You catch the BBC’s Spotlight last night? I did. It was presented by Jim Fitzpatrick and considered Martin McGuinness’s life. There were interviews with Bertie Ahern and Ian Paisley, Gregory Campbell and Denis Bradley, and Patsy Gillespie’s widow Kathleen. Chris Donnelly was given a few brief comments at the end. Although it was made since Martin McGuinness’s death and had all the marks of a contemporary documentary, it might have been made circa 1990.
The central dictum of BBC programme-making is balance, and this Spotlight had balance of a sort. We got lots of shots of Martin McGuinness as a young Derryman, clearly involved with the IRA, and we got lots of shots of Martin McGuinness as a man in his middle years, playing a vital role with Ian Paisley in the establishment of the Stormont Executive and peace. Out of this, of course, came the predictable question: why did he lead the IRA from war to peace?
Ian Paisley Jr compared the change to the conversion of St Paul: once the persecutor of Christians, he became the tireless champion of Christianity. Others suggested McGuinness changed because he knew the IRA would never win and opted for the next best thing, advance in politics.
Kathleen Gillespie, whose husband Patsy was killed along with five British soldiers when he was forced to drive a truck loaded with explosives into a check-point, provided moving footage. With tears in her eyes she spoke of how she envied Martin McGuinness’s widow, who had a husband to bury, while hers had been blown into bloody fragments. Two other men in different places, we were told, were similarly forced to drive a bomb into a British army check-point, although they managed to escape before the bomb went off. I hadn’t realised that before.
Clips from the famous Real Lives programme made by the BBC back in the 1980s were shown. The documentary pictured Martin McGuinness and Gregory Campbell as family men and at first was banned. Gregory Campbell was asked if he saw parallels between himself and his fellow townsman. “Well, we were about the same age and we breathed the same air.” Sin é – Nothing more.
Watching the programme, I realised that virtually nothing in the Spotlight programme was new. But it did raise a number of questions in my mind.
We were told Patsy Gillespie was unable to escape because he was chained into the driving seat of his explosives-laden truck.
- How did the authorities know this, if as we were told, the blast was of such force that nothing but fragments of his flesh and clothing were recovered?
- Were the two drivers who escaped in similar attacks also chained or tied in place?
- If they were, how did they escape while Patsy Gillespie didn’t?
- If Patsy Gillespie knew he was a doomed man, why did he drive the lorry into the midst of British soldiers?
In the end, of course, these questions matter little. Patsy Gillespie, who worked in a British army barracks, was blown to bits by the IRA and the grief of his widow has been life-long.
I suggested earlier that the programme could have been made around 1990, or even 1980. That’s because it was another unrepentant example of amputated history. We heard that Martin McGuinness became involved in the IRA, and as a result of Bloody Sunday soon rose to a senior position in the organisation. We heard nothing of the creation of the state in which McGuinness found himself living. Nothing of the civil rights marches and the response of the authorities to them. Nothing of the shooting dead of friends of McGuinness. There were no interviews where unionist politicians were asked about their role in maintaining a system of sectarianism and discrimination for fifty years, let alone about the threat of violence which led to the creation of the state. There were no interviews with British army officers, asking them to justify their presence in Ireland and/or their actions and those of their men.
In short, the balance was seen as being a consideration of Martin McGuinness’s life as an IRA man on the one hand and Martin McGuinness’s life as a politician and peace-maker on the other. For a period, out of pure badness, he organised the killing of people; then later, out of pure goodness, he organised an end to such killing.
If you take a 12-foot pole and cut it in two equal parts and throw away one, then divide the remaining 6-foot section into two equal parts of 3-foot each and examine them side by side, you’re not presenting a balanced examination. You’re presenting a deception.
I watched the UTV programme and recorded the Spotlight one. To be honest it was the same old official version of the conflict. Admittedly it did show the RUC beating civil rights protesters over the head with their batons and it did mention gerrymandering but there was an implied sense that the British army and RUC were somehow neutral peacekeepers. Poor Mrs Gillespie was shown but no widows of state victims. Gerry Adams’s moving speech and Bill Clinton’s summary of what Martin would have said (I fought, I made peace, I made politics) were the best parts of it.
No mention that at least two British Generals admitted that the IRA could not be defeated!!!
The majority of nationalist people didn’t support the bombing campaign which was not an act of self defence but an act of aggression in an unwinnable conflict that brought a lot of unnecessary suffering and frustrated unity for a generation and alienated fellow Irishmen. Being an apologist for what PIRA did is a deception
Is that your opinion or just your opinion? You must have been somewhere pretty safe during the early morning raids and the sectarian assassinations.
Dominic, have you ever heard of John Gallagher? A Irish man, living in his home town, murdered by the brit’s, unarmed, because they were, still appear to be, of civil right’s
Gallagher was shot in the back, no threat to the state armed, loyalist paramilitary group who shot him.
He left a wife and young children behind, not unlike Patsy Gillispie, but Gallagher was murdered by the state, where’s the inquiry and BBC/RTE condemnations?
I have never said that the British state or their cheerleaders were innocent or honest brokers, that does not mean I supported PIRA. What I honestly can’t get is how a civil rights movement led to a town like Strabane being blown to kingdom come which happened during my youth. There is a lot of rationalisation going on by very intelligent people on this site who cleared out during the worst of the troubles and are now trying to put rationale on it and I don’t by it. Those who came from worst affected areas and got involved through the anger of youth I sympathise with. Those who put a rationale on it I question. Those who continue to look back and portray the conflict as something more than a hate and murder fest whether state or paramilitary I treat with suspicion. I respect Martin McGuinness as a genuine peacemaker. Sin é
“There is a lot of rationalisation going on by very intelligent people on this site who cleared out during the worst of the troubles and are now trying to put rationale on it and I don’t by it.”. Care to name names, Dominic?
“Those who continue to look back and portray the conflict as something more than a hate and murder fest whether state or paramilitary I treat with suspicion.” Evidence for saying that it was merely a hate and murder fest?
You and Pk: I thought it was ridiculous what you said about Patsy Gillespie. The Butchers, McGurks, Darkley, Miami, Kingsmills, Tebane, Shankill, Rising Sun, Loughlin Islsnd, Bloody Sunday, Bloody Friday, Sligo, Warrenpoint, Enniskillen, Omagh, Lisburn mini marathon, loughgall, ………
“What I honestly can’t get is how a civil rights movement led to a town like Strabane being blown to kingdom come”
The civil rights movement triggered a terrorist response from militant unionism supported by the state forces who murdered and shot Catholics who dared step out of line for years which eventually led to a conflict which led to a bombing campaign.
What is difficult to understand?
There is no one individual or group can be responsible for everything. The british allowed an undemocratic state fester for decades. unionism refused to disarm the b specials and reacted violently as if the penal laws were still in effect.
The nationalist community were abandoned by the south and had no choice but to take to the streets as the blacks had done in the US.
Paisley is probably the one individual most responsible for the conflict, but he still could not have done what he did without the british state turning a blind eye to the sectarian hatred and british state murder.
I hold the british state the most responsible.
You clearly hold the PIRA responsible.
Why is your view more important than mine?
The British state hadn’t a clue what was going on over here Jessica; that was the problem. I had a friend working in England at the time and his manager called him to the office and spent hours quizzing him about what was going on. Ireland had been sorted and forgotten. The fools, the fools eh. My friends manager was typical of England’s attitude up to and including government. The British army dealt with it the wrong way but they were invited in through a phone box on the Falls Rd. and were received with cups of tea much to the annoyance of local Republicans. So when did war come to us? I know of a Tyrone Republican whose wife went with a Brit.
It was and still is the british states responsibility to know how their colonies or provinces are being run in their name.
Ignorance is no excuse.
I also don’t believe they didn’t know, they knew enough but didn’t care and didn’t want the hassle.
You talk about people making excuses for the PIRA, yet you rush in with your excuses for those who had most real responsibility and that failed.
I also don’t want to hear your dirty gossip truth or otherwise.
You have a nasty chip on your shoulder.
Wise up Jessica I didn’t mean when she was married, I was just pointing out that British soldiers met and even married local girls from the nationalist community. It’s your mindset that needs reflection
Mark, I’m not sure if you were familar with Peter McKenna, a Catholic shopkeeper from the same town as John Gallagher. His business and home were burned out,by Catholics, forcing him and his family out. He died as far as I remember a short time later. I liked both those men, it was hate that killed them.
“The majority of nationalist people didn’t support the bombing campaign which was not an act of self defence”
The majority of nationalist people didn’t support Unionist sectarianism, discrimination and murder either Dominic and they didn’t support the British Army or British Government being in their country.
But you’re hardly a spokes person for me or my community.
The majority of nationalists didn’t want beaten of the streets, interned, murdered by the state and their armed gangs.children burnt to death in their beds and bombed going to school either. Or did I miss that democratic vote
Dominic
You are of course right and the campaign was utterly futile. The leadership should have known that bombing the British out of Northern Ireland was never going to work,and of course it never did.
I agree it probably set back the cause of unity by a generation at least,but the revision of history by apologists is well under way in an attempt to portray it as somehow successful.
This documentary, just like many other’s, portray the whole troubles as being caused by the IRA. As Jude mentioned, there was no mention of the sectarian Unionist state that deliberately ran a system of discrimination, sectarianism and even murder of Catholics, that murder was done through the RUC, B Specials or the Unionist paramilitaries. There was no mention of Unionist mobs burning Catholics from their homes or the 5,000+ Catholic families that had to find refuge over the border, the Irish Government even setting up camps to provide relief to them. The British Army was brought in to protect Catholics from Unionist mobs and they were welcomed. It wasn’t until the British Army, under pressure from many Unionist politicians, got rough and brutal with Catholics (internment, wrecking Catholic homes, etc) that the honeymoon ended. The Ballymurphy Massacre and many other shootings from the British Army gave the IRA all the support they needed. Indeed a British Army general said internment of Catholics was a massive mistake but it was Unionist pressure that helped bring it about.
The narrative about the troubles from the media is basically: the IRA sprung up out of the ground for no reason whatsoever and started bombing people. Of course such a narrative is easily discredited but it shows the agenda the media have.
The Truth is Unionist paramilitaries were formed as early as the 1950’s with the support of Stormont/RUC/B Specials. They were planning even as early as then to ethnically cleanse Catholics or indeed anyone who was deemed to have Republican sympathies, including some Protestants, aka “Rotten Prods” as they called them. The first bombings were committed by the UVF. They admitted they were trying to get the bombings blamed on the IRA (McGurks Bar Bombing being one late example). The UVF committed the very first sectarian murders, murdering a Catholic bar owner on the Shankill Road I believe. Gusty Spence was behind that and while imprisoned an Orange Order Parade stopped and saluted him outside the jail where he was held. Even the very first RUC officer was killed by Unionists. All this happened before the PIRA even existed.
With all the discrimination, sectarianism, forming paramilitaries, etc it was pretty obvious who was thirsty for a conflict and it wasn’t Martin McGuinness. Indeed McGuinness said it wasn’t Republican icons like Dan Breen or Michael Collins that inspired him to join the IRA, it was the treatment of his people in the North of Ireland.
PS: what also isn’t mentioned is that the British Army prolonged the conflict because they sought to defeat the IRA, not find a peaceful settlement. It wasn’t until the late 1980’s is when they realized they couldn’t and encouraged a political solution, hence the peace process started.
Ryan – agree with pretty well all you say except “a Catholic bar owner” – he was just a barman..
Sorry Jude, its been a while since I’ve read up on history of this place, so I’m a little rusty. I remembered he worked in a Bar and was murdered simply due to his religion. That was the motivation behind his murder, as the UVF/UDA made no secret.
Mrs Gillespie said on radio last week that Martin described her husband as “a legitimate target”.As someone who lived through all the troubles and remember all the major catastrophes that occured,I never recall Martin saying this.No doubt if he had said this ,either BBC or UTV wouldhave produced the relevant clip in their programmes.Decades old enemies of SF like Maloney and Kathryn Johnson were allowed to make allegations without any proof whatsoever and waited till Martin was dead before making them.I have total sympathy for Mrs Gillespie and condemn her husbands killing but to use the indefensible act to blame McGuinness without any proof is just not on.
As I understand it, any civilian taking up employment on or in army bases were deemed to have made themselves ‘legitimate targets’, including Patsy Gillespie and he would have known that, as several Catholic Building Contractors had been shot in the preceding years for doing so. Presumably MMcG would have been part of the decision to extend the category of ‘legitimate target’.
Mr. Gillespie may have expected that he might be shot, but not to be forced to be a suicide bomber and his wife is understandably aggrieved by that callous decision.
Brutal, bloody, cynical, treacherous and painful, as our civil war has been, the ratio of the extent of political change to casualties actually compares very well to previous conflicts in Ireland and further afield.
The Unionists, RUC, B-Specials and Loyalists started that civil war, the British weighed in on their side expecting to win against the impoverished and powerless Catholic population but after 25 years of attrition and stalemate, it was the IRA who finished it and MMcG, John Hume and Gerry Adams who converted the conflict into a functioning democratic transitionary state.
Sure MMcG was an IRA leader. If he hadn’t been, someone else would have taken his place, but would that replacement have brought the conflict to an end and effected political change?
There must have been something in the air .Two Tv channels running similar programmes at the same time . I watched the Spotlight version of reality when it came down to it….no adverts!.Of course it all began with the Big Bang.There was nothing before Martin McGuinness arrived on the scene .He just popped into existence and that was it.There was little said about context or his background.There was very little on why he might have thought republicanism and the setting up of a republic might have been a good idea.There was no theory discussedor really anything about the man . A few scraps here and there which we’ve all seen a million times with the usual talking-head knowalls who know all the inner secret details but never say anything concrete. Where was the detail about “operations” and proof of his involvement in them?That’s what I want to hear from the experts. How did this seemingly naieve ,one -dimensional creation become the great negotiator that he seemed to become? What about Martin McGuinness as the murderer ? What about some real factual detail about that? As you mentioned Jude, there are oddities in this whole story .Why would a man who was chained to a bomb drive that bomb to a place where itwould do most damage? I’m not disparaging anyone’s morality , but why did he take others down with him? He could have simply said to himself…I’m about to die chained to this bloody bomb ….I’ll die anyway, no matter what happens …so why did he bring it to that destination anyway? That question will pick away at me. Was he really chained to the bomb or did the bombers simply threaten his family if he didn’t comply ?
I haven’t seen a fully -fleshed out story of Martin McGuinness’s life yet and the scribblers have been hacking away all week. Is it simply that a bogeyman was needed and that’s how they enjoy telling the story? I also wondered if Gregory still carries a gun in his belt….
paddy
I understood that the IRA had .a unit following him in a car to make sure he did what he was supposed to.
And of course his family was being held at gunpoint,
It is a bit reach to sit in judgement of him for ‘taking others down with him.’
I have to agree with you gio, as I recall, the report after the incident told of his family being held and his being told, any warning they’re shot, sufficient motivation.
i’m glad you cleared that up gio…so was he chained up as well?
paddy
That to me is unclear. So we have all heard, but also I read that he tried to get out to warn the soldiers and that is when the bomb went off..
And I think something similar happened in one of the other incidents except the driver was able to get out.
Perhaps they were strapped in sufficiently to keep them driving, but once stopped they were able to free themselves.
I don’t know,but either way it was horrendous and we should reflect on the people who did it and whether they should be described as having had a ‘life well lived’.
The simile featuring the number 12 with which you neatly wrapped up today’s piece, Esteemeed Blogmeister, brought both a grim smile to one’s dial and an even grimmer simile to mind.
That would have been the Hit Squad which another of the same surname handpicked and which later acquired the ironically iconic nickname, no, not The Dirty Dozen , but rather The 12 Apostles.
In November 1920, Michael Collins (for it was he !) gave the green light to the 12 Apostles to go right aheand get their retaliation in first against the Cairo Gang.
There was a certain aptness about the The Middle Eastern vibe which was inscribed in the names of the opposing Hit Squads as, of course, their shared theatre of operation was the, erm, Middle Eastern part of Ireland.
The Cairo Gang, incidentally, derived its name from the slow food outlet on Grafton Street which the nod-and wink 15-a-side team of spooks from M15 liked to frequent at the time. Less so to do with the Pyramids and more to do so, with after-lunch Lozenzges.
On that fateful Bloody Saturday , 14 of the Cairo Gang were wiped out in the Mummy and Daddy of all hit-jobs even as they lay in their beds counting their beads of sweat in the salubiours inner- suburbs of loyal Dublin, some even (gulp) in the same beds as the Mummies of other Daddies’ children.
.
The following day the hands of Michael Collins, a native of Cork whose red and white county gansey is colloquially known as De Blood and Bandage, boy, had further hand-washing to do (indirectly) when of the oxymoronic Auxies found their moxi e in Croke Park on Bloody Sunday Mark 1.
By any standards, therefore, Michael Collins might well be designated a ‘mass killer’ and possible even, a provoker of ‘after-Mass mass killing’.
One menitons him because yesterday, The Finest Mind in the Free Southern Stateen, put the,erm, Spotlight on him:
Tagged him indeed with the title of ‘true patriot’. As in:
-After Brexit, who will be the UK’s Michael Collins? No one in the British Government has the courage to be a true patriot.
-Eh?
This is strange , passing strange, indeed.
For the previous Tuesay, Fintan O’Toole (for it is he !) trained the Spotlight on one Martin McGunness, awarding him the following posthumous bauble.
-Mass killer.
Well, to be pernickety about it this bauble- the most prestigious of all media baubles awarded by The O’Toole on the Body Politic, – had already been awarded pre-thumously to the Shinner by the same Hack and Tan back in January in the same Unionist Times.
The editor of which Organ of Rex Accord obviously thought it was so good it deserved to be reheated in the Microwave, oops, Macrowave Oven of FOT and served again this week.
To make doubly sure that one was not missing something and that Michael Collins had not actually been similarly decorated, one metaphorically donned one’s crime-scene apparel, went into forenisc sciene mode, donned one’s white overalls, hair net, face mask and contemporary Garda-issue galoshes and got down on all fours to see if one could find any trace of the Four F’s – fingerprints, fibres, firewarms, and fluids (bodily).
Alas one did not. Rather what one did find was this pyschological profie of a true patriot:
– Michael Collins had to come down from the mountaintop of nationalist fervour and say: sorry, but this is the best deal we can get in the real world. He had to face down men with guns who could – and did – kill him.
Along the way, one also stumbled on the following piece of extraneous matter:
–Patrick Pearse understood so well in 1916, the blood sacrifice is also a kind of historical blackmail. It forces those who come after to either match the intensity of its zeal or be guilty of betraying the martyred dead.
Ah, yes, Patrick Pearse, the same fierce, blood sacrifice blackmailer who was justifiably blackguarded in the centrepiece of the Abbey Theatre’s celebration of the Risible Rising of 1916. By their umpteenth production of that paen by a Southern Yune (another McGuinness, Frank) to the Northern Yunes in his dramatic plasterpiece:
-Observe the Somme-odawns of Ulster.
The same theatre of just war, , incidentally, where the multi-storied IQ of the Finest Mind of the Free Southern Stateen, was employed as a Literary Adviser.
So what was it exactly which provoked this latest Hissy Fit of FOT ?
As Brexit – like Norneverland – is essentially about the clash of the ashes between Imperialism / Nationalism (IN) one’s inner forenisc scientiest, while on all fours on the Cruisckeen Lawn of Yawn, Sttetch Trouser Cough , came across at least 4 mentions of Nationalism but, alas, nary a one of Imperialism.
Making it: Nationalism 4 (o.g’s): Imperialism: 0.
Hmm.
To conclude on a gas gastronomic note: just around the corner from Tara House where The Biro Gang of The Unionist Times is located in this area and era of Éire can be found the (gulp) Café Cairo in (gasp) Pearse Street.
Ha ha …You’re not getting away with that “Biro Gang” crack , Mighty Perk….it’ll be written up in dispatches…wait and see!!
Strident champions of Triident and of British military campaigns which have devastated umpteen countries since the last IRA ceasefire, are,of course , best qualified to lecture us on terrorism. MIllions of people are facing famine in Yemen, having had British bombs dropped on them from British made planes piloted by British trained airmen, with the support and approval of the British Government. Victims of British statesmanship from many countries drown in their hundreds as their flimsy craft sink in the Mediterranean. Theresa May does not defy a hangman or firing squad nor EU tanks on the streets .
Her heroism echoes that of The Duke of Plaza Toro
You’re pot stirring, Mr Warbeck. You know that Michael Collins was head bombardier but he never actually killed anybody with real bullets. Imagine the feast the free state carrion could have had with him. But in those days they remained under their stones only appearing in the daylight now.
I missed the start, watched five minutes of the middle, got bored and gladly missed the end. (Gregory also turned my stomach)
And so to bed…..
Jude
Neither you nor Joe McVeigh in your appraisals of McGuinness dealt with the victims of the Derry Brigade during his time.
So how much of that pole did you cut up and throw away?
Gio
To use the old phrase it seems like “deja vu all over again”.The initial blog by Jude criticising the Spotlight programme and then all the faithful posters joining in his condemnation .When you and Dominic bravely put your heads above the parapet,the inevitable chorus of whataboutery descends.While we accept that all loyal Sinn Fein members on this blog site will want to keep unsullied the memory of Martin Mc Guinness,the reality as outlined in the Spotlight programme is different .Given the particularly sadistic and gruesome murder of Patsy Gillespie ,the nitpicking by Jude (and his faithful protégée Harry)around the circumstances leading to the detonation of the “human bomb”seem less than admirable.
“..”When you and Dominic bravely put your heads above the parapet..”
=====================================================
What exactly is “brave” about asking questions??????
Also, Do the same people who love Morals hold the British to the same Morals.
i have never heard either you or Gio label the British as “terrorists” even though they have used Battle rifles to gun down civilians in Ireland.
Just like the worst terror attack in France.
They also had the agent Brian Nelson supply South African Weapons.
which were used in over 230 murders.
And almost 220 of those people had no IRA or Sinn Fein connections.
Surely the only “bravery” would be to Tell truth to Power.
i.e tell truth to the Brits.
How can you be a British Fanboy with all this blood???
Hmmmm?
Oz
Tell truth to power, tell truth to the British.
Tell truth to the establishment. SF are the establishment.
Tell truth to SF. Tell truth to SF supporters.
Tell truth to everyone.
Would you agree.?
It’s simple Gio.
The British were the only ones with their hands on the political levers.
In Short The British State held the politicial initiative.
And apart from Sunningdale they did nothing much with those levers.
In fact they caved in and MI5 may well have got rid of the British PM.
It’s certainly plausable.
Ergo, that’s a big reason why they’re to blame.
When you deal with that chestnut.. Then sure deal with MMG.
It’s simple Gio.
The British were the only ones with their hands on the political levers.
In Short The British State held the politicial initiative.
And apart from Sunningdale they did nothing much with those levers.
In fact they caved in and MI5 may well have got rid of the British PM.
It’s certainly plausable.
Ergo, that’s a big reason why they’re to blame.
When you deal with that chestnut.. Then sure deal with MMG.
But Martin died recently. That is why we are dealing with him now.
Why is the truth so hard to accept?
I’m afraid I can’t speak for Joe, gio, any more than for you.As for my metaphorical pole – I thought it was a clumsy image but I couldn’t think of a better. I’m not sure what you mean when you say I didn’t ‘deal with’ ‘the Derry brigade’. Without checking back I’d say with some confidence that I have never tried to kid anyone that Martin McG wasn’t in the IRA and that the IRA didn’t kill people. In my clumsy pole metaphor I was suggesting that, while we have heard again and again – I’ve just heard William Crawley guests talking about it on TalkBack – about IRA killings that people believe Martin was involved in, we rarely hear any serious consideration of why a young Derry lad, with no republican background, from a devoutly Catholic family, would turn to violence. It’s presented as simply evil/badness jumping out of him – and thousands of others. That strikes me as either wilfully myopic or plain stupid. Unfortunately, I find myself suspecting it’s the former. Hence my pole thingy.
There is no way an OC in Derry would have know what was going on in Belfast or elsewhere or who was involved even
Would sort of defeat the whole purpose of the cell structure would it not?
It people don’t know what is going on elsewhere, they cant be forced to tell
By keeping the people in the know small, easier to find where the leaks are
I doubt the british state knew the details of every action their people were carrying out wither
The IRA have admitted to more of their unpopular actions though than the british state has
Would his handlers not have kept him/her in the loop.
Again, that would be one for the british state to answer Dominic
Shows how much of the truth is in their hands though
Sin fior
Jude
i am suggesting that in your (and Joe’s) reflections on the life of McGuinness neither of you dealt with (or even mentioned) the victims from his time in the IRA.
So are you not also guilty of throwing away part of the pole in your assessment.
Saying you have never denied something is not quite the same as saying you have addressed it honestly.
gio, you don’t know there were any victims from his time in the IRA.
The IRA existed before him, and would have existed without him.
If we are being honest, that is the truth
“gio, you don’t know there were any victims from his time in the IRA.”
jessica
Leave the satire to Harry.
Is there any evidence?
You’re 100% right Ryan but where did these uvf men get the idea that killing a catholic barman Peter Ward was a good thing to do for their so called country?. In my humble opinion the chief shit stirrer from the early sixties and who from his pulpit condemned and demonised all things catholic was Ian Paisley. How many people would be alive today if not for him. Maloney the BBC and other revisionists may try to paint a picture of a lovely little country where everyone was happy with their lot until the nasty IRA disrupted everything. Thankfully most nationalist people can see through these lies and will not tolerate the denigration and character assassination of Martin Mc Guinness. Did UTV and BBC do the same hatchet job on Paisley when he passed away.? Somehow I think not.
Iremember being inthe hills of the Wicklow Mountains where there was a peace and reconcilation centre,which i visited quite often,and i remember Kathleen Gilispee telling her story,her and her family were held hostage in their night attire and they were told not to try and contact cops,i know there was a daughter with her,its so long ago i cant remember. From a womans point of view or a mans also it was a terrible tragic story. Whenyou went down for the weekend all parties were invited,and then you divid into smaller groups to discuss,parties from the south were also there,but having said that theDUP was the only party that never ever sent any of their crowd,De Klerk attended africans attended,but that particular weekend the late Martin Meehan was there,and when time came for the people to pick what group they wanted to discuss with every,and all the rooms were empty,every piled into Martin Meehans including Kathleen Gilispee,everyone asking questions.Then in a soft voice she said to him, i have never asked this of anyone, Why did that happen to my Patsy, and Martin just said gently there were a lot of things that should never happened, she thanked him for his Honesty. GLENCREE
Surely any Nationalist switching on to watch a BBC NI piece on the life of Martin Mc Guinness would not have been surprised at the lack of objectivity , impartiality , or balance ? The general format of these programmes is to bring in the usual suspects , who generally regurgitate their bigoted bile ,which is supposed to pass for informed comment . The BBC truly is , in every sense the British Broadcasting Corporation . By comparison , tune -in on the 12th of July and listen to the ‘gush’ . One could be forgiven for thinking it’s only Unionists here who pay the licence fee .
If the Irish people supported the IRA the way Joe Public across the water supports their combatants in their wars, the Brita would have left a long time ago. Is there ANY action they won’t even consider as immoral? Seems that way. Bombing civilians check. Shooting injured prisoners check. Making up stories and covering their dark deeds check. Arming insurgents check.
If Joe public across the water had been listened to when they went out in their tens of thousands on the streets there would have been no war. At least they can do something about the people who sent troops out. We were, for the most part, left with faceless men conducting a war we could do nothing about and were held in contempt by our “liberators” until they started patronising us when they were weary of their war and wanted our votes.
“If Joe public across the water had been listened to when they went out in their tens of thousands on the streets there would have been no war. ”
I never heard that before.
Are you saying the english people took to the streets in England in their tens of thousands in support of equality over here?
First time I ever heard that.
“At least they can do something about the people who sent troops out.”
Yes, they protect them under the guise of national security. Give them immunity from prosecution as they also control the law of the land.
They still today refuse to tell the truth of the actions state forces made, and still the media and both states refuse to scrutinise the actions of the british state in this cover up or the true activities which started and enflamed the conflict.
“We were, for the most part, left with faceless men conducting a war we could do nothing about and were held in contempt by our “liberators” until they started patronising us when they were weary of their war and wanted our votes.”
We were indeed left in a shit place, abandoned by our peoples state in the south and held with contempt by our unionist dominated state.
Your anger over the fact we ended up in conflict still seems more about Sinn Fein receiving our votes.
Your use of the term “liberators” sounds more patronising than anything else I can think off.
The truth is there was a great deal of anger when the IRA gave up physical force.
No one wants conflict, many of those who engaged did so because the conflict came and they chose sides and accepted the risks and were prepared to do the awful things that come with conflict, just as those who join any wars.
Especially those in the south who already had freedom and nothing to gain from risking life and liberty for their comrades in the north.
Sinn Fein took great personal risk in ending the conflict once and for all and have shown true leadership.
You are the one who seems to be party politicing and stuck in a rut.
If you would understand what I was saying and make a salient point I could answer you.