A picture is worth a thousand words, especially if it puts the spotlight on the distant past rather than today (or yesterday). As you can see, the Irish Times’s English cartoonist, Martyn Turner, lost no time about putting the boot into Sinn Féin on the first day of the election campaign.
The thing was, the economic illiterates had somehow managed to get the sums right about the ‘fiscal space’, unlike most of the other parties, so clearly there was no point in attacking them on those grounds. So why not get after Gerry about being in the IRA? That should do it – take people’s minds of the successful start to the Sinn Féin electoral campaign.
But never let it be said that the Irish Times cartoonist is shameless. If you look at the small print in the bottom right-hand corner, you’ll see that Mr Turner realizes he’s attacking Gerry on this IRA thing for the umpteenth time, so he does his best to make an equivalence between what Gerry and Sinn Féin have said about the ‘fiscal space’ and what Gerry has said about being in the IRA.
It’s the old ‘If he lies about IRA membership, how can we trust him to tell the truth about anything?’ routine. So although Gerry and Co are, by common consent, spot-on in their fiscal space calculations, by reminding readers of Gerry and the IRA, a nice little cloud is let settle over the Sinn Féin party’s fiscal sums. Between Martyn and Miriam Lord, who has a jolly old time going on about the fact that the Shinners had their press conference in the Royal Irish Academy (RIA – geddit?), the Irish Times have made it clear which electoral horse they’re hoping to hobble.
Jude.Gerry.is.a.Great.man.#votesf.
He.is.indeed.Jim.I.met.him.twice.and.he.is.a.decent.guy.
If a party has such a gruesome past as Sinn Fein (and one they continue to try to justify), what can they expect other than for people to point it out?
MT – there are literally dozens of SF candidates who weren’t over five years old when the ceasefire happened
Unlike SF’s leadership though Jude.
Unfortunately for them too many of their leaders are a constant reminder of a time they would probably like to quietly consign to the history books.
It most be deeply frustrating for the next generation is SF to see this kind of thing coming up over and over again. 30 years is enough Gerry!
I remember the 1950s, gio. That was 30 years on from the 1920s. Yet I don’t remember people or the media finger-pointing politicians like Dev or Frank Aitken or a host of others who’d been involved in violence at least as severe as that which we experienced. On the contrary: those men were considered heroes who’d help deliver independence for most of Ireland. Isn’t it time the media gave the past a rest and started looking at present policies for the future. By his own confession, even Martyn Turner is beginning to feel a bit embarrassed at the same old same old …
Ah poor SF getting mauled i bet many of their victims would have wished to get off so lightly still its always nice that you are defending poor little Sf from the cruel media.I bet SF wish all the media was as uncritical and caring as you.
“I remember the 1950s, gio. That was 30 years on from the 1920s. Yet I don’t remember people or the media finger-pointing politicians like Dev or Frank Aitken or a host of others who’d been involved in violence at least as severe as that which we experienced. On the contrary: those men were considered heroes who’d help deliver independence for most of Ireland. Isn’t it time the media gave the past a rest and started looking at present policies for the future. By his own confession, even Martyn Turner is beginning to feel a bit embarrassed at the same old same old …”
Well that’s just it. The Provisional IRA *aren’t* considered heroes in the South. They’re considered by most to have been monsters.
They chose to join a party that continues to justify and legitimise and glorify Provisional IRA terror, so they can hardly complain.
So what? In some ways that makes it worse. They should be distancing themselves from the gruesome past not attaching themselves to it, justifying it and standing by a leader mixed up in the worst of it, and a paedophile protector to boot.
“They should be distancing themselves from the gruesome past not attaching themselves to it, justifying it and standing by a leader mixed up in the worst of it, and a paedophile protector to boot”
We should be more concerned with the gruesome present in relation to continuing the running of paid state agents within minnow paramilitary groups allowing them to persist and shocking terrorism cover up through the lame excuse of national security.
The British have also facilitated the greatest cover up of paedophilia ever, when they missed documents in England on kincora from kids shopped over to England for abuse by state officials including thatchers cabinet members so it went right to the top. The very reason is has been excluded from the English authority on child abuse from such care homes as they would have the teeth to compel evidence which the don’t want to see the light of day.
Britain’s presence in Ireland has been nothing but shameful and more needs to be done to have these cover ups lifted and the truth made public.
I mean when they missed destroying documents linking kincora that were discovered in the English inquiry. The problem with inquiries is they keep finding evidence that has slipped through the cracks which makes subsequent cover up attempts by the british all the more disgusting and insulting.
“We should be more concerned with the gruesome present in relation to continuing the running of paid state agents within minnow paramilitary groups allowing them to persist and shocking terrorism cover up through the lame excuse of national security.”
But nobody running state agents in NI is standing for election in the South.
“The British have also facilitated the greatest cover up of paedophilia ever, when they missed documents in England on kincora from kids shopped over to England for abuse by state officials including thatchers cabinet members so it went right to the top. The very reason is has been excluded from the English authority on child abuse from such care homes as they would have the teeth to compel evidence which the don’t want to see the light of day.”
Again nobody standing for the Dail is implicated in Kincora. If they were I’m sure the Irish Times would be making an issue of it.
“But nobody running state agents in NI is standing for election in the South. ”
Enda Kenny in his 5 years as taoiseach has done absolutely nothing while theresa villiers during his watch has moved the Kincora investigation from the english body who discovered the link who would have the legal clout to release all documents to a safer body in the north who does not.
The running of british state agents crosses the border, Fine Gaels deals with the tories have allowed the same english companies used by MI5 to operate in the south bringing them in to bug gardai stations and setup mobile phone surveillance in Dublin which Fine Gael party members have used.
Not only was a Gardai chief commissioner more or less got rid off in unusual circumstances, but the current chief commissioner was made change their statement to concur with british security statements that the IRA were running Sinn Fein which she said was not the case in the south before changing it to agree with the british assessment after political persuasion.
As I said, I am not as interested in the past if we are going to ignore what is going on in the present. It very much involves Fine Gael so I disagree with you there.
The UUP and DUP have a pretty “gruesome” past, MT but yet their past isn’t mentioned at all, not during election time or any other time by the media. They even have a statue of a terrorist gun runner and a man who threatened treason to the British crown up at Stormont (the irony…) and have a town named after Viscount Craigavon, a leader of the terrorist UVF. Of course the DUP was founded by a fundamentalist protestant preacher, the protestant version of a Taliban Imam. The UUP headed a government that Gusty Spence said paid him to start a sectarian war. I could go on.
Its strange how the media don’t bring up their gruesome past…..
Ryan you do go on and on.
I wonder if you enlighten us about the private sectarian armies that Trimble, West, Empey, Nesbitt, Molyneaux, Brookborough, Andrews,Elliot commanded and the gruesome actions they carried out?
Would be interesting to see if they covered up for rapists and pedophiles.
No problem Neill, the Unionists had sectarian organisations like the RUC and UDR and before that the B-Specials, which the Orange Order actively encouraged Protestants to join en mass and which were filled to the brim with UVF/UDA members. Even the SDLP and Seamus Mallon (certainly no fan of the PIRA) said they were the Unionist parties paramilitaries.
“Would be interesting to see if they covered up for rapists and pedophiles”
Well I certainly couldn’t accuse any individual you named of doing that Neill but I’m sure you could accuse certain SF members but conveniently forget to mention individuals connected to SF were trialled in a court of law and acquitted but we all know you aren’t worried about what’s factual and what’s not Neill. The facts tend not to favour your agenda.
On the other hand there has been Orange Order members who literally ran a Protestant orphanage as a paedophile brothel, Kincorra, for other Orange Order members and also allegedly UUP, DUP, Westminster politicians and even British Royalty. Of course we already know there was a paedophile ring at Westminster Neill (but you like to ignore that, SF is much more interesting) and accusations they murdered children. There’s footage on youtube of Ian Paisley Snr being accused by a woman of ignoring accusations of what was going on at Kincorra. And most recently there has been accusations against Prince Andrew of having sexual intercourse with a minor. But no, you don’t like those facts mentioned, eh Neill? Hush, Hush, move along, nothing to see here!
Here you go Neill:
“The UUP and DUP have a pretty “gruesome” past, MT but yet their past isn’t mentioned at all, not during election time or any other time by the media. ”
Er, the UUP and DUP aren’t seeking election to the Dail! (And don’t have a gruesome past like PSF does.)
Where did I say the UUP/DUP are seeking election to the Dail, MT? So its OK to have a gruesome past in the North but not in the South? lol
DUP/UUP don’t have a gruesome past like SF have? The facts say different MT, don’t be silly now, don’t go down the road Neill sprints down, it doesn’t look good! The last thing we need on this blog is two hypocritical, ignorant Unionist revisionists on this blog! Neill already does a good enough job, we don’t need another!
“Where did I say the UUP/DUP are seeking election to the Dail, MT?”
You didn’t. But the cartoon is about the Dail election, so why would the Irish Times cartoonist include the DUP and UUP?
“So its OK to have a gruesome past in the North but not in the South? lol”
Of course not. Although you probably disagree.
“DUP/UUP don’t have a gruesome past like SF have?”
Correct.
“The facts say different MT, don’t be silly now, don’t go down the road Neill sprints down, it doesn’t look good! The last thing we need on this blog is two hypocritical, ignorant Unionist revisionists on this blog! Neill already does a good enough job, we don’t need another!”
What facts? How many people did the DUP or UUP murder? How many bombs did they plant? How many people did they exile? How many punishment beatings did they carry out? How many banks did they rob?
“What facts? How many people did the DUP or UUP murder? How many bombs did they plant? How many people did they exile? How many punishment beatings did they carry out? How many banks did they rob?”
No less than Sinn Fein.
It was Paisley started the first paramilitary activity in the 60s and kick started the troubles, it was the UUP who were aligned with the UVF before the British army came in and took over the management of loyalist paramilitaries.
Just because unionism denies all of its past and republicans have integrity and aren’t ashamed of their past in conflict started by unionism.
It is unionism lives with shame and lies through its teeth to deny its past.
The more unionism denies its past, the more we should insist it comes clean along with the British state.
“It was Paisley started the first paramilitary activity in the 60s and kick started the troubles, it was the UUP who were aligned with the UVF before the British army came in and took over the management of loyalist paramilitaries.”
The DUP wasn’t formed until 1971 and the UUP wasn’t aligned with the UVF.
“The DUP wasn’t formed until 1971 and the UUP wasn’t aligned with the UVF.”
Is it any wonder you think republicans caused all the trouble, you don’t even know your own history.
I do. It’s you who does know history.
Remember you thought the troops were deployed on the streets because of the UVF bombing of utilities? LOL
“I do. It’s you who does know history.
Remember you thought the troops were deployed on the streets because of the UVF bombing of utilities? LOL”
Then you would know Paisley formed UPA and other paramilitary groups long before he created the DUP and that his role in starting the conflict was prior to the PIRA or the DUPs existence.
Troops were brought over at the request of the UUP who were linked to the UVF who carried out bomb attacks which were thought to be the work of the IRA at the time the request to bring troops over were made.
The Kingsmill Massacre was carried out to bring over the SAS, I see no reason why the UVF were not used by unionist parties prior to May 1969 to bring over british troops. In fact, it would make total sense as to why unionism used loyalist people to get involved in Para militarism and then when the British army were here turn their backs in public at least on them.
Will unionism ever acknowledge their role in the conflict?
Regardless, I don’t think we should let unionism forget its role until it does and in fact more scrutiny needs to be levied at the british and unionist acts in our past which they have got away with scott free to date which is wrong and should not be tolerated.
“Then you would know Paisley formed UPA and other paramilitary groups long before he created the DUP”
But you said the DUP murdered people.
“Troops were brought over at the request of the UUP who were linked to the UVF who carried out bomb attacks which were thought to be the work of the IRA at the time the request to bring troops over were made.”
The UUP wasn’t linked to the UVF. And the UUP didn’t ask for troops to be brought over in response of UVF bombs.
“The Kingsmill Massacre was carried out to bring over the SAS,”
Eh?
“I see no reason why the UVF were not used by unionist parties prior to May 1969 to bring over british troops.”
Eh?
“In fact, it would make total sense as to why unionism used loyalist people to get involved in Para militarism and then when the British army were here turn their backs in public at least on them.”
What?? I think you have a screw loose.
“The facts say different MT, don’t be silly now, don’t go down the road Neill sprints down, it doesn’t look good! The last thing we need on this blog is two hypocritical, ignorant Unionist revisionists on this blog! Neill already does a good enough job, we don’t need another!”
Oh MT takes it to a new level.
He believes Ireland was never a country of its own put always only part of the UK country similar to a state in the US I suppose, which is fine as his opinion but he also posted his opinion that he believes in 1918, the election result was the minority (of the UK as a whole) in the south of Ireland who wanted the border in the UK and not unionists who wanted the border, therefore it was the south established the 6 county border and divided Ireland.
He believes self determination means any community of people can opt out and create a new state of their own even against the overall result of the electoral area.
i.e. if a democratic vote goes against you, you split and create a new entity out of a sub section of the results rather than abide by the overall result. Scotland could quite easily have split over devolution I guess, but would that have been democratic?
Republicans seeking unification he sees as imperialism even though the GFA recognises Ireland is one country and facilitates unification.
Never heard anyone accusing republicans of being imperialist before, only in MT land.
He has a very unique point of view if pressed, neill is reasonable in comparison.
MT, you and I know that the media, North and South go on about Sinn Fein and connecting them to the IRA’s past.
I pointed out the media, both North and South, don’t do the same with the DUP and UUP given their gruesome past, of course you choose to have amnesia when it comes to those facts.
How many people did the DUP/UUP murder? I don’t know MT, its hard to judge how many UVF/UDA men, inspired by Ian Paisleys anti-Catholic rants (which they themselves said inspired them to carry out sectarian murders) caused the murder of numerous Catholic civilians. Who knows how many DUP founded “Ulster Resistance” weapons imported from abroad went on to murder innocent Catholics and ended up in the hands of the UDA/UVF.
When it comes to the UUP they were in Government here when Gusty Spence said he was paid by the Unionist Government to start a “sectarian war”. Of course the whole cause of the troubles was Unionism, led by the UUP, leading a sectarian and discriminatory statelet against normal Catholics, so its a fair argument to say the UUP is the cause of ALL the deaths here. If you start something then obviously you can be charged with the blame of what follows.
How many people did they exile MT? you should contact the Irish Government and get the figures, I think over 3000 Catholic families had to flee across the border to Irish Govt refugee camps because of RUC/B Special lead Unionist mobs were burning their homes down.
You and others might have occasional amnesia MT, but the rest of us don’t and the facts don’t change regardless of Unionist revisionism and nonsense.
“MT, you and I know that the media, North and South go on about Sinn Fein and connecting them to the IRA’s past.”
Much less so in the North, but SF is the only party connected to terror gangs and which still seeks to legitimise and glorify those gangs, so what would you expect. Ireland is no different to any other country and the press will always point these things out. SF get a an easy ride given what they’ve been guilty of in the recent past.
“I pointed out the media, both North and South, don’t do the same with the DUP and UUP given their gruesome past, of course you choose to have amnesia when it comes to those facts.”
But the DUP and UUP don’t have a gruesome past.
“How many people did the DUP/UUP murder? I don’t know MT, its hard to judge how many UVF/UDA men, inspired by Ian Paisleys anti-Catholic rants (which they themselves said inspired them to carry out sectarian murders) caused the murder of numerous Catholic civilians. Who knows how many DUP founded “Ulster Resistance” weapons imported from abroad went on to murder innocent Catholics and ended up in the hands of the UDA/UVF.”
That’s none, then. Speculation, sophistry and clutching at straws is all you have to go on. If any evidence did come to light of the UUP and DUP having been involved in murder, then that’s when the press would cover it.
“When it comes to the UUP they were in Government here when Gusty Spence said he was paid by the Unionist Government to start a “sectarian war”.”
Well, if sectarian murderer Spence said it, it must be true. Terence O’Neill was a murderer: that’s a really.plausible argument! Of course the reality is that under the Unionist government Spence’s gang was quickly brought to justice by the RUC.
“Of course the whole cause of the troubles was Unionism, led by the UUP, leading a sectarian and discriminatory statelet against normal Catholics, so its a fair argument to say the UUP is the cause of ALL the deaths here. If you start something then obviously you can be charged with the blame of what follows.”
Wild and stupid sophistry. Discrimination doesn’t justify murdering people. Especially when the civil rights demands had been met before most of the murders took place.
“How many people did they exile MT? you should contact the Irish Government and get the figures, I think over 3000 Catholic families had to flee across the border to Irish Govt refugee camps because of RUC/B Special lead Unionist mobs were burning their homes down.”
So the UUP and DUP didn’t exile anyone, then?
I actually thought Jessica that MT would’ve had a bit of common sense compared to Neill but obviously not.
If he believes Ireland was always part of the UK that’s pretty hard to argue because Ireland existed over 2000 years before the UK even existed lol I suppose its comparable to Ruth Pattersons argument that St Patrick was a Protestant Brit lmao St Patrick, who was definitely ethnically Roman (his father was Roman, born and bred) lived 1000 years before Protestantism existed but somehow Unionism has this warped mind set that says St Patrick was a British Protestant. It really all stems from Anti-Catholicism on their part, they think anyone who is Christian but not Catholic must be a “Protestant”, even though there was different Christian churches long before Martin Luther existed and obviously none of them practiced what Luther preached or any other founder of Protestantism. St Patrick was most likely a follower of the Pope, he is even a Saint in the Catholic Church but Unionists turn a blind eye to that fact. I’m just waiting for them to claim he was an Orange man and paraded at Drumcree. The scary thing is I actually wouldn’t put It pass them to claim that……
Well his argument that the South created the border is easily disproved too because most Unionists wanted ulster (well the Protestant majority counties of it) to remain in the UK and excluded from Irish Home Rule, hence partition. Edward Carson on the other hand wanted democracy obstructed and all of Ireland kept within the UK. It was Irish Republicans that wanted all of Ireland free of British rule and opposed the border.
Well if he believes communities can have self determination then by his own logic Jessica, 4 out of the 6 counties could vote to join the ROI tomorrow and take with us Belfast (situated between Antrim and Down).
Unionists like MT and Neill, pick and choose what suits them Jessica, they aren’t democrats, their ideology, beliefs and actions clearly show that.
“If he believes Ireland was always part of the UK …”
I dont believe Ireland was always part of the UK.
“Well his argument that the South created the border is easily disproved too because most Unionists wanted ulster (well the Protestant majority counties of it) to remain in the UK and excluded from Irish Home Rule, hence partition. ”
You misunderstand. Nationalists wanted to partition the British Isles. Unionists wanted to keep them together. There’d be no border if nationalists hadn’t wanted to break away.
“Well if he believes communities can have self determination then by his own logic Jessica, 4 out of the 6 counties could vote to join the ROI tomorrow and take with us Belfast (situated between Antrim and Down).”
Except the people living in those places don’t want repartition. Bit of a problem there …
“Unionists like MT and Neill, pick and choose what suits them Jessica, they aren’t democrats, their ideology, beliefs and actions clearly show that.”
I don’t. On the contrary, my views are logical and consistent. Jessica simply applies her beliefs depending on whether or not she likes the people concerned. So, for example, she thinks it’s OK for nationalists to have self-determination but not unionists.
“You misunderstand. Nationalists wanted to partition the British Isles. Unionists wanted to keep them together. There’d be no border if nationalists hadn’t wanted to break away.”
Yes, along the Irish sea, not within Ireland where the majority voted for independence in 1918.
Outrage however is manifested if hints appear that other parties have “gruesome pasts”
Pot – kettle – black; Sauce – goose – gander; Mote – beam – eye –
All come to mind together with memories of said “gruesome deeds”
Your comment was really helpful, MJ
I’m afraid I don’t understand your point.
How astonishingly petty and irrelevant for a once great newspaper.
The spotlight on the distant past illuminates the root cause of the conflict in Ireland. Those who put the boot into Mr Adams are also kicking the thousands of people, who have and who will vote for Mr Adams and his party in every county in Ireland. Many in the media were not so keen on putting a spotlight on the boots that kicked doors in and dragged innocent men and women out of their homes and into concentration camps in the past.
Brendan Behan remarked,
“There is no human situation so miserable that it can be made worse by the presence of a policeman.”
One of the gunmen who attacked the Rock Bar in Armagh in 1976 was wearing police issue boots. He drove away in a police vehicle. He was wearing the same boots when he started to ‘investigate’ the gun attack on the public house.
Journalists who put the boot in, like some policemen, lack balance.
As part of the Vaughan Bequest to the National Gallery of Ireland it was stipulated that the 31 watercolours and drawings of J.M.W. Turner should be exhibited only during the equerry month of January. Something to do with the prevailing light, that sorta thingy.
No such restriction applies to the exhibition of the drawings and quarterings of another English chap called Turner by The Unionist Times. Whose mission statement would appear to be:
-I am the way, the truth and the light.
It has been ever thus since the mid-70s when the Turner called Martyn’s application to become the cartoonist of The Unionist Tymes was successful. It was shortly after this than Perkie encountered another cartoonist who, as it happened, had also applied for the same august (and also the other eleven months) position, unsuccessfully.
On quizzing him if he were disappointed at being given the thumbs down, one received a quizzical look in response;
-At not being signed up by The Unionist Times?
That was the first time one heard TUT being uttered. Not sure if the cartoonist DOLL (for it was he !) actually coined the phrase but he might have. DOLL was the nom de guerre of Flann O’Riain who is in no way to be confused with Flann O Brien who was a darling of the culturally superior TUT-TUTers and as safe as houses when it came to the Leprechaun.
Flann O’Brien, unlike Flann O’Riain, was never likely to spend a spell in chokey for not paying his TV licence as a protest against the lack of Leprechaun on RTE. The irony of this incarceration was somehow lost on the po-faced TUT at the time as Flann O Riain had been the animator of Daithi Lacha, the first children’s cartoon series on RTE. DL was famous for his large striped underpants, his only garb.
Being a Tipperary man and a distant descendant of Eamon an Chnoic , Flann O Riain was as doughty a defender of linguistic rights as he was brilliant as a cartoonist: whoever saw his cartoon, featuring a local wielding an enthusiastic machete, at the time of the bloody secession of East Pakistan is unlikely to forget it:
-Banglechle, Bangladesh.
As it happens, the middle initial of J. M.W.Turner stands for Mallord. Miriam Lord is also as safe as houses when it comes to political matters, hence her seamless transfer from the Dependent House of Commons to…..
the House of Lords.
Out of anti-Shinner cartoons he’s a great churner
The sin-binner from the mainland, Martyn Turner
With equal delirium
The Lady Miriam
Is unlikely to leave the S.F’ers on the back burner.
The same old nonsense, Jude. The Irish Times is only doing what many others have been doing repeatedly for decades without success, its nothing the southern electorate haven’t already been exposed to and don’t already know. As Unionist journalist Alex Kane has often said: “They have thrown everything, including the Kitchen sink, at Sinn Fein and it just doesn’t effect them”.
Think it was Albert Einstein that said: “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”. The media in the south and others like Ruth Dudley Edwards are just doing the same old thing over and over again and expecting success to replace their failures.
Of course I’m sure Sinn Fein would rather the media just played fair and judged them like any other political party, on their manifesto, their policies, etc but I guess there’s a bright side to all the media attention SF gets: there’s no such thing as bad publicity…..
People like Martyn Turner constantly refer to Gerry Adams alleged past actions in order to discourage support for Sinn Fein but it truth it is not Mr Adam’s past that scares them it is the Mr Adam’s future represented by social equality that they really fear!
Yes of course he believes in social equality unless of course you mention his private medical operations and numerous houses outside that of course he believes in social equality.
Care to elaborate Neill?
The “past” is a very odd sort of place …beginning as it does in the moment just before this very one you are presently inhabiting , reading this(hopefully)…if your brain is functioning as it should. All that really matters is that “now” you actually live in because what went “before” is only a memory …a memory sometimes shared, but usually ,as in Norneverland, interpreted to suit your own personal agenda. We all know what a trickster memory is and the results it can produce [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeBzvgewgsc&w=640&h=360%5Dmay be unrecognisable in the moment following this one…..or as Bob would have it ….
Pointis, you’ve hit the proverbial nail on the head…..It’s the future that scares the gombeen, subservient , establishment in the 26…the same future that scares Neill and MT. When all the revelations of Britain’s sordid past are finally exposed ,the complicity of the DUP,UUP ,Fine Gael ,Fianna Fail will be unmasked
I think any normal society should be concerned by the growth of a party like SF but don!t worry their crimes will be revealed as well.
I don’t think many people would share your definition of “normal” Neill…..
SF voters perhaps
Martyn is tough on the IRA which would be fair enough (they are big boys) if he were equally hard on MI5 and loyalist paramilitaries. (they are obviously harder to draw than the Shinners, eyes closer together etc.)I think you are all being a bit hard on Miriam who hilariously satyrises politicians of all shades. She is a national treasure. And I have never met anyone who believes GA was never in the IRA. Do you Jude? – Ah I know, you don’t know.
MI5 and loyalist paramilitaries aren’t standing for election to the Dail.
We know MT, MI5 are just run by the British Government itself. A lot of Loyalists were just gullible cannon fodder whose only desire was to go out and kill a “taig”.
The British govt don’t run mi5/mi6/GCHQ. They in fact run the British govt, no matter who that govt is, be it labour or Tory. A Brit govt answers to the establishment who are strictly undemocratic. Woe betide any prime minister who goes against establishment policy. Camoron alluded to it himself when he told Mrs Finucane that ‘people around here wouldn’t allow him to call an independent inquiry’ into her husbands murder.
What we have in Britain is a dictatorship carefully crafted to look like democracy. Now and again the likes of Corbyn slip through and threaten the stitch up but he has found or will find he’s up against an establishment that is used to getting its own way.
Never a truer word been said Wolf. If Jeremy Corbyn came within a hairs breath of shaking the establishment I suspect the old establishment would be able to trump up some bogus charges against him to take him out of the picture permanently and we all know the press which would run them!
I didn’t know that Martyn Turner was English, and I’d be damned rather than believe he’s related to J M W Turner, the marvellous English artist. Because he can’t draw for toffee.
And the British (rather than West British) papers would probably not pay him peanuts,
nor, even, Wood’s halfpence.
Does MT know that Garret Fitzgerald sat for years on the Fine Gael benches in Seanad
Eireann, without being a member of the party, and when deciding to stand for Dail Eireann asked John A Costello how he might join the Party got the reply “Forty years in politics, Twice Taoiseach, never joinedthe party.”
I think Gerry Adams would make a better Taoiseach than Enda Kenny, Micheal Martin or
Joan Burton. But that’s damning him with faint praise.
It seems that Martyn at the Irish Times is not the only one attempting to sling mud Sinn Fein’s way at the start of the 26 County General Elections. Dearbhail McDonald who hails from Newry and is the Associate Editor and Legal Editor at Independent.ie claims in her opinion piece on the General Election in the Sunday Independent that “Slab Murphy is up for election””in a manner of speaking””.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/dearbhail-mcdonald-a-vote-for-sf-is-a-vote-for-slab-in-all-but-name-34430075.html
And if you don’t believe the whole piece is about tying Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein into an association with Slab Murphy and criminality you need only read the opinion headline “A vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for Slab Murphy in all but name”.
Nobody could accuse Dearbhail of having questionable motives and drawing on “hear say” evidence because she has backed up her piece with meticulous research which she draws on to justify her piece namely “last year’s reports on republican and loyalist paramilitary groups – IRA members themselves believed the army council “oversees both PIRA and Sinn Féin with an overarching strategy” which is up for scrutiny”.
Wait a minute!
Weren’t those reports drawn up by Special Branch and MI5? Weren’t Special Branch and the British Army implicated in the murders of perhaps hundreds of people here through the use of their undercover agents and informers in Loyalist and Republican organisations and denied involvement at the time?
Doesn’t that mean they were dishonest and not to be trusted?
Isn’t “IRA members themselves believed the army council “oversees both PIRA and Sinn Féin with an overarching strategy” which is up for scrutiny” here say?
Now let’s follow Dearbhail’s line of logic.
1. Slab Murphy is to be sanctioned this week in the 26 Counties Special Criminal Court for tax evasion which he was found guilty earlier in the year.
2. Slab Murphy is bad!
3. Gerry Adams said in an interview that Slab Murphy was a “Good Republican” and “many” don’t believe Gerry Adams that he (Gerry) wasn’t a member of the IRA.
4. Slab Murphy = Gerry Adams
5. Gerry Adams is bad!
6. Voting for Mr Adams is a vote for a bad man!
7. Special Branch who were dishonest about their involvement in countless murders throughout the troubles helped compile a report which contained here-say that some IRA members “believed” that the IRA Army council oversees both the PIRA and Sinn Fein.
8. Slab Murphy = Gerry Adams = Sinn Fein
9. Special branch is trustworthy but Sinn Fein is bad!
10. A vote for Sinn Fein is bad!
11. Slab Murphy, Gerry Adams, Mary Lou McDonald, Sinn Fein all the same, all bad!
12. Don’t associate with bad people, don’t vote for Sinn Fein!
I actually thought Jessica that MT would’ve had a bit of common sense compared to Neill but obviously not.
Ah Ryan you accuse MT and myself of having no common sense how do you think you look to MT and myself with your open support of Republican terrorism?
I would give some simple advice to those thinking of criticising Sinn Fein/Gerry Adams on this site : don’t bother. I’ve only been visiting it for a short time, but it has become clear that no word issuing from the mouth of any Sinn Fein representative/spokesperson will ever be subjected to even the most gentle questioning or criticism, they are simply infallible and worthy only of the most slavish devotion. In fact all of the articles, particularly those relating to Saint Gerry, could easily be entered for Private Eye’s famous O.B.M. (Order of the Brown Nose).
Personally, I can’t understand why so many people in the South vote for S. F., I suppose they regard them as some sort of panacea for all their ills, grasping at a straw that hasn’t been grasped at before.. Don’t they ever look North, where S.F. have been in coalition for years and it hasn’t made a blind bit of difference to anyone?
Failte romhat, a chara! In the words of that fine woman Margaret Thatcher, “Everyone should have a Willie”
Are you Gerrys Willy Jude?
What an odd idea, neill. Do you spend much time thinking about Mr Adams’s private parts?
Do you have a dirty mind Jude?
Whose am I comparing it with, neill? Maggie Thatcher’s or yours??
“I would give some simple advice to those thinking of criticising Sinn Fein/Gerry Adams on this site : ”
There are enough people doing that already willie, it is only right there is more focus put on the activities of the british who have yet to be brought to task for their actions. To say they have got away with murder to date is putting it mildly.
Criticism of Gerry Adams while they hide behind national security will be like water running off a ducks back.
Has Gerry Adams been bought to task for his actions?
Lets be honest Jessica the author of this site has never knowingly criticised Gerry.
Well I would if he allowed you to graft me onto an intimate part of him – that was what you were originally suggesting, isn’t it, neill? I’d definitely criticise him for letting you do that.
Jude you have a dirty mind shameless indeed ; )
I think that smiley face just about lets that comment go up. And I’d remind you yet again: you were the one drew attention to Gerry Adams’s private parts.
“Has Gerry Adams been bought to task for his actions?
Lets be honest Jessica the author of this site has never knowingly criticised Gerry.”
Yes, Every single action there was evidence for and considerable efforts to slur where there was none.
The British government on the other hand not only destroys evidence, but as soon as it shows up in inquiries they have initiated and paid for however reluctantly, they fail to act on it time and again, instead locking it away for decades, ridiculous levels of redactions making it useless or a complete refusal to hand over to the courts, PPS or legal teams.
Gerry Adams is not blocking any documented evidence or breaking the law, Britain is.
Britain is the only nation in the history of the world to withhold evidence on grounds of national security in a post conflict society struggling to reconcile its people. Never before has national security being abused so blatantly.
The EU, the US and international nations need to be constantly made aware of what they are doing and they will as the truth inches out. This site is one of the few attempting to do this and should continue. Shame will be on those who did not make any effort to help and who could have done so much more, in particular the southern state parties.