“… the tune of Croppies lie down in said publication, the chorus of which is changed to “Papists lie down” meets with our strongest disapprobation being directly contrary to our principles as reflecting on a part of our fellow subjects for their religious persuasion”.” By order, J. C. Beresford. Grand Secretary, Grand Lodge 20 November 1798 ”
The Orange Institution is a bafflingly entitled organisation, the orange celebrations of the Netherlands are reminiscent of the Tango adverts of the 90’s, not so Ireland’s ORANGE men, their sombre attire marks them out to be undertakers, or Edwardian era bank clerks or a Mr Benn appreciation society More baffling still are the array of contradictory accusations levelled at the fraternity; 1/ Criticised for being heirs of a sectarian Presbyterian society whilst known for being a mainly Anglican organisation at the same time-period 2/ Accused of having links with the KKK yet having a greater black membership than the KKK does members and despite being a social asylum of sorts for black GI’s in WWII. 3/ An anti Catholic organisation that in its early days did not forbid intermarrying with Catholics. The noteworthy Clifton st Orange hall was opened in the late 1800’s by an Irish speaking member of the OI. Furthermore….” Etc Etc
What I have written above is 100% true. It is also bollix. “How can it be both AG?!”
Well, the prime example of poor history is being completely biased and cherry picking what you want. Ruaidri Ui Conchobair’s Orange Order post being a prime example of this: http://www.judecollins.com/2017/05/orange-order-worlds-oldest-terrorist-gang-ruaidri-ua-conchobair/ Simply google the nasty bits of a subject and cut and paste them into an essay. The sloth’s guide to propaganda. The Orange Order has a lot to answer for, but many organisations do after two centuries of existence with a global membership. But it also has a lot of answers for the questions that are never asked. People don’t WANT to hear about the good things the OI may do. People don’t WANT to hear about the good relations that Orangemen may have with non-Protestants. No, the public WANT the sick voyeurism that is the depressing spectacle of the Belfast 12th’s underbelly. And they get it. And they can then retreat to their nationalist circle-jerk and forget about every other angle that professional journalists and objective historians would feel obliged to seek out.
Because we all know that if a person finds something that doesn’t add up within the nationalist view point then that person is clearly a traitor/West Brit/Soup-eater in the same way anyone from within the unionist community criticises unionist short comings is a Lundy/fenian-licker. So, does the Irish political commentator take the risky unrewarding route of nuance and objectivity or the safe road of propaganda and half truths? Judging by the comments and back-slapping on Ruaidri ‘s post I think we know the answer. I can only assume that Ruaidri will stick to his principles and have nothing to do with groups of questionable conservative viewpoints and 18th century paramilitary origins and stay away from any and all St Patrick’s day event’s organised by the AOH in the US…
Nice piece AG. Its a common enough failing of all of us I’d say that we scour the internet for facts that suit are own prejudiced viewpoint and ignore anything that contradicts it.
As you’ve pointed out most things in life are far more nuanced than that.
the tune of Croppies lie down in said publication, the chorus of which is changed to “Papists lie down” meets with our strongest disapprobation being directly contrary to our principles as reflecting on a part of our fellow subjects for their religious persuasion”.” By order, J. C. Beresford. Grand Secretary, Grand Lodge 20 November 1798 ”
In my humble opinion what a silly post. I have no real interest in all of the above because i have to deal with what they are up to today. It was really nice of the above J. C. Beresford. Grand Secretary, Grand Lodge 20 November 1798 to utter such nice words. But the problem is his fellow traveler’s didn’t pay any heed to them. I despise them for what they are a sectarian organisation filled to the brim with hatred and guile. Oh yes i brushed up against them in my youth. In 1965 i was on a pre apprentice course in the tech (dear me the only one out of nine that didn’t pass the eleven plus lol) anyway big Bob Mc Kinney from the Shankill road was my instructor and we hit it of and Bob used to tell me finish your apprenticeship and join the merchant navy. He had and loved it great opportunities for promotion and good salaries. My next move was to be interviewed and passed onto the engineering course in Feldon house in Belfast and would you believe a nervous wee country boy arrived at his section and who was there only Mr Mc Kinney he came over and laughed and said i saw your name and got you into my section. All went well all year we worked hard done our city and guilds and most passed. Then myself and another lad were called to the chief instructors office and handed an envelope and our bus fares and sent to Scott volt works Belfast for an interview they wanted two apprentices and we had come out top of the year and were chosen to go. On our way out Bob came over to me and said do your best this a great apprenticeship and a chance at travel. So of we went arrived in the outer office woman took our letter and went into another office and half an hour later while me and Sean were getting a bit nervous her inter thing went and she went back into the office came over to me i think because i was the biggest and handed me a letter and said take that to Mr thingie the chief instructor. So of we went a bit confused and as we were walking down the main aisle to the chief instructors office Bob came running over and said well and i showed him the the letter and told him what happened he grabbed the letter opened it and he was a big man but i remember he bounced of the floor shoved it back into my hand and shouted take that to the Belfast telegraph take that to the Irish news. I spotted all the white coats coming over to see what had happened and the chief instructor running up the isle and i looked at the letter and showed it to Sean it simply said Mr thingie send down two more apprentices no Catholics bingo. Mr thingie took the letter and said all right everyone back to class Bob put his arm round me walked me back to class shrugged his shoulders and said sorry Stephen but he is a wee black b—–d and up in the orange order sorry. I was lucky i had an uncle in a big plant in England he went to the engineering chief he was friendly with and told him the story he told him for me to send over my results and i did and he asked my uncle is he as big as you and fit he said i was and he said tell him to come on over, job done lucky. I finished my apprenticeship a much superior one in fact got a HND. I was looking at the paper one day and seen an oil company looking for engineers and three months later i was in Singapore lucky boy always had itchy feet. I don’t know what happened to Sean but i can imagine. So F–K B—K B—–ds and the Orange Order for the hateful bigots that they are. Post this or not but they could have ruined my chance at life.
Thanks for relating your experience Stephen. Says it all really. My uncle had a similar experience in Derry in the 1930’s. He was not as fortunate as you because he never worked again and spent his whole life on the brew. It is hard to believe that, in the form of the Orange Order, such bigoted and ignorant rednecks still exist in 2017.
I couldn’t care less who accuses me of bias when it comes to the oo.It baffles me that such a vile organisation is allowed to exist in 21st century Ireland.I was burnt out of my home when I was 3 years old and members of said cultural fraternity were involved.I also received intimidation in the workplace(scary stuff)by oo members.Please,please,please forgive me if I shine a somewhat negative light on such a wonderful body of cultural leaders,but hey ho there is nothing positive to say.
I don’t understand how this is a response to Ruaidri’s article (or rant??) when it fails to respond to many of the sentiments he expresses in his. Instead it sidetracks making a number of unsubstantiated remarks. Perhaps AG, an article attacking Ruaidri’s argument would prove more beneficial than a generalised article that, in theory, tells us nothing of any substance.
“People don’t WANT to hear about the good things the OI may do. People don’t WANT to hear about the good relations that Orangemen may have with non-Protestants.”
“May do” or have done?
“May have” or do have ?
You actually seem unsure AG when making the above point. Perhaps, you can elaborate here, AG and provide a more objective, non bias and impartial view of the OO exposing the positives of the organisation and provide evidence about the good things the OI HAVE DONE and the good relations that the OO DO HAVE with non-Protestants?
Amm Ghobsmact,
I note, you feel my succinct blog post on the Orange Order was ‘cherry-picking’ though don’t dispute it’s factually accurate.
I’m amused you used that phrase, given your above article cherry-picked its way through the history and nuances of how and why the British colonial Orange Order conducts itself in different way as between here at home verses abroad.
Anyway, it’s a pity that before commenting you didn’t bother to click on the very first link I embedded into this blog post that you’re criticising. That link takes you to old blog posts on my website. Therein, I deal more extensively with the litany of condemnable antics of the Orange Order and the culture and traditions of Orangeism.
First: Orange Order – the myths the lies and the distortions
http://belfast-child.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/orange-order-myths-lies-distortions.html
Second: Orange Order – parades of murder and mayhem http://belfast-child.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/orange-order-parades-of-murder-mayhem.html
Third: Orangeism – a British colonial culture of supremacism and hate
http://belfast-child.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/Orangeism-British-culture-supremacism-hate.html
Never mind all the murder, violence and societal destruction the orange orders levy upon the north every year for centuries. But allegedly there’s some good there (that you don’t even list) that is supposed to make us think “oh yeah that murder, violence and bottomless hate the orange orders engender towards Catholics is actually worth it, on balance.”
Bollocks.
AG it’s great you moved away and got some perspective. Pity it wasn’t enough to prevent you defending a British ISIS.
Am Ghobsmact and Scott,
I, like you, once thought that there was merit in contributing to this website; I thought that there might be a sharing of opinion and a degree of understanding to be fostered, but I came to realise that no one (bar a couple) was listening.
That wasn’t a response, not one point was countered.
I figured d it amusing that the Catholics who support the murder of Protestants have such a thin skin .I went for a job in coatbridge Scotland for the council good Irish Catholic council pink form for Protestants green for their own kind guess I didn’t get a job . Just went somewhere else didn’t bomb shoot or murder anyone .not like some.
Let he who I’d without sin cast the first stone!
I’ve never seen a more hatred filled load of garbage. And no I’m not a member of the Orange Order, and I never have been, nor will be.
You should take a good look in the mirror and ask yourselves. Am I really that perfect? “Ban this” “ban that” Intolerant bunch of bigots. The OO would have to go some, be as hatred filled as yourselves.
KKK? I’ve seen full black African lodges, even native American orange lodges. Obviously you have a great agenda to be filled. This has been a complete eye opener this site.
Rab Anderson Thanks for the laugh its time for bed and good to finish the day with a good giggle. I called herself over to read this one and she is nearly at the op of the stairs and hasn’t stopped laughing yet. Thanks for the laugh Rab and goodnight.