents Sinn Fein from going down the same road as all the other establishment political parties?! ”

            You think this is the only thing that makes Sinn Fein different from the other parties?
            I thought that was their support for a 32 county Irish republic.
            So how would that work then, the average wage would only apply to 6 counties?

            “Do you really think paying politicians large sums of money is going to make them selfless servants of the people?! ”

            I would not pay politicians large sums of money, I would however pay them a fair wage comparable to other nations that might prove more attractive to our kids who may leave to seek better opportunities elsewhere.

            How are you going to ensure that our young people will stay in Ireland and not be drawn off to Australia or somewhere more prepared to offer them better career opportunities?

            Are these not reasonable and valid questions?

          • Donal Lavery March 1, 2017 at 12:27 am #

            I don’t think you gathered that I am not going around in circles with you over this; I don’t have the time to sit and validate myself to you, not that I have to. And for someone who apparently runs their own business you seem to have an unhealthy amount of time for obsessing over comments on this.

            And please stop accusing people of being communists or Marxists because they don’t share your neo-liberal views, it’s so uninformed and ignorant. You’re actually coming across like a teenage McCarthyite afraid of reds under the beds. Your “analysis” of Marxism and how it “failed” is not the point I was making at all – many political theorists, including Anthony Giddens, talk of the “Borgeois democracy” which we live in. Maybe you just associate anything which sounds class-oriented with Marxism out of a lack of proper political understanding, because that’s how it’s coming across Jessica. It is very immature and I’m not spending anymore time on this with you because you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about – which other people besides me have routinely remarked on. You have a lot of reading to do!

          • jessica March 1, 2017 at 12:57 am #

            I do not hold neo-liberal views Donal, but I will happily accept you are not a supporter of marxism.
            Apologies for assuming you did. Totally my fault in misunderstanding some of your comments.

            I am actually proud to be working class and will never be anything else.

            By the way, no matter what Anthony Giddens claims, we don’t live in a “Borgeois democracy”.

            If you want to make a change to political representation that will make a difference, make it illegal for elected representatives to also be landlords.

            Impose greater duties on second and so on multiple property ownership.
            Introduce unoccupied house taxes.

            Introduce a property rent cap for 5 years at a lower rate than what it currently is.

            Take the tax revenue owed from Apple
            Stop people losing their homes who lost out in the property crash over poor banking in allowing them to overstretch themselves and bail them out of the difference in current market rate of their homes and what they owe out of the apple tax money.

            Offer businesses incentives for taking on people from disadvantaged areas such as Falls Road and New Lodge, encourage them into apprenticeships and day release with work experience positions with long term opportunities.

            Complete the A5 and A6 roads to open up jobs west of the bann.

            Get the Maze project back on track. Grow our tourism industry.
            Offer land incentives for private development of the land at the Maze so there are large businesses all along the Motorway just as you would see in the south or in England.

            Invest in renewable energy both to make ourselves self sufficient and to export to other parts of the world.

            These are more relevant issues than the “Borgeois democracy” theory

          • Donal Lavery March 2, 2017 at 6:31 pm #

            Jessica,

            I don’t know you and no offence but your writings mirror that of an immature teenager with limited knowledge of politics or economics as they are in the real world. I don’t want feedback from you and don’t view what you say to be constructive. In fact, I would listen to someone like MT before you because although I thoroughly disagree with him on almost everything, he can argue his case well with zeal and details, and doesn’t resort to personal attacks or expletives when it comes to debating issues.

            You are totally inconsistent in what you write on this, telling everyone to “fuck off” if they don’t support Sinn Fein and then writing on this that I put you off voting for them when I simply articulate their own party policies on things. You also have a limited understanding of Brexit as you seem to think the Germans are somehow anti-UK in their stance when they have always been the most accommodating to the British, who share their views on the market economy – that’s just an example of what people mean when they think you don’t know what exactly you’re talking about. Don’t mistake your inclinations as facts.

            Do not tell me what I can or should not write about when the stuff I do write attracts a larger and more engaged readership than what you garner. I seriously think you should focus on improving the content of your own articles as opposed to trying to use Jude’s comments section to articulate your nonsensical and inconsistent views, while also running people down who express things you don’t seem to grasp or agree with. If you want people to take your work seriously then you really ought to read/think more and criticise less. No harm to you. So follow your own advice and take it on the chin.

          • jessica March 2, 2017 at 8:28 pm #

            I don’t think so Donal, I will scrutinise and criticise your posts as I see fit and for as long as Jude allows it to remain an open and free medium to express our views.

            I have no comprehension of how my posts are seen by others, and I do not post on Judes site as part of my work, to garner favour from anyone or to appeal to any particular person or group whatsoever. If your posts “attracts a larger and more engaged readership than what I garner” then I am very happy for you but it changes nothing between us.

            To me it is simply a community of like minded people who have an interest in what is best for our country and our people.

            Now, this is the third time you have attempted to belittle me when I have been nothing but curious to you.

            If you do it again I will not be so tolerant with you in future Donal.

            As for me telling everyone to “fuck off” if they don’t support Sinn Fein.

            I have said many times people should vote on their conscience and for whoever they see fit.

            The only people I recall telling to “fuck off” was those anti Sinn Fein republicans or dissidents who went overboard in my view of their criticism of Sinn Fein and I had about as much of it as I could swallow. What I mean is if we don’t unite under one cause now then we will surely divide but that may well simply be inevitable and unavoidable.

            If that displeases you then that is your own problem. I will keep my own council and take responsibility for my own actions.

            As for your posts putting me off voting Sinn Fein. That is me simply being honest. Your posts at times make me cringe.

            I am not going to get into a slanging match over who knows most about what, as who really cares.

            We are all entitled to our own opinions even the PBP.

            You are quite happy to critique the PBP on the flaws in their economic policies in your view but you appear to get rather upset when your own views receive the same treatment.

            I know very little about the PBP but I found the young girl Michelle Ferguson I think her name was on TV the other night to be very articulate, competent intelligent and passionate, all traits I value highly and which would have gained her my vote if she was standing in my area.

            Her passionate call for people to vote as far to the left as possible was not a flawed and desperate plea for support from someone economically illiterate and it was more than a call for a protest vote though it smacked of anti establishment and a call for radical change which is exactly what is needed here.

            So from the little I know of PBP, compared to your views Donal, they are streets ahead in knowing what is needed here.

            I abhor communism but you can be sure, nothing would shake up the establishment more than a far left wing party gaining electoral popularity.

            Next time you feel like insulting the intelligence of others on this site you should perhaps take a look in the mirror and read your own views instead.

            As for my understanding of Brexit, where did you get the idea that I think the Germans are somehow anti-UK?

            I do not think this at all and I do not recall ever claiming otherwise.

            You keep telling me about all these people you claim think I don’t know what I am talking about.

            That is absolutely fine with me, but can they not come on and tell me myself and perhaps discuss one another’s views which is what the whole purpose of Judes blog is in the first place don’t forget.

            In my view, your posts are not from first hand experience but from things you have read in various books, misunderstood, put 2 and 2 together and decided the result was close enough to have a pop at the PBP for.

            One minute you espouse Marxist theories, then claim to oppose them.
            The almost in the same sentence you comment that you did not know what centre left politics was but that you support Scandinavian model of economics.

            You are a character Donal, I will give you that.

            If you aren’t comfortable debating with me, then fine that is up to you, but don’t think for a second you are even capable of intimidating me into doing anything Donal. You will only get my back up.

          • Donal Lavery March 2, 2017 at 9:18 pm #

            Jessica,

            You just confirmed everything I said previously about you – you don’t even know the name of the girl from PBP (it’s Fiona Ferguson) and you routinely leave comments ridiculing the life out of them and now you’re saying you’re supportive of them. Especially when you constantly put people down for expressing what you seem to regard as “Marxist” views (although clearly you don’t even know what Marxism is) and now you’re advocating for a party which isn’t just Marxist but Trotskyist. You seriously do not have a clue what you’re talking about. It’s comical – I wouldn’t allow you to comment under articles given the stuff you come off with because it would allow you to put your time to better use.

            You can comment under my articles all you want though, as clearly you have way too much time on your hands to obsess over these things, but just bare in mind that your remarks are considered nonsensical by people and won’t in any way shape what I write – so why waste your time?! Don’t you have better things to get on with?

            I’m not trying to be cheeky but I genuinely thought you were a teenager given the content of some of the things you write. It’s that inconsistent and uninformed. And for you to say anyone’s writings make you cringe is actually funny – have you ever read the things you come off with or your writing style?! You sound like a teenage Thatcherite nationalist, harping on about you being a so-called “expert” on the apparent “needs of business” and deriding anyone who talks about the needs of working men and women as though they are “commy” scum. I find it hard to believe you actually own a business at all given the way you have expressed yourself under this article and also given the amount of time you spend endlessly debating people over the most petty and obscure things.

            Seriously catch yourself on and wise up. You’re sounding ridiculous

          • jessica March 2, 2017 at 9:51 pm #

            Donal, I promise you, I am not in any way trying to shape what you write or what you believe in and thank you for correcting the name of the girl from PBP.
            I had never heard of her before and saw her on TV for the first time only the other night but I thought she was very impressive.

            I also am not trying to put people down for expressing “Marxist” views, (at least not intestinally). I am opinionated though so if I go overboard which I have a tendency to do, you simply need to say as much and I will more often than not apologise and accept it.

            I am by no means an expert in “Marxism”, Trotskyism or Communism. If I am being honest I despise them, and more often than not I will be, and I accept possibly in too blunt a manner, but this could indeed be more my misunderstanding of them and more importantly how I fear that they would influence the world in which I live and work in.

            Perhaps if we step back from what we think we know about one another and perhaps allowed each other to put across our own understandings whether they be flawed or on the money, whether we be in agreement or in total opposition, there are bound to be aspects of one another’s opinions that we may find worthy of hearing. As with everything, there are many points of view and no one right and wrong answers. No ideology will work for every citizen and there are many difficulties which need to be addressed.

            I have never claimed to be an expert on anything and I have never referred to anyone as “commy scum” or derided anyone for talking about the needs of working men and women.

            If you are not interested in debating with me and simply intend attacking what you think I have said then perhaps you will at least use words I have actually said and not just make things up.

          • Donal Lavery March 2, 2017 at 11:05 pm #

            Jessica,

            This will be my last comment in response to you because it’s taking up too much of my time to go around in circles over this. But thank you for confirming my point that you don’t even understand what Marxism or, for that matter, Scandinavian style socialism actually is. You’ve just verified that you don’t actually know what you’re talking about when you leave comments ridiculing people and saying how much their views make you cringe, it’s embarrassing. It’s not even an overreaction it’s just obscure.

            I don’t care what your anxieties are over left wing economics, I care about the interests of working class men and women and any right thinking person is in favour of sensible public ownership of the primary industries in the economy because in case you don’t know it actually costs less than it would to subsidise in the private sector. So don’t come on here in ignorance of what I’m actually advocating and communicate as though there’s an intellectual basis to your inconsistencies – I can assure you there is not, they don’t even make sense and you sound ridiculous. It isn’t impressing people or swaying them towards your point of view.

            Please find better things to do with your time, like a bit of research and reading, before you decide on making critiques of other people and their perspectives. Otherwise, you’re just making a fool out of yourself.

            The End.

          • jessica March 2, 2017 at 11:49 pm #

            Donal, for me it isn’t always about impressing people or swaying them towards your point of view.
            It is for me about throwing our opinions into a big pot and seeing how they fit in with other points of view.
            I don’t have any agenda. I have worked my ass off and now I have a little more free time, I like to spend time here to communicate and engage with others. I have nothing to gain from it, I just enjoy it and in some ways find it a little addictive.
            I don’t know what your own agenda is or what you are trying to achieve but you come across as very condescending and your unwillingness to engage and discuss the very articles that you write, I think that says it all.

            You talk about the “Bourgeois democracy” but come on here with the attitude of just listen to what I have to say, don’t question it, you wouldn’t understand.
            And you think I am embarrassing myself.
            You got one thing right, debating with you is a waste of time.

          • Donal Lavery March 2, 2017 at 11:57 pm #

            Jessica,

            This really is my last response to you. I don’t regard the comments you have made as being fitting of proper debate because it is perfectly obvious, and you have actually admitted it in your last several messages, that you do not have a clue what you are talking about or understand the very things you’re ridiculing others for. If you want to engage with people on issues then stop trying to insult them or “overreact” as you call it, telling them that their perspectives, which are much better informed than yours, make you cringe while also saying you’re ignorant of what certain ideologies actually consist of. You haven’t the slightest idea what “Borgeois Democracy” even means or Noam Chomsky’s assertions on the subject, so stop referring to it as though you do.

            I don’t want your “feedback” or your “advice” and I do not wish to debate with you because of the comments you have made. It’s not hard to understand, so go offer your critiques where they are wanted.

          • jessica March 3, 2017 at 12:51 am #

            I have not admitted anything in my last messages I was trying to build bridges, but clearly you have no interest in that as it has been one way traffic of you ridiculing me over these exchanges,

            The “Borgeois Democracy” is a flawed belief that was born out of Marxist philosophy that democracy will always favour the wealthy because they control the jobs and by controlling labour you control the people. Even if elected into power, the people will still be controlled by the industry who finances the state and will have the final say. The only way to have true power in the control of the working class is through a peoples revolution where the people control the state and all industry within it. This will allow the people to govern themselves in their own best interests.

            As with all Marxist philosophy, it is of a bygone era and if you seriously think using sch terminology makes you a more intellectual person than I am then fair play to you.

            Your theory of lowering the wages of elected representatives could be seen as a ploy to appease the working class, to make it look as though you are working in their best interests but are really only seeking their votes to get into power and once there will do fuck all to make any difference to their lives.

            But that’s right, don’t blame us, its those nasty employers controlling all the wealth that us causing all the trouble isn’t it?

            Of course you wont want to go too far or those self same employers who fund the parties coffers may just catch themselves on and see a little bit of hypocrisy creeping in.

            As for Noam Chomsky, he correctly identified a problem among most wealthy nations, too much of the wealth is out of the control of the majority of the people who do not benefit and have no say in economic decisions which invariably leads to further aggravation of the problem.

            His solutions however are pipe dreams and implementable in my view but I would love to hear your ideas of how his theories could be implemented.

            Perhaps you should stop reading philosophical clap trap and start listening to businesses.

            Perhaps stop making an enemy of employers and persuade them to help resolve the problems Noam Chomsky ha highlighted in a new way.

            You mentioned Scandinavia, the Nordic model shows new thinking is not only possible but that the old ideals of capitalism versus socialism should be binned and solutions for the current century pursued instead.

            Not to worry though, I am sure you have all the answers.
            Give yourself a nice pat on the back and keep telling yourself how wonderful you are.

          • Donal Lavery March 3, 2017 at 8:36 am #

            Jessica,

            Based on your grammatical errors, boringly repetitive writing style and attitude, I find it hard to believe that you actually are either an employer or that you run a business. Seriously. What exactly do you do for a living that gives you the impression you’re so qualified to tell an Accountant to go “talk to businesses”? How many people would vote for your inconsistencies?

          • jessica March 3, 2017 at 10:24 am #

            I see you are still refusing to engage in any meaningful debate with me (your intellectual inferior), but at least your over inflated sense of ego hasn’t diminished any.

            My grammatical errors and boringly repetitive writing style and attitude are now the problem of the day it appears.

            My foolhardy ideals of embracing capitalism and applying strong social values to it through legislation, keeping profits within the state and using the growth and wealth to improve the lives of all through better public services, better education, health and career opportunities are unworthy of respectful debate it seems.

            Who would want to vote for all that nonsense eh.

            You have mentioned a few times the “bourgeois democracy” being central to our ills.

            I have at least given my own views on it, perhaps you would be so kind as to give us some insight into your views, for example who exactly does this ruling class elite consist off and who is their support base?

            Lets take an example, are working class plumbers who do well for themselves and decide to offer others gainful employment automatically elevated to this bourgeois class and suddenly the enemy?

            Should a working class family in the falls for example, prevent their kids from attending university in case they might become corrupted through education and start considering their qualifications and hard earned skillsets may be more valuable than what is considered by Marxist philosophers? If their children do well for themselves and pursue careers above the average wage, should the family leave the falls in shame of their anti peoples revolutionary son or daughter succumbing to the capitalist elitist trends and being branded neo liberalist traitors?

            You mention Noam Chomsky but I am still unclear whether you purport to his ideals or oppose them?

            Are you for industrial anarchy for example? Are you for the nationalisation of big business?
            Are you against private health care?

            Why don’t you engage with us instead to talking down to us.

            Why don’t you tell me what YOU think about the subjects of the blog and not what you think of my abilities or what my personal views might be.

            We aren’t going to change the world, we are only having a conversation.

            What have you got to fear?

          • Donal Lavery March 3, 2017 at 11:34 am #

            Jessica,

            This will definitely be my last message. I am not engaging with you because I don’t feel as though you are worth engaging with, in a nutshell. Some of the sentiments you expressed are repugnant and you go around in circles all the time – it bores the life clean out of me, no harm to you. I definitely would never consider you to be part of any elite, even though you seem to think classic liberalism benefits you.

            Please stop messaging me and find something better to do with your time. You’re wasting hours of your life on this.

          • jessica March 3, 2017 at 12:16 pm #

            Donal, you took it on yourself to come on and berate my contributions on this site. You have insulted my intelligence, accused me of being an immature teenager expressing repugnant sentiments and being unworthy of your time or interest to engage.

            Whatever your personal feelings about me might be, I was under the impression that a blog site was to engage with the public and exchange views.

            And I am not wasting any hours of my life, I response off the top of my head when I notice an email coming in, as due to work I am online a large portion of my time and it is easy for me to engage. It may result I admit in sloppy grammar and off the cuff remarks but I suspect your attacks on me are more to get me to stop drawing any attention to flaws in your arguments and having to back them up with reasoned debate.

            At least if I blog my views however flawed and repugnant they may be in your eyes, I at least have the decency to stand over them and engage with anyone who is interested in sharing their views with me, for or against.

            It is called respect.

            Clearly you have none for me so I will leave it there,

            Thank you for you time if not your thoughts.

          • Donal Lavery March 4, 2017 at 1:14 am #

            Jessica,

            Are you actually deluded?! You initiated this by making your personal remarks questioning what planet I live on, saying I haven’t a clue about business (when clearly I know more than you about commerce) and saying my writings make you cringe while putting you off voting for a party which I’m not even standing for election for. You don’t have any respect for people you disagree with and you use the comments section of this site, more often than enough, to run people down. So please don’t come on here and turn this around on me as though you didn’t have it coming. You are highly immature and your ramblings mirror that of a child at times, literally. You seriously need to wise up and get a life instead of obsessing over rather trivial things like this because it comes across like you don’t have better things to do with your time.

            Seriously catch yourself on and apply your time more constructively. I won’t be replying to you again and do not want your ingenious “feedback” or “advice”.

          • jessica March 4, 2017 at 7:52 am #

            I have a lot of flaws Donal as you keep pointing out but I wouldn’t consider being deluded one of them.

            Your comment that Ireland would benefit from reducing the salaries of those we elect to govern us to an average industrial wage inspired the response from me to ask what planet you were living on yes.

            I not only stand by it but I offered an explanation for my remarks.

            To reiterate, reducing the wages of those who govern to substantially less than what the same qualifications would get them for managing even a small to medium business is hardly going to result in us being governed by out best and brightest.

            It is also grossly unfair to deny our young people the same career opportunities and rewards they would receive across the water or elsewhere on the planet.

            It would never be accepted in Ireland and would result in a reversal of Sinn Feins fortunes who will in the near future need to review their economic strategy if they want to have any chance of overtaking Fianna Fail.

            You seem to get that PBP will limit their advance over too left wing policies but don’t yet seem to get that in Ireland the same will apply to Sinn Fein.

            I see nothing wrong with pointing that out to you.

            I am well aware of my temperament and my occasional obnoxious remarks, I am first to admit I am damaged goods and not the type we need in politics, I have lost count of the number of times I have felt the need to apologise for my comments but that is who I am and while I would not excuse my behaviour, it is a by-product of growing up through a conflict and my experiences from that time.

            Believe me, my attitude was once a lot worse and no better than the worst of unionist bigotry. I am trying to show more restraint but am probably too easy to wind up. A common failing here among people of my age group (almost 50).

            I assure you that living under british rule is not a trivial thing for me, I struggle with it daily and it influences my life totally.

            I take it you were too young during the troubles to have been traumatised by it the way many others have been.

            But this shows the true problem here Donal.

            I have bitched and moaned about this so much over the years that I am sure many are tired listening to it.

            You post your views on your blogs which is fine, but it is not only me who has commented negatively about your gross condescending remarks over PBP who I hope grow politically here, others have said your views put them off voting for Sinn Fein.

            Your problem is you don’t listen to feedback. You have your own superiority complex and want simply to tell others what they should believe, you don’t want any challenge to your views and your efforts to make me actually leave this site and stop commenting is media control that Noam Chomsky would be disgusted with.

            You don’t even practice what you preach.

  15. Jude Collins March 4, 2017 at 3:38 pm #

    Donal/Jessica : ENOUGH already. No more brawling or I’ll take your comments down…

    • jessica March 4, 2017 at 3:55 pm #

      Sorry Jude
      Apologies Donal
      Happy to wipe the slate clean and start over