You’d assume that somewhere in the background , papers are already being shuffled in the corridors of power….Yes.. Let’s try that on for size ….”A few bad apples!”.. That has a certain ring to it .It’s a catch-all kind of phrase and covers any number of possibilities and is vague and homely enough to allow us a little movement without actually coming out with the whole unvarnished truth. “Apples” …Yes …..”Bad Apples”…… Someone will ponder…Isn’t that County Armagh supposed to be the “Garden of Ulster”? They grow apples there especially around Loughgall where the Orange Order was founded. Yes the “Armagh Bramley”.The phrase has a certain parochial charm to it too.
I know they don’t put apples into barrels anymore …it’s boxes now isn’t it …or is it all plastic skips now?…”Rotten apples” in barrels has more of a ring to it than rotten apples in boxes, mind. Anyway, most wouldn’t know what a barrel was these days…..but ” A few rotten apples” ….That might do , if it’s repeated often enough to catch the public imagination .You’d never know until you give it a try .
“A few bad apples” is the current phrase de jour in DUP circles. I wonder has it been seeded there by the ministers in Westminster as a stiffened rope starter to get just a little movement on this dreadful “Legacy” issue which is holding back forward movement in Norneverland . Like sailors of old were “started ” up the rigging.Those few “Rotten Apples ” are a reference to “A Few Bad Cops” in the old RUC, who apparently …all on their own …were responsible for all of the chicanery that the British Government got up to by proxy throughout “the Troubles”. The DUP now want to believe this in public too.That ‘s something new for them alright .A fresh wind. It fits their narrative of being the mostly unblemished innocents , the slaughtered lambsblood who didn’t undertand why there was a “Troubles” at all. The good apples.
It took them a long time to believe even that such “Bad Apples” existed at all in their sacred police force. After all , we are not talking about some abstract fictionalised storybook …. This is their very own sons , brothers ,fathers and husbands you are talking about so it is very understandable that the fellow coming back home from work into your living room wasn’t in fact part of some noxious cabal, doing all manner of underhand , unworthy and immoral deeds in your name. It was fine so long as you didn’t say it out loud .
On this the DUP and the British Government are on the same page. They both agree that it would be better not discussed at all, even though many of their own voters and followers have suffered at the hands of these covert machinations .Both have much to lose. Sinn Fein has less to lose in that respect so they are more open to some revelations.
The latest phrases are “Full Disclosure” or “National Security” which are suitably nebulous and unmeaning words to cover ill-thought out notions or non – solutions . Well the truth doesn’t always have a pretty face so no one should be shocked when they see that all the old heroic myths are really just myths. Should that be for the british, republicans , loyalists or unionists, some of this disclosure is bound to hurt.There is much talking around the point and even commentators are showing signs of frustration in that no-one can actually pinpoint what those phrases mean or how they would actually affect anything .Life will still go on with all the damage still done. When victimhood is discussed it is only too easy to see who the victims are .The damage that has been done is inherent in every word they write or in any words that they say.Sometimes it is manifested in a corrosive blind -hatred of all things….fill in your own blanks.Sometimes it is the physical or psychological damage that has the mental health in Norneverland at the top of the damage charts across the globe.It is there in the pills swallowed every morning with the breakfast cup of tea. It is there in the hatred too.
Sinn Fein believes that the British Government ,by inciting “National Security” as their reason for not opening their files is indulging in a cover-up to save the reputation of many in powerful positions..The DUP are glad of this but also need to pretend to themselves that they, themselves , really have nothing to hide. Apparently they have something to hide or at best “forget” , given the talk of “collusion” between the police force, the British Army , the UDR and a swathe of armed groups on all sides and of every description, who between them ,are all responsible for many past deaths….either by word or deed.
There will never be any full disclosure, of course . Everyone surely knows this. .There will never be a full amnesty for everyone involved in all the deaths and the British Government ‘s hope is that everyone involved will eventually forget or die before any such amnesty or disclosure would ever be instigated as some “ancient historical” memory sometime in the very distant future.. the phrase for this is “kicking the can down the road”.Many believe that the British government are doing that very thing.
In the meantime much money will be spent investigating a select high-profile few “Bad Apples” .Already scares are being floated at the high cost of £35 million for the proposed investigation of one single person, the double-agent “Stakeknife”.The public are being asked to wonder if any investigation is worth all that money and what would be the potential cost to us all if many more were to be investigated . There’d be no money left for anything else.
Scapegoats are needed and will be carefully selected eventually. Those few tarnished “apples” will be all that anyone will be allowed to remember. The DUP is already seeding the ground and soon it will be apple-picking time.


Harry
I have never been able to understand why the few “bad apples” are/were never fully rooted out of any organization that really, really wants to uphold its “good” reputation.
Unless . . .
– “bad apples” are the core of the organization
You’re having way too much fun there, ben !
On the money, even if it is depressing reading.
I chatting to some people today about the “bad apples”, notably those that did Derry 44years ago. I had often heard that the Derry Families knew the names of all the soldiers involved in the Massacre. Today I found out how they got the names.
If the Brits don’t agree, which they probably won’t, the Derry method should be used to gather as many of the names of the soldiers involved as possible and then put them out so that trial by media can at least embarrass the murderers involved. Maybe just maybe, the PFC miners at Kew will find some incriminating papers.
great article Harry
Arlene met some family members of the shankill bombing victims and she trotted out the ‘few bad apples’ in the RUC line for which she ‘had the upmost respect’ of course.
You can’t help but feel so sorry for the families of those victims. Most if not all are unionists. All these years they’ve believed the IRA were entirely responsible. Now information comes to light that means, assuming this information is true, the security forces which they probably believed all their lives were fighting the good fight, colluded in their loved ones’ murders.
And it is clear from Arlene’s ‘few bad apples’ comment that the D.U.P will not be pulling out all the stops to find out the truth of the matter for these victims.
On a side note, I thought the ‘few bad apples’ explanation had been replaced by the ‘rogue elements’ explanation. But Arlene returned the much more silly rotten fruit in a barrel explanation this week.
So if it wasn’t a few bad apples the implication is that the entire police was corrupt?
One wonders why or how they were so successful in pursuing loyalist and nationalist terrorists. More successful against the former. Why was so much energy invested in investigating, arresting, charging and prosecuting these thousands of cases if the police was actually trying to assist the very people they were pursuing?
It’s a strange conundrum.
Or maybe it was simply that the vast majority of police weren’t involved in collusion at all?
“One wonders why or how they were so successful in pursuing loyalist and nationalist terrorists. More successful against the former.”
Can I have a link to back that up, please?
Of course, not every Loyalist was involved or knew about collusion. Nor every RUC member. But what you are saying is that because this is the case, collusion must not have happened as it is being reported i.e. it was a deliberate policy by those in control.
Now imagine, MT – how would it have looked if no Loyalists were sought or imprisoned? That would have screamed that collusion was happening – the exact opposite of what those colluding wanted.
“”One wonders why or how they were so successful in pursuing loyalist and nationalist terrorists. More successful against the former.”
Can I have a link to back that up, please?”
You want a link to back up the statement that the police were successful in pursuing nationalist and loyalist terrorists? Sure was the Maze not full of convicted terroriat prisoners? According to Flackes and Elliott, Northern Ireland A Political Directory 1968-1993, there were 15,800 people charged with terrorist offences between July 1972 and 1993.
“Of course, not every Loyalist was involved or knew about collusion. Nor every RUC member.”
Of course. Nor every nationalist.
“But what you are saying is that because this is the case, collusion must not have happened as it is being reported i.e. it was a deliberate policy by those in control.”
But I’m not saying that. I’m challenging the underlying assumption behind the scoffing at the “few bad apples” analogy, i.e. that it wasn’t a few bad apples, but in fact the entire (or large part of) the force.
“Now imagine, MT – how would it have looked if no Loyalists were sought or imprisoned? That would have screamed that collusion was happening – the exact opposite of what those colluding wanted.”
So you’re now saying that the police devoted hundreds of thousands of man hours to the investigation of crimes by loyalists and bringing them to justice (disproportionately so when compared to loyalists) merely as a smokescreen to hide the fact that they were actually acting on behalf of the loyalists?
Inside a tight kind of organisation such as the close- brotherhood we are speaking of…where surely there was the same kind of rampant gossip circulating as goes around in any workplace,..where everyone would have heard just about everything about every little detail ..how would you break down or gauge percentages. Again we could get all nebulous again and ask ourselves what the term “corruption ” actually means and at which point would a colleague actually cross that line into corruption….. or we could also ask at which point does a majority become a “vast majority”. Would that be at 65%, 75% or 85% or whatever ? or do we pluck another one of those “£35 million” figures out of the ether and just make up a number.Again we could ask “how many is a “few” as in “a few bad apples”… A bit of a conundrum all right.
“Inside a tight kind of organisation such as the close- brotherhood we are speaking of…where surely there was the same kind of rampant gossip circulating as goes around in any workplace,..where everyone would have heard just about everything about every little detail ..how would you break down or gauge percentages. ”
I’d break it down into how many were involved in collusion and how many weren’t.
“Again we could get all nebulous again and ask ourselves what the term “corruption ” actually means and at which point would a colleague actually cross that line into corruption….. ”
Let’s use the definition of collusion.
“or we could also ask at which point does a majority become a “vast majority”. Would that be at 65%, 75% or 85% or whatever ? or do we pluck another one of those “£35 million” figures out of the ether and just make up a number.Again we could ask “how many is a “few” as in “a few bad apples”… A bit of a conundrum all right.”
The burden of proof surely lies with those claiming the police were corrupt. How many officers do they believe were involved? What is their evidence? What is the tipping point at which a certain percentage of corrupt officers means the entire force waa corrupt?
The Irish govt/civil service opinion of the RUC was that somewhere between 5% and 10% of those in uniform were in collusion. They also believed that one of the 4 ACCs during the 80s was deeply involved – which is why none of them were ever promoted to CC during the 80s or 90s. Don’t have any links to provide for that, it’s something I heard from a relative who has been in the dept FA for decades.
Jude may be able to verify one of the best kept secrets of the GFA – how a particular junior minister almost managed to torpedo the GFA with a solo run up north without any civil servants.
“The Irish govt/civil service opinion of the RUC was that somewhere between 5% and 10% of those in uniform were in collusion.”
That’s interesting. What’s your source?
If correct, that means 90-95% of the force wasn’t in collusion, which supports the notion of a “few bad apples”.
It makes you wonder what propelled them to change the name of the RUC and redesign it if there was nothing wrong with it in the first place, doesn’t it?
Not really. That was done to allow the Provos something that would let them support the police. A fig leaf to give the impression that it was a new force.
MT,
5% to 10% of an 8.500 strong police force is “a few bad apples”? Only if you are going to follow it up with “spoil the barrel”.
It’s unlikely to be as high as 5-10%, of course, but even if it were, yes it does support the bad apples analogy, i.e. the force as a whole was not corrupt.
MT
gendjinn might be thinking of the intelligence report on the UDR from around 1973 which estimated between 5% and 15% were connected to paramiltary groups. Based on that it is not unreasonable to assume the RUC may have had a similar problem,
That is a lot of officers and indiicative of what a dirty war/conflict we endured.
I don’t know if there is any hard evidence as yet that collusion was systemic throughout either force and I would say if we are talking strictly about collusion rather than sympathies and prejudice then that figure might be right.
As usual people believe what they want to believe.Some will believe collusion was endemic in both organisations from top to bottom, and widespread,while others will believe it was no more than a few bad apples.
Neither seem quite right to me, but we may never know.
“gendjinn might be thinking of the intelligence report on the UDR from around 1973 which estimated between 5% and 15% were connected to paramiltary groups.”
That was inflitration of the UDA by terror groups not collusion by the UDR with terror groups. The report led to a tightening of recruitment and the terrorists were rooted out over the next few years.
“Based on that it is not unreasonable to assume the RUC may have had a similar problem,”
There is no evidence whatsoever of terrorists infiltrating the RUC. Recruitment was much tighter with strict background checks etc.
“That is a lot of officers and indiicative of what a dirty war/conflict we endured.
I don’t know if there is any hard evidence as yet that collusion was systemic throughout either force and I would say if we are talking strictly about collusion rather than sympathies and prejudice then that figure might be right.
As usual people believe what they want to believe.Some will believe collusion was endemic in both organisations from top to bottom, and widespread,while others will believe it was no more than a few bad apples.
Neither seem quite right to me, but we may never know”
There’s no evidence of systemic collusion. Almost all the evidence of collusion relates only to special branch and the handling of informers.
giordanobruno,
I’m speaking to the opinion of the Irish govt/civil service of the RUC as relayed to me by a relative therein.
gendjinn
I stand corrected.
Thanks all for your comments. As an aside, which I forgot to mention ….and in passing reference to PJ s comment, I always wonder when a figure such as “£35 million” is floated ….how can that kind of cash be spent on investigating a single man’s crimes.? Isn’t there one lone investigative genius with the smarts of a Sherlock Holmes who could root out the information at a more spendthrift cost? What investigative team of journalists makes that kind of bread in any case ? As PJ implies above …if the dogs on the street know already , how hard can it be hammering out the details and how long can that possibly take?
The fiscal spacemen are at work. A figure of £35 million has been plucked, it seems out of thin air. Perhaps is time to sow a few seeds of doubt as clonally-propagated empires are highly susceptible to disease.
Shall we try to get some perspective into this…..can you put a price on justice?…if perfidious Albion, for once ,would just introduce a modicum of truth into the equation then it would cost nothing….zero….open your books, let us peruse your deeds of infamy….how much does it cost to keep your servants of Satan here? your MI5, MI6 , your paid informers ,your resettlement grants etc etc….what does it cost to bomb the ” Middle East “,the cradle of civilization , back to the stone age ? Iraq and Afghanistan,£34bn with potentially £30bn on top of that to care for the conflicts’ veterans, £1.25 billion on bombs alone in Libya ……Syria ,well that’s anyone’s guess
Speaking of justice, I see a British court(‘the best judicial system in the world’) has refused to lift restrictions on the media from reporting the details of secret terror trial of an alleged radical Muslim. One wonders why the secrecy. Could it be that mi6 were actually encouraging their agents to carry out acts of terror on behalf of ISIS? Alas the defenders of the realm will contest that ‘there is no evidence of systematic collusion with state agencies and terror groups’ despite the secrecy and censorship enforced. Btw, is anyone not perturbed that a so called democracy holds secret trials?