Facing into life on a grey Monday morning takes courage. You try not to think of that person at work with the smarmy ways, that boss who’s devoid of reason, that daily commute which leaves your lungs stuffed full of carbon dioxide and your nerves shredded.
The state of political affairs doesn’t induce delight either. Michell O’Neill has declared Sinn Féin would like to get round the table with all parties by 28 August, and has written to all hands saying so. Quick as a rat up a drainpipe Robin Swann, the leader of the party which got creamed in the last election, declares that Sinn Féin don’t want to go back into the Executive, they’re just pretending they do.
Robin is half-right. Sinn Féin don’t want to go back into the Executive as it was before things fell apart. And instead of nyamping that the Shinners don’t really want to go back into an Executive, Robin would be better employed checking why they don’t want to.
Because the previous Executive reeked of bad faith, arrogance and general high-handedness. You’d like a few exampes, Robin? Certainly.
- A Bill of Rights promised in the Good Friday Agreement and not delivered. Do the DUP care? Nah. They’re having too much fun in bed with the Tories.
- An Irish Language Act was promised in the St Andrew’s Agreement and hasn’t been delivered. Do the DUP care? Nah. They’re too busy tickling Theresa May’s financial sweet spot.
- The Lord Chief Justice, Sir Declan Morgan, has urged the funding of a number of Legacy cases. Do the DUP care? Nah. Legacy schmegacy. Does Morgan think they’ve got money to b —, um, that they have a magic money tree?
- Arlene Foster has called her political partners in the Executive a bunch of reptiles. Has she apologized to them for so saying? Nah. She’s said she’s sorry she said it because it lost her seats.
- Arlene Foster has refused to stand aside as First Minister while the RHI scandal, a scheme she initiated and supervised, is investigated for the potential loss of hundreds of millions of taxpayers’ money. Will she stand temporarily aside? Nah. That would be to respond to a Shinner diktat.
You get the picture, Robin. You may declare that the Shinners are putting up red lines and are not prepared to negotiate on them. So that’s red lines on things that were solemnly promised in writing, funding as recommended by the top judge in the land, contemptuous language that remains in place, and a refusal to allow a substitute to act as First Minister ( a la Peter Robinson) while an investigation is conducted.
You bet there are red lines, Robin. They are red lines which say “We want to know we can rely on things people commit to, we want some degree of respect in speaking of other parties, we want justice as recommended by the Lord Chief Justice, we want the DUP leader to do what any CEO in a similar position would do without question.”
So you are indeed right, Robin. The Shinners are not for going back in as was. Just as you wouldn’t buy the finest mansion, regardless of knock-down price, if you knew the present owners had removed the foundations.
No, Robin. Putting your fingers in your ears and saying “La la, can’t hear, la la la!” is not really a mature response.
There was no bill of rights promised in the Good Friday Agreement.
The DUP has now agreed to Irish language legislation.
Foster didn’t call SF reptiles. She used crocodiles as an analogy. Far worse than that, Adams called the DUP bastards: contemptuous language that remains in place.
Maybe Jude should try looking at things a bit more objectively. This article is entirely one-sided.
When the D.U.P. finally embraced the G.F.A. they also embraced everything that came with it in previous agreements…They, and the greater Unionist/Loyalist family have absolutely nothing to fear with the introduction of “Acht na Gaeilge”. Better they are seen to be progressive and fair in such issues, as this will stand to their advantage in the uncertain days ahead when Unionism/Loyalism moves ever more deeply into minority status.. Smart Politics is to move with the times and not to blindly and stubbornly become entrenched in a position whereby you practice negative Politics just because You are not enjoying the reality that You are now the minority..They (D.U.P. and the wider Unionist/Loyalist Family) need to have friends where they are going and they have not done a very good job thus far in attracting them…The Conservative Party are a useful ally right now but History shows clearly that such Alliances are short lived and normally end in Political bloodshed and normally to the expense of the smaller Party.
The majority of unionists voted against the GFA. The DUP didn’t sign up to the GFA. They demonstrated against it outside the tent. The DUP has not agreed to a stand alone Irish Language Act but are attempting a fudge of their own to prove how reasonable and amenable they are. Adams said that equality would break those unionists who were against equality – a reasonable assumption. How long will it take to penetrate the fog that we are not going back to the Orange state or status quo. As the DUP try to build up a head of steam about social issues and enrage the voters we should remember that their bed mates hold the purse strings.
fiosrach
Have you evidence for that?
I don’t think they did although I am open to correction.
Dedeideoprofundis has provided one link on another thread for you and this study seems to contradict your view also.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07907180108406633
Gio bio, going from memory and a vague recollection of a unionist producing these figures, it went like this. 71% of electorate voted yes. Nearly all the Nats voted yes, equal to say 40% of that vote. That leaves 31% of unionists voted yes plus the % that boycotted means that a majority of unionists abstained or voted against. My figures are poetic and can be challenged but as I said they came from the unionist camp.
An abstention cannot be regarded as a vote against.
Ergo, the majority of Unionists – narrowly – voted for the GFA.
I make it 31% of unionists voted yes. and an abstention or a boycott is a vote against.
Those figures make no sense.
Try again,Tam.
fiosrach
I like poetry but there is neither rhyme nor reason in that.
In the absence of concrete evidence other than your memory, I have to go with the studies linked which suggest you are wrong.
A published peer reviewed paper or the opinion of a republican troll? I think I’ll go with the former.
71% of the electorate didn’t vote yes. 71% of those who voted did.
And if 71% of all voters voted yes that means 31% of all voters voted no. It doesnt mean that 31% of unionists voted yes.
You are right, Tam. I meant that of the total 71% that voted yes only 31% were unionist if you accept that a massive majority of nationalists voted yes.
That doesn’t follow at all. You’re just picking a figure from the air.
Where did the authors get their figures? In a secret ballot? I’m as entitled to pluck figures as they are.
Guys regardless of how many on one side voted for this or that, What We have to remember here is as a remainer in the Brexit campaign I have been told I have to respect the wishes of a small majority…So by the same rule of thumb the D.U.P. must respect that the Majority in the North voted for the G.F.A.
Just checked on link provided by dedeideoprofundis and am not impressed. One mustn’t assume what one is told to prove.
fiosrach
Still waiting for your evidence.
Gerry Adams called the DUP “Bastards”, often rendered “Love Children”. He might more accurately have described them as “Dastards” or even “Hate Children.” The Buggers deserve it.D
So Foster uses crocodile merely as an analogy. That’s bad.
Adams calls the DUP bastards. That’s OK.
Are Jude and his followers really so one-sided to the point of myopia?
If You are as I am, an Irish Speaker Then those who deny Me my rights to my Language being offered a little respect as one of the oldest Languages in the World, and would deny Me the same rights as those enjoyed in Wales and in Scotland…Then I’m afraid You are indeed a bit of a Bastard. Acht na Gaeilge anois.
He did NOT call the DUP bastards. He did NOT call unionists bastards. Read the speech,Tam. With glasses on this time.
He did.
Nah, he didn’t. You should listen to the audio.
So tell me, how would equality break the DUP? How would equality break the ordinary Unionist punter? Work us all through this idea.
It doesn’t break them. But it’s Adams you need to ask not me
No language act, equal marriage, or Bill of Rights? – then SF will maintain their position as their voters want them to.
The others I personally have no strong feelings for one way or the other, but as a SF voter the ones I mentioned matter to me.
Maybe what we can do is start off with a blank slate.
No marches, no money for cultural whatevers, no commemorations, no money for cultural leaders etc.
Then we can propose what both Unionists and Nationalists would like t gave for their communities and others who might enjoy it.
E.g. 12th July marches for Unionists and fans of big bands and walking, Irish language Act for Nationalists and supports of Irish speaking.
That might be fair.
Then we don’t get any of this nonsense that they get everything and we get naffin and each community can see who it is that is getting the funding.
As I already said, the DUP have already agreed to language legislation, while there was never any agreement on gay marriage and no commitment to a further bill of rights.
While youse north of the Black Sow’s Dyke, Esteemed Blogmeister, were being regaled by the red, red robin’s bob bob bobbing along, we weren’t doing too badly neither down here south of the same BSD.
For on the Dame Dosh Finucane’s must-listen show on RTE Radio 1 with Sunday Morning Coming Down there were some first rate Guests of the Nation’s Station who held us all hostage by the fluency of their superb contributions.
Two will do / Déanfaidh beirt an chuis.
1. Bertie, for starters. (Like Elvis, no surname needed).
Natrually, the Imgroglio (no, Joe, it’s an Italian word) in the Wee Six was under discussion.
Having first treated us to his uniquely freaky take on the Second Official Language in which he fumbled for his cleanest dirty syntax–
-Em, dere are now people on de British side dealing wid Brexit who are now beginning – (wait for it !) –
-to dawn reality.
To Dawn Reality. (Remember where youse heard it first).
After thus contributing his latest coinage to de Royal Mint, de, erm, once and past Taoiseach and former Minister for Barter who is right well known for having a pint of Arthur in his paw wid American Presidents down in his local the Hypochondriac Anaconda of Drumcondra (as he is fondly known and not just to his, erm, enemas) then went to opine dat he would not –
-Compel de Loyalists of East Belfast to display dere roadnames As Gaeilge. No way.
2. Sean Donlon, formerly his Excellency The Ambassador of the Free Southern Stateen to the USA, continued to do what he had been doing with such aplomb of late at the McGill Summer Shout Out, talk through his whole grain bread.
After once more (yawn) putting his Seven League Brogue (aquired on the banks of the Potomac?) into the Shinners of the Wee Six, the topic du jour then moved on to that of statues, both moving and stationary.
-During my time in Washington the British (Embassy) wanted to erect a statue to Winston Churchill. But (chuckling) the Irish American lobby insisted that we too get to erect a statue of Robert Emmet on Massachusets Avenue. So (louder chuckles) we got a copy of the one that stands in St. Stephen’s Green !
Eh?
Do we have a distinguished diplomat or yore who is operating in some kind of Time and Newsweek Warp here? Surely not, Shirley !
Consider, however sadly, the following:
The original statue of Robert Emmet (by the renowned sculptor, Jerome Connor) was cast in 1916 and dedicated on Massachussets Avenue in 1917.
The statue of Robert Emmet, an exact replica of the original statue in Washington, was erected in St. Stephen’s Green in 1968, two years after being gifted to the Iirsh Nation by the USA Robert Emmet Statue Committee
His Excellency SD (no, it doesn’t stand for Social Democrat but rather for Sean Donlon) served as the Ambassador of the 26 Counties to the 50 States from (gulp) 1978 to 1984.
Warming to this task the much Admired Ambassador of yore (particularly in rear view mirrors, that sorta thingy) went on to warm his seat even more and he continue to regale his chuckle sister of a hostess with another tale of a different statue. While once more managing to talk, gan teip, through his whole grain bread.
-There is a statue of Father Mathew in South Tipperary.
(Editorial note: Yes, indeed, the Gold Card Corkman was actually a native of Enemy Tertitory, like – a native of Golden, County Tipp’rary, Home of de Shtone Throwers, boy ).
-He, of course, was the founder of the Pioneers and I have yet to pass the statue – ( cue a tsunami of chuckles ) – without seeing a glass in his hand !
Further pint, oops, point of information, Omniscient Ambassador:
-Father Mathew was, erm, not actually the founder of the Pioneers. Which movement (Pioneer Total Abstinence Association) was founded in 1898, by Father James Cullen, SJ, some years after the Good Lord had finally called ‘Time, Gentleman, Time’ on Father Theobald Mathew in 1856.
Sums would not seem to be Sean Donlon’s forte. Or, indeed, history. Whatever about the dark yet no doubt necessary arts of Diplomacy and Cultivating the Meejia.
Hopefully, Bertie with his bockety Béarla but marvellous grasp of Mental Arithmetic got a chance to whisper a trute or two (diplomatically) into de ear of de current Ambassador to the Court of Amour Propre in a pub, wid a glass of de black stuff (cf Iveagh House) in each of their pre-maw paws in some Donybrook, Dublin 4 snug.
It’s extremely important that SF don’t do what the SDLP seem to be advocating and compromise on citizens rights for a continued pay cheque. If Stormont falls and that looks likely, it will be because unionism couldn’t stomach equality and govern for all the people instead of a fundamentalist clique.
What citizens’ rights is the SDLP compromising?
I see Michelle is calling for a resumption of talks. but if these 5 red lines as suggested by Jude are accurate then I can’t see the point.
What chance is there of Arlene stepping aside at this point?
Zero I suggest. And the shinners unless they are hopelessly naïve must know this.
Mere game playing.
What about keeping Stormont in suspended animation till the Coghlin Report winds up and exonerates all concerned. Then we’ll just have 4 red lines. Two of those, according to the DUP are not their responsibility ie the SAA was between governments and there was no mention of the Bill of Rights in the Good Friday Agreement. So that’s it well whittled down – according to the DUP. We’re almost back into Stormont, aren’t we?
fiosrach
In that case there would be no point in suggesting talks at this time, would there?
Looks good but!
I have serious problems with anyone who doesn’t understand that crocodiles are of the reptilian ilk. As far as I am aware they, like snakes and lizards are most definitely reptiles. As for people who do not believe in the idea of “equality” , the perfectly usable moniker “bastards” is too good for them ….”right bastards” might be even more expressive and emphatic.Those who do not believe that every citizen is deserving of the same treatment in law , across society ,really are “right bastards” .Of course I’m not saying that Gerry Adams actually called anyone specifically a “bastard” or referred to a specific group as “bastards” but we do get the gist of what the man might have meant . H e was obviously referring to those who do not believe in bills of rights or even the equality of your fellow citizens. Those kind of people would never sit right for me either.Some called this idea of a Bill of Rightsa “trojan horse” to the equality agenda ….well whatever works , I say. if it allows all our children , no matter their sexuality , race , religion or none a fair crack of the whip , that’s exactly what i want and it is what i support.Someone who does not believe in equality is not a very pleasant person in my eyes and really has issues with natural civic morality and laws need to be in place to control such abhorrent individuals. It’s the only way that anyone could possibly deal with them.Having equal rights doesn’t actually hurt anyone and i would love some of these equal -rights deniers to explain to me what actual good it does them to believe what they believe.
As for language acts , I would also like the deniers of such things to also explain what harm such acts might bring too . If it’s down to money …well we’ve been awfully good at wasting money here for a very long time so if it’s cash that’s worrying anyone that’s a non-starter when they’re about to spend billions on a Brexit that wasn’t really needed to get back to somewhere worse than we are now.
If the latest “talk about talks” is also a stunt by Sinn Fein to pretend that they are really interested in getting back on the bus with the DUP….well the DUpPspent a good ten years practising stunt politics{remember Hokey Cokey, anyone?) which eventually brought the train off the rails….so no surprise there either.I don’t think anyone is ready to start back on that old game anyway. Certainly Sinn Fein supporters might be very reluctant to believe anything the DUP might say and in any case everyone has long memories.I’m not sure I weven want to give the DUP the oxygen of political exposure any time soon .
paddy Are you saying that you accept it is game playing by the shinners but so what?
Can we not expect any better from Sinn Fein than ‘if its good enough for the DUP…’?
Paddy, it was Adams who said “equality” was a Trojan horse.
Gio and Tam . I think that the old game has run its course .If there is to be an entirely new game to the one all of us who watched the last one play out to a very natural climax will be very interested as to how either Sinn Fein or the DUP can sell us that a new game .I don’t believe that the DUP have yet realised why the door was shut .If they have , they havn’t said so.They do not fill me with any sense that they are ready to embrace modernity yet …and that is what I personally need from them.
As for Gerry Adams and the Trojan Horse remark. Yes he said that.You are right and it was a ploy that could only ever work if kept as a secret so he blew that one, didn’t he ? Then again I think it was a perfectly viable ploy , given what there is to gain for society.Still .his language could have been even stronger still in the context of having to actually sell something as beneficial to the whole society for anyone .You really should n’t have to sell that one or sneak it in as a war game to any fair-minded and sensible person. The fact that you would have to indulge in subterfuge to do something like this ,tells you everything you need to know about the political playmates we are supposed to indulge..
To do something like what?
paddy
I don’t know if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me.
Given that everyone including SF knows that Arlene is not going to stand aside anytime soon is the suggestion of renewed talks by O’Neill simply a bit of game playing?
I would think so gio.Everything is a game to politicians ,isn’t it? I can’t see it any other way because I can’t imagine anyone wants Sinn Fein to allow Arlene or any of the DUP back in harness just yet . I can’t see what good it would do other than giving us all another twenty years of nonsense politics and schoolboy foolishness at Stormont. What have the DUP to offer? I’m damned if I can see anything good coming from that .It doesn’t matter now if Arlene comes or goes because she has already proven that she didn’t know what shared government was all about.Has she learned that trick in this past eight months? I have n’t heard that at all.
Hold on……if Jude is now saying that Stormont has delivered nothing in the 19 years since the GFA, is he agreeing with the Dissies when they refer to Sinn Fein as “rollover republicans”?
Seems to be the logic of his position.
But Jude’s not big on logic. He says you can’t logically condemn the Provisional IRA unless you also condemn the United Irishmen.
Both armed terrorists in an illegal conspiracy against their lawful British masters. Of course you have to condemn both – or neither.
No you don’t.
Yes you do.
Study the numbers again, huge Celt. You know how you almost got a seat in W Belfast – if you had have got the numbers.
Are they similar to the nationalist “surge” of 3.9% and near-parity with the DUPers, in yet another sectarian head-count?
Break out “A Nation Once Again”, and hang out your brightest colours….
Emmm…..not quite.
A vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for the DUPers and the Tories. And the status quo.
The Lord loves a trier. Stick at it,huge. Is the Labour/Conservative struggle not sectarian? Like between two sects?
Oh right, so Westminster is a sectarian headcount too?
Which side are the Prods? And the Taigs?
Everything doesn’t revolve around religion,huge. You can have all sorts of sects. Check sect in the old reliable foclóir.
So you’ve has another rethink, Westminster isn’t a sectarian headcount?
“it doesn’t matter now if Arlene comes or goes because she has already proven that she didn’t know what shared government was all about.”
Paddykool,
“By sharing power, unionists are negating the reason they insisted on the state being created in the first place.”
To me that says it all.