I always find it interesting to read the Letters section of The Irish Times, mainly because it contains the unfiltered voice of at least some of the citizens of the south. Admittedly, the citizen who reads and writes into The Irish Times is not your ordinary Sean, but it still tells us what’s on the mind of those who read the newspaper, as distinct from the people who write it.
And in today’s edition, there is a group of letters all discussing the suggested royal presence at the 1916 centenary celebrations. Until recently all was going swimmingly, Enda was telling his people how it’d be a milestone in the relationship between our two countries, blah blah blahdey blah. And then Professor Diarmuid Ferriter of UCD wrote in and said it’d be no such thing, it’d be a distraction from the commemoration of heroic men who gave their lives in order that Ireland would be self-governing.
This morning there’s a string of letters taking Ferriter’s side in the argument. Tom Cooper of Templeogue declares “I believe the Government decision to invite British royalty to the centenary commemoration of the 1916 Rising is a deliberate attempt to use the glamour and cult of celebrity monarchy to distract public attention away from the ideology and ideals of the women and men of 1916”. Felix M Larkin of Cabinteely wants to know why they don’t “consider extending an invitation to a representative of the House of Hohenzollern in view of the reference in the 1916 Proclamation to ‘our gallant allies in Europe’ ?” Mary Kay Simmons weighs in: “It is inconceivable to me that we should commemorate this Rising and the subsequent deaths that resulted from it and the conflicts that followed as if rule by the British Empire had been a benign agreement between two nations”.And finally Mike Scott of North Ballybough believes we are “acting out a strange echo of life in Ireland 100 years ago. We have had the royal visit, and a mild reawakening of pro-British sentiment. We have an understanding and empathy for those who decided then to rush to the British army recruiting stations. Constitutional nationalism dominates the political agenda, but is showing signs of ideological exhaustion. A Sinn Féin-led opposition is growing in strength”.
Hardly the line you’ll hear coming from the coalition seats in the Dail or the editorial page of The Irish Times. And yet, despite the critical tone adopted by all of the letter-writers, one glaringly obvious and confoundedly difficult matter is raised by none of them: partition. It really is risible that people who see themselves as rightly critical of government hypocrisy fail to see the hypocrisy of ignoring a situation that would have appalled the women and men of 1916.
Doublethink or what?


The north continues to be a moot point,-indeed almost a taboo. We can be thankful at least that common sense in a growing proportion of our southern fellow countrymen and woman are seeing a forth coming love in with Symbolic head of the British Empire for thr incongruous absurdity it is. Maybe they will look to the north of the country after the elections.
Hey Jude we are in danger of forgetting the double everything as a result of partition; Double education system, double health system, double economic system , transport, culture, telecommunications etc. Costing us North and South, financially, morally and culturally
Good Friday Agreement referendum, 1998
It may be worth reflecting on the question posed in the referendum on 22 May 1998. In the north of Ireland, people were asked, “Do you support the agreement reached at the multi – party talks on Northern Ireland and set out in Command Paper 3883?”
The referendum in the Republic of Ireland on the same day, rather than explicitly seeking approval of the Agreement itself, sought endorsement of constitutional amendments required by the Agreement.
The fault line, like partition, remains the elephant in the room. Politicians regularly regurgitate derived thinking about majority and minority votes. Partition was and is undemocratic. Partition was imposed through violence and the threat of further violence. This begs the question, was the violence during the last 30 – 40 years a reason to control the population or a response to control and legitimate grievances?
How can it be the elephant in the room?
Partition was accepted on both sides of the border in the referendum voted on by the people
Hi Jude & Francie D
Interesting topic this morning Jude, I must say darling I simply cannot wait to see what is going to happen next?
As Tony Blair once said, “the train is leaving” looks like I am not alone in my love for the Royals!
Take SF they definitely got egg on their little faces, when they took the path of ignoring the Queen. The next time they were presented with the opportunity it was a quick bout turn.
I am glad and full of happiness that the Southerners want the Queen present at the commemoration.
I do believe if the British had not executed the rebels, this conversation would not be taking place, they only gained popularity riding on the backs of sympathy.
Who knows what sort of Ireland it would be today, why I could maybe even have composed this letter in Irish.
They, along with the rest of Britain do not want this contagious, unhealthy disease which we all suffer from, and in this instance I am prepared to concede that the Prods suffer from a really bad dose of it.
Did you not see the love she had (Queen) for the country and it’s people, did she not herself suffer from a horrific tragedy of Lord Louis Mountbatton.
She set the bar, too high I am afraid, for some people. She put the past behind her. New beginnings.
Come on everybody embrace this part of history that is about to unfold.
And bring along the Pope as well and we will all get drunk and make merry.
And I bags the first dance with Paadykool!
Norma, you need to understand that a revision of the past is only one nationalist/republican terms. Jude and his bedfellows like to refer to the past when it suits them, i.e. 1916 when their heroes were the direct cause of the destruction of part of Dublin. They don’t want to talk about the many atrocities committed in the name of their cause, and are dismissive of anyone who hasn’t their views. HM the Queen, or Mrs Windsor as they like to call her, is in their minds a distraction, they would rather ‘high five’ with their chums, and exclude those who haven’t yet had their brains fully washed. History lessons in the future will not be as we know it, there will be a new sanitised version.
Whether Irish, English, Scottish, Welsh or Saudi Arabian, Monarchy is without doubt one of thE greatest contrived absurdities the tragic/Comic side of humanity has presented in history. Comic, because of its absolute irrationalism, total and garish,-a great carnival of dewy eyed imbeciles bowing energetically to a Cartel of Criminals who managed to thrive on the theft and Rapine of over half the Planet in Regards to old Brittania. Where I link ceremonial head of the Parachute Regiment in with tragedy,- he is afterall an amiable sort it can’t be denied by even the biggest detractors of Monarchical lunacy, is in the ceremonial Sword Dance he performed with his more powerful Kingly affiliates as a diplpmatic precursor to the signing of the biggest armsdeal Iin history for all sorts of Jets, drones, missiles and munitions a plenty from the absolutist Saudi throne…It may have escaped royal bowed heads as Kate whoever had just bought a new dress which clashed with the Corgies new basket or some oul nonsense…the Saudis are an absolutist despotic tyranny, who are Geo-political correct when it comes to the US and their well shampooed Corgie Britain. If there was a God on high, perhaps he be a little miffed at people bowing and dancing with depots….Charles Windsor may take council from long consultations with his plants, and when it comes to even a possible favourite Cactus he was given from the desert Iin subjugated Bahrain, he can at least look with a certain pride in his discourse with the plant as God or Evolution, or God through evolution bequeathed us vertabrae….in seems in his and his jolly kins company, humans forget their ability to use them effectively to stand upright consistently as equals with these backbones. Norma, William and Neill, I will not under some cultural outreach figleaf qualify my attack on this grim theatre of the absurd you seem to revere. I have more respect for one of Charles Windsors Cactii than I have for the many Toads who scramble for the awe of bathing in such illusory benificent patronage. What are backbones for after all?
this is probably the funniest thing I’ve read all week – keep up the good work Francie
Francie, maybe you should try using smaller words, or certainly those with less syllables as your command of the Queen’s English, or lack of, is causing some confusion. I do hope, by the way, that you bowed in respect to the bearded one when he was released from gaol last week.
Dear me Francie D
I think you may have overdosed on the contagious disease I spoke about.
How sad, what brings out such bitter hateful bile in a person?
The way I see it you are just the same as the OO a reflection in the mirror.
You do know you come from a small minority, your pals in the USA adore her, and to compare my beloved Sovereign to the Saudis.
Makes no difference to me what S—t comes out of your mouth, I adore her. I feel sorry for you actually, Billy no mates.
Tune in to RTE 1/2/3/4/5/6/7 they will all be covering it, and the star attraction will be HRH HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN.
I get high on her, my heart becomes so full of pride I think perhaps it will explode.
Hate eats you up, makes you all bitter and twisted.
Norma
Norma, you suprise me with the vehemence of your attack! Expletives too. Oh dear what has gotten into you? I assure you that I am not consumed by hate. Hate indeed would consume one, I am merely pointing out the story of the little Child who shout “Look, the Emperor isn’t wearing any Clothes”. Think about it Norma. That you would take such a realists analysis of lauded Monarchy to the very heart of your heart as you with injury complain, leaves me in no doubt you do not wish to hear the Child pointing out the Emperors great brain washing illusion. Turn down “Pomp And Circumstance” just a little and pick up a copy of Thomas Paine “The Rights Of Man” or “Common Sense”, Mary Wollstonecroft “A Vindication Of The Rights Of Women” a contempoary of Paines during the enlightenment is worth a scan too. If you wish to continue in the merry fanfare asserrively in this open forum, do expect to be challenged. It unbecomes you however Norma to revert to crude expletives in a personal attack.
Partition: it is a persistent destabilizer throughout the island. It has spawned the civil war, a corrupt government in the North, a dirty 30 year war and, and turned the northern economy, once the most innovative in Ireland, into a dependency. It has divided families and discoloured politics in the Republic. And despite the 1998 settlement you get the feeling things could unravel at any time in whole or in part.
The implications are huge but with this record, partition should be the preeminent issue.
Ha ha, greer, now I’ve heard it all, partition caused everything. In response to your points, firstly, the civil war was caused by the minority failing to accept the will of the majority, secondly, the corrupt NI government may not have been a government that had a fair system for all but corruption! let me see now, Haughey, Reynolds, Aherne, should I go on. And thirdly, 30 years of a dirty little war, correct, discrimination gave republicans the right to murder thousands?
You are right I should not have used that language. So Francie D I apologise. sorry.
I shall read the books you have recommended, but I cannot see me changing my love for this woman.
She has devoted her life to her work. 61 years, surely that counts for something Francie D. She has seen off Popes, Presidents, Prime Ministers. Shook more hands, attended functions, parliaments, state dinners etc etc than any. At 88 she has some staying power.
Let’s agree to disagree, I am, and always will be her loyal subject.
Norma
The British Army up to their old tricks I see…
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/may/13/icc-to-investigate-alleged-british-war-crimes-iraq
Apology accepted Norma. We will certainly agree to disagree on Monarchy for one thing. Though I am counfounded as to why you hold this dynasty so dearly, I find how you articulate your passion for them strangely charming. I mean no condescenion in saying this I assure you and hope you do not think it patronising. I enjoy your posts and your obvious willingness to reach into erstwhile conflicting ideas in an open, and engaging way….saying that, an OBE from Ma’am would be swiftly returned to Number 1 Pallmall…..Should I be so lucky to merit one?! With great pride I can relay to you Norma that thankfully I don’t lol
Jude, you really are a piece of work, and your protestations about how you do not wish to appear condescending fool no one. You are a prime example of what is wrong with this country, a total failure to embrace other peoples’ viewpoint. But I suppose you are like many, more than happy to live within the UK and collect the Queen’s shilling, what where we always told, ‘don’t bite the hand that feeds you’.
William
Could you possibly take a leaf out of Norma Wilson & An Ghobsmacht’s (both Unionists) book and debate the arguments which Jude puts forward and cease with these childish personal attacks on Jude.
Antonio, it’s impossible to have a debate when everyone with a non republican view is dismissed as being extremist, and the continuing anti British attitude is not just tiresome, it is now quite pathetic.
Everyone to their own, celebrate them if you will but you can keep the royal cabal away from me! Some funny photos of the beloved royals below:
http://chrisspivey.org/who-murdered-mountbatten/
wolfe tone
That is a very unpleasant site you linked to. Clearly you found it hilarious.
I would like to think Jude would take it down.
You’ve just showed yourself up for you are and the base level you are at. Chris Spivey is a horrible individual, and if that is the sort of material you read, I have to question your character. I’m sorry but I doubt if I will continue on this site, but I suppose that’s what you want.
obviously a load of conspiracy theory nonsense on that site but the most important question is this – Are those photographs of the former King dressed as a woman legit or photo-shopped or something
Antonio,
About as important as Roger Casement’s sexuality I suppose, but it really is unimportant. Unless of course one has problems with cross dressing Royals or gay Republicans or even cross dressing Republicans and gay Royals. Maybe the photographs were something!!!
A Pretzellogic but you assume because I am curious that I am homophobic on some level which is not the case at all. Though as I saw photographs of a cross-dressing Royal for the first time ever this would tell me that they have been hidden from public view due to a homophobia of sorts which in itself is interesting.
My comment was meant in jest which sometimes does not come across online
Maybe you and your chums are prepared to gloss over the gay allegations, but I suppose you think its acceptable the allegations that members of the Royal Family are paedophiles, this really is a base site with many unpleasant entries.
William
You suppose wrong that I think it is acceptable to accuse people of paedophilia without any evidence which is why I have repeatedly referred to the website as ‘full of conspiracy theories’. So with that in mind I am not sure why you say I find it acceptable.
I wouldn’t worry about it all anybody could see the website is the ramblings of a deranged man so why worry about it
Antonio, apologies but i was referring to wolfetone
William fay
I never heard of this spivey character or his site until very recently. Alas what he said is conjecture but the connection to nazism by the beloved royals should be taught more in our schools don’t you think? Alas William I am sure you know more about this site thanks to the availability of sources at your disposal. And let’s not have censorship as its a bit fascist ; )
And yes I did find the photos hilarious
wolfe tone
It does you no credit to link to a site that revels in the detail of the death of another human being. Pathetic really.
Jude has been quick to chastise lately for name-calling of the schoolyard variety so it is disappointing that he is ignoring this soul-sapping stuff you have treated us to.
giordanobruno
Where have you been living? Take a look around you. The great and the good whoop with delight at other peoples demise. I am sorry if this has been ‘soul-sapping’ for you but its a big bad world out there. I couldnt give two hoots about lord battenberg or the royals as i know they dont give a damn about me and mine, or yours for that matter.
wolfe tone
If that is the level you want to live at well that is up to you.
Forgive me if I aspire to a little more than glorying in the death of others.
giordanobruno
I was not revelling in the death of an individual although battenderg doesnt concern me. However when people revel and throw dirt at republicanism i take offence. I especially take offence when these dirt throwers use the royals as a weapon to pontificate to republicans. These usual people cry and claim republicans have politicised the irish language etc in their defence at demeaning that said language. Although they dont realise or care that they use the royals,poppy days etc to make their point or reinforce their beliefs. I was just bursting their bubble a little. If you cant take it you shouldnt give it.
wolfe tone
Why not try intelligent argument to burst their bubble instead of linking to such sad rubbish. Is that what republicanism is about for you?
Anyway I’m not really interested in your justification,; I simply don’t understand why Jude has turned a blind eye to it. I suspect a link to a site denigrating the hunger strikers, for example, would not be tolerated.
So wolfe you think allegations that there are members of the Royal Family who are paedophiles is acceptable? The stories in relation to the disgraced king being linked to Nazism is nothing new, just like the many republicans who were confirmed Nazis in the 1930s, but maybe I shouldn’t bring that up, as I’m sure that’s a part of history that you care not to remember. Or perhaps you do look at that fondly, as after all de Valera lowered the flag on the death of Hitler.
Well the nazi tale isnt told to the kids at school is it william? We wouldnt want to confuse our subjects now would we. Although to be fair the ‘murder machine’ isnt shy about letting the plebs know the ‘connection’ between the nazis and republicanism.
And as you have asked, i do think the paedophile allegations against the royals should be investigated as Her Maj handed them plenty of awards for their endeavours. Knowing what we know now i find it incredible that mi5 allowed the royals to honour these skanks without checking out their background? Or maybe they knew perfectly well their background???
The condemnation hurled at gerry adams[and rightly so] over the Liam Adams affair pale in comparison to the amount of paedophiles the royals have entertained.
Being a royal in the 21st century is a much different experience to that of a queen, king or princess of a century ago.The lifestyle isn’t now the unknown romantic ,sultry dream that the untutored public might then have had of that fairy tale state.
Being born into such a family is to be born as a caged bird whose life path is already mapped.The family really has no significant power .It may be adored by a lot of people for reasons of perceived glamour, but there is now an “ordinariness” being cultivated to further bond the public in a cult of idolatry to replace the once “God ordained” shtick that formerly pertained.
The queen as a young woman would have been loved every bit as much for her youthful beauty as she was for her royal status.The same thing happened with Lady Di and is now happening with the new Kate… I don’t think it would have worked with the modern public so well had they not been so photogenic.The public can be very fickle and is currently obsessed with the mundane photoshopped beauty of the Hello magazine or the plastic surgery operation.Certainly no one talks about their intellectual abilities.It’s all about their style, what they are wearing and their clothes.There’s no mention of much else.
We ask the question, how can a modern thinking person idolise these strange trapped birds whose only talent appears to be the ability to read out a little speech someone has written for them.People enjoy fantasy and fairy tales I suppose but I find it no more moral than keeping a wild nightingale in a cage….even though that cage might be ostentatiously gilded.
I feel much the same about keeping polar bears in zoos.
Oh Paddykool,
I really doo love you! You have such a way with words.
This does not begin to explain to you’s all my feelings, really I am talking here about the Queen. Elizabeth 2nd
I will try to start at the beginning nature or nurture, as far back as I can remember when there only was BBC 1, every night when the program ended, my dearly missed Father would stand to attention for THE QUEEN.
Back then when she was young and beautiful, when she would ride side saddle so majestically on her horse, I was totally in awe of this woman.
We had to watch trooping of the colour, Edinburgh Tattoo, changing of the guards etc.
Believe me, I fear no one, if I was sitting down the Falls in the Felons club, or the Foresters, or some where like that I would get up and stand for the Queen. ( not that I have been to any of these places).
Can’t we just accept we like different things,
I remember going to a wake in Twinbrook, my husbands old uncle had died, I found it fascinating, covering up mirrors, taking clocks away, sitting up all night with the dead body.
I remember one old lady saying, never let me be buried in a Protestant grave yard for I would not want to be near them, alive or dead. Out of respect to the widow, I bit the bullet.
Today we are the best of friends.
In Africa I befriended an old lady, with one leg, who was a diabetic, she received holy communion at home. In walked this lady who was Irish, she had left Cork 40 years ago, and she started to perform her ritual, when she asked me “are you of the faith”,
any children, “are they of the faith”, my dear old friend who has long since died, was mortified that I had told little white fibs. But the nun went away happy, and no harm was done.
When my Queen passes away, I will surely be broken hearted, I don’t think any one will replace her, so there you have it.
The gift of the blarney or what.
It’s my big mans birthday today 61, what a bit of gear, there was no way any catholic girl was going to get her hands on him, he is on an even power with the Queen.
Norma
William,
I have not looked at the site, I do not want anything in my minds eye corrupted?
One can only imagine, a bit like these people who down load images of children being tortured, sexual deviants.
And if I (remember I have not looked) was to do this with say THE POPE, how would they feel.
As you said another level, and this is supposed to be a civilised society, and they wonder why the NORTH is being ignored.
More is the pity?
Norma
This particular site (which is full of conspiracy theory drivel) is run by an Englishman. And a photograph of that King that abdicated in a dress is not even remotely like people downloading images of children being tortured
goodnight Norma you wee geg
giordanobruno
get over yourself. If gerry adams was pictured in a dress i am sure there would be plenty on here mocking it. Thats the problem with republicanism, they tend to fight fair against ruthless enemies. Its a weakness they need to address. The ‘moderate’ type unionists on here dont fool me. They will turn a blind eye if republicanism is under attack from any quarter no matter how low the attack is. Its a bit like the troubles when their folk were terrorising the entire catholic community, they said very little. Again a bit like the holycross primary school disgrace-how people could sit there and say nothing while their berthren threw urine and pipebombs at kids is beyond me. If republicans had have done that i wouldve been furious and would have risked their wrath by challenging them to stop. Alas thankfully republicans would never sunk that low. So forgive me if i refuse to take lectures from youself on morality.
wolf you don’t fool me at all with your constant anti-unionist rhetoric. “Republicans tend to fight fair against a ruthless enemy”, you really are taking the proverbial. You class fighting fair putting bombs under family cars, no warning bombs in towns, blowing up a Remembrance Day parade and attempting to blow up a childrens’ parade, shooting people in the back, etc, and this is your idea of fairness. Holy Cross was so, so wrong but don’t dare tell me how fair republicans were, you are deluded, brainwashed or simply just so bitter you can’t see things from a rational viewpoint.
William you dont fool me full stop. The bitternness is hanging out of you. Sadly i think this bitterness originates from the expectation by the british community that republicans would be dragged forward in ‘sackcloth and ashes’ show of repentance. William you need to be rational and realise that it wont matter even if Gerry adams or martin mcguinness doffs their cap and apologises to ‘her maj’ in an open show of repentance, republicans will always believe they were absolutely within their rights to confront a foreign occuppier. The sooner you realise that the quicker we can move on.
wolfie, thanks for the scolding, accuse me of whatever suits, I know where I stand, and I will not make apologies for terrorists, no matter were they come from, normalise it all you want.
By the way, wolfie, you didn’t respond to my retort on the issue of the ‘fair’ campaign of terrorism by republicans.
William fay
The only terrorism i experienced was by the british army,RUC and british militia and thats it in a nutshell william. However in response to your criticism of republican violence i would ask you why the IRA gave any warnings at all to the bombs they placed? What was the logic there? To accept your narrative, then the IRA set out to kill people full stop??? Why go to the bother of placing bombs in London and then warning your ‘targets’ before it went off? It doesnt make sense if according to your wisdom republicans main aim was to kill?
And should we discuss the dublin/monaghan bombings or indeed the ‘false flag’ attacks that we only know about ie mcgurks bar, William? Because there really was no warning given there william as i am sure your ‘research’ would tell you. Even the Omagh bomb has the british ‘dirty tricks’ fingerprints all over it. Three security agencies knew that bomb was in the making and yet they let it through, and not only let it through but deliberately sent the people in that direction. Why did these agencies allow this happen? To discredit republicanism simple as that.
As you can see William the british really are the masters at deliberately killing and getting others to do it for them. Hats off to them, but they must not brag as they have had plenty of experience at developing terrorist techniques for years. You see William it almost looks like its in their culture.
wolfe, we are aware what the loyalists did, and you keep repeating it. But you are ignoring what the IRA did, and you certainly make it clear your views. No warning bombs that killed and maimed men, women and children was acceptable to you. It’s not a question of my version of a narrative, that’s what they did. Check the statistics again, they don’t tell lies, check the number of Catholics murdered by the IRA, certainly a lot more than the security forces. What was the bomb in Warrington all about, the bomb in Tullyhommon, it was meant to kill civilian people of all ages in order to terrorise.
william fay
‘we are aware what loyalists did’. Who is we? You deliberately side step my point in ignoring the ‘honest’ british hand in these atrocities. But alas its glaringly obvious what your angle is.
You know and i know that the statistics dont tell all the truth; the truth of how many deaths were guided by the hand of FRU/MRF and the other shadowy terrorist groups inside the british army. The statistics wont tell you the british decided to bomb dublin/monaghan because they needed to send a clear threat to the free state authorities not to interfere.
All deaths are regrettable during the conflict especially innocent non combatants whether they are catholic/protestant or whatever. Alas the inexcusable fact is they would never have happened if the british hadnt decided to tear up the morality rule book and ignore the democratic will of all the people of ireland. By hook or by crook they decided to partition this island. Again william its almost looks like its in their culture and even your culture? They tore up the morality rule book in every part of the north and they strive to hide that fact behind your ‘statistics’. Tom Barry once said, when he was fighting that earlier british militia, the black and tans,-‘the british went down into the abyss and down we had to go after them’. Thats what war does i am afraid to say. So it has to be said the IRA despite the attempts by the british to provoke them, showed remarkable restraint, by not following the brits into the abyss. The problem we have now is the british want to pretend they were never in the abyss. The problem we have now william, a chara, is the british dont want to acknowledge they own the copyright.
wolfe, the ‘we’ is you and I, and everyone else. Now let’s deal with the conspiracies, why don’t ‘we’ complain about every murder and get them all investigated again. You are blinded by bitterness and absolutely everything you say drips with anti British rhetoric. The British were wrong in many things they did, but do you not accept they were dealing with a deadly terrorist organisation, the IRA, who had absolutely no moralities. I could list hundreds upon hundreds of cruel, cruel murders they were culpable of.
Now if it’s a history of Ireland you want, I’m your man. How far back do you want to go, but as a republican, I know you dictate those terms as and when it suits you. On one hand republicanism wants society to move on, forget about the past, but only as it suits them.
I’m not sure what books you’ve been reading but please advise me of the quality literary piece that states that the British bombed Dublin and Monaghan, or is that another piece of history rewritten. To finish, please, please show me evidence of the restraint the IRA showed, because, maybe I’m getting this wrong but I can find no evidence of it.
Spoken like a true trooper william fay. When the british release the files on all their terror operations here in ireland you will indeed find all ‘quality literary piece’ you ask for. Alas we wont hold our breath as has been well proven the british regime are experts at denying,lying,procrastinating and disinformation. These ‘honest brokers’ will do anything to cover up the abyss they owned in ireland. And they have no problem tying up loose ends to cover their terrorism as the pat finucane case showed-stobie etc revealed too much and had to be silenced for example. I am sure you know that anyway.
If its history you want, we dont have to go back too far to show the british contiued to export their terrorism not only here in ireland but also in afghanistan,iraq,libya,syria etc. When RUC terrorists are exported to afghanistan then i fear for the afghan people as they will soon learn how low these ‘experts’ will go to promote the british regimes agenda.
These countries will already know how these ‘honest brokers’ foment sectarianism to achieve their objectives. Its no surprise to see countries that initially were resisting a foreign occupier turn in on themselves and end up fighting each other on a sectarian battle line. The british will even get the ball rolling and fire the first ‘sectarian’ attacks and once it starts they will ensure it continues as the two SAS terrorists caught in Basra in 2005 demonstrates. These 2 criminals were posing as locals. armed to the teeth, went around killing local people from different religions in their task of engineering anger the sectarian card. Of course you will deny this account, but that is norm for any london regime supporter.
As i have said before, you see william, its almost their culture. The culture of divide and conquer to achieve your objectives. The IRA were a result of London governments actions in Ireland. The deaths in Ireland were tragic but that blame lies in the actions of a british regime attempting to own ireland. If the IRA had exported their violence to iraq,palestine,syria,libya etc just to promote their culture i would be ashamed. If the IRA had engineered the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people just to promote their selfish hegemony, i would be ashamed of them. Dress it up anyway you want william but deep down you know its true. But unfortunately in your line of ‘research’ it doesnt pay you to take that line.
Whenever i have been abroad i quickly learned that it was important to reveal to the locals that i was irish because much to my chagrin they assumed i was english due to my appearance and the language i spoke[i am working to change that]. The dirty looks and awkward silences vanished immediately once i said i was irish. Handshakes,pats on the back and smiles were instantly offered and often that was followed by a ‘xxxx the english’ comment! That was an eye opener for me and a sound endorsement of how much animosity people have for perfidious albion in other countries. If i was british i would be bitter at this treatment too william but roaring and shouting wont make people like you, doing honorable deeds for honorable reasons might.
wolf,
“If the IRA had exported their violence to iraq,palestine,syria,libya etc just to promote their culture i would be ashamed. If the IRA had engineered the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people just to promote their selfish hegemony, i would be ashamed of them.”
Can I ask you what the IRA were doing in Colombia, Spain, Libya, Lebanon, and the other countries they ‘visited’ over the years, perhaps doing a bit of bird watching. Surely they weren’t exporting their brand of terrorism, because I wouldn’t want you ashamed. It is remarkable that their fellow purveyors of death started to use the same tactics as the provies. Keep the rhetoric up and eventually you will start to believe it.
William fay
I will take your word for it where the IRA went as the ‘intel’ you have is better than anything i have. When you take your blinkers off hows about accessing the ‘intel’ into the points i have raised about british state terrorism in ireland and other countries? Are you allowed to comment on that or is it still policy to deny and dismiss? In the interests of fairness you see, as although you strive to appear as a moderate decent person on this forum, it is unfortunately for you coming across as the atypical british person who really believes that britain is ‘great’.
Remember william if you treat people nicely they will be nice back at you. Respect people and they will give you their respect back. If the british realised that a long time ago then perhaps, apart from the colonised countries, people would like them much more. Perhaps they could have taken a leaf out of the Irish Republican book-they volunteered to fight a just war, the british just paid people to fight any war. Nobody likes a mercenary, people respect a volunteer.
Ok wolf, because you don’t agree with what I say, that now makes me one of these Brit loving colonialist. You can think and believe what you want of me, I am a honest, decent person who does not believe in criminality from wherever it may come.
You have access to the same ‘Intel’ as I have, it’s called the Internet, quality journals and the library, maybe spend a bit of time reading material from fair minded authors, rather than allowing yourself to be consumed by hatred.
Self praise is no praise william and you certainly are not honest as demonstrated by your habitual dodging of the topic of british state terrorism. Rather than being ‘consumed by hatred’ as you allude to, i would say i have a very deep distrust of anything the british say and do. Can you blame me? And although you may never understand, i view this distrust as a healthy thing rather than a hindrance.
Just one question william, do you believe the british state deliberately carried out acts of terrorism during the troubles?
In answer to your question, an unequivocal yes. But the difference between the state and the IRA is the fact that there has been and will be further inquiries into the actions of the state. I’m all for a truth and justice type scenario, the problem with that is there will be truth coming from one side only, and as the government kept records, they can be condemned by them. The IRA obviously kept no records and will not conform, I just can’t really see certain leaders of Sinn Fein admitting to being mass murderers.