In Henry V, Shakespeare has a minor Irish character ask a number of angry questions:
“What ish my nation? Ish a villain, and a bastard, and a knave, and a rascal? What ish my nation? Who talks of my nation?”
We’ve been asking the same kind of question in the intervening five hundred years and getting poor answers from many. Northern unionists, naturally enough, would identify their ‘nation’ with the United Kingdom. Some years ago, Sammy Wilson declared that there was not a drop of Irish blood in his veins.
These attitudes to the Irish nation are to be expected. But the greatest challenge to the idea of an Irish nation today comes, not from the north, but the south.
Check out the Letters section in today’s Irish Times. Under the heading of “Local and national politics”, there are two letters which explore these matters.
Joe McCarthy of Arbour Hill urges a division of labour, with some TDs attending to local matters and some to “national”. Mike Cormack of Blackrock is concerned about “a litany of national [issues] – Garda reform, the HSE, the Eighth Amendment, etc).”
You might think that the cenuturies-old aspiration towards Irish unity, not to mention the Good Friday Agreement, might have wakened such letter-writers to the fact that the nation of Ireland runs from Derry to Dingle, from Newry to Westport – the island of Ireland, to coin a phrase. And that to talk about the nation and national matters when you mean the state and state matters is to show an ignorance of goegraphy and history.
But will there be a single letter (apart, perhaps, from one I plan to write myself) correcting this lazy dismissal of a sizeable chunk of the Irish nation? You bet there won’t be. It’s in the interests of southern politicians and the southern media to keep the crazy nordies out of sight and more particularly out of mind, when talking about national matters.
“What ish my nation?” Too many southerners don’t know or don’t want to be reminded they have one.
Good points
Think of the home nations or the five nations cup and you’ll only get more confused. When you think of the time,money and blood that nations expended to enlarge their empire and there you have the free staters trying to shrink theirs. (Is it still ok to speak of free starters?)
Does the Dubai Irish Open, currently taking place in the north include the whole of Ireland or what?
This attitude is the result of a very deliberate policy by successive London and Dublin governments and they have fed the Dublin media very well and controlled them ever since partition. Gianna Fail gave lip service to the Natioal question while Fine Gael perished a distinct pro Brit policy whic can on be described as traitorous! The Dublin media have taken the Queens shilling and vilified everything Nationalistic. Look at the likes of John Bruton- calls 1916 a great mistake but lauds the fools who died for the Crown in the Somme!
To be honest, you really cant blame some southern people not wanting a United Ireland. Now, before some people jump down my throat, bear with me.
I have family in Dublin, one of my them is my father, who was involved (like many young people of his era, from both communities) in the Troubles. I wont go into much detail about that but he left when I was still a baby in nappies and has been in Dublin since. The South of the early 90’s is very far from the one in 2017. The South then was pretty much a backwater, it had serious economic problems and emigration was high. But that all changed from the late 90’s onwards. The South is one of the most successful economies in the World, never mind Europe, today. Without a doubt, Irish Nationalism was much stronger in the early 90’s with the average joe from the 26 counties but today that’s been succeeded by an interest in International affairs and economic well being, largely influenced by membership of the EU and by technology such as the Internet. The South has largely lost interest in the North because there’s much more interesting (and positive) things to focus on. Britain has always held this view of the North anyway, they really couldn’t care less about Unionists or Nationalists, even Paisley acknowledged this to Martin McGuinness.
My father pointed this out to me a few times when I visited him in Dublin. He basically said that people in the South have much more important and interesting things on their minds. I suppose they used Irish nationalism in the past to help escape the reality of poverty, in the same way many Loyalist working class communities today use a sectarian brand of British Nationalism to escape from their poverty/issues, which is seen as embarrassing to upper class Unionism. Author Susan McKay points out in her book that in upper class Unionist areas she visited there’s rarely a Union flag on display. Indeed many upper class Unionists said they were open to a United Ireland in her book. Again economic well being had an influence.
I have no doubt that a majority of southerners want a United Ireland but they wont fight for it because they are too comfortable. They see the sectarian flying of Union flags, the bonfires burning Tricolours, the endless parades from the likes of the Orange Order, etc and its very off-putting. Who could blame them? It would put me off. Most southerners want a United Ireland when all this dies off. They want it when Nationalism is a majority and maybe even a large majority. The truth is the British Government also want the same thing in the long run.
I used to get annoyed…not overly , by the ” West Brit ” element in Irish society. If you take , from “Strongbows” unwelcome incursion into Irish affairs until the present day , England has always had a unilateral and obsessively destructive self-interest here. For 847 years we have taken her genocidal attempts at our destruction…….and we have survived. Their were always the soul-selling gombeens , ready and willing to do the Saxons bidding….they existed in the past as they exist today….but they’re immaterial …..England left her garrison here , on both sides of her imposed border…..should they appear in the format of Fianna Faill , SDLP , or whoever …but they don’t matter….we’re stronger than that…. we’ll take our country back for the people who are proud and want to be Irish and we’ll mould it to our liking…. the rest ….well that’s up to themselves but …
I have written numerous letters on this topic to the IT but never had one printed. I know that rhey have only room a few to publish out of a large maibag but what rankles me is that some contributors appear to have a hot line to the editor. These include, in no particular order John A. Murphy, Paul Williams, a certain Paddy McEvoy and an Aoife Lord of Tankardstown. I think It safe to say that none would be notorious for their extreme republican or left-wing views.
Surely these letter writers are simply viewing the world as it is,and not as it might be wished?
It is just a fact that Ireland now functions as 2 separate entities and has done for nearly 100 years.
That is reality.
Issues such as Garda reform, the HSE, the Eighth Amendment and so on are administered on a 26 county basis.
This refusal to accept reality is the same affliction that leads to some being unable to utter the words ‘Northern Ireland’, as though saying it would somehow make it more real.
“This refusal to accept reality is the same affliction that leads to some being unable to utter the words ‘Northern Ireland’, as though saying it would somehow make it more real”
Its not just SF/SDLP who usually refer to the state of Northern Ireland as “the North” Gio, whenever I tune into RTE or listen to TD’s even from Fianna Fail/Fine Gael talk about us, they usually say “the North” instead of Northern Ireland. I’m not saying they do it as often as Sinn Fein but most of the time they don’t say Northern Ireland but “the North”. That’s been my experience anyway. The same applies to Derry/Londonderry. The official name of the City is Londonderry but I have never yet heard RTE/TD’s refer to the city as “Londonderry”, its always “Derry”. Bear in mind many of these same Fianna Fail/Fine Gael TD’s are just as anti-SF as any DUP MP would be. They know very well Northern Ireland exists, some even support its existence, but yet they still usually use terms like “the North” or “Derry”.
I wouldn’t say its a refusal to accept “reality”, I think its a refusal to accept British terms/names. Its no secret Northern Ireland exists as a state but those who refuse to use its name see it illegitimate or simply see it as a part of an All Ireland. Many British politicians are guilty of this too. Tom King, ex-SoS, even stated he was told never to publically associate Northern Ireland with an all Ireland, despite him always seeing it that way before he took up the job. Instead only the terms “Ulster” or “Northern Ireland” were acceptable at the time for British politicians. Indeed you never hear the BBC/ITN ever referring to NI as “Ulster” anymore. That’s deliberate.
I agree most people in South more worried about bread and butter issues than Irish Unity. Though I don’t think the disconnect is comparable with that of people in Britain, who never showed any interest in NI to begin with.
Ryan
Yes terms like Derry and ‘the North’ are common enough and really I just don’t see that it is that big a deal now.
Presumably those who will not use Northern Ireland are determined not to give it any legitimacy, yet it is specifically referred to throughout the GFA, a document that SF insist must be honoured in full.
So I don’t think it a big deal if someone refuses to use Northern Ireland but equally I don’t think it a big deal if someone refers to Northern Ireland when talking about issues specific to the 6 counties or ‘national’ issues in the context of administering the 26 counties.
It hardly makes them a West Brit does it?’
Gio,
Without a doubt, SF refuse to use NI in order to express their view of NI being illegitimate. Certainly politicians in the South 100 years ago or even 50 years ago had the same agenda but I don’t think that applies today to most politicians in the South or even in the SDLP.
When it comes to the North, if SF ever did start saying Northern Ireland then that would potentially cost them votes. It has certainly cost the SDLP votes when they use it. I think the reason why is because of political Unionisms insistence on using Northern Ireland (Jeffrey Donaldson has a history of checking people on the name of this place, even checking a teenage girl in a debate when she said “the North”). This insistence causes nationalists, especially SF voters, to be more stubborn. Also, terms here often expose a persons politics. Derry/Londonderry is the most common way to expose someones political opinion. Most Unionists say Londonderry, most Nationalists say Derry. Obviously no Unionist/Nationalist politician wants their political stance to be questioned by using the “other sides” terms.
Though to be fair to Sinn Fein, Martin McGuinness invited a Protestant Pastor (I believe Rev. Latimer) to a SF conference and introduced him by saying something like “This man calls this city Londonderry, we call it Derry, we should respect each others views”. I cant remember word for word but it was basically about respecting each others use of terms, such as “the North” or “Londonderry”.
In regard to GFA, well SF can stop using NI but they cant force others to stop using it and vice versa. They cant demand people to drop using NI anymore than Unionists can demand people stop using Derry.
Ryan
I more or less agree with all of that. I don’t know how many votes SF would lose if they named the in-nameable, and possibly they would gain more than they lost.
However I think they are unlikely to change their habits now, at least in the short term and it is not really worth falling out over.
As I say I think it is a somewhat unfair to criticise the letter writers in question based on their usage of generally accepted terminology.
Slow news day!
I use both ‘The north’ and ‘Northern Ireland’. The latter is the official name of the state, the former indicates that I see it as part of Ireland. My tongue doesn’t blister over after either…
Giordano ,can I put the same questions to you as I put to Scott? Do you think that the unionists have honoured all previous agreements? Do you think it would be wise to resurrect an Executive? Do you think any positive results would come from parallel talks?
fiosrach
I don’t see the relevance to the topic to be honest but…
no I don’t think the DUP have honoured their previous agreements.
I do think it better to resurrect the Executive, but I have doubts. I do not like the idea of the DUP whispering in Theresa’s ear while there is no Nationalist/Republican input to government at all.
On the other hand that might pan out to the advantage of nationalism in the longer term so it is hard to call.
I’m not sure what parallel talks would entail or who is proposing that, but I don’t see any way round the stalemate for now. Both parties have tactical reasons to stand their ground and we will have to wait for something to crack.
Groundhog Gio sees a shadow and predicts at least 6 more months of political winter.
Funny how the staters consider us nordies to be part of the”nation” when we win something in sport or are successful musicians ,poets or artists!
I thought that was Britain’s role, michael c…
Michael, you are absolutely right. It bothers me a lot to hear people in the Republic talk about nordies etc. Then they are only too delighted to wrap a tricolour around a boxer from Belfast when he comes home with an olimpic medal
Unionists freely use terms that are incorrect, like ‘Ulster’ and ‘the province’ when they mean the statelet of Northern Ireland. I find that insulting. And why should nationalist people just get on with it and refer to the 6 counties as NI, rather than the north and just ignore the wrongs and hurt that has gone before. You’ve got to have something to believe in, or else what have you in life that’s real?
I tend to judge staters by the number of times they utter “northern Ireland” in an interview.Any more than a couple of times and we’re well into west Brit territory!
I absolutely agree with Michel C. Another term that makes my blood boil, especially when used by SF is ‘The Island of Ireland’s or simply “this/ the Ireland. Ireland existed long before the establishment of the two partitionist states and will, I hope, exist after their demise. I seem to remember Republicans and nationalist spoke about “the 32 counties of Ireland”.