Sometimes you get shocked into a realization of how old you are by something unexpected. That happened for me last Friday when I read an editorial in the Belfast Telegraph, about which more anon. I was shocked because I can remember a time, back in the mist, when the Belfast Telegraph could claim to be a middle-of-the-road organ and nobody would laugh. It did this by pointing to the clear nationalist bias of the Irish News, the clear unionist bias of the News Letter, with the Tele a happily-shared space for right-thinking people.
That was a long time ago, before the Tele build the malodorous stable of columnists it currently employs. But sometimes even columnists aren’t enough. Sometimes readers need to hear the editorial voice from the moral high ground. That happened last Friday, when the Editor hammered out an editorial under the heading “Republic’s 1916 jersey a mistake”. It seems the team called the Republic of Ireland will be wearing a shirt with ‘Eire – Ireland’ on it, and beneath that a ‘1916/2016’ insignia.
The Tele takes umbrage at this. OK, the RoI team will be wearing this only during friendly games, since UEFA bars all political or religious symbols on jerseys in competitions. But flaunting reminders of 1916 will be poking a stick at Protestants, the Tele believes, since back in the day there was “a feeling among many Protestants that the new State was a cold house for them, leading to them seeking a new life north of the border”. It’s certainly true that a lot of Protestant unionists found the notion of the twenty-six counties governing themselves so distasteful, they moved to an area where they’d still be ruled by Britain. Quite a number stayed, however, and happily play an important part in the business, social and political life of the south.
Inevitably, the Tele attempts to support its case by fishing up James McClean. According to the paper, he “refused to wear a poppy on his shirt, because he felt it had become a political symbol. Will he take the same attitude towards these new shirts if he is selected to play in the two friendly games?”
I doubt it, Ms. Editor. You see, McClean chose not to wear the poppy, not because the poppy was a political symbol, which it is. He chose not to wear it because it’s a political symbol linked to the armed forces which mowed down fourteen of his fellow-townsmen in 1972. In contrast, the commemoration of the Easter Rising is of an event in which a small group of men took on the might of the British Empire, and gave their lives so that succeeding generations might experience freedom. The first act – Bloody Sunday – was vile and cowardly, deliberately killing unarmed, innocent people. The second confronted a military force infinitely more powerful than them, and happily faced the firing squad for what they had done.
The Tele editorial raises just two questions: first, does the paper believe the guff it prints? If so, should people so simple-minded be allowed to run a newspaper? If they don’t believe their own guff, they are plumbing new media depths in a country where, north and south, the standard isn’t particularly high. If nationalists and republicans can put up with 2,000+ marches annually in celebration of the defeat of Catholicism, shouldn’t unionists be able to continue breathing after two friendly games in which Irish players wear shirts remembering the sacrifice made for freedom one hundred years ago?
“…the sacrifice made for freedom one hundred years ago?”
On 26 may 1923, Constance Mark ievicz, wrote about the sacrifice that was the life of Tom Clarke.
“he suffered for 16 years in English convict prisons.Starved on the miserable pittance of bad food that you get doled out to you in such places, and put to work far too severe for a young and fragile boy, he suffered terribly. Working in the prison foundry, he was burnt time after time by the heavy molten bars, too heavy for him to handle, slipping against his legs. With all the cruelty and all the misery that was heaped on him during those 16 long years, his character but grew stronger, his love for Ireland deeper, and, on his release, there was no looking for his own welfare, no making capital out of his own sufferings, no exploiting or living on the movement, but quietly and earnestly he took up the work to which, in the enthusiasm of his wonderful youth, he had pledged himself.”
In the north of Ireland, the battle lines are drawn in relation to the role of First Minister. In Dail Éireann, some seeking Dáil reform, first want to be Taoiseach and to appoint the Ceann Comhairle. Perhaps the last words should go to Constance Markevicz and her opinion of the Home Rule Party.
“…The fight “on the floor of the House” was far safer, and also very remunerative.”
Jude
I don’t think it’s “Mr Editor” any more in the Belfast Telegraph.I believe the current Editor is Gail Walker.
Yes, thanks, Argie- I’d forgotten that. Good to have you and others to keep me on the straight and factual…
I thought that was why I read Ms Editor!
https://www.oneills.com/gift-ideas/popular/1916-commemoration-jersey.html
Think of the fit they are going to have over this one as well if you click the link above (safe, honestly). The cheek of them. That GAA. Always insulting the other side
I bought mine when I was up at O’Neills in the Kennedy Centre on Saturday TL. Beautiful shirt, my brothers seen it and are going to get themselves one too. Actually thinking of getting the blue one too.
Well apparently it only happened in Dublin considering we rarely hear about mobilisation throughout the country. They are nice though
I don’t remember any angst from that rag over the 1912 celebrations of the formation of the UVF. I doubt if they will be in any worried by 2021 centenary celebration of the annexing of the 6 counties with the murder of many nationalists linked to it. But hey, one man’s celebrations is stamping on the graves of another’s.
As for the tele, I stopped buying a long, long time ago. Andre’s is much better.
Do the Northern Irish football team wear shirts celebrating the UVF? I missed that.
I don’t think many would oppose the NI football team wearing an NI shirt commemorating 1912, BYC.
Its important to remember this ROI 1916 commemorative shirt isn’t available to buy, its simply being worn by the players because the friendly matches fall on or very close to the centenary of the 1916 Easter Rising. Its not commemorating the PIRA or the INLA.
Don’t confuse this shirt with the O’Neill’s commemorative 1916 Easter Rising shirt, which is available to buy.
Are the FAI marketing the shirts?
It would be a nice idea.
And a reminder that many of
the 1916 “Rebels” were good
Soccer men.
If the IRFU or even the GAA
followed suit it would be wonderful.
However, I am unsure that this is official GAA, sorry for any confusion
Being owned by Independent News and Media ( Denis ,the menace , O’Brien ),did you really expect journalism or just the usual vulgar and imaginary rantings of 3rd rate hacks. Like the Indo etc ,the Telegraph is haemorrhaging sales like a colander and hopefully its demise is imminent.
Jude, it merely reflects the tedious sense of entitlement and grievance that has so defined political unionism.
It all stems from the legacy of the Protestant Ascendancy Freddie. Hence why Equality, Fairness and Balance is opposed by most Unionist politicians. Fear tactics and attacking “them’uns” is what gets Unionist politicians votes. Quite pathetic really.
Who I feel sorry for the most is the Unionists who want progressive politics. Such Unionists inevitably face the ever dreaded accusation of being a “Lundy” or a “Rotten Prod”.
The worst Roy Foster – ‘revisionist’ historian can come up with in regard to ;De Valera’s ‘Éire’ is “almost oppressive tolerance” for religious minorities. Taigs in NornIrl could have been doing with a dose of ‘oppressive tolerance’. What they got was straightforward intolerance, and lots of it.
The topic of political emblems being used as a mixer (by insider fixers) with the potent drink of sport, Esteemed Blogmeister, is indubitably a controversial one.
As it happens, it was on what one loosely calls one’s mind over the weekend, though in a different context. Specifically, that caged octagon in Las Vegas . Where the mystical McGregor got his notorious nose well and truly rubbed in the canvas.
Now the MM Artiste is universally known (even on 21st Century Fox) for wrapping himself in the green, white and orange flag as he enters the gladiatorial arena, either at the weigh in or on the way in to the Cage. Though, judging from photographs, it was his Old Testament beard rather than the flag which as often as snot, oops, not supplied the mandatory orange.
Yeller being the preferred tint of many of the flag-bedecked bints and fellers among his followers.
Old Testament orange beards mix better with New, blue-inky Tatoos.
-We wuz robbed ! sez McGregor , not.
-We wuz conned! , sez Conor , not.
-Yis ! A Roy is out of the question, sez Sweaty Betty, not.
But, was it really this flagrant ode to colour-decoding in the mannerly waving of the banners and , erm, bunting by the low-key and long-distance fans which contributed to the barefooted defeat of their Gladiator sans Glad rags ? Or, was it more a matter of sound rather than sight that was most instrumental in having the sh/te pounded out of their hirsute hero?
Pray ponder the following ominous portent..
According to reliable reports the Boy McGregor, resplendent in his tastefully tailored budgie smuggler (a term coined, oddly enough, Downunder) was serenaded into the caged octagon by a full court press recording of ‘The Foggy Dew’.
As rendered in the mystical mezzo-caterwaul of Sinead O’Connor, sheself. A restrained recording for which she obviously had her legendary caged rage thoughtfully chauffeur-parked outside the studio.
The only lacuna in the blanket coverage by the Big Kahuna media was: which ‘Which Foggy Dew?’.
Ay, in the immortal phrase of The Great Shakes, ‘there’s the rub’. Which phrase is applicable to all hamlets, from Ballydehob to Tumbleweed Knob, including even Las Vegas.
Now the consensus has it (short for Consensus McGregor) that it was the Irish rebel ballad known as TFD. But,was it that version?
Ponder some more, le do thoil / if you will:
-No pipe did hum, no battle drum did sound its loud tattoo (!)
But the Angelus Bell oe’r the Liffey swell rang out in the foggy dew.
Hmmm.
Difficult somehow to imagine the Angelus Bell sounding in the cupid’s arrow mouth of Bishop Sinead, titular head of bald-pated banshees, the wide world over. The less than swell bell in q. reminding one that these lyrics of a traditional tune collected by Edward Bunting in the 19th century were crafted by (gulp) a mere RC cleric, Canon Charles O’Neill, of Kilcoo, up in Down.
On mature relection, The Perkin’s inner folkie is tending towards the alternative versh of TFD, ye olde Englishe one;
-He wept,he cried, he tore his hair,
Ah, me, what could I do?
For all night long, I took him in my arms,
Just to keep him from the foggy, foggy dew’.
Granted, the Croatian band, Belfast Food, recorded the Bunting/ O’Neill song on their album, Live in Rijeka.
But then, loike, what would they know about clorical oppression in Dortland, loike?
I often wonder if they did not have James McClean to rattle on about the Tele would have nothing to print.
Fortunately the paper the self proclaimed “national” newspaper of the North of Ireland is in terminal decline.
By the way “Mr Editor” is one Gail Walker a former columnist (as in a person who never wrote anything of the slightest originality or interest) with the Tele.
But she had a stellar apprenticeship in the esteemed Lurgan Mail.
Brilliant Commentary, GRMA. So hypocritical of the BT to complain about this. The very fact the BT can’t (or won’T) see the real reason Mr McClean won’t wear the poppy speaks volumes.
I saw the headline in the paper but to be honest I couldn`t be bothered reading the article, no point really. The Belfast Telegraph is and always has been a Unionist propaganda rag, I can see anti Nationalist/Catholic bias every day without having to fork out good money to buy that N so called newspaper.It`s columnists and writers are a who`s who of anti Sinn Féin people from the left (Eamonn McCann) to the far right (Nelson Red Sky) nothing to read here, move along.I can survive nicely without it. Mind you, it`s Twelfth Special issue has some lovely photos of elderly Orange men eating ice cream with youngsters.
Could that possibly be “eating youngsters with ice cream” ?
I’m not sure if Eamon Mc Cann can so easily be passed off as one of the “anti Sinn Fein ” brigade.I would have thought that he’s very much his own man and is quite capable of giving all parties a belt of the crozier!Is Sinn Fein meant to be above criticism?Reading most of the posters on this blog site ,you would certainly get that impression.If memory serves me right,did Jude not once tell us that Eamon was a contemporary of his at St Columbs in Derry and he seemed to have a good word on him.
I certainly have never made a secret that Eamonn McCann was a contemporary of mine in St Colditz – in fact he was a class-mate. Not sure what relevance that has. He’s a man I respect as well being a highly intelligent person and an excellent writer. I don’t agree with him on everything but he does provoke thought. You can’t ask much more than that.
That last sentence can be read a couple of ways…..
A bit of shameless marketing by the FAI, I think. (And to think that people call the IFA sectarian !).
What a strange comparison to draw between Bloody Sunday and the Easter Rising! Especially when one considers that the actions of the Irish Volunteers resulted in the death of more Irish civilians than BS; even a high proportion of the police and military killed during the rising were Irishmen in British uniform. Come to think of it, the Provisional IRA killed far more Irish civilians (of any persuasion) than the British army ever did over the course of the troubles….
“Come to think of it, the Provisional IRA killed far more Irish civilians (of any persuasion) than the British army ever did over the course of the troubles….”
You obviously haven’t heard of collusion Joe (or maybe the blind Unionist eye is being turned?). Villiers said the British state was involved in only, “only”, 10% of the killings here, roughly 300 killings, if my figures are correct. The vast majority of these were Catholic civilians, many of them women and children. Massively imbalanced, given 60% of the population was Protestant and Unionist paramilitaries were just as active as the IRA.
Yet there’s tons of evidence to prove the British state basically ran the Unionist paramilitaries. Like the investigation done in 2003 where 300 UDA men were questioned and of those 300 men 297 were found to be registered British agents working for the state. Yes 297, literally 99% were working for the state. The Unionist paramilitaries themselves said that 85% of all the “intelligence” they received was from the RUC/UDR/British state. That alone defeated the Unionist “A few bad apples” theory which Unionist politicians like to refer to when collusion is brought up. I could go on.
So, you see, the British state/Army was involved in FAR more killings of Irish civilians than the IRA ever was. (Not to mention a big chunk of civilians killed by the IRA were informers or were killed accidently).
Just two points, JB.
1. “A bit of shameless marketing by the FAI, I think. (And to think that people call the IFA sectarian !).”
Your inference here is that the Rising was sectarian. Why else mention it? Could you point out your reasons?
2. “Especially when one considers that the actions of the Irish Volunteers resulted in the death of more Irish civilians than BS…”
Nice bit of jiggery-pokery. Those Irish civilians were, in the main, killed by British shelling. That, JB, is the fault of the British.
That.paper.is.Rubbish.jude
Y.u.p.
I think, like Nelson, your forensic telescope is turned to your blind eye when it comes to IRA killings. (“accidents”….”informers”…..sure they were either asking for it, or they were collateral damage….the provos could never be seen as a murderous criminal gang could they???)
Well we were talking about civilians Joe, you claimed the IRA killed more civilians than the British Army, that’s simply not true.
If a civilian willingly becomes an informer for the British state then they are no longer a civilian, even the state would acknowledge that. They put themselves and their families at risk because they are involving themselves in a conflict and taking the side of one over the other. Of course the IRA also had its spies. I remember one story of an IRA member, a woman, who got information from an RUC man. The RUC man allowed himself to become basically a spy for the IRA because he was deeply in love with the IRA woman. She played him like a flute with false, rosy promises of marriage, children, etc.
Take the case of Jean McConville. Jean McConville was accused repeatedly of being a spy or a “tout” for the British Army. The first time she was confronted by IRA members, outside Bingo, she was warned to stop and she was physically assaulted. The only reason she wasn’t killed there and then (as would have happened to any other person) was because she was a mother of 10.
Now of course most say Jean McConville wasn’t a tout but I’ve heard from numerous people, people who were directly involved in the Troubles (but not the McConville case) that say Jean McConville definitely was working for the British Army. Apparently the IRA even found a British Army radio in her house, in the Kitchen. Most people living in the area certainly believed she was a tout too.
Does that justify what happened to Jean? No, in no way whatsoever. Many people I spoke to said she should’ve been put out of the country simply for the sake of her kids, while the usual penalty for informing/touting was death, which jean got.
The woman who was accused of ordering Jeans death lived up the street from my house for years. I didn’t know her history in the IRA until only a few years before she died. She died back in 2012-13 of old age but the newspaper article (by the Sunday World, I believe) was printed only 1 or 2 years ago.
But the point I’m making Joe is if, IF, Jean was a tout (I’ll keep my opinion to myself when it comes to that question), then that means she was no longer a civilian. Again it doesn’t justify what happened to her but still, it means she wasn’t a civilian. Therefore her killing by the IRA wasn’t a civilian killing.
Ryan
Those found by the IRA kangaroo courts to have been guilty of rape or child abuse were relocated,(unless they were well connected that is). That is a matter of record.
Why could someone like Jean McConville not have been relocated,instead of being tortured killed and buried in a bog, by the brave men of the IRA?
“Why could someone like Jean McConville not have been relocated,instead of being tortured killed and buried in a bog, by the brave men of the IRA?”
I believe that very question is being investigated in the stakeknife enquiry gio, as her killing was one of around 40 ordered by a british agent.
jessica
That is possible.
I have heard from numerous people that Gerry Adams ordered her killing, though of course I don’t know for sure.
Skip the’for sure’ bit, gio. You don’t know at all.
“That is possible.
I have heard from numerous people that Gerry Adams ordered her killing, though of course I don’t know for sure.”
And who would you find more credible, the people claiming Gerry Adams was responsible who are most likely against everything he is doing, or the police ombudsman who has linked the killing to a state agent?
How can you expect anyone to take you seriously, when you are prepared to take any word, the media, a google search result, some unnamed “people” you have spoken to, over the person charged with investigating the police enquiries?
When are you going to start showing you can be objective?
How are you going to retract all of your unverified attacks on the people doing the most in the interests of peace, when eventually evidence is presented that will put beyond doubt the dirty tactics used by the british state?
Like it or not, the defences against it coming out are eroding.
Just don’t forget what you have said already when it does.
You can reflect then on who the better people are. Personally, I put more trust in those showing forgiveness, tolerance and pursuing what is best for people over those who claim justice trumps all and stick to a one sided narrative while expecting everyone else to be objective.
I don’t like the look of the world you represent, it doesn’t look much different to the one we have just left. I do like the look of the new society of tolerance, respect and equality that republicans are presenting and making happen.
Jude
I used the same form of words as Ryan referring to Jean McConville as that seemed to be fine.
“Those found by the IRA kangaroo courts to have been guilty of rape or child abuse were relocated,(unless they were well connected that is). That is a matter of record.
Why could someone like Jean McConville not have been relocated,instead of being tortured killed and buried in a bog, by the brave men of the IRA?”
You will be delighted to see soldier B got off scott free for murdering a teenager in Derry gio.
Thanks to people like you and your unionist buddies, British agents who were responsible for the deaths of people like Jean McConville can have their testimony protected under the guise of national security, British soldiers who murdered men women and children can rest assured their amnesty is quite secure.
You wouldn’t want the truth coming out would you? I hope you never forget your mealy mouthed words when the truth does eventually come out.
But in the mean time, lets also not forget the brave women of the IRA.
Better people than you, any day of the week I would say.
jessica
I have never killed anyone for any cause. I have never tortured anyone,kneecapped anyone or threatened anyone.
I don’t even eat meat.
How can you say with certainty they are better than me?
As For soldier B why would I be delighted to see anyone get off with anything.
He was innocent until proven guilty by the way,but I would certainly like to have seen a prosecution go ahead.
Your logic is weak and you are once again resorting to ad hominem attacks, (accusing me of complicity in something or other),which I expect will be tolerated.
“I have never killed anyone for any cause. I have never tortured anyone,kneecapped anyone or threatened anyone.
I don’t even eat meat.
How can you say with certainty they are better than me?”
99% of republicans can say the same, though to hear your words you would think differently. Why not just call all republicans terrorists, it is about objective as you come across anyway?
“As For soldier B why would I be delighted to see anyone get off with anything.
He was innocent until proven guilty by the way”
That’s right, the british army were innocent combatants and killing for king and country which is not a crime, especially when killing paddies, only irish republican actions in the conflict were crimes. Isn’t that right gio?
jessica
Any individual is innocent until proven guilty,whether Republican or British soldier or whatever.
Why are you suggesting I am calling all republicans terrorists. Utter rubbish. We were talking about the PIRA, who I not consider to be genuine republicans.
Joe
If you had been paying attention you would know the PIRA spent most of the 70s helping little old ladies (Catholic ones anyway) across the road..
They were really just a kind of neighbourhood watch scheme, only with balaclavas.
“If you had been paying attention you would know the PIRA spent most of the 70s helping little old ladies (Catholic ones anyway) across the road..
They were really just a kind of neighbourhood watch scheme, only with balaclavas.”
How terribly brave of you gio.
The PIRAs first action was having to repel a loyalist gang assaulting the totally surrounded and outnumbered short strand as the british army and police stood by and watched. Plenty of little old ladies did indeed appreciate the brave men who defended them.
I wonder would you be so mocking had one such little old lady been your mother or grandmother who was having bullets come through their window?
It is reactions like yours that make it clear that we need memorials to the PIRA and there will be in the future here. You can be certain of it.
That we need more than ever need a peace museum to present the truth of what happened in the conflict here.
Do you believe the truth should be told gio? I mean the real truth, peoples stories that have been verified as accurate.
Or just covered up, forgotten and replaced with such a pathetic and insulting comments like the one you just made?
Yes, well done gio, you clearly know what you are talking about and have so much to offer. Keep up the good work.
Don’t follow you Gio. You’d be better expressing your opinion than resorting to sarcasm. Sure didn’t you know the British came over here to help the Irish. Kind like a charity organisation operating through a murder machine. (see what I mean, doesn’t strengthen an argument)
Emmet
Yes you are right, sarcasm is not helpful. Sorry about that.
Feel free to point that out to the many commenters using it on a daily basis here!
My opinion is that trying to diminish the damage done by the PIRA campaign, both in terms of lives lost or ruined, and in setting back the cause of a United Ireland, probably by decades, is simply trying to rewrite history.
I appreciate that some see them in a heroic light but lets try and view them objectively at least.
It is frustrating to read this kind of revisionism at times hence the sarcasm.
Yes the Brits yes the loyalists yes the Unionists all have dirty hands too, before jessica jumps in!
None of that excuses what the PIRA did and I have nothing but contempt for them.
Hope that is a bit clearer.
Gio, just a thought, if the troubles had never happened and unionists had maintained their status quo of discrimination, would the cause of a United ireland have been furthered? Would it have been further away? I suspect so because listening/reading from what older folk said/wrote there wasn’t a particular push for Irish unification from the nationalist community. In fact I know of several people on my own town who readily joined the Brit army etc in the 60’s and very early 70’s. Were these people accepting the status quo perhaps?
In my humble opinion, in spite of all the violent actions the IRA carried out, by their very being they successfully managed to put the brakes on folk who would’ve readily assimilated themselves into the gerrymandered n.ireland state and forgot about unification. They successfully sowed the seed of Irish republicanism into the minds of people who perhaps otherwise would have never had an idea of their country’s history(which is the plan of the colonialist). Into the minds of folk who maybe perhaps didn’t come from a traditional republican clan. They successfully radicalised and politicised folk. Give credit where credit is due Gio for without the IRA’s existence all those years ago a lot more people could have been wasting their lives overseas fighting for sweaty Betty and country. Or perhaps you are one of those mighty fine folk who believe fighting for queen and country would have furthered Irish unification? Lol.
You will no doubt claim the IRA pushed Irish unity further away but as I have alluded to above, it certainly wasn’t the top of many people’s agenda pre1968. One things for sure its the top of a lot more people’s agenda these days.
“Yes the Brits yes the loyalists yes the Unionists all have dirty hands too, before jessica jumps in!
None of that excuses what the PIRA did and I have nothing but contempt for them.”
I have no problem with that gio.
What I do have a problem with, is why the brits, loyalists and unionists with dirty hands receive little or no contempt from anyone.
By the way, I have no contempt for any loyalist or unionist.
I do have contempt for the british state for bringing conflict to Ireland.
“My opinion is that trying to diminish the damage done by the PIRA campaign, both in terms of lives lost or ruined, and in setting back the cause of a United Ireland, probably by decades, is simply trying to rewrite history.”
I respect your opinion, but I do not share it.
Had it not been for the PIRA, tens of thousands of catholic households would have been driven out of the north. We would be in a totally different circumstance, the north could be totally overrun by unionism and British triumphalism. Had that happened, I believe there would have been a civil war between both parts of this island which would have been shorter but a lot more bloody.
The truth is, neither of us can predict what would have happened had things worked out differently. It could have been better for all, it could have been much worse.
Why do you feel your opinion is worth more than mine?
Gio, lets give it a go and try to talk about this objectively.
“My opinion is that trying to diminish the damage done by the PIRA campaign, both in terms of lives lost or ruined, and in setting back the cause of a United Ireland, probably by decades, is simply trying to rewrite history.”
First of all, in my opinion, the term PIRA campaign is brit propaganda.
When you use that term, you have already pigeon holed yourself and made it perfectly clear what your agenda is and we are no longer talking objectively.
You cannot have it both ways.
Many people believe the conflict known as the troubles was a very dirty conflict in which britain engaged in fully, and unfortunately are still very actively engaged in, they are still recruiting agents and still directing loyalist and dissident group activity through these agents.
Second, it terms of this damage you say was done that will set back the cause of a United Ireland and is simply trying to rewrite history.
I never understood where you were coming from when you say you are a republican, lite or not.
Are you trying to say that you would like to see a united Ireland but that the best way to achieve this is by putting all of the blame on the PIRA, Sinn Fein and republicans and sucking up to unionists to convince them that we can be trusted not to do to them what they did to us?
And that those who experienced the troubles differently, who saw unionist and british aggression first hand, who have experienced the protestant discrimination of cartholics, who have been abused by both police and army. That by not allowing this one sided vilification are in some way setting back the cause of a united ireland by decades.
Personally, I do not believe that for a nano second. It does not reflect the opinions I see throughout this island.
And even if it did, I would not buy into it.
The vilification and nastiness in the media is not the type of Ireland I want to live in anyway. I would not want a united Ireland if that was what it was going to look like.
Irish unification is not about what the PIRA did, it is not about Sinn Fein, it is much bigger than that. It is about this country achieving full independence for the first time in its modern history and is the desire of many tens of millions of Irish people around this planet. Many of which are high up in the US, UK and many other powerful nations.
I would rather put my trust that the Irish people throughout the planet will make sure that what is best for Ireland happen and what that will be will be.
It is not about trickery or appeasement or persuasion. I want the people in every part of this island to have the best quality of life possible.
That can only be achieved through politics, through an all island movement working at a constituent level to help the people on the ground and to make their lives better, bringing all parts of the country closer together and building a strong economy and social state with equality and fair treatment for all.
Unionists will oppose unification even if it is clear it would be in their best interests.
Those that in the future find it is not as bad as they imagined and that business opportunities as a result make their lives better, they will no longer be unionists. They will still have their history and tradition which no one would ever try to take from them.
But that is the only way it is going to happen.
Those who refuse to join in will be allowed to protest and do what they need to, just like the flag protestors in belfast.
Leave them to it I say.
I have every confidence even an oppressive orchestrated media vilification and black propaganda will not make a difference. Sinn Fein achieved transfers and are now the first all island contender to lead the Dail since they formed it. I doubt the second will be too much longer in coming forward.
In the next campaign the media will not be able to repeat the intensity as the people simply did not buy it as it did not match what they saw at a constituent leave on the ground.
The only way to beat black propaganda is to remain totally visible on the ground at all times and to be open and transparent.
Becoming a whipping boy would have the opposite effect.
I doubt any other party could sustain the pressure that Sinn Fein just experienced and still manage to grow.
So you see, it doesn’t matter what you or I say on a blog or anywhere else gio.
The people will decide based on what is in their gut and who they see have changed for the better.
Just don’t expect everyone to just cave in and buy into the vilification project.
Let unionists believe that they need to be persuaded for Irish unity to happen if it makes them happy.
I don’t give a shit about them, they did nothing for Ireland and if they don’t want to reconcile with the rest of the country they can piss off to britain any time them want.
wolfe tone
Whether or not we would have been closer to a UI without the PIRA is just a matter of opinion now. The modest gains we have made,0- where it will happen when a majority of people want it, hardly seem worth all we went through.
One thing for sure though is a lot Irish men women and children who are dead would still be alive.
“Whether or not we would have been closer to a UI without the PIRA is just a matter of opinion now. The modest gains we have made,0- where it will happen when a majority of people want it, hardly seem worth all we went through.
One thing for sure though is a lot Irish men women and children who are dead would still be alive.”
The PIRA did not come into existence to create a united Ireland gio.
The PIRA came about because f the failure of the IRA who were slated as I Ran Away from our own communities remember, and the southern Irish state to do anything to prevent the attacks from the unionist state forces other than set up field hospitals and wait for the bodies to come in.
The PIRA were more successful in conflict than anyone could have ever predicted and the bodies that were expected never materialised because the nationalist community were prepared and more able to fight back than could have been expected.
Many unionists like to put forward the idea that conflict was a PIRA terror campaign to bring about a united Ireland but that is simply not the case.
As the conflict went on, the nationalist / republican community got sick of british rule and now there is a growing majority in support of unification. Even people like your self who is a self confessed PIRA hater sound like you want unification.
The PIRA didn’t persuade you to think like that.
People here are war weary and while the same republicans you claim wanted to force everyone into a united Ireland are now content to leave as is and work on building a better economy, a better society and to become a political force to make changes for everyone’s benefit throughout this island, we have at the same time, a negative and bitter campaign of vilification, a one sided approach to justice for victims and constant blame being aimed at people doing positive work in their communities.
I understand it completely but the majority of people want an end to all of the name calling and politics of hate and will choose those who can be reasonable.
No one is listening to the blame gamers. The southern electorate did not refuse their transfers to Sinn Fein after months of intense negative bias and vilification. In fact it hurt the establishment more in my opinion.
What makes you think it will be any different in the future?
You are in a shrinking minority gio.
The IRA never killed anyone just because they were a Catholic, which in the cess pool that was the north must count for something. Speaking as a Catholic of course.
Another Jude
Very restrained of them!
“If nationalists and republicans can put up with 2,000+ marches annually in celebration of the defeat of Catholicism”
I think its actually 4000 marches annually Jude, I got that figure from Republican commentator Chris Donnelly who stated Orange/Loyal parades have doubled since the year 2000. And of course a small percentage of these parades demand to parade by Catholic chapels and Catholic housing estates (or actually through Catholic estates such as at Drumcree).
I read the article in the Belfast Telegraph. I certainly don’t buy the rag, I even feel guilty giving their website “hits”. I don’t know if this is true (but I suppose the proof is in the pudding) but I heard that many of the people who work at the BT are in the Orange Order or have relatives in it, something I don’t particularly find hard to believe given its content.
James McClean has made clear his stance. He didn’t say he opposes political symbols on shirts, he said he opposes wearing a shirt with a poppy on it given the murderous activities of the British Army here. I’m sure if James was playing for, say, a French football team and the French had a symbol which is the equivalence of the poppy honouring French soldiers then he wouldn’t have an issue wearing it on his shirt.
I suppose it was inevitable that some Unionists would come out to be deliberately offended by this 1916 shirt. I don’t know if anyone remembers back in the 2012 Euros when Italy played Ireland in the tournament itself, the ROI players all wore black armbands in memory of the Loughisland Massacre victims, 6 Catholic civilians who were watching Ireland play on TV when murdered by UVF men who ran away laughing afterwards. Again collusion is suspected there. Unionists came out and condemned the ROI players wearing the black armbands.
It was the same with the funeral of Thomas Kent, who was executed in 1916. He was given a state funeral in 2015 in the South. But the likes of Tom Elliot and other Unionists felt the need to go out of their way to condemn it, even though the British Ambassador to Ireland was present at the funeral. Unionists again came out to condemn plans in the South to commemorate the 1916 Easter Rising. The UUP and Mike Nesbitt even feel the need to go to Dublin and lay a wreath to the British soldiers who died in it. Not to everyone who died, just the British soldiers. Not to mention the antics of Arlene Foster, who refuses to be a First Minister for everyone and even said the “Easter rebellion was an assault on the United Kingdom and on democracy”. Of course she failed to mention women then in the UK didn’t have the right to vote, the Home Rule bill was repeatedly usurped due to threats of violence from Unionism, particularly Edward Carson, whom Unionism has a statue of up at Stormont. Yes, very democratic Arlene….the British Empire was a huge epitome of democracy all around the world, sure……
There has been absolutely no Unionist reciprocation towards the toleration and respect shown by SF and the SDLP towards Remembrance Day events, the 1912 celebrations in 2012, etc Northern Ireland is an unworkable and failed state, and the backwardness, the need for dominance, supremacy and intolerance of Unionism make it so. Our society is so sick and diseased because of partition.
why do you vote for more of the same.
“why do you vote for more of the same.”
Perhaps you don’t vote billy, because you are quite happy with things the way they are and don’t want change?
what has changed maybe a plastic beg tax,a wild bird act.its been 20yrs now and nothings changed.
Have you asked the Orange Order, Billy?
“what has changed maybe a plastic beg tax,a wild bird act.its been 20yrs now and nothings changed.”
Attitudes are changing billy. Change can only happen after the people change.
Unionism has never been as irrelevant in Ireland as it is today. And in a few years time, it will be less relevant again. In 10 years time we will be taking the piss out of unionists and treating their outdated mind-sets the same way the pathetic flag protestors are laughed at and mocked in belfast every weekend.
There is no rush, change is under way and in the meantime I intend to enjoy the electoral decline of unionism. The first signs of change will be in May, and will accelerate every election thereafter.
Change in Ireland should start in Dublin, our capital city. The only change I am interested in, is 32 county change.
Ryan ,you are so correct….Unionism is a negative cancer…….they cannot tolerate anyone who is not a 16th Century flat-earth creationist…..but this is Ireland and the stranger ,with his diverse views and culture ,is very welcome….by diversity we grow….Sectarian and racist Unionism will get a reality check and it will not be pleasant for them….Britain abhors them,we tolerate them,but patience ,that virtue we had in abundance, is wearing very,very thin.
“Sectarian and racist Unionism will get a reality check and it will not be pleasant for them….Britain abhors them,we tolerate them,but patience ,that virtue we had in abundance, is wearing very,very thin.”
Sad to say it, but I really really liked the sound of that.
I for one am sick to death of them.
I can’t say i’ve ever been a regular reader of the Bel Tel. i suppose its demise is fast approaching in this age of technology anyway. We’ve gotten used to gleaning our information for free anyway, so why would we pay for the privilege of buying a series of one -sided views? I much prefer the immediacy of the cut and thrust of online debate in any case .
I hope, Jude, you’re not suggesting that the BelTel is biased or bigoted.
Because I had it on good authority that some years ago a Catholic applied for a job in the production (composing) department, as he was well qualified.
The department manager, after ascertaining his scholastic CV, showed him a pile of job applications, and explained, ‘after all, we have a Catholic working here’.
To be technical, he was right, as the ‘token Taig’ was from Cavendish Street, in Belfast, but he was the only one out of a department of over 100!
The more things change, . . .
We’ve all heard similar stories Sherdy.
A Catholic is still more likely to be unemployed than a Protestant. There’s more Catholic areas in poverty and in dire need of investment than Protestant. More Catholic children leave school without proper qualifications than Protestant.
I think many people had a hearty laugh a few months back when Loyalist community worker Jim Wilson came on and spoke about poverty in Loyalist areas on the Nolan Radio show (Of course no ones denying there is Loyalist areas in poverty). Stephen Nolan stated the facts that I stated above and poor Jim was stuck in a hole. Jim was nearly losing his temper by the end of the conversation because his perception was proven incorrect. Jim was basically trying to say more Protestants than Catholics were in poverty and that Catholics benefited more from the Good Friday Agreement and Protestants had benefitted very little. The facts prove this to be simply untrue.
The Andersonstown News (whom our esteemed blog master writes for too) has reported over the last few years on the allocation of investment from Invest NI. The amount given to East/South Belfast is massively more than what is allocated to West/North Belfast. Is it a coincidence E/S Belfast is majority Protestant and W/N Belfast is majority Catholic? North and West Belfast is in dire need of investment for decades and this has been neglected by Invest NI.
I only learnt recently a high ranking employee of Invest NI was once in the DUP. Has this had influence on where investment has been allocated? Its not like Unionism can be trusted to be fair and help both communities, that much has been obvious for a very long time…..
Media standards in the North are generally terrible (actually all of Ireland). Look at the people who run the media and it isn’t hard to work out their motivations. Blogs like this are excellent for getting informed opinions. I know after reading a few posts whether I can trust someone’s analysis. Thankfully this blog has lots of informed contributors.
Have I ever mentioned how intelligent and good-looking you are, Emmet??
A friend used to buy the tele solely for the purpose of playing spot the ball. After a couple of years he gave up because in them two years he said he never once seen a prize winner’s address from a perceived catholic area.
“McClean chose not to wear the poppy, not because the poppy was a political symbol, which it is. He chose not to wear it because it’s a political symbol linked to the armed forces which mowed down fourteen of his fellow-townsmen in 1972. In contrast, the commemoration of the Easter Rising is of an event in which a small group of men took on the might of the British Empire, and gave their lives so that succeeding generations might experience freedom. The first act – Bloody Sunday – was vile and cowardly, deliberately killing unarmed, innocent people. The second confronted a military force infinitely more powerful than them, and happily faced the firing squad for what they had done.”
But the 1916 “rising” also involved the killing of innocents, so surely McClean should object to wearing this shirt?