If I hear Colum Eastwood say “sectarian pact” or “sectarian head-count” again, I’m going to throttle the cat. I know it’s not his fault but someone has to suffer. Besides all of us who have to listen to Colum.
“Sectarian head-count” – that’s what Gerry Kelly was accused of during the last Westminster election. Gerry had had the temerity to point out that there were sufficient Catholics living in North Belfast to give him an election victory over Nigel Dodds. Gerry was not referring to the number of Mass-goers, or even those who were baptized in the Catholic Church. He was referring to the number of nationalists/republicans in his constituency. It so happens that the vast majority of Catholics vote either SDLP or Sinn Féin. Yes, Virginia, there are exceptions. I accept your exceptions. But the fact remains, one can, for better or worse, equate Catholics with nationalist/republican voters and be pretty damned near exactly right.
As to “sectarian pact” – puleaaase, Colum. A sectarian pact would be if two religious sects got together and worked for the progress of their joint faith. What Colum really means is a pact between SDLP voters and Sinn Féin voters. That’s what’s called a strategic political alliance. To say it has nothing to do with the Westminster Confession of Faith or the doctrine of Papal Infallibility should be obvious to anyone who has been weaned.
Another and even more effective political pact would have been between Alliance-the SDLP- Sinn Féin. But Naomi Long appears to have sunk that, fancying herself in a straight contest between her and Gavin Robinson. That’s her prerogative. She is, after all, the leader of a mildly unionist party.
But with the SDLP and Sinn Féin, there is (one hopes) no element of unionism. Both parties are opposed to union with Britain. Both parties are opposed to Brexit. What then, other than selfish political party concerns, stands between them and an effective pact?
It does, indeed Virginia, take two to tango. And from what we have seen in the past, Sinn Féin has been the party asking for a dance and the SDLP has been the party turning up its pretty little nose at the very idea.
Less playing hard to get, Colum, and get your ass on the dance-floor
The line often spouted is that the SDLP core would find a pact very difficult.As someone who never gave the SDLP a 5th preference ,I would have to hold my nose extremely tightly to vote for the likes of McDonnell. Thankfully Francie Molloy will be my candidate so the situation will not arise.
Is Francie running for the stoops?
So the SDLP run with glee into a pact with the UUP last election all buddy buddy and SF are supposed to trust them to act for the benefit of Nationalists/Republicans.
They’re nicknamed the Stoops and imho it fits.
Most of the time i struggle to understand where exactly the sdlp stand on issues one minute its a meeting of minds with the UUP and their version “of ulster” !! home rule and subservience to British rule and an electoral pact which the unionists rejected , so it seems this great challenge of a non sectarian pact just did not work , just like it did not work for Trimble and Mallon as the orange order and the loyalist scuppered that idea
So here is the challenge for the sdlp , instead of referring to a sinn fein/ sdlp pact as a sectarian pact why not call it what it is A pact between the nationalist / republican people in pursuit of a pluralist and non sectarian nation of Ireland , after all that is what the republican ethos is all about
Colum needs to read the 1916 proclamation the mission statement of the republican and irish labour movement ( JAMES CONNOLLY AND PATRICK PEARSE )
Is Danny Kinahan anti-Brexit? I have strong views on Danny’s bonfire activities but include him in any ‘pact’ if he’s anti_Brexit – whether we wants to be included or not.
I personally don’t see the issue with electoral pacts among parties with similar views. In a first past the post election it’s simply a pragmatic move so not to split the vote.
Going on first preferences in the assembly election if there was both a Unionist and Nationalist pact then that seats 50/50 chance for both parties. If there’s only a a Unionist pact then it’s probably a safe Unionist.
Fermanagh and south Tyrone has only got a chance of electing a Unionist with a pact and a split SDLP, SF vote. Even if a pact it’s a tough seat to retain for Unionists.
South Belfast is another Unionist seat if there’s a pact in place.
East Belfast may need a pact especially if Naomi Lomg runs, however it’s a harder pact to sell to Unionist voters for a pact to keep the Alliance out than a Nationalist party.
Newly and Armagh is a long shot even with a pact and would need a upsurge in Unionist voters.
That’s 5 seats were a Unionist pact might secure or reap more seats but I’ve heard commentators saying that there might be a deal on 6 seats.
Does anyone know which 6th seat they are talking about?
Tranona duit Scott, I must express some surprise at your opinion, supra., in light of your previously mentioned support for the Alliance Party, allegedly, a ‘cross community’ or anti-sectarian political party.
Belfast east, were there a pact, would, of course, benefit Gavin but, I honestly think the new OUP have learned their 2010 lesson here, although how many manufacturing jobs have been created there by the same party, or Alliance, is roughly equal to those enabled by Seamus Mallon when he was Deputy for Newry/Armagh.
How might a strategic pact, designed solely to keep hun or taig candidate out, not be sectarian? I do agree with Jude, but my cat’s are safe.
It is an economic matter, how well voters feel regarding choices in polling booths.
Just out of curiosity, where did you get the phrase ‘tranona duit’ and what do you think it means? I take it you mean “tráthnóna maith duit” or perhaps you are imitating the English “afternoon to you”?
This matter of ‘sectarian head count’ is quite correct, in as far as we have, in Ireland, understood it.
I did, on the pronouncement of this brit election, incorporating an occupied part of our national territory, point out here that, to save stoop seats, certainly Belfast south and possibly Derry, there should be a reflection of what will happen, by necessity, in unionist areas.
The fact is quite simple, here, throughout the short recorded history of elections where the indigenous population have had the franchise, there has been the key focus upon the constitutional question.
The above is a quite correct determinant of how, and for whom, we should vote. I make this based on the fact that we must decide, in particular, in light of the RHI, Red Sky etc. scandals, since, we can vote for the ideals of those men who met in the White Linen Hall Belfast, in 1791, to advance the idea that we are equal, or we can continue the old road of inequality.
The latter option is not preferable, especially for those of the protestant faith here.
I made the point some years ago, my mother in law was born and raised on the Shankill Road, in an extremely working class area of Belfast. She pointed out to me more than two decades past that her Daddí did not get a vote on major issues concerning their family ’til the civil rights brought it about. This was somewhat at the embarrassment of the brit government and, frankly, due to the re-institution of the ancient war in Ireland to fight the old injustices.
My own Daddí and before him his Father/Grandfather, did have a franchise because, they owned the farm (purchased from the occupiers by my Great Granda) but, my tax paying Mammí did not. I know votin g discrimination under the OUP did not extend to all elections but, it did where it mattered.
Why I think this is related to the constitutional question is, as above, do you want to elect only them who have proven, over decades, look after only themselves or, do you vote for a political party which will do their best for their electors? This is the key constitutional question, the people of the Shankill, nor Ashmount, nor Ballybeen nor Sandy Row, nor for that matter Loughall nor Moygashel, have never been looked after by the OUP, now the new OUP, so why not retain their constitutional position based upon this fact?
In Belfast north, yes, Kelly could win, just as, above, The Doctor could continue winning in Belfast south and Mark Durkan, a very decent man, could take Derry easily and Sinn Féin, could resume their representation in FST, the once seat of the Honorable Bobby Sands, removing a former member of the UDR, a one time paramilitary grouping paid by the brit state.
‘But with the SDLP and Sinn Féin, there is (one hopes) no element of unionism’
I’m not overly sure I agree with you on the above line Jude.
Missive finished.
Thanks to all for the thoughtful comments on this and other blogs. Could I ask you, in view of the heat which the coming weeks will probably bring, to refer to all parties by their official titles: Sinn Féin, SDLP, UUP, DUP, Alliance, Greens. It’s a small thing but we do get a bit tetchy when people get our names wrong, on purpose or accidentally, so maybe we should do the same with all parties.
No Mark,Francie is not running for the stoops as you well know.I was pointing out that thankfully I live in an area where SF electorally thrash all comers and will not have to contemplate changing my voting record of 40 years.!
Ta bron orm Michael, it was a joke, he can do westminister, just so long as he stops dancing.
Gerry Kelly’s blunder was about as sectarian as it gets in truth. Both sectarian in that it called for a straight catholic against prod vote and sectarian in a wider sense since ‘sect’ of course does not only refer to religious groups, but also political or philosophical groups.
For a party that is supposed to be progressive it was a surprisingly regressive move, and seems to have since been recognised as a mistake
..
I don’t know how this election will really impact on us here other than to entrench the tribal divide.
It will hardly make any difference to the Brexit issue given that it is a done deal and even were the ever more hapless Corbyn to somehow get elected he would not attempt to reverse it.
As for pacts I am pretty sure when the SDLP wanted SF to join them in a motion of no confidence on Arlene over RHI it was pure part politics that caused them to refuse.
I suppose a unionist pact may result in a good election for the DUP and give them a morale boost but I am not sure it will make a huge difference in the wider issue of forming a government in Stormont.
The more interesting and actually non sectarian pact between the UUP and the SDLP sadly never gained traction so once more the dreary steeples of nationalism and unionism emerge.
Yes Gio it’s all very sad ..!!
The long years of sectarian hatred and separatism being bred into the Protestant/Unionist people still contaminate every facet of life in N.Ireland. And hard as they strive to be fair-minded the Catholic people are not immune to it. As a result I do not believe that normal life and politics will ever be possible.
Ernsesider
I doubt if you really believe that protestants have sectarian hatred bred into them while catholics strive to be fair minded but it is indeed sad if you do.
Well Gio
That is exactly what I do believe and I am immensely proud that in spite of all they have endured and suffered there is very little bitterness or vindictiveness. And if you believe otherwise I feel rather sorry for you ..!!
Ernsesider
I just see people who are all much the same, capable of good and capable of bad, neither saintly catholics or evil protestants.
Do you think it is genetic perhaps?
Gio
I have never considered Catholics to be saintly. As for Protestants being evil ..?? The people they voted for, to represent them on Fermanagh County Council (gerrymandered), were sectarian bigots, who unfailingly discriminated against Catholics. Would you consider that to be evil ..?? And where does the buck start and stop ..??
Protestants have anti Catholic sentiments quite literally drummed into them from a very young age. Catholics have zero interest in any other religion but our own. That is just the way it is. Of course that doesn’t make all Protestants evil and all Catholics saintly.
“Protestants have anti Catholic sentiments quite literally drummed into them from a very young age.”
I like that ..!!
AJ
Nonsense.
Perhaps if you said ‘some protestants’ and ‘some catholics’ I might let it pass but it is a lazy generalisation and you cannot back it up.
I hope this pact works but feel it will carry more weight if the greens do join in and maybe some independents can be nominated in some constituencies to facilitate agreement.