I was in the middle of a blog on a separate subject which I may come back to later today when I got a call from the Nolan show to discuss the Belfast Telegraph front page story today (which was given a boost in advance by Jeffrey Donaldson last night) that Sean Kelly has been canvassing for Sinn Féin in North Belfast. I’ll try to put up the discussion itself later.
Meanwhile, my main point in starting was that we shouldn’t be discussing Sean Kelly. There are Brexit tornado-clouds ahead, there is the continuing shadow of RHI, there is the matter of implementation of past agreements so that the Executive can be restored – and the Bel Tel chooses, in a tight race, to give headlines to a painted devil for unionism. And the Nolan show echoes the Bel Tel.
There’s no doubt that Sean Kelly was responsible for a great deal of pain and suffering, just as others like the British Army, UDR, and various unionist paramilitary organisations did during the troubles. But Sean Kelly is now participating in electoral politics, which is what was urged on republicans throughout the Troubles. Why should we revile him for doing the very thing we’ve urge him to do.
But while the IRA is a thing of the past, the UDA is a thing of the present. This group has chosen to endorse the DUP and issue warnings against voting for Alliance. The UDA, we’re told, killed a man in Bangor recently. Yet the Bel Tel – and Nolan – are focusing on one ex-paramilitary now committed to peaceful politics.
We should be dealing with and debating the issues that matter, not waving around a bogey man in the hope he’ll damage Sinn Féin’s chances in North Belfast. My own assessment is that any fair-minded person who heard Nolan this morning will be energized to get out tomorrow and vote for a man who was the appalling victim of British state and unionist paramilitary violence: John Finucane.
And here’s the link to the Nolan show this morning.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08sp6h2#play
Sean Kelly, and Tom Begley attempted to remove a bunch of murdering, controlling and drug dealing loyalist terrorists, unfortunately the bomb, now known as an ‘IED’, exploded prematurely, resulting in deaths of innocent folk from that part of the town.
Had young Begley been able to give the warning, and were the loyalist terrorists not pre-warned by their MI5/special branch handlers who also controlled the elements within the IRA, YES OPINION WITH NO FACTS RELEASED BY THE STATE YET, then these two men would be seen by all of us who were seriously injured by the same loyalist terrorists as hero’s.
They are to me anyhow.
Mark
Yes how unfortunate.
Most Unfortunate
Was that the British Government for fifty years did nothing to end the rottenness and evil of institutionalised sectarian bigotry and repression, that was Protestant/Unionist rule in N. Ireland ..!!
Ernesider
Yes the bad old Brits made poor Sean go out and plant a bomb in a chip shop.
Who would have thought innocent people might get hurt.
Truly pathetic.
Gio, it was a fish shop.
Pathetic is you
And your consistent refusal to accept what the Catholic people of N. Ireland suffered and what were the root causes of the troubles. So just continue on living your smug self satisfied middle class existence, telling us all how badly we treated our noble long suffering Protestant/Unionist neighbors ..!!
Ernesider, go easy on Gio. Don’t cha know he has only SF’s best interests at heart when he imparts his wisdom upon us? Yes that’s right, he merely wants to see those who represent Irish republicanism succeed in their aims. It must be some kind of reverse psychology or something because his strategy of throwing IRA volunteers to the wolves has had an impact on me I.e I’ll be holding my nose and voting for them pesky shinners tomorrow. Damn you Gio!
“Yes the bad old Brits made poor Sean go out and plant a bomb in a chip shop”
Well he didn’t go there for the fun of it Gio…..or are you one of these people who actually advocate that he did? I’m sure he enjoyed failing to bomb a UDA Leadership meeting and losing an eye and movement in one part of his body. Not to mention he lost a friend in the process too.
“Who would have thought innocent people might get hurt.”
I deplore the Shankill bomb and the Loyalist massacre done after it of innocent people (Catholics and Protestants) which doesn’t get a fraction of the attention. But do you think those standing with pride with their poppies on give a thought to the thousands, if not millions, of innocent people that were killed/hurt by British Army bombs, drones, etc? Or is that OK because it was Brits doing it?….Oh, I forgot, that was “legal”…..
Ryan
Whatabout the Brits doesn’t really cut it.
Do you hold Kelly responsible for what he did or is it all someone else’e fault?
Ernesider
You are just namecalling now and also making stuff up.
What is the point.?
“Whatabout the Brits doesn’t really cut it”
Whatabboutery? is that really your reply to thousands of dead innocent people in the middle east due to British Bombs Gio? I’m sure if I resorted to whatabouttery about those killed on the Shankill Road your outrage switch would be flipped very quickly. Regardless of your views Gio, non-protestant unionists are human beings too and the British Army doesn’t have the right to kill anyone just because their British or because the Westminster Parliament backs them. I use to actually respect your posts Gio but you have fairly went down the flegger route in recent weeks, its just a matter of time before you’re typing “Its all them’uns fault”.
“Do you hold Kelly responsible for what he did or is it all someone else’e fault?”
I ultimately hold those who started the Troubles responsible for every death here. Was the Shankill bomb right? of course not but I don’t have tunnel vision nor am I blinded by ignorance, I know the context of why Kelly and his friend did what they did, innocent people weren’t the target, UDA terrorists were.
Could you explain to me Gio why you cant view the shankill bomb in the same way you view innocent people in the middle east being bombed by British drones?
No making stuff up Gio
And that is the way I see you.
Your reply above
“Yes the bad old Brits made poor Sean go out and plant a bomb in a chip shop.”
I regard as mind numbingly childish and stupid. As is typical of your contributions, you condemn and demand condemnation of individual ‘atrocities’ without any consideration of historical background or context, particularly the fifty years of institutionalised sectarian hatred and divion that Was Protestant/Unionist rule in N. Ireland. But, I’m forgetting Gio, you don’t see things that way ..!! Do you ..??
Ryan
It is pure deflection away from the subject of the blog, namely Sean Kelly.
So can you apportion a little bit of responsibility to the man who actually chose to take a bomb and deliver it into a busy civilian setting.
Every killer has aback story. We should not let it absolve them from responsibilty.
Now continue with your whataboutery.
Please try to avoid the personal abuse.
It seems to be getting a lot worse here in the run up to the election. Anyone who questions the Shinner narrative is targeted.
Ernesider
“So just continue on living your smug self satisfied middle class existence, telling us all how badly we treated our noble long suffering Protestant/Unionist neighbors .”
I’ll allow ‘smug’ for the sake of argument. Can you back up any of the rest of it?
If you can find one post where I referred to unionists as noble or long suffering I will offer you a fulsome apology.
Just one post. Should be easy.
No Gio you didn’t
Describe them as noble and long suffering. I did ..And I was being sarcastic .. Are you really so thick you couldn’t see that ..??
And why that juvenile smartarse response, given that you could have replied to my condemnation of Protestant/Unionist misrule as being the root cause of the troubles. Why are you so reluctant to address that proposition Gio. If you believe it has no merit you can always say so ..!!!
Ernesider
You made a dig at me which was completely without substance, so I called you on it.
Debate honestly and stop making stuff up.
I am trying not to get into your diversion about the causes of the troubles because the thread is about a particular individual and what he is doing right now.
The cause of the troubles has no bearing on sensitivities about this particular character.
For the record of course the long period of one party rule was a major factor in leading to the troubles.
Spot on Jude Hypocrisy as usual from Unionism fuelled by Nolan
I agree Jude, we shouldn’t be discussing Sean Kelly, but then again I reckon that the Belfast Telegraph had this story in storage, ready to unleash it a day before polling for the General Election. The timing of this headline story is a sinster attempt to try and damage Sinn Fein, of course. Is this the first time Sean Kelly has canvassed for Sinn Fein?
” Is this the first time Sean Kelly has canvassed for Sinn Fein?”
No, he has canvassed for Sinn Fein before, just like many former members of the IRA. What isn’t spoke about, of course, is that some former UDA/UVF members and people convicted of rioting, sectarian attacks, etc have canvassed for Unionist political parties. I remember, I think, there was an article about a TUV canvasser being convicted for holding a gun to a Catholic man’s head (for being a Catholic, of course) in the 1990’s during Drumcree and the whole thing was down played. The man was also convicted of blocking roads too.
The bel tel ? I don’t even left it when they give it away for free at the bus station.
It just shows you how the media work. The Belfast Telegraph in particular has been going all out against Sinn Fein in this election. I have lost count of the many anti-Sinn Fein articles they have printed this past week or 2 alone.
The fact that numerous UDA members and even commanders are freely walking our streets, openly, and even sometimes being on the radio/TV without being arrested is shocking. If a Real IRA commander was being interviewed or openly walking around without being arrested there would be outrage from the same old individuals. But this doesn’t happen when it comes to Unionist paramilitaries, why? What exactly is the relationship between Unionist political parties (particularly the DUP) and Unionist terrorists? What exactly is the relationship between the UDA/UVF and the British Government and the PSNI? Why aren’t the PSNI arresting people for being members of Unionist terrorist organisations?
The UDA murdered a man in Bangor just last week. They murdered a number of times within the past year. The PSNI confirm the UDA are still involved in racketeering, drug dealing, intimidation, etc but yet we see them meeting senior DUP members. We have Unionist political parties getting large sums of money directed to “community groups” that are connected to known UDA terrorists. Unionist politicians even asked the Alliance Minister to bypass normal procedure to get the grants, a move the Alliance Minister called “very unusual”. And now, all Unionist terror groups are openly endorsing the DUP/UUP and “warning” against voting Alliance.
Despite all this, Stephen Nolan and the Belfast Telegraph want to focus on Sean Kelly canvassing for Sinn Fein, something I’m sure he’s been doing for many a year without focus.
Its about time some serious questions were asked and answered.
Ryan, you ask about the relationship between unionists and their paramilitaries:
Vote DUP – get UDA!
Vote UUP – get UVF!
And these paramilitaries’ relationship with the PSNI and British government:
Their wages are paid by the British government, and their agents are the PSNI – so there’s no way they are going to harass or arrest their own employees!
Cant help but agree with you Sherdy
Well, personally myself, I do understand people on the Shankill not being happy about it. You can try as hard as you like to apply some logic to the situation, but, people lost loved ones. As for Nolan, and the Belfast tel: are we surprised?
John Finucane is not an “appalling victim”
He should be allowed to do whatever he wants, but people should also be free to comment on the wisdom of the decision.
It seems insensitive at least and also bad PR to let this killer knock on doors.
Particularly in an area where he might encounter people he made into victims.
Could he not have helped make the tea in the office instead?
Gio killing is killing. I personally believe it is all wrong, but do you think that Jeffery Donaldson is insensitive as he choses to engage with politics even though he was a member of the UDR which murdered innocent people?
I can genuinely understand the pain of one of Mr Kellys specific victims, or any IRA victims, but think about it from the other point of view: You would never think it is absurd for Paddy Ashdown etc to get involved in politics even though he is trained to murder people.
Bad things happened here, past tense. The media need to focus on current killings and the impact those murderers are having on the election.
“I can genuinely understand the pain of one of Mr Kellys specific victims, or any IRA victims, but think about it from the other point of view”
Well you hit the nail on the head Eamon, most Unionists refuse, utterly refuse, to see things from other people’s point of view. There are a minority of Unionists who do see things from everyone’s point of view, accept valid points and want to move on but they are few and far between.
Martin McGuinness not long before he died said Unionist politicians had psychological issues. What I think he meant by that in one respect is they are psychologically incapable, or brainwashed I would say, to accept the truth of the past. If I was a Unionist I would accept that Unionists played a very large part in cementing the conditions for violence to flourish here and even encouraged it in many quarters. That’s the truth but very few can accept it despite the overwhelming evidence.
Eamon
I think that if Jeffrey had personally killed a number of people then it might be considered a bit insensitive if he turned up in the neighbourhood knocking on doors
Same for Paddy Ashdown or anyone else really.
Gio what about the UDA and the DUP working together? Do you not think that is a bit insensitive?
Eamon
Of course. The DUP should be clearly distancing themselves from the UDA who are thugs and criminals with nothing to offer society.
No democratic party should want any endorsement from them.
I hope that is clear enough.
Young people considering whether or not to vote must look at our two main parties and despair.
Now do you think it was insensitive to let Sean Kelly out knocking on peoples doors?
Gio in an ideal situation there would have been no need for a war, however there was one. We have to deal with the reality of the situation, Mr Kelly in the past was a soldier in an army engaged a war. What you need to remember is that he was a soldier in an army fighting for his country. I always find it ludicrous how individuals think nothing of wearing a poppy in work and at the same time complain how inappropriate it is for someone to wear an Easter Lilly.
He has now moved on and is engaged in community politics, the exact thing everyone was asking of individuals like him.
Eamon
So you don’t think it insensitive?
Gio do you believe that the Poppy and Easter Lilly have equal weighting?
Eamon
I did answer your question about the UDA clearly and unequivocally.
Do you think it insensitive at all to have Sean Kelly knocking on doors?
Sean I think that if Mr Kelly called a the door of a victim of the bombing, then it would be insensitive. I don’t think that would happen though. I don’t think he should be stopped from engaging with the election.
Do you think the Poppy and Easter Lilly have equal weighting?
Eamon
I agree he should not be stopped, if that is what he wants to do.
It is better than blowing people to bits I am sure you will agree.
What on earth has the poppy and the lily got to do with this?
Gio I wondered about the Poppy v Easter Lilly as it is all about mindset. In the same way a lot of journalists will have a go at Gerry Kelly for being involved in an army as part of a war won’t do it to the like of Tom Elliot etc who were part of an army.
Do they have equal weighting?
Eamon
I am not too sure what you mean and it is a complete diversion from the topic, but I have no issue with someone wearing either one.
I wear neither.
Gio it is about legitimacy of the struggle. This idea that British soildiers are brave because they protected us yet the likes of the IRA are bad because they just want to kill everyone. This mindset is at the heart of the whole process.
I rang the Nolan show about several breaches of electoral law where several callers were allowed to continue mentioning John Finucane and North Belfast during this discussion.Surprisingly my comment got no mention at all.
michael
Which electoral law are you referring to?
The ‘ establishment’ for want of a better word pushed for years for republicans to go to the polls and turn themselves away from armed struggle. Now that this has been achieved the politicos in unionism are still whinging. Some people are never satisfied……
I have to agree with you on this one Jude, If Seán Kelly has renounced killing for peaceful politics it can only be a positive thing. People don’t have to like/agree/engage with him but he can’t be expected to never leave his home or walk the streets again since he is a free citizen.
This does though remind of those people who gave up the most in order for there to be peace in Northern Ireland. The victims families who not only suffered the loss of loved ones, but also had to have justice ripped away from them when those same murderers were released under the GFA and still have to suffer (potentially) seeing those people live a normal happy life when their life has been ruined. The victims deserve all the support this society can give them.
Why has there been no similar hullaballoo over the fact that Jackie McDonald, boss of the UDA killer gang (not on ceasefire) was pictured last week canvassing with DUP boss Arlene Foster?
Jude, you say that the BelTel picked the story about Sean Kelly’s canvassing for their front page today.
But as Wee Jeff was able to tell us last night what the front page lead would be today, I suggest that the anti-SF story was planted by the DUP to try to spoil the chances of John Finucane in north Belfast.
Is the fact that the DUP have so much influence on the editorial content of the BelTel due to their similarly minded Lurgan editor Gail Walker? If so, then they should rename it the ‘Protestant Telegraph’!
There’s talk here of the DUP distancing themselves from the UDA. But is there really much difference to begin with? Is it not a bit ludicrous to suggest distancing themselves, when that might be like splitting the atom?
Maybe that’s unfair, but is there perhaps a golden thread running through the Orange Order, DUP and UDA?
see orange order – conflict of interest
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2013/07/17/orange-order-vs-the-state-conflict-of-interest/
Election booths open in a few hours, I’ve not seen a candidate, nor party representative yet, albeit, my wee lassie did run after the DUP canvasser to give him his leaflet back when he called to her house.
Gio,Nolan himself stated that callers were not allowed to mention individual candidates or constituencies but several callers continued to do so.I understand there is a time delay of several seconds on these programmes .It could have been used to stop this.
michael
I don’t think the blackout applies so early before polling.
Maybe this was some BBC guidelines they were following, but I doubt if it was a breach of any law.
Sean Kelly is entitled to canvas as much as the next man. Yes, he has a past but so does most every Irish political party.
However, from comments above, it would be wrong to glorify his actions. Mr Kelly was a foot soldier in a dirty war perpetrated by two ruthless and unapologetic factions, quite happy to spill the blood of innocent Irish men, women and children in pursuit of their futile aspirations.
Sean Kelly is entitled to canvas as much as the next man. Yes, he has a past but so does most every Irish political party.
However, from comments above, it would be wrong to glorify his actions. Mr Kelly was a foot soldier in a dirty war perpetrated by two ruthless and unapologetic factions, quite happy to spill the blood of innocent Irish men, women and children in pursuit of their futile aspirations.
It is inevitable that relics of their past will surface, but as time moves on they will be confined to the annals of history
Is Nolan STILL parroting his tripe on the radio?? Is the Belfast Tell a lie still actually available?? Sean Kelly was an IRA volunteer. Jeffrey Donaldson was a UDR man. Opposite sides in a conflict. Each is entitled to his political views.